My RS6 Update

[Copper]

I listed my Avus Silver RS6 on eBay and told my wife "Oh, well didn't sell" She said that's fine you would just start shopping for something else anyway...

Today I relisted it for a lower Buy it Now and Reserve then decided to go take the 'ol girl for a quick drive to the gym.

I dialed up the Revo tune to Program #3 for the first time and flashed the ECU.

Holy smoke. You can really hear the turbo hiss now and the thing is just crazy fast. I was pretty surprised at the difference. I have no idea what sort of HP/Torque I'm at however the butt dyno says somewhere north of 500HP for sure.

So what now? I came home and ended the auction early. I'm just not sure that for $40K there is anything out there that is equally as fast, stealthy and fun. All last week I've been searching the Internet and driving to some local high-end dealers in town test driving some new sports cars and I'm not able to find just the right car. I came very close to pulling the trigger on a 2008 AMG CLK63 Black Series. Brutally fast but still, it is a dressed up Mercedes-Benz. They were willing to part with it for $78K but in the end, am I getting $40K more car than what I already own? No.


This summer I'm looking to get 19" wheels of some sort to set the car apart a little bit but to keep a stealthy look. I'm wating for the recall on the DRC system to be completed before I make any wheel modifications.
I like the DTM-race style wheels like what comes on the AMG Black Series. It will be fun shopping for something new. I have almost brand new PS2s on the stock 18"s that I will put a few more miles on before moving to a larger diameter wheel and tire setup as well.


So, I'm still here and the car is getting less use sitting in the garage being used for local trips and weekend excursions which makes me feel better about keeping it and not putting 20-30K miles on it a year.

[MaxRS6]

http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=82

[terrytcl]

i'll have to try Program #3...

did you run it on 93 octane or higher?


good to hear you're keeping her. i took mine out on saturday before our snow storm (gotta love chicago)... it was fun getting planted into the seat... the a8L behind me had a "WTF" face that i will always remember. hahahaha - he turned to his wife and then pointed at me as i was almost at the next light. hahahahha

[DHall1]

Sean,

Your journey so similar to mine. All I can do is laugh as I read your fact finding mission. Did you know that I too looked at a AMG CLKBlack series. That AMG makes a statement of having a big ol sledgehammer to smash any competitor. And, no DRC...the car has coilovers at it should. But 80-90k is alot of money. I cant leave the RS just yet. I can piss and moan about Audi and the DRC but they have not lost me just yet.

I will get the REVO installed on my car soon and will also upgrade wheels after I wear out my PS2s that are on the car.

Cheers to you...glad your keeping the RS. :cheers:

Dave
03RS Avus/Bla/Carbon




I listed my Avus Silver RS6 on eBay and told my wife "Oh, well didn't sell" She said that's fine you would just start shopping for something else anyway...

Today I relisted it for a lower Buy it Now and Reserve then decided to go take the 'ol girl for a quick drive to the gym.

I dialed up the Revo tune to Program #3 for the first time and flashed the ECU.

Holy smoke. You can really hear the turbo hiss now and the thing is just crazy fast. I was pretty surprised at the difference. I have no idea what sort of HP/Torque I'm at however the butt dyno says somewhere north of 500HP for sure.

So what now? I came home and ended the auction early. I'm just not sure that for $40K there is anyhing out there that is equally as fast, stealthy and fun. All last week I've been searching the Internet and driving to some local high-end dealers in town test driving some new sports cars and I'm not able to find just the right car. I came very close to pulling the trigger on a 2008 AMG CLK63 Black Series. Brutally fast but still, it is a dressed up Mercedes-Benz. They were willing to part with it for $78K but in the end, am I getting $40K more car than what I already own? No.


This summer I'm looking to get 19" wheels of some sort to set the car apart a little bit but to keep a stealthy look. I'm wating for the recall on the DRC system to be completed before I make any wheel modifications.
I like the DTM-race style wheels like what comes on the AMG Black Series. It will be fun shopping for something new. I have almost brand new PS2s on the stock 18"s that I will put a few more miles on before moving to a larger diameter wheel and tire setup as well.


So, I'm still here and the car is getting less use sitting in the garage being used for local trips and weekend excursions which makes me feel better about keeping it and not putting 20-30K miles on it a year.

