Apikol Intercoolers [Archive] - RS6.com

RS6-4dr911

December 30th, 2009, 03:48

Units arrived today, pretty much right on time. IC's were well packed for protection, included the brackets for the oil coolers and the rivets to attach them. Welds looked good and solid, mech is going to pressure test before installing just to be sure. I'll let you know if I'm able to tell any performance difference based on VAGCOM logs. Mech said the OEM's were leaking like seives so I'm hoping that's the key to my poor performance. Just thought I'd post this for anyone considering these instead of the Wagners which cost considerably more.

(Sure would like to know how some of you get your pic's to display as part of the post rather than as attachments....)

GEN XER

December 30th, 2009, 03:57

MaxRS6

December 30th, 2009, 04:00

Good luck with the install and I hope it resolves the performance issue for you.

V8weight

December 30th, 2009, 04:02

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/attachment-6.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/attachment-5.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/attachment-4.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/attachment-3.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/attachment-3.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/attachment-1.jpg

They look nice, are they any bigger than the oem intercoolers?

MaxRS6

December 30th, 2009, 04:04

Now- that is service

Do you also do windows? :)

V8weight

December 30th, 2009, 04:07

Now- that is service

Do you also do windows? :)
Ha ha, just a pet peeve of of mine. I hate having to open links.

RS6-4dr911

December 30th, 2009, 04:13

Thanks V8. Yes, they are larger than OEM, but not quite as large as the Wagners. OEM's are 203 in^3, Wagners 376 in^3, Apikols are 329in^3. So these are about 2/3 larger than stock. Rouglhly 1.5" wider and 1" thicker. They use factory end caps and weld in larger cores.

V8weight

December 30th, 2009, 04:16

Where did you order these from? This is the first I've heard of the Apikols.

GEN XER

December 30th, 2009, 04:17

That was quick V8, I was considering doing the same. Good Job.

MaxRS6

December 30th, 2009, 04:21

Ha ha, just a pet peeve of of mine. I hate having to open links.

My first car was a 68 Chevelle SS and I wish it was still in the garage. My high school buddy had the Camino SS and we had too much fun tearing up the streets and out running the blue lights. Of course this was before police helicopters were prevalent, and we were in bum f*ck egypt where there were plenty of back roads and old barns to dart into for the get away. We did get caught a couple of times but the fines were a pretty small slap on the wrist for the fun in the good old days.

Once- we snuck up behind the parked cop, placed a coke bottle in front of each tire. We screamed through town and (according to witnesses) the bottles popped off when he started to pursue, and the cop stopped dead in his tracks to see what had happened due to the noise.

Brings back good memories. :)

MaxRS6

December 30th, 2009, 04:29

This is one of the few parts I have not yet had to repair. I'll be interested to see how these work out for you 4dr-911 as I'm sure my time will come.

V8weight

December 30th, 2009, 04:32

These are the only two pics I could find at the moment. That's funny, I grew up out in the middle of no where, Denmark Township to be exact, and we always knew were to run too when in "persuit". Open machine sheds with doors facing away from the road. I even mastered reaching under the dash to remove the plug from the brakelight switch on the go:hihi:
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/031.jpg
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww228/Pellis833/032.jpg

MaxRS6

December 30th, 2009, 04:33

Very nice- I'm even more jealous now

The ride by the fuse box doesn't look shabby either. :)

GEN XER

December 30th, 2009, 04:47

My 73.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/GENXER1971/73vette06137.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/GENXER1971/73vette06146.jpg

MaxRS6

December 30th, 2009, 04:53

Gen Xer- That is almost the exact color I had my Chevelle painted. I loved that color on the car, and it looks awesome on your vette.

This gives me a good idea for a possible thread.- Have us Rs6 owners post up pics of their other favorite past/present rides. I'll see if I can find an picture of my old horse and post it in a new thread. I know how some of us on this forum (i won't name names) get squirrely when a thread is hijacked. :)

V8weight

December 30th, 2009, 04:54

Nice! 350? Borg Warner 4 speed?

