DIY: Test/Fix intercooler leaks w/bumper removal procedure

[Audi-RS6]

Hello everyone,

per someones request...

Goal of this DIY is to finally fix boost leak issue without buying new intercoolers,
i also thought that I'm fast until I met m5 on my way home...

I would recommend to read comments to the pictures, to save you from troubles (sorry for my english
just in case)...

lets start... ramp

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3823.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3824.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3825.JPG

I was able to turn wheels while on the ramp, its to gain access to the side bolts that hold the
bumper

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3826.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3827.JPG

... you dont have to remove completely plastic cover, just bent it to gain access

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3828.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3829.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3830.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3831.JPG

here are those bolt, there are three of them

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3832.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3833.JPG

...you better use this combination of tools

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3834.JPG

driver side

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3835.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3836.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3837.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3838.JPG

remove fog grill

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3839.JPG

one bolt on each side holds main bumper support

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3840.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3841.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3842.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3843.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3844.JPG

stop! unclipp the sides (next picture)

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3845.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3846.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3847.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3848.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3849.JPG

remove lower plastic cover screws...

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3850.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3851.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3852.JPG

now push the bumper and try to locate connectors for flog light and horn, unclipp em

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3853.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3854.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3855.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3856.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3857.JPG

driver side has a wate hose (I lost my clip last time, so I used ziptie)

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3858.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3859.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3860.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3861.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3862.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3863.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3864.JPG

remove everything thats attached to intercooler, if your car was never taken apart, you should have
some plastic covers behind each intercooler, remove them too (i dont have them)

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3865.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3866.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3867.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3868.JPG

lower hose

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3869.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3870.JPG

three screws hold the headlights...

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3871.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3872.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3873.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3874.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3875.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3876.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3877.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3878.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3879.JPG

lower plastic bolt holds radiator hose

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3880.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3881.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3882.JPG

i managed to remove radiator with a flat screw driver, aluminum bents really well, so make sure
you dont punch a hole in it

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3883.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3884.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3885.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3886.JPG

stop! I forgot to remove lower side bolt for intercooler

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3887.JPG

now it should move

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3888.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3889.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3890.JPG

my test equipment (3" plumbing cap, 3" plumbing test cap, OEM air compressor, water)

IMPORTANT!!! with this test equipment u cannnot go higher than 1bar, or it will shoot the
yellow cap

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3892.JPG

leak, even after I fixed it 2 weeks ago...

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3893.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3894.JPG

driver headlight

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3895.JPG

magnetic tool

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3896.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3897.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3898.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3899.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3900.JPG

unplug all connectors to eliminate troubles

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3901.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3902.JPG

move all hoses and wires somewhere inside to have room for intercooler

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3903.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3904.JPG

lol again forgot to remove side lower bolt...

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3905.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3906.JPG

leak...

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3907.JPG

my first mistake!!! i tried to fix it fast and used minute epoxy (DONT DO IT)

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3908.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3909.JPG

leak agian after hour of wait

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3910.JPG

now i used JB welder, prepared the surface this time and waiting 12 hours for cure

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3911.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3912.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3913.JPG

to be continued...

[Erik]

Wohoo...great DIY post. Thanks for your time.

[DHall1]

now we are talking!!

the next ca driving event and the beer round is on me. I think the julian run will be good for me.

Nice job

[SteveKen]

Great work. I'm hoping that you still have the bumper off and can get me some measurements on the bumper shocks as shown below.

See my post for reference: http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?p=164144#post164144

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3866.JPG

[ben916]

You are BRAVE!!!

Excellent work and write up!!!

[Ruergard]

Great work!

This will probably be very useable for a lot of people. Excellent work!

Looking forward to the next part. :)

[Benman]

Fantastic detail, excellent post. :thumb: :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[SAF]

:mech: Thanks for taking the time to document this process!! :cheers:

[snoopra]

Dude, you are the DIY procedure KING!:bow: (gave me the final confidence I NEEDED)

[Audi-RS6]

thank you all!

here are the results...

