Latest News!!!!! Porsche and VW fusion!!!!

[itisme]

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,623286,00.html



Porsche strebt statt Übernahme Fusion mit VW an

Der Sportwagenhersteller Porsche strebt statt einer Übernahme von Volkswagen jetzt eine Fusion mit dem Wolfsburger Unternehmen an. Die Familiengesellschafter von Porsche hätten sich für die Schaffung eines integrierten Automobilkonzerns ausgesprochen, erklärte ein Sprecher in Stuttgart.

Dabei sollen zehn Marken unter einer einheitlichen Führungsgesellschaft operieren.

Die Eigenständigkeit aller Marken soll gewahrt bleiben. Zuvor hatten die Familien Porsche und Piëch in Salzburg über die Zukunft des Stuttgarter Sportwagenbauers Porsche und Volkswagens beraten. Porsche hält an dem größten europäischen Autohersteller knapp 51 Prozent der Anteile.

Porsche will be integrated into Volkswagen as one of ten brands

each shell be independend

[itisme]

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1514898,00.jpg




Porsche strebt statt Übernahme Fusion mit VW an

Der Sportwagenhersteller Porsche strebt statt einer Übernahme von Volkswagen jetzt eine Fusion mit dem Wolfsburger Unternehmen an. Die Familiengesellschafter von Porsche hätten sich für die Schaffung eines integrierten Automobilkonzerns ausgesprochen.

Stuttgart - Porsche will mit Volkswagen einen gemeinsamen Autokonzern schaffen. Dabei sollen zehn Marken unter einer einheitlichen Führungsgesellschaft operieren, wie Porsche am Mittwoch nach einem Treffen der Eigentümergesellschaften mit dem Porsche-Vorstand mitteilte.

Die Eigenständigkeit aller Marken soll gewahrt bleiben. Zuvor hatten die Familien Porsche und Piëch in Salzburg über die Zukunft des Stuttgarter Sportwagenbauers Porsche und Volkswagens beraten. Porsche hält an dem größten europäischen Autohersteller knapp 51 Prozent der Anteile.
Auf dieser Grundlage würden die beiden Unternehmen Volkswagen und Porsche in einer gemeinsamen Arbeitsgruppe die Gespräche unter maßgeblicher Einbeziehung des Landes Niedersachsen als größten Mitaktionär sowie den Arbeitnehmervertretern beider Unternehmen vertiefen.
Eine Entscheidungsgrundlage für die neue Struktur solle innerhalb von vier Wochen vorliegen, hieß es weiter. VW und Porsche sollen in gemeinsamen Arbeitsgruppe eine Lösung finden. Der Großaktionär Niedersachsen und die Arbeitnehmervertreter beider Unternehmen sollen dabei "maßgeblich" einbezogen werden.

Der Niedersächsische Ministerpräsident Christian Wulff erklärte: "Wir sind zu Gesprächen bereit, die zügig mit allen Beteiligten von Porsche, Volkswagen, den Arbeitnehmervertretern und dem Land Niedersachsen geführt werden sollten." Niedersachsen hält eine Sperrminorität bei VW und muss allen wichtigen Entscheidungen zustimmen.

In this text it is said, that a solution will be made within 4 weeks and then Porsche is a part of VAG

[itisme]

http://www.reuters.com/article/managementIssues/idUSL698092420090506


* Ten brands to be united under one roof

* Working party to come up with plan in four weeks

* Clans meet to try to solve problem of 9 bln eur debt pile

* Porsche SE shares end higher, Volkswagen lower (Recasts story with Porsche, VW comments)

FRANKFURT, May 6 (Reuters) - Porsche Automobil Holding SE (PSHG_p.DE) and its Volkswagen (VOWG.DE) unit will create an integrated carmaking group that unites 10 brands under one roof, Porsche said on Wednesday.

The decision emerged from a meeting of the extended clan that owns Porsche and executives from VW, already Europe's biggest carmaker, to thrash out a strategy for Porsche's stalled takeover of VW.

"In the final structure ten brands shall stand below an integrative leading company alongside each other, whereby the independence of all brands and explicitly also of Porsche shall be ensured," a statement said.