GEN XER

December 30th, 2009, 04:58

Nice! 350? Borg Warner 4 speed?

Yes Sir. Bored out 30 over. 350/350. Hurst 4 speed.

V8weight

December 30th, 2009, 05:03

We should start a new thread, I havn't talked muscle car in a long time, I don't know if I remember how.

DHall1

December 30th, 2009, 06:51

Pat and Max

I hear you loud and clear.

My first real muscle car was a 70 442 W30. All my buddies had big block Chevelle's. I sold the W30 (like an idiot) and built up a 67SS396. I took a mint Marina blue SS396 and pulled the engine, sent the car to a guy that raced super stock Camaros...we sectioned the rear for tubs and 14x32s. In went a 427 open chamber 12.5:1 race engine and the last straw were the license plates.

I did not screw around at all. Mind you this was back in the day when "Pro Street" was just starting. My plates?

Iowa plates "U LOSE"

It would smoke the rear 14x32 tires just rolling along in 3rd gear at 35mph....car sideways going down the road and all the people running for cover.

LOL

So that pretty much explains it. I was crazy from the time I had my license. Put plates on a 550hp Chevelle that said U LOSE and towed cars with open headers at 1am out to remote highway sections for cash on the spot drag racing. We would uncork exhaust at home and rope tow the cars of the neighborhoods out to the race. Oh crap we were crazy.

We should start a new thread, I havn't talked muscle car in a long time, I don't know if I remember how.

Brav

December 30th, 2009, 08:52

Where did you get them and what was the cost?

MaxRS6

December 30th, 2009, 14:31

Pat and Max

I hear you loud and clear.

My first real muscle car was a 70 442 W30. All my buddies had big block Chevelle's. I sold the W30 (like an idiot) and built up a 67SS396. I took a mint Marina blue SS396 and pulled the engine, sent the car to a guy that raced super stock Camaros...we sectioned the rear for tubs and 14x32s. In went a 427 open chamber 12.5:1 race engine and the last straw were the license plates.

I did not screw around at all. Mind you this was back in the day when "Pro Street" was just starting. My plates?

Iowa plates "U LOSE"

It would smoke the rear 14x32 tires just rolling along in 3rd gear at 35mph....car sideways going down the road and all the people running for cover.

LOL

So that pretty much explains it. I was crazy from the time I had my license. Put plates on a 550hp Chevelle that said U LOSE and towed cars with open headers at 1am out to remote highway sections for cash on the spot drag racing. We would uncork exhaust at home and rope tow the cars of the neighborhoods out to the race. Oh crap we were crazy.

:bow:

as it was pretty much stock. That sounds like it was one mean machine and I imagine the neighborhood appreciated the roar. I got enough glares with the glass pack exhausts.

RS6-4dr911

December 30th, 2009, 14:36

Jeez, can anyone say thread hijack??

vangelis

December 30th, 2009, 15:10

Can you please post the store url where you bought them and the price for those ICs?

MaxRS6

December 30th, 2009, 15:10

Jeez, can anyone say thread hijack??

and get the waterboard out of storage.

I think I started the hijacking- No one searched my undies for PETN and I was let on board. The forum needs better screeners. j/k and my apologies 4dr911 for the unintended consequences.

Oh Lord- I hope this doesn't cause the government to show up on my doorstep as their filters search for these types of phrases. :doh:

DHall1

December 30th, 2009, 15:11

Thread hijack

RS6-4dr911

December 30th, 2009, 16:44

Can you please post the store url where you bought them and the price for those ICs?

https://www.apikol.com/#Products,Intercooler,102

They also matched Hoppen's price on the Venair hose kit. So far, they've been great to work with. Great communication, seems like a small startup where the owners are involved and actually give a damn about their customers.

Brav

December 30th, 2009, 18:00

Looks like a nice alternative. Would be good to get some thermal efficiency numbers. Thanks for posting.

And to ad to the hijack, I had 2 mopars in highschool - 383 66 Chrysler Newport and a 70 440 Chrysler 300 :)
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

Daniel

December 30th, 2009, 18:03

included the brackets for the oil coolers and the rivets to attach them...

