X6M pics M is for meh

[RXBG]

or medicocre looks....

lets see how it goes.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-x6-m.html

[andreadebi]

555hp
680nm

pics

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-bmw-x6m-first-photos-of-m-version.html

All-New BMW X6 M and BMW X5 M Make World Debuts in 2009

Woodcliff Lake, NJ – April 5, 2009… The modern, sustainable legacy of BMW M GmbH began in 1985 when engineers placed the snarling, race-bred inline-6 engine from the M1 supercar into the production BMW 5 Series sedan, reworked the suspension and brakes, and created the first M5. Through this industry-first combination of attributes, the M5 redefined the capabilities of a sedan with levels of power, precision, balance, and linear control never before imaginable. Since then, finding new ways to expand the boundaries of what is possible with existing BMW models has been the singular purpose of the craftsmen at BMW M. Now the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M are the first all-wheel-drive models to offer the remarkable performance, dynamic driving experience, athletic design, and premium quality of a BMW M product.

Both models are powered by a newly-developed 4.4-liter V8 M engine delivering 555 hp at 6,000 rpm and 500 lb-ft of torque from 1500 to 5,650 rpm. This new M engine is the world’s first with a pulse-tuned exhaust manifold encompassing both rows of cylinders combined with high-performance twin-scroll twin turbo technology.

For the X5 M and X6 M, engineers at BMW M pushed the capabilities of BMW’s intelligent xDrive all-wheel-drive system and the Dynamic Performance Control system to manage the power and performance potential of these two new vehicles. The special M suspension includes Adaptive Drive and newly-developed Servotronic power steering. These features combine to push the limits of what was previously possible with a sports-oriented vehicle, and guarantee driving behavior characteristic of a BMW M product: incredible stability and precisely controlled steering qualities abound throughout the performance envelope.

The BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M set new standards of acceleration, lateral grip, steering response, balance, and stopping power among high-performance activity vehicles. Both models accelerate to 60 mph from a standstill in 4.5 seconds and feature impressive delivery of power from the V8 twin-turbo engine which provides maximum torque of 500 lb-ft from 1,500 and 5,650 rpm. From a handling standpoint, both vehicles are notable for superb balance through careful tuning of xDrive, Dynamic Performance Control, and Dynamic Stability Control with M Dynamic Mode for linear buildup of cornering forces. These capabilities place the performance of the X5 M and X6 M on par with the performance of other recent BMW M vehicles.

The athletic character and amazing performance abilities of the BMW X5 M and X6 M result from levels of development never before applied to this type of vehicle. As it did when creating the original M5, BMW M has once again shown that applying new technologies and innovations to a solid BMW production vehicle type will produce startling performance and an exhilarating drive. Both of these new models offer capabilities and dynamic driving experiences which are quite unique, and promise to provide thrills from everyday traffic to the race track.

Exterior Design: BMW M heritage reflecting function, purpose, and style. The outstanding potential of both models is communicated clearly in their looks and design, their performance-bred heritage presented convincingly by the common design of the front end with its large air intakes.

The hood, front air dam, and headlights are virtually identical on the BMW X5 M and X6 M. Both models feature special gills in the front fenders, as well as model- specific 20-inch light-alloy wheels. The signs of distinction of BMW M are presented in individual style at the rear, confirming the athletic character of each model. The rear diffuser on each model communicates a particularly powerful presence, and the quad tailpipes of the exhaust system are again a signature of BMW M’s masterful work.

Compared with the standard BMW X5 and BMW X6, the body-color surface area on the side skirts are designed to place greater emphasis on their road-going orientations. On both models the body designs fulfill major functions in terms of aerodynamics and the carefully controlled flow of cooling air.

The first modern turbocharged M engine: twin scrol l twin turbo technology with a patented exhaust manifold. Using BMW’s innovative, 4.4L reverse-flow V8 engine with High Precision Direct Injection and twin turbochargers as a basis, the new M engine introduces twin-scroll twin turbochargers and patented exhaust manifold technologies to achieve outstanding thrust and pulling force, while preserving the most compact dimensions possible. Two low-mass twin-scroll turbochargers are positioned together with the catalytic converters in the “V” section between the two banks of cylinders. By reversing the flow of gases through the engine from traditional arrangements, the intake and exhaust ducts are shortened and widened. The result is that pressure losses on the exhaust side are minimized.

