Oil Analysis Program

[GEN XER]

I have posted a definition sheet of what an oil analysis breakdown consists of and what each material in your engine/ oil comes from. Next I have the sample of the Virgin sample of the Castrol TXT 505.01 right from the bottle, never having been in an engine. This will tell us what the oil is made of and more importantly how much anti-wear agents are in the oil and what the TBN number is from the start. Last I have the Sample results for my oil with 9500 miles on it, Science is great and now we can see how this oil performs in the engine and more importantly does it protect out to 10K miles.

Definitions of whats in your oil and where it comes from.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/GENXER1971/BlackstoneImage.jpg


The Virgin Sample. Whats in a basic bottle of Castrol TXT 505.01 This oil is basicly a diesel oil mixture with slightly higher Phosphorus and Zinc than non diesel oils. There is nothing really special about this oil over any other synthetic oil blended under the SL standard for diesels instead of the new SM standards really. All they did was increase the Phos and Zinc the anti-wear properties of this oil. The oil I use has 3 to 4 times the amount of Phos and Zinc found in this oil. The rest of what is in the oil is detergents and dispersents. The TBN was 8.2 which is good, but probably would have been a little higher if they could have heated and pressurized the oil to activate the additives in the oil, so I'll give this oil another 1.5 to 2 on its TBN. This oil is not worth $17 per qt though.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/GENXER1971/RS6Virgin-1.jpg




This oil can last and protect your engine up to 10K miles. The TBN is still at 2 with 9500 miles on the oil with most wear in the normal range. The Iron which is from cylinders and the valve trains is showing above avg wear but nothing dangerously abnormal. The lead comes from bearings and they are also showing above avg wear but again not alarmingly high. The .5% fuel in the oil caused my viscosity numbers to be lower than they should be and that also probably caused the abnormal wear on the Iron and lead parts. The ACES IV I use in my fuel will fix this issue as it prevents blowby. Silicon comes from dirty air filters so I probably need to change them based on the amount of silicon in the oil. Insolubles in the oil were .3 so the oil filter is great, still filtering after 9500 miles, this also means the oil does not create a lot of burn off/ carbon/ ash. Blackstone recommended 10,500 miles on this oil. The oil I use has a TBN of 12-14 on its virgin sample. I hope this helps.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/GENXER1971/RS69500-1.jpg

[DHall1]

Willie,

Thank you for the quick post and info.

PS/I dont know if you want your address on the web. ?? Dont know what sort of characters are out there. LOL

Dave

[GEN XER]

Oooppps.....


willie,

thank you for the quick post and info.

Ps/i dont know if you want your address on the web. ?? Dont know what sort of characters are out there. Lol

dave

[allwheelsdriven]

yeah the sti people are constantly sending their oil to blackstone and posting results. Its fun (or not) to see what your 5w40 sheers down to in 3000 miles

[DHall1]

LOL

:cheers:


Oooppps.....

[GEN XER]

LOL

:cheers:


Fixed. Good catch

[GEN XER]

yeah the sti people are constantly sending their oil to blackstone and posting results. Its fun (or not) to see what your 5w40 sheers down to in 3000 miles


It seems that those guys need to talk to Brian at BND Auto.

[Yellow RS6]

So what you're saying is, the recommended oil and filter can last 10K? Which is the interval stated in the maintenance schedule.

[GEN XER]

Yes this oil will go past 10K actually. Read the last line of the comments from the second analysis. With a 2 TBN this oil still has anti-wear additives and is still protecting the metals in the engine. With insolubles at 0.3ppm after 9500 miles it means this filter is more than capable of performing up to task. Usually I see this number at .5 or .6 after this many miles with filters from Autozone and Advance and believe me I have tested most of them. The only issue with this oil is the fuel present in the oil has degraded it to much and the viscosity and flashpoint numbers are to low. Even with that I can go another 1K miles on this oil. I will fix this by using Aces IV fuel catalyst which will stop the blow-by, thereby protecting the oil from the fuel better over longer oil change intervals. If you are wondering what Aces IV is check here http://www.acesworldwide.com/ Then check out this video to contrast Aces to what is currently on the market. http://www.acesworldwide.com/products_movie.html. You'll have to use it to believe it. It cant be touched.

