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View Full Version : Arch Rivals...S4 V8 vs E46 M3.



Klint
August 31st, 2003, 19:16
Hi,

To keep the story short i'll get straight to the point.

In the near future. Maybe 4-6 months, maybe more. I'll be upgrading from the 325i. I wouldn't quote me on that, as the economy changes and certain circumstances depend on the upgrade. (or downgrade...fingers crossed it wont go that way)

I have a slight dilemma. I've brought the next car down to two significant vehicles: The S4 V8 and the E46 M3. I have reasons why I would choose one over the other and here they are:

+ I like torque, the 4.2 V8 provides more than the 6 pot motor from the M3.
+ The four doors. Allows better functionality and praticality.
+ Audi interiors are the best engineered out there (except the range rover etc)
+ Four wheel drive. It has it's advantages in poorer conditions.
+ A few ££££'s can be saved on the purchase price over the M3.
+ Tuning potential...Earlier this week there was a thread on a claimed 400bhp...That I find interesting as the M3 engine has 'enough' in factory form, so the M3 motor would have to be left stock. Allowing the S4 to become an instant M3 beater and a possible M5 contender.
+ The style. It's got class and finesse where it should be, more of a party boy with a dinner suit on, wearing sneakers or trainers. Where as the M3 is the athelete with shorts and t-shirt with the latest Nike footwear.

- I've heard that Audi's steering isn't up to BMW standards..This really does ruin my appeal of the car. I wouldn't really know untill I got behind the wheel of one. I like the instantaneous responses from the 325's steering.
- Rear space: Is there enough space behind there after a couple of 6 foot 3+ people have moved their seats back? It may have two more doors over the M3 but is it 'really' more?
- I'm a loyal BMW fan as is my 'old man'. This is going to be hard for Audi to perform, despite the BMW and Audi dealership having the same owner.
- Four wheel drive. It's good in poor conditions, but can oversteer still be done in the S4? Will the car just go into an understeering frenzy without ANY adjustability of the chassis?

That's seven points in the S4's favour vs three to the M3 (Not incl: "Rear Space")

Opinions please?


:cheers:

Artur Costa
September 1st, 2003, 01:33
Well from what you are saying I dont see why would you go for the M3!
You say all in favour of the S4...
In my opinion you should go for the S4, but I would go for the M3 :hihi:
Why?
The M3 is a beautifull coupe not a 4 door...
The M3 is lighter and has the sound that I most love (high reving, low torque and fast reving)
The coupe lines are beautifull!
The SMGII makes you feel like your racing in an F1!
The rear wheel drive will provide you hours of fun anywere you go.

As a daily drive the S4 would probably win , but it will never win when comparing the fun the car gives.In that point the M3 is a clear winner.

BTW if you want a nice daily drive get a TDI like I did , its easier to drive then any other car and its still fast. :D

Ra5a
September 1st, 2003, 02:23
i'm having the same duscussion with myself right now..
but I'm an Audi fan and want to buy a Z4 (i don't want the TT and the S3 is out of production and the new one will be too expensive)

i like bmw's rear wheel drive, it seems to be alot of fun..
in wet conditions a quattro 1.8T will probably be as fast as a z4 2.5 or even faster..


anyways that's my problem :P

now to your problem..
the M3 is a beauty, no doubt but the s4 will be faster any time the track is wet or it's slippery..
it's a v8 ;)
on top gear they said there was a little understeer but it wasnt so much that you would crash onto the nearest tree evrytime you take a turn ;)
you can oversteer audi's.. audi has a special handle for them and they call it "the handbrake"
just as with frontwheel drive you'll probably have to use the handbrake for hairpin's

becouse there is no turbo you will probably have to shift back..
and that's alot of fun :P

but to really anwser your question you will probably have to tell what you want to do with the car..
is it for boulevard cruisin'
racing
street racing
etc. etc.

i'm sorry for making such a mess of this post..
i have no excuse..
i just typed what i was thinking of :P

smerayo
September 1st, 2003, 04:29
I guess these two people are kinda right!! An m3 is a myth. I have had an e46 m3 and i am waiting for the S4, and i still think the s4 won t be as much fun as the M3. Let s not forget that the S4 weights around 200 kgs more than the M3, and that s a lot.It goes without saying that, the M3 is pure radicality, on the other side, we have (i think) a lazy s4 v8, unless an upgrade is made up to 400hp:D :D :D that would make the s4 a totally diferent car.
I guess i should wait until my s4 is delievered and tell the real differences about the M3 and the S4...:confused: :rolleyes:

Needless to say that the M3 is a TOOOOOOOO beatifull coupe! and the S4 is DIFFERENT?? NOT SO SPECIAL???:rolleyes:

johann
September 1st, 2003, 22:19
If you want a drivers car get the M3. If you want a car that is almost as fun but more practical get the S4.