The goals: virtually eliminate turbocharger lag while maximizing combustion efficiency and power output. Tremendous power and performance are delivered by the engine in the BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M through a new design and construction principle. The new M V8 engine with twin-scroll twin turbo technology uses a single exhaust manifold with tuned-length runners, incorporating both cylinder banks and connecting cylinders in carefully-selected pairs. This configuration, patented by BMW M and known as Cylinder-bank.

Comprehensive Manifold (CCM), offers lightning-quick response, a linear build-up of engine power, and a broad, consistent torque curve by feeding each of the twin turbochargers with a “charge pulse” at approximately every 90 degrees of crankshaft rotation, rather than the more traditional “irregular schedule” of charging.

The managed flow of exhaust gas provided by the CCM ensures high-velocity flow of combustion gases. The appropriate separation of exhaust gas flow from different cylinders is maintained until the gas reaches the turbine wheel, spooling the two twin-scroll turbochargers without back-pressure. With maximum boost pressure of 1.5 bar (21 psi), the use of twin-scroll twin turbo technology and the CCM exhaust manifold allows complete exploitation of the benefits of turbocharging.

Immediate response and remarkable thrust characterize the new V8 twin- turbocharged engine from BMW M GmbH. The impressive onset of power is accompanied by unique, engaging engine sounds that accentuate the quick- revving characteristics with the dynamic acoustic effect typical of a BMW M product. The sounds are always civilized, but transform from relatively calm to extraordinarily intense as the boost and revs build from idle. Reflecting the tremendous power of the engine, the turbocharged M V8 is equipped with an advanced cooling system developed specifically for the two new models. One notable feature in this context is the presence of two high-capacity water-to-air intercoolers which consistently optimize performance under the most demanding driving conditions. An aluminum oil sump exclusive to BMW M with a special finnedsurface guarantees optimum cooling at all times even under an extremely demanding style of driving.

The turbocharged M V8 engine develops its outstanding power with remarkable efficiency. In addition to BMW’s High Precision Direct Injection, both the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M are equipped with a range of technologies from BMW’s EfficientDynamics engineering strategy. These include on-demand control of the electric fuel pump, an on-demand compressor for the air conditioner, and a flow-controlled supply of hydraulic fluid to the Active Roll Stabilization system. By operating these features specifically on demand, energy waste is minimized. The engine fulfills the requirements of the US LEV II standard as well as the EU5 requirements in Europe.

M Sports Automatic and M shift paddles on the steering wheel. Featured for the first time on a BMW M model, the 6-speed M Sports Automatic transmission enhances the high-performance character of the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M through its instantaneous response, direct connection to the engine, and a high degree of shifting comfort. The new M Sports Automatic is commanded by an electronic selector on the center console and offers the driver not only the Drive mode, but also Sport and M Manual modes for absolute control of gear selection.

Aluminum pull-style paddles on the steering wheel exclusive to BMW M allow manual shifting (Right for upshifts, Left for downshifts). Upshifts occur significantly quicker than in the past thanks to new technology that reduces torque in the transmission through momentary deactivation of individual cylinders. This significantly enhances the athletic character of the vehicle. In the M Manual mode, each chosen gear is held up to redline in order to give the driver perfect throttle-steering control of the vehicle under the most demanding driving conditions. The transmission does not upshift or downshift automatically in this mode. A further option in the M Manual mode is to activate the Launch Control feature, which enables the driver to accelerate from a standstill with maximum performance. To activate Launch Control, the driver stops the vehicle, moves the gear selector into the M/S position and activates the Sports Power mode, as well as the M Dynamic mode, or respectively, the DSC-Off mode. Then, with the transmission in stage M1, the driver presses down the brake pedal and moves the accelerator to at least 60% throttle, setting Launch Control to standby. Standby status is confirmed by “starter’s flag” symbol in the instrument cluster. As soon as the driver releases the brake pedal, the vehicle will accelerate with full power in “genuine racing style.” In the process, the M Sports Automatic transmission automatically upshifts at the ideal points, with the fastest possible shifts and optimum wheelspin control. The driver may terminate the Launch Control process at any time by reducing the throttle position.

BMW xDrive and Dynamic Performance Control with a special M setup for optimum dynamics. The outstanding success of BMW’s intelligent xDrive all-wheel-drive technology is based on quick, electronically-controlled power distribution to the front and rear axles. When combined with the superb, near 50-50 static weight distribution of any BMW, xDrive can prevent the tendency for the vehicle to oversteer and understeer as long as possible, reducing the need for Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) to provide electronic assistance.

