My new and improved DRC (rant)

[SAF]

I made a similar post on another thread, but I'm hoping this post is more visible to the people working under the worldwide VW/Audi umbrella.

Below is a letter sent by Audi/UK to an owner who had been through multiple DRC failures and was looking for relief. Seems very similar to the responses I got from AoA for years. It is dated February '09.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3878458248_dcecc5625e.jpg

Now here is the letter that RS6 owners in the US received from AoA THE SAME MONTH!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2665/3877683869_5512d2fc94.jpg

Sadly, this makes quite obvious the fact that there is ZERO COMMUNICATION within this company. While one division is mailing letters telling the owners in the US that the DRC problem has been identified and our cars will be getting new components, another division is mailing letters claiming they are unaware of an issue! I can't exclaim WTF loud enough! In this day of instant worldwide communication, both socially and professionally, I am stunned that this lack of company wide communication is not being rectified. It is going to drag this company down on a scale larger than sudden acceleration ever could.

Does Audi realize how frustrating it is to go into a service visit knowing more about the problem and the fix than their own SAs or techs do? And how do you think it makes them feel when they have to beg for information from the corporate lofts only to find out we were right all along? This has been the case for many issues over the years. And that unhealthy situation is like a cancer growing within the ranks of Audi, slowly killing it.

Back at the beginning of the year, just as legal action was on the horizon in the US, Audi coincidently stepped up with the DRC "service action" letter, promising to install new struts that wouldn't leak. After years of playing dumb, it was a relief to see Audi finally acknowledge this problem. It looked like we, the folks who had purchased what was just a few short years ago Audi's flagship car, were going to have our cars made right.

Well so much for the frustration being over. Maybe I was cynical, dubious, suspicious, whatever, but months ago my very first questions to the Audi RS advocates about this "action", both in writing and on the phone, were:

A) How long is the warranty? and
B) after replacing my central valves four times, why aren't you including them one last time when you install these new shocks?

The valves weren't failing but they came factory loaded and were a required replacement when the system was broken into. Why "fix" that replacement procedure if it ain't broke? Why create a weak link in the chain by breaking into the pressurized system and then expecting a tech to try to do what was previously only done by the valve manufacturer??

First answer was that the new parts and install would be covered for 12y/12k, a typical service warranty. To me, after all the inconvenience we have had to go through and months I've been without my car, seeing AoA expecting to wipe their collective hands of us a short 12 months after this "action" is just plain insulting. We should have at least a 3y/36k warranty on this, especially since the original set up that was covered under a total new car warranty began failing repeatedly within that same period! Hell, my subsequent repairs only lasted from 1 day to 11 months! A 12 month warranty on a new and unproven replacement is totally unacceptable.

Surprise!! Guess what? We now see that the "labor" part of this equation is leading to all kinds of incorrectly completed installations and cars are having to be brought back in to (hopefully) be done correctly the second time around! Who knows how long an improperly installed and recharged system will take to break down? I sure don't, but I'm betting some could take over a year. Then it's our problem again! Sound familiar?

Which gets me back to my central valve question. Adding insult to injury is the fact that AoA is just tossing these struts out to dealerships that may never have even seen an RS6, let alone be familiar with the DRC system's history or mechanics. And on top of that, they don't include two easily swapped out central valves so that we can basically start over with all new parts...instead they try to save a few more dollars by sending along a new "tool", a chemistry set of tubes, valves, guages and fittings for the techs to learn on while they attempt to make a previously factory sealed component reusable. This is the extent of stepping up to make our investments whole again? FAIL.

I have always had faith in my RS tech and I'm sure that he made sure he got mine right. After all, he's had the DRC in and out 5 times now. Touch wood, my retrofit is holding its own and riding like it should after a couple of months. But after reading all these stories about leaks, bad height adjustments, unconnected parts etc, I am afraid that down the road many of us will be seeing letters similar to the one above, only this time they will be talking about issues with the new system.

