Questions after taking the RS6 to the track...

[BenA]

So just for fun, I took my 2003 RS6 to the track (Mid-America Motorplex just south of Omaha, NE). I really did not do anything to "prepare" the car except make sure all fluids were OK and I lowered my tire pressures a little and turned off the traction control. Yes, I know that the Beast is far from a "track car" but I had a blast nonetheless.

Positives:
- I never had any overheating issues - car stayed pretty cool even after about 25 minutes of running hard... I went to the pits to cool off after 20-25 minutes of driving.
- Brakes held up pretty well - I'm sure I roasted my pads but I only noticed some fade after about 20 minutes of running. I thrashed my tires (older contis with only about 2000 miles left on them anyway) - but still the car held up great for the punishment it was taking on the 85+ degree day.

Questions:
- After my first few runs, the CEL came on. When I got home, I ran the code and it was something like "Torque converter CKT (circuit) performance or turned off" - I really didn't notice a big difference when/after it came on, so I'm guessing it was just some "shock" from pulling off the smooth interstate drive to a racetrack.
- BIGGEST question... I'm still not convinced this car has 450-500hp (I have the MTM Stage 1 chip... so supposed to be 500hp). Most of the cars I was running on the track with were new Corvette Z06s with at least 505hp, less weight, and racing tires (and better drivers) - so I was not surprised to have them blow by me... especially in the corners. I became concerned though when I came up on a new STOCK BMW 335ix (stock tires, unskilled driver, etc.)... it is much lighter but I kept right behind him in the corners waiting for the "long" (about 0.5 mile) straight to blow him out. When we got to the straight, he came out of the turn a little faster (but just barely) and I could NOT catch him in the straight!! In fact, it looked like he was walking away a bit in the straight and I had it to the floor! A new M3 with slicks also blew me away... but come on!! A 335??? Any ideas as to what might be going on? I don't have a 4WD dyno within 300 miles... any other way (take it to the dealer?) to make sure all is OK? I know the car is really heavy but it just doesn't seem to have that hammer-like impact of 500hp.

[Speedou]

Take video of the speedo. Then check from the GPS how much your speedo is showing too much. And try calculate some kind of time. Because if you get better times than standard RS6 at tests. Your car is just fine and 335 is faster than you think and it maybe got quite a lot better speed out of the corners?

[mmaturo]

So just for fun, I took my 2003 RS6 to the track (Mid-America Motorplex just south of Omaha, NE). I really did not do anything to "prepare" the car except make sure all fluids were OK and I lowered my tire pressures a little and turned off the traction control. Yes, I know that the Beast is far from a "track car" but I had a blast nonetheless.

Positives:
- I never had any overheating issues - car stayed pretty cool even after about 25 minutes of running hard... I went to the pits to cool off after 20-25 minutes of driving.
- Brakes held up pretty well - I'm sure I roasted my pads but I only noticed some fade after about 20 minutes of running. I thrashed my tires (older contis with only about 2000 miles left on them anyway) - but still the car held up great for the punishment it was taking on the 85+ degree day.

Questions:
- After my first few runs, the CEL came on. When I got home, I ran the code and it was something like "Torque converter CKT (circuit) performance or turned off" - I really didn't notice a big difference when/after it came on, so I'm guessing it was just some "shock" from pulling off the smooth interstate drive to a racetrack.
- BIGGEST question... I'm still not convinced this car has 450-500hp (I have the MTM Stage 1 chip... so supposed to be 500hp). Most of the cars I was running on the track with were new Corvette Z06s with at least 505hp, less weight, and racing tires (and better drivers) - so I was not surprised to have them blow by me... especially in the corners. I became concerned though when I came up on a new STOCK BMW 335ix (stock tires, unskilled driver, etc.)... it is much lighter but I kept right behind him in the corners waiting for the "long" (about 0.5 mile) straight to blow him out. When we got to the straight, he came out of the turn a little faster (but just barely) and I could NOT catch him in the straight!! In fact, it looked like he was walking away a bit in the straight and I had it to the floor! A new M3 with slicks also blew me away... but come on!! A 335??? Any ideas as to what might be going on? I don't have a 4WD dyno within 300 miles... any other way (take it to the dealer?) to make sure all is OK? I know the car is really heavy but it just doesn't seem to have that hammer-like impact of 500hp.