BMW’s Dynamic Performance Control was presented for the first time in the BMW X6 and is now featured in the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M. Put succinctly, Dynamic Performance Control enhances driving stability in demanding situations and is thus perfectly suited to a powerful M vehicle. Vectoring of torque between the right and left rear wheels (both on throttle and off) significantly improves steering precision and tracking stability at all speeds, with DSC being required to stabilize the vehicle only under extreme lateral acceleration. Ultimately this offers the driver an unparalleled standard of performance, agility, balance, and traction, and re-establishes the benchmarks in drivetrain and suspension technology for all types of performance-oriented vehicles.

In the BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M the potentials of both xDrive and Dynamic Performance Control are maximized by BMW M, with the driver able to activate the M Dynamic Mode (MDM) with the DSC button on the center console or the steering wheel-mounted M Button. This mode raises DSC thresholds of intervention and ensures throttle-steering behavior typical of BMW M by shifting the xDrive bias more to the rear and involving the Dynamic Performance Control in the process. A pictogram in the Control Display in the instrument cluster allows the driver to monitor the activity of Dynamic Performance Control and xDrive through a clear visual depiction, which shows the driver how much power is being distributed to each wheel.

As a result, M Dynamic Mode allows maximum speeds in bends and on winding roads with the DSC system intervening only when the vehicle reaches the absolute physical limits of grip. Even under maximum load in the apex of a bend, the vehicle follows steering inputs with tremendous precision, giving the driver very high speeds when exiting a turn in the interest of optimum performance. Last but not least, DSC may be completely deactivated by experienced drivers at the touch of a button.

Beyond the stabilizing effects of Dynamic Stability Control provided by individual brake activation and engine power reduction under extreme conditions, DSC in the BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M includes a wide range of additional features tuned to BMW M standards to promote safe and exciting driving. These include ABS anti-lock brakes, Trailer Stability Control, Hill Descent Control, Dynamic Brake Control which maximizes brake force when required, Cornering Brake Control for advanced trail-braking, Brake Fade Compensation for extreme driving conditions, automatic Brake Drying when the windshield wipers are activated, Start-Off Assistant for driving on steep hills, and a braking function for use by the standard cruise control.

Both vehicles come with an electrohydraulic parking brake which features the Autohold (Auto H) function. Auto H is a convenience feature that holds the vehicle in position as soon as it comes to a stop at an intersection or in stop-and-go traffic, without requiring the driver to hold constant pressure on the brake pedal. As soon as the driver touches the accelerator again, the brake is instantly released.

M Suspension with standard Adaptive Drive.
The suspension developed specifically for the BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M with its double-wishbone front control arms and integral four-link rear axle offers M- specific geometry and damping. This is accomplished through optimized control arm and A-arm bushings at the front, as well as stiffer axle support mounts at the rear.

As part of the advanced Integrated Chassis Management system which networks all drivetrain and suspension components, both models feature standard self-leveling rear air suspension and Adaptive Drive with Electronic Damping Control (EDC) and Active Roll Stabilization (ARS). The special version of Adaptive Drive tailored to the requirements of BMW M lowers the entire vehicle by 10 millimeters or 0.4″ versus the standard BMW X5 and BMW X6.
To quickly and reliably process data, Adaptive Drive uses the high-speed FlexRay data transmission protocol. FlexRay enables Adaptive Drive to transfer data through the vehicle’s on-board network at an extremely fast rate. This enables lightning-quick changes to settings for individual shock absorbers, swaybars, and other components as conditions and driving demands warrant. For example, if the front wheel encounters a bump, the system responds quickly enough before the rear wheel reaches the same bump. On the X5, X6, and 7 Series, BMW is the first carmaker in the world to use FlexRay as a regular technology.

The special Servotronic steering developed for the BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M provides variable steering assistance geared to the road speed of the vehicle. This allows the driver to negotiate parking maneuvers with lower effort while preserving exact feedback and the highest standard of steering precision at higher speeds.

The degree of power steering assistance is defined by two control maps. Apart from the standard configuration, the driver is able, through the Adaptive Drive button or the M Drive button on the steering wheel, to call up the Sport Mode. This activates a sports driving control map with higher control forces for particularly dynamic driving conditions.