[hahnmgh63]

It appears the Aces is a fuel additive? How much do you add to the fuel? Do you somehow set up and injector? How much does it cost? Have you used it before?

[hahnmgh63]

I would love to see your oil analysis on the BND oil if that is what you are using. I just got off the phone with Brian and it sounds interesting. I just purchased a gallon of the Aces IV. Right now $225 a gallon and $62.50 a qt.

[GEN XER]

It appears the Aces is a fuel additive? How much do you add to the fuel? Do you somehow set up and injector? How much does it cost? Have you used it before?

Normally it is a 1oz to 6gal ratio, so 3.5oz for a full tank. You only treat the fuel you add after that. What Im seeing now is my RS6 likes it at 2 to 2.5oz per tank. Before Aces I was getting less than 300 miles per tank after the Aces I get more than 350 miles per tank. The MPG is not what so much what Im looking for in a 450hp V8, but its a plus, its the top down lube the aces provide in the heads and cylinders that I was more interested in. This stuff is the most advanced fuel treatment I have used.
Yes the Aces is $225 a gallon but it last me about 6 months treating two cars, sometimes as many as 4, when my wife tells me she has refueled. All in all a gallon of Aces treats 768 gallons of fuel. Im sure he told you all about the lubricity that the fuel we use has lost because of ethanol, this product returns that lubricity back, therefore the cooling effect is also returned. needless to say a cool gasoline engine is more efficient than a hot one. There is a lot of technology behind Aces and the Quantum Blue oils and coolants.


I would love to see your oil analysis on the BND oil if that is what you are using. I just got off the phone with Brian and it sounds interesting. I just purchased a gallon of the Aces IV. Right now $225 a gallon and $62.50 a qt.

I just ordered my oil last week. I will get a samle as soon as I get it in the car and get some miles on it. I have samples from my VW GTI, and my SRT8 though.

[nyrs6]

Normally it is a 1oz to 6gal ratio, so 3.5oz for a full tank. You only treat the fuel you add after that. What Im seeing now is my RS6 likes it at 2 to 2.5oz per tank. Before Aces I was getting less than 300 miles per tank after the Aces I get more than 350 miles per tank. The MPG is not what so much what Im looking for in a 450hp V8, but its a plus, its the top down lube the aces provide in the heads and cylinders that I was more interested in. This stuff is the most advanced fuel treatment I have used.
Yes the Aces is $225 a gallon but it last me about 6 months treating two cars, sometimes as many as 4, when my wife tells me she has refueled. All in all a gallon of Aces treats 768 gallons of fuel. Im sure he told you all about the lubricity that the fuel we use has lost because of ethanol, this product returns that lubricity back, therefore the cooling effect is also returned. needless to say a cool gasoline engine is more efficient than a hot one. There is a lot of technology behind Aces and the Quantum Blue oils and coolants.



I just ordered my oil last week. I will get a samle as soon as I get it in the car and get some miles on it. I have samples from my VW GTI, and my SRT8 though.

Are you the first owner?If so how did you break in your car?

Also can you PM me your results for the GTI since i drive one i would be intrested. How long was the GTIs oil used?

[GEN XER]

Are you the first owner?If so how did you break in your car?

Also can you PM me your results for the GTI since i drive one i would be intrested. How long was the GTIs oil used?

I am not the first owner. I wish I were. I will send you the GTI samples.

[kday]

Thought I'd resurrect this thread since I have two samples of my own to post. Interesting that my samples show elevated lead and iron as well. Anyone have a similar report for a different oil?

http://blog.ultrameta.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/rs6oil.png

[Dmb408]

my indy actually said they would send my sample next time on the house and i think they use these guys so i'll try to bring this thread back up in a month.