[DHall1]

Max,

Damn, those are nice looking. Way to go with your first post. Tell us more about your car and the specs on those bad boys!


http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=82

[MaxRS6]

RS-GT 19 X 18.5, went with the Goodyear F1 Asymmetric to give them a shot.

Avus Silver/Ebony
DRC ripped out for KWs
APR
R-1 Diverter valves
RNS-E
StaSis BBK
RS6+pedals
PIAA fogs

Only 104K and looking forward to the next 100K

[DuckWingDuck]

gotta love those BBS. There's at least four or five of us with that same wheel. Sean, ultimately, you're right, at this point, for the price and performance, there's absolutely no reason not to keep the RS6. There is simply nothing that compares unless you spend a significantly higher amount of money.

[Copper]

I'm running 93 Octane which is standard premium around here in the Southeast.

Dave, funny I didn't know that you were also looking at the Black Series. It's a really cool looking "I'm going to eat your babies" kind of car out on the road for sure. On the test drive (which required the GM's approval but once they saw I drove up in an RS6... no issues) there were a lot of fingers pointed my way and waves. While that is fun at first, I've owned enough specialty cars to know how annoying it can get eventually.

It is a little sad however that I get constant compliments and comments about the 2009 Gen 7 Maxima. I rarely get any attention in the RS6. Today I left the gas station driving the Maxima and some woman chased me down asking me what kind of car it was, etc. I should have left the badges on... :hahahehe:

[DHall1]

Could you please, please take pics of your car with those wheels?

My ideal wheel for the Avus color is something with a "black chrome type" of center. Just like those BBS. IMHO that will really look fantastic!

Please take pics and welcome on the crazy train.




RS-GT 19 X 18.5, went with the Goodyear F1 Asymmetric to give them a shot.

Avus Silver/Ebony
DRC ripped out for KWs
APR
R-1 Diverter valves
RNS-E
StaSis BBK
RS6+pedals
PIAA fogs

Only 104K and looking forward to the next 100K

[DHall1]

Well, I can tell you that the AMG Black series was speaking to the sledgehammer side to my personality. I mean its a sledgehammer and everyone around you will know it. I dont know if I could drive something like that around town on a daily basis. Just too much attention. Its one of the reasons why I sold my last Supra twin turbo....it was the Royal Sapphire Pearl blue, huge wing and some big time modifications that literally made the car look like it came right off of Fast and Furious. It just was not me. Sold it and kept my old faithful 87 Supra Turbo w/500hp. hehe

So yes, the RS fits my driving style and not having anything flashy to an extreme. But, I will put the Revo and some wheels on the ol girl to freshen her up. Got to take care of the sledgehammer side just alittle.

Good thread. It reminds us why we put up with DRC and Audi sometimes.




I'm running 93 Octane which is standard premium around here in the Southeast.

Dave, funny I didn't know that you were also looking at the Black Series. It's a really cool looking "I'm going to eat your babies" kind of car out on the road for sure. On the test drive (which required the GM's approval but once they saw I drove up in an RS6... no issues) there were a lot of fingers pointed my way and waves. While that is fun at first, I've owned enough specialty cars to know how annoying it can get eventually.

It is a little sad however that I get constant compliments and comments about the 2009 Gen 7 Maxima. I rarely get any attention in the RS6. Today I left the gas station driving the Maxima and some woman chased me down asking me what kind of car it was, etc. I should have left the badges on... :hahahehe:

[Spidercat]

Copper,
Nice to hear you're still going to stay around a while longer!!!
You really need to "discover" the boost at 9! And then there's always race fuel and timing at 9...:hahahehe: :revs::MTM::burnout:
I bet you never turn it down again!

Did you de-badge your RS6 or the Maxima? So you've got women following you home while you're driving your Maxima???
I'm going to google this new Maxima right now. I've got to see this car.

[DHall1]

LOL to both points. Boost and women.

:eye:





Copper,
Nice to hear you're still going to stay around a while longer!!!
You really need to "discover" the boost at 9! And then there's always race fuel and timing at 9...:hahahehe: :revs::MTM::burnout:
I bet you never turn it down again!

