DRC vs Bilstein/Koni Struts.

[Innovator]

I am having issues with the 'new' DRC system that was installed in my car in Sept, when the car was owned by someone else.

It clunks, squeeks and rattles over bumps. I'm not sure if Audi will fix it under warranty or not now, and I'm not sure I want to deal with the hassle..

I know about the coil over options, but is there any reason I can't reuse the stock springs and just replace the struts with some good Koni Or Bilstein struts, and maybe some stiffer sway bars to make up for the loss of the DRC anti leaning benefit?

Rick

[RS6-4dr911]

It is my understanding that the replacement has a 12mo/12k mi warranty.

I doubt if you could replace the struts and keep the springs, typically a matched set. The spring rate is probably pretty soft, relying on the DRC to create a stiff handling car through the hydraulics.

I'd try first to get the DRC working correctly. Plenty have it and are happy with it, clearly yours needs help.

[DHall1]

+1 ^^ what he said.

Make Audi fix it.

[Innovator]

+1 ^^ what he said.

Make Audi fix it. Make Audi fix it...like making a horse drink:lovl:

[MaxRS6]

Make Audi fix it...like making a horse drink:lovl:

KW and Hotchkiss sway bars. I must admit it is odd to drive the car without the worry of a clunk or DRC oil spill as they always came at inopportune times.

In one year, I had my car at the shop 5 times for the DRC. Multiple letters to AoA did no good. It ended up wasting a lot of my time with the constant trips to the service shop.

I will note that AoA did finally come through and reimbursed me for the KW costs and sway bars. However; I'll never get my time back that slipped through the hourglass.

With that said, there are owners that have had a good experience with the DRC, and the new new new new recent DRC parts and install.

It seems like it comes down to what you are looking for in a suspension system, and how much tolerance/patience/time/skill you may have to deal with issues.

Less than .02 worth I'm sure but I had some time to kill and thought I would excercise the fingers.

[Innovator]

My left rear strut makes a choo choo sound when you push down on the rear of the car. Over bumps, the rear right rattles. There is nothing loose or worn otherwise, so the struts or the install is at fault.

Its under a 12/12 dealer warranty. I don't know if it's worth the hassle fixing the DRC dealer or replacing the struts with Bilsteins,and upgrading the sway bars myself..I have no point of reference, because I never felt the DRC as it should be. I'm sure the dealer would come through, but is it worth the hassle? That is the question.

[hahnmgh63]

I'm with MaxRS6 as far as KW's and Hotchkis bars. If you want a pretty good ride with pretty good handling, the DRC isn't too bad. The poor reliability and unexpected handling was a no go for me. Supposedly they got these new parts in Europe almost a year before we did and they don't have a great record. I can't believe a new dust boot is going to solve all of the problems and the fact that when it fails, my dealer is 1~1.5 hours each way and if it isn't done right then there is another trip back and forth. Warranty or not, my time is worth more to me unless there going to come to my house and pick up the car on a flatbed.
For me, I always wanted my car about 1" lower than stock. My DRC was still working although a little softer than I would have liked too. I am completely happy with the KW's, a search on the internet shows that they more than back there products and their reliability is excellent. They are ride height adjustable as well as compression & rebound (not the easiest to do once installed). They are also about 40# less the the DRC junk. The suspension is slightly more harsh over expansion joints in the road but otherwise almost as the ride of the DRC but with much sharper handling. I never worry heading out about the reliability and I can't stress that enough. I'm tired of dealing with Audi, and some of the horror stories on this list over the years has sold me.

[V8weight]

I'm with MaxRS6 as far as KW's and Hotchkis bars. If you want a pretty good ride with pretty good handling, the DRC isn't too bad. The poor reliability and unexpected handling was a no go for me. Supposedly they got these new parts in Europe almost a year before we did and they don't have a great record. I can't believe a new dust boot is going to solve all of the problems and the fact that when it fails, my dealer is 1~1.5 hours each way and if it isn't done right then there is another trip back and forth. Warranty or not, my time is worth more to me unless there going to come to my house and pick up the car on a flatbed.
For me, I always wanted my car about 1" lower than stock. My DRC was still working although a little softer than I would have liked too. I am completely happy with the KW's, a search on the internet shows that they more than back there products and their reliability is excellent. They are ride height adjustable as well as compression & rebound (not the easiest to do once installed). They are also about 40# less the the DRC junk. The suspension is slightly more harsh over expansion joints in the road but otherwise almost as the ride of the DRC but with much sharper handling. I never worry heading out about the reliability and I can't stress that enough. I'm tired of dealing with Audi, and some of the horror stories on this list over the years has sold me.
I completely agree, KW's are the way to go. There isn't an RS6 application for the bilstein struts, so trying to retrofit a set would just be a compromise. On a side note, hahnmgh63, have you installed the spherical control arm bushings yet? I'm interested to hear if they add any harshness to the ride quality.

[hahnmgh63]

Getting ready to do the install in the next couple of weeks. I have the front end apart right now installing my Wagner intercoolers that UPS just delivered today, they look great, doing Silicone hoses too, although Venair just sent me a set of Corvetter coolant hoses so I'll have to wait for the exchange, I also just bought a nice aluminum oil catch can to help keep the intake tract cleaner, and give the engine all of the octane it's got coming to it.

[hahnmgh63]

Here is the Bilstein part# out of their catalog. Ask for some feedback as some were having a little clunking although it may not have been the shocks and just control arms that were worn which wear out quickly on C5 Audi's and especially the RS6 due to the extra weight it carries.

