Nissan cheat yet again and record 7min27s on the Nurburgring

[Z07]

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/235238/nissan_gtr_breaks_ring_record.html



Nissan GT-R breaks Ring record
Nissan takes GT-R around the Norschleife and breaks previous 7min 29sec lap record
16th April 2009
Nissan has tried to put to bed the controversy surrounding the GT-R’s Nurburgring lap record by having another crack. And it’s good news for the Japanese – the 2010 model year GT-R, with 478bhp and a modified launch control – beat the previous 7min 29sec time with a 7.27.56.

The car was piloted by Toshio Suzuki, a former stand-in Formula 1 driver, but Nissan still isn’t quite satisfied with the time – ‘although dry, the track surface grip was impaired by dust and sand’. That means another attempt is due in the next few days, with the Corvette ZR-1’s 7.26.40 firmly in Suzuki’s sights.

As well as a smidge extra power, the updated GT-R gets a retuned gearbox, fettled suspension, a larger fuel tank and slightly better fuel economy, although this probably wasn’t too key around the Nordschleife. Stay tuned for more updates as Nissan continues its efforts at the Ring.

[JavierNuvolari]

Nothing about cheating on the link you posted...

[Ruergard]

Nothing about cheating on the link you posted...

You missed the ";)", right? ;)

[RXBG]

why are they trying so hard when they know they can't beat the ZR1? the ZR1 has proven it matches very closely the handling of the GTR, and maybe even the R8, on the dry tarmac, but it has absolutely a different league of power- it is overwhelming and something the GTR will never be able to match. Ever.

The GTR II, III, IV, whatever... will never catch the vette, let alone the ACR. Not sure why nissan is trying so hard.

the next gen GTR- maybe, i suppose. but not this one.

[KresoF1]

Few comments....

GT-R used for test is NOT EU or German specs car. Nissan lied here.

GT-R is again delayed in both German and EU specs for early June, maybe even later... Why? This time God only knows...

Chances for seems GT-R test(of EU/German specs car) in German and Italian magazines any time soon are as slim as possible.

[Z07]

Nothing about cheating on the link you posted...
I was waiting for the experts to fill us in.



why are they trying so hard when they know they can't beat the ZR1? the ZR1 has proven it matches very closely the handling of the GTR, and maybe even the R8, on the dry tarmac, but it has absolutely a different league of power- it is overwhelming and something the GTR will never be able to match. Ever.
The ZR1 has 640bhp, the GTR has 478bhp. What would a GTR600 do:

http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/ItemDetail.php?Item_ID=366&cart=WdATAWCh&DoThis=Nissan+GTR+%282009%29&ActionReq=Where

or a GTR800:

http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/ItemDetail.php?Item_ID=367&cart=WdATAWCh&DoThis=Nissan+GTR+%282009%29&ActionReq=Where

Did I mention that there's a $1500 fix for the gearbox issue?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrr8UUuoNcE

All for the price of a ZR1.

[Benman]

I've never had first hand experience with Hennessy (so my take is worth a grain of salt), but past stories have scared me away from them and I am not sure I would turn over an $70K+ car over to them. Especially when they have no past history with that model.

Ben:addict:

[RXBG]

we are talking STOCK cars here Z07. nissan keeps going out of its way to make this a point when quoting their figures so this is the basis for the discussion/comparison/argument.

if you are going to start talking modded cars forget it. there are modded Z06's (not even ZR1's) that could destroy a GTR800. one such creation broke a 10 sec flat 1/4 mile at over 136 mph at a local dragstrip recently. and no, there was no NOS.

[Ruergard]

Few comments....

GT-R used for test is NOT EU or German specs car. Nissan lied here.

GT-R is again delayed in both German and EU specs for early June, maybe even later... Why? This time God only knows...

Chances for seems GT-R test(of EU/German specs car) in German and Italian magazines any time soon are as slim as possible.

Spot on.

I would like to see Nissan doing the test and then letting someone else take a look at the car, check the weight and also put it on a dyno.