When changing from Normal to Sport Mode, the system alters not only the Servotronic steering control map, but also the damper setting, with the shock absorbers of the vehicle being significantly stiffened in Sport Mode. In conjunction with Active Roll Stabilization, this allows an exceptionally high standard of linear lateral forces in dynamic bends and on fast, winding roads, and keeps body roll to a minimum.

M Brakes and tires to match the M Power.
Outstanding stopping power with fade reduced to a minimum is guaranteed by the high-performance M brake system, which combines giant four-piston fixed calipers at the front with floating calipers at the rear, combined in each case with large, internally-vented lightweight brake discs. The brake rotors themselves measure 15.6” in diameter at front and 15.2” at rear. They feature a riveted connection to join the aluminum rotor hats with the cast-iron rotor discs.

The BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M are the only vehicles of their type equipped with staggered-size tires front and rear, running on 20-inch light-alloy wheels. The choice of runflat tires in sizes 275/40 R 20 at the front and 315/35 R 20 at the rear is a result of the special setup of both models, with the emphasis on rear-wheel power and dynamic handling balance. This promotes exceptionally good transmission of power to the rear axle and precise, razor-sharp steering behavior of both models. Transitional stability is also world-class.

Maximum performance at the touch of a button: M Drive button on the steering wheel. In addition to the DSC mode (On, MDM, or Off) and the specific setup of the shock absorbers and Servotronic steering, the driver may also configure the setup of the drivetrain on the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M. Activating the Power mode influences both engine and transmission behavior, and the driver can choose from the Sport and Efficiency driving programs. The Sport program allows precise control of engine power under the most dynamic driving conditions, and ensures a linear build-up of the power delivery. The Efficiency program, in turn, upshifts at earlier points not only to significantly reduce fuel consumption under normal driving conditions, but also to allow a relaxed style of driving by taking advantage of the new M engine’s prodigious torque and power available from low engine speeds. The result, therefore, is an ideal combination of flexibility for daily use and all-out performance when desired.

When customizing the response of the steering wheel-mounted M Drive button, the driver uses the M Drive menu to preselect the desired Power Mode and the setup of DSC and EDC, making a personalized combination of settings that can be activated on-demand. The driver’s favorite setup settings are saved and subsequently activated at any time simply by pressing the M Drive button on the steering wheel. Pressing the M Drive button again returns the vehicle to its previous configuration.

M-specific cockpit and sophisticated driver assistance systems for even greater abi l ity at the wheel. The BMW M philosophy naturally continues into the design and configuration of the driver’s “office.” Both of these all-wheel-drive high-performance sports vehicles come with a special M cockpit with the instrument cluster featuring a variable redline, specific vehicle function displays, and white display backlighting. Both the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M feature power, heated front M sport seats, an M sport leather steering wheel, M door sills, and driver’s footrest.

Infotainment functions, standard on-board Navigation with Real-Time Traffic data and communication functions are all controlled by BMW’s 4th-generation iDrive. The standard HiFi audio system features 12 loudspeakers and a 230 watt amplifier. In addition, both the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M may be equipped with a Head-Up Display programmed specifically by BMW M. This option enables the driver to customize the type and scope of data projected onto the windshield through settings available in the M Drive menu.

Innovative driver assistance systems are fitted as well, with both models featuring standard Dynamic Cruise Control, Rain Sensor, Auto-Dimming Mirrors, Park Distance Control, and BMW’s Xenon Adaptive Headlights. The list of optional features includes a Driver Assistance Package which includes High-Beam Assistant, Head-Up Display, and Rear View Camera with the spectacular new Top View feature. Top View provides the driver with an “birds-eye view” of the vehicle on the iDrive control screen, using input from a camera on each side of the vehicle and the traditional rear-view camera. Top View provides the driver with additional confidence for tight parking scenarios.

Stable bodyshel l and advanced safety equipment.
The BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M come with extremely stiff bodyshells. To ensure maximum solidity, BMW’s body engineers focused on the use of intelligent lightweight materials technology. Both the choice of materials and the arrangement and geometry of the support bars, braces, and mounts on both models are based on an overall concept that combines maximum crash safety with supreme agility - which helps avoid crashes in the first place. At BMW, the ability to avoid a crash is the best safety feature of all.

