What's really going on at Porsche?

[tailpipe]

I was very, very surprised yesterday when Wendelin Wiedeking didn't show up for the launch of the new Panamera in Shanghai. This is the most important car Porsche has launched since the Boxter, so you would have expected him to be present. Wiedeking was apparently sick.

What equally surprised me is that the Head of Volkswagen, Martin Winterkorn, was here. This tells me what financial pundits have suspected all along and that is the merger between Porsche is actually a reverse takeover. Although it is Porsche who has acquired Volkswagen shares, it is actually Volkswagen who is now driving the ship in terms of strategy and future products.

The person really pulling the strings is none other than Ferdinand Piech, Chairman of VW and family shareholder in Porsche. This is all seems to be part of his masterplan to drag Porsche kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

Let's face it. Piech is absolutely right. Until the Boxter came along Porsche was a one trick pony. And, of course, the last time there was a meltdown of the financial markets, in 1991-1992, sales of the 911 fell of a cliff and the Company suffered. Porsche realised that it could only maintain its credibility for technological development if it achieved a global critical mass. It was this that prompted the change of management that ushered in the Wiedeking era. Despite the impressive profitability of Porsche - it is the MOST profitable car company in the world - Porsche knew that long term survival meant adding new models. Piech had realised this more than a decade ago. He got Audi to build amazing concept cars that previewed the R8 to show Porsche what he thought they should be building. Moreover, it was Piech who pushed for Porsche to expand its product portfolio at shareholder meetings. When the decision was taken to develop the Cayenne, Porsche simply didn't have sufficient resources to develop it alone. Cue VW. After Volkswagen was chosen as the preferred partner, a more comprehensive partnership agreement was only a matter of time.

The Panamera will be a resounding success. No question. But VW will be seen as a pivotal part of that success. VW will get much of the credit, just as perhaps it still gets credit for the 911, which as we all know started life as a humble Beetle. Once VW has had a little time to bathe in that success, exit Wiedeking. But maybe he is already on his way out.

Whatever is going on behind the scenes, we should expect to see more new Porsche models in its showrooms. Porsche will benefit even more from unfettered access to the VW Group's parts bin. We just have to hope that Porsche's brand values aren't diluted too much by new models built on the same platforms as Volkswagens and Audis.

Anyway, the story continues to unfurl and I'm looking forward to the next chapter...

[Erik]

Thanks for the notes on what happened in Shanghai. Very interesting indeed.

[roadrunner]

Dear tailpipe,

as much as i value your opinion - most of the time i had to disagree.

BUT, this time i really hope that you are right. Because i believe that VW has much more experience and the necessary sure instinct of managing "competing" brands within the group. Not to mention technology sharing without harming the brand image...

And that was & is my biggest concern: that Porsche might limit the current success and vast potential that lies within Audi.

After all - i want to see an R8 successor in the future (vs. 911), as well as an Mk.III TT RS (Cayman S) and S8 (Panamera). And a Mk. II Q7...

As much as i respect the Porsche brand and it's driving machines, i would always choose the counterpart in the Audi lineup.

[tailpipe]

My observations have been echoed by German newspapers this morning, to the point where both Porsche and VW have issued statements that Wiedeking is NOT leaving. These stories merely confirm my belief that it is: "Thank you and goodnight, Wendelin!"

Ferry Porsche and Winterkorn were sitting together. Winerkorn and Piech are close friends. And of course, Winterkorn is the architect of Audi's ascendancy into the stratosphere. In short, all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are falling into place nicely. If Winterkorn does take the helm of the entire VW group, then Audi's position within it and thus its future success are assured. That said, however, we should expect a considerable amount of lateral moves from within the Group from Ingolstadt to Weissach.

For sure we will see 2nd Generation R8 and new 911, but they may well be built on the same platform. Similarly, the next TT and Cayman may also share chassis and parts. It's how car companies make money these days.

(Roadrunner, delighted that you disagree with most of what i say; it would be such a boring forum if we all thought the same thing!)

[Leadfoot]

For once I am in total agreement with Tailpipe, I too have thought for some time now that it wasn't Porsche acquiring VAG but the other way round, it was solely done this way because the profits from the shares dealing would be greater this way than the other way round, thus giving a large development fund for future models right across all of the brands and not just Porsche.

[The Pretender]

The Panamera will be the base for the next Gen Phaeton IMHO.

Jarod.

[Mr Balsen]

Piech has been the Kaiser in both Porsche and Volkswagen for many decades.