It gave no more details for the plan, would it said would include unspecified "capital measures".

The goal was to work out final details in the next four weeks after talks with VW's home state of Lower Saxony -- which can veto any sweeping changes at VW -- and labour leaders.

Volkswagen now has nine brands. The Porsche sports car band is held separately by the holding company owned in turn by the Porsche and Piech families.

Earlier, sources familiar with the matter told Reuters on that debt-laden Porsche had abandoned its target of reaching a 75 percent majority holding in Volkswagen.

Porsche said in early January it controls about 51 percent of Volkswagen's voting shares and had repeatedly said it wants to raise its voting stake to just above 75 percent this year should economic conditions allow.

Worsening conditions on the credit markets have made refinancing Porsche's 9 billion euros ($11.98 billion) in net debt more difficult.

It has also become tougher to finance the bid for complete financial control over VW, known as a "domination agreement." Analysts predict Porsche would need at least an additional 13 billion euros to take their stake above 75 percent.

Porsche shares closed up 1.2 percent, while Volkswagen stock eased 0.4 percent, before the news was announced. The more liquid VW preferred shares (VOWG_p.DE) slipped 1.7 percent. (Reporting by Christiaan Hetzner, Jan Schwartz, Edward Taylor and Philipp Halstrick; Editing by Rupert Winchester)

[Erik]

Thanks for the update. Appreciate it.

[AndyBG]

so, after so many years, finaly and officialy...

[Audiphile]

Good news for Audi as Audi is better positioned to speed ahead of Porsche in the group.

[tailpipe]

I am itching to find out what has happened to Wiedeking.

I wonder if he will go to Audi? or be fired?

[itisme]

I am itching to find out what has happened to Wiedeking.

I wonder if he will go to Audi? or be fired?


so far it is rumored, he`ll stay @ porsche... but it is not yet decided who`ll be CEO of the new holding. Winterkorn is the favourit.

It is said that Winterkorn is a genious engineer and Wiedeking is the one who`s gonna make it financiable...

[roadrunner]

The merger is a done deal, BUT there are still open questions, that will be clarified in the next weeks - and therefore show us the true "new" power distribution:

Who will be the new CEO of the new group?
Where will be the HQ situated?
What role will the state of lower sachsony play in the future model?

In my opinion all the aces are in VW & Piech hands :thumb:: - and i'm confinced it is not for the worse for Porsche cars

9 bn EUR debt on Porsche side, 10 bn cash on VW side
Takeover abandoned
Wideking position weakend
A work group comes up in 4 weeks with a plan fo the new structure (seems a bit quick, if there has not been some work done beforehand ;) )

Maybe we really will see a VAP group (VW + subbrands, Audi + subbrands + Porsche)

Would make sence to me and everyone would profit:

Porsche could stay on a "long" leache, in order not to harm the precious image.
Porsche & Audi could profit from each others technologies, making both stronger
Porsche could profit from VW buying power

Yes there will be product overlap, but this one exists already now within VW group - as long as you can produce more efficiently, sell more together and have a clrea positioning, everyone will be happy. At the end the money will come into one pocket after all :hihi:

The future no. 1 automaker worldwide in the making :bow:

[itisme]

What role will the state of lower sachsony play in the future model?


lower sachsony is very appriciated in the new holding by porsche I read today, just like the way it is involved in VW

the benefit is safety for VAP and the employers

[Leadfoot]

I think you will see a stronger bond forming between Audi and Porsche in future platform sharing, instead of the previous VW/Porsche that produced the Cayenne and Touareg.

I see itisme suggesting Audi using Porsche PDK, this is highly unlikely as the layout of that gearbox wouldn't suit a transverse engined car but I do expect to see help flowing both ways in future developments. Maybe in time we will see Porsche and Audi sharing common platforms instead of Audi adopting VW platforms as is the case with the TT and A3.

I don't see Porsche stopping with the Panamera, it's only a start to making Porsche a bigger player with a range of models, possibly including a smaller sportscar and small hatchback as well as a mid sized saloon/coupe.