Doesn't sound right to me either. I've destroyed 335i's that were trying to outrun me on the road in at least three different encounters but have not been near one on the track, but if i can walk on them easily from a rolling start of 30+ to 80+ then you should have no problem holding your own on the track. Especially with an ix with the extra 4 wheel drive weight in it. Maybe the torque converter issue had your engine cut back on Turbo boost. Heat soak really does kick in after awhile so i know my car gets slower as it gets hotter on the track but you sound more down than that.

You should change out your brake fluid to high temp fluid (Motul etc) then you fade will be reduced. On stock fluid 20 minutes of lapping is about it. With the good stuff you can run the entire session without dramatic fade.

[BenA]

After searching more and reading more... I'm wondering if heat soak was the culprit. It was 85 degrees plus, and I was running for 20 minutes... then cool down for 40-60 minutes, then running again. Temp when I came in was around 240-250. It seemed to be worse in my last runs (last run is when I couldn't gain on that damn 335). Can heat soak zap like 50-100hp though? I don't know how significant it is.

[mmaturo]

After searching more and reading more... I'm wondering if heat soak was the culprit. It was 85 degrees plus, and I was running for 20 minutes... then cool down for 40-60 minutes, then running again. Temp when I came in was around 240-250. It seemed to be worse in my last runs (last run is when I couldn't gain on that damn 335). Can heat soak zap like 50-100hp though? I don't know how significant it is.

easily 50hp anyway (i'm stock so don't know how chip reacts)....my car is noticeably a dog at the end of a hot day. When the S4s are harder to shake i can tell. 85+ is warm.

[ttboost]

When you say 500hp you mean 500 crank right? Wouldn't that be around 400whp? Also, the car weighs around 4000lbs too. I wouldn't be too disappointed that you can't keep up with 2dr sports cars and smaller, lighter coupes...

[Audi-RS6]

Recently I discovered that my intercoolers are leaking big time in the corners, I sealed them with epoxy few days ago.
Check if you have boost leak, you maybe underpowered
I also thought that I run 500hp.


So just for fun, I took my 2003 RS6 to the track (Mid-America Motorplex just south of Omaha, NE). I really did not do anything to "prepare" the car except make sure all fluids were OK and I lowered my tire pressures a little and turned off the traction control. Yes, I know that the Beast is far from a "track car" but I had a blast nonetheless.

Positives:
- I never had any overheating issues - car stayed pretty cool even after about 25 minutes of running hard... I went to the pits to cool off after 20-25 minutes of driving.
- Brakes held up pretty well - I'm sure I roasted my pads but I only noticed some fade after about 20 minutes of running. I thrashed my tires (older contis with only about 2000 miles left on them anyway) - but still the car held up great for the punishment it was taking on the 85+ degree day.

Questions:
- After my first few runs, the CEL came on. When I got home, I ran the code and it was something like "Torque converter CKT (circuit) performance or turned off" - I really didn't notice a big difference when/after it came on, so I'm guessing it was just some "shock" from pulling off the smooth interstate drive to a racetrack.
- BIGGEST question... I'm still not convinced this car has 450-500hp (I have the MTM Stage 1 chip... so supposed to be 500hp). Most of the cars I was running on the track with were new Corvette Z06s with at least 505hp, less weight, and racing tires (and better drivers) - so I was not surprised to have them blow by me... especially in the corners. I became concerned though when I came up on a new STOCK BMW 335ix (stock tires, unskilled driver, etc.)... it is much lighter but I kept right behind him in the corners waiting for the "long" (about 0.5 mile) straight to blow him out. When we got to the straight, he came out of the turn a little faster (but just barely) and I could NOT catch him in the straight!! In fact, it looked like he was walking away a bit in the straight and I had it to the floor! A new M3 with slicks also blew me away... but come on!! A 335??? Any ideas as to what might be going on? I don't have a 4WD dyno within 300 miles... any other way (take it to the dealer?) to make sure all is OK? I know the car is really heavy but it just doesn't seem to have that hammer-like impact of 500hp.

[DHall1]

If your CEL is on and its the T/C code.

I think your down on all boost power.

Your driving a 300hp car when boost is pulled away. Actually about 280hp.

Better check your transmission.

[Hy Octane]

"I really did not do anything to "prepare" the car except make sure all fluids were OK and I lowered my tire pressures a little and turned off the traction control."

I've never heard of anyone lowering their tire pressures for the track.. usually the other way round..

[Speedou]

I've never heard of anyone lowering their tire pressures for the track.. usually the other way round..

