Odd winter handling after DRC update

[jjack]

I recently had the DRC update (as well as new TC, timing belt, and fixed ruptured oil line). The ride is much more harsh than before, and on dry pavement, the rear end now seems to come loose a bit on bumps.

With recent snow in Michigan, I notice the handling feels VERY unstable in mildly slippery conditions. The car feels like it's yawing, as though I may spin-out and end up in the ditch if I don't compensate. Yet, conditions are not all that slippery and I can stop fine. Also, the ESP light is not coming on. The same snows are on as last 2 winters (Dunlop Winter Sport M3). The car never felt unstable the previous two winters I've had it--it was a great winter car.

Something feels very wrong with winter handling since the DRC update. Any thoughts?

[RS6-4dr911]

Did they align the car afterwards? When was the last time it was aligned? Does the car sit level side to side?(both rears at sme level, both fronts, )

[DHall1]

Go out and take a simple test.

Do a bounce test on all 4 corners. Press down and bounce the suspension at each corner. Watch how each corner rebounds to the load.

It should feel and rebound the same at each corner.

Then go out and drive the car over a dip at 30mph. Try to take the dip at a 45 degree angle. Do it from both sides.

Report the results.

[JRS-RS6]

Are the snow tires worn past the soft rubber? Snow tires are a compound type tread. Some good information here: http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=168 and links from there. Also check pressures when tires are cold -- if the shop reset the pressures on warm tires they will be under inflated.

[jjack]

I don't believe the car was aligned after the DRC update. Was that supposed to be part of the service? I have not had it done in the two years I've owned it.

The bounce test was equal on all 4 corners, and the car is level side to side at front and rear.

The snow tires are not overly worn.

When going over a dip or bump, the rear end moves laterally, first one direction then back. I have not yet found a dip I could approach at a 45 degree angle.

Also, when going around a curve or corner and accelerating a little, I notice oversteer.

The problem seems to be worsening. It also feels as though the rear differential is locked. It reminds me of how my wife's old Ford Explorer felt when putting it into "all-wheel drive."

The tires are significantly under-inflated. LF 32, RF 29.5, LR 33.5, RR 30. (cold) I'll try to go out and inflate the tires tomorrow between the Outback and Rose Bowls and report the results.

[SAF]

When going over a dip or bump, the rear end moves laterally, first one direction then back.
Also, when going around a curve or corner and accelerating a little, I notice oversteer.


This sounds like what my car did after its last failure BEFORE they fixed it. I'd have them check to be sure everything is still under pressure.

[DHall1]

You may have a loose mount or control arm.

Just watch out because the symptoms you describe are much more than just 3psi difference in the tires.

I would be looking at the control arms to make sure bolts were in place.

Take it back asap and ask to see the pressure readings on both control valves.




I don't believe the car was aligned after the DRC update. Was that supposed to be part of the service? I have not had it done in the two years I've owned it.

The bounce test was equal on all 4 corners, and the car is level side to side at front and rear.

The snow tires are not overly worn.

When going over a dip or bump, the rear end moves laterally, first one direction then back. I have not yet found a dip I could approach at a 45 degree angle.

Also, when going around a curve or corner and accelerating a little, I notice oversteer.

The problem seems to be worsening. It also feels as though the rear differential is locked. It reminds me of how my wife's old Ford Explorer felt when putting it into "all-wheel drive."

The tires are significantly under-inflated. LF 32, RF 29.5, LR 33.5, RR 30. (cold) I'll try to go out and inflate the tires tomorrow between the Outback and Rose Bowls and report the results.

[jjack]

Problem solved! It was the alignment.

I took it to my tire place, (since they were open), to get it put on the lift to check the mounts and control arms. When that was OK, they offered to check the alignment, and the RR toe was way off (1.04 degree). After they did the alignment, the car drives better than ever.

