Autocar road test R8 V10

[QuattroFun]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsHistory/Audi-R8-5.2-V10-FSI/241153/

Very nice overall, but I expected more than "only" 4 stars. How come they seem to think that the extra money over the V8 is not as well spent?

[wedouglas]

The numbers in the data are pretty shitty.

[crespo]

Well, they loved it in the first drive video on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTZ0PA9KlT4&feature=fvst). funny how that works.

[Z07]

Autocar numbers were slower than the Evo numbers, which is very unusual. Normally the other way round.

[Leadfoot]

Autocar numbers were slower than the Evo numbers, which is very unusual. Normally the other way round.

I'm unsure about this but I feel all times should be conducted at the Milbrook proving grounds, that way track surface variations can be removed and only drive skill and weather are to differences between mag results.

Though I am in agreement, Autocar usually do out-perform EVO in acceleration times. Might have been an under the weather example of the R8v10.:brag:

[KresoF1]

Interesting thing is that most serious German magazines(AMS and Sport Auto) likes R8 5.2 FSI more then R8 4.2 FSI and they claim that V10 is better and more focused drivers car. I fully agree after short test drive in R8 V10 last week.

[Leadfoot]

Interesting thing is that most serious German magazines(AMS and Sport Auto) likes R8 5.2 FSI more then R8 4.2 FSI and they claim that V10 is better and more focused drivers car. I fully agree after short test drive in R8 V10 last week.

Your opinion has changed since driving it then because I remember you reservations that the extra weight of the engine would have effected it's handling for the worse. Great news to hear Audi have exceeded your expectations. :cheers:

[RXBG]

crappy data.

re: criticism of its price. i don't know what the price spread is over there, but i don't think it should cost more than 15% over an equally equipped V8. if it had the full 556 hp then maybe 20%. you could also say i am saying the LP560 is waaaaaaaaay overpriced.

also--- though i agree it is far from outdated, seeing the S5 MMI system and graphics in person reminds me that the next R8 is still over 4 years away. and that'll be a looong time for this one to carry on- even with the recently updated nav system.

[rks838]

(uhh, earth to everyone, the extra money for the V10 is NOT well spent)

[roadrunner]

...
How come they seem to think that the extra money over the V8 is not as well spent?

Maybe, because the R8 V8 is such a great car, and it is - BUT the V10 is worth EVERY penny more.

You will not find such "civilized" (if desired) sportscar, whit that performace just waiting to be let loose, only to return to the "normal" orbit, after having been to driving heaven.

A little bit "poetic" - i know, but the R8 V10 is the most desireable car for me, especially after i had the chance to drive one for a week.

If you have the extra cash - always - i repeat - always go for the V10. :R8:

[RXBG]

Maybe, because the R8 V8 is such a great car, and it is - BUT the V10 is worth EVERY penny more.

You will not find such "civilized" (if desired) sportscar, whit that performace just waiting to be let loose, only to return to the "normal" orbit, after having been to driving heaven.

A little bit "poetic" - i know, but the R8 V10 is the most desireable car for me, especially after i had the chance to drive one for a week.

If you have the extra cash - always - i repeat - always go for the V10. :R8:

agreed about the extra cash thing.
but sometimes the extra cash is a matter of personal subjectivism. you may have the money, but can you justify it?

since i do not own an emirate or a piece of expensive desert that can justify my silver plating the clutch in my cars i have to apply my head to moving up to the V10. granted, the US pricing has not come out. but if they ask me to pay a dear 40% more they can stick it. if they ask me to pay 15% more then perhaps i'll do it. in reality, even in my neck of the woods where every trip incorporates highway miles and some twistsies, the chance of me seeing the extra horses a significant amount of time is minimal. if i went to sebring twice a month it'd be a different story. and so, i am compelled to keep a V8 if the numbers don't make sense.

[QuattroFun]

Oh, the printed mag version of the very same test in fact gives the R8 V10 4.5 stars out of 5 and ranks the car 1st in the relevant peer group ahead of 911 Turbo and Lambo LP560-4. That is more like it, although they still just like latest Evo claim that the extra weight blunts the car's handling vs. the V8.

As regards the price, I really think its a bargain on all accounts in the UK in particular with the pound where it is and given the standard equipment. However, I think that you have to separate the decision regarding should you trade up if you already have a nearly new V8 from the completely different decision that would you buy one over the V8 if you were in the market for a new R8 anyway.