Piech ordered Porsche to purchase Volkswagen for the sole reason that Volkswagen MUST stay german. Punkt.

Frederic

[KresoF1]

Piech has been the Kaiser in both Porsche and Volkswagen for many decades.

Piech ordered Porsche to purchase Volkswagen for the sole reason that Volkswagen MUST stay german. Punkt.

Frederic

True. All other comments about VAG controling Porsche are pure specualtion or wishfull thinking made by Audi die hard fans...

[itisme]

Piech has been the Kaiser in both Porsche and Volkswagen for many decades.

Piech ordered Porsche to purchase Volkswagen for the sole reason that Volkswagen MUST stay german. Punkt.

Frederic


agree 100%

[M3 owner]

True. All other comments about VAG controling Porsche are pure specualtion or wishfull thinking made by Audi die hard fans...

Totally agree.

[Leadfoot]

True. All other comments about VAG controling Porsche are pure specualtion or wishfull thinking made by Audi die hard fans...

I don't know about anyone else but my comments were purely what I believe would be the most logical and profitable through the sale of shares.

[RXBG]

not sure i agree with any of that. why does lower saxony resist so much? why the cancellation of the R4? how does a company that owns more of another company get told what to do by the company it owns?

when the R8 successor turns into a GT car like the maserati gran turismo you'll know what i mean.

[tailpipe]

There was never any doubt that Volkswagen itself would always remain in German ownership, especially with 'Volkswagen Law" designed to ensure this exact state of affairs and with the State of Lower Saxony owning a controlling interest with its block of shares.

The same is not true of Porsche. It is a private, family-held company. With its previously limited product range and an uncertain economic climate, its future was much less assured, despite its profitability. So, yes, the merger with VW was necessary for Porsche to remain in German hands.

Indeed, RXBG, the shenanigans with Corporate Governance (which saw Bernd Pischetsrieder unceremoniously booted out); the acquired company then effectively controlling the acquiring company; the increasingly complex share structure of the combined group; speculation over VW shares effectively allowing Porsche to manipulate the markets and raise cash; all raise significant questions about who is controlling who. In short, there is much more to this than meets the eye and there must surely be a risk of secret dealings being exposed that could cause a meltdown.

Let's hope not. A lot of us feared that if Porsche were truly calling the shots, the future of Audi might not be so assured. If, as I suspect, Ferdinand Piech is the mastermind behind everything, he is the last person to let the Company he himself shaped fade into obscurity. What this story most underlines is for a very clear positioning and delineation between the VW Group brands. With the recent financial situation the number of global car companies is consolidating. I think it would be very dangerous for VW to copy GM's strategy. GM's failure is largely due to the overlap between its brands destroying any sense of uniqueness for its model line-up.

[Leadfoot]

The problem GM did was produce idential cars for all brands with nothing changing other then a re-naming of the model and the badge change. VAG have similar platform sharing but almost everything you see and feel is different between brands and for the most part they all drive slightly different too.

[itisme]

May be one can translate this... I´m to bussy doing it

latest news (porsche stock lost 4% after this article:


Porsche-Eigentümer suchen Großinvestor

Porsche hat offenbar größere Finanzierungsprobleme als bislang bekannt. Nach Informationen des manager magazin können die Eigentümerfamilien die Übernahme des VW-Konzerns wohl nicht mehr aus eigener Kraft stemmen. Geplant ist nun eine Kapitalerhöhung - und die Suche nach einem Großinvestor.

ANZEIGE

Hamburg - Der Autobauer Porsche braucht offenbar frisches Kapital. Nach Informationen des manager magazin können die Eigentümerfamilien Piëch und Porsche die Übernahme des Wolfsburger VW-Konzerns wohl nicht mehr aus eigener Kraft schaffen. Deshalb planen sie eine Kapitalerhöhung und suchen nach einem Großinvestor.


DPA
Porsche-Werk in Leipzig: Der Aktienkurs gab nach der Meldung nach

Damit wären die Finanzierungsprobleme des Stuttgarter Sportwagenherstellers größer als bisher bekannt. Das manager magazin beruft sich auf Quellen aus dem Porsche-Aufsichtsrat. Das Unternehmen selbst war für eine Stellungnahme zunächst nicht zu erreichen. Die Börse reagierte mit einem Kursrutsch, nach Bekanntgabe der Nachricht fiel die Porsche-Aktie mehr als ein Prozent ins Minus.


