TT RS Autocar drive impression

[KresoF1]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Audi-TT-2.5-RS/240356/
http://www.autocar.co.uk/contentImages//Car/Audi/TT/27599103747342356x236.jpg

[Ruergard]

"Sounding the part is one thing, but the better news is that the TT RS has the performance to match: 0-62mph takes just 4.7sec, and unrestricted it will run to 174mph. To say it has a strong mid-range is a bit of an understatement, with that peak torque available from 1600rpm all the way to 5300rpm. But equally it is not shy of revving right to the redline."

:revs:

[Canadian_RS4]

Not quiet "the one to watch" as some people have been harping about.

[Leadfoot]

It sounds like my fears for the stock suspension were correct and it will be too firm, especially on UK roads. Another thing that has dulled my expectations is they didn't feel it was quite the handler of either the RS4 or R8, the R8 I could understand but the RS4 though good was not exceptional well not by lighter weight coupe standard in any case.

Everything I have been told has lead me to believe that the TT/RS is very close in ability to the Cayman S, i.e. it corners as hard, brakes as well and steers with the same precision. I hope that a proper lengthy test back home on UK roads and up against some stiff competition will prove that the TT/RS is indeed much better than this first meeting would suggest.

On a plus note they did say the engine dominates the experience which in my book is part of the reason for buying a sportscar. If you have ever driven a Viper you will know exactly how that feels, but at least with this engine being mounted in a TT it will control all of this savagery in the usual German efficiency one has come to expect from Audi and in any case if you'd wanted a wall-flower for a car then buy a Renault Scenic and be done with it

I will look forward to it's official ring time to see if it fulfils it's potential and positions itself not only ahead of the Z4M and SLK55 but hopefully ahead of the M3 too, now that would be cause for celebration and a two fingered salute to Munich. :dig:

[Canadian_RS4]

Fifth Gear gives it a 3/5 stars and says it's quiet dull apart from the engine. Also, being ahead of M3 in a straight line is nothing to be proud of.

[Leadfoot]

Fifth Gear gives it a 3/5 stars and says it's quiet dull apart from the engine. Also, being ahead of M3 in a straight line is nothing to be proud of.

Just read that one too and again it does sound like your usual Audi, ultra efficient at going very, very quickly either on the road or track but doesn't set the pulse alight.

I think it will really appeal to the usual Audi flock but if these first impressions stay that way once sampled on more familiar roads then I doubt it will pull potential customers from their usual brands which would be a shame considering the engine really does sound like it's something else.

I will hold station and wait for some decent comparison tests conducted back home before totally ruling the TT/RS out of the running as my future repalcement car.

P.S.
One thing that is concerning me is the price to start with, you really need to add at least £5K before you get a decent spec and that puts it close on £50K or twice to the price of the cheapest TT.

[Canadian_RS4]

The price is the biggest problem. It's just not very well equipped. No buckets, ugly wheels unless you splash on 20inches, no MRide etc. Spec it and it's Evora/CaymanS territory. Save up and get a used R8.

[KresoF1]

Auto Bild impressions is also not so impressive. They claim that turbo lag is noticable. My Motorpresse friend drove one as well and is unfortunately not impressed as well. TT RS is according to his email to me:"...very fast in straight line. Good(but, not excellent) around corners. Feels just like another understeer champ in his opinion. ...and sometimes he had a feeling that engine is actually too much for the chassis."

I will hold my judgement until I try it for myself.

[Canadian_RS4]

I find the TT-S is the better buy then. Has more colours too and cheaper options.

Will the RS3 be better?

[Leadfoot]

I find the TT-S is the better buy then. Has more colours too and cheaper options.

Will the RS3 be better?

My people consider the S3 as a better drive than the TT/S, even though the TT/S is the quicker on the track. It is possible that the RS3 will also be the sweeter steer, but considering what I was told all those months ago I had very high hopes for the TT/RS, even more so when I heard the price.

Edit:

Considering the price I feel the money would be better placed in an S4. It might not be as quick in a straight line but you do get the option of S/Tronic and SportDiff, plus a simply chip tune should be able to address the performance deficiency compared to the TT/RS and it also has the nicer alloy option in the RS6 look-a-likes.