Did you de-badge your RS6 or the Maxima? So you've got women following you home while you're driving your Maxima???
I'm going to google this new Maxima right now. I've got to see this car.

[MaxRS6]

I'll post up some pics when I put the wheels on later this evening.

[DHall1]

Speaking of filling the sledgehammer needs.

I cleaned up my wife's E55 AMG this weekend then took it for a ride and wanted it for the day. She was all over that deal....I was busted big time. LOL That was pretty funny. Here honey you want to take the SUV today.

Smack. :nono: You have your Audi...go take it today.

:bow: Me so sorry....here are your keys.

[MaxRS6]

I had no issues with rubbing or vibrations and they fill out the well nicely. :burnout:

http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=85

http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=84

http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=83

[allwheelsdriven]

nice BBS :)

I guess the good thing about those 2008 AMG CLK63 Black Series...give it about 5-6 years and they will be around $40k

[DuckWingDuck]

those are 19s right? I should've gone 19.....

<img src=http://pictures.twilightstar.net/d/21098-2/IMG_0449.JPG>

<img src=http://pictures.twilightstar.net/d/21134-2/IMG_0457.JPG>

<img src=http://pictures.twilightstar.net/d/22053-2/IMG_0894.JPG>

<img src=http://pictures.twilightstar.net/d/21924-2/IMG_0849.JPG>

[MaxRS6]

Yes- they are 19's.

The BBS's look great on your car

[DuckWingDuck]

thanks! they may look great but honestly, they make driving a pain in the ass, 19 is the ideal size if you want to throw your car around a little bit. 255/30-20 is a pain on the back too!

[Copper]

Those BBS wheels look great guys. They help me get ideas about what I'm going to go with. Yeah, I'm going to stick with 19'" and not any bigger than that for sure. Greg, I really like the 20" wheels on your car but I think that they may be a bit too big for the RS6 as you have mentioned.

I de-badged the Maxima not the RS6. I keep the Maxima in the driveway (poor thing) and I've had 3 neighbors come over and ask me about the car already. What the hell is up with that?

9 boost? What did you set the fuel and timing to for 93 octane fuel Spidercat?

Dave, REVO man. I'm telling you get APR, REVO, GAIC or something and you will be shocked if you've played around with modified Supras. I can't even stand to drive the RS6 in stock mode the 8 mile distance taking it to the dealer. It feels like the car is driving in mud or something.


Also considering Miltek exhaust at some point for a sound improvement though the SE stock unit is really nice. I wonder if anyone is running the SE exhaust with the center resonator removed?

[DuckWingDuck]

everybody says getting the car chipped is like having kids, you wish you'd have done it sooner.

sean, well, here's the thing, it's not so much the larger wheel but the fact that you're running such thin tyres! That's the killer part. If the wheel well were large enough to accommodate 255 or 265/35-20, then it might be better. Ultimately though, 19 is the right size, especially if you're going to do more than scare kids going through the stoplights or even want to do anything more than driving in a straight line (okay, that's maybe a little too harsh), but you get my point!

I mean, look at MaxRS6's tyres. They may be 35(?) but that additional 5% makes a big difference.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=82

[DHall1]

The wheels make my short list.

MTM Bimoto, BBS, RS6+ euro. All in 19"

Yes, yes...Revo. I am on it. :hahahehe:

I know....the RS is just a sleeper. I dont understand it but its part of the reason why I enjoy it so much. I mean listen to Fonze's vid...its priceless. Nobody knows what this car is capable of. Its scary.

Example, one of my neighbors here in town...old guy(car guy)...raced all kinds of cars, purchased a Shelby Cobra SC427 brand new...just sold it for 650k. Drives a Shelby replicacar with a 500hp V8 right now. You get the idea, anyways...he just loved my wifes E55 and goes nuts over that car. He understands the RS but just loves the E55. I dont get it. Crazy.

Oh well


Those BBS wheels look great guys. They help me get ideas about what I'm going to go with. Yeah, I'm going to stick with 19'" and not any bigger than that for sure. Greg, I really like the 20" wheels on your car but I think that they may be a bit too big for the RS6 as you have mentioned.

I de-badged the Maxima not the RS6. I keep the Maxima in the driveway (poor thing) and I've had 3 neighbors come over and ask me about the car already. What the hell is up with that?