BILSTEIN - - 9-way Perf Susp Sys (PSS9)

<!--eof Product Name--><!--bof Main Product Image --><SCRIPT language=javascript type=text/javascript><!--// ' . zen_image($products_image_medium, addslashes($products_name), MEDIUM_IMAGE_WIDTH, MEDIUM_IMAGE_HEIGHT) . 'document.write('http://www.rs6.com/data/Image/no_picture.gif
picture may not exactly match actual product (http://javascript<b></b>:popupWindow(\&#39;http://www.bilsteinus.com/cart/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=2308&zenid=\&#39;))');//--></SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>
LIST PRICE: $2,466.00 Part Number: F4-GM5-8868-H2

BILSTEIN - Audi A6/S6/RS6 4B 4WD ;K; B16

Setting: 9-way Perf Susp Sys (PSS9)

[MaxRS6]

doing Silicone hoses too, although Venair just sent me a set of Corvetter coolant hoses so I'll have to wait for the exchange,

Venair (Spain office) told me my order was going to take 3 to 4 weeks from Spain after I placed the order, and I needed them sooner. Venair's web site said it would take 5 - 12 days and I called them on it. Venair was very prompt and were able to send me the RS6 turbo hoses from their Miami office in two days.

If you have some sort of time crunch, you might consider this as an option to get the hoses quicker than having the replacements shipped from Spain.

VENAIR INC. MIAMI
(commercial office)14470 Commerce wayMiami Lakes FL 33016 (USA)Tel. (305) 362 89 20Fax (305) 362 89 21USAsales@venair.com (USAsales@venair.com)<O:p></O:p>

[hahnmgh63]

I ordered my hoses through their website (spanish) but they shipped the hoses from Miami, UPS screwed up the shipping, they got to Seattle, then re-routed all the way back to the East coast, figured it out then finally got to me. I was happy to finally get them until I opened the box to find they were coolant hoses for a 350CID corvette. I E-mailed them (Miami) yesterday but no reply yet. I'll call them tomorrow to figure this out. I'm also going to do a leak check on my old intercoolers as I'm sure one was leaking but I'll check them both anyways.

[wmgarton]

I completely agree, KW's are the way to go. There isn't an RS6 application for the bilstein struts, so trying to retrofit a set would just be a compromise. On a side note, hahnmgh63, have you installed the spherical control arm bushings yet? I'm interested to hear if they add any harshness to the ride quality.

If you're looking for Pss9's check ECS Tuning:
www.ecstuning.com/Audi_A6-2.7T/Suspension/Coil/ES4552/ (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi_A6-2.7T/Suspension/Coil/ES4552/)
less than $1800

[GEN XER]

I think if/when my DRC goes again, Im going with AVO if they have an RS6 application, if not then KW's I have a set of AVO's coming for my GTI VR6, they are said to be as good as KW's. I am also considering selling my GTI for an R32. My wife does not know this yet, so Ill wait till after Xmas and after the house we are looking at getting is closed.

[Innovator]

I do quite a bit of suspension modifications and repairs on Audis. The A6 4.2 weighs around the same as the RS6 . The struts for an A6 will definately work on a RS6, no question. So will A6 4.2 H&R or Eibach springs for the 4.2... All that, with the sway bars can be obtained for under 1200, and I can install it for 600 plus an alignment... Don't be fooled into paying more for an RS6 specific suspension, because it's baloney... Other than the DRC, this suspension is the same as the A6. If you buy adjustable struts or coil overs, you will always think you could have adjusted them better... I like the fixed style, simple, and nothing to worry about, and totally reliable..

Due to the cars lower height, you must use the Bilstein Sport Strut, because the rod is shorter and will not bottom out with the RS6 lower ride height.

I spoke to the head tech at my dealership yesterday about the DRC. He said that the ride height should not be affected by the DRC pressure. I know that counters what I've read on this forum, but that's what the techs are taught anyway. If the car sits higher after the recall, it's probably due to the position the control arms were in when the were re-torqued. The car sits on the springs, not the shocks..He said that clunking indicates that not enough fluid was injected into the sytem on install.Not so much a pressure issue.. Either way, it seems to me this is a problem that will never go away, and I hate the fact I lack the tools to fix it myself, as that is the only way in my mind the DRC will ever work correctly. I cannot tolerate a rattly clunking car.. And I cannot bring myself to pay the dealer to do what I do all day long...

My DRC replacement strategy is go cheap, yet sufficient. All you really need to do, is replace the struts and sway bars, as long as you are happy with the ride height, as is stock.. Some Bilsteins have grooves cut in them, so you can lower the spring perch, thus lowering the car. If the back sits too low, you can also raise it up if need be..

I want my car to handle crisp, but lets face it, this car is not a race car. It is big and heavy, and will never handle like a RS4 or M3. Sure, you can kill the ride quality and make it ride like a hay wagon, deriving slightly more responsiveness and lateral traction in the process, but IMHO, not enough to make it worth while. The car is not balanced, and that is very hard to overcome..

I'm gonna give the dealer one shot to fix it right, but if they BS me, or try to charge me, I'm going to do what I proposed above.

[hahnmgh63]

You are exactly right about the suspension. Once the DRC is completely removed, all of the supsension control arms are the exact same as the A6, although a couple of the RS6 bits have a different part #, only becuase a couple of the pieces have stiffer bushings, but other than that, the arms are identical and fully interchangeable.
One thing I've learned though is don't go cheap. The car is expensive and had a complex suspension with the idea to make it better than the A6. Buy a top of the line suspension in order to keep it top of the line handling. As far as the RS4, the RS6 only weights just under 100lbs more so with the right setup it has much of the same capabilities to run around a track faster using the extra Torque to make up for some of the slight time it looses in the corners as the RS4 is balances a little better. Of course the RS4's DRC has been failing miserably too, check out the RS4 forums, a lot of unhappy owners there.