Audi, if you want to be a long term player in the worldwide luxury car market, get your worldwide act together! In spite of our exhaustive experiences, your loyal customers seem more interested in seeing you get control of this issue than you do.

[hahnmgh63]

SAF, what part of my DRC would you like? Shock & Struts(new)? Old central valves? Springs (original). Springs would add a lot of weight. The whole works comes to about 68# without packaging as I weighted what I pulled out compared to what I put in (KW's). hahnmgh@yahoo.com or 360-649-1289. Is Woodlands down by Laredo?

[SAF]

I am north of Houston. I will try to give you a call tomorrow. Thanks!

[s42ski]

Well I got mine back today so I will add - first off the ride height was correct and the tire pressure was where I had left it at install (47psi all around). But the car felt soft at the rear and has more rattles all coming from the rear suspension. :vgrumpy: Not the clunk in the trunk but something is not correct. I asked about it and they told me I needed new brakes.....

So I will do the brakes - have new rotors from ECS at about $1500 with SS lines and Posiquiet pads. Then it will go back to the dealer for inspection.

Car felt firmer with the old (not failed yet) DRC:doh:

Why did I get this "fixed" :doh::doh:

In the meantime I got a platinum fidelity warranty for 5 yrs 60k so I will be keeping her for a while!

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

from what i can say right now, there are 13 reported RS6 wihtin the USA after the DRC campaign that still have problems- so far. First analysis show that the complaints are caused by assembly fault-, and this without exception.

Now it is up to verify why some techs do a proper job, while other continue to fail... :vhmmm:

Qisha

[SAF]

Quisha, I am happy to see that someone over there is monitoring those numbers. Do you know how many have been done so far?

Too bad a memo with the new tool and replacement parts didn't emphasize strongly enough the importance of viewing any available training info online. Maybe it should be made mandatory? Or at the least, techs who are preparing to do this install should be told to contact someone at AoA that is familiar with the install so they can verbally go over the procedure in depth before proceeding.

[SAF]

It looks like the faulty installation issue is continuing to show itself after the fact.

Given that not every RS6 owner participates on this (or any) board, I would guess that more of this type of thing is happening than we read about, and that the 13 cases Qisha is aware of at this time is way behind the actual number.

The expense of all this fixing the fix has got to be showing up on someone's desk!

[Hy Octane]

I thought the new toolkit made it either pass or fail....
Guess our USA techs just dont get it.
Actually, I'd bet that the reson is that many techs just dont understand the principle of how this system is supposed to work and why. They just stick new shocks on, pump the handle and voila. heres your car.
If they understood the need to evacuate the system and make sure no air gets in there and why this is so important, then we'd probably see better results.. But if they dont understand the theory behind DRC, theres no hope of getting it right.

[hahnmgh63]

I agree with Hy Octane, they seem to be more of Service Techs than real mechanics. Everyone has known for years and it is in all service manuals that you don't tighten bolts on the suspension until it is at ride height and with the weight on the wheels. I can't believe these "Techs" were tightening everything down with the car in the air and weight off the wheels. S42ski, check your rear swaybar mounts also, my left downlink wasn't rebolted when I got my car back and it was surprising how bad that made the car handle and the noise it made. As I've already said, I'm very happy now with my KW's and I have no regrets, just took the car out to lunch from work and I smile everytime I go around a corner, brake, accelerate.

[DonS]

Hi Quisha,

Thanks for your informative posts on RS6.com!

Do you know the factory specification for ride height on our RS6's?

Thanks in advance.

Lastly, I tried to PM you, but your mailbox is full.

[DHall1]

You noted in the other thread.....

14.5 front
15.25 rear

If the above is correct then your car is too high. Something is screwed up on the DRC or suspension arms.

Its 8th grade mechanics to torque suspension bolts in the final and loaded position. How can Audi Certified techs make this critical error. In addition to the air that may be in your lines making all kinds of issues within a closed and compressed system. My god.

Can anyone at Audi ensure workmanship standards at dealerships. Your killing the brand by crappy dealers making idiot mistakes.