...Just thought I'd post this for anyone considering these instead of the Wagners which cost considerably more.

The Brackets are copied 100% from wagner...

If you order just the Wagner Coolers, they are only 1250 USD, no core charge or anything...

JRS-RS6

December 30th, 2009, 18:35

The Brackets are copied 100% from wagner...

If you order just the Wagner Coolers, they are only 1250 USD, no core charge or anything...

Do you have a link for Wagner?

DHall1

December 30th, 2009, 18:36

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad348/03RSTT/Julian%20run%2009/IMG_1963.jpg?t=1262197101

Now back to the thread.

RS6-4dr911

December 30th, 2009, 20:18

Took some parts for the IC's to the mechanic that fell out of the box in my car, while there they broke the news that my turbos are leaking oil past the bearings into the intake - time for new snails. Any suggestions? Stick with OEM? I don't really plan to make a project out of this car, but since they're getting replaced anyway . . .

And FINALLY, something my very limited warranty covers.

RS6-4dr911

December 30th, 2009, 20:24

Do you have a link for Wagner?

http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_92&products_id=19214

Or see Lupo's forum offer on a different thread

DHall1

December 30th, 2009, 20:33

How do they know where the oil is coming from? Is there any way to confirm this oil source?

I only say because the oil can come from any number of areas if its in the intake upstream from the turbos. I guess I just answered my question. Tear open the intake stream upstream from the turbos. Did the mechanic do that?

Took some parts for the IC's to the mechanic that fell out of the box in my car, while there they broke the news that my turbos are leaking oil past the bearings into the intake - time for new snails. Any suggestions? Stick with OEM? I don't really plan to make a project out of this car, but since they're getting replaced anyway . . .

And FINALLY, something my very limited warranty covers.

RS6-4dr911

December 30th, 2009, 21:29

First you say "thread hijack" then you post non-related pictures and now you want to make nice??

This is no place for humor.

To answer your question seriously, I don't think he has, but a) I'm trusting his experience as both an RS6 certified tech and an experienced Audi Turbo hot-rodder and b) where else could oil come from? The only place it could be is the case breather, which does connect upstream of the turbo, there's not much else besides filters ahead of that. The amount of oil in there seems unlikely to be coming from blow-by on a 45k mi engine. Not impossible, just unlikely. Plus, the line map appears to show all lines connecting to a common line, so it should be relatively even on both sides, it was not. According to him, that's a tell tale sign, and that was before he know my warranty covered it, and he knows I hate to spend money.

Nonetheless, I'll ask. Just for you Dave.

hahnmgh63

December 30th, 2009, 22:02

RS6-4dr911 (http://www.rs6.com/forum/member.php?u=4935), I've seen 3 RS6's intercooler hoses & intercoolers that all had plenty of oil in the intake, and the RS6's seem to be able to go fairly high mileage so I'm thinking blow-by. My car has 56K and I get a fair amount of oil in the intercoolers too. I would lean towards the blow-by/PVC system. Because of that, and the fact that I just installed a new set of Wagners and Silicone hoses, I'm going to install an oil catch can in the PVC system as Turbo/Supercharged cars all seem to pass more oil through the intake than normally aspirated cars. I would think twice before replacing the Turbos. Ask Grizz as he probably has the most RS6 experience on this list, but I'm still leaning towards the PVC system.<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_178578", true); </SCRIPT>

RS6-4dr911

December 30th, 2009, 22:40

Thanks for the input Hahn and Dave. Just spoke with him and he will check it out to make sure but his comment was that out of 10 cars he's seen, only 2 had a blow-by issue. While that's 1 in 5, still leans towards a turbo, but he will confirm.

Anyone have current pricing on Turbo's? He's saying $2800/pr, not sure if that's rebuilt or new at this point, probably new as he's working on the estimate for the warranty company.

DHall1

December 31st, 2009, 05:07

When there is a problem my ADD kicks in and I am happy to solve the problem. When things get boring my ADD kicks in and I start bouncing off the roof. I think they have drugs for this kinda stuff?? Oh well, too old now to start taking drugs.