The paperwork is at my office, so I haven't yet confirmed whether alignment was done at the dealer following the DRC service. I haven't hit anything since getting the car back. I don't see why it would have gone that far out of alignment so soon, (unless maybe my wife drove over a pothole . . . which she denies, of course.)

Incidentally, I may be the only RS6 owner who never had a DRC failure (at least in the 2 years since I bought it CPO 11/07).

Anyway, thanks for all the input, which saved me the 2 1/2 hour drive to Detroit (and gave me back my winter beast).

[hahnmgh63]

What kind of idiots are Audi? What kind of shop would pull suspension pieces apart and re-assemble without an alignment? My car wasn't aligned either (just another excuse to pull the crappy DRC apart, junk it, and do my KW's, Now I'm suspension happy).
What shop would tighten the suspension when the car is in the air? What, just because it doesn't specifically say in the T.O. to load the suspension up and then tighten it? I've known that was standard practice when dealing with rubber bushings for over 25 years. It actually specifically says so for Audi in the Bentley. I think Audi, or at least Audi N.A. has hired some of the worst mechanics out there, mechanics without common sense. Is it corporate dumbing down of their Technicians? They seem to want to do the minimum. They replace thousands of dollars worth of supension parts and don't even put new bushings in 6~7 year old cars when they do the job? What is Audi's problem. When I got my car back last September it handled crappy too. I don't know how out of alignment the suspension was but when I decided to pull and junk the DRC to install my KW's I found they had not even re-connected one of the rear swaybar droplinks. I have brought many friends and family over to the Audi world as I love many of the traits of their cars but their customer service and repair quality is junk in general. There are some good dealers out there, with some good mechanics, but between the crappy dealers & mechanics and Audi corporate, and VAG N.A.'s attitudes, my next car may not be the 4 rings.

[bruce]

I think Audi, or at least Audi N.A. has hired some of the worst mechanics out there, mechanics without common sense. Is it corporate dumbing down of their Technicians? They seem to want to do the minimum.

It's true that the mechanics want to do the minimum. All the jobs are timed and the incentive is for the mechanic to beat the clock, not do the BEST job possible.... I believe that will be standard procedure at every dealer, not only Audi. With car sales in the tank, service is where the money is made and I'm sure they are squeezing from both ends.

I'm not saying it's right, just how it is. As for Jack's problem, that surely should have been fixed....:doh:

[MaxRS6]

It's true that the mechanics want to do the minimum. All the jobs are timed and the incentive is for the mechanic to beat the clock, not do the BEST job possible.... I believe that will be standard procedure at every dealer, not only Audi. With car sales in the tank, service is where the money is made and I'm sure they are squeezing from both ends.

I'm not saying it's right, just how it is. As for Jack's problem, that surely should have been fixed....:doh:

a detriment in the long run. Service techs should be instructed/trained to perform quality work for their clients (do the job right, make recommendations such as let's change this minimal part while we have it open, etc).

A reputation for quality service work leads to referrals and long term customers for a business and its' shareholders- and it is "the right way of doing business". Cutting corners that leads to additional/unecessary futher costs is stealing from the consumer.

My less than .03 worth.

[gregoryindiana]

Problem solved! It was the alignment.

I took it to my tire place, (since they were open), to get it put on the lift to check the mounts and control arms. When that was OK, they offered to check the alignment, and the RR toe was way off (1.04 degree). After they did the alignment, the car drives better than ever.

The paperwork is at my office, so I haven't yet confirmed whether alignment was done at the dealer following the DRC service. I haven't hit anything since getting the car back. I don't see why it would have gone that far out of alignment so soon, (unless maybe my wife drove over a pothole . . . which she denies, of course.)

Incidentally, I may be the only RS6 owner who never had a DRC failure (at least in the 2 years since I bought it CPO 11/07).

Anyway, thanks for all the input, which saved me the 2 1/2 hour drive to Detroit (and gave me back my winter beast).