Forces acting on the unibody in the event of a crash are diverted through the engine carriers and the chassis along several load paths in order to avoid extreme loads acting on individual structures and help keep impact energy away from the stable passenger cell.
Both the BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M come with frontal and hip/thorax airbags, as well as curtain head airbags to protect the occupants both front and rear from injury. Three-point inertia-reel seatbelts are at all seating positions with force limiters and, on the front seats, an additional seatbelt pretensioning function. To help protect occupants from cervical spine injury in the event of a rear impact, the front seats feature crash-activated active head restraints. ISOFIX child seat anchors are standard on the rear seats.

All restraint systems are controlled by the vehicles’ central safety electronics, which take the type and severity of a collision into account so that the most effective safety elements are activated in any given crash. The frontal airbags feature two-stage activation, to allow deployment in varying intensity as a function of crash severity. Networked with Dynamic Stability Control, the standard rollover sensors activate both the curtain airbags and the seatbelt pretensioners, to ensure occupants are best positioned for and protected from the unlikely event of a vehicle rollover.

[Ruergard]

Not sure about the looks... Though I do believe these things will be quick.

[QuattroFun]

Well, looks are rather awful really. However, the technology is on paper at least very solid and makes the RS6 appear outdated already...

[Freddesix]

However, the technology is on paper at least very solid and makes the RS6 appear outdated already...

:jlol:

Looking forward to the first real test vs. Cayenne Turbo S etc. It would be nice if the Q7 V12 could be included aswell, even though it's already prooved it is quite slow. Pricetag claims else though.

[RXBG]

holy sh*t. that sounds like an awesome engine, the kind audi should have made. 500 of torque. holy moly. wonder what the fuel consumption will be.

the new M5 is going to kill the RS6 unless you chip it. then again the M5 will be chippable too.

audi had better have something up its sleeve.

[audi_ch]

In fact this engine will come to the new m5 and m6.

Means 550 hp for 1850kg (M5) 3,3kg/hp, and 550 hp for 1750kg (M6) 3,1kg/hp

this combined with double cloutch will make them pretty quick.

But M philosphie was na high reving engine, and many bmw m supporters will be disapointed about this fact...

It is for me like audi rs4b7, as i was used to the rs4b5 turbo and suddenly no turbos.

We will see what the outcome will be

[KresoF1]

holy sh*t. that sounds like an awesome engine, the kind audi should have made. 500 of torque. holy moly. wonder what the fuel consumption will be.

the new M5 is going to kill the RS6 unless you chip it. then again the M5 will be chippable too.

audi had better have something up its sleeve.

That BMW M engine is as pushed to the limit as possible... 1.5 bar pressure! Just look just for comparison at RS6 and 997 GT2 biturbo engines for comparison...

[Benman]

Am I the only one who thinks this car/suv is not bad looking? :vhmmm:

Ben:addict:

[hooter76]

Videos:

http://germancarscene.com/2009/04/06/videos-bmw-x5-m-and-x6-m/

[Leadfoot]

That BMW M engine is as pushed to the limit as possible... 1.5 bar pressure! Just look just for comparison at RS6 and 997 GT2 biturbo engines for comparison...

I must admit I read the 1.5 Bar and thought the very same thing, there is a lot more scope available here.


In fact this engine will come to the new m5 and m6.

Means 550 hp for 1850kg (M5) 3,3kg/hp, and 550 hp for 1750kg (M6) 3,1kg/hp

this combined with double cloutch will make them pretty quick.

But M philosphie was na high reving engine, and many bmw m supporters will be disapointed about this fact...

It is for me like audi rs4b7, as i was used to the rs4b5 turbo and suddenly no turbos.

We will see what the outcome will be

This weight/power ratio will make both the M5 & M6 seriously quick and seriously lairy motor cars. Exciting and scary rolled in to one, not exactly my cup of tea.

When you have awd the kick you get from a turbo isn't as big of an issue with balance and traction, but when you have only rwd and over 500 of both torque and horsepower to contain then I do see what all those M supporters are up in arms about. It will be interesting to watch the first few road tests to see how many end up in the ditch. :hihi:

[Leadfoot]

Am I the only one who thinks this car/suv is not bad looking? :vhmmm:

Ben:addict:

Agreed, not bad looking but then when the only competiton is the Cayenne Turbo S it isn't that hard to beat it in the looks department.

Now beating it in the handling department is another story. ;)

[artur777]

I must admit I read the 1.5 Bar and thought the very same thing, there is a lot more scope available here.



This weight/power ratio will make both the M5 & M6 seriously quick and seriously lairy motor cars. Exciting and scary rolled in to one, not exactly my cup of tea.