Did leak test again... new holes came up in 4 places, somewhere inside between the rails, solution:
- punch a hole through, remove as much as possible close to the main bracket
- SAND PAPER the area and wipe with some brake cleaner
- COVER completely with CLEAR TAPE one side of the hole (so you see JB WELD fills the hole)
- TAPE AROUND from another side (so you don't mess with neighbor rails)
- take JB weld and push it inside until it completely fills the gap

NOTE: if you need to wipe smth out or your JB WELD dont flow, take T-SHIRT, spray some brake cleaner on it and use it (it wont stick this way; very helpful)

- YOU'll NOTICE THAT WELD IS FLOATING, SO MAKE SURE YOU FILL ALL HOLES ONCE UNDER SAME ANGLE

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3921.JPG

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/IMGP3920.JPG

waiting until tommorow :) ...

[HeadShot]

Excellent job and pics mate, VERY helpful - keep them coming and thanks for all the hard work. Is there a replacement intercooler to consider??? Like the sport tec stuff although the price is way to high!!

[Audi-RS6]

Thanks!

Both intercoolers were fixed.
Tested under 1bar = 14psi

RECOMMENDATION:
Use JB WELD for "holes through" only, it doesnt hold well when thin layer.

but found Permatex 4min Epoxy Multi-Metal much better for sides, small holes, thin layers and overall patch.

http://wheelsgallery.com/upload/rs6/intercooler/epoxy.jpg

[Audi-RS6]

I don't think bigger intercooler does better job. Audi already calculated it size to the turbo flow, bigger intercooler will make more lag to create needed pressure, which stays the same anyway...


Excellent job and pics mate, VERY helpful - keep them coming and thanks for all the hard work. Is there a replacement intercooler to consider??? Like the sport tec stuff although the price is way to high!!

[DHall1]

I would be interested in the long term fix with JBWeld.

I think a better fix may have been to have the seam welded.

The bumping and vibrations that the ICs get may dislodge the patch. If you think about it....JBWeld is not designed to be a pressure sealant. Pressure is working from behind and will eventually work around the backside of the repair.

[Audi-RS6]

completely agree, besides that I found JBWeld not strong enough when thin layer

So I would recommend 4min Multi-Metal Epoxy - VERY STRONG stuff!


I would be interested in the long term fix with JBWeld.

I think a better fix may have been to have the seam welded.

The bumping and vibrations that the ICs get may dislodge the patch. If you think about it....JBWeld is not designed to be a pressure sealant. Pressure is working from behind and will eventually work around the backside of the repair.

[terrytcl]

great write up!

just wonder... since our intercoolers are of such bad quality... and there are so many fmic kits out there for the s4 and a6 2.7s... why not go with a fmic kit?

the intercooler should fit, but the plumbing will have to change...

steve, is this what you are planning?

i'd like to go with an fmic... i have so much junk built up on my smics and would have to take them out entirely to just clean them... add on top of that the chance of a leak!??!?

it'll be so much easier to go with an fmic..

[DHall1]

Yeeks,

We have been down the fmic pros and cons several times.

We have an excellent design and flow of air across the front of our cars. IMHO the fimic just screws up that flow.

For what ever the reason, these stock ICs seem to be giving up after 6yrs on cars with some mileage. For me, its a non issue as my Fidelity plan goes to 2014. Audi can put on 6 sets of ICs for all I care. (I dont think its that bad) But, even if you have to pay for 1 set....it should last you another 6 years given the mileage rate stays the same.


great write up!

just wonder... since our intercoolers are of such bad quality... and there are so many fmic kits out there for the s4 and a6 2.7s... why not go with a fmic kit?

the intercooler should fit, but the plumbing will have to change...

steve, is this what you are planning?

i'd like to go with an fmic... i have so much junk built up on my smics and would have to take them out entirely to just clean them... add on top of that the chance of a leak!??!?

it'll be so much easier to go with an fmic..

[terrytcl]

judging by the work necessary to remove these as well as the poor quality of the intercoolers...

it just seems like a no brainer to go with the fmic route...

just the downtime and the tearing apart of front end to get to the smics is not worth it to me...

i'd like to see what steve is planning with his swap.