A test drive would be in order and will help you decide.

BTW, aren't you under 20? I think a sports coupé would suite you better than a sports sedan or sports avant and dress suite with sneakers really don't match. ;)


Personally, I'd choose an S4 for the winter season and an M3 for the summer. :)

Cheers,
/Johan

Ra5a
September 2nd, 2003, 00:01
Originally posted by johann
If you want a drivers car get the M3. If you want a car that is almost as fun but more practical get the S4.

A test drive would be in order and will help you decide.

BTW, aren't you under 20? I think a sports coupé would suite you better than a sports sedan or sports avant and dress suite with sneakers really don't match. ;)


Personally, I'd choose an S4 for the winter season and an M3 for the summer. :)

Cheers,
/Johan

yeah..

but then again i'm 18 and i like the S4 as much as the M3..
but in the netherlands i would go for the s4.. the roads are good but there's alot of rain..
not that i would be racing in extreme conditions ;)

avdh
September 2nd, 2003, 08:50
Klint,

Don’t worry too much about what is being said about the S4's steering. I think it is a preconceived idea that Audi’s steering feel is “ipso facto” inferior to any BMW.

We have a E46 325i Touring and had a 330 CiC, an S3 (the third one) and an S6. Both Audi’s have a far better feel/feedback and precision than the 325. In fact I am not very happy with the lightness of the 325.

I have had many BMW’s, drove an M3 extensively in 2001 and frankly, although the Audi’s feel different, they are not inferior, otherwise I would still be driving Beemers.

As for understeering, you could say the opposite with BMW, will the M3 go into a oversteering frenzy? In each case the understeering or the oversteering is controllable. The S4, like any other quattro’s understeering can easily be controlled with the throttle.

As for fun driving, you can get just as much fun with an S4 as you can get with a M3, as long as you know what to do. Did you see that video of the S4 at a driving course in Spain? Understeer, oversteer, the guy could do anything he wanted with the S4, hence contrary to what Johann says, the M3 is not more of a driver’s car than the S4 is.

Now when it comes to driving on public road, specially the bumpy twisty ones, the S4 will be safer, more controllable and quicker than the M3.

On a 2.5 km tight racing track, my S6 (400 bhp & lowered suspension) is only 1 second slower than an M3 driven by a professional driver and more or less on par with M3's driven by good drivers. The S6 being an heavy car, I would expect the S4 to shape even better, even more so with the Milltek exhaust and AmD re-mapping.

Milltek (http://www.milltek.co.uk/)

AmD (http://www.amdtechnik.com)

Erik
September 2nd, 2003, 11:17
I think the steering in the M3 is better than the S4. But it is better than in the S60R.
The feeling in the S4 could probably improve if you lower it a little more, and made the suspension tiffer. When turning in high speeds it feels a little bit unsafe and unsteady, not said it is though.

Here is what Bentley says about the new Continental (awd), I think this design theory goes for many of the modern cars as well:

"The overall set-up of the suspension has been configured to make the Continental GT an inherent mildly understeering car in steady-state cornering. This approach has been adopted primarily because Bentley believes that oversteer is a condition that should only ever arise at the driver's command. A car with low levels of natural understeer will, when the limit of adhesion is finally broached, gently start to run wide in a corner, a condition that can easily be cancelled by a simple lift of the accelerator. Bentley believes this is undoubtedly the safest and therefore the only responsible route to take.
That said, Bentley is equally aware that most Continental GT drivers will be of the 'press on' variety and have made it possible for the engine's torque to be used to overcome understeer in certain conditions, allowing the car to adopt a stance of neutrality or even mild and controllable oversteer, regulated by the ESP system."

351 Ponies
September 2nd, 2003, 20:53
Avdh,

I know you're a die-hard Audi fan but some things you say are ridiculous.

The BM's have much better steering feel feedback because there's no power going to the front wheels to corrupt them. RWD always has a better feel. In fact, 4WD cars a reknown for dead steering, especially Audi's. What did you think? All the journalists are lying?