[Innovator]

You are exactly right about the suspension. Once the DRC is completely removed, all of the supsension control arms are the exact same as the A6, although a couple of the RS6 bits have a different part #, only becuase a couple of the pieces have stiffer bushings, but other than that, the arms are identical and fully interchangeable.
One thing I've learned though is don't go cheap. The car is expensive and had a complex suspension with the idea to make it better than the A6. Buy a top of the line suspension in order to keep it top of the line handling. As far as the RS4, the RS6 only weights just under 100lbs more so with the right setup it has much of the same capabilities to run around a track faster using the extra Torque to make up for some of the slight time it looses in the corners as the RS4 is balances a little better. Of course the RS4's DRC has been failing miserably too, check out the RS4 forums, a lot of unhappy owners there. What I meant about going cheap, was not buying a RS6 specific setup...

I am not a fan of coil-over setups. They usually sacrifice ride quality too much . That may not bother a younger man, but I am getting old I suppose. Struts and springs can do the same exact thing for a lot less money, if in fact money is an issue. Perhaps it is not an issue for many of those that own this car, but why spend more than you have to? Larger sway bars will make up for the DRC, although the ride might be harsher on uneven roads.

Anyway,my wife would kill me if I made the car too stiff. This is our new family sedan.. I have a 475 HP stage 3 S4 for Limerock...:race:

[Innovator]

http://www.allshocks.com/bilstein/html/show_shocks.asp?make='AUDI'&model='A6%20Quattro%20Sedan'&year='1997'

[GBG]

I do quite a bit of suspension modifications and repairs on Audis. The A6 4.2 weighs around the same as the RS6 . The struts for an A6 will definately work on a RS6, no question. So will A6 4.2 H&R or Eibach springs for the 4.2... All that, with the sway bars can be obtained for under 1200, and I can install it for 600 plus an alignment... Don't be fooled into paying more for an RS6 specific suspension, because it's baloney... Other than the DRC, this suspension is the same as the A6. If you buy adjustable struts or coil overs, you will always think you could have adjusted them better... I like the fixed style, simple, and nothing to worry about, and totally reliable..

Due to the cars lower height, you must use the Bilstein Sport Strut, because the rod is shorter and will not bottom out with the RS6 lower ride height.

I spoke to the head tech at my dealership yesterday about the DRC. He said that the ride height should not be affected by the DRC pressure. I know that counters what I've read on this forum, but that's what the techs are taught anyway. If the car sits higher after the recall, it's probably due to the position the control arms were in when the were re-torqued. The car sits on the springs, not the shocks..He said that clunking indicates that not enough fluid was injected into the sytem on install.Not so much a pressure issue.. Either way, it seems to me this is a problem that will never go away, and I hate the fact I lack the tools to fix it myself, as that is the only way in my mind the DRC will ever work correctly. I cannot tolerate a rattly clunking car.. And I cannot bring myself to pay the dealer to do what I do all day long...

My DRC replacement strategy is go cheap, yet sufficient. All you really need to do, is replace the struts and sway bars, as long as you are happy with the ride height, as is stock.. Some Bilsteins have grooves cut in them, so you can lower the spring perch, thus lowering the car. If the back sits too low, you can also raise it up if need be..

I want my car to handle crisp, but lets face it, this car is not a race car. It is big and heavy, and will never handle like a RS4 or M3. Sure, you can kill the ride quality and make it ride like a hay wagon, deriving slightly more responsiveness and lateral traction in the process, but IMHO, not enough to make it worth while. The car is not balanced, and that is very hard to overcome..

I'm gonna give the dealer one shot to fix it right, but if they BS me, or try to charge me, I'm going to do what I proposed above.

Innovator,

Thanks for the informative post. What set up would you recommend if the goal is to (1) drop car to lower ride height and (2) stiffen ride so less bounce, less body roll? Thanks GBG

[Innovator]

Innovator,

Thanks for the informative post. What set up would you recommend if the goal is to (1) drop car to lower ride height and (2) stiffen ride so less bounce, less body roll? Thanks GBG
Tirerack.com

H&R springs and Koni adjustable sport struts.. or

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Note: Avg Low 1.5-2.5"F 1.25-1.8"R
</TD><TD class=searchresultnew width=15>
</TD><TD class=searchresultnew vAlign=top align=left>Price: $1,248.00 (kit)
Estimated Availability (http://www.tirerack.com/cart/estimated_avail.html): 12/11/09
<NOBR>Manufacturer Part #: 29482.2</NOBR>
</TD><TD class=searchresultnew vAlign=top width=20 align=left></TD><TD class=searchresultnew bgColor=#dddddd width=152 align=middle><FORM id=suspItem20 name=suspItem20 action=/cart/AddItemServlet><INPUT value=N type=hidden name=shipquote> <INPUT value=false type=hidden name=wishlist> <INPUT value=0 type=hidden name=i1_MapPrice><INPUT value=0 type=hidden name=i1_MarkdownPrice><INPUT value=12/11/09 type=hidden name=i1_StockMessage><INPUT value=29482.2 type=hidden name=i1_PartNumber><INPUT value=1248 type=hidden name=i1_Price><INPUT value=1248 type=hidden name=i1_PrevPrice><INPUT value="Front and Rear" type=hidden name=i1_Location><INPUT value=C type=hidden name=i1_Type><INPUT value=H&R type=hidden name=i1_Make><INPUT value="Street-Perf. Coil-Over" type=hidden name=i1_Model><INPUT value=30781 type=hidden name=i1_SortCode><INPUT value=/images/suspension/search_susp/small/hr_audi_coilovers.jpg type=hidden name=i1_Image><INPUT value="Street-Perf. Coil-Over" type=hidden name=i1_Group><INPUT value=CoilOver type=hidden name=i1_Category><INPUT value=kit type=hidden name=i1_PkgQty><INPUT value=" " type=hidden name=i1_Notes><INPUT value="Avg Low 1.5-2.5" type=hidden name=i1_Lower 1.25-1.8?R? F><INPUT value="Threaded Adjustment" type=hidden name=i1_HeightHsg><INPUT value="Non Adjustable" type=hidden name=i1_DampingAdj><INPUT value=0 type=hidden name=i1_SpecCode><INPUT value=P type=hidden name=i1_PerfCat><INPUT value=/suspension/suspension.jsp?&make=H%26R&model=Street-Perf.+Coil-Over&group=Street-Perf.+Coil-Over&autoMake=Audi&autoModel=A6+4.2&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=&partNum=29482.2&perfCode=P type=hidden name=i1_URL><INPUT value="Front and Rear fitment" type=hidden name=i1_Clarifier> <INPUT value=Audi type=hidden name=autoMake><INPUT value="A6 4.2" type=hidden name=autoModel><INPUT value=2004 type=hidden name=autoYear><INPUT type=hidden name=autoModClar> <INPUT value=/suspension/Susptabl.jsp?autoMake=Audi&autoModel=A6+4.2&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=&brand=all#PremiumH%26RStreet-Perf.+Coil-Over type=hidden name=addedFrom> </FORM></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[GBG]