This would stop my doubt in this car, it is magically quick but is it really that fast? :vhmmm:

[Z07]

if you are going to start talking modded cars forget it. there are modded Z06's (not even ZR1's) that could destroy a GTR800. one such creation broke a 10 sec flat 1/4 mile at over 136 mph at a local dragstrip recently. and no, there was no NOS.
Send that round the 'ring on street-legal tyres and it'll end up in a tree, same as a stock Z06 did, whilst trying to break 7:40. The GTR can exploit 800+bhp, I'm surprised the ZR-1 even managed with 640.

[Z07]

Spot on.

I would like to see Nissan doing the test and then letting someone else take a look at the car, check the weight and also put it on a dyno.

This would stop my doubt in this car, it is magically quick but is it really that fast? :vhmmm:
Not really because you could remotely trigger an ECU map and tell it to provide fake boost readings at the start of the lap. All depends on how paranoid you want to be.

[Leadfoot]

When is the release of the GTR happening in Europe and the UK?

It must not have happened yet because I am yet to see any on the roads and I know of one guy who most definitely will be first in line.

[Z07]

I believe they're already here. Middlehurst were handing out the first ones on 09/04/2009.

[Roger]

During this Nissan had members of the press were in attendance as well as representatives from Porsche Stuttgart. The cars were inspected before and after the run. I'm not sure why so many claim cheating and accept any other manufacturer claims without question.

http://www.gtrblog.com/2009/04/16/nissan-gt-r-nurburgring-7-27/

[chewym]

Because the Nissan times are pointless for comparison. Everyone is used to comparing Ring times from magazines. Then Nissan comes in with times that are way better than many cars, but there is a giant difference between the factory quoted times and the times everyone is used to.

The only magazine times for the GT-R that I have seen is 7:54 (not in best conditions, but a Porsche that ran at the same time did better)

Basically Nissan/Chevy have created Ring times which are impressive but pointless.

I remember the "official" Audi time for the RS4 was 7:58, but Audi didn't publish press releases all over the places claiming how awesome they were.

[M3 owner]

Comparing Nissan w/ Porsche is utterly ridiculous…Laughable! GTR fans look 4 any excuse 2 belittle the very brand that Nissan tries so DESPERATLEY & unsuccessfully 2 emulate.

The “updated” GTR went on sale in Aus this month.Each owner is required 2 sign a document that forbids them from driving the car on a racetrack,disused airport or even a dyno. Break any1 of these rules & u can kiss ur warranty good bye. Basically, u r only permitted 2 use this car 2 chauffeur ur frail granny 2 church on Sundays.

[The RS6]

When is the release of the GTR happening in Europe and the UK?

There is one in Croatia...

http://www.drift-hr.com/showthread.php?t=633

These are from the dealers' but a friend of mine saw it on the streets...

[KresoF1]

There is one in Croatia...

http://www.drift-hr.com/showthread.php?t=633

These are from the dealers' but a friend of mine saw it on the streets...

This car is a GREY IMPORT from USA. Oficially, chances for sale of GT-R via Nissan Croatia are very slim.

Sale start officially in Germany for example is end of May/early June.

[KresoF1]

Here is the pic of EU specs GT-R. See the changes?
http://www.omniauto.it/awpImages/photogallery/2009/8902/photos/nissan-al-salone-di-ginevra-2009_18.jpg

[JavierNuvolari]

Comparing Nissan w/ Porsche is utterly ridiculous…Laughable! GTR fans look 4 any excuse 2 belittle the very brand that Nissan tries so DESPERATLEY & unsuccessfully 2 emulate.

The “updated” GTR went on sale in Aus this month.Each owner is required 2 sign a document that forbids them from driving the car on a racetrack,disused airport or even a dyno. Break any1 of these rules & u can kiss ur warranty good bye. Basically, u r only permitted 2 use this car 2 chauffeur ur frail granny 2 church on Sundays.

If so...then the GTR is the most laughable failure in recent motoring...a sports car you can take to a racetrack...very sad for Nissan really, I have to confess that I wanted the GTR to be...well...what it is not.

[Roger]

I doubt any such document exists. the same rumors were said about the Gt-r in the USA, I own one and was never offered any such document. As for the 'ring times, the runs were videoed ands posted for inspection. In addtion, for the newest 7:27 run Porsche and members of the press were present to inspect the car before and after the run. As for M3's claim of the 7:54 time, it was done in the rain and the other car was a GT2.