[Canadian_RS4]

My people consider the S3 as a better drive than the TT/S, even though the TT/S is the quicker on the track. It is possible that the RS3 will also be the sweeter steer, but considering what I was told all those months ago I had very high hopes for the TT/RS, even more so when I heard the price.

Edit:

Considering the price I feel the money would be better placed in an S4. It might not be as quick in a straight line but you do get the option of S/Tronic and SportDiff, plus a simply chip tune should be able to address the performance deficiency compared to the TT/RS and it also has the nicer alloy option in the RS6 look-a-likes.

Yeah, but specced, the S4 is way too expensive. Also you have to take the terrible adaptive steering if you want the sport diff. The Sport seats are extra too.

[Leadfoot]

Yeah, but specced, the S4 is way too expensive. Also you have to take the terrible adaptive steering if you want the sport diff. The Sport seats are extra too.

Not in the UK you don't, you can spec sportdiff on it's own or with either damper control or the steering. I personally would pick the steering either as more assistance takes away from the experience.

You are right about the sports seats though, at £575 they aren't cheap but with that price you do get full leather.

BTW, I specced an S4 with S/Tronic and all the goodies and it's price came to £44k or roughly the same price as the starting price of the TT/RS.

[QuattroFun]

Whoa, I certainly expected a lot more praise especially when it comes to handling and driving thrills. I will also hold my final jugdement until I have a chance to try it myself, but I will certainly not order one in blind based on these reviews. The RS5 better be much, much better...

[conneem]

Much better impression from AutoTrader :0:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/car_page_content/audi_tt_rs_car_review.html

[Canadian_RS4]

Much better impression from AutoTrader :0:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/car_page_content/audi_tt_rs_car_review.html

Not a professional review magazine.

[inF]

http://cars.uk.msn.com/Reviews/article.aspx?cp-documentid=147599923

:/

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

concerning the first reviews, what is your personal expectation out of the TTRS?

Qisha

[Leadfoot]

Dear Friends,

concerning the first reviews, what is your personal expectation out of the TTRS?

Qisha

May I give my own personal opinion on what I am expecting from quattroGmbH working their magic on the TT chassis.

1/ It is grip harder and longer than any other TT, i.e. resist understeer for as long as is possible from a fwd based awd chassis.
2/ To have decent steering feel, again much better than the normal TT or TT/S.
3/ To have brakes that resist fade and be suitable for trackdays with nothing more than maybe competition pads.
4/ To feel composed over demanding roads and fill the driver with confidence to exploit the chassis and grip to the full.
5/ To make you the driver get a special experience driving it and to have a chassis the can be adjusted with throttle inputs.

I am pretty sure that the TT/RS has got all of the above ticked as job done with the possible exception being the fifth which I think is only partly complete, I know from even these first impressions that it is something special but it appears to not involve the driver as much as we all had hoped.

After all the praise given towards the TT/S and the S4 I suppose I expected greatness. Though I will hold judgement until I actually drive it myself because everyone looks for different things from the driving experience and this may very well be right up my street.

P.S.
Not that it's a deal breaker but Qisha can you give us any idea as to a possible ring time for the TT/RS?

[SigmaS6]

concerning the first reviews, what is your personal expectation out of the TTRS?
What bothers me the most is that the car seems to be in the 'nice ride, but nothing exceptional' category, which I didn't expect. Maybe it's because it's compared to real supercars, maybe it just is a bit dull. I'd like to see some references though where it's compared to the TTS so that I can see the improvements, I'm not so much interested in reading that the R8 might be the better sports car (it was designed to be, so it better is).

Plus I'm a bit alarmed to read in this forum that people report lag from this engine, which based on the numbers seems to be impossible to me.

Also Audi handed out only cars with sports suspension, so the bit I was hoping to get some insights on, the SS vs. MR, was left out and probably will be till the first demo cars are delivered, which will probaly take another month.

[Leadfoot]

What bothers me the most is that the car seems to be in the 'nice ride, but nothing exceptional' category, which I didn't expect. Maybe it's because it's compared to real supercars, maybe it just is a bit dull. I'd like to see some references though where it's compared to the TTS so that I can see the improvements, I'm not so much interested in reading that the R8 might be the better sports car (it was designed to be, so it better is).