I know I would buy the V10 for sure if I was into a brand new R8. However, if I would already have a R8 V8 and would be happy with it (which I am sure I would be), I would not personally sell a 1-year old V8 at 30-35% loss just to get the newest and baddest V10 toy around, but very much respect those that can and will do it.

[RXBG]

good point QuattroFun re: the new buyer vs trade-up buyer. absolutely, if it is only 10-15% more the V10 is a no brainer (and why the roadster will not have a V8 option and why the V8 will be phased out in the coming year). however, for current V8 owners, losing 35% on your current car tallies up the bill at ~40% more than the current car!!!!!! is it that much better? 15% yes. but it is not 40% better.

there you have it.

[artur777]

strange test
the data is sluggish
I gope it will be really better in life

[KresoF1]

Since we have pretty bad test date in this IMO totally irelevant Autocar test here are numbers from few German tests...

AMS

0-100km/h: 3.9s
0-200km/h:12.3s

Auto Bild

0-100km/h: 3.7s
0-200km/h:12.1s

Sport Auto

0-100km/h: 4.0s
0-200km/h:12.9s

Note that recently ALL cars are the slowest in Sport Auto acceleration tests.

And to add EVO numbers:

0-60mph: 3.9s
0-100mph: 8.4s
0-120mph:11.7s

[Leadfoot]

11.7s @ 120mph would roughly meant about 12.4s @ 200km/h.

Anyway, the R8 is about much more than pure figures, it's probably the best supercar made, combining all the abilities of the best but with none of their drawbacks.

[audi_ch]

The r8 v10 is definitly a great car.

But the new 911 turbo facelift is in his way.

500 hp, 0-100 in 3,5 secs and Pdk.

We will see how r8 v10 will compete against the new 911 turbo.

And not to forget the new 911 turbo s with aprox 530 hp and 3,4 sec to 100kmh.

I think this 2 cars will show us clearly how god the r8 v10 really is. If porsche can improve the 911 turbo facelift like the gt3, it could be a really hard battle for the r8

[absent]

In US the car will be most definitely over $160k.
Sorry but for that money I'd rather have a slightly used Lp560...

[KresoF1]

The r8 v10 is definitly a great car.

But the new 911 turbo facelift is in his way.

500 hp, 0-100 in 3,5 secs and Pdk.

We will see how r8 v10 will compete against the new 911 turbo.

And not to forget the new 911 turbo s with aprox 530 hp and 3,4 sec to 100kmh.

I think this 2 cars will show us clearly how god the r8 v10 really is. If porsche can improve the 911 turbo facelift like the gt3, it could be a really hard battle for the r8

997.2 Turbo is indeed impressive car. I saw internal P. memo with specs and they are awsome. Just... It is still rear engine sportscar with AWD. It will be very, very fast... How impressive or involving to drive? That is the question since current 997.1 Turbo is not the best drivers sportscar.

My opinion is that this car will be most impressive one http://www.worldcarfans.com/109070620305/ferrari-f450-full-body-prototype-spied-for-first-time and it will be truly better then R8 5.2 FSI.

[roadrunner]

@RXBG

My friend is in a similar position: thinking about getting an R8. He has the financial means to get either one, but is asking himself the question: is the V10 worth the extra [money B]for him[/B]. In his case - most probably not.

I fully understand your points - and as i stated: the R8 V8 is already an exceptional car.


But we have two ? for the US:

1. You did not have the chance yet to drive the R8 V10 (obviously, because they just arrive in the US)

2. we do not know the US pricetag yet - therefore the premium over the V8


But we do have some R8 V8 owners on ourboard (and some other) that have, or are in the process of upgrading from the V8 to the V10. They should be the ones, that really can tell the difference.

And in Europe, especially in the UK, the pricetag is 10-15% up on the V10 (taking into account the options that are standard on the V10). At these figures V10 :R8: all the way.

If you end up at 40%+ in the US - that's a different story, because that's a lot of additional cash we are talking about

Regarding the weight: I drove the V10 over Alpine mountain roads /passes, so it should have shown here. The the only thing that i noticed was that for the V10 elevation does not exist and it handled beautifully (either switchbacks and long sweepers).