Then you should listen more ;) There is of course a big difference in cold or warm presssures. But if you are driving on road something like 2.5 to 2.8 (bar, don't know exact PSI numebrs) and start trackin you will get you tires easily above 3, which is too much. That is why you havet to take air out of them.

[RS6-4dr911]

I think his hearing is just fine. Adding pressure before tracking is based on cold pressure and fully anticipates a rise in pressure due to temperature. Additionally, by lowering the pressure, your making the tire flex more which builds up even more heat not to mention overworking the carcass, potentially leading to failure. Each tire's a little different so there is no magic amount to add, but I run 36-38 psi (2.5b) on the street - if I were to track I'd probably bump up to 40-42 (2.8b) and wouldn't at all be surprised if when hot they measured 45-47 (3.2b).

[Speedou]

Might be. I know only that when we have been calculating all the temperatures and lap times, we get better lap times when we take air out of the tires. But yes it feels that tires doesn't like it as much. Can be worst with that heavy car? Nowadays most of us are using semislicks tires which are of course totally different story with even lower pressures.

[BenA]

Might be. I know only that when we have been calculating all the temperatures and lap times, we get better lap times when we take air out of the tires. But yes it feels that tires doesn't like it as much. Can be worst with that heavy car? Nowadays most of us are using semislicks tires which are of course totally different story with even lower pressures.


After talking to a few drivers at the track, they recommended around 37 pounds of pressure (which due to the heat would turn into 42+ on the track). The car handled well (for such a heavy beast), but yes it was hard on the tires.

[BenA]

If your CEL is on and its the T/C code.

I think your down on all boost power.

Your driving a 300hp car when boost is pulled away. Actually about 280hp.

Better check your transmission.


Thanks DHall!!
This is helpful info. I think I was experiencing heat soak but also think there is more to it than that. When you say I'm "down on all boost power" -- should I check the intercoolers for leaks? should I make sure that boost levels are properly set? check the turbos? all of the above? The car doesn't give me any codes for boost or turbo or tranny (after clearing that T/C code)-- should it? I'm not very well equipped to do this work on my own... should I take it into the dealer and just tell them "it's not fast enough" :mech:

[Skaala]

a bit off topic but; In the 5th gear episode where Tiff Needell drives the new S3 around a track, he recommends having 10% more air in the tires when going on a trackday......:confused:

[BenA]

When you say 500hp you mean 500 crank right? Wouldn't that be around 400whp? Also, the car weighs around 4000lbs too. I wouldn't be too disappointed that you can't keep up with 2dr sports cars and smaller, lighter coupes...

Yes - 500 at the crank... which is probably less than or right around 400 at the wheels. And the car is 4000+ as far as I know. The 335ix (twin turbo straight 6) is more powerful than I expected... it's around 300-340HP (BMW says 300 but it dynos higher) and it weighs in at around 3600+ pounds. Still I expected my extra 100 horses to catch up in the straight.

[DuckWingDuck]

Isn't it always more preferred to have more air pressure in the tires? Less surface area means less friction.... Or something along those lines.

[Jani]

When I track the RS6 I start with normal or high speed pressures as stated by the manual, around 3 bar all round cold. No problems with tyres, except if you have DRC issues, the shoulders of the tyres will be ruined quickly.

It is such a heavy car that the tyre sidewall flex seems like a big issue, if you lower pressure like in a 911 or some other sports car.

In a straight line you should pass 335's, but heat soak may affect that. The engine will first lose all the chipped extra, and then some more as you heat up the IC's. Pressure test of the intake system might be worth doing, maybe you are losing boost pressure somewhere, and 50-100 hp with it.

[jtessman]

Without real time data logging it is difficult to tell if it is something simple or more complex. Last time I had issues like this it turned out to be the N75.

However, when the RS6 Plus came out in Europe (480BHP) they added two additional radiators behind the IC's to handle the extra heat generated by the modest bump in performance. Sportec offers a variation with larger IC's with a tranny cooler behind one and an oil cooler behind the other. Trying to run a chipped engine hard without extra cooling leads to predictable consequences.

Of course we all know the cheapest fix is to improve the engine compartment airflow by venting the hood! This is usually good for 10-15 degrees C.

[DHall1]

You did say the CEL was on at the time.

If a TC code was stored. I think the ECU will pull your boost as a default. Thus, you would have been running around on zero boost. Now, that fact would not pull a code because the ECU was making that decision. Take the TC code away or erase all codes and the ECU will go back to calling for boost until a problem has happened again. In which case it would do it all over again.