[Audiphile]

I think you will see a stronger bond forming between Audi and Porsche in future platform sharing, instead of the previous VW/Porsche that produced the Cayenne and Touareg.

I see itisme suggesting Audi using Porsche PDK, this is highly unlikely as the layout of that gearbox wouldn't suit a transverse engined car but I do expect to see help flowing both ways in future developments. Maybe in time we will see Porsche and Audi sharing common platforms instead of Audi adopting VW platforms as is the case with the TT and A3.

I don't see Porsche stopping with the Panamera, it's only a start to making Porsche a bigger player with a range of models, possibly including a smaller sportscar and small hatchback as well as a mid sized saloon/coupe.


As long as Audi can maintain its independence, allowed to flourish, keep its culture, and continue on the path it is now, then I am happy. Like I said this situation works in Audi's favor as Porsche should be weakened in the merger and sit equally next to Audi. As mentioned I see a power triangle emerging in this new entity. VW-Audi-Porsche consolidating power with each ruling over subbrands. Piech has won which is good for Audi.

[itisme]

According to german press agency (dpa) Audi CEO Robert Stadler is a potential leader of VW/Porsche because he seems to be a neutral solution.

[roadrunner]

According to german press agency (dpa) Audi CEO Robert Stadler is a potential leader of VW/Porsche because he seems to be a neutral solution.

they always go for the best - and most of the time they are at Audi:

Piech
Winterkorn
Stadler

I hope that audi does not run out of HiPo's (high potentials)

[Mr Balsen]

they always go for the best - and most of the time they are at Audi:

Piech
Winterkorn
Stadler

I hope that audi does not run out of HiPo's (high potentials)

Impossible, I am not there yet !!!!

Frederic

[roadrunner]

Impossible, I am not there yet !!!!

Frederic

Funny Frederic, i thought it might be you behind me in the line :cheers:

[tvrfan]

will it be possible for porsche when they have a stable financial situation in future to buy VW back or take VW in future over? with the backround that they are in that time part of VW

[Phage]

We are Volkswagen, you will now be assimilated, resistance is futile. :hihi:

[itisme]

will it be possible for porsche when they have a stable financial situation in future to buy VW back or take VW in future over? with the backround that they are in that time part of VW



no, there won`t be enough freefloat of the stocks

[deveraux]

news from superrumorville:

porsche and vag will merge under the name Auto Union ;) sure...
http://www.leblogauto.com/2009/05/la-fusion-volkswagen-porsche-sous-le-signe-dautounion.html
and here is more crazy stuff, post#766:
http://www.carspyshots.net/showthread.php?t=15028&page=77

[Audiphile]

Auto Union. That is quite interesting considering that Audi AG is really the only one that can carry that name because of historical reasons, although Ferdinand Porsche worked closely with Auto Union on their Silver Arrows. But Auto Union is truely the marquee of the Four Rings. But what makes this interesting if they adopt this name (and I hope they do), then Audi will sit atop the Auto Union Empire. How things have changed so quickly for Porsche.

[tailpipe]

Audiphile, you're quite right that if VW-Porsche were to resurrect the Auto Union name, Audi would indeed sit on top of the brand hierarchy. In fact, it would sit above Porsche. I am not sure that Wolfgang Porsche would be very happy about that. Moreover, it would undermine the premium that Porsche cars have commanded over Audi cars for the last 50 years and that would destroy shareholder value for VW shareholders too, now that it owns Porsche. As much as we all love Audis on this website, Porsche is rightfully the halo brand of the VW-Porsche Group. There's something else too. Auto Union's last zenith was under the Nazis. Bringing this name back from the dead is somewhat like recalling an era that is perhaps best forgotten. For these reasons, I believe that the name VW-Porsche will be adopted.

[Audiphile]

will it be possible for porsche when they have a stable financial situation in future to buy VW back or take VW in future over? with the backround that they are in that time part of VW

No, once Porsche is assimilated into the "Collective (i.e., VW)", VW will own the shares, especially if they swap shares for Porsche debt, it would be highly improbable that Porsche could do anything. I am sure Emperor Piech will have Porsche locked up and the key thrown away.