[G2]

This great info to see, thanks for the updates. I hope to contribute with several samples in the near future...

For those that want an easy UOA program that's affordable, consider going thru Amsoil (they use Oil Analyzers INC). You can order the UOA self mailer kits for wholesale at www.oiloregon.com.

Be great to see more comparative data from our group.

[kday]

The thing that puzzles me about the elevated iron is that these engines have relatively little steel in them as far as I know. Besides camshafts and the crankshaft what is there? What are the turbocharger bearings made of?

[DHall1]

I will be coming up due for 8000 mile interval on my BND RS6 oil here shortly. I will send a sample to Blackstone

Anyone else have BND that could send the sample? I have noticed the engine much quieter on startup w/BND.

[G2]

kday- that point crossed my mind too. Maybe it's the doubled up con-rods rubbing against each other?

[papadoc]

Kevin, the phosphorus level in your oil was a lot lower than when I had mine analyzed a while ago, I wonder if Brian has changed the formula...
http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/20086-BND-Automotive-oils-fuel-additives-coolant-ect?p=220140&highlight=#post220140

[DHall1]

Kevin's sample was Castrol. Brian at BND has not changed his RS6 formula oil.

Thanks for digging up your BND results. I will post my 8000 mile sample soon. And mine is run with ACES as well....should be good stuff.


Kevin, the phosphorus level in your oil was a lot lower than when I had mine analyzed a while ago, I wonder if Brian has changed the formula...
http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/20086-BND-Automotive-oils-fuel-additives-coolant-ect?p=220140&highlight=#post220140

[kday]

That's right, my oil samples were both the factory spec oil.
Hardwin, thanks for posting the link. It is an interesting comparison. Your sample had significantly less iron in it than mine, but more nickel. Similar figures for lead.
I guess the manganese, boron, and phosphorus are from the BND additives.
Will be interesting to see if this pattern continues with other samples.

[lswing]

I always like this stuff so will try and get the oil sampled when time. Running Amsoil and it's looking clean at ~3,000k. Usually change every 3-5k, but can go 7-8k with this car?

[DHall1]

My BND is still clean at 7k. Doh

I gauge the interval on how hard the car was run. 5k if run hard and 9k if easy


I always like this stuff so will try and get the oil sampled when time. Running Amsoil and it's looking clean at ~3,000k. Usually change every 3-5k, but can go 7-8k with this car?

[papadoc]

I also have a sample for Blackstone after running Motul 8100 Xcess 5w40, and will send that in for analysis and comparison as well. Used this for one interval after Quantum Blue, and never bothered to send it in, but given the resurrection of this thread, what the heck. I know the phosphorus and zinc content will be lower, and it will be interesting to see if iron and lead change as well. And Kevin, I have to think the high phosphorus content in particular is from an additive that Brian uses, likely ZDDP. Current oils have a mandated phosphorus max of 800 ppm, and you can see from my prior Blackstone analysis that the Quantum Blue had 3 times that. Lots of comments on boards of older performance cars speaking to the need for ZDDP in the oil for lubrication, especially at start up. I am moving my RS6 into non-daily driver mode, and I would think having an oil to protect on start up would be even more important, hence Quantum Blue from now on. All that said, this may be most important for those of us looking to get 300,000 miles on our car...after three transmission rebuilds!

[G2]

[QUOTE=lswing;257528] I always like this stuff so will try and get the oil sampled when time. Running Amsoil and it's looking clean at ~3,000k. Usually change every 3-5k, but can go 7-8k with this car?[/QUOTE

I'd say it depends on which Amsoil... 5-40 Euro EFM? Or AFL?

I ran 6K on EFM (higher SAPS than AFL) with Amsoil filter, but not by choice. Was simply too busy to change it at 5K (or sooner). Still wasn't black. For some reason Amsoil refuses to turn black in gas engines (does in diesels). Will see how the UOA report turns out.