2ndly, how the hell do you figure the M3 will go into an "overtsteering frenzy"? There are 1000hp RWD Supra's that don't do that. AN M3's chassis is very capable of sustaining 350-odd hp. Have you seen the Best Motoring videos of an M3 beating a Subaru Sti in the rain on a track?

3rdly, you are right about having fun in an S4. However, I doubt you can have as much fun as in an M3. It's not as light as an EVO so 4WD drifts might be difficult with all that weight up front.

Lastly, 1 second over a 2.5km course is not as close as you think. Time to get the Audi blinkers off. I'm not saying the M3 is the better car. Just it isn't as bad as you think.

avdh
September 3rd, 2003, 09:54
Originally posted by 351 Ponies
Avdh,

I know you're a die-hard Audi fan but some things you say are ridiculous.

The BM's have much better steering feel feedback because there's no power going to the front wheels to corrupt them. RWD always has a better feel. In fact, 4WD cars a reknown for dead steering, especially Audi's. What did you think? All the journalists are lying?

No, what I am saying is that it is not as bad as some would like us to believe, and that if you are used to a certain feel, you may not like the Audi Feel, but that does not make it worse, it's a question of opinion and remember although I do not own an M3 I have BMW's as well, and I prefer any of my Audi's to the BMW (again not M3) and when I drove the BMW M3 it is not like I was bold over by the M3's steering feel and wanting to buy on the spot becuase of that supposively great feel.



2ndly, how the hell do you figure the M3 will go into an "overtsteering frenzy"? There are 1000hp RWD Supra's that don't do that. AN M3's chassis is very capable of sustaining 350-odd hp. Have you seen the Best Motoring videos of an M3 beating a Subaru Sti in the rain on a track?

Read my post again I said:
As for understeering, you could say the opposite with BMW, will the M3 go into a oversteering frenzy?
Which means that it is just as ridiculous to say the S4 would go into an understeer frenzy as to say an M3 would go into an oversteer frenzy




3rdly, you are right about having fun in an S4. However, I doubt you can have as much fun as in an M3. It's not as light as an EVO so 4WD drifts might be difficult with all that weight up front.

Well that's preconcived idea, I have my own.




Lastly, 1 second over a 2.5km course is not as close as you think. Time to get the Audi blinkers off. I'm not saying the M3 is the better car. Just it isn't as bad as you think.

First of all no one expects an S6 to be as quick around the track as an M3, but when it comes to the S4, with the right driver, it can be, in fact Top Gear, on their little track, found the S4 quicker than the M3.
I have never said the M3 was bad. I have great respect for that car,, but it is no longer the only one and the absolute best for now.

johann
September 3rd, 2003, 17:35
Originally posted by avdh
First of all no one expects an S6 to be as quick around the track as an M3

From Sport Auto:

M3: Hockenheim 1.16,3, Nürburgring 8.22
S4: Hockenheim, 1.18.1, Nürburgring not tested yet
S6: Hockenheim 1.21.4, Nürburgring to slow to be tested ;)

Maybe the S6 was only 1 s slower in rain. ;)

Cheers,
/Johan

johann
September 3rd, 2003, 17:36
Originally posted by Ra5a
yeah..

but then again i'm 18 and i like the S4 as much as the M3..
but in the netherlands i would go for the s4.. the roads are good but there's alot of rain..
not that i would be racing in extreme conditions ;)

You never speed in Holland anyway. ;)

johann
September 3rd, 2003, 17:44
Originally posted by avdh
Now when it comes to driving on public road, specially the bumpy twisty ones, the S4 will be safer, more controllable and quicker than the M3.

That is just not true!
Only in wet and snow will the S4 more controllable and quicker and this means it can be less safe because the speed will be higher if you loose it, that is if you use the advantage of the S4 to be quicker.

Driving the M3 with DSC is almost fool proof and I really find it hard to believe that you drove the M3 extensively if you come to the above conclusion. :confused:

BTW, Did you drive the new S4?

Bauer
September 3rd, 2003, 19:10
Klint,

It really comes down to which car "feels" best to YOU. I agree with johann that a test drive is in order, it is the only way you will be able to make the best decission for you. I am a huge Audi fan and I am very comfortable with the steering and balance of the cars. The AWD for me is what makes all Audi's it is one of the primary reasons I continue to buy the cars. They have been doing it for over 25yrs when they started devlopment of the Quattro system in the late 70s. I love the control of cars in bad weather and for that matter in good weather.