Laut manager magazin hat es bereits Gespräche mit potentiellen Investoren aus dem arabischen Raum gegeben.

Die Suche nach frischem Kapital sei notwendig geworden, weil die Porsche-Kreditgeber die Zinsen stark angehoben hätten. Der Versuch von Porsche, deshalb einen Gewinnabführungsvertrag bei Volkswagen durchzusetzen, sei unter anderem am Widerstand von Niedersachsens Ministerpräsident Christian Wulff gescheitert.

MEHR ZUM THEMA

Im neuen SPIEGEL 17/2009:

Risiko Vorsorge
Mediziner zweifeln am Nutzen von Gesundheits-Checks

Foto Frank Wartenberg für den SPIEGEL; Illustration Jean-Pierre Kunkel für den SPIEGEL
Inhalt
Vorabmeldungen
English Texts
Abonnement
Clanchef Ferdinand Piëch sagte demnach auf der letzten Aufsichtsratssitzung der Porsche Automobil Holding SE am 15. April, der Vertrag lasse sich gegenwärtig in Wolfsburg nicht verkaufen.

Mit einem Gewinnabführungsvertrag hätte Porsche den Zugriff auf den VW-Cash-Flow gehabt. Niedersachen hält eine Sperrminorität von 20 Prozent an Volkswagen - und nutzt sie offenbar, um die Pläne der Porsche-Eigentümerfamilien zu durchkreuzen.

Nun wird innerhalb der Porsche-Führung diskutiert, Porsche und VW zu einer neuen Holding zu verschmelzen. Die Folge wäre wohl, dass Porsche nicht mehr die Mehrheit an dem gemeinsamen Unternehmen hätte. Porsche und VW arbeiteten nun mit Hochdruck an der neuen Unternehmensstruktur, berichtet das manager magazin.

Die Position von Porsche-Finanzvorstand Holger Härter, Architekt der Übernahme, gilt unterdessen als stark geschwächt. Er könnte vor der Ablösung stehen, schreibt das Wirtschaftsblatt und zitiert einen Wegbegleiter Härters: "Die Familien sind von ihm enttäuscht."

FORUM


Hat sich Porsche übernommen?

Diskutieren Sie mit anderen SPIEGEL-ONLINE-Lesern!

5 Beiträge
Neuester: Heute 15:23 Uhr
von MarkH

Ein Mitglied des Porsche-Aufsichtsrats sagte dem SPIEGEL: "Die Lage ist ernst. Richtig ernst." Schuld sind die Kredite, die Porsche für die VW-Übernehme aufnehmen musste. Aktuell beläuft sich die Verschuldung auf neun Milliarden Euro.

Allein in den ersten sechs Monaten des laufenden Geschäftsjahres stieg die Verschuldung um sechs Milliarden Euro, weil Porsche seinen VW-Anteil auf 50,8 Prozent erhöhte. Nach SPIEGEL-Informationen dürften allein die Kreditzinsen bei rund 600 Millionen Euro im Jahr liegen.

MEHR ÜBER...
Porsche VW Piëch Übernahme Kapitalbedarf Kapitalerhöhung Großinvestor
zu SPIEGEL WISSEN
Am Mittwochmorgen hatte das "Handelsblatt" gemeldet, dass Porsche und die VW-Tochter Audi enger zusammenarbeiten könnten. Der Sportwagenbauer profitiert demnach von Zugeständnissen des VW-Betriebsrats. Die Stuttgarter sollen künftig leichter Elektronikkomponenten und Motoren von Volkswagens Audi beziehen können, berichtet die Zeitung unter Berufung auf Aufsichtsratskreise.

[tailpipe]

The reason Porsche stock went down was because it reported (presumably in this article) the cost of servicing the loans on VW's current debt. Around $1 billion a quarter I believe. Why no one figured this earlier, God only knows.

[rokke]

im summarising the posted article for you, i´ve read it also earlier this day

the main thing is, that porsche has serious problems to repay their credits they had to take when they bought the vw-shares.....they have a yearly interest of 600.000 mio. € just for credits..... so what they did is to propose a profit-lead-away-contract from VW to get the credits payed.... lower saxony, which holds 20% of the shares disagreed and now piech said they have to look for a new investor for fresh money...they are looking eastwards ....after abu dhabi bought over 9% of daimler porsche seems to hope for a similar event... at the time they have 9 billion € depts to pay off......

they also mentioned that the CFO of porsche has to leave...the owning families porsche and piech are too disappointed.....



just another few numbers for the threadstarter:

its right that porsche is the most profitable carbuilder.

they make a profit per CAR of 21.000 € (approximated numbers)

the second profitable is BMW with a profit of 2,500 € per car...... i think this speaks for itself!!!!!!