9 boost? What did you set the fuel and timing to for 93 octane fuel Spidercat?

Dave, REVO man. I'm telling you get APR, REVO, GAIC or something and you will be shocked if you've played around with modified Supras. I can't even stand to drive the RS6 in stock mode the 8 mile distance taking it to the dealer. It feels like the car is driving in mud or something.


Also considering Miltek exhaust at some point for a sound improvement though the SE stock unit is really nice. I wonder if anyone is running the SE exhaust with the center resonator removed?

[GEN XER]

The RS6 just gets in your blood. It becomes a part of you. I remember standing at the dealer in 2003 looking at the A8L. I had just come back from my first tour of Iraq, lovely place, you should visit once we settle it, anyway I was putting the 8 through the test we ran the numbers I was approved for the car but something happened. The sales guy took me through the showroom where this Avus Silver A6 but more aggressive looking than any other A6 was sitting, we were walking to complete the deal but once I saw this car the A8L deal was done. I walked over to the car read the badge RS6, the sales guy comes over to tell me its the only one here, its a limited edition Audi, blah, blah, blah, by this time I am already caught up, so caught up that I tell the sales guy I dont want the A8L, I want this RS6. Well there was a small problem, see they did not have a price listed on it and I was clueless to what I was looking at, but when he told me 87K my world paused. In my mind I started liquidating assets, selling stocks, selling houses, selling other cars, just to get cash for a down payment, I mean whatever it took to have this car right now. I was having the worst impulse buy moment of my life, but my now wife helped bring me through the moment by telling me I could have the car later at a lower price and have just as much fun with it. Then she left it up to me, I took deep breaths counted to 100, and walked away from the A8L and the RS6, but before I left I whispered to the RS6 that I would find her later and I did. Tear.

[DHall1]

:love: Willie in 2003

:cry: Willie after buying a SRT8

:love2: Willie in 2009 after making due the RS6 promise




The RS6 just gets in your blood. It becomes a part of you. I remember standing at the dealer in 2003 looking at the A8L. I had just come back from my first tour of Iraq, lovely place, you should visit once we settle it, anyway I was putting the 8 through the test we ran the numbers I was approved for the car but something happened. The sales guy took me through the showroom where this Avus Silver A6 but more aggressive looking than any other A6 was sitting, we were walking to complete the deal but once I saw this car the A8L deal was done. I walked over to the car read the badge RS6, the sales guy comes over to tell me its the only one here, its a limited edition Audi, blah, blah, blah, by this time I am already caught up, so caught up that I tell the sales guy I dont want the A8L, I want this RS6. Well there was a small problem, see they did not have a price listed on it and I was clueless to what I was looking at, but when he told me 87K my world paused. In my mind I started liquidating assets, selling stocks, selling houses, selling other cars, just to get cash for a down payment, I mean whatever it took to have this car right now. I was having the worst impulse buy moment of my life, but my now wife helped bring me through the moment by telling me I could have the car later at a lower price and have just as much fun with it. Then she left it up to me, I took deep breaths counted to 100, and walked away from the A8L and the RS6, but before I left I whispered to the RS6 that I would find her later and I did. Tear.

[allwheelsdriven]

The RS6 just gets in your blood. It becomes a part of you. I remember standing at the dealer in 2003 looking at the A8L. I had just come back from my first tour of Iraq, lovely place, you should visit once we settle it, anyway I was putting the 8 through the test we ran the numbers I was approved for the car but something happened. The sales guy took me through the showroom where this Avus Silver A6 but more aggressive looking than any other A6 was sitting, we were walking to complete the deal but once I saw this car the A8L deal was done. I walked over to the car read the badge RS6, the sales guy comes over to tell me its the only one here, its a limited edition Audi, blah, blah, blah, by this time I am already caught up, so caught up that I tell the sales guy I dont want the A8L, I want this RS6. Well there was a small problem, see they did not have a price listed on it and I was clueless to what I was looking at, but when he told me 87K my world paused. In my mind I started liquidating assets, selling stocks, selling houses, selling other cars, just to get cash for a down payment, I mean whatever it took to have this car right now. I was having the worst impulse buy moment of my life, but my now wife helped bring me through the moment by telling me I could have the car later at a lower price and have just as much fun with it. Then she left it up to me, I took deep breaths counted to 100, and walked away from the A8L and the RS6, but before I left I whispered to the RS6 that I would find her later and I did. Tear.

movies have been made from less

[GEN XER]

:love: Willie in 2003

:cry: Willie after buying a SRT8

:love2: Willie in 2009 after making due the RS6 promise

Yes!