:hahahehe:

[SteveKen]

I'm planning an RS6 nose conversion to my S6 and eventually an RS6 biturbo swap. Right now, I'm doing an 01E 6 speed swap on my tiptronic S6. I'll post up another thread in regards to this later.

As for the FMIC, I was under the impression that the 4.2 Biturbo is super sensitive with water cooling and the lack of flow to the radiator would pose a problem. If this is true, however, I'm not sure what good the aux radiators are behind the IC's on the 'hot weather' or RS6+ packages.

My S6 has a fairly large aux radiatior on the passenger side of the car where the IC would be located.

I'm interested in seeing if my RS6 IC's are leaking now and will test them. Maybe the same place that will test my radiator can do this?

[DHall1]

Any added capacity is welcome when it comes to engine cooling help. The flow thru the ICs and then into the aux rads adds to coolant capacity. Plus, the air is just leaving thru the wheel well and out the car.

Make a homemade kit with plumbing supplies and rubber hoses. Have a port to introduce pressure and a simple gauge on the other side. 30 bucks topps




As for the FMIC, I was under the impression that the 4.2 Biturbo is super sensitive with water cooling and the lack of flow to the radiator would pose a problem. If this is true, however, I'm not sure what good the aux radiators are behind the IC's on the 'hot weather' or RS6+ packages.

I'm interested in seeing if my RS6 IC's are leaking now and will test them. Maybe the same place that will test my radiator can do this?

[SteveKen]

i'd like to see what steve is planning with his swap.

From the standpoint of IC's, I actually bought my RS6 IC's of of a B5 S4 2.7T person. The difference between the 2.7T and RS6 IC's seems like an order of magnitude.

The person I bought them off of didn't like them and went with aftermarket ones. Aside form quality, I couldn't imagine them being ineffective intercoolers, even for a stage 3 2.7T. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

[10SecS4]

Just FYI, I tuned a 2000 A6 2.7T with K04s and RS6 intercoolers. His IAT curve was a little worse than your typical stage 3 car with RS4 intercoolers.


From the standpoint of IC's, I actually bought my RS6 IC's of of a B5 S4 2.7T person. The difference between the 2.7T and RS6 IC's seems like an order of magnitude.

The person I bought them off of didn't like them and went with aftermarket ones. Aside form quality, I couldn't imagine them being ineffective intercoolers, even for a stage 3 2.7T. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

[SteveKen]

Just FYI, I tuned a 2000 A6 2.7T with K04s and RS6 intercoolers. His IAT curve was a little worse than your typical stage 3 car with RS4 intercoolers.

Just by looking at this, makes me wonder why this is the case.

http://www.kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/rs4_vs_rs6.jpg

Could the shape of the RS6 end tanks be the problem? They seem more offset than planar with the IC.

Could the large differences in the inlet and outlet diameters have a negative affect with flow and pressure? I've got a degree in physics, so I feel like I should know the answer here. :(

[terrytcl]

steve,

the dark ones in your picture are 2.7 or rs4 intercoolers?

if the bottom ic is the rs6 intercooler, then it is definitely not something i've seen normally with ICs. most ICs i've seen both aftermarket and OEM dont' have offset end tanks... and the end tanks (if not straight inlet and outlet end tanks) have a profile like the darker IC. Even if you look at the race aftermarket ICs, you'll never see anything with an offset. Plus if you think of the amount and direction of force of the plumbing... it'll slowly rip the end tanks from the core of the intercooler. probably why RS6 ICs are prone to leaks.

[10SecS4]

Just by looking at this, makes me wonder why this is the case.

http://www.kendrish.com/galleries/RS6/rs4_vs_rs6.jpg

Could the shape of the RS6 end tanks be the problem? They seem more offset than planar with the IC.

Could the large differences in the inlet and outlet diameters have a negative affect with flow and pressure? I've got a degree in physics, so I feel like I should know the answer here. :(

I too would've thought that the RS6 intercoolers would offer superior cooling over the RS4 intercoolers, just by looking at them. Maybe it has something to do with the RS6 intercoolers being designed for the lower boost levels seen on the 4.2T?