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

i would assume in the end Porsche is a trademark of VW.

Qisha

[Leadfoot]

Thanks Qisha, you have roughly confirmed what Tailpipe and myself have always thought on this subject. :cheers:

[tailpipe]

Rokke,

Thank you for that translation. I think we may see a situation where VW purchases Porsche shares to dig Porsche out of the hole it is now in. This will effectively amount to a cross-ownership agreement that will fully unite the two companies. Either way, Ferdinand Piech is already in control of both companies, just as he has been for some years, so the latest financial engineering scenarios are merely formalities designed to reflect the true state of affairs. I imagine that the merged company will probably be called Volkswagen-Porsche Group or possible VAP - Volkswagen Audi Porsche.

As I already said, what makes all of these developments very exciting is that at last Porsche will benefit from VW's resources and economies of scale to develop a range of totally uncompromised cars. In addition to a 928 replacement based on the Panamera platform, I believe that people in Zuffenhausen may be starting to think about where they go with the 911.

I'd like to see a scenario where Porsche develops a brand new 2+2 platform for the 911 but with a mid rather than rear-mounted engine. (This could also form the basis of the next R8 and Lamborghini Gallardo.) I had heard that a number of R8 development models were in fact 2+2 cars with four seats, but Piech vetoed this configuration, because of the threat to Porsche. Anyone know anything about this?

[Marlo]

Out of all this potential platform sharing I still want to see an Audi R6 and a New Porsche 356!!! :cool2:

[andreadebi]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/845642c6-2f67-11de-a8f6-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aUp8sH95gJq8&refer=home#

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/business/global/24porsche.html?_r=1&ref=global

[rokke]

SPIEGEL wrote this morning that wiedeking and CFO haerter have to leave porsche as soon as they have a solution for their financial problems.

for me this is really hard. wiedeking was CEO since 1993 and he was the guy that made porsche what it is today. the most profitable carmaker in the world.
which other guy would have done better in this siutation? in a siutation nobody knows when and how to end the crisis without throwing the monetary system over board. porsche was unlucky that they had a big undertaking going on just in time when the crisis hit.
everybody knows they made in the last years more profit out of the stock market as from building cars. mr. haerter was surely no fool - wiedeking estimated him very much for his knowledge in financial things.

wiedeking was the manager in germany that had the highest income by far. when the CEO of deutsche bank, josef ackermann earned some 15 million euros a year everybody moaned. he was the best earning manager for several years. than came wiedeking an earned officially 64 million euros 2007. that was crazy but the resonance from the people was not that big. when wiedeking was asked for his true income per year he said: "i´d never tell my real income - the people couldnt bear with it" . use of estimates say he earned 100 million euros a year. normally not imaginable in germany as long as you are no employer. but the people granted it him (still not everybody)

so i just think wiedeking and haerter made a great job for years and they rendered some outstanding services to porsche. in a time when everybody is struggling, some of the biggest carbuilders in the world are not capable of surviving without incredible much money from the state, even then surviving is questionable mr piech and his folks just shouldnt act like they or others could have done it better. so i think you dont have to throw the people out just because you would have done so in normal circumstances and conditions but they just arent normal nowadays.

in my opinion there isnt even a guy at the time who could fill the big gap wiedeking will surely leave.

[tailpipe]

Rokke,

I can understand your respect and admiration for Wiedeking. He did an amazing job and it seems very strange that such an impressive man should have his career cut short so suddenly and without due celebration of his great achievements.

But it is hard to feel sorry for him. Wiedeking has been one of the highest paid auto industry bosses for at least a decade and must surely have made Euro 600 million during his time at Porsche. I also imagine that he has received a very handsome pay-off.

Now Porsche is the top brand of the Volkswagen empire, we will see some amazing new models. With Dr Ferdinand Piech calling the shots, the Bugatti Veyron, Lamborghini Murcielago, Audi R8 and Bentley range give us a small preview of what Porsche can now achieve. What interests me most is how Piech sees the future of the 911. Will he continue to refine the current model or start with a clean sheet of paper?