Tirerack.com

H&R springs and Koni adjustable sport struts.. or

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=760><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=searchhead2new>Product Details (http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?&make=H%26R&model=Street-Perf.+Coil-Over&group=Street-Perf.+Coil-Over&autoMake=Audi&autoModel=A6+4.2&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=&partNum=29482.2&perfCode=P) </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=6>The performance characteristics of this product place it in both Premium and Performance Street categories.</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=searchresultnew width=160>http://www.tirerack.com/images/suspension/search_susp/small/hr_audi_coilovers.jpg (http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?&make=H%26R&model=Street-Perf.+Coil-Over&group=Street-Perf.+Coil-Over&autoMake=Audi&autoModel=A6+4.2&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=&partNum=29482.2&perfCode=P) </TD><TD class=searchresultnew width=226>Front and Rear Fitment Ride Height: Threaded Adjustment
Note: Avg Low 1.5-2.5"F 1.25-1.8"R
</TD><TD class=searchresultnew width=15>
</TD><TD class=searchresultnew vAlign=top align=left>Price: $1,248.00 (kit)
Estimated Availability (http://www.tirerack.com/cart/estimated_avail.html): 12/11/09
<NOBR>Manufacturer Part #: 29482.2</NOBR>
</TD><TD class=searchresultnew vAlign=top width=20 align=left></TD><TD class=searchresultnew bgColor=#dddddd width=152 align=middle><FORM id=suspItem20 name=suspItem20 action=/cart/AddItemServlet><INPUT value=N type=hidden name=shipquote> <INPUT value=false type=hidden name=wishlist> <INPUT value=0 type=hidden name=i1_MapPrice><INPUT value=0 type=hidden name=i1_MarkdownPrice><INPUT value=12/11/09 type=hidden name=i1_StockMessage><INPUT value=29482.2 type=hidden name=i1_PartNumber><INPUT value=1248 type=hidden name=i1_Price><INPUT value=1248 type=hidden name=i1_PrevPrice><INPUT value="Front and Rear" type=hidden name=i1_Location><INPUT value=C type=hidden name=i1_Type><INPUT value=H&R type=hidden name=i1_Make><INPUT value="Street-Perf. Coil-Over" type=hidden name=i1_Model><INPUT value=30781 type=hidden name=i1_SortCode><INPUT value=/images/suspension/search_susp/small/hr_audi_coilovers.jpg type=hidden name=i1_Image><INPUT value="Street-Perf. Coil-Over" type=hidden name=i1_Group><INPUT value=CoilOver type=hidden name=i1_Category><INPUT value=kit type=hidden name=i1_PkgQty><INPUT value=" " type=hidden name=i1_Notes><INPUT value="Avg Low 1.5-2.5" type=hidden name=i1_Lower 1.25-1.8?R? F><INPUT value="Threaded Adjustment" type=hidden name=i1_HeightHsg><INPUT value="Non Adjustable" type=hidden name=i1_DampingAdj><INPUT value=0 type=hidden name=i1_SpecCode><INPUT value=P type=hidden name=i1_PerfCat><INPUT value=/suspension/suspension.jsp?&make=H%26R&model=Street-Perf.+Coil-Over&group=Street-Perf.+Coil-Over&autoMake=Audi&autoModel=A6+4.2&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=&partNum=29482.2&perfCode=P type=hidden name=i1_URL><INPUT value="Front and Rear fitment" type=hidden name=i1_Clarifier> <INPUT value=Audi type=hidden name=autoMake><INPUT value="A6 4.2" type=hidden name=autoModel><INPUT value=2004 type=hidden name=autoYear><INPUT type=hidden name=autoModClar> <INPUT value=/suspension/Susptabl.jsp?autoMake=Audi&autoModel=A6+4.2&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=&brand=all#PremiumH%26RStreet-Perf.+Coil-Over type=hidden name=addedFrom> </FORM></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Thanks very much for the recommendation. GBG

[micdee]

Well I found this thread a little later after I already posted my questions.

But as my questions fit better into this thread I will add my questions here again and we can continue in this thread.


:hey: Ladies and Gents,

I have been member of this forum for some years as I owned a S6 (build 1999) for a couple of years and recently bought myself a RS6 (2003)
I live in the Netherlands, that is Europe. (so excuse me for my language ;-) )
Now I found out that my DRC is not what it supposed to be.
So I am in the decision period what to do: repair of the DRC or replacing the entire DRC for shocks and springs.

I did try a search action on DRC and replacement but thus far all I read is that the DRC kind of uhmmm is of poor quality and needed to be repaired.
Also that some of you replaced the DRC with a complete set: KW set (variant 3) and also H&R, but with the latter I think to remember they used H&R springs to replace the OEM springs.

So I'm calling in your help about which mileage or km's you made with the new DRC struts installed before you needed to replace them again.