I'm working with a shop here in the states to have some aftermarket intercoolers built for the RS6. They say they should have their first prototype set done next month. I'm really looking forward to them, especially after reading so many threads lately about how the stock intercoolers leak.
__________________
Marc aka 10SecS4

http://titsup-racing.com/video/rs6/rs6_sig.jpg

2003 Audi RS6
11.59 @ 118.63 | Video (http://www.titsup-racing.com/video/rs6/rs6_11_8.wmv) | Timeslip (http://titsup-racing.com/video/rs6/rs6_11_59_timeslip_resized.jpg)
Mods: No pre-cats & my own custom tuned ECU/TCU. That's it!

2000 Audi S4
10.73 @ 132.76 | Video (http://titsup-racing.com/video/s4/s4_10_73.wmv) | Timeslip (http://titsup-racing.com/images/s4/s4_10_73.jpg)
Mods: K04s + bolt-ons + weight reduction (bone stock motor!)

[hahnmgh63]

Marc, I may be interested in a set also, maybe we can get others. I would like pretty much bolt in without too many mods and stock appearance externally.

[Jani]

Great write up, though I would already replace the obviously worn out IC's with something that holds pressure.

If you want to replace the stock IC's with something bigger, look at this setup: http://www.wagner-tuning.de/produkte/200001010RS6LLK.php

The site seems to be in German only, but you do get the pictures and numbers surely. I haven't fitted the kit to my car, but have heard they are good quality. And the price is competitive.

[Lupo911]

Great write up, though I would already replace the obviously worn out IC's with something that holds pressure.

If you want to replace the stock IC's with something bigger, look at this setup: http://www.wagner-tuning.de/produkte/200001010RS6LLK.php

The site seems to be in German only, but you do get the pictures and numbers surely. I haven't fitted the kit to my car, but have heard they are good quality. And the price is competitive.

We just finished the Work on the US / RS6+ Version...
The Brackets for the additional Water cooler behind the Intercooler are premounted, so it makes it easy to put them in the Car.

http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket1.JPG
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket2.JPG
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket3.JPG
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket4.JPG
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket5.JPG

[V8weight]

We just finished the Work on the US / RS6+ Version...
The Brackets for the additional Water cooler behind the Intercooler are premounted, so it makes it easy to put them in the Car.

http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket1.JPG
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket2.JPG
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket3.JPG
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket4.JPG
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS64BIntercooler/USPaket5.JPG
Are you still able to utilize the shrouds that go from the rear of the intercooler to the fender liner?

[Lupo911]

Are you still able to utilize the shrouds that go from the rear of the intercooler to the fender liner?

Yes, but it needs some minor Cutting. I did some tests with and without the rear Shrouds, i didnt notice any difference. RS4 does not have any Shrouds in the Back either...

[Lupo911]

new Inlet Gitter, now included in our RS6 Kit with no Charge...
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS6Intercooler/Gitter-final.JPG

[hahnmgh63]

Lupo, how much is this kit with intercoolers, ducts, and grilles? Do you have a website?

[Lupo911]

Lupo, how much is this kit with intercoolers, ducts, and grilles? Do you have a website?


The Kit is in Germany 1690Euro

http://wagner-tuning.de/produkte/200001010RS6LLK.php

In the Staates your will get them @ 034Motorsport
http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?products_id=19214&osCsid=bm3vosi1n5oop5c2bp4ucrmrm1

[HeadShot]

The kit looks great - much better price than Sportec. The thicker the intercooler (where they gained all the size really) the more air flow resistance... and at some point the less efficent yes?? Grizz sells these right, have we heard any good feed back. I think just from a quality build over stock it's probably worth it - just wondering about more / less cooling.... details.

[snoopra]

new Inlet Gitter, now included in our RS6 Kit with no Charge...
http://www.wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS6Intercooler/Gitter-final.JPG
How much for just the IC inlet grills?

[RS6-4dr911]

That's a really nasty bumper.

[DHall1]

This intercooler kit looks fantastic.

No wonder Grizz is installing a ton of these.

WOW. I like it.