I think expectations must have been very high, probably the pricing (Cayman S money) has caused everyone including myself to think it must be incredible. Maybe we all need to come back to the real world and think of it as an exceptional TT/S, i.e. better everything but at a price.


Plus I'm a bit alarmed to read in this forum that people report lag from this engine, which based on the numbers seems to be impossible to me.

On this subject I think we best listen to Kreso, he say a while ago about the refinement and balance wasn't Audi's usual standard and so far some reports are saying just that. The only report about turbo lag is again from Kreso, with the rest either not noticing it which is a good thing and proves it's very slight or they plain forgot which is worse.

My guess is it's slight and no worse than either the TT/S or 335i.


Also Audi handed out only cars with sports suspension, so the bit I was hoping to get some insights on, the SS vs. MR, was left out and probably will be till the first demo cars are delivered, which will probaly take another month.

I have to agree, why on earth did they not hand out some examples with MR, I get it that SS is standard but I bet some examples had sports Recaros. Hopefully this will be sorted prior to delivery as Autocar and other will probably get to try it soon back of British roads.

[Qisha]

I have to agree, why on earth did they not hand out some examples with MR, I get it that SS is standard but I bet some examples had sports Recaros. Hopefully this will be sorted prior to delivery as Autocar and other will probably get to try it soon back of British roads.

Dear Leadfoot,

well- actually they had the choice. :jlol:

Qisha

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4604/bild01109939.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bild01109939.jpg)
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/591/bild012818740.jpg (http://img40.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bild012818740.jpg)
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/456/bild01089941y.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bild01089941y.jpg)
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9158/bild012718741.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bild012718741.jpg)

[Leadfoot]

Look at the amount of RS TTs, man those journalists are lucky Bs.

I look forward to getting a test drive myself but alas I will have to wait a few months for that experience to happen.

[SigmaS6]

Having read a few more reviews I begin to wonder if the press got the idea behind the car. It seems to me that all the negative reviews are based on the sheer disappointment that the TT-RS is basically a TTS with a more aggressive engine, firmer steering and suspension (SS and MR) and some small goodies inside and outside the car.

Currently I don't see why this can be a let down, as it should be clear that an awd car based on the PQ platform can never offer the same level of road feeling a mid engine rwd car like the Cayman S can.

I'd really be interested in some track times as I could imagine that the TT-RS is actually up to par with those praised rivals but reaches that without the driver having to fight. If this is a bug or feature remains for the customer to decide I'd say.

[The Pretender]

Another disappointing review.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=149186?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1 .*&mktcat=enabler&AID=10364102&PID=3323800&kw=N&synpartner=edmunds&mktid=cj260233

[Ruergard]

I think this car has (big) room for improvement, both in the engine and the chassis. Just like the old S2...

[The Pretender]

The best impression is the one you make yourself.

[Leadfoot]

Having read a few more reviews I begin to wonder if the press got the idea behind the car. It seems to me that all the negative reviews are based on the sheer disappointment that the TT-RS is basically a TTS with a more aggressive engine, firmer steering and suspension (SS and MR) and some small goodies inside and outside the car.

Currently I don't see why this can be a let down, as it should be clear that an awd car based on the PQ platform can never offer the same level of road feeling a mid engine rwd car like the Cayman S can.

I'd really be interested in some track times as I could imagine that the TT-RS is actually up to par with those praised rivals but reaches that without the driver having to fight. If this is a bug or feature remains for the customer to decide I'd say.

Very well put and I must admit that I had come to the same conclusion.

I too will look forward to some proper tests being conducted and hopefully a few decent track times, though when you look how well the TT/S has done I think it's a cert that the RS will improve of this and by quite some margin.

[Leadfoot]

I just noticed that you can no longer config the TT/RS in the Audi UK website. I wonder is there going to be a rethink of final spec?

[pampas]

Whoever likes the TT-S will love this car!! It's nothing more than what an RS is: a more sportier/faster car than it's standard model. If you compare it to exotic cars (like the R8) it will fail to meet your expectations, but it should be compared to cars in it's class. R8 is not an everyday car, I only drive it like once-twice a month, mainly on the track, it's to stiff and hard to drive in the city. But the RS cars are ussually best combination for an everyday car and a super car.
I wait for the RS5, but even if it will be faster than the R8 (in a straight line) it still won't be a better race track car, and I know it. I don't even expect it to be!
R8 should be the best Audi car, as it is positioned to be there, with the specs and price!