Well I got mine back today so I will add - first off the ride height was correct and the tire pressure was where I had left it at install (47psi all around). But the car felt soft at the rear and has more rattles all coming from the rear suspension. :vgrumpy: Not the clunk in the trunk but something is not correct. I asked about it and they told me I needed new brakes.....

So I will do the brakes - have new rotors from ECS at about $1500 with SS lines and Posiquiet pads. Then it will go back to the dealer for inspection.

Car felt firmer with the old (not failed yet) DRC:doh:

Why did I get this "fixed" :doh::doh:

In the meantime I got a platinum fidelity warranty for 5 yrs 60k so I will be keeping her for a while!

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

after taking a little insight the "ride hight issues" are referable to the fact that some Dealers did not pressurize the DRC system to factory spec (16 Bar/232 PSI). Obviously those Techs had the abstruse idea the more pressure they put on, the better the system works. From the reportet cars -after the inproper DRC repair- the pressure has been verifiable raised to 20 (!) Bar/ 290 (!) PSI. This also lead to the Central Valve blast reported on a RS4. Even under the most extreme long-terme testing procedures this was not achieved before.

A disregard of the repair guide is something nobody would have expected, to be honest. The fact that a qualified Tech does not comprehend a mechanic/hydraulic system and ignores precautions on over- pressuring the system is beyond me. :nana:

The ray of hope is, only a small number of Dealers apply there "own knowledge" over factory specs... investigation is in progress.

Qisha

[DonS]

Quisha,

Thanks for the information. What is the factory specification for ride height? My Bentley book and local Service Advisor could not come up with an answer.



DHALL1: Actually, I don't know. I posted what my Bentley book shows for Allroads and some odd measurement for the A6.

[quote=DHall1;170082]You noted in the other thread.....
14.5 front 15.25 rear

[Hy Octane]

Thats the problem.. Many techs here arent qualified and all of them have never seen or ridden an RS6 with a DRC working the way it is supposed to. Thus, they know not if they have fixed it properly.
How firm is the DRC supposed to be?
How many rebounds?
How much vertical travel should there be when you push on the front fender?
Should it be at least as firm a ride as an S4?

Nobody here has any of these answers.. They have only driven broken ones so they have nothing to go on as far as how the DRC should feel when done properly.

I have had to learn these things so I can instruct my techs in what to do and what to look for. All I wanted to do was buy a great car and enjoy it.
Having said that, mine goes in next week for its DRC replacement. They have already done over 20 and no complaints.. so hopefully this will be it for the DRC story.
We'll see..

[STaley]

My RS6 still sits at my shop while I decide which dealer in Houston that I am going to take it to. One of my old technicians Juan Rodriguez works at Momentum and he is a fantastic Audi technician. I have spoken with him several times about the repair/replacement.... I just do not want to be the first one he does.

I'm due for my 60k timing belt service, so I think I will do that first next month then decide where to go.

Mike

[STaley]

Now that I just posted that.. I really wished that I could do the install myself, and wrecker the car to the dealer and use their machine to evac recharge! Likely that will happen. But I guarantee I would install them correctly the first time.

[DHall1]

A couple of notes.

You should not lower weight on a new DRC before bleed/repressure.

60k timing belt service? Schedule calls for 35k and 75k with no time limit.




Now that I just posted that.. I really wished that I could do the install myself, and wrecker the car to the dealer and use their machine to evac recharge! Likely that will happen. But I guarantee I would install them correctly the first time.

[DHall1]

Qisha,

Thank you for the update and honest reply.

This information makes good sense. Please get these dealers in step with proper repair techniques. RS6 customers are the future for Audi. We appreciate the design of excellence.

My R8 fund is building and I hope the carbon issue is fixed when its for my R8.

Cheers for Audi N Scottsdale and the service staff. They have my business locked up.