Look there are people like me and Johann, who will almost always favor one car over the other....its just how were are (Johann, if I am off on this one sorry):D . Don't get me wrong I have HUGE respect for BMW's and there abilities but.......I am an Audi fan so the info you get from me will be in favor of Audi even though I do try to give a fair opinion.

So thats why I agree with Johann you NEED to drive both and find which one suits YOU best not anyone else. Does the car satisfy your needs? So try and find a friend, dealer or whoever to let you drive both cars in all conditions before you decide.:incar:

Bauer

03 RS6
01 S8
92 S4

avdh
September 3rd, 2003, 21:05
Originally posted by johann
From Sport Auto:

M3: Hockenheim 1.16,3, Nürburgring 8.22
S4: Hockenheim, 1.18.1, Nürburgring not tested yet
S6: Hockenheim 1.21.4, Nürburgring to slow to be tested ;)

Maybe the S6 was only 1 s slower in rain. ;)

Cheers,
/Johan

First of all it wasn't Hockenheim
Second on that particular track that I mentioned, my S6 is 3 to 4 seconds faster than a standard S6 driven by Motor Journalists.
Thirdly I have witnesses if you don't beleive me.

351 Ponies
September 3rd, 2003, 21:07
Absolutely right. It's all down to your personal needs. I have had 2 Audi's & am on my 2nd BMW. I currently have an E46 M3 & I have had an S4 & M3 together for over a year. I currently live in a very hot climate area with NO snow & I am going through a phase in my life where I go to track events often. Were I in different situation in my life I might have kept the S4. To drive my kids safely in a high snowfall area I would never consider an M3.

Contrary to what Avdh says, quattro is not for performance but rather for safety. I have tracked both my S4 & M3 & there is a world of difference. Loads of understeer in most bends from a stock S4. Sure, you can buy coilovers & modify the suspension but it still won't be as neutral as a stock M3. There's just too much weight up front. Having said that, if you aren't going to track the car then the M3 would be a waste of time for you. On the road an S4 would be a much better everyday car. You can also tackle the odd mountain pass & not miss an M3 at all.

It's only on a racetrack that you can push an M3 to its limits & see where the S4 fails. Its obvious they had different design parameters. The M3 brakes are bulletproof & feel like they will last 100 laps (the S4's fade after a few hot laps). The steering communicates every bump & you can feel where the tail is (the S4's steering feels like dead wood). The stiff suspension corners flat & the RWD with M-diff provides more than enough traction for any racetrack (the S4 leans too much in the corners). The M3 isn't exactly a torque-monster than wheelspins out of every hairpin. The way I see it, if you wheels aren't spinning then you don't need 4WD. It's only at a point where your driven wheels are not able to transmit the torque to the road that 4WD would help you AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT. FOr me that happens when launching & when snapping into 2nd gear. At most tracks I am never in such a situation so 4WD would just be extra weight to carry around.

avdh
September 3rd, 2003, 21:22
351 ponies

Compairing a B5 S4 with an E46 M3?

We're talking about a B6 S4 and a E46 M3.

Big difference.

351 Ponies
September 3rd, 2003, 21:31
Yeah, the difference is even more understeer with a big V8 up front. Seriously my S4 was chipped. I have ordered the new S4 but cancelled. I am in a real track mood at the moment. I wish I could get a Lotus Exige or something.

Fab5
September 3rd, 2003, 21:39
Hi,

the S4 V8 is lighter than the E46 M3 engine,not much but its lighter.

fab5

Erik
September 3rd, 2003, 21:42
Originally posted by 351 Ponies
Yeah, the difference is even more understeer with a big V8 up front.

No, your wrong about more understeer. The V8 doesn't weight more than the V6...and Audi has come a long way to develop better feeling in the steering. It's not as good as the M3, but it is a step forward compared to the old S4 biturbo.
It will be very interesting to see what happens when sport auto drives the S4 on Nürburgring. I don't think it will be that much behind the M3.
And I wonder why the next M3 (or is it M4?) will have a V8 as well? :eek:

Did you drive the new S4 V8 yet?

http://www.rs6.com/articles/003.html

"An additional benefit: the entire V8 at only 195 kilograms total weight is just as light as its predecessor in the previous S4, a 2.7-litre V6 biturbo engine. This results in major benefits for the weight balance and handling characteristics."

"Compared with the basic version, the new S4 has a much more direct steering ratio: as far as the driver is concerned, this is a contribution to the sports-oriented handling of the agile eight-cylinder version that can be experienced in all situations. "

Not just words...