Who finds the regular TT fit for their "needs" but need more power and can afford it, I bet they will buy it. It's not a huge segment, but Audi will not produce it in A4 numbers.

It's an RS car and I respect it for what that brings.

[Canadian_RS4]

Whoever likes the TT-S will love this car!! It's nothing more than what an RS is: a more sportier/faster car than it's standard model. If you compare it to exotic cars (like the R8) it will fail to meet your expectations, but it should be compared to cars in it's class. R8 is not an everyday car, I only drive it like once-twice a month, mainly on the track, it's to stiff and hard to drive in the city. But the RS cars are ussually best combination for an everyday car and a super car.
I wait for the RS5, but even if it will be faster than the R8 (in a straight line) it still won't be a better race track car, and I know it. I don't even expect it to be!
R8 should be the best Audi car, as it is positioned to be there, with the specs and price!

Who finds the regular TT fit for their "needs" but need more power and can afford it, I bet they will buy it. It's not a huge segment, but Audi will not produce it in A4 numbers.

It's an RS car and I respect it for what that brings.

Weird... I always thought the whole point of the R8 was that it was an EVERYDAY sports car. I mean most people drive their 911s everyday.

[Ruergard]

Weird... I always thought the whole point of the R8 was that it was an EVERYDAY sports car. I mean most people drive their 911s everyday.

I guess that's a personal opinion. A lot of people uses their R8s everyday with no problems.

[KresoF1]

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=19976

[pampas]

I guess that's a personal opinion. A lot of people uses their R8s everyday with no problems.

Indeed, you can use the the R8 with no problems. But if potholes are a problem, then the use of a really stiff car that sits pretty low can become a problem. Until now, I have change twice the rear tire (rim scratched/bented). I find the S5 as a much better car for my place (in my personal opinion), that's why I also think the TT-RS or other RS cars are better for excited people who drive in the city mostly, not so much on the track.

[Leadfoot]

IT’S the mightiest TT ever – and we’ve driven it! This is the stunning new RS version, which has been inspired by Audi’s legendary Eighties road-going rally car, the Quattro.

Like its spiritual predecessor, it features a five-cylinder turbocharged engine, but the all-new 2.5-litre TFSI unit boasts 335bhp – the original Quattro mustered 'only' around 200bhp by comparison. Add in sports suspension, quattro four-wheel drive and huge brakes, and you've got a real recipe for excitement.

Priced from £42,985 for the Coupe and £44,885 for the Roadster version, you’d hope that the RS stands out from more regular TTs. And it does. In comes a set of R8-style front air intakes, 18-inch alloys and larger twin chrome exhaust pipes. However, the fixed rear spoiler looks rather aftermarket – thankfully, you can specify a more discrete pop-up version if you want.

Inside, there are sports seats clad in Silk Nappa leather, aluminium pedals and a chunky flat-bottomed steering wheel complete with RS badging.

Twist the key and the new engine fires up with a bark from the twin exhausts. And it’s clear from the off that it’s a very special unit. First of all, it boasts amazing flexibility, thanks to a torque peak of 450Nm, which arrives from just 1,600rpm right up to 5,300rpm.

Together with that deep-chested mid-range urge, there’s neck-snapping top-end punch too – with 335bhp available from 5,400rpm all the way to 6,700rpm. Indeed, with a 0-62mph time of 4.6 seconds and storming in-gear pace, it feels every bit as quick as a V8-engined R8.

If anything, though, the sound is even more of a highlight. There’s a lovely off-beat warble, reminiscent of the original Quattro, but it’s supremely smooth. There’s a sport button too, which as well as sharpening throttle and steering response, opens up baffles in the exhausts. The result is very loud – with even more bass at low-speed and a metallic zing at high-revs.

Riding on optional 19-inch alloys, but without Audi’s clever magnetic damping system (it’s an optional extra), our test car coped well on Germany’s smooth roads – but it’s likely to feel very firm on bumpy UK tarmac.