[V8weight]

This intercooler kit looks fantastic.

No wonder Grizz is installing a ton of these.

WOW. I like it.
Did you see the price for this kit at 034 motorsports? Somewhere around $1900 if I remember correctly. Not too bad, definitely a lot easier to swallow than the price of the Sportec kit.

[DuckWingDuck]

That's a really nasty bumper.

lol, well loved!

[DuckWingDuck]

any word on performance gains?

[DHall1]

Hard to gauge IC performance gains.

Lots of data work needs to be done.

Maybe the Wagner folks that posted the pic can chime in.

Who cares when it looks that sexy, fits like stock and has that carbon intake blade. Wow

[Lupo911]

any word on performance gains?


We have a Lot of Data on these, just need to find some time to put the in a Table and make a Graph.

There are a Lot of Customers with our Intercoolers now and tey seem to be quite Happy with our Coolers. maybe some of them will Post there Experience here. Some of our German Customers did it on rs-quattro.de

Did you know, that almost 90% of all RS6 Coolers are Broken?

[Shoppinit]

Why are there different Wagner IC for the RS6 and the RS6+ / US models?

[Lupo911]

Why are there different Wagner IC for the RS6 and the RS6+ / US models?

Because RS6+ and US Models, have some additional Watercoolers behinder the Intercooler. They need some additional Brackets. And these are Premounted with Rivets.

[Shoppinit]

Interesting. No RS6 have these additional coolers? Even those with hot weather kits? If so, how can I tell which ones I need?

[Lupo911]

Interesting. No RS6 have these additional coolers? Even those with hot weather kits? If so, how can I tell which ones I need?

All US Cars = Hot Weather Kits

[Shoppinit]

OK Cool; but I'm not in the US and I suspect my car has the hot weather kit. How do I know? Or will the RS6+ IC also fit the RS6?

[Lupo911]

OK Cool; but I'm not in the US and I suspect my car has the hot weather kit. How do I know? Or will the RS6+ IC also fit the RS6?

you just need to find out, if you have some small watercoolers behind your intercooler... Maybe look for Waterlines, you need to look from underneath, thats the best way to find out.

[grizz]

I've got both sets in stock , I hope to have some logs later this week to show how much better they are.

[hahnmgh63]

Grizz, did you ever get some logs of the intercoolers?

[Shoppinit]

Bump.....

[grizz]

Not on standard cars only big turbo stage 4 cars.

[Lupo911]

http://wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS6Intercooler/RS6-LLK_Vergleich.jpg

[Shoppinit]

That's quite an impressive difference. It would be interesting to see what the results are like on a standard car though. There must be many RS6 owners who want to replace their OEM intercoolers with something better built but not necessarily bigger.

With bigger intercoolers, I'd be worried about increasing lag on the standard map.

[Lupo911]

That's quite an impressive difference. It would be interesting to see what the results are like on a standard car though. There must be many RS6 owners who want to replace their OEM intercoolers with something better built but not necessarily bigger.

With bigger intercoolers, I'd be worried about increasing lag on the standard map.

The Lag is not Incrasing with these Coolers. On a Standard Car, the Difference is not that big, because the Car runns on very low Boost.

[DHall1]

I like pretty graphs and all but

I dont like graphs that look too pretty.

I would like to see the raw data that led to the graph below. Not saying it couldnt happen this way but :eye:


http://wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS6Intercooler/RS6-LLK_Vergleich.jpg

[Shoppinit]

This should be a sticky. Too useful a thread to disappear into the archives.

[AudiRS4ever]

I'm seriously thinking about doing these and have to agree with Hall. I would love to know how these graphs came to be? I find it curious that on Wagner's website it shows in English the temperature difference. Everything else is in German. That seems a little bit odd to me. :eye: Could we get some more information please?

[Lupo911]

Ok, so, if the Graph is looking to Pretty it cant be real?! Is this what you are trying to say?

Its stated on the Picture, how the Graph came to be...
Audi RS6 520HP, ambient temp. was 27° Celsius

The Graph is not made by Wagner Tuning, its made by a Company from Switzerland.