It would have been interesting to do it back to back (V8 vs. V10)
Unfortunately we did not see the owner of this V8.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JZ7xQ7W0V8Q/SlBek1UH5II/AAAAAAAABS4/vKvSyKPoJjg/s720/CIMG0081.JPG

[roadrunner]

...
My opinion is that this car will be most impressive one http://www.worldcarfans.com/109070620305/ferrari-f450-full-body-prototype-spied-for-first-time and it will be truly better then R8 5.2 FSI.

I really hope the tripple exhaust is a joke
http://img.worldcarfans.com/2009/7/large/3026719.jpg

[Leadfoot]

997.2 Turbo is indeed impressive car. I saw internal P. memo with specs and they are awsome. Just... It is still rear engine sportscar with AWD. It will be very, very fast... How impressive or involving to drive? That is the question since current 997.1 Turbo is not the best drivers sportscar.

My opinion is that this car will be most impressive one http://www.worldcarfans.com/109070620305/ferrari-f450-full-body-prototype-spied-for-first-time and it will be truly better then R8 5.2 FSI.

I happen to like the current 997turbo but never pushed it on a track to know whether it all falls apart, on the road it's very good but still nowhere near as rewarding to drive as the R8 or as comfortable.

As for the F450, this will ultimately be the best driver's car (as always) but will probably remain very much a one trick pony, being awful as a daily drive as almost every other Ferrari is. I believe only Porsche and Audi make true supercars that can be considered suitable to drive daily which is really what is most important as more time enjoying the experience is far more important than getting a slightly big kick less of the time as is the norm with all other so called supercars.

[wedouglas]

Best car out right now is still probably the LP560. Might still be for some time to come.

[RXBG]

Best car out right now is still probably the LP560. Might still be for some time to come.

this F450 is going to wipe the floor with the LP560. it looks like it is literally skin and bones with a V8 in the back. but all that lightweight trickery will cost you- about 230K USD.

if the US R8 V10 comes in at 140K it will be reasonable.


on another note- the design features of this new ferrari mean that audi will have to take the next R8 to a whole other level. with the reverse takeover of porsche i am now actually feeling good about the R8 replacement. i wonder if it is anywhere beyond the drawing phase.

[wedouglas]

Wipe the floor? How? How much faster do you really think cars can get?

I predict slightly faster than Scuderia, a lot of which will simply be to the transmission. New design. Better engineering. Lower price than Scud.

[KresoF1]

Wipe the floor? How? How much faster do you really think cars can get?

I predict slightly faster than Scuderia, a lot of which will simply be to the transmission. New design. Better engineering. Lower price than Scud.

New F450 will be in its own class. Belive me. I saw low resolution pics of final product and it really looks good. Specs are pretty awsome as well.

It will be faster on any track and in acceleration then 430 Scuderia. It will use 7speed DCT and top speed is in seventh gear unlike PDK or S Tronic where seventh gear is pure overdrive.

F450 will be almost too good in performance as you will see in late autumn...

[Leadfoot]

Wipe the floor? How? How much faster do you really think cars can get?

That kind of sounds like a pissing contest. Is outright speed to number one requirement on any car, even a so called supercar?

One could argue that in normal situations of give or take traffic some one in even an LP560/4 wouldn't be able to lose a well driven R8v8, never mind a V10 version. So unless you're a traffic light racer or visit the dragstrip regularly I don't see the point of even debating which is quicker in a straight line.

The wiping the floor will be it's abilities to corner/brake and change direction harder while giving an ultimate driving experience but this will be resticted to tracks only. And yes it will be very expensive.

[KresoF1]

I happen to like the current 997turbo but never pushed it on a track to know whether it all falls apart, on the road it's very good but still nowhere near as rewarding to drive as the R8 or as comfortable.

As for the F450, this will ultimately be the best driver's car (as always) but will probably remain very much a one trick pony, being awful as a daily drive as almost every other Ferrari is. I believe only Porsche and Audi make true supercars that can be considered suitable to drive daily which is really what is most important as more time enjoying the experience is far more important than getting a slightly big kick less of the time as is the norm with all other so called supercars.

Hmm... California is better daily driver then R8. Sorry but, that is the fact. I test drive one and I was very impressed overall with California.

F450 will be according to Ferrari as good as R8 V10 in daily driver role and much, much more capable on the track.