Around corners the TT RS grips hard – so hard that it’s difficult to get near its enormous limits. Eventually it will understeer but a lift of the throttle will see it tighten its line keenly yet safely. Unlike the R8 and much-missed RS4, its quattro four-wheel drive system isn’t rear-biased, so the TT RS isn’t quite as much fun – and despite heavier and more precise steering than a TT S, the wheel doesn’t brim with feel, so a Porsche Cayman still edges it on driver appeal.

But it’s still hugely capable – and highly desirable. And thanks to that characterful engine, it’ll still put a huge smile on your face.


<LI itxtvisited="1">Rating: http://photos.autoexpress.co.uk/images/rating_4.gif

I think this is the first review that finally realised that the TT/RS has a Haldex system instead on the Torsen system and thus it doesn't offers a proper rear biased torque split. Also it isn't a Cayman, it's an Audi so it will majors on efficient/safe ground coverage instead of driver involvement. No car matches the Porsche on this front so why would one expect Audi to do it.

I think I am starting to understand this car, it's still very much old school Audi Quattro in that it will be safe and secure but because of it's weight it will change direction, corner and lap with the best of them but do so without the car or the driver breaking a sweat.

[Brakedust]

I love the TT and thought that the new one was a real step forward versus the original, dynamically. Each successive model seems to improve on the driving experience it offers. Although I've only had a limited test drive experience of the TT-S, I thought it was sensational. The TT-RS is everything you could possible want in a TT, except that S-Tronic auto is not yet available. I love the engine and think that it is a very innovative solution.

While I have no issues with what the car offers in terms driving experience, cabin ambiance, and build quality, I agree that its pricing is too high. As good as the car is, you can't help reminding yourself that it is still the same basic platform as the Golf and A3 underneath. You can buy two new Golf GTI's for the price of one TT-RS? I just hope Audi reconsiders how much it charges.

[youry]

using that principle you can say that an RS4 is build on a a simple A4 platform where TDI engines are built on too. platfourm used accross the board of other VAG cars including skodas...

how about an RS6 with base price at over 100000 EUR build on same platform as simple A6 TDI 140 b ase as well. plafor mused to build VW passats..... and SKODAS as well.....

you see the point I think...

[Leadfoot]

using that principle you can say that an RS4 is build on a a simple A4 platform where TDI engines are built on too. platfourm used accross the board of other VAG cars including skodas...

how about an RS6 with base price at over 100000 EUR build on same platform as simple A6 TDI 140 b ase as well. plafor mused to build VW passats..... and SKODAS as well.....

you see the point I think...

You could use this principle to all brands of high performance models, Porsche's GT2 costs more than 2 times as much as a Carrera C2, the M3 costs twice as much as a 316i, etc, etc, etc, etc.

My real problem with the TT/RS is that they have placed items in the options list that were standard spec on a TT/S. MR should have been standard, as should 19" alloys, both things that would justify it's £10K increase over the TT/S.

Some reviewers are saying that Audi dropped the ball with the entertainment value of it's latest RS model, I don't know about that one but they definitely did on the overall value of what you are actually getting for your dosh. This product should not have commanded the same basic price as a Cayman S. NEVER. :nono:

In my mind it's £3k too dear.

[Canadian_RS4]

You could use this principle to all brands of high performance models, Porsche's GT2 costs more than 2 times as much as a Carrera C2, the M3 costs twice as much as a 316i, etc, etc, etc, etc.

My real problem with the TT/RS is that they have placed items in the options list that were standard spec on a TT/S. MR should have been standard, as should 19" alloys, both things that would justify it's £10K increase over the TT/S.

Some reviewers are saying that Audi dropped the ball with the entertainment value of it's latest RS model, I don't know about that one but they definitely did on the overall value of what you are actually getting for your dosh. This product should not have commanded the same basic price as a Cayman S. NEVER. :nono:

In my mind it's £3k too dear.

Yeah, and options on the TT-S are cheaper too methinks. TT-RS with options is the same price as an M3, which much faster, more fun, more practical except for the AWD.

[Marv]

Not in the UK you don't, you can spec sportdiff on it's own or with either damper control or the steering. I personally would pick the steering either as more assistance takes away from the experience.