Couple of ideas.

1. Dealer will find nothing at this point. Zero. Waste of money.
2. Go buy a Vag-Com and be ready to data log a couple of blocks when the problem comes back. It will come back.
3. Then with some real data we can help more.

Lastly, an RS6 with alittle heat soak will still blow the doors off that BMW. There is a problem with the performance. What you think of as heat soak could very well have been the ECU pulling all boost power.

"Heat Soak" Interesting topic really. A little trick at the DE or track day could be to mix up alittle go juice in one of those garden sprayer tanks. Some water and rubbing alcohol that you can spray across the rad and intercoolers after hard runs and before the next run. That will help with your heat soak.

Also the US cars with warm weather package did get those added coolers behind the intercoolers. I hope your car has that package.


Thanks DHall!!
This is helpful info. I think I was experiencing heat soak but also think there is more to it than that. When you say I'm "down on all boost power" -- should I check the intercoolers for leaks? should I make sure that boost levels are properly set? check the turbos? all of the above? The car doesn't give me any codes for boost or turbo or tranny (after clearing that T/C code)-- should it? I'm not very well equipped to do this work on my own... should I take it into the dealer and just tell them "it's not fast enough" :mech:

[BenA]

You did say the CEL was on at the time.

If a TC code was stored. I think the ECU will pull your boost as a default. Thus, you would have been running around on zero boost. Now, that fact would not pull a code because the ECU was making that decision. Take the TC code away or erase all codes and the ECU will go back to calling for boost until a problem has happened again. In which case it would do it all over again.

Couple of ideas.

1. Dealer will find nothing at this point. Zero. Waste of money.
2. Go buy a Vag-Com and be ready to data log a couple of blocks when the problem comes back. It will come back.
3. Then with some real data we can help more.

Lastly, an RS6 with alittle heat soak will still blow the doors off that BMW. There is a problem with the performance. What you think of as heat soak could very well have been the ECU pulling all boost power.

"Heat Soak" Interesting topic really. A little trick at the DE or track day could be to mix up alittle go juice in one of those garden sprayer tanks. Some water and rubbing alcohol that you can spray across the rad and intercoolers after hard runs and before the next run. That will help with your heat soak.

Also the US cars with warm weather package did get those added coolers behind the intercoolers. I hope your car has that package.


Thanks AGAIN!! Very plausible that the ECU pulled boost power. It was more noticeable after the CEL came on (and also as the weather heated up). Unfortunately I do not have the warm weather package, but I may look into the added coolers and I'll check to make sure my intercoolers are OK and that I don't have any leaks. CEL light hasn't come back (yet).

[BenA]

:confused:...one more question... if my intercoolers are leaking or I'm losing boost somewhere, will that pull a code or CEL? Is there any other type of indicator for boost loss or intercooler leak?

[DHall1]

It depends on the size of the leak.

Another reason for the Vag-com. You could spend 20 minutes on a data log and determine if you have any boost leak. Period.

Everything else is very subjective. Were not working on a Kia Rio here. There are 1,000 reasons why boost may or may not be reaching its proper level. I like to confirm the problem first and then head in the right direction before wasting my time running thru the rat maze of 1,000 reasons.

Does that make sense?


:confused:...one more question... if my intercoolers are leaking or I'm losing boost somewhere, will that pull a code or CEL? Is there any other type of indicator for boost loss or intercooler leak?

[SpinEcho]

No question that heat soak would be a big problem at the ambient temperatures you describe, but I agree with the above posts that there must be more to it (that CEL is suggestive). Last year at the track I had no problem out dragging a 135i, and that is a lighter car than the 335i.

I'm somewhat surprised to hear that your brakes held up - are they stock????

[BenA]

No question that heat soak would be a big problem at the ambient temperatures you describe, but I agree with the above posts that there must be more to it (that CEL is suggestive). Last year at the track I had no problem out dragging a 135i, and that is a lighter car than the 335i.

I'm somewhat surprised to hear that your brakes held up - are they stock????


OK - I'm going to grab a vag-com and get some more info from that. As for the brakes, I guess "held up" is subjective. To clarify, I could run for 20 minutes pretty hard before they'd start to get spongey - I never lost them completely but the fluid was obviously way hot (my mechanic didn't have any hi-temp brake fluid given the short notice of my impulsive trip to the track - so fluid was stock). My pads were almost new before the race - I'm sure I knocked thousands of miles off of them, but they're still functional.

