TT RS technical discussion thread [Archive] - RS6.com

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KresoF1

March 4th, 2009, 08:19

artur777

March 4th, 2009, 10:29

I think it will be a lot of help to members who are thinking about buying it.

OK, let's start...

Issue No.1 Haldex AWD

-according to my NSU contact and info that Leadie got it is basically the same one is in TTS-modified to cope with more torque and power. Is it a good or bad thing since NO XWD Haldex? Good thing I think since system is reliable and is providing all traction that you need.

Agreed. No way it is a problem

Issue No.2 manual only

-Huh! Here you wont find an easy answer. TT RS probably wont get updated S Tronic. I know that for some of you manual only is deal braker. I am fine with manual only

Not agreed. It is a big problem. Even 997.2 Turbo wil get PDK...
TT-RS is obsolete in this way. In current economic conditions one would like to get full package in one car. Using it as a DD seems to be annoying due to traffic in the cities.

Issue No.3 S button

-here I think quattro Gmbh screw up big time. Why? S button is fine if you order TT RS with normal suspension and without sport exhaust, but if you order both they will be ccontrolled with S button. So, you can not combined normal setting on Magnetic Ride with S button on! On R8 only ONE throttle setting is far better solution IMHO(and GT3 and GT2 Porsche are also offering only ONE throttle setting). Sport exhaust is also controlled via S button. NO separate control like on Porsche models.

Agree. Not a problem.

Issue No.4 Rear Spoiler

-if you order 280km/h option(99% of people will do that) then you must stay with fixed spoiler. TT RS is aerodynamically not nealry as efficient in downforce as R8 for example. It really needs help from big rear spoiler in speeds higher then 250km/h. For me this is not a deal braker.

Agreed. Not a problem. Spoiler is brutal and nice

Issue No. 5 Engine reliability

-it is new engine. Remember first problems with RS4 V8? Let's hope that TT RS engine is reliable.

Agreed. Could be a deal braker for first MY if there are a lot of reliability issues.

Conclusion: everuthing is ok, excluding lack of S-Tronic. It will downside its sales 4-5 times.

tvrfan

March 4th, 2009, 10:38

no DSG is good for tuners :D

AndyBG

March 4th, 2009, 10:48

It is technical ''excursion'' for Audi to make this kind of high performance car in ''small package''... I like the idea, and I like the engine!

Lack of auto' gearbox (S-tronic) will affect its sales seriously. Potential customers for it are 80% ''only auto' 'box'' people. For me, it wouldn't be problem, I like manual and not having auto' ' box on offer would just make it easyer... When you have auto' 'box as option, you allways think about re-sale, and you compromise with true driving pleasure.

When it comes to the rear spoiler I don't have nothing against it... Maybe Audi could've come up with some electro' controlled one, so it could be more discreet when you drive around, but that isn't biggest problem.

I personnaly like the technic and performance of this car, but I'm not the biggest fan of its looks for now.

Bogdan

March 4th, 2009, 10:59

The problem with the spoiler: it is really ugly (boy racer) in my oppinion. What I would do if I were considering this car (which I'm not ) is buy it with the 250 km/h limiter, hidraulic spoiler and, I would go to MTM for example and do some magic to the ECU, including delimiter. Is not like I go 280 km/h every day, but I like to be able to if needed. About reliability, I think there would be some problems, there always are with new high performance engines, hope they will be minor ones.
Those aside, the car is a true RS from Quattro, very nice pocket rocket with GREAT tuning potential. Just think about EURO 5 emissions with 4 catalists, think about removing them and placing just 2 100 cats....plus the ECU mods, raising the boost (which is only max 1.2 in overboost - a lot room to improve) and there you'll have the quickist Audi ever.

The RS6

March 4th, 2009, 11:03

Just what I thought Bogdan, but look at it this way - maybe the car really needs it and you could be in serious trouble going like 290 with it...

I don't think Audi put it there just because they think it's cool...

KresoF1

March 4th, 2009, 11:19

Hmm...

Fixed spolier is there for a very good reason Gents! Imagine if you do what Bogdan suggested and order a TT RS with 250km/h limiter and normal electric spoiler. Add MTM ECU and you will get 280km/h. And how about scenario like this: you drive your MTM 280km/h car in Germany on the autobahn at 275km/h and suddenly you need to brake hard and rear end looses since there is no enough downforce? You could end in tragic outcome...
If you look very closely to TTS aerodynamic meaurments by sport auto it is clear that electric rear spoiler is not doing anything since there is UPLIFT of 42kg at 200km/h at rear end. Front axle is producing 17kg of UPLIFT. TTS is not producing any downforce what so ever.
Think about it very hard. Fixed spoiler is here to come down and stabile rear end, to reduce UPLIFT effect as much as possible.

R8 is for example producing very small 7kg uplift on rear end, but it is producing downforce on front end of 1kg at 200km/h. 997 Turbo is very similar to R8 is aerodynamic measurements. 997 GT2 is for example producing downforce for both rear and front end-this car is 329km/h fast.