You are right about the sports seats though, at £575 they aren't cheap but with that price you do get full leather.

BTW, I specced an S4 with S/Tronic and all the goodies and it's price came to £44k or roughly the same price as the starting price of the TT/RS.

Bit off topic but....
You do need dynamic steering with sport diff (check the latest spec pdf) - I think it's to do with the ESP interaction. It's a bit sad really, the dynamic steering is precise and has a good tunrs to lock ratio but it just feels unnatural. I'm still getting used to it.


I think we have much higher expectation of quattro gmbh RS cars after they produced the awesome b7 RS4 and whatever involvement they had in the R8 - the b7 RS4 has a flawed chassis what with all thet weight out in front of the nose and still they engineered a spectacular car. I was expecting the same miracle with the TTRS but it seems not to be.

[Leadfoot]

Bit off topic but....
You do need dynamic steering with sport diff (check the latest spec pdf) - I think it's to do with the ESP interaction. It's a bit sad really, the dynamic steering is precise and has a good tunrs to lock ratio but it just feels unnatural. I'm still getting used to it.

No, you need either dynamic steering or the damping control, one or the other but not both, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.


I think we have much higher expectation of quattro gmbh RS cars after they produced the awesome b7 RS4 and whatever involvement they had in the R8 - the b7 RS4 has a flawed chassis what with all thet weight out in front of the nose and still they engineered a spectacular car. I was expecting the same miracle with the TTRS but it seems not to be.

They had total involvement in the R8. The problem is the limitation bestowed with Haldex, you can only shift up to 50% of the power to the rear and no more, so at best it can reduce the onset of understeer but stop it completely. One thing I think we will find out about the TT/RS is that it has higher lateral Gs than the RS4 and thus will actually corner harder before understeer takes control.

Be in no doubt that the TT/RS is still an extremely quick car on the track and will probably be as quick as a Cayman and quicker than the RS4.

[OfftheHeZie]

If they just mounted the engine properly they could say screw Haldex and move on to their current torsen system in all other RS cars.

BTW, does anyone know for a fact, how the R8's AWD system is setup? I can't find any information on it. Not talking about the torque split, talking about the hardware.

~Mason

[The Pretender]

If they just mounted the engine properly they could say screw Haldex and move on to their current torsen system in all other RS cars.

BTW, does anyone know for a fact, how the R8's AWD system is setup? I can't find any information on it. Not talking about the torque split, talking about the hardware.

~Mason
http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Audi/R8/Technical/096.jpg
http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Audi/R8/Technical/098.jpg
http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Audi/R8/Technical/106.jpg

[SigmaS6]

'Just' swapping the transversal engine with a longitudinal one including the adaptations to the gear box and rest of the drivetrain on a PQ platform car is probably the most expensive operation you could try. Plus the haldex itself is not the problem, look at the Veyron. The problem is that you can't detach the front axle, if they had put a second clutch in there you would be able to give more than 50% of the power to the back. But I guess they ran out of space with this idea as well...

[The Pretender]

The best solution would be a longitudinal inline five 2.5TFSI engine with the Nissan GT-R way.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/gtr_detail10.jpg

[OfftheHeZie]

Very nice, thanks Pretender. I think the R8 uses a viscous coupling center diff and a torsen rear diff. Something about the torsen wasn't well equipped to handle such quick revvs. But the RS4 manages very well I think. Anyone confirm this? Guess it's not really important, but a different approach to their drive train than before.

Probably have this in the wrong forum too :/

~Mason

[Marv]

No, you need either dynamic steering or the damping control, one or the other but not both, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.



Leadie

Not wanting to pick an argument for the sake of it (especially not an S4 argument in a TTRS thread - sorry!) but I'd be pretty pissed of with Audi if you can order the sports diff without dynamic steering (I tried when I ordered mine - I didn't want the dynamic steering but was told I had to). Also, the May 09 spec guide for the A4 says: Audi quattro Sports differential (must be combined with Audi drive select with dynamic steering)

Not of course that Audi doesn't change things all the time just to piss its customers off - when I ordered my S4 in March you couldn't order the RS6 style wheels - grrrr

Anyway...back on topic

I've no doubt the TTRS will be faster round corners than the b7 RS4 it's just that the reviews so far seem to suggest the TTRS is lacking that extra bit of magic that quattro gmbh managed to distill into the RS4. The difference that sets an RS car apart form the standard S cars - it's not just about efficient speed and safety, it's the emotional fun thing that just puts a smile on your face whenever you drive it. Let's wait to see what the group tests bring...