351 Ponies
September 3rd, 2003, 21:59
Originally posted by Fab5
Hi,

the S4 V8 is lighter than the E46 M3 engine,not much but its lighter.

fab5

Yeah, but the straight 6 is set very far back in the engine bay & there's no drivetrain weight up front. That's gives a 50/50 WD & a low polar moment of inertia that allows the nose to go where you point it. When you drive them back to back you feel the difference.

avdh
September 4th, 2003, 08:40
Originally posted by 351 Ponies
Yeah, but the straight 6 is set very far back in the engine bay & there's no drivetrain weight up front. That's gives a 50/50 WD & a low polar moment of inertia that allows the nose to go where you point it. When you drive them back to back you feel the difference.

The new S4 V8 is also quite far back, as the cam chain is now at the back of the engine, compared to other 4.2 V8's where the cam belt (not chain) is at the front of the engine.

At the end of the day who cares, it's what you like that matters, you prefer the M3? cool, other people don't, so be it.

I think I know who you are 351 ponies, and if you are who I think you are, then I would strongly advise anyone on this forum to ignore this guy.
BTW If I'am correct, he does not have a B5 S4 as they were never released in the country where he lives.

Erik can you ping 351 ponies server's IP address?

351 Ponies
September 4th, 2003, 14:28
Who do you think you are, Saddam Hussein? How can you tell people to ignore me. Ever heard of freedom of speech? People here are adults & can choose whether they want to listen to me or not. All I said s that an M3 is a better track car (& most mags agree with me). I even admitted that an S4 is a better overall car. I don't think I'm the one with blinkers.

avdh
September 4th, 2003, 17:33
351 ponies,

There is a guy who goes by the name of M&M and I8A4RE, who posts on various forums, who writes and argues exactly the way you do. and he goes on and on and on.

But if it's not you, then please accept my apologies.

Klint
September 4th, 2003, 17:34
Ooops...This (that Was) friendly thread has gone abit nuts. :eek:

Advh,

check your inbox!

:cheers:

avdh
September 4th, 2003, 18:05
Thanks Klint! That's exactly what I thought.

So 351 ponies, like I thought, you're from South Africa!

And you owned a B5 S4? That's very interesting, as no B5 S4's were ever imported to South Africa and since I know who you are, the only Audi you have ever owned was an A3 1.8T.

As for the E46 M3, when did you get it?

johann
September 4th, 2003, 18:34
Originally posted by avdh
First of all it wasn't Hockenheim
Second on that particular track that I mentioned, my S6 is 3 to 4 seconds faster than a standard S6 driven by Motor Journalists.
Thirdly I have witnesses if you don't beleive me.

I do believe you, I was only kidding.
Your car is modified so it's apple and oranges anyway.

Cheers,
/Johan

johann
September 4th, 2003, 18:35
Originally posted by Fab5
Hi,

the S4 V8 is lighter than the E46 M3 engine,not much but its lighter.

fab5

ERR! It is more than 50 kg heavier.

Fab5
September 4th, 2003, 18:42
Hi,

no it is not

SportAuto:

S4 engine 195kg

m3 engine 205kg

not much but its lighter!!


Fab5

johann
September 4th, 2003, 18:42
Originally posted by Erik
...and Audi has come a long way to develop better feeling in the steering. It's not as good as the M3, but it is a step forward compared to the old S4 biturbo.

I certainly agree.


Originally posted by Erik
It will be very interesting to see what happens when sport auto drives the S4 on Nürburgring. I don't think it will be that much behind the M3.

I'd be suprised if gets a lap time below 8.30. On the other hand I was suprised by RS6's lap time too.


Originally posted by Erik
And I wonder why the next M3 (or is it M4?) will have a V8 as well?

Only reason is to be able to extract more power than the current I6 that is at or close to its limits.


Did you drive the new S4 V8 yet?


Originally posted by Erik
"An additional benefit: the entire V8 at only 195 kilograms total weight is just as light as its predecessor in the previous S4, a 2.7-litre V6 biturbo engine. This results in major benefits for the weight balance and handling characteristics."

How can a engine that is as heavy be a major benefit for weight balance and handling characteristics? :rolleyes:

Cheers,
/Johan

johann
September 4th, 2003, 18:43
Originally posted by 351 Ponies
Yeah, but the straight 6 is set very far back in the engine bay & there's no drivetrain weight up front. That's gives a 50/50 WD & a low polar moment of inertia that allows the nose to go where you point it. When you drive them back to back you feel the difference.