Just look at F450 engine...
http://www.czechferrari.cz/image/publisher/images/articles/13766.jpg
Combined with SOTA 7 speed DCT and truly amazing chassis this car will be new leader in sportscar segment. Of course, IMHO.

[crespo]

I really hope the tripple exhaust is a jokeJoke or not, just look at that diffuser! That thing will be a serious piece of kit.

[wedouglas]

That kind of sounds like a pissing contest. Is outright speed to number one requirement on any car, even a so called supercar?

One could argue that in normal situations of give or take traffic some one in even an LP560/4 wouldn't be able to lose a well driven R8v8, never mind a V10 version. So unless you're a traffic light racer or visit the dragstrip regularly I don't see the point of even debating which is quicker in a straight line.

The wiping the floor will be it's abilities to corner/brake and change direction harder while giving an ultimate driving experience but this will be resticted to tracks only. And yes it will be very expensive.

Sorry, but I don't think it will be able to do that much better in any area. Like I said, there is a plateau for all areas of performance.

[KresoF1]

Joke or not, just look at that diffuser! That thing will be a serious piece of kit.

Exhaust is real.
http://www.czechferrari.cz/image/publisher/images/articles/13470.jpg

[KresoF1]

If anyone is interested in final F450 look...
http://www.czechferrari.cz/image/publisher/images/articles/13772.jpg

[Leadfoot]

Hmm... California is better daily driver then R8. Sorry but, that is the fact. I test drive one and I was very impressed overall with California.

F450 will be according to Ferrari as good as R8 V10 in daily driver role and much, much more capable on the track.

As the California isn't like either the R8 or F430/450 I didn't consider it when commenting about Ferraris as bad daily drivers. It's a Grand Tourer and a bloody good one but it's not a match for the others on the track or down a great road.

Whether Ferrari's claims for the F450 are true or not will have to be seen, I personally doubt it will be quite as good as the R8 on this front. No doubt it will be the best track car of the non trackstar specials but it's near enough impossible to combine track leading ability with every day usability. Neither will bother me because I will never throw the kind of money to buy either the R8v10 or F450 into a car, I have always set myself a limit and both far exceed it, no I am much more interested in the possible new quattro system that is claimed to be coming.

[RXBG]

As the California isn't like either the R8 or F430/450 I didn't consider it when commenting about Ferraris as bad daily drivers. It's a Grand Tourer and a bloody good one but it's not a match for the others on the track or down a great road.

Whether Ferrari's claims for the F450 are true or not will have to be seen, I personally doubt it will be quite as good as the R8 on this front. No doubt it will be the best track car of the non trackstar specials but it's near enough impossible to combine track leading ability with every day usability. Neither will bother me because I will never throw the kind of money to buy either the R8v10 or F450 into a car, I have always set myself a limit and both far exceed it, no I am much more interested in the possible new quattro system that is claimed to be coming.

track day and daily day usability DO go hand in hand. audi did it with the R8 itself!

i agree with everything Kreso says about the F450 except one thing- daily driveability. i don't think Ferrari went that route so much. it'll be a better daily driver MARGNINALLY than the current base F430 for sure, and with better-than F430 scuderia performance by much more than marginal standards. but it'll not be as easy as the R8.

making a car light (and this thing will be light as hell- barely over 3000 lbs imo) is EXPENSIVE though. so it'll cost more than an LP560.

wedouglas- sorry, but the DSG gearbox will be game changing. people still dont want to understand that DSG gearboxes are the third ultimate factor of performance nowadays- along with HP/torque and weight figures. if the GTR had a true manual tranny it would be a 4 second car to 60 and a 12 sec 1/4 mile car. it would also post 7:40+ ring times. conversely, if the R8 V10 had DSG it would pull 0-60 in 3.3 seconds, 1/4 in 11.5, and round the ring in less than 7:30 easily.

put an engine with 550 hp, 400 torque, in a chassis weighing ~3100lbs, and the give it a DSG? your ring time will be phenomenal- i predict 7:22.

[Leadfoot]

OK, the R8 is the exception to the rule in that it's very go on the track as well as being probably the best everyday 'true' supercar currently made. But I wouldn't say that it's as good a track car as the likes of the GT3RS or F430 Scud, though to be perfectly honest with you I doubt Audi wanted the R8 to be like that, even though they had the ability to probably make it the best of all track cars.