You can contact them direct and ask... http://www.rs-werkstatt.ch (http://www.rs-werkstatt.ch/)

[AudiRS4ever]

No, that's not what I'm saying. You can put a bow on it to make it look even prettier if you want. Before you get too defensive about your product let me explain what I am trying to get at.
There is no information that I can find talking about intake temp vs exit temp, other than the one that said 75 degrees. Now here's what I would like to know, is that at idle, cruising speed, WOT? Was it the same temp, or were the stock ones tested when it was 100 degrees in the middle of the afternoon and yours tested when it was 65 degrees at 4 in the morning?
We just want more information and would like to know how it is being achieved. If a 75 degree temp difference is all you are getting, and you are removing the fog lights it seems like a minimal gain considering you are getting almost twice the air hitting them with the lights out.
Anybody should be a little skeptical of just throwing $2,000 into the wind, plus labor to install these. Also, the only part I have read that says they are Aluminum say that they are aluminum end tanks, but doesn't say what the core is. I am assuming it is also aluminum, but since it doesn't say it is I don't know.
I have to buy new intercoolers soon as I just found out Friday that I have a very small leak in both of mine. I also found out that Audi of America is a really shitty company. I am not about to spend $2,000 for another set of intercoolers that for all I know right now won't last 3 years. So please don't get defensive when people are asking questions. When you do that it makes people think that you are hiding something.
I appreciate that you gave me the name of the company in Switzerland and I may try to contact them today. I've already spoken with 330 or whatever the name of the company in California is and they are ready to have them drop-shipped. I just want a little bit more clarification before I go with these. Hope this clear some things up. Thanks! :incar:

[Daniel]

hi audirs4ever...

it will be better for you if you drive oem...

[AudiRS4ever]

Daniel,

Thank you for the response. I will probably do that. I do apologize if I came off half-cocked in the post you replied to. I really didn't mean any offense to Lupo. I just would like some more information. I'm actually pretty pissed at Audi right now, and I think that may have leaked into the post I made.
I have owned several BMW's and they have always taken care of me if something went wrong that was a known problem area, even if the car was out of warranty. When I took the RS6 in to find out why I had my first boost cut in a long time and they called me and told me I need new intercoolers, because they were both leaking I got pretty upset. I told them I didn't understand how a 22,000 mile car that is perfectly maintained already needed intercoolers.
I started reading the threads here and quickly realized that the stock coolers are pretty much junk. I did ask Audi if they would consider "Goodwill" like BMW does and they gave me a flat-out, "NO." I thought that was pretty crappy and let them know that usually I wouldn't mind paying for them, but I was just about to order KW's to fix the other problem they caused (The RS6-Allroad problem) and now I will be ordering either stock coolers, or the Wagner's.
Sorry for venting this, but I just can't believe Audi took that approach. Guess I should have listened to DHall and got the warranty. :doh: Oh well, hindsight is always 20/20. Again, sorry if I came across half-cocked last night with the post. I was just pretty pissed off at the world and probably got a little too agressive. My biggest concern with either intercooler is that I'm not replacing them 2 or 3 years later again. Thanks Daniel.

[Shoppinit]

The Audi intercoolers can leak from new.

[LIRS6]

I will attempt right (pass) side IC replacement - does the headlight really need to be removed to have full access for replacement of IC and hoses?

[JRS-RS6]

I will attempt right (pass) side IC replacement - does the headlight really need to be removed to have full access for replacement of IC and hoses?

I guess you could always remove the fender instead. For the IC the light will have to come out. The hoses could be done with it in but since it will be out it will be easier to do at that time. Make sure that the clamps go back the same or they may be in the way of installing the headlight.

[DHall1]

I call BS on the attached graph.

If proven to be wrong. I will buy chicken dinners and eat my left shoe.


http://wagner-tuning.de/images/produkte/RS6Intercooler/RS6-LLK_Vergleich.jpg

[ben916]

..You can contact them direct and ask... http://www.rs-werkstatt.ch (http://www.rs-werkstatt.ch/)

Website under construction........ fail...