What mileage did you do with the after market shocks and springs like the KW v3.

Does the "rideability" of the RS6 change completely with the after market set.

And when I decide to do the repair is it better to renew all 4 of the struts at the same time?
I know the right rear is leaking som oil (according to the Audi engineer the leakage was not a problem. Uh huh?!?! Now I know better)
May be a better question is what should I have repaired of the DRC? (I do not know if there was some sort of recall action by Audi in Europe and if this Audi has been back for it; it is not in that "service-thing" I got with the RS6)
Thank you for any help as I could not find any on the Duth fora/forums/forea?!?! :vhmmm:

The answers I already got I will quote in here as well:


This is just my personal opinion and experience, but I would just remove your DRC system and go the coil over route. I have the KW V3's and have done about 35k miles on them with no problems. The Kw's right out of the box offer a comparable ride to the DRC, but I have mine set a little firmer. If I were you, I would look into the H&R coil over setup, as it should be available to you over in Europe (we can't get them here for the RS6). The H&R's are much cheaper than the KW's, and I've read that the ride is more compliant.


Also, I said it in that thread, and I'll say it again, I don't like the idea of installing a Koni shock and H&R spring combo on an RS6. That setup is not DOT or TUV approved for the car, and I would assume you have yearly inspections over there. I don't think it will pass with that set up.


Micdee, I would check with the dealer to see if your car has had recent DRC work done, how many miles on the car? There was a complete DRC recall in North America but I'm not sure about Europe? Maybe another European member could chime in. Since Netherlands is part of the European Union I would think Audi would have to treat all members the same if there is a recall going on over there.
As for aftermarket solutions, known ones are KW V3's, H&R, Bilsteing, and Ohlins. I can recommend the KW's as that is the route I went with and I haven't heard of any complaints about the KW's or the H&R's. I have heard good & bad about the Bilstein & the Ohlins. H&R also offer a spring replacement for the stock factory DRC springs which lower the car a little (2c.m.) and increase the spring rate slightly. These springs go over the stock DRC so you may still end up with DRC problems.
Overall, a working DRC is a good driving system with little compromise in ride & handling. I didn't like it mainly for reliability and the ride height. A good aftermarket suspension that is fully adjustable can do better on the track but then it will be much more harsh on the street, you can soften it up a little for better (not as quite as good as a good DRC) street ride while still being good in the performance role. My KW's make the car handle better than the DRC was but are a little harsher on rough roads, most of my roads are pretty good around here but if they weren't I may have stayed with the DRC and worked with the dealer to get the ride height better, at least while it was still on warranty. Let us know what you find out and decide, I'm sure some other members will chime in too. Welcome to the list.

[micdee]

Tomorrow I will go to an Audi Dealer nearby and I hope we'll might be able to check if the replacement has been done already.
All I know is that the DRC has been refilled (as the seller told me)
But when the recall has not been done yet, and there has been a recall for this in Europe, I do not think Audi will be very keen to do this on my car now.

So what I still would like to know is what mileage of km's owners have done with the replaced /repaired DRC?

When you replace the DRC (completely) do you need to do more then only the absorbers with springs.

And at this moment I am not looking for lowering the rideheight. I need to go over 10 speedbumps to get out of my neighbourhood and some are a real pain in the ......
before the RS6 I had a Golf IV R32 and with that car I hit the exhaust at some of thise bumps even with a speed of 3mph. With the RS6 I have had no hits yet.

[hahnmgh63]

This won't really answer your question but I replace my DRC with KW's at about 90K Kilometers. My DRC was still working (I seemed to be only 1 of a couple that had working DRC at this mileage without a trip to the dealer or three...four...) but a slight seep was showing on the front struts. I did the recall first and the car was little firmer but sat too high in the rear. I did a return trip to the dealer which lowered the rear a little but still too high for me. As I mentioned, the dealership is about a 3hr round trip for me and I was fed up with it so I installed the KW's and have been smiling every since. My car now sits about 1.5" lower than originally but I too travel or a couple of speedbumps and nothing rubs at this height but I think the car looks better and handles better than ever before. The nice thing about the adjustability is after originally lowering it 2" I decided to raise it slightly and it was no problem. As Innovator said the RS6 is no race car for sure but between the KW's and a good alignment with ride height & weight balance (can't be done on a DRC or non adjustable suspension car) and a few selected mods: Lightweight battery (saves 16+ Kilos), lightweight forged BBS wheels, etc..., the car handle pretty dam good and you can see a few RS6's on Youtube tracking and blowing M3's off the road.

[micdee]

@ hahnmgh63 : thank you for your insight. Hopefully others can tell me their experience.

Perhaps you can tell me this: do I need to replace more then only the struts and springs?

[hahnmgh63]

I did replace the upper strut mounts while I was at it as Audi didn't replace those during the recall. The front and rear upper strut/shock mounts are fairly cheap. About 6 months later I replaced my upper & lower control arms as they were quite worn, especially the top inner control arm bushings, they were shot. All C5 A6's seem to wear out the bushing fairly quick 60~90,000 Kilometers.

[micdee]

Well it seems there has not been a recall in Europe, or at least not in the Netherlands.
After a phonecall with an Audi specialist and my visit to the Audi dealer I decided to go for a renewal of the DRC.

I kind of want to keep the RS6 as near to the Audi concept as possible. So all I hope is that the repaired DRC will hold for a couple or more years.
I will have a 2 yr warranty on the repair. And I go for a 4 struts renewal.

[hahnmgh63]

That is all the North American recall replaced, the two front struts and the two rear shocks. The original springs, central valves, and the upper strut/shock mounts were all re-used. Some expensive work and cost for all, and it needs to be done right which was also part of the problem here. Most dealers didn't get it right the first or second time as the cars didn't sit right or the pressure was wrong, all because of improper training. Many cars had their suspensions tightened down as they were lifted in the air? Any good mechanic knows that a suspension with rubber bushings needs to have the car weighted before you tourqe the suspension down, the factory shop manual even mentions this but many shops here didn't do it. The recall here only gives a one year warranty so if your getting two years that is a little better. Good luck with it if you do choose to go this route.