I read your original post with great interest. I first noticed the same issue on Dec. 19, driving back from Indianapolis on interstate 69. It got more and more slippery, but nothing that quattro and winter tires hadn't handled many times before. Then I noticed a weird feeling in the seat of my pants; like the rear end was coming around ever so slightly. A yawing sensation is the perfect way to describe it. But, when I sawed the wheel or braked heavily, there were no issues with traction. It was very disconcerting, and I have reproduced it a couple times since on trips to out of town basketball games.

I will make an appointment for a 4 wheel alignment tomorrow! I just reviewed the service record from the DRC recall from 10/28; nowhere is there any mention of an alignment being done. I don't see how they could do such a repair without needing an alignment. Does anyone here know if the recall order called for an alignment to be done as part of the service?

Anyway, thianks for the update. You weren't the only one with the identical symptoms.

And incidentally, I also never had a DRC problem before the recall. Only 27k miles though.

[RS6-4dr911]

I asked if it was aligned after the DRC replacement but I'm not so sure it is a requirement. If you are not disassembling parts in a way that changes alignment ( i.e., removing tie rod ends), there may not be a requirement for alignment to be checked, so I really don't know that we can jump Audi's crap for not doing the alignment after a DRC replacement. I mean really, it's a replacement of the shocks. If asked, I would say that generally that operation does not require an alignment. Maybe someone else knows for sure.

Nonetheless, many of the comments above are true in spirit but I really don't know that it's anything unique to Audi. I believe pretty much any shop regardless of marque or franchise, chain or independent, runs the same way. From a business perspective, it's hard to fault them. The business of business is to make money, and I not only would be willing to bet, but have seen first hand over and over again (business consulting experience), that modus operandi like this actually produce better profits than those that spend inordinate amounts of time making sure that every last job is perfect and every last customer is supremely happy.

So don't hate them for what they are (anyone familiar with the fable of the frog and the scorpian crossing the stream?), just understand that's what they are, and go in prepared to teach them what you expect in the way of not just outcome but method as well.

The key to happiness in life is often managing your own expectations. Just my $0.02.

[DHall1]

My wifes E55 developed a fuel leak/smell in the cabin. The car had a recall last year for the same problem. I took the rear seat out to inspect. Yep, fuel leak from the sending unit on the top of the tank.

Call the dealer. (The same dealer we purchased from and we have an ext warranty.) Dumb blonde on the phone "sir we are booked" You dont understand, we have a fuel leak in the cabin of the car. "sir the schedule says...." Listen lady do you want me to take my AMG to another dealer? Do you understand how serious a fuel leak is? click I hang up. Call back again and ask for my service advisor directly. Message. No return call by the next day. Call the svc manager and leave message. Advisor calls in 5 minutes. Advisor understands and I take the car in the same day. He checks avail of all poss parts and gets the car in.

Now, ok I tell him to do a few service items when the car is in....Oil, brake fluid and wiper inserts. He writes it on the intake form.

Tech does a good job getting to the oring for the fuel leak. Does both sides. Finds 800 dollars worth of other ext warranty items. Again, good job to the tech. Wants me to flush the trans the next time in and I said maybe but thanked him. I did let him change the rear diff fluid.

Guess what? After 2 40 mile trips with my wife following me and then taking me up there. Upon pickup....they did not change the oil, flush the brake fluid nor replace the wiper inserts.

:nana: You have got to be kidding me.

Stupid advisor never put it in the computer. Tech never had a chance to do the work. Does anyone have a friggin clue? My god people.

I mean I can overcome the dumb blond intake person. (do you want to guess how much business she drive to other dealers?) I can be nice to the advisor and give all the details to do his/her job. I can be nice to let the dealer do some maint along with the repair.

But to end up with this? I give up.

Yes, Penske Benz is 40 miles away and they had no loaners. My wife had to make an extra trip twice. Idiots.

I changed my own oil and replaced my own wiper inserts.