As for the oil source. If the amount is different from both banks....its a clue. But really where is the oil ending up? Post turbo compressor housing? In any large amount?

Or is the oil ending up in the ICs

If ICs then it could be blowby

If post compressor housing before it gets to the ICs...then it could be the turbos.

Good techinical issue and good the warranty will cover them.

Thanks for the input Hahn and Dave. Just spoke with him and he will check it out to make sure but his comment was that out of 10 cars he's seen, only 2 had a blow-by issue. While that's 1 in 5, still leans towards a turbo, but he will confirm.

Anyone have current pricing on Turbo's? He's saying $2800/pr, not sure if that's rebuilt or new at this point, probably new as he's working on the estimate for the warranty company.

MaxRS6

December 31st, 2009, 05:12

I think they have drugs for this kinda stuff?? Oh well, too old now to start taking drugs.

that a lot of aged persons don't go by that motto :MTM:

DHall1

December 31st, 2009, 05:15

I have never taken a Rx drug.

Pain med yes...I have crashed many a time on my mtn bikes. Oh wait, thats what my wife says made me nuts. Too many crashes on the mtn bike and 100 mile races at 12,000ft.

:vhmmm:

that a lot of aged persons don't go by that motto :MTM:

paul_23

December 31st, 2009, 06:09

I had the ICs off mine and the mechanic said there was oil residue in the hose between one turbo and the the IC. I visited and saw definite oil in the hose - it was not a huge amount but enough to drip out when the hose was turned vertical. The mechanic said it is probably the turbo leaking. I looked at the other side and there was oil residue (probably from blowby) but not an accumulation like the other side. The car had been stood for over 1 week and also I never have to top up the oil level.

I spoke to a few people and it seems fairly normal for turbos to have a small amount of oil on the IC side. The turbos must have tolerance and as they heat up the tolerances get tighter. see http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/faqs.html for some info.

The real question is how much oil passing (by seepage or blowby) is OK and how much is not? Mine was put back together and I have been monitoring boost etc on VAGCOM and the figures seems OK, and it does not use any oil. Therefore, what is the result of some oil passing - I guess it gradually coats the internals of the ICs then is there any thing it can affect after that?

grizz

December 31st, 2009, 14:36

grizz

December 31st, 2009, 14:38

Guys ,
The i/c's look good but very expensive for a core change ...
Get the wagner's that are bigger & better .

RS6-4dr911

January 1st, 2010, 00:37

Gotta love aftermarket warranty companies. I have to be willing to pay the tech for R&R of the engine if they end up denying the claim for turbo replacement. I'll pass.

Based on the feedback, and quite frankly Grizz's comments carried the most weight since he's probably seen more RS6's than most, this seems normal, and since my logs indicate that I always make full boost, I'll keep them on and assume they're good as most seem to claim. Hopefully the IC's were the cause of the sluggish off the line performance, we'll see when I finally get it back next week.

Avus-RS6

January 1st, 2010, 04:07

My 73.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/GENXER1971/73vette06137.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/GENXER1971/73vette06146.jpg

Hotttt!!!!!!!! I love those old vettes, and the best year too (for me anyways)

JRS-RS6

January 1st, 2010, 21:07

Thanks for the Wagner link RS6-4dr911.

snoopra

January 1st, 2010, 21:43

.............I'm going to install an oil catch can in the PVC system...........<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_178578", true); </SCRIPT>
Please post details on the install as I would like to do this also.

hahnmgh63

January 1st, 2010, 22:01

Looks like with the RS6 crankcase and cam tower venting PVC system that you need a catch can on each bank. There is a common connection hose between banks for equalization but for flow direction each bank will need one. I have two of the same cans including the one on my tt (which I will temporarily steal for the RS6). Right now I'm just waiting on a couple of brass fittings for the RS6 hose diameter to connect to the catch can. Looks like it can be done without pulling the airfilter assembly, just need to remove the front access cover. Mounting the catch cans on either side fo the engine looks to be the bigger task.