I also not quite agree that DSG/DCT makes a world of difference in either track times or acceleration figures. Check out the M3 (both manual and DCT), one of the very few cars to be offered in both forms, most of the times set by either transmission are within a tenth or so to 60mph and some magazine have reported that the manual is actually quicker as the cars go beyond 120mph. Even on the track the difference is not major. DSG is a lifestyle choice, it makes for easier driving in town and is the more user friendly but it doesn't involve the driver as much as a manual and as such the three pedals will always be the preferred choice of the enthusiast.

[wedouglas]

track day and daily day usability DO go hand in hand. audi did it with the R8 itself!

i agree with everything Kreso says about the F450 except one thing- daily driveability. i don't think Ferrari went that route so much. it'll be a better daily driver MARGNINALLY than the current base F430 for sure, and with better-than F430 scuderia performance by much more than marginal standards. but it'll not be as easy as the R8.

making a car light (and this thing will be light as hell- barely over 3000 lbs imo) is EXPENSIVE though. so it'll cost more than an LP560.

wedouglas- sorry, but the DSG gearbox will be game changing. people still dont want to understand that DSG gearboxes are the third ultimate factor of performance nowadays- along with HP/torque and weight figures. if the GTR had a true manual tranny it would be a 4 second car to 60 and a 12 sec 1/4 mile car. it would also post 7:40+ ring times. conversely, if the R8 V10 had DSG it would pull 0-60 in 3.3 seconds, 1/4 in 11.5, and round the ring in less than 7:30 easily.

put an engine with 550 hp, 400 torque, in a chassis weighing ~3100lbs, and the give it a DSG? your ring time will be phenomenal- i predict 7:22.

You're dreaming.

[RXBG]

OK, the R8 is the exception to the rule in that it's very go on the track as well as being probably the best everyday 'true' supercar currently made. But I wouldn't say that it's as good a track car as the likes of the GT3RS or F430 Scud, though to be perfectly honest with you I doubt Audi wanted the R8 to be like that, even though they had the ability to probably make it the best of all track cars.

I also not quite agree that DSG/DCT makes a world of difference in either track times or acceleration figures. Check out the M3 (both manual and DCT), one of the very few cars to be offered in both forms, most of the times set by either transmission are within a tenth or so to 60mph and some magazine have reported that the manual is actually quicker as the cars go beyond 120mph. Even on the track the difference is not major. DSG is a lifestyle choice, it makes for easier driving in town and is the more user friendly but it doesn't involve the driver as much as a manual and as such the three pedals will always be the preferred choice of the enthusiast.


i was not aware of such a small discrepancy in the M3's trannies' performance. perhaps it is more of a factor of how the DSG is executed/geared. in the 997.2 it is a marked difference. notwithstanding, i still believe that in general, these trannies can make a world of difference in instrumented testing.

[Leadfoot]

i was not aware of such a small discrepancy in the M3's trannies' performance. perhaps it is more of a factor of how the DSG is executed/geared. in the 997.2 it is a marked difference. notwithstanding, i still believe that in general, these trannies can make a world of difference in instrumented testing.

I don't know why the 997.2 shows a greater variation between the two transmissions. Both the M3 and 997 have 7 gears in their DCT gearboxes and only 6 in the manuals so I don't think gearing or execution is the reason for the differing results between the two brands, possibly it's their differing engine characteristics. :brag:

You also have to consider the results we have on the S4 in both transmission forms, it too seems to be producing very similar results to that of the M3. May be the 997.2 is the odd one out.

There is no doubt that having both hands firmly on the wheel at all times should make things easier on the track but so far there doesn't appear to be the evidence to prove whether this is true or false. Given the choice I too would chose the DSG but only because I'm a sucker for new technologies, but only if there wasn't a performance penalty to be had which seems to be true for DCT transmissions.

I simply believe that it's not DSG or any other form of this transmission that is making cars like the GTR or 997.2 so fast around tracks but the overall design and execution of all it's parts of which these transmissions are playing it's part if only a small one.

[chewym]

Acceleration wise the California is in between V8 R8 and V10 R8. Pretty impressive for a car that's about 500 pounds heavier than the R8 V8. But then again, it's more expensive than V10 R8. The LP 560 Gallardo beats pretty much everything in acceleration.