Rear fixed spoiler is vital for above 250k/h stability.

1.2bar turbo... Another remark that I think needs to be discussed little bit more.

Kompression is with 10,0:1 at upper limit for DFI turbo engine. There is maybe a further playground, but very small one. According to my NSU contact engine can be pushed to 370ps/470Nm safely. BUT, it is very upper limit!

Leadfoot

March 4th, 2009, 11:33

I think it will be a lot of help to members who are thinking about buying it.

OK, let's start...

Issue No.1 Haldex AWD

-according to my NSU contact and info that Leadie got it is basically the same one is in TTS-modified to cope with more torque and power. Is it a good or bad thing since NO XWD Haldex? Good thing I think since system is reliable and is providing all traction that you need.

I am still not so sure that the system has only been beefied up to cope with the extra torque, fact is that these system have been running fine in Bi-turboed VR6 Golfs for years now so the system is already able to cope with a lot of power. Plus if they did decide to work on it would they not possibly tweak it from ultra safe understeer to a more neutral handling balance better suit to track and spirited driving.

I know I was told it's been 'modified' but until I drive it I will always have this idea that the 'modification' was more than just to cope with the extra grunt.

Issue No.2 manual only

-Huh! Here you wont find an easy answer. TT RS probably wont get updated S Tronic. I know that for some of you manual only is deal braker. I am fine with manual only.

I will be a deal breaker for some but all I will say is wait and drive it first before ruling it out completely.

Issue No.3 S button

-here I think quattro Gmbh screw up big time. Why? S button is fine if you order TT RS with normal suspension and without sport exhaust, but if you order both they will be ccontrolled with S button. So, you can not combined normal setting on Magnetic Ride with S button on! On R8 only ONE throttle setting is far better solution IMHO(and GT3 and GT2 Porsche are also offering only ONE throttle setting). Sport exhaust is also controlled via S button. NO separate control like on Porsche models.

It's the same concerns I have with the new GTI Mk6, sport button affects everything. Audi Select is the way to go but probably the electronics in the TT does suit it's application.

Issue No.4 Rear Spoiler

-if you order 280km/h option(99% of people will do that) then you must stay with fixed spoiler. TT RS is aerodynamically not nealry as efficient in downforce as R8 for example. It really needs help from big rear spoiler in speeds higher then 250km/h. For me this is not a deal braker.

This is only an issue with people unresticted speed limits. The rest of us don't need to pick this option unless this spoiler appeals to them.

Personally from just seeing the photos and not seeing it in the fresh I don't think it suits the rest of the car.

Issue No. 5 Engine reliability

-it is new engine. Remember first problems with RS4 V8? Let's hope that TT RS engine is reliable.

If this was BMW we were discussing then I would be more concerned about reliability, they have had a history of problems with M engines. Maybe pushing the envelope too far or what but I don't think you can point the same finger at Audi on this.

Bogdan

March 4th, 2009, 11:44

I know its a good reason for that ugly spoiler to be there above 250 km/h, I was just stating another option (not the best one of course) to have a delimited TTRS without the compromise of that spoiler. But, it could get dangerous indeed.
As for that 1.2 boost, that is something that remains to be seen. I really don't have any infos about how much higher can you get with the boost but 370 hp...come on, isn't that a little too little? Just think that on a turbo car, with EURO 5, removing those cats will get you something between 20 and 30 hp+ without ECU mod. Or at least this was the case until now, if Audi already pushed that engine to the upper limit than, what can I say, it won't be that tuner friendly afterall..

KresoF1

March 4th, 2009, 11:59

Removing the cats... And people here praised TT RS EU5 emissions...

Yes, you can remove the cats but, you will need different exhaust(think about backpressure little bit). Different ECU of course. And NO warrantly what so ever(excpet from small tuner)...

370ps/480Nm is safety margin with stock cats and exhaust.

Qisha

March 4th, 2009, 13:12

The drivetrain and the discussed Sport Button controled Valve:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8760/ttrsdrivetrain.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ttrsdrivetrain.jpg)
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/ttrsdrivetrain.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img14/ttrsdrivetrain.jpg/1/)

QuattroFun

March 4th, 2009, 18:34

So if I would like to have an agile, light, emotional and sporty TT RS for real world road use nowhere close to the autobahn or track, I should take the std SS, 18", the optional sports exhaust, the optional bucket seats and optional folding rear spoiler then. Hmm. Waiting for the full German price list and first mag tests!

The Pretender

March 4th, 2009, 19:05

I would choose the retractable rearspoiler with the Forged 20" wheels and bucket seats.
Car, mirrors and wheels in briliant black.
My personal "Black TThunder"

Jarod.

SigmaS6

March 4th, 2009, 20:22

The drivetrain and the discussed Sport Button controled Valve
Might be a stupid question, but how exactly does the Abgasklappe work and what good things result from having one?

SigmaS6

March 4th, 2009, 20:25

Is the suspension on the TT-RS the same as on the TTS if we compare the two non-MR versions?