[SpinEcho]

Yikes. I boiled my fluid the first time I took my Beast on track, at the end of a long straight doing over 200 km/h. Thankfully there was a big runoff that had not yet grassed over... The second time out, with high temp fluid, I completely destroyed a set of discs and pads. That's when I decided the stock setup was not for me!

What sort of speeds were you doing? Is the track you ran on not very hard on brakes? Or maybe I'm a brake abuser... :hihi:

[BenA]

Yikes. I boiled my fluid the first time I took my Beast on track, at the end of a long straight doing over 200 km/h. Thankfully there was a big runoff that had not yet grassed over... The second time out, with high temp fluid, I completely destroyed a set of discs and pads. That's when I decided the stock setup was not for me!

What sort of speeds were you doing? Is the track you ran on not very hard on brakes? Or maybe I'm a brake abuser... :hihi:


The track was fairly small - the longest straight allowed me to reach about 110mph and then there was a sweeping curve into a shorter straight that also allowed 110mph. Since I was a rookie, I'm sure I wasn't pushing it as hard as others would.

Now I have another brake question... My front driver-side brake makes a terrible noise (most of the time) when I slow from about 5mph to a complete stop. It doesn't make noise any other time except then - it's not the high-pitched indicator squeak but more of a mid-range resonance off the rotor. Audi dealer said rotors were great and pads had at least 50% of life remaining. Their "solution" was to go out on the backroads and "slam" on the brakes hard several times to get rid of the glaze. While that was a lot of fun, it only took care of the problem for about a day - now it's back. An old enduro racer/mechanic that works for me said that it sounds like I "baked the pads" - ie. that they were cooked or hardened somehow when I took it to the track. He suggested taking a hacksaw so them (yikes!), but I'd rather just get new pads if they are ruined (sounds like EBC reds are the best choice after searching for a while). Any other ideas/feedback? Thanks!

[DHall1]

You better do a search for some of my brake threads.

You better replace those pads asap!

You better consider the EBC Reds at 170 dollars instead of the 400 dollar POS Pagids.

IMHO.

Do a search for EBC Reds and Stock brake pads before you ruin your rotors!

Take a hacksaw. Geeez, there are idiots around every corner. You better trust us over here before you go taking hacksaws to your car. Geez


The track was fairly small - the longest straight allowed me to reach about 110mph and then there was a sweeping curve into a shorter straight that also allowed 110mph. Since I was a rookie, I'm sure I wasn't pushing it as hard as others would.

Now I have another brake question... My front driver-side brake makes a terrible noise (most of the time) when I slow from about 5mph to a complete stop. It doesn't make noise any other time except then - it's not the high-pitched indicator squeak but more of a mid-range resonance off the rotor. Audi dealer said rotors were great and pads had at least 50% of life remaining. Their "solution" was to go out on the backroads and "slam" on the brakes hard several times to get rid of the glaze. While that was a lot of fun, it only took care of the problem for about a day - now it's back. An old enduro racer/mechanic that works for me said that it sounds like I "baked the pads" - ie. that they were cooked or hardened somehow when I took it to the track. He suggested taking a hacksaw so them (yikes!), but I'd rather just get new pads if they are ruined (sounds like EBC reds are the best choice after searching for a while). Any other ideas/feedback? Thanks!

[mmaturo]

The backroads method does work but it takes several times. As you noted it takes care of it for a day or two then its back. Keep doing it. Sadly its all you can do. The EBCs thankfully are much quieter when the squeak does rear its ugly head and one quick series of runs takes care of it. I've used both the reds and the yellows and are the same performance as OEM and good for the track.

Hacksaw. Nice.

[DHall1]

Mark,

He is hitting those retaining pins. That is the grinding noise at 5mph as he is stopping.

He needs to get those pads off of there before they ruin the rotors.




The backroads method does work but it takes several times. As you noted it takes care of it for a day or two then its back. Keep doing it. Sadly its all you can do. The EBCs thankfully are much quieter when the squeak does rear its ugly head and one quick series of runs takes care of it. I've used both the reds and the yellows and are the same performance as OEM and good for the track.

Hacksaw. Nice.

[mmaturo]

Mark,

He is hitting those retaining pins. That is the grinding noise at 5mph as he is stopping.

He needs to get those pads off of there before they ruin the rotors.