Don't know about you, but I see the Porsche range growing as follows:

- At the bottom end, we will have the successor to the 356 based on the new VW BlueSport chassis, available as both a coupe and a convertible (2 models)
- In the middle category, future Boxter / Cayman models will share the same platform as the TT (2 models)
- In the SUV category, again the Cayenne will share platforms with the Touareg and Q7 (1 model)
- In the sports saloon category, the Panamera will be based on the A8 platform and spawn a 928 2+2 sports car (2 models)
- At the top end, the 911, will get a brand new chassis and move much further up-market to become a totally uncompromised sports supercar. Think Carrera GT with a smaller price tag and better packaging available as both coupe and convertible models (2 models)

That makes a total of 7 separate models. Wow! You wouldn't want such an exclusive brand to have too many models, so this may be enough. If it is right, then it leaves plenty of room for Audi to continue to produce great models without either Volkswagen or Porsche overlapping too much.

In short, everyone wins.

[itisme]

Rokke,
I also imagine that he has received a very handsome pay-off.


please stop here and weit a moment. Wiedeking will stay in his office as CEO...

here, from Porsche statement to Spiegel:


Porsche weist Bericht über Wiedeking-Ablösung zurück

26.04.2009 14:31
STUTTGART/HAMBURG (dpa-AFX) - Der Sportwagenbauer Porsche hat
einen "Spiegel"-Bericht über eine angeblich bald bevorstehende Ablösung von
Konzernlenker Wendelin Wiedeking und Finanzchef Holger Härter zurückgewiesen.
Das Nachrichtenmagazin schreibt in seiner neuen Ausgabe, "in großen Teilen" der
Porsche-Eigentümerfamilien Porsche und Piëch sei das Urteil über die beiden
Manager gefällt und sie müssten in einigen Monaten gehen. "Diese rufschädigenden
Spekulationen weisen wir entschieden zurück", sagte ein Porsche- Sprecher am
Samstag.

Der "Spiegel" schreibt weiter, Wiedeking und Härter würden schwerwiegende
Fehler bei der Übernahme von Volkswagen durch Porsche vorgeworfen. Vor
allem gehe es dabei darum, dass sich Porsche mit Milliardenkrediten für den
Erwerb von VW-Anteilen übernommen habe. Mitglieder des Porsche-Piëch-Clans seien
unter anderem verärgert gewesen, dass sie für eine Kredit-Verlängerung auch
Anteile an dem von ihnen gehaltenen größten europäischen Autohandelsunternehmen
mit Sitz in Salzburg hätten verpfänden müssen.

'PORSCHE WEITERHIN SOLIDE FINANZIERT'

"Den Vorwurf der schwerwiegenden Fehler weisen wir zurück", betonte der
Porsche-Sprecher auf dpa-Anfrage. "Wir weisen auch darauf hin, dass Porsche
weiterhin grundsolide finanziert ist." Laut Medienberichten muss Porsche in
wenigen Monaten eine neue Finanzierung für auslaufende Kredite von 3,3
Milliarden Euro sicherstellen. In der Finanzkrise sei dies auch für den lange
erfolgsverwöhnten Sportwagenhersteller schwieriger geworden.

Zu der auch vom "Spiegel" erwähnten Überlegung, Porsche könnte die
Sportwagenproduktion an VW abtreten, um die aktuelle Verschuldung von rund zehn
Milliarden Euro zu drücken, sagte der Firmensprecher: "Wir halten das für sehr
unrealistisch." Zur Zeit geisterten viele theoretische Möglichkeiten durchs
Land. In den vergangenen Tagen war diese Variante in mehreren Medienberichten
als mögliche Lösung genannt worden.

WEITERER KAUF VON VW AKTIEN BRACHTE PROBLEME

Nach "Spiegel"-Darstellung brachte vor allem die Entscheidung zum
Jahreswechsel, noch acht Prozent der VW-Aktien dazuzukaufen, Porsche in
Probleme. Eine Bank habe Porsche das Aktienpaket angeboten. Der Sportwagenbauer
hielt zu dem Zeitpunkt gut 42 Prozent der VW-Anteile und stockte mit dem Kauf
auf über 50 Prozent auf. Allerdings habe sich Porsche dafür mit weiteren sechs
Milliarden Euro verschulden müssen. Das ging zwar im Rahmen einer nur teilweise
genutzten Kreditlinie - doch sie lief im März aus und musste verlängert werden.
Die Gespräche mit den Banken über eine neue Finanzierung hätten sich dann
deutlich schwieriger gestaltet als von Härter in Aussicht gestellt, schreibt der
"Spiegel".