When you have awd the kick you get from a turbo isn't as big of an issue with balance and traction, but when you have only rwd and over 500 of both torque and horsepower to contain then I do see what all those M supporters are up in arms about. It will be interesting to watch the first few road tests to see how many end up in the ditch. :hihi:

My friend, don't forget about M-Differential.
It will help to keep traction.
DCT also will be tuned to evade sharp torque jumps

[Leadfoot]

My friend, don't forget about M-Differential.
It will help to keep traction.
DCT also will be tuned to evade sharp torque jumps

I haven't enough experience with the M-Diff to know whether it has magical qualities but if it's similar to a normal LSD then I doubt it will overcome more than 500ft/lbs of torque being dumped at little more than 1500rpm though I doubt it will come anywhere close to matching what you get from Quattro in similar conditions.

Again I doubt DCT will overcome the same problem but will how judgement until we see the finish product, though from what I have read the surge that is present in manual mode setting 5 on the M3 overcomes the traction with over 420hp and 300ft/lbs at a lot higher revs.

[KresoF1]

I haven't enough experience with the M-Diff to know whether it has magical qualities but if it's similar to a normal LSD then I doubt it will overcome more than 500ft/lbs of torque being dumped at little more than 1500rpm though I doubt it will come anywhere close to matching what you get from Quattro in similar conditions.

Again I doubt DCT will overcome the same problem but will how judgement until we see the finish product, though from what I have read the surge that is present in manual mode setting 5 on the M3 overcomes the traction with over 420hp and 300ft/lbs at a lot higher revs.

I agree with you.

BTW, what DCT? The one in current M3 can handle up to 600Nm. Model for 750Nm is 45kg heavier...

And finally-M Gmbh is cutting cost as much as possible since new X5/6 M engine is nothing more then upgrated engine from 750i...

[Ruergard]

And finally-M Gmbh is cutting cost as much as possible since new X5/6 M engine is nothing more then upgrated engine from 750i...

Interesting, anymore facts on the subject of cutting costs?

[KresoF1]

Interesting, anymore facts on the subject of cutting costs?

That engine is not developed from gound-up. It is further development of 4.4L biturbo in 750i.

[Leadfoot]

This engine is the X5M and X6M, what is the real differences between them and the 50i ?

It looks to me that most of the power is coming from the increased boost.

[artur777]

This engine is the X5M and X6M, what is the real differences between them and the 50i ?

It looks to me that most of the power is coming from the increased boost.

intake modified
intercoolers and etc

[Rutkowsky]

Leadie, i'm still alive and well with my 500 RWD beastie... Seriously though - develop those driving skills and you're fine. Once you do some proper advanced driver training and enough of track days, there's not much to worry about.

I had near ditch misses with quattro too and i put it lack of experience now, that's all.

[Kliko]

Ok, it will be fast. The new M5 will be faster than the RS6, but I don't care because

The RS6 still sounds 10 times better, a biturbo V10 sounds great!!!

[audi_ch]

strange answer

i guess you heard already the new m5/m6

[Leadfoot]

Leadie, i'm still alive and well with my 500 RWD beastie... Seriously though - develop those driving skills and you're fine. Once you do some proper advanced driver training and enough of track days, there's not much to worry about.

I had near ditch misses with quattro too and i put it lack of experience now, that's all.

Great to hear that you are still in the land of the living. :thumb:

I think you are mistaking my comments for the M5/6 with this engine will be dangerous because that was not what I meant. Sure you can tip toe with the throttle and keep it as docile as you want but to get to use all of the available hp and torque then the M-Diff and possibly DCT won't be enough to overcome the obvious traction issues both will have, even the current M5/6 with a lot less low end torque can have traction issues with nowhere near full throttle applications.

The obvious difference between Quattro and RWD+M-Diff is that on a straight road the Quattro with this amount of power will be able to use all of it without the possibility of the tail snapping sideways which is ever present with the other and only your right foot will be in control if you remove all of the safety nets.

The M5/6 basic design is wrong in my opinion, there needs to be more weight over the rear axle to contain this amount of power/torque, a 50/50 balance doesn't work and only BMW insist that they method is correct, all other supercar companies producing cars with this amount all look for a more rear bias split in axle weight.