Why should I prefer the non-MR version and how can it possibly be faster if the MR is trying it's best to adapt to the current ground while the sports suspension has a one-setting-fits-all attitude?

trick

March 4th, 2009, 20:45

Top post Quisha!

Might be a stupid question, but how exactly does the Abgasklappe work and what good things result from having one?

I think it's a butterfly valve that opens up the 2nd exhaust, allowing higher flow of gas and more noise. It probably works in conjuction with an engine map tweak which gives the full power of the car.

I would LOVE to see the performance chart of the engine in normal mode. I bet it is far less agressive than the one we've seen, and probably not capable of the 0-62 times Audi are quoting. How else would this car get 30mpg urban? ;)

You probably wouldn't want to drive around all day in Sport Mode.

Why should I prefer the non-MR version and how can it possibly be faster if the MR is trying it's best to adapt to the current ground while the sports suspension has a one-setting-fits-all attitude?

If what KresoF1's saying about real world MR vs non-MR track times is true, it could be that the advantage of MR is not worth the weight penalty?

The Pretender

March 4th, 2009, 21:18

Top post Quisha!]If what KresoF1's saying about real world MR vs non-MR track times is true, it could be that the advantage of MR is not worth the weight penalty?
A 3 way adjustable coilover set will probably work as well.

Jarod.

Bogdan

March 5th, 2009, 07:21

When I said removing the cats, I wasn't considering doing it yourself in your garage.
More like a combination of turbo back Milltek + MTM (MRC) soft. I think that will do the job nicely, and also I think more than 50% of the owners will go that route, with probably different tuners of course

Qisha

March 5th, 2009, 07:24

Dear SigmaS6,

the fluegas damper is controlled by a vacuum valve. It opens at a specific RPM/Gear combo and can also be altered by using the Sport button.

Qisha

For clarification:

Vacuum Valve
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3329226460_b9ef310379.jpg?v=0

Exhaust Tip
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3594/3328377627_fc4d793192.jpg?v=0

Bogdan

March 5th, 2009, 07:52

From what I can see, the exhaust tip is separated from the exhaust itself, R8 and Lexus IS-F style. Sorry, but that just doesn't work for me.

Leadfoot

March 5th, 2009, 12:32

From what I can see, the exhaust tip is separated from the exhaust itself, R8 and Lexus IS-F style. Sorry, but that just doesn't work for me.

Please tell me how else you could place the exhaust tips inside the bumper molding and keep the gap between exhaust and bump small. :confused:

There is too much movement in a normal exhaust to not having it hit the bumper and cause a hell of a noise inside the car.

Bogdan

March 5th, 2009, 13:13

I am not in building cars so I don't know, but I don't like it like this. And I'll tell you why: you have one oval fixed tips, then inside that another oval tip and inside that a round tube. Doesn't that look a little too "busy"?
And another fact which just came into my mind, and if its true, that will be even worse than the uglyness of the spoiler or tips: if I am correct you only have a vacuum valve into the left exhaust pipe. So, when you are not in S mode, driving arround at 2000-2500 rpm in cold time, you will only smoke from the right exhaust pipe. Now, that in my book is really not right.

SigmaS6

March 5th, 2009, 20:18

when you are not in S mode, driving arround at 2000-2500 rpm in cold time, you will only smoke from the right exhaust pipe.
I must admit that prior to this statement I never thought about how symmetric my emissions would look during winter time to other motorcyclists :D

Thinking about it, I still find the missing DSG to be more of a show stopper than that.

Currently I think I'll continue to take a close look on what the rumor mill will say about an upcoming DSG version for the RS instead of buying it now. I read some statements that seem to indicate it will never come, but so far I haven't read a killer argument that would redeem my doubts on this.

I simply don't think it can be predicted yet and seeing how much it is requested in this and other forums I'd assume that they are already working on it by now. At least I didn't see any strong signs of denial from Audi/Quattro or those close to it if we extend the planning horizon to more than a few months into the future.

SigmaS6

March 5th, 2009, 20:19

the fluegas damper is controlled by a vacuum valve. It opens at a specific RPM/Gear combo and can also be altered by using the Sport button.
But what is the advantage of having it, compared to leaving both paths open all the time, regardless of the rpms?

Bogdan

March 6th, 2009, 11:37

You are right, when you buy a 70 000 euro cars (extras included) you don't have to pay attention to "minor" details...

SigmaS6

March 28th, 2009, 00:20

If you look very closely to TTS aerodynamic meaurments by sport auto it is clear that electric rear spoiler is not doing anything since there is UPLIFT of 42kg at 200km/h at rear end. Front axle is producing 17kg of UPLIFT. TTS is not producing any downforce what so ever.
Think about it very hard. Fixed spoiler is here to come down and stabile rear end, to reduce UPLIFT effect as much as possible.
Is there any info as to how much downforce the fixed spoiler will offer?

Also I'm wondering as I don't see any remarks about the fixed version being mandatory in the option list if you order the vmax-package?