Ahhh yes you are very correct. I keep putting that out of my head as i switched long ago. Although i will say i get the squeal regardless of the pad after a little glaze inducing action (track day).

[SpinEcho]

A hacksaw to the pads? Hmmm, then maybe a hammer to the discs if they are out of shape! ('warped' discs, another misconception...)

As above, you need new pads. They are most likely cooked and the high speed stop method will do nothing but endanger you. Also, I hate to be a spoilsport, but if you are getting the noise you describe, you should have another look at your discs. Do they look like they have uneven crud all over the surface? If so, your pads have baked onto the metal. In that case, you might be able to salvage the discs by installing a more abrasive pad to scrub them clean. Otherwise, it may be bye bye discs as well....

[BenA]

Mark,

He is hitting those retaining pins. That is the grinding noise at 5mph as he is stopping.

He needs to get those pads off of there before they ruin the rotors.


Thanks DHall--
That is what I was wondering. I saw the thread about those retaining pins and that was my primary concern... just over 50% life... sounds like metal on metal... The EBC Reds are on their way!!

Maybe the dealer tells me to do that so I completely hose up the rotors too and then they get to do a big $$$$ repair? Nah... I shouldn't be so cynical.

[DHall1]

That's why I put the pictures of the exact pads in that thread. I didnt believe it myself. What kind of POS pads are those Pagids.

The dealer does not know any better. Do you think any of the techs have looked into why these cars eat rotors for lunch? Nope, they just give you the bad news after its too late and you need 1000 dollar rotors on the front. What better way to run off your customers and have them sell these cars. You would think someone at the dealer level would want to be more proactive and warn RS6/RS4 owners about the needed brake maint at 50% thickness. Na, that would make too much sense.

Let me ask you this. If someone at the dealer said...."Hey, Ben these pads have retaining pins that start to hit the pads when 6mm of material is left. It may be a good idea to start thinking about a brake job before those pins start to groove your rotors." What would you say?

Now compare that with what was told to you. How do you feel?

Oh, and your welcome. Glad to help.




Thanks DHall--
That is what I was wondering. I saw the thread about those retaining pins and that was my primary concern... just over 50% life... sounds like metal on metal... The EBC Reds are on their way!!

Maybe the dealer tells me to do that so I completely hose up the rotors too and then they get to do a big $$$$ repair? Nah... I shouldn't be so cynical.

[BenA]

Let me ask you this. If someone at the dealer said...."Hey, Ben these pads have retaining pins that start to hit the pads when 6mm of material is left. It may be a good idea to start thinking about a brake job before those pins start to groove your rotors." What would you say?

Now compare that with what was told to you. How do you feel?

Oh, and your welcome. Glad to help.

:lovl: I'd probably say... "Thanks for the warning. I'd like some new brake pads, but I don't want you to put this kind on ever again... what else do you have?" And they'd probably say... "Um... uh... well... actually why don't you just drive these for a few thousand more miles... making sure to take it out and recklessly cram on the brakes whenever it makes noise... and then we'll talk again later."

Bastards! It makes no sense to me. I'll keep the old pads as evidence and take it in to the dealer and see what they have to say. I'm sure they're only acting out of ignorance and not malice. Remember I'm in Sioux Falls, South Dakota-- these guys have seen one other RS6 in their lifetimes.

[DHall1]

Just to tie up loose ends. Here is one of the threads that point you all in the right direction.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17594&highlight=ebc+red+brake+pads

The following thread shows you how to install the EBC Reds and modify them to fit properly.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17593&highlight=brake+pads

[peiserg]

Gentlemen,

Term used loosely, of course,


To add a little spice to DHall's life,

my OEM pads squealed a lot going 5 mph to stop. Brand new rotors, and brand new pads... same issue, from about day 2. So not necessarily indication of low pad, or pins in pad causing rotor eating madness.

I discussed with my tech the alleged rotor eating madness of the pagid design. He said the pins are softer material than the rotor so it's not typically an issue.

Tho i do agree.. i wish i'd saved myself the $ buying the EBC instead of the pagids.

Carry on.

[DHall1]

Yeah,

Its pretty boring down here in CG. Pool is almost done....finally.

Squeel is ok and expected with Pagids or EBC. Its more of a grind when those Pagid pins start to hit the rotor face. I do think those pins cause the grooves as they continue to grind away at the rotor face. I have seen several RS6 front rotors develop those ridges in the rotor face as the stock pads wear down.