Zu einem Bericht des Nachrichtenmagazins "Focus", der Emir von Katar habe
Interesse an einem Einstieg bei Porsche, wollte sich das Unternehmen nicht
äußern./so/bs/DP/g

[tailpipe]

Wiedeking is out. It is only a matter of time before it becomes official.

[Leadfoot]

Wiedeking is out. It is only a matter of time before it becomes official.

I happen to agree with you here, it's a crying shame that the saviour of Porsche should be pushed in such a manner. Such is VW politics it seems. :nana:

[itisme]

I happen to agree with you here, it's a crying shame that the saviour of Porsche should be pushed in such a manner. Such is VW politics it seems. :nana:

it`s Piech who will be very happy with it. He has the opinion, that Wiedeking is great for Porsche, but Porsche-VW is too huge for him.

They would keep Wiedeking at porsche, but Härter claimed, that if one of them has to leave, the other one will follow

[tailpipe]

From today's Financial Times:

Clan showdown looms over rival strategies to rescue Porsche
By Daniel Schäfer in Frankfurt
Published: May 5 2009 03:00

The feuding families that control Porsche are set for a showdown tomorrow when they will argue over rival rescue strategies for the indebted German sports carmaker. Wolfgang Porsche, chairman of the eponymous carmaker, and Ferdinand Piëch, chairman at Volkswagen, laid bare a family schism last week when they clashed over how to bail out Porsche.

Mr Porsche, whose family branch owns a larger portion of Porsche than the Piëch clan, is backing a plan by Wendelin Wiedeking, the carmaker's chief executive.

Mr Wiedeking wants to merge VW and Porsche into a new holding company and to inject capital from the families - perhaps through their Austrian car distribution business - and outside investors.

People close to the situation said several sovereign wealth investors from the Middle East, one believed to be from Qatar, had expressed interest in investing in a combined VW/Porsche group.

But that plan comes after the Financial Times revealed two weeks ago that Mr Piëch has an alternative proposal for VW to take over Porsche AG, the automotive business that is owned by the indebted holding company Porsche SE.

That move, which would turn upside down Porsche's takeover of VW that started in 2005, was rebuffed by Mr Porsche when he said in a German newspaper interview that "we are currently on the right path. Porsche AG will not be sold to Volkswagen".

People close to Mr Piëch said Mr Porsche had soured the atmosphere ahead of this week's family meeting in Salzburg: "This makes it much harder to agree to a solution."

Mr Piëch aims to replace Mr Wiedeking and Holger Härter, chief financial officer - who are both close to Mr Porsche - with VW executives, should the takeover of Porsche be successful.

[tvrfan]

will this be good for audi???

[Leadfoot]

Who would bet against Ferdinand Piëch not getting his way.

Tailpipe, it looks like our opinion on this was right all along, in that it wasn't Porsche taking control of VW but VW through Ferdinand Piëch taking control of Porsche and if that is indeed the case then I can't see how it could be bad for Audi. After all getting Porsche is only another feather in VW's cap.

P.S.

If it went the other way then I would be more concerned about the Middle East getting a foot hold in the main German motorcar manufacturer.

[tailpipe]

Hi Leadfoot,

Yes, of course you're right. Such a scenario was always Piech's game plan and can only be good for Audi. Piech will make sure that each brand is positioned correctly within the Group.

However, I had thought the deal was already done, which would explain Wiedeking's no show at Shanghai. Wolfgang Porsche and Piech really do seem to be at each other's throats, so the deal may not yet be complete and could even be sabotaged.

Whatever happens, I tend to think that VW holds all of the aces. Firstly, it has enough cash to buy back its shares from Porsche and Porsche needs cash. If Porsche and Volkswagen became separate entities again, then Porsche would be in a very weak position relative to VW. And if Porsche turns the tables on VW and Piech is forced out - a very unlikely scenario - VW could easily raise its prices for supplying parts for various Porsche models or even cancel both existing or future platform sharing agreements. In a worse case scenario, Piech could even float Audi off as a separate company. (Don't laugh: Audi contributes to more than 30% of the Group's profits and has products in every major category.) And if tit gets ugly, VW has the support of the State of Lower Saxony. In short both Ferdinand Piech and VW are in a very strong position.

Besides the powerplay, a situation where the Porsche Holding Company (Porsche and Piech families) owns Volkswagen together with other major shareholders (including the State of Lower Saxony and other major investors e.g. from Qatar) but where Volkswagen owns Porsche AG, the car maker, makes sense for everyone.