So while the AWD is the best solution for this amount of power you can control it better with more weight is at the rear, or better still why not combination both as is the case with the Audi R8. :D

[Kliko]

strange answer

i guess you heard already the new m5/m6

No you guys are saying here that this motor will also be in de new M5/M6 and I watched and listened the fragments of the X6M and X5M so...

Ok, they can change the sound a little bit in the new M5 and M6 and have different exhaust systems but it it won't differ dramatically from the sound of the X6M and X5M I think. Maybe it will sound louder etc etc...but I don't expect big differences...

[Rutkowsky]

strange answer

i guess you heard already the new m5/m6


lol my thoughts exactly!! Hear it in person, then comment.

[Rutkowsky]

Great to hear that you are still in the land of the living. :thumb:

I think you are mistaking my comments for the M5/6 with this engine will be dangerous because that was not what I meant. Sure you can tip toe with the throttle and keep it as docile as you want but to get to use all of the available hp and torque then the M-Diff and possibly DCT won't be enough to overcome the obvious traction issues both will have, even the current M5/6 with a lot less low end torque can have traction issues with nowhere near full throttle applications.

The obvious difference between Quattro and RWD+M-Diff is that on a straight road the Quattro with this amount of power will be able to use all of it without the possibility of the tail snapping sideways which is ever present with the other and only your right foot will be in control if you remove all of the safety nets.

The M5/6 basic design is wrong in my opinion, there needs to be more weight over the rear axle to contain this amount of power/torque, a 50/50 balance doesn't work and only BMW insist that they method is correct, all other supercar companies producing cars with this amount all look for a more rear bias split in axle weight.

So while the AWD is the best solution for this amount of power you can control it better with more weight is at the rear, or better still why not combination both as is the case with the Audi R8. :D

Thank you Leadie! :thumb:

50 - 50 has its own advantages, like better braking (optimum front to rear brake bias) and high speed sweeping bends balance. I'm no expert but that's what i was told by experts.

Of course a heavier rear gives more traction from stop but once rolling, you're ok... trust me i'd know - i drive / drove M6 and M6 has been made with a CSL in mind. Light in the back end, CF roof and a 60mm lower centre of gravity compared to e60 M5. :0:

Going back to DR tests... the R8 achieved 5.3 to 62 mph - a bit slow and i know it can do way better but on that occasion it did not for some reasons...

[Qisha]

Dear Leadfoot,

one difference is the Cylinder-bank Comprehensive Manifold (CCM). It is a complex intake and exhaust management system. It is tend to make sure that reused exhaust gases are passed through the Garett turbo system and back into the manifold with every cylinder rotation (rather than in the waves of power found in conventional turbos). The result is a constant stream of boost and a better internal cooling (respectively needed in addition to several larger intercoolers @ increased boost of 21 PSI/1.5 Bar).

Good engineering and the sound is definately M-like (as much as you can get out of a turboed engine setup)...

Qisha

[Rutkowsky]

An excellent answer Qisha!! Thank you.

[Leadfoot]

Dear Leadfoot,

one difference is the Cylinder-bank Comprehensive Manifold (CCM). It is a complex intake and exhaust management system. It is tend to make sure that reused exhaust gases are passed through the Garett turbo system and back into the manifold with every cylinder rotation (rather than in the waves of power found in conventional turbos). The result is a constant stream of boost and a better internal cooling (respectively needed in addition to several larger intercoolers @ increased boost of 21 PSI/1.5 Bar).

Good engineering and the sound is definately M-like (as much as you can get out of a turboed engine setup)...

Qisha

No one is denying BMW's engineering skill, they are after all one of the best engine manufacturers in the world which has been proved time and again. My question is about the amount of boost, 21PSI is a lot for what is a stock engine which has to meet a 3 yrs manufacturer's reliability guarantees. In my mind there isn't a lot of scope for engine tuners to increase this without internal work which is very expensive for the customer.

Your knowledge is much greater than mine and you clearly have respect for what has been achieved here, but in your opinion is their approach better than what Audi has done with the RS6?

On the subject of the X5M & X6M, why are Audi not carrying through the early indications that they too would be developing and marketing their own RS versions of SUVs. The v12TDi Q7 is a brilliant PM exercise but it was never going to be a sporty version of the Q7, it's engine weight ruled out that possibility.

Sorry for putting you on the point. :D

[Kliko]

lol my thoughts exactly!! Hear it in person, then comment.


That is my expectation. I can give my opinion about it....you can check above what I mean with it...