[hahnmgh63]

When you unbolt the upper strut mounts and have to rebolt them in I can guarantee you that they never get back into the same place again. What if the car had a realignment after years of driving due to old shocks settling and all. That will change the alignment. Since all "New" DRC cars seem to sit higher, especially in the rear, that will change the alignement specs. Audi is doing the job on the cheap, and not doing it right, and in some cases not doing a safe job.

[V8weight]

Getting an alignment out of Audi is harder than stealing leprechaun gold. Over the last year the front cradle has been out of my car 5 times. Every time I ask if they plan on aligning the car after repairs and they always answer that they line up the old washer shadows. Who are they trying to fool? Alignment specs are accurate to one hundredth of a degree and they think lining up the outlines of the cradle bolt washers is good enough. So I usually end up picking up my car and bringing it to an indy shop and having an alignment done after large repairs.

[vangelis]

Getting an alignment out of Audi is harder than stealing leprechaun gold. Over the last year the front cradle has been out of my car 5 times. Every time I ask if they plan on aligning the car after repairs and they always answer that they line up the old washer shadows. Who are they trying to fool? Alignment specs are accurate to one hundredth of a degree and they think lining up the outlines of the cradle bolt washers is good enough. So I usually end up picking up my car and bringing it to an indy shop and having an alignment done after large repairs.

That is true even here, but I insisted to have it done free after DRC recall job. So, Finally they accepted. They told that is cost around 270$USD and job takes around 2-3 hours. :vhmmm:

[gregoryindiana]

I have had the car back from alignment for 4 days now, in pretty slippery weather, since we had a new 10 cm of snowfall, in temps of about -10 C. The difference in the handling is remarkable, with proper alignment I don't feel like the rear end is trying to come around in steady speed driving on an icy surface.

I am goiing to attach the before and after alignment sheet that my shop gave me to illustrate the out of alignment condition that existed after the DRC recall. i personally cannot believe that re-alignment wasn't part of the recall after the parts were replaced.

That is all for now. I am looking at brake rotor and pad replacement in spring; probably going to go to a total brake system replacement. Years ago Nene went with Movit. If I can find a way to get them here, and installed, that is my preferred plan. Also, the control arms replaced and uprated would be nice at the same time.

[MaxRS6]

Congrats on finding your footing!

[StevieG.]

:confused:Greetings from Atlanta area - had the DRC recall done and have had nothing but trouble since. About a week after the install, the right rear sounded like the shock had no fluid in it, really banging around when making right turns. Diagnosis was leaking front left shock. Since then, I am getting suspension noise from both back and the front right, and the situation is deteriorating. Not being overly technical, it feels and sounds like there is not enough fluid in the shocks, or they are not very tightly connected. Very unhappy - any thoughts on this one?

[DHall1]

You better start searching the DRC threads.

They screwed up your car. All the struts and CVs need to be changed.




:confused:Greetings from Atlanta area - had the DRC recall done and have had nothing but trouble since. About a week after the install, the right rear sounded like the shock had no fluid in it, really banging around when making right turns. Diagnosis was leaking front left shock. Since then, I am getting suspension noise from both back and the front right, and the situation is deteriorating. Not being overly technical, it feels and sounds like there is not enough fluid in the shocks, or they are not very tightly connected. Very unhappy - any thoughts on this one?

[JRS-RS6]

Your receipt should have the following:

J4 RECALL
CAUSE: 43A8
40902099 RS6 SHOCK RECALL
143 WAR3
1 4B3-413-031-R SHOCKABSOR
1 4B3-413-032-B SHOCKABSOR
1 4B3-513-031-P GASSHOCKAB
1 4B3-513-032-B GASSHOCKAB
2 4FO-412-137 BOOT
2 4BO-512-137-C BOOT
4 N-101-064-02 NUT
2 N-906-350-01 NUT
2 N-021-198-4 NUT
4 N-013-811-5 WASHER
2 G-052-731-A2 HYDR. OIL

Also a Claim Type and Auth Code for the work. Anything less and I would say the AoA needs to make things right.

copied straight from my service records.