The question is: what should happen to Wiedeking and his CFO? No question that Wiedeking has done a good job, but he and Piech hate each other almost as much as Piech and Wolfgang Porsche. I don't think Wiedeking has conducted himself very tactfully as far as Piech is concerned, so there is probably no place for him in the new VW-Porsche Group.

Ex-Audi boss, Winterkorn is the obvious CEO for the combined Porsche-VW Group. As good as Wiedeking is, Winterkorn is the outstanding manager of his generation. With both Piech and Winterkorn calling the shots, no one on this forum should have any worries about Audi's future.

Once VW and Porsche fully unite, my only doubt is whether an R8 successor will appear. If I were Piech, I would not replace it, because it cuts directly across both Porsche and Lamborghini models that command a higher price premium, but maybe a 911, Gallardo replacement and new R8 can all share the same platform without cannibalizing sales in future?

We should know the outcome by the end of tomorrow.

[andreadebi]

http://www.reuters.com/article/innovationNews/idUSTRE5451ME20090506

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aatyaw9bgZvo&refer=home

[andreadebi]

http://www.reuters.com/article/innovationNews/idUSTRE5451ME20090506

[itisme]

http://www.reuters.com/article/innovationNews/idUSTRE5451ME20090506

why post twice?

[andreadebi]

why post twice?

this morning was different the news... same code-link

[tailpipe]

Looks like the merged entity will be called Volkswagen-Porsche AG.

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

i would assume in the end Porsche is a trademark of VW.

Qisha

Dear Friends,

Veni, vidi, vici... :king:

Well, this shortens the path for becoming the largest car manufacturer (and most profitable too).

Now it is time to live associated in symbiosis. :cheers:

Qisha

[Erik]

Are there any news to read?

[Qisha]

Are there any news to read?

Dear Erik,

Wendelin Wiedeking as well as Holger Härter both left Porsche. This has been decided this night during a special supervisory board meeting. Successor will be Michael Macht, his representative Thomas Edig. The decision to increase in capital by 5 billion euro was also made.

Not definite yet is the overtake procedure. Most likely 49.9% in a first step, and a new principal shareholder- the Emirate Katar.

Qisha

[itisme]

Wiedeking got 50billion euros to leave and Härter 12,5 billion.

[Leadfoot]

Wiedeking got 50billion euros to leave and Härter 12,5 billion.

Are sure you didn't mean million instead of billion? :lovl:

[itisme]

Are sure you didn't mean million instead of billion? :lovl:


you got me there...


half of the 50 MILLION is going to social groups

[The Pretender]

Looks like the merged entity will be called Volkswagen-Porsche AG.
More likely "Auto-Union-Porsche AG" IMHO.

[itisme]

More likely "Auto-Union-Porsche AG" IMHO.

That won't ever happen... volkswagen is a really huge name.. it's an institution... it will have volkswagen in it's name

[Erik]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/c6901d32-7761-11de-8c68-00144feabdc0.html

"Wendelin Wiedeking is the Sir Fred Goodwin of Germany. Like Sir Fred, the unassuming-looking Mr Wiedeking once did great things, turning near-bankrupt Porsche into a hugely profitable company. Then his audacious takeover attempt of Volkswagen collapsed under the weight of its debts. Mr Wiedeking is now driving off with a €50m bonus, although Schadenfreude may soon replace outrage: he could be dragged before the courts as has happened to other German executives, such as Mannesmann’s Klaus Esser.

The common view is that Mr Wiedeking’s departure is a defeat for Porsche, now saddled with €10bn of debt. But this ignores the broader interests of the Porsche family that a) still controls the sports car maker, which owns 51 per cent of VW, plus options over another 20 per cent, and b) includes VW’s own chairman, Ferdinand Piëch, who wants to leave his family an extraordinary legacy: a recombined Porsche/VW.

With Mr Wiedeking gone, Mr Piëch has had to opt for a less confrontational strategy. VW’s first step requires recapitalising Porsche SE, the indebted holding company. To do this, the family will “contribute” Porsche Austria, its unlisted car parts distributor, worth some €3bn, into the holding. Ordinary shareholders will meanwhile inject cash via a capital raising. Then the Qataris will take on most of Porsche SE’s options over VW; this is their passport into Germany’s industrial heartland. Finally, VW will buy a small stake in Porsche AG, the carmaker owned by the holding. This will release cash to Porsche SE.