[Leadfoot]

Leadie

Not wanting to pick an argument for the sake of it (especially not an S4 argument in a TTRS thread - sorry!) but I'd be pretty pissed of with Audi if you can order the sports diff without dynamic steering (I tried when I ordered mine - I didn't want the dynamic steering but was told I had to). Also, the May 09 spec guide for the A4 says: Audi quattro Sports differential (must be combined with Audi drive select with dynamic steering)

Not of course that Audi doesn't change things all the time just to piss its customers off - when I ordered my S4 in March you couldn't order the RS6 style wheels - grrrr

Marv, I don't know what to say, the info I have was prior to the S4 being launched and could indeed be old. But to my defence you can in fact config an S4 with sportsdiff without the need for either damping control or dynamic steering, the only thing you definitely need to add and the 'Audi configurator' does promte you is Audi select. According to it you can get Sportsdiff for only £740 (£460 for diff + £280 for Audi select).

So it appears that both of us were wrong.


Anyway...back on topic

I've no doubt the TTRS will be faster round corners than the b7 RS4 it's just that the reviews so far seem to suggest the TTRS is lacking that extra bit of magic that quattro gmbh managed to distill into the RS4. The difference that sets an RS car apart form the standard S cars - it's not just about efficient speed and safety, it's the emotional fun thing that just puts a smile on your face whenever you drive it. Let's wait to see what the group tests bring...

I've driven the TT/S quite a few times and never once did it leave me feeling that the driving experience was boring or that uninspiring. Maybe some people's expectations are different, I know that nothing else that Audi produces gets close to the experience you get from driving an R8 and if they (the press) are gauging the TT/RS on that experience then it's understandable to be left feeling a little cold.

Like yourself I patiently wait a proper comparison group test to see how it presents itself. If it's compared against a Cayman S then I know it won't have it's involvement, few cars do, but apart from the P cars I would expect the TT/RS to be as good as the rest on this. OK maybe the 370z will be a more intense experience but after that it should be top. And as I have already said the TT/RS will be the match of the best on the track.

[Leadfoot]

Right, I have finally read Jamie's full article for AUTOCAR.

Basically the engine is very much the star of the experience, it appears to have incredible acceleration EVERYWHERE, regardless of rev point or gear which is something that one couldn't say about any extremely high revving, high performance N/A car and that includes the likes of the RS4, M3 and even the R8v8. Comments like 'whips up to its 155mph limit with comical ease' and 'not only outpunch a Cayman S but also trouble a 911' tells you that this is like no other TT.

His also reckons that it's cross country pace must far outpunch it's power to weight, again his most telling comment is 'there are faster cars than the TT/RS, but across roads like these (narrow in places, with odd cambers and tightening apexes) the list would be short and include serious names like the 911 GT3.' Most of it's pace in these conditions are to do with the engine and it's flexibility but also the ease with how it can be placed on the road and the confidence the car brings.

The major controls like steering, brakes and throttle are more precise and meatier than the TT/S which if you think is pretty good already then they will be very pleased with the TT/RS.

Negative points are the normal ones. The quattro system used in the TT/RS doesn't allow for the throttle adjust-ability that is present in it's rwd rivals or even the RS4, but then only the RS4 has the same all-weather pace that no rwd rival can muster. But the one that is the bigger surprise is it's suspension control quality and how bumps affect it. The test car as with most reviews was equipped with 19" and standard sports suspension, maybe this setup looks best but I will expect a 18" with MR to perform like night and day better.

The impression I got from the review was a promising car that does move things on from where the TT/S left off but unlike the TT/S where nothing single element shouted out as better than any other, in the TT/RS the engine is the star and all the rest can't quite live up to it's standard or character. It's a car that most will pick over the likes of the SLK55 and Z4 sDrive35i but it's not as rewarding a drive as the Cayman S and to ask the same money means you are choosing the TT over the Porsche for more personal reasons than ability and entertainment.