Cheers
Dave


Dear Friends,

after taking a little insight the "ride hight issues" are referable to the fact that some Dealers did not pressurize the DRC system to factory spec (16 Bar/232 PSI). Obviously those Techs had the abstruse idea the more pressure they put on, the better the system works. From the reportet cars -after the inproper DRC repair- the pressure has been verifiable raised to 20 (!) Bar/ 290 (!) PSI. This also lead to the Central Valve blast reported on a RS4. Even under the most extreme long-terme testing procedures this was not achieved before.

A disregard of the repair guide is something nobody would have expected, to be honest. The fact that a qualified Tech does not comprehend a mechanic/hydraulic system and ignores precautions on over- pressuring the system is beyond me. :nana:

The ray of hope is, only a small number of Dealers apply there "own knowledge" over factory specs... investigation is in progress.

Qisha

[SAF]

STaley, I would suggest you take your car to Millennium Audi. They did mine repeatedly with the old failing parts and have now done at least three or four of the new applications, without incident. In other words, the RS tech there is quite familiar with the DRC system and the tools used to pressurize it. I wouldn't (and haven't) let anyone else touch my car since I've owned it.

Qisha, thank you very much for the update. As I said earlier, a simple communication breakdown has let an otherwise well-intentioned attempt to make our cars whole turn into (for some) a customer satisfaction nightmare.

[Keyser Soze]

STaley, I would suggest you take your car to Millennium Audi. They did mine repeatedly with the old failing parts and have now done at least three or four of the new applications, without incident. In other words, the RS tech there is quite familiar with the DRC system and the tools used to pressurize it. I wouldn't (and haven't) let anyone else touch my car since I've owned it.

They performed the DRC campaign on mine and it is going back in for ride height issues...I will comment on how it turns out.

[STaley]

A couple of notes.

You should not lower weight on a new DRC before bleed/repressure.

60k timing belt service? Schedule calls for 35k and 75k with no time limit.

I have to pull off the front to replace the horns and search for a whining electric fan or HVAC noise. So I was planning on doing the TB at the same time. The belt was replaced at 30k in 2005.

I love this car.

[Shoppinit]

Without wanting to sound like a petulant kid, why are the USA customers getting all the attention, and the euro ones can take a flying leap?

I don't see anyone from Audi posting on the UK forums either.

In the USA, they might be fixing the DRC wrong, but at least they're doing it.

Rant off.

[hahnmgh63]

Biggest customer base for Audi and besides, you know us yanks, the biggest complainers.

[Hy Octane]

Different set of consumer protection laws as well.

[SAF]

They performed the DRC campaign on mine and it is going back in for ride height issues...I will comment on how it turns out.

Interesting. How high was it? Please let me know how it goes.

[DuckWingDuck]

exactly@paul, I think all the filings of DRC failures with NHTSA and various complaints through channels made AoA started to feel uneasy.

[Hy Octane]

I do wonder if our fellow owners in Germany have these same issues as well and if so, how they have dealt with them.....

[Qisha]

Dear Hy Octane,

the mishandling quote of DRC based complains is very low over here. To me this is based on a) better overall trained personal (including motivation and backround knowledge factor) b) early recognition (inspection f.e. every 15 TKM) and last but not least c) close contact to the quattro GmbH Headquarters.

Thoughts are going into a direction where it makes sense to arrange special service points throughout the USA to cover future maintenance for high performance cars. This has not been decided yet but is under discussion. There are several factors that have influence regarding a decission, quantity of relevant vehicles f.e. etc.

I feel that the quality on employees will be should be mayor concern. Qualified personnel need a proper salary and a continued process of education.

As you might already know, Audi narrowed down the future cooperation partners in Germany and the service quality has adduced weighty arguments...

To me it is not all about selling cars but to retain the customers "fun factor". This starts with "listining" to the customer and ends with a proper diagnose and problem solution.

This whole DRC misery points out that hunderthousands of KMs, Test Runs under every possible environmental- everyday occurrence and extravagant field trials have to acknowledge themself beaten by human misbehavior. And this is were future quality assurance will start in first place.