[JRS-RS6]

E-mail here: info@rs-werkstatt.ch
info@rs-werkstatt.ch (info@rs-werkstatt.ch)

[LIRS6]

I call BS on the attached graph.

If proven to be wrong. I will buy chicken dinners and eat my left shoe.

Taking your earlier advice - just replacing with OEM.

[cmore]

@Audi-RS6 what were your symptoms when you have the IC leak? Do you have a boost gauge? I assume the car still felt fast, but just lacked the real punch of what it should be doing. Any idea how much boost you were building with the IC leak?

Thanks,
Chris

[JRS-RS6]

I call BS on the attached graph.

If proven to be wrong. I will buy chicken dinners and eat my left shoe.

As soon as I find a spot where I can take the car from 50 mph at roughly 2400 RPM to 155 MPH at roughly 6400 RPM in fourth gear maybe I can test this. Dave care to log the stock ones for reference? For now I don't have any place I could do this as a test. :)

Reference for top speed fourth gear: http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/15358ed4df6da46ec7099934fbc2ea2d.pdf
and using this calculator http://www.venommotorsports.com/library/tirewheelcalculator.asp stock tire sizes.

[LIRS6]

A big "thank you" to 'Audi RS6' .. and the other valuable contributors to this forum; I am not a grease monkey by any stretch, but I did manage to change the passenger intercooler thanks to the great write-up on this thread. I had a few issues, and at one point feared that I'd have to flat-bed the beast to the local dealer, but I stayed the course and managed to put everything back. well, almost everything .. some of the plastic cowling behind the small radiator shredded, but for the most part I think all is well. Will give it a test drive later today.

PS - I found a piece of plastic laying on the bottom of the belly pan - couldn't find a logical source for whence it came .. will try to post a picture of it later

[DHall1]

Good news LIRS6!

cmore, you really need to just look for the oil seepage signs from the intercoolers. shine a light in your bumper ducts and look at the lower corners of each interooler. if you see oil....you got leaks.


@Audi-RS6 what were your symptoms when you have the IC leak? Do you have a boost gauge? I assume the car still felt fast, but just lacked the real punch of what it should be doing. Any idea how much boost you were building with the IC leak?

Thanks,
Chris

[DHall1]

I dont have copilots that will ride with me. You and Pat must have a secret hwy up there. A dead end for terminal velocity runs.


As soon as I find a spot where I can take the car from 50 mph at roughly 2400 RPM to 155 MPH at roughly 6400 RPM in fourth gear maybe I can test this. Dave care to log the stock ones for reference? For now I don't have any place I could do this as a test. :)

Reference for top speed fourth gear: http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/15358ed4df6da46ec7099934fbc2ea2d.pdf
and using this calculator http://www.venommotorsports.com/library/tirewheelcalculator.asp stock tire sizes.

[DHall1]

one does not equal the other.

corky bell reading is your friend.


The Lag is not Incrasing with these Coolers. On a Standard Car, the Difference is not that big, because the Car runns on very low Boost.

[V8weight]

I dont have copilots that will ride with me. You and Pat must have a secret hwy up there. A dead end for terminal velocity runs.
Funny, not 20 minutes after you posted this, I was pulled over by a state trooper driving James' car, him in the passenger seat logging.

[kilian tuning]

But how long will that epoxy glue hold....

[MaxRS6]

Funny, not 20 minutes after you posted this, I was pulled over by a state trooper driving James' car, him in the passenger seat logging.

^^LOL- I am certain he totally understood you were only doing it for research purposes to make the world a better place..

[V8weight]

^^LOL- I am certain he totally understood you were only doing it for research purposes to make the world a better place..
Apparently so....he told me to tone it down a bit, then sent me on my way after watching me enter the freeway via an on ramp at over 110mph.

[Audi-RS6]

But how long will that epoxy glue hold....
Havent checked mine yet, should be good idea, but im sure it should hold long enough

[skyegtb]

But how long will that epoxy glue hold....

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/21018-Intercooler-refurbishment-and-replacement-pictures

1 year so far for me and still perfectly sealed. Check my thread, I did this to a brand new intercooler due to seeing how poorly manufactured they are.