It is 50 kg lighter too....

johann
September 4th, 2003, 18:45
Originally posted by Fab5
Hi,

no it is not

SportAuto:

S4 engine 195kg

m3 engine 205kg

not much but its lighter!!


Fab5

Since when did Sport Auto publish weights for engines? :confused:

The S54 is just a tad below 150 kg according to BMW and the 195 kg for S4 comes from Audi.

351 Ponies
September 4th, 2003, 21:05
Avdh,

All you had to do is ask. I am not this person you think I am. I was born in SA but have been living in Toronto since the age of 3. I have returned & am have now settled down in SA. I have in fact owned an S4 & an E36 M3 in Canada & now own an E46 M3 here is sunny SA. Give me your mail address & I will mail you offline if you want.

Klint
September 4th, 2003, 23:24
I believe BMW is very anal about weight distributions....so much so, they actually have put my 325 motor at an angle away from the steering system (the top end is leaning to the left on the right hand drive car to help make up for the 'extra' weight from the steering column what's on the right, very smart.)...I think this is to help with the left and right balance.

Otherwise, please keep the discusions friendly. :bye:

Andreas.ka
September 5th, 2003, 13:58
holy smoke, its lot of bullshit here.

My tip: testdrive both cars, they are both good.
S4 is more practical and M3 is more fun to drive.
Thats it...

351 Ponies
September 5th, 2003, 15:57
Avdh, mail me on Gavin.Elliot@xantiumit.co.za if you are in the Pretoria region. We can meet up & I'll take you for a spin.

avdh
September 6th, 2003, 11:15
351 ponies

Sorry, but I am still not convinced.

There are too many things in your posts that relate you to who I thought you were.

In your first post you address me like if you knew me. As far as I can see you haven't been on this board for long.

You profile is very misterious. Where most people enter details about themselves, yours is mostly blank.

In your post where you claim that you had a E46 M3 and a S4, you make no mention whatsoever that you were referring to a E36 M3. In fact your post is written as if you are referring to the E46 M3 mentioned at the beginning of the post and the S4 being owned at the same time.
Only in a subsequent post you mentioned that you lived in Canada and that you had an E36 M3 while you also own an S4, if you read both posts there is something that simply does not gel.

You said: I am going through a phase in my life where I go to track events often
The person I think you are, said exactly the same sentence in one his posts on the SA Audi Club forum.

Sorry but there is too many coincidences, similarities and "grey" area, but be it as it may, where ever your name is Gavin or Shervin it does not matter. (Shervin is devious enough to use some else's e-mail address to fool us).

Well I don't want to perpetuate this discussion ad infinitum so let's say for now it's a case of mistaken identity for which I already apologised.

Enjoy the Forum.

351 Ponies
September 6th, 2003, 12:32
Well, if you mail me we can meet up face to face & see if I look familiar. I haven't owned an E46 M3 in Canada. I only bought mine when I came to SA.

johann
September 7th, 2003, 03:47
Originally posted by avdh
351 ponies

Sorry, but I am still not convinced.

There are too many things in your posts that relate you to who I thought you were.

In your first post you address me like if you knew me. As far as I can see you haven't been on this board for long.

You profile is very misterious. Where most people enter details about themselves, yours is mostly blank.

In your post where you claim that you had a E46 M3 and a S4, you make no mention whatsoever that you were referring to a E36 M3. In fact your post is written as if you are referring to the E46 M3 mentioned at the beginning of the post and the S4 being owned at the same time.
Only in a subsequent post you mentioned that you lived in Canada and that you had an E36 M3 while you also own an S4, if you read both posts there is something that simply does not gel.

You said: I am going through a phase in my life where I go to track events often
The person I think you are, said exactly the same sentence in one his posts on the SA Audi Club forum.

Sorry but there is too many coincidences, similarities and "grey" area, but be it as it may, where ever your name is Gavin or Shervin it does not matter. (Shervin is devious enough to use some else's e-mail address to fool us).

Well I don't want to perpetuate this discussion ad infinitum so let's say for now it's a case of mistaken identity for which I already apologised.

Enjoy the Forum.

Yada yada yada....

Did you drive the new S4? ;)

Cheers,
/Johan

avdh
September 7th, 2003, 11:00
Neither 351 ponies, nor I could have driven the S4 as it will be introduced in South Africa this month.
Official launch for the public is 18 September.
I' hope to drive one the week after.