On a side note. Upon very close inspection of the stock rotor material. It seems the metal is very porus. For a later thread. :incar:


Gentlemen,

Term used loosely, of course,


To add a little spice to DHall's life,

my OEM pads squealed a lot going 5 mph to stop. Brand new rotors, and brand new pads... same issue, from about day 2. So not necessarily indication of low pad, or pins in pad causing rotor eating madness.

I discussed with my tech the alleged rotor eating madness of the pagid design. He said the pins are softer material than the rotor so it's not typically an issue.

Tho i do agree.. i wish i'd saved myself the $ buying the EBC instead of the pagids.

Carry on.

[BenA]

OK... EBC Reds are installed. Rotors are fine. Even squeakier than the OEMs from 5 to stop, but it is a different sound... definitely a squeak now and not the grind. And it's only the front wheels. I have the OEMs and will take a look at them when I get a chance - first glance didn't reveal any pins coming through but I haven't looked at all of them. During lunch today, I will attempt to find a spot where I can do the "bedding" procedure described previously here (60 to 10 to 60 to 10 to 60...)

[hahnmgh63]

My Reds don't seem to squeal at all. Are you guys going through a bed-in procedure or just throwing them on and going? Am I just lucky?

[BenA]

My Reds don't seem to squeal at all. Are you guys going through a bed-in procedure or just throwing them on and going? Am I just lucky?

You're either lucky or my RS6 is just not the right car for my commute. My daily commute is about 4 miles on a 35mph road with about 20 stoplights. I just did the bed-in procedure (60 to 10 to 60 to 10...) about 8-10 times (is that the bed-in procedure you're referring to?). Aside from the mild amusement and potentially starting a ditch fire, it didn't do too much. Brakes really got hot and smelly -- I have racing brake fluid and the pedal was just barely starting to feel a bit soft during the last slowdown. I'm not giving up yet, maybe another bed-in during the weekend and I'll give the brakes some wear-in time as well.

Does anyone else have a slow stop-and-go commute like this and NOT have brake noise issues? Maybe the beast just is not a "daily driver" for me?:cry:

[DHall1]

As you said, the "grind" is gone and you have different squeal.

Given your drive....it may not go away.

You drive a heavy car that stops on a dime. It has 8 piston front Brembo calipers. It will make noise.

Love it or sell it.




You're either lucky or my RS6 is just not the right car for my commute. My daily commute is about 4 miles on a 35mph road with about 20 stoplights. I just did the bed-in procedure (60 to 10 to 60 to 10...) about 8-10 times (is that the bed-in procedure you're referring to?). Aside from the mild amusement and potentially starting a ditch fire, it didn't do too much. Brakes really got hot and smelly -- I have racing brake fluid and the pedal was just barely starting to feel a bit soft during the last slowdown. I'm not giving up yet, maybe another bed-in during the weekend and I'll give the brakes some wear-in time as well.

Does anyone else have a slow stop-and-go commute like this and NOT have brake noise issues? Maybe the beast just is not a "daily driver" for me?:cry:

[mmaturo]

You're either lucky or my RS6 is just not the right car for my commute. My daily commute is about 4 miles on a 35mph road with about 20 stoplights. I just did the bed-in procedure (60 to 10 to 60 to 10...) about 8-10 times (is that the bed-in procedure you're referring to?). Aside from the mild amusement and potentially starting a ditch fire, it didn't do too much. Brakes really got hot and smelly -- I have racing brake fluid and the pedal was just barely starting to feel a bit soft during the last slowdown. I'm not giving up yet, maybe another bed-in during the weekend and I'll give the brakes some wear-in time as well.

Does anyone else have a slow stop-and-go commute like this and NOT have brake noise issues? Maybe the beast just is not a "daily driver" for me?:cry:

Mine is my daily everything. Slow short commutes and slow highway to meetings in chicago traffic. I am noise free at the moment with my reds. Keep bedding them. They do occassionally squeal after i have been hard on them but it goes away unlike the OEMs.

I'm also without my car again as of today for a laundry list...
1. airbag light on (was off for just 3 days after last shop visit)
2. some type of tire balance problem at 80-90mph get vibration
3. pop in front suspension over slow driveway turn ins
4. DRC getting bouncy again (dealer has not done any new fixes yet, so no tools/parts/training)
5. front brake calipers creaking when applied at slow speeds
6. turn signal intermittently not working
7. air not cooling as much as it should
8. seeming intermittent loss of boost under even mid pedal acceleration
9. Gauge cluster top and bottom of center read out going.
10. Fuel gauge and trip computer estimate way off. Gauge says 1/4 tank, computer says 40 miles left. Next time i get in 5 miles and all the way in the red. Love it.