[Audi-RS6]

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/21018-Intercooler-refurbishment-and-replacement-pictures

1 year so far for me and still perfectly sealed. Check my thread, I did this to a brand new intercooler due to seeing how poorly manufactured they are.

Do you have stock suspension?

[skyegtb]

Do you have stock suspension?
Nope, KW V3. Love it!

[JSRS6]

I did mine in august if i remember correctly. Still clean, no leaks.

[gt2rs6]

i just found out my intercoolers are leaking... i did a smoke and traced smoke to the IC's.. also it seams my mass air seals to the airbox are leaking as well - Mike

[JSRS6]

How did you test the maf seals? just asking because that part of the system is under suction, not pressure, so if you pressurize with smoke, it will leak. Not saying not to change them, just something to keep in mind.

[gt2rs6]

good thinking ! oops ! although the seals are still damaged and i will change them anyways. - Mike

[Amar]

My plus is with Unit 20 now for a service, timing belt, health check and both intercoolers to be repaired. One had a huge oil leak and the other side not so bad, it still dyno'd at 464.2 BHP even with leaking coolers, and it was due a service at the same time. The car is completley standard bar H&R coilovers and spacers. Will I notice a big performance gain when I get them back? Could the intercooler be the cause of my missing 13 BHP? I am hoping the service and intercoolers will get me the magic 477 BHP it should have from factory.

[Brav]

If it was a significant leak.. yes you should get some gain. Otherwise, the turbos were just working harder and spinning faster to get boost to requested level with the leaks.

[hahnmgh63]

Plus what your seeing on the Dyno is WHP (Wheel HorsePower) approx 20% less (due to drivetrain losses (transmisison, differentials) than Crank HorsePower. The engine was rated at 480bhp Crank Horse power so if your seeing 464 on the Dyno you are doing much better than a stock plus unless your already taking into account the drivetrain losses? If that is Dyno HP I would bet that your car has had a ECU tune, ask Grizz (Martin).

[Amar]

Car is with Martin now having work done, it is 464 crank and 362 at the wheels. I am 100% certain that the car is standard.

Brav - Here is a photo, it looks like a significant leak to me.

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv19/AmarS8/3ccc5194.jpg

[hahnmgh63]

Then Audi gave the Plus a very good tune or the dyno was a little weak as the only difference in the engine between the regular 6 and the + is th ECU and the regular 6's have had a tough time if only barely matching Audi's (Stock) claims after the drivetrain conversions. But since most tuners on the regular 6 claim around 500+ then the 6+ claim of 480 may have been a little conservative. The hardware between the two engines is identical.

[mdegracia]

Has anyone performed this repair while placing the intercooler under a slight vacuum, if leaks are present?

I think I'm gonna try it...then release the vacuum after a "sufficient" amount of material has been drawn into the leak...

[Shoppinit]

Don't let too much go in, you don't want bits of JB weld breaking off and being sucked into your engine.

[speedtrapped]

why not place IC under pressure??? a memeber in Uk did this when he had his removed. U can buy rubber end caps, use a schrader valve(drill hole, stick valve thru, epoxy or rubber cement to seal valve) take a big bucket, put IC's under pressure(if there is a leak, more then likely u will hear it) and dump in bucket. Same goes for jb weld fix, put under pressure, 12-16 psi and dump in bucket, look for leaks or none if u did a good job....mine went wooooosssshhhhh last year, hence the wagners(expensive, but German made-the stocks are not)

[kday]

I can see why the idea of doing it under vacuum is appealing, but I think in practice it might not work well. With the epoxy, it's sufficient cover the crack, and it's not necessary to get epoxy inside the crack itself.

[ryan4186]

Is there a way to see the original photos on the first post? I'm guessing because the thread is so old the photos disappeared? Please let me know if it's just me that can't see the original pics.

[lswing]

Is there a way to see the original photos on the first post? I'm guessing because the thread is so old the photos disappeared? Please let me know if it's just me that can't see the original pics.

You could find some using Google I'm guessing. It's fairly easy, you seeing oil seeping out or what? Remove and refurbish, or upgrade them by rebuilding.