[QuattroFun]

I simply believe that it's not DSG or any other form of this transmission that is making cars like the GTR or 997.2 so fast around tracks but the overall design and execution of all it's parts of which these transmissions are playing it's part if only a small one.

The jury is still out on this one and clearly the overall design is what counts, but I suspect that you are too pessimistic on the DCT factor as one important aid in terms of efficiency if not feel. For example, Autobild tested the M3 Coupe manual against the M3 Coupe DCT with same EDC suspension, 19" wheels and tyres. Result: DCT was 1.1s faster in 0-200 (DCT 15.2s) and 0.30s faster on the short Contidrom/Hannover (DCT 1.35.11 min). DCT fuel consumption was on average 0.8L lower per 100km when driven hard (DCT still 13.0L/100km!). And I believe Porsche can produce even bigger gains...

[Leadfoot]

The jury is still out on this one and clearly the overall design is what counts, but I suspect that you are too pessimistic on the DCT factor as one important aid in terms of efficiency if not feel. For example, Autobild tested the M3 Coupe manual against the M3 Coupe DCT with same EDC suspension, 19" wheels and tyres. Result: DCT was 1.1s faster in 0-200 (DCT 15.2s) and 0.30s faster on the short Contidrom/Hannover (DCT 1.35.11 min). DCT fuel consumption was on average 0.8L lower per 100km when driven hard (DCT still 13.0L/100km!). And I believe Porsche can produce even bigger gains...

1.1s is a very big improvement from solely a change of transmission, though when you look at other tests of the M3 manuals you will see them all but match the time Autobild got for the DCT car. I'm not denying it won't be quicker both on the track and in acceleration but don't believe it's a so-called wonder drug that turns normal cars into something much, much better than they are.

[RXBG]

1.1s is a very big improvement from solely a change of transmission, though when you look at other tests of the M3 manuals you will see them all but match the time Autobild got for the DCT car. I'm not denying it won't be quicker both on the track and in acceleration but don't believe it's a so-called wonder drug that turns normal cars into something much, much better than they are.


well- not so sure about your latter statement. some cars can benefit hugely from a DSG especially if they are heavy and depend on boost for torque, because maintaining boost steadily is crucial for optimal accelaretion with those engines. also, low torque engines with narrow powerbands would benefit immensely from a DSG. high rev engines might be less variable.

the GTR engine is the kind that benefits the most from a DSG for this reason. the 997.2 engine is a bit peaky and only at 4500-6500 rpm too. as such, the DSG practically converts it to a high rev concept with a flat torque curve and gives it significant accel prowess (didn't it beat the GTR in a straight line in CAR?)

if the 997.2 TT brings on a DSG it will own the ring- as long as handling is improved a bit. it certainly will.

[KresoF1]

well- not so sure about your latter statement. some cars can benefit hugely from a DSG especially if they are heavy and depend on boost for torque, because maintaining boost steadily is crucial for optimal accelaretion with those engines. also, low torque engines with narrow powerbands would benefit immensely from a DSG. high rev engines might be less variable.

the GTR engine is the kind that benefits the most from a DSG for this reason. the 997.2 engine is a bit peaky and only at 4500-6500 rpm too. as such, the DSG practically converts it to a high rev concept with a flat torque curve and gives it significant accel prowess (didn't it beat the GTR in a straight line in CAR?)

if the 997.2 TT brings on a DSG it will own the ring- as long as handling is improved a bit. it certainly will.

My really big advice for you is to arrange a test drive of 997.2 CS or C4S equiped with PDK and Sport Chrono Plus(a MUST for PDK!). Drive it in standard, Sport and Sport Plus PDK programs for some time and only then you can make an objective opinion about its merits...

My opinion? PDK is great sport "automatic" which works very best in D(full auto) mode.
BTW, that 7.50min for 997.2 CS by HvS is made in Sport Plus D mode...

[RXBG]

My really big advice for you is to arrange a test drive of 997.2 CS or C4S equiped with PDK and Sport Chrono Plus(a MUST for PDK!). Drive it in standard, Sport and Sport Plus PDK programs for some time and only then you can make an objective opinion about its merits...

My opinion? PDK is great sport "automatic" which works very best in D(full auto) mode.
BTW, that 7.50min for 997.2 CS by HvS is made in Sport Plus D mode...

best objective opinion is based on hard data- which is abundant.

not so interested in driving ugly things. sorry!