[Audiphile]

Audiphile, you're quite right that if VW-Porsche were to resurrect the Auto Union name, Audi would indeed sit on top of the brand hierarchy. In fact, it would sit above Porsche. I am not sure that Wolfgang Porsche would be very happy about that. Moreover, it would undermine the premium that Porsche cars have commanded over Audi cars for the last 50 years and that would destroy shareholder value for VW shareholders too, now that it owns Porsche. As much as we all love Audis on this website, Porsche is rightfully the halo brand of the VW-Porsche Group. There's something else too. Auto Union's last zenith was under the Nazis. Bringing this name back from the dead is somewhat like recalling an era that is perhaps best forgotten. For these reasons, I believe that the name VW-Porsche will be adopted.

You may be correct on that observation, but VW-Porsche would not really work considering the structure mentioned by Winterkorn and Piech is a group containing 10 brands in which only three are truely quasi-independent of each other that of course being Volkswagen, Audi, and now Porsche. The VW-Porsche name is too limiting, and it gives the impression that are only two brands. Also, Porsche doesn't really own Audi if look at the Group's structure. It is more of an indirect ownership through owning VW shares. That is why the name VW-Porsche doesn't work. It makes the other brands disappear, and Audi is excerting quite a bit of financial, political, and business influence right now in the Group. Although, not a big deal. but there was a recent squabble between Audi and Porsche regarding the use of TTRS. Porsche said Audi could not do so. Audi engineers PUT UP a royal hissy fit, and Porsche was forced to back down. It's not what you think it is in terms of Porsche influence. With Porsche's debt, VW inepitude in terms of productivity, and Audi's serious financial dominance in the Group with Audi carpet baggers sitting atop of VAG from design to chairman of the board, things are working Audi's way. Porsche will not be able to stop any Audi initiative in the future! Plus, the other brands in the Group are nothing more than fillers and ways of expanding market coverage. VW really doesn't need Bentley, Lambo, Skoda, yet alone SEAT or Bugatti. I think they need a hierachy above the three independents within the Group otherwise there could be problems. Porsche is niche sportcar maker, while Audi is more of a general premium luxury performance brand set on world domination, and as we know, Audi can build them (R8) just AS great as anybody. We will have to wait and see. I like the concept of an expanded Auto Union. It has great meaing in Germany. As for the Nazi past, Mercedes-Benz was the official Nazi mobile and Hilter's personal transport. I do not see Mercedes-Benz sweating it much or showing its collective guilt for WWII.

[Leadfoot]

Porsche's planned merger with Volkswagen (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090507.007/porsche-vw-explore-merger-under-one-brand--plans-of-vw-takeover-halted) has hit an unexpected roadblock which has resulted in a temporary halt to negotiations.
According to a VW spokesperson, "We recognized ... that Porsche is lacking several fundamental conditions for the discussions," including a plan which integrates the two companies. Essentially, Volkswagen's shareholders are contending that there's not enough synergy between the two companies to make a merger successful the way things currently stand.
Although Porsche declined to comment, one of the key sticking points revolves around who would lead the new company. There has been mounting pressure to name Volkswagen's CEO, Martin Winterkorn, the leader of the merged company, a move which likely doesn't sit well with Porsche.
Recently a source indicated that Porsche's heavy financing (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090325.030/porsche-secures-ten-billion-euros-to-buy-vw-shares) of the Volkswagen deal has put them in a tough situation which has resulted in them offering VW their car business, but so far that is unconfirmed.
Porsche is scheduled to meet today to discuss the recent breakdown in negotiations, so expect more news in the coming days.

[Audiphile]

Porsche's planned merger with Volkswagen (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090507.007/porsche-vw-explore-merger-under-one-brand--plans-of-vw-takeover-halted) has hit an unexpected roadblock which has resulted in a temporary halt to negotiations.
According to a VW spokesperson, "We recognized ... that Porsche is lacking several fundamental conditions for the discussions," including a plan which integrates the two companies. Essentially, Volkswagen's shareholders are contending that there's not enough synergy between the two companies to make a merger successful the way things currently stand.
Although Porsche declined to comment, one of the key sticking points revolves around who would lead the new company. There has been mounting pressure to name Volkswagen's CEO, Martin Winterkorn, the leader of the merged company, a move which likely doesn't sit well with Porsche.
Recently a source indicated that Porsche's heavy financing (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090325.030/porsche-secures-ten-billion-euros-to-buy-vw-shares) of the Volkswagen deal has put them in a tough situation which has resulted in them offering VW their car business, but so far that is unconfirmed.
Porsche is scheduled to meet today to discuss the recent breakdown in negotiations, so expect more news in the coming days.