Hell Yes!!

Oh Yeah!!! How can you tell?


movies have been made from less
:incar::wo::incar:

[mmaturo]

I had no issues with rubbing or vibrations and they fill out the well nicely. :burnout:

http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=85

http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=84

http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=83

Nice. The gun metal color looks great. Good choice. Just got my 19" summers back on Saturday (although mine OEM 5 spoke 19s)...damn Chicago long winters

[terrytcl]

Nice. The gun metal color looks great. Good choice. Just got my 19" summers back on Saturday (although mine OEM 5 spoke 19s)...damn Chicago long winters


something tells me that we're not done yet.

:doh::doh::doh:

[MaxRS6]

http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=87

[Copper]

Nice. Me likey!

[DuckWingDuck]

anybody know where I can get a centerhub replacement? I want to replace the BBS centerhub with the audi rings....

[allwheelsdriven]

love that polished lip look

[DHall1]

Yes, I like that look.

BBS will stay on my short list. The darker centers really set off the polished lips and set against the Avus....perfect.




http://www.rs6.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=87

[Spidercat]

I de-badged the Maxima not the RS6. I keep the Maxima in the driveway (poor thing) and I've had 3 neighbors come over and ask me about the car already. What the hell is up with that?

9 boost? What did you set the fuel and timing to for 93 octane fuel Spidercat?

I can't even stand to drive the RS6 in stock mode the 8 mile distance taking it to the dealer. It feels like the car is driving in mud or something.


I had no idea the Maxima had such a following...

+1 about putting it in stock mode while driving to the dealer. Unless it's a CEL that may be related to anything chip-like, I just leave it turned up. If it may be anything chip-related, I don't put it to stock mode until the curb outside the dealer (ya never know when an opportunity will present itself on the way there...)

I use the same SPS box on my car and my wife's A4. Of the three programmable settings, I have the boost at 9 for all three, but the timing is at 3 (93 octane), 6 (race-pump mix), or 9 (race gas). I usually drive with the timing on 6, as I always use the race/pump mix. Honestly, the boost difference between say 6 and 9 is MUCH more noticeable on the A4, so I just leave it there since there are only 3 programmable slots on the box. This is all butt-dyno, mind you, but I usually drive with my butt in the seat, not on a dyno, so I'm OK with that. If I had access to a 1/4 mi strip, I'd do what 10secS4 did (11secRS6?), but I don't. It's interesting that he noted that the 4.2TT responded better to timing changes than boost changes. Granted, he has a custom tune, but the principles are the same, I think. Anyway, that's what I do, YMMV.
Wish we had a 1/4 mi around here!!!

[Copper]

Yeah, check out the sexy beast (Maxima) hahaha!


So, let me see if I understand this. For 93 Octane Fuel:


Boost = 9

Timing = 9

Fuel = 3

If I add octane booster to the 93 octane pump fuel then = 6


You programmed this in one of the A-B-C user slots?


Sound about right?

[MaxRS6]

decreased weight. The turns feel much lighter, and I am pleasantly surprised at how much of a difference the wheels made in performance IMHO.

Good luck in your hunt as you explore options. By the time I researched and pulled the trigger on these, I had voices in my head about the various options out there. The voices are still there but at least the topic has changed. :cheers:

[DHall1]

BTW,

Who has the best deal on these?



decreased weight. The turns feel much lighter, and I am pleasantly surprised at how much of a difference the wheels made in performance IMHO.

Good luck in your hunt as you explore options. By the time I researched and pulled the trigger on these, I had voices in my head about the various options out there. The voices are still there but at least the topic has changed. :cheers:

[DuckWingDuck]

tirerack?