This is one month after my car was in the shop for a month for transmission and TC, then various other problems from that. Grrr.

[hahnmgh63]

Close to the bedding procedure I do Ben A but I do about 60 to 20 and I don't go extremely hard on them, they get hot but definitely not hot enough to smell them as you are taking the chance of glazing the new pads by really heating them up.

[V8weight]

It took about 2 weeks for my redstuff pads to bed in and stop squealing. Up until then they were in fact louder than the oem pads from 5-0mph. I bed mine from 40-0mph, then increase to 60-0. The important thing is to allow enough time for your brakes to cool off in between braking during bed-in. You don't want to just go out and start mashing on them or you'll glaze them over.

[DuckWingDuck]

I didn't bed mine in at all and no squeaking.

[BenA]

It took about 2 weeks for my redstuff pads to bed in and stop squealing. Up until then they were in fact louder than the oem pads from 5-0mph. I bed mine from 40-0mph, then increase to 60-0. The important thing is to allow enough time for your brakes to cool off in between braking during bed-in. You don't want to just go out and start mashing on them or you'll glaze them over.

Thanks Pat - This is helpful. My thinking was that I just need to give them a little more time. There seems to be some different advice on the board as to whether the brakes should cool off in between braking bed-in runs or not. I'll try the kinder/gentler way next.

[BenA]

I've been dreading doing this because I'm afraid to jinx my new quiet brake pads... but I wanted to provide an update so as not to scare anyone away from the EBC Reds. I'm up to almost 2 weeks now with no squeaking at all ever. (Knocking on wood)

[garbi]

hi
just some advise..... your car is ok.
i have been doing a lot of tracking with the rs6.
the reduction in power is all heat soak.
1) - it the oil temp gets to 130--140 then you will go on limp mode 60% power only
2) - it thats ok then your water temp gets over 110 deg then you will have lost about 30% power.

with the brakes.
just use ferodo ds 2500 , they are 100 times better then the pagids and ebc.
also replace the brake fluid with racing fluid for heat , ( good for 2 days on the track then change again.
these are perfect for track and road use , no squicks , just perfect.

all your braking problems are gone
no need for special this & that.

i hope this helps ,,,, a bit late though....ciao
garbi

[arS6]

Ben A,

A bit late but here's my $0.02.
I have to agree with DHall about the CEL. I also have the MTM stge 1 then Stg 2. I got a CEL a few weeks ago and the power did go down significantly. It wasn't a CEL for the TC, but I'm pretty sure that any CEL will put your car into LIMP MODE. When I cleared the CEL, the car felt normal again.

I'm sure the heat has a little bit to do with it too, but not that much.

[BenA]

Ben A,

A bit late but here's my $0.02.
I have to agree with DHall about the CEL. I also have the MTM stge 1 then Stg 2. I got a CEL a few weeks ago and the power did go down significantly. It wasn't a CEL for the TC, but I'm pretty sure that any CEL will put your car into LIMP MODE. When I cleared the CEL, the car felt normal again.

I'm sure the heat has a little bit to do with it too, but not that much.

Thanks for the feedback guys! I'll always accept "better late than never" insights. I don't have any more tracking (of this car at least) in my future, but if I do I'll be bring the OBDII for code clearing and watch my temps.

[Shoppinit]

Would be useful if you could post the DTC. I agree with DHall - sounds like tranny issue pulling boost.

[hahnmgh63]

BenA I'll just say that I have had no problems pulling away from a M3 ( I do have Revo flash) so a 335IX should be a bit slower than an M3, but not by much. It sounds like you are down on power. Yes you will get heat soak on the RS6 intercoolers ( I just installed the Wagners, nice product, mostly because my stock were leaking) but was your car slower from the beginning against these cars? Remember, the North American RS6's all got the extra radiators that came with the RS6+ later so engine cooling should be as big of a problem, just intake air. And from what I've seen and heard on the list and at my shop, probably close to 50% of the RS6's seem to have somewhat of an intercooler leak in one side or both, mine had a large leak in one side and a small leak in the other. I agree with Shppinit, please post your DTC, it could be the ECU reducing power for a Transmisison/TQ fault.