[M3 owner]

Yeah mate,I have nothing better 2 do w/ my time but 2 make things up.The fact that Aussies r required 2 take their 2nd generation GTR’s back 2 the dealership once they reach 2,000km so Nissan can check their gearbox & clutch is a lie as well.The fact that U r OBLIGATED 2 take it back 2 the dealership once a year after that 2,000km check up so they can continue 2 check the gearbox & clutch (free of charge) is a lie as well.

Everyone knows that this car’s gearbox is weak.Aussie journalists r now uncovering that the GTR’s breaks fade very quickly.Does this sound like a car that has the right 2 compare itself with the legendary 911 ?

4 the record,I don’t hate Japanese cars,the 1st 3 cars I had were Japanese.My series 6/7 Twin Turbo RX7 was 1 of the best cars I’ve ever owned.That car was a masterpiece.I even had a deposit on the GTR until all these gearbox problems arose.The problems I had w/ the travesty of a gearbox in the Lemon E92 has put me right of paddles,I have no intention of going through that hell again.I will go back 2 a manual box regardless of how much traffic there is in Sydney or regardless of how badly it will affect its future sale price.

Not Nissan bashing mate,just stating facts.I like 2 c ppl/companies build a reputation,not manufacture 1.

[Roger]

I agree that the GT-R has a maintenance schedule and the visits to the dealer are free of charge. Most luxury brands in the US have similar programs, including Audi, BMW, MB, Lexus. Free scheduled maintenace is considered a positive thing, not a negative. In the US the first maintenance for the GT-R is called performance optimization and is completed after 1000 miles to check all systems are within specifcations after the break-in period. I consider this great that they care about the car and it's performance.

I've also heard of the rumors of gearbox problems on various blogs, but I know a few hundered GT-R owners (from NAGTROC.com) and only one has had a gearbox failure from normal use. Many of these owners regularly track their cars and go to the dragstrip without problems. One highly modified GT-R with over 600hp and running low 10's at the dragstip (10.47, 10.55) did blow the gearbox, but on a modified drag car with a stock gearbox this can be expected.

[M3 owner]

GT-R CUSTOMER DISCLOSURE FORM
For use with 2010 Model GT-R
IMPORTANT Customer Information

Advisory of MY2010 Specification Change
The MY2010 Nissan GT-R features enhanced programming that will optimize clutch-engagement control for improved drivability. The maximum RPM for initial start with VDC ON has been increased, providing increased power at launch with smooth and powerful acceleration which will be improved compared to the original specification MY2009 vehicles prior to implementation of this upgrade. Maximum RPM at launch with VDC OFF (which should only be used when stuck in snow or mud) has been decreased, and acceleration with VDC OFF will be moderated.
The GT-R will continue to offer supercar characteristics of exceptional handling, maneuvering, and overall driving experience. You are reminded to drive safely and obey all traffic laws. The GT-R Owner’s Manual expressly warns against driving with the VDC OFF (except to free the vehicle when stuck in mud or snow) to avoid damage. Repairs for damage caused by driving with VDC OFF are expressly excluded under the terms of the Nissan GT-R New Car Limited Warranty. To avoid risk for such repairs, you are reminded to drive with VDC ON at all times. Except when stuck, there is no reason to be driving with VDC OFF.
Exclusions and Limitations to Manufacturers Warranty
Please read your GT-R Warranty Information Booklet carefully. The Nissan GT-R warranty provides you with extensive coverage when the vehicle is operated in accordance with the Owner’s Manual. The warranty includes a number of other specific conditions, exclusions and limitations, which include (but are not limited to) exclusions due to failures resulting from:
Racing, competitive driving of any sort and/or any use on a track or airstrip, or otherwise not operating or maintaining the vehicle as set out in the Owner’s Manual and Service and Maintenance Guide;
Operating the vehicle with the Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC) off, except when rocking vehicle when stuck in mud or snow;
Not adhering to the service and maintenance requirements set out in the Nissan GT-R Owner’s Manual and the Service and Maintenance Guide, including failures resulting from the use of non-Genuine Nissan Parts or required or recommended fluids;
improper repairs or services rendered at facilities other than Nissan Certified GT-R dealerships;
Failing to have the Performance Optimization Services completed in a timely manner;
Genuine Nissan Parts not intended for use on the GT-R, including NISMO parts not specifically designed and manufactured for application to the GT-R, or any non-Genuine Nissan Parts;
Replacing a GT-R special specification part with a non-GT-R special specification part (see GT-R Owner’s Manual for the list of GT-R special specification parts);
Operating the GT-R on a dynamometer, except a dynamometer test performed to comply with applicable local law for emissions testing.
Additionally, some modifications will VOID your GT-R New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage. Read your warranty information booklet carefully for specific details of all terms, conditions, limitations and exclusions.
Important: Additional Exclusion and Warranty Voiding
Damage to the power train, or any drive train component(s) that occurs when there is a record in the Vehicle System Data Recorder (VSDR) that the vehicle was driven with the VDC off during the period when the damage was incurred is excluded from coverage under this warranty.
Adding, replacing, reprogramming, attempting to reprogram, altering or disconnecting any computer, control unit, or electronic module or deleting any
or all stored information in any computer, control unit, or electronic module, or denying access to any data or information stored in any computer, control unit, or electronic module VOIDS ALL COVERAGE under the 2010 Nissan GT-R New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Such actions are also "misuse" and “tampering” as those terms are used under "What Is Not Covered" in the warranty. See your Owners Manual for additional important information and related warnings