[Rutkowsky]

No one is denying BMW's engineering skill, they are after all one of the best engine manufacturers in the world which has been proved time and again. My question is about the amount of boost, 21PSI is a lot for what is a stock engine which has to meet a 3 yrs manufacturer's reliability guarantees. In my mind there isn't a lot of scope for engine tuners to increase this without internal work which is very expensive for the customer.

Your knowledge is much greater than mine and you clearly have respect for what has been achieved here, but in your opinion is their approach better than what Audi has done with the RS6?

On the subject of the X5M & X6M, why are Audi not carrying through the early indications that they too would be developing and marketing their own RS versions of SUVs. The v12TDi Q7 is a brilliant PM exercise but it was never going to be a sporty version of the Q7, it's engine weight ruled out that possibility.

Sorry for putting you on the point. :D

Imagine Audi and BMW becoming one! :cheers: :bigeyes:

[artur777]

Dear Leadfoot,

one difference is the Cylinder-bank Comprehensive Manifold (CCM). It is a complex intake and exhaust management system. It is tend to make sure that reused exhaust gases are passed through the Garett turbo system and back into the manifold with every cylinder rotation (rather than in the waves of power found in conventional turbos). The result is a constant stream of boost and a better internal cooling (respectively needed in addition to several larger intercoolers @ increased boost of 21 PSI/1.5 Bar).

Good engineering and the sound is definately M-like (as much as you can get out of a turboed engine setup)...

Qisha

Qisha, will we see something new from Audi as a reply to BMW's new engine?:-)

[RXBG]

No one is denying BMW's engineering skill, they are after all one of the best engine manufacturers in the world which has been proved time and again. My question is about the amount of boost, 21PSI is a lot for what is a stock engine which has to meet a 3 yrs manufacturer's reliability guarantees. In my mind there isn't a lot of scope for engine tuners to increase this without internal work which is very expensive for the customer.

Your knowledge is much greater than mine and you clearly have respect for what has been achieved here, but in your opinion is their approach better than what Audi has done with the RS6?

On the subject of the X5M & X6M, why are Audi not carrying through the early indications that they too would be developing and marketing their own RS versions of SUVs. The v12TDi Q7 is a brilliant PM exercise but it was never going to be a sporty version of the Q7, it's engine weight ruled out that possibility.

Sorry for putting you on the point. :D

you have to remember that the cars you see coming out now were conceptualized and developed 3 years ago or so. as such, these companies decide to either stall or move them forward- audi was probably not so far along with any Q7 performance models and so has pulled back- and with good reason.

bmw has moved forward with these even though X6 sales are shitty.

lexus and honda have "cancelled" the LF-A and NSX. but i call BS on that and rather a "hold" as these cars are almost ready and by delaying their intro the companies can keep working on them.

as an aside, i honestly think that the SUV market is fried forever. they'll still exist, but there will be fewer. the sports car market will always exist in proportionate volumes.

[Qisha]

Qisha, will we see something new from Audi as a reply to BMW's new engine?:-)

Dear artur777,

you can expect that Audi is watching the competition closely. As you might have noticed, BMW has also a new 6.0 V12 Twin Turbo Engine, 400 kW (544 HP) and 750 Nm (553 lb-ft) of torque-, ready to be placed in the new 7 Series.

Answer: yes- in several ways...

Qisha

[artur777]

Dear artur777,

you can expect that Audi is watching the competition closely. As you might have noticed, BMW has also a new 6.0 V12 Twin Turbo Engine, 400 kW (544 HP) and 750 Nm (553 lb-ft) of torque-, ready to be placed in the new 7 Series.

Answer: yes- in several ways...

Qisha

I see. We will be waiting for an adequate reply from Audi.

4.0TFSI - you mean this one?

[RXBG]

my little weenie told me audi has a larger V8 TT on the way (4.5-5.0 liters)

[Ruergard]

Audi won't be sitting on it's ass doing nothing with BMW up this close. Not after the competition they've put up the last years. I'm expecting some interesting stuff!

[Leadfoot]

my little weenie told me audi has a larger V8 TT on the way (4.5-5.0 liters)

I would never own up to mine being little. :hihi: Even if it was the truth. :blush:

I imagine we will see lots of new ideas surfacing, what with the enviorment issues coming to the head and with Porsche now using Audi engines in the Cayenne and possibly the Pamanera we will see more co-development in the future, though I not reckon you will see Audi developing any Boxer engines, best leave that to Porsche.