[micdee]

I hoped to have some more reactions, but as I did not like the situation with the suspension I made the decision to go for the DRC repair/renewal.

They say, they have done some more repairs (on a couple of RS4's), so hopefully they do know what they have to do.
There are a few things I will mention before they start: same rideheight as it is now and to replace the upper strut mounts.

I will keep you informed. Repair is in three weeks.

Tnx for the effort. I know what I will do when the renewal will proof to be a mistake of me.

[micdee]

Guess what, after I made the appointment to repair the DRC I still kept on reading about the DRC and the problems.
I start doubting more and more. So I called the shop that sells the KW 3V sets and they told me every V3 set is hand made and will go for about 100k km and they will fit it for the same price as the repair for the DRC so.........................

Yes I changed my mind. I will call Audi on monday to cancel the appointment and when that is done, I'll make the appointment for the KW V3 set and hopefully we can do the strut mounts and H&R stabilizer at the same time.....

I hope Audi have not yet ordered the struts......

[hahnmgh63]

KW's lifetime warranty and a little Google searching looking for feedback from others was a definite selling point for me + the height adjustability. It beats Audi's 12mo/12,000mi warranty anyday. How many of our N.A. listers that had the recall done ended up happy, and that is just the initial with the ride height? Many had to make multiple trips to the dealer to get it solved, some never had it solved. And how many have already had problems, not a lot but it has only been about a year for most.

[Aronis]

Innovator,

When my DRC went four years ago (the first reported failure on the East Coast), I asked if the regular shocks from the A6 would fit and they said yes, But would only change over if I paid 100% of the cost! And as the car was still a lease car, said I would have to pay to put it all back to DRC before turning in the car! I was close to doing that change over until I stumbled on a better dealership with a better RS6 mechanic.

Mike

[SteveKen]

Innovator,

When my DRC went four years ago (the first reported failure on the East Coast), I asked if the regular shocks from the A6 would fit and they said yes,...

Can you post or pm me any other details on this? I'm extremely curious and have a set of S6 and A6 suspensions lying around. Even though I'm not fond of it, I've been known to do some trial and error, so . . .

[ttboost]

Does anyone know the weight savings in removing the DRC and installing coilovers, if any?

[hahnmgh63]

I posted the weight difference when I did mine a year and a half ago. I don't recall exactly what it was but I want to say it was at least 20~30lbs, maybe more. Should be somewhere in the archives. I'll see if I can search my own posts? I removed the shocks/struts, central valves, and all of the hydraulic lines.

[ttboost]

Do you remember how long it took? Are all the ancilliary parts located in the stock shock locations? Or are there parts hidden all over and under the car?

[hahnmgh63]

Fairly easy to get at. The Central valves are bolted on to the front side of the spare tire well. From the C.Valves there are two criss crossing hydraulic (exact same as hard brake lines) criss crossing to each of the front struts. I unbolted the central valves and pulled all of the hydraulic lines, actually cut the lines in multiple places to pull them out easier. Some of the lines in the rear pass behind the fender liners and are easier to pull when the fender liners (rear) are removed. It is much easier to do on a lift.

[ttboost]

I will likely do this and bag the DRC as I am still not sure if my DRC was updated. Not sure what coilovers to go with yet, although the KW clearly are the most popular. My car rides OK and handles OK on the back roads, at a slow to medium pace. High speed corners are borderline frightening.

[hahnmgh63]

Just found my old post, the KW's come to 18lbs less than the DRC (shocks, struts, Central valves & lines). The KW's were about the 2nd replacement specifically for the RS6 to come out after the Bilsteins, they are the most expensive out there but in my opinion they are worth the cost. It's an expensive car so I figure I would go with the best quality parts and I will never worry about the DRC again when I'm going around that corner at 9/10ths or better and hit a little dip and the DRC decides to act up. My only worry on the car now for a poor design is the tranmission.

[ttboost]

Just found my old post, the KW's come to 18lbs less than the DRC (shocks, struts, Central valves & lines). The KW's were about the 2nd replacement specifically for the RS6 to come out after the Bilsteins, they are the most expensive out there but in my opinion they are worth the cost. It's an expensive car so I figure I would go with the best quality parts and I will never worry about the DRC again when I'm going around that corner at 9/10ths or better and hit a little dip and the DRC decides to act up. My only worry on the car now for a poor design is the tranmission.


Thanks for the info. 18lbs is 18lbs and yes, I agree. As I learn and drive my car more, I am coming to understand it's shortcomings. I think coilovers and a torque converter are on my short list.

[Brav]

Guess what, after I made the appointment to repair the DRC I still kept on reading about the DRC and the problems.
I start doubting more and more. So I called the shop that sells the KW 3V sets and they told me every V3 set is hand made and will go for about 100k km and they will fit it for the same price as the repair for the DRC so.........................

Yes I changed my mind. I will call Audi on monday to cancel the appointment and when that is done, I'll make the appointment for the KW V3 set and hopefully we can do the strut mounts and H&R stabilizer at the same time.....

I hope Audi have not yet ordered the struts......

Please tell me Audi is paying for the KWs.

[4everRS]

I thought the DRC campaign was over in the US?
Please tell me Audi is paying for the KWs.

[Brav]

I was told I could still get DRC. I wont do it.

[4everRS]

You mean you can get it fixed under the recall on Audi's dime still?
I was told I could still get DRC. I wont do it.

[Brav]

Thats what I was told..