[Leadfoot]

This above would put me off buying one, even though I probably wouldn't ever track the car anyway. The most laughable thing is that Nissan are spending huge amounts of money and time at the ring to show the world that the GTR is as quick if not quicker than the rest of the competition but it seems pointless when the owners can't ever hope to repeat this or even have a bit of fun on a track which is the whole objective of owning a car like this.

In my opinion each time they improve their lap time only makes it more laughable. But who is the joke on, is it Nissan or the owners?

[Roger]

We don't have this exact statement for our US cars, but isn't it the same for all cars? If you chip or reflash the ECU of an M3 or RS6 and then blow your tanny or engine it will not be covered under warranty. Ther same is true for racing here in the US. If you take your AMG SL55 to the drag strip and it breaks, when you tow it to the dealer you better not say it broke on your third pass at the track...no chance they will cover it under warranty. This it true for ALL brands. Subaru gave STI owners an SCCA membership, then voided the warranty if they participated in the events.

[kju]

This it true for ALL brands. Subaru gave STI owners an SCCA membership, then voided the warranty if they participated in the events.

lol i like this one especially....!

[Benman]

This it true for ALL brands. Subaru gave STI owners an SCCA membership, then voided the warranty if they participated in the events.


Yes, I remember that. We DO need to remember manufactures views on "racing". Most (with the possible exception of Porsche) "officially" frown on tracking their cars. Audi has track events with the best of them, but try telling the dealer you towed the car to them straight from the race track and you demand everything covered under warranty. ;)

Ben:addict:

[chewym]

Here is the only independent test of the GT-R that I know of:

Porsche 911 GT2 7:49
Nissan GT-R: 7:56

same driver/same day

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/great_drives/0903_2009_nissan_gtr_vs_2009_porsche_911_gt2_nurbu rgring/final_scores.html

[Jani]

http://magazines.drivers-republic.com/driversrepublic/thetruth030/

I'd call that independent as well.

GT-R is an amazing car, no doubt about that, be it 7.27 or 7.56.

[emve]

Update from today :

New record for the GT-R

7:26,7 (previously 7:27,6)

Another attempt in a few hours.

[KresoF1]

Update from today :

New record for the GT-R

7:26,7 (previously 7:27,6)

Another attempt in a few hours.

Within next 48h GT-R in hands of Suzuki San will be on 7.1xmin level...;):jlol:

[Erik]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090424.002/2010-porsche-911-gt3-posts-7m-40s-time-on-nurburgring

Porsche test driver Walter Rohrl, who was piloting the car, was apparently slowed down by the presence of other vehicles on the track. Had Rohrl really been going for it "with a knife between his teeth" said Preuninger, his time would have come down by as much as two seconds. Furthermore Rohrl apparently did a 7 minute 45 seconds in a borrowed Ferrari F430 Scuderia. The time was achieved under the same conditions as the GT3.