The end result will be a debt-free Porsche SE, owning 51 per cent of VW alongside its minority partners the state of Lower Saxony, with 20 per cent, and the Qataris. The final step is to merge Porsche SE with VW. Even if the Porsche family does not end up with a majority, it will still be VW’s largest investor, a remarkable feat. VW, meanwhile, gets the stable investor base it has long craved. It will be impregnable"

[tailpipe]

This is an incredible story. The entire jigsaw puzzle looks remarkably complete. And the FT is right. VW is now impregnable to hostile takeover. It is clear to me that Dr Ferdinand Piech had a very clear plan and the utter determination to implement it. I am staggered by how he has succeeded. What an extraordinary man he is. By Christmas, we should start to see the future model strategy for the Group emerging. It is extremely interesting and exciting.

Above all, I expect a brand-new 911 platform to emerge. Goodbye rear-engine monstrosity and hello rear mid-engine supercar. (Of course, existing 911 will soldier on, because it is timeless like the Beetle.) But once an uncompromised top-end Porsche is launched and gains a market toe-hold versus Ferrari, (and dare I say the Audi R8), the 911 may feel the need to retire. In the short term, it is going to be very interesting to see what Porsche's model strategy will be and what it means for Volkswagen and Audi. (Anyone interested in a Volkswagen Golf GTI Porsche edition?)

With the Bluesport chassis, who knows maybe a proper retro-Beetle will appear? I certainly think it will be the basis for a new Porsche and Audi model as well as cut-price VW roadster.

I also wonder whether Volkswagen will consider divesting other brands. I mean how many brands does it need. With Porsche, Audi and Volkswagen alone it has most model categories covered? Maybe keep Bentley, Lamoborghini and Bugatti, but does it really need SEAT and Skoda? I guees they both contribute low-end profits.

[The Pretender]

That won't ever happen... volkswagen is a really huge name.. it's an institution... it will have volkswagen in it's name

"Volkswagen potrebbe cambiare nome in Auto Union"

Translate in,

"Volkswagen could change name in Auto Union".

=====

"Gruppo Volkswagen: si avvicina il cambio di nome in Auto Union"

Translate in,

"Volkswagen group: the name change in Auto Union is approached"

[Klint]

Did someone say the 911 is due for retirement? :noshake:

[tailpipe]

Did someone say the 911 is due for retirement? :noshake:

I think people will go on buying 911s for as long as they are made, so VW-Porsche-Auto Union would be crazy to "retire" it. But there is certainly room above the 911 for a new rear mid-engine supercar from Porsche. We should see quite a few new Porsche models in the near future. I understand that Auto Motor und Sport is working on just such a story.

[The Pretender]

I think people will go on buying 911s for as long as they are made, so VW-Porsche-Auto Union would be crazy to "retire" it. But there is certainly room above the 911 for a new rear mid-engine supercar from Porsche. We should see quite a few new Porsche models in the near future. I understand that Auto Motor und Sport is working on just such a story.
Porsche can transform every Auto Union product into a Porsche model if they like to do so.
The next 911 is already under development.

[Erik]

Aug 13th 2pm - Reuters
Porsche and Volkswagen have reached a tentative agreement for a merger of the two legendary German automakers. The new automotive enterprise may come to be called "Auto Union" and will likely be led by current VW CEO Martin Winterkorn.

After Porsche's failed attempt at a takeover of VW Group, and after having run up a huge debt in the process, the two automakers have come together to settle their differences and attempt to create a single car making entity with the Porsche brand remaining intact.

Under the terms in the outline agreement, VW would come to buy a 49 percent stake in sportscar-making division Porsche AG from the family-owned Porsche Holding SE, which is also a dealership group in Europe. Porsche already owns 50 percent of VW's voting stock. The combined company would generate about 120 billion euros a year in sales.

Porsche has gotten into trouble with its pursuit of VW and run up a debt of around 10 billion euros. The company is valued by analysts as being worth between 8 and 11 billion.

The German state of Lower Saxony, which owns a veto-wielding 20 percent stake in VW, is expected to retain that same share of the new automotive group.

Details still need to be worked out between the two automakers and nothing is assured. But one board member did tell Reuters that "questions over valuation have been resolved."

[The Pretender]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/auto-union-name-to-return-as-vwporsche-parent-group.html

[Erik]

Now we know what has been going on :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8212624.stm