[Innovator]

I had both PSS9s, and KWs. They both made the car ride like a hay wagon. Soo.. I got some used complete strut units off of an A6 for needed parts, with new Bilstein Sport struts, new mounts and H&R springs for an A6 4.2, H&R front and rear Bar, and I'm loving it. It really rides like stock. I had the struts grooved to fine tune the height. I could have saved a boat load of money if I just did the last thing first!

[ben916]

Please tell me Audi is paying for the KWs.

If so, I would be interesting in this information :)

[Brav]

I had both PSS9s, and KWs. They both made the car ride like a hay wagon. Soo.. I got some used complete strut units off of an A6 for needed parts, with new Bilstein Sport struts, new mounts and H&R springs for an A6 4.2, H&R front and rear Bar, and I'm loving it. It really rides like stock. I had the struts grooved to fine tune the height. I could have saved a boat load of money if I just did the last thing first!

So what was your total cost and time investment?

[micdee]

Please tell me Audi is paying for the KWs.

Nope, I have to pay the 2100 euro's myself; this has to do with the fact that according to the Audi dealer there has been no recall for the DRC in the Netherlands.
The car was checked in the Audi system and all recalls for this car should show up, and it doesnt matter if the recall was initiated by Audi 7 years earlier, when there would have been a recall and my car hadnt gone in for it, I could have it done now (comprendé??). There are no recalls recorded for the RS6 in the Netherlands.

But I will try to get at least a small portion back from the Audi dealer that did the buyers check for me.
the mechanic then said to me I had only 1 strut showing some vage oil leakage (sweating we call this in Dutch) and this was normal for struts of this age and no problem.
Lateron when I explained this to a different Audi specialist, he told me this was NOT OK for these struts.

With the deassambling of the right front strut we found out that there was a cut of 7mm in the flex hose, so I had no pressure in the entire DRC system.

I am very pleased with the KW set, always better then no suspension of course...
Only thing I do not understand and have to check with KW supplier is that after adjusting the initial rideheight during the assembly the rear lowered 3cm!! and the front 1cm (average)
As where KW indicates that during the first months the set would settle and could lower between 0,5 - 1 cm. So this puzzles me why the rear of the avant lowered 300% more?
Anyone of the KW drivers experienced the same????

[Innovator]

So what was your total cost and time investment?


Well, my cost will be slightly less than yours, plus I do the work at my shop. If you go to Tireracks website, they have everything you need. Should cost around a grand for everything. We charge 500 for the install, including the alignment. This is a better option IMO than any coil-over hay-wagon setup.

[Innovator]

Nope, I have to pay the 2100 euro's myself; this has to do with the fact that according to the Audi dealer there has been no recall for the DRC in the Netherlands.
The car was checked in the Audi system and all recalls for this car should show up, and it doesnt matter if the recall was initiated by Audi 7 years earlier, when there would have been a recall and my car hadnt gone in for it, I could have it done now (comprendé??). There are no recalls recorded for the RS6 in the Netherlands.

But I will try to get at least a small portion back from the Audi dealer that did the buyers check for me.
the mechanic then said to me I had only 1 strut showing some vage oil leakage (sweating we call this in Dutch) and this was normal for struts of this age and no problem.
Lateron when I explained this to a different Audi specialist, he told me this was NOT OK for these struts.

With the deassambling of the right front strut we found out that there was a cut of 7mm in the flex hose, so I had no pressure in the entire DRC system.

I am very pleased with the KW set, always better then no suspension of course...
Only thing I do not understand and have to check with KW supplier is that after adjusting the initial rideheight during the assembly the rear lowered 3cm!! and the front 1cm (average)
As where KW indicates that during the first months the set would settle and could lower between 0,5 - 1 cm. So this puzzles me why the rear of the avant lowered 300% more?
Anyone of the KW drivers experienced the same????
YES! that kept happening to me with both the PSS9s and the KWs. Those little coils aren't up to the task of supporting our Beasts... You will have to tweak it several times before it stabilizes. That is why I am against using a coil over setup unless racing is a priority, and ride comfort is not.

[MaxRS6]

^^- I've had no issues with the KWs. It has maintained the same ride height for approx. 3 years without issue and is rock solid. Ride comfort is not my main priority. It is great having the various options and an end user can select the system that is right for their individual needs/wants.

[Innovator]

I had no issues either, aside from the rear sagging a little. I just hated how the car rode with them.

[Brav]

It depends on when you measured it.. if you did it just after lowering the car off the lift, it will be very high. You should drive it around pretty hard for a few miles, then bring it back, then measure for the baseline "post install.". THEN after driving a long while, your settling should only be 1cm or so.

[twinsteve]

I had no issues either, aside from the rear sagging a little. I just hated how the car rode with them.

how did it ride?

[Innovator]

Like a hay wagon. Like all coil-overs regardless of the setting. IMO, they are not appropriate for a large heavy car. You sacrifice too much ride comfort ..

[ben916]

I had both PSS9s, and KWs. They both made the car ride like a hay wagon. Soo.. I got some used complete strut units off of an A6 for needed parts, with new Bilstein Sport struts, new mounts and H&R springs for an A6 4.2, H&R front and rear Bar, and I'm loving it. It really rides like stock. I had the struts grooved to fine tune the height. I could have saved a boat load of money if I just did the last thing first!


Well, my cost will be slightly less than yours, plus I do the work at my shop. If you go to Tireracks website, they have everything you need. Should cost around a grand for everything. We charge 500 for the install, including the alignment. This is a better option IMO than any coil-over hay-wagon setup.

Innovator,

You are the second person that has stated, from an educated experience and prior purchase, that they don't care for the ride quality, or lack of, in coilovers regardless of brand.

Could you list these items that you used for your suspension?
This might be helpful for those that feel the same about coilovers as you do, and it might possibly help some in their decisions on aftermarket suspension components.