As for the Nissan GT-R, Preuninger noted that Porsche's official line is that the 7 minute 54 second time it achieved with a US-spec unit in 2008 stands. Nissan said in May 2008 that the GT-R did a 7 minute 29.03 seconds at the German track in the hands of its chief test driver Tochio Suzuki. The updated 2010 GT-R is claimed to have done an even quicker time of 7 minutes 27.56 seconds.

The third member of this feuding trio is the Corvette ZR1 which has a posted time of 7 minutes 26.4 seconds at the Green Hell. Preuninger's remarks on the ‘Vette were only to say it's a cool car but it serves a different purpose than the GT3.

[KresoF1]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090424.002/2010-porsche-911-gt3-posts-7m-40s-time-on-nurburgring

Porsche test driver Walter Rohrl, who was piloting the car, was apparently slowed down by the presence of other vehicles on the track. Had Rohrl really been going for it "with a knife between his teeth" said Preuninger, his time would have come down by as much as two seconds. Furthermore Rohrl apparently did a 7 minute 45 seconds in a borrowed Ferrari F430 Scuderia. The time was achieved under the same conditions as the GT3.

As for the Nissan GT-R, Preuninger noted that Porsche's official line is that the 7 minute 54 second time it achieved with a US-spec unit in 2008 stands. Nissan said in May 2008 that the GT-R did a 7 minute 29.03 seconds at the German track in the hands of its chief test driver Tochio Suzuki. The updated 2010 GT-R is claimed to have done an even quicker time of 7 minutes 27.56 seconds.

The third member of this feuding trio is the Corvette ZR1 which has a posted time of 7 minutes 26.4 seconds at the Green Hell. Preuninger's remarks on the ‘Vette were only to say it's a cool car but it serves a different purpose than the GT3.

Hmm... Do you know Horst von Saurma 430 Scuderia time on the Ring? 7.39min So, good old Horst is faster in Scud then Rohrl... Yeah, Porschefilles will claim now about track conditions etc.;)

[Leadfoot]

Hmm... Do you know Horst von Saurma 430 Scuderia time on the Ring? 7.39min So, good old Horst is faster in Scud then Rohrl... Yeah, Porschefilles will claim now about track conditions etc.;)

Of course the track conditions were worse. :lovl:

[Z07]

Update from today :

New record for the GT-R

7:26,7 (previously 7:27,6)

Another attempt in a few hours.
Any evidence?

Nevermind, found it:

http://www.2009gtr.com/

[Z07]

Hmm... Do you know Horst von Saurma 430 Scuderia time on the Ring? 7.39min So, good old Horst is faster in Scud then Rohrl... Yeah, Porschefilles will claim now about track conditions etc.;)
Porsche test drivers seem to be very slow when driving other manufacturers' cars.:looking:

[Roger]

Porsche test drivers seem to be very slow when driving other manufacturers' cars.:looking:

That's an interesting point, now there are two manufacturers who Porsche say they can not repeat the claimed time at the ring. I guess that means Ferrari cheats too.

Now that there are private GT-Rs in Europe, amatures are driving the GTR at the ring. Here is a video of an amature driver who claims a total of 40 lifetime lap experience, do under 8 minutes. This was on a public track day, with traffic to deal with. How could Porsche only manage a 7:54 alone on the track and a pro driver who is an expert at the ring?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9_-8lWKJGo

[Z07]

That's an interesting point, now there are two manufacturers who Porsche say they can not repeat the claimed time at the ring. I guess that means Ferrari cheats too.
Ferrari's time was Sport Auto or the Sport Auto time was only a few seconds stray I think.



Now that there are private GT-Rs in Europe, amatures are driving the GTR at the ring. Here is a video of an amature driver who claims a total of 40 lifetime lap experience, do under 8 minutes. This was on a public track day, with traffic to deal with. How could Porsche only manage a 7:54 alone on the track and a pro driver who is an expert at the ring?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9_-8lWKJGo
That GTR was mildly tweaked - Cobb Access Port Stage 1 - but nevertheless it was in traffic and driven by an amateur driver, so Rohrl should be a lot faster. Typically the difference between a good amateur and a pro on the 'ring is about 30 seconds and you can add more for traffic. As an example, plenty of people on the UK GTR site have highly-tuned 8 min capable RB GTRs but the fastest people are around 8:30-8:50 in traffic. Professionals are professionals for a reason.