Qisha

[Shoppinit]

I have a German friend who was shocked and disbelieving when I gave him an account of some of my Audi customer service experiences. On one occasion I had been called "cheap" and told that my RS6 was an "old car anyway" because I had the nerve to complain about an incorrectly cut key that cost 50 euros. According to him, this would never happen in Germany. Maybe Audi has trouble controling it's Customer service outside of Germany.

[DHall1]

Well,

All I can say is this. You will run into many folks that have no idea what it takes to purchase and maintain a RS6. I dont care if its brand new or 5yrs old. Those folks will never understand. You cant change their mind nor ever expect any service from them. You may as well turn around and walk the other direction.

Its a good thing that not all dealer staff are of that nature. I can call AoA and get one of the top customer managers at any moment. I have directed other members with problems to this person with fantastic results. Would you like to hear the statement that made me save his info?

"Mr Hall, you own an RS6. I will do everything in my power to ensure that the car is working to its full potential."

That is a company that gets my business. Period. And when the day comes that my wife wants to sell her E55 AMG....she will also be in an Audi. (Actually, I will not let her sell the AMG. Its too much fun to drive. I will just keep it and buy her a new Audi.) :-)

It also helps to have a 1st rate dealer service staff that even Audi Germany has recommended. Audi North Scottsdale in AZ. They also have my business. Period.

I will never sell my :addict: and my :R8: fund is building. I hope the direct injection carbon issue is fixed soon.


I have a German friend who was shocked and disbelieving when I gave him an account of some of my Audi customer service experiences. On one occasion I had been called "cheap" and told that my RS6 was an "old car anyway" because I had the nerve to complain about an incorrectly cut key that cost 50 euros. According to him, this would never happen in Germany. Maybe Audi has trouble controling it's Customer service outside of Germany.

[DHall1]

Qisha,

These are all very good points. How does Gmbh ensure that the top tier of customers in the USA get the proper service staff to complete proper repairs?

With the low number of ultra tech vehicles...R8, RS4 and RS6 as examples. It would not make sense to spend the time and expense to train all Audi USA staff to become experts. There is a growing turnover rate at all USA dealers that lose expert service staff. So, what can be done?

Regional service experts to travel when needed for expert repairs to any top tier vehicle. Thus you only need a few well trained service expert staff that could travel when needed to exact high level repairs.

Also, build a network of customer centered managers to ensure top tier vehicle owners know how to contact Audi and get help. As we have seen on this forum. Many owners have needed to get the help from fellow owners to train the local dealer staff. This is the worst public policy for Audi and the worst method to retain the top tier customer. Many RS6 owners have just given up and traded in or sold the cars to drive other vehicles. Audi has lost those customers. It is a shame to lose any customer in that manner. Not to mention a RS customer.

As I have just posted before. I have the name and direct number of a Audi manager in MI and an excellent local dealer in Audi N. Scottsdale. But this is not the case in other areas. I think the above ideas could be put in place with very little expense and ensure a greater customer loyality and experience for top tier owners.

Cheers


Dear Hy Octane,

the mishandling quote of DRC based complains is very low over here. To me this is based on a) better overall trained personal (including motivation and backround knowledge factor) b) early recognition (inspection f.e. every 15 TKM) and last but not least c) close contact to the quattro GmbH Headquarters.

Thoughts are going into a direction where it makes sense to arrange special service points throughout the USA to cover future maintenance for high performance cars. This has not been decided yet but is under discussion. There are several factors that have influence regarding a decission, quantity of relevant vehicles f.e. etc.

I feel that the quality on employees will be should be mayor concern. Qualified personnel need a proper salary and a continued process of education.

As you might already know, Audi narrowed down the future cooperation partners in Germany and the service quality has adduced weighty arguments...

To me it is not all about selling cars but to retain the customers "fun factor". This starts with "listining" to the customer and ends with a proper diagnose and problem solution.

This whole DRC misery points out that hunderthousands of KMs, Test Runs under every possible environmental- everyday occurrence and extravagant field trials have to acknowledge themself beaten by human misbehavior. And this is were future quality assurance will start in first place.

Qisha