I love the turn of events, especially in terms of how it applies to Audi's quiet political might behind the scenes. Strangely, and several here including me begged the question a while back, how is was it possible that a company so small like Porsche could possibly manage a financial takeover of a giant like VAG? Obviously, Porsche employed a nice smoke & mirror game to actually cover up their way of achieving their 51%, and too many automotive know it alls were blinded by the name Porsche to really see that there is nothing "magical" about the company from a business sense. Again, Audi proves to be the top dawg in managing its business properly when compared to the mismanagment at BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and now Porsche. Poor Wiedeking - ego too big to fit through the door has now been deflated. In life, always be humble because it will come back to bite you in the ass. What a shame he will have to go. Now they'll have a true CEO in Audi's Winterkorn.

Again, the winner in this will be Audi. Who would have guessed this several months back. It is also telling that the name Auto Union was brought up. Now, why would that be? Considering that the entire upper management including Chairman of the Board are technically Audicrats, one can see where Audi takes over VAG as Auto Union. Take that Mercedes-Benz! Should've kept Auto Union in 1965 when you had the chance. I love Porsche cars, but to all Porsche fans, Porsche is in deep shit!

[andreadebi]

I love the turn of events, especially in terms of how it applies to Audi's quiet political might behind the scenes. Strangely, and several here including me begged the question a while back, how is was it possible that a company so small like Porsche could possibly manage a financial takeover of a giant like VAG? Obviously, Porsche employed a nice smoke & mirror game to actually cover up their way of achieving their 51%, and too many automotive know it alls were blinded by the name Porsche to really see that there is nothing "magical" about the company from a business sense. Again, Audi proves to be the top dawg in managing its business properly when compared to the mismanagment at BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and now Porsche. Poor Wiedeking - ego too big to fit through the door has now been deflated. In life, always be humble because it will come back to bite you in the ass. What a shame he will have to go. Now they'll have a true CEO in Audi's Winterkorn.

Again, the winner in this will be Audi. Who would have guessed this several months back. It is also telling that the name Auto Union was brought up. Now, why would that be? Considering that the entire upper management including Chairman of the Board are technically Audicrats, one can see where Audi takes over VAG as Auto Union. Take that Mercedes-Benz! Should've kept Auto Union in 1965 when you had the chance. I love Porsche cars, but to all Porsche fans, Porsche is in deep shit!

I consider Winterkorn a "Yes man" of Piech....I prefer Wiedeking

[Brakedust]

I think it is a bit unfair to call Winterkorn a 'Yes" man. The guy is a genius and Audi is largely what it is today thanks to his vision and management ability.

[Audiphile]

I think it is a bit unfair to call Winterkorn a 'Yes" man. The guy is a genius and Audi is largely what it is today thanks to his vision and management ability.

Agreed! Winterkorn has been brilliant in guiding Audi and we all know where his loyalities are - Inglostadt.

[chewym]

VW had to save Porsche with basically an emergency 700 million loan a little while back.

I spent a few posts on this forum questioning how in the world Porsche was buying up all that VW stock. Never did anyone give a good answer, seemed a little weird.

[andreadebi]

VW had to save Porsche with basically an emergency 700 million loan a little while back.

I spent a few posts on this forum questioning how in the world Porsche was buying up all that VW stock. Never did anyone give a good answer, seemed a little weird.

this article could be useful

http://seekingalpha.com/article/139571-porsche-at-risk-of-bankruptcy-unlikely-to-find-much-sympathy

[Klint]

From what i've heard (from a good source) it seems Porsche can't afford to close out the call options they have on VW shares. if they do exercise the right and sell the shares on they are inline to make up to 17.5bln Euro profit.