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

keep the faith! :ttaddict:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvumpR3HMyU

Qisha

PS: who catches sight of the special Pacecar? ;)

[Leadfoot]

Dear Friends,

keep the faith! :ttaddict:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvumpR3HMyU

Qisha

PS: who catches sight of the special Pacecar? ;)

OK, I have viewed it a few times and I see both pacecars (each TT/RS models) but because of the poor video I can't tell what is special about them.

Does one have livery for the likes of LeMans (i.e. official 24hr LeMans pacecar)?

[Qisha]

Dear Leadfoot,

there have been several TT Pace cars over the years: :0:

Qisha

http://www.traumautoarchiv.de/Autos/Audi/TT%20Coupe%203.2%20quattro%20Le%20Mans%20Safety-Car%20%272006%20(3).jpg
http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/audi_tts_official_safety_car.jpg
http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Motorsport/Sportscar-GT/Le%20Mans/2006/08%20Around%20the%20Track/001.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3112/dsc013049bb.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1445/dsc013010fs.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8890/dsc013006qa.jpg

[Leadfoot]

I take it from this that I was correct and the pacecar is the video is indeed the pacecar that will be at this year's LeMans race.

P.S.
I am so in love with the engine note of the TT/RS, Audi really do need to bring this engine to a much wider audience.

[Leadfoot]

Maybe Qisha can confirm this or not but I was told to expect the TT/RS to post a 10.8s time for 160km/h and 16.1s for 200km/h. If true these are very good times that combined with it's low weight and undoutable grip should make for some very interesting track times to be expected with it's first proper testdrives.

[youry]

the 0 to 200Km/h is officially stated at 15.9 sec.

[Leadfoot]

the 0 to 200Km/h is officially stated at 15.9 sec.

I know the official time but this info came by someone friendly with a magazine that tried it out in those 'first drive' reviews on a public road which is less than ideal. That means in ideal conditions on a proper track you could be looking at even better than official. :0:

That places it slap bang in the middle of R8, RS4 and M3 figures.

[PANZER]

No, you need either dynamic steering or the damping control, one or the other but not both, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.



They had total involvement in the R8. The problem is the limitation bestowed with Haldex, you can only shift up to 50% of the power to the rear and no more, so at best it can reduce the onset of understeer but stop it completely. One thing I think we will find out about the TT/RS is that it has higher lateral Gs than the RS4 and thus will actually corner harder before understeer takes control.

Be in no doubt that the TT/RS is still an extremely quick car on the track and will probably be as quick as a Cayman and quicker than the RS4.

I have read about the Haldex system that it can transfer up to 100% of power to the rear wheels if it has to.
Example if the front wheels of the car stands on a ice patch.
Its in the programing of the system how rear based the car will be.

Also Ace Competition here in Sweden offers a controller box thats Haldex themself makes to older 1 & 2 Gen Haldex cars thats makes them more rear based AWD.
But they do not make them to the newer Gen Haldex 3 & 4 mayby its not necessary?

Some of the tester reported that the TTRS wasn't that fun to drive and that its understeers.
I wonder if the Haldex XWD diff that was first used 2007 in the Saab 9-3 Aero and now also in the Opel Insignia would help?
The XWD is a eLSD thats distributes torque between left and right rear wheel and between front and rear axles, why didn't Audi use it?

Read about it here:http://www.haldex-xwd.com/

[Leadfoot]

We have debated this many times now, many including myself were sure the TT/RS would have XWD but it seems to offer nothing different from the TT/S. Unlike some here I can really speak for the reason why all Haldex systems can only send 50% to the rear. Ice is different because it totally torque available and not total power.

Best wait and drive it ourselves before we making a conclusion on why Audi chose against this.

[Michal12]

I am getting confused. I understand there is no Sport diff (the one from V6 TT S4) in TT RS and it can neither be ordered as an option??
Why is that?

[The Pretender]

I am getting confused. I understand there is no Sport diff (the one from V6 TT S4) in TT RS and it can neither be ordered as an option??
Why is that?
Because they are two different system's.
The Haldex coupling is in the same place where the S4 have the sport diff.
Remove the Haldex and there is no 4WD in the TT RS.