[MaxRS6]

other vendors that offered small discounts. However; I received poor advice and in some instances just flat out wrong facts (tire size, spacers, etc.) from some vendors. In addition, Tirerack had the wheels in stock and ready for shipment. Some vendors required significant (to me) lag times with no assurance of specific delivery date. Tirerack shipped same day as order, and provided solid information as I researched my options.

Tirerack had also dealt with an earlier issue (they shipped two rear Hotchkis sway bars to me when I had ordered 1 front and 1 rear). They were all over it and I received the front bar promptly and professionally. Everyone can make a mistake- I judge a place by how they take care of issues if/when they arrive. To date- Tirerack has done me right.

This has not been a paid professional endorsement. :asian:

[DHall1]

I was going to guess TR. Fair description of your experience.

Thanks,


other vendors that offered small discounts. However; I received poor advice and in some instances just flat out wrong facts (tire size, spacers, etc.) from some vendors. In addition, Tirerack had the wheels in stock and ready for shipment. Some vendors required significant (to me) lag times with no assurance of specific delivery date. Tirerack shipped same day as order, and provided solid information as I researched my options.

Tirerack had also dealt with an earlier issue (they shipped two rear Hotchkis sway bars to me when I had ordered 1 front and 1 rear). They were all over it and I received the front bar promptly and professionally. Everyone can make a mistake- I judge a place by how they take care of issues if/when they arrive. To date- Tirerack has done me right.

This has not been a paid professional endorsement. :asian:

[DuckWingDuck]

Ya, unless you KNOW a distributor that can get you a good discount, it's probably not worth the hassle to try to save a couple dollars by going independent rather than dealing with someone like tirerack.

[Spidercat]

Yeah, check out the sexy beast (Maxima) hahaha!


So, let me see if I understand this. For 93 Octane Fuel:


Boost = 9

Timing = 9

Fuel = 3

If I add octane booster to the 93 octane pump fuel then = 6


You programmed this in one of the A-B-C user slots?


Sound about right?

Ahhhh.... so THAT'S the famous Maxima! New cars do have certain advantages...

Also, those wheels really expose the brakes! I must admit that that kind of exposure would look pretty good with the 6's brakes!

Anyway, my settings are:

A) Boost 9, Timing 3, Fuel 9 (93 OCT)
B) Boost 9, Timing 6, Fuel 9 (mix)
C) Boost 9, Timing 9, Fuel 9 (race fuel)

The A4 gets A; The RS6 gets B or C (or A if no race gas available).

If I go to the dealer (and possibility that aftermarket warranty may be invoked for CEL), right before I pull in I put it in stock.

I don't know why "Fuel" is even variable, so I leave it at 9. It doesn't have to do with the octane rating. The manual says something about lower quality fuel types around the world or something, but even in the US, I think it's all "9." Someone chime in if the know something different, as the manual is not in front of me.

[Golffather]

I'm not feelin those BBS wheels tbh

On a car like the RS6 the phatness of the original 5 spokes suits the lines so much better (imo) and complements the bulges and brute nature of the car, the flanks, the arches and everything else that seperate it from a normal A6.

The only rim which possibly supercedes the standard 19s would be the MTM Bimoto.

Just my opinion ofcourse but each to their own and as long as you're happy ;)

[MaxRS6]

As you state- to each their own and that is why the world is interesting.

I had the 9 spoke 18's on the car and wanted 19's in addition to lighter weight. They also had some off road bumps and bruises and it was time for a facelift. Since I had driven the car with spokes for over 5 years, I wanted a change in appearance and thus the BBS. To change to another spoke just didn't do much for me. I wanted a change in hair style and not just a trim. Who knows- I might change my mind at some point and put some spokes on again as wheels are easily changed. :)

I dropped nearly 8 pounds on each corner and is very noticeable in the responsiveness.

[allwheelsdriven]

wheel weight is a big deal...I remember swapping on some cool looking but heavy Prodrive PFF7's onto the STI and it felt like the wheels were driving the car around turns. I had no trouble selling them to a 20-something though

[DuckWingDuck]

IMO, and no disrespect to those that love their MTMs but 1. it's such a dated look, 2. ya, it's a little more streamlined/cleaned-up than the OEM but honestly, it doesn't look all that different from the OEM.

Grizz's carbon fibre, the carbon fibre from 360 forged, I think those are kinda cool.

Ultimately, weight is the issue.