Stasis Motor Sport suspension with Ohlins reservoir = $3800
H&R coilovers = $1700
KWv3 = $2200 - $2500
PSS9 = haven't found a price for these yet.

Hotchkis sways @ $425 local no shipping :)

Almost as challenging as deciding which tune to go with...

[JSRS6]

PSS9 = haven't found a price for these yet.


I paid about 1800 new for mine shipped.

[JSRS6]

Almost as challenging as deciding which tune to go with...

I wouldnt go THAT far, Ben...:hihi:

[RS6Steve]

I have Bilstein PSS9's fitted to mine along with H&R ARBs as they are slightly stiffer than the Hotchkiss. I'm so happy I don't have the DRC headache anymore!

Just remember to change the top mounts at the sometime.

[ben916]

I wouldnt go THAT far, Ben...:hihi:

I have to toss in SOME ambiguity into the mix :)

Top Mounts would occur at the same time, at least that is the plan

[hahnmgh63]

I'm sorry but Innovator, if you want a car that rides better than the performance minded RS6 then there is the A6 or S6 but there suspension isn't made to handle the same types of demands / responses that the DRC (in good working order) or Coilovers properly adjusted can attain. Why pay the money for a RS6 then degrade the suspension to one less capable? There are probably 20% of the forum members here with aftermarket coilovers and I don't think that any others I have heard on the list say they would go back to the DRC or want a lower grade suspension? There have been some complaints with certain brands, and some of those can be attributed to improper adjustment but most are satisifed or more than satisfied. All coilovers will settle and any good shop or mechanic installing as set should explain that to the customer. You adjust a little high then have the customer bring the car back in a month or so for a final adjustment, it is a fairly easy procedure to do, just threaded collars but it takes a little time as you may have to go all around the car a couple of times as once you raise one corner, the weight balance will change and you may have to go back to the other corner you did before and so on. All spring manufacturers list the settling issue, maybe there are some out there that pre-settle there springs on a spring dyno, I know of some raceshops that do it.

[Innovator]

I'm sorry but Innovator, if you want a car that rides better than the performance minded RS6 then there is the A6 or S6 but there suspension isn't made to handle the same types of demands / responses that the DRC (in good working order) or Coilovers properly adjusted can attain. Why pay the money for a RS6 then degrade the suspension to one less capable? There are probably 20% of the forum members here with aftermarket coilovers and I don't think that any others I have heard on the list say they would go back to the DRC or want a lower grade suspension? There have been some complaints with certain brands, and some of those can be attributed to improper adjustment but most are satisifed or more than satisfied. All coilovers will settle and any good shop or mechanic installing as set should explain that to the customer. You adjust a little high then have the customer bring the car back in a month or so for a final adjustment, it is a fairly easy procedure to do, just threaded collars but it takes a little time as you may have to go all around the car a couple of times as once you raise one corner, the weight balance will change and you may have to go back to the other corner you did before and so on. All spring manufacturers list the settling issue, maybe there are some out there that pre-settle there springs on a spring dyno, I know of some raceshops that do it.

Honestly I would expect those that already spent a bunch of money on coil overs to respond as you have. What I am trying to elude, is that coil overs are not the only alternative to DRC, still do not do what DRC does, and usually if not always,severly degrade the way the car rides. Bilstein Struts and H&R bars are hardly a downgrade to the cheaply made DRC components anyway. In fact, they are a significant upgrade.Please keep in mind that this is what I do for a living, so this isn't my first time around the block. Still, I am guilty of buying into the KW hype initially, but I assure you, there are other , perhaps better alternatives.. I am only trying to help.

Rick

[RS6Steve]

If DRC was reliable I would have stayed with it, without a doubt. We are now on v3 DRC and it still breaks!

Over hear most fit Bilstein PSS9's or H&R, there are a few with KWv3's also. Recently some have fitted the FK Koni kit as there are a lot cheaper! However I don't know anyone who has been using them long team and how they hold up with the 2 ton beast constantly battering them.

Like brakes and tyres on the 6, I would not skimp on the suspension....

[micdee]

I do not want to pollute this thread with unnecessary questions, but I see different names come along in random order: like struts, coil-overs and bars. And as I am not a native speaking English/US-man, it starts to dazzle me.

As far as I know/understand "coil-over" is a shockabsorber together with a coil and as far as I understand from this forum, you "guys" call shockabsorbers also STRUTS right?
So in my opinion that would make a KW v3 set also a coil-over but it has more options on the "strut" for further adjustment.
But Bilsteins and HR are then also coil-overs and then I come to the conclusion that there is only one kind of alternative for the DRC:
new set of coil-overs of whichever brand as you will always have to have a shock absorber and a coil.....

Please en light me or tell me to shut up :D

[hahnmgh63]

You are correct Micdee. Are cars actually have Mcpherson struts in the front & shocks with coils in the rear. It has almost become and industry standard to call "Coilovers" the same as we have but in respect to fully adjustable ones as far as ride height. "Coilovers" can be Shock/Shock or Strut/Shock with adjustable spring perches, usually adjusted by threaded collars (one of the strongest designs), or by separated knotches for height on the piston rod shaft. So, H&R, Bilstein, KWV3's, and Stasis (Ohlin's) are all Strut (front)/Shock (rear) designs with adjustable spring perches, and in I think all of these cases, adjustable for bounce, rebound, etc...

[MaxRS6]

Honestly I would expect those that already spent a bunch of money on coil overs to respond as you have. ....Rick

Actually- I did not pay one dime for the Kws. AoA paid for them and the install.... :) I stand by they have been a great solution and quality product for myself. There are a variety of systems out there obviously for individual's wants and needs. It is great you have presented another option for those in the process to give consideration, and is part of what makes this forum valuable.


I gotta go hop on the hay wagon for dinner....

[Innovator]

They had already done the DRC upgrade and wouldn't pay for mine.