Plans are to use Amsoil 10-40 AMO come springtime. Much higher TBN, SAPS, among other specs. 5-40 EFM is good stuff, not expensive, but the way you drive stick to 5K/6months :revs:

[DHall1]

Well, well

I actually ran my BND sample to 10000 miles. Yes Virginia, 10000 miles on a flashed RS6. Result?

A report that Blackstone quoted as "Perfect"

:-)

BND and Aces FTW.

Not a paid spokesman. I have run Aces in the fuel for years now and cant be happier because we have crap for fuel at the pump in AZ. This particular RS6 has had Aces from 33k and now sits at 59k for miles. Oil has always been the 505.01 Castrol until this run with BND Quantum Blue. I run the Aces mix between 80-90% of the time. I cant believe we can run 10k on this oil and the car is flashed with the good stuff. Learn something new every day.

This car is a keeper for sure.

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s532/03RSTT/scan_zpsa8053714.jpg


I will be coming up due for 8000 mile interval on my BND RS6 oil here shortly. I will send a sample to Blackstone

Anyone else have BND that could send the sample? I have noticed the engine much quieter on startup w/BND.

[MaxRS6]

Great results

[V8weight]

Your phosphorus levels are off the charts...

[lswing]

All the current gasoline categories (including the obsolete SH), have placed limitations on the phosphorus content for certain SAE viscosity grades (the xW-20, xW-30) due to the chemical poisoning that phosphorus has on catalytic converters. Phosphorus is a key anti-wear component in motor oil and is usually found in motor oil in the form of zinc dithiophosphate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate). Each new API category has placed successively lower phosphorus and zinc limits, and thus has created a controversial issue of obsolescent oils needed for older engines, especially engines with sliding (flat/cleave) tappets. API, and ILSAC, which represents most of the worlds major automobile/engine manufactures, states API SM/ILSAC GF-4 is fully backwards compatible, and it is noted that one of the engine tests required for API SM, the Sequence IVA, is a sliding tappet design to test specifically for cam wear protection. Not everyone is in agreement with backwards compatibility, and in addition, there are special situations, such as "performance" engines or fully race built engines, where the engine protection requirements are above and beyond API/ILSAC requirements. Because of this, there are specialty oils out in the market place with higher than API allowed phosphorus levels. Most engines built before 1985 have the flat/cleave bearing style systems of construction, which is sensitive to reducing zinc and phosphorus. Example; in API SG rated oils, this was at the 1200-1300 ppm level for zinc and phosphorus, where the current SM is under 600 ppm. This reduction in anti-wear chemicals in oil has caused premature failures of camshafts and other high pressure bearings in many older automobiles and has been blamed for pre-mature failure of the oil pump drive/cam position sensor gear that is meshed with camshaft gear in some modern engines.

Great numbers, glad to see it's all working well!

[DHall1]

Ralph Nader showed up at my door today. Told me that the RS6 was the most unreliable and expensive car to fix in the country. And that it was gross carbon emission pollution vehicle.

I told him to hold my can of beer on his head and go stand over by the pond.


Your phosphorus levels are off the charts...

[DHall1]

Here is Papadoc's BND sample which was also run with ACES in the fuel.

http://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11610&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1312385059 (http://www.rs6.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11610&d=1312385059)



I also have a sample for Blackstone after running Motul 8100 Xcess 5w40, and will send that in for analysis and comparison as well. Used this for one interval after Quantum Blue, and never bothered to send it in, but given the resurrection of this thread, what the heck. I know the phosphorus and zinc content will be lower, and it will be interesting to see if iron and lead change as well. And Kevin, I have to think the high phosphorus content in particular is from an additive that Brian uses, likely ZDDP. Current oils have a mandated phosphorus max of 800 ppm, and you can see from my prior Blackstone analysis that the Quantum Blue had 3 times that. Lots of comments on boards of older performance cars speaking to the need for ZDDP in the oil for lubrication, especially at start up. I am moving my RS6 into non-daily driver mode, and I would think having an oil to protect on start up would be even more important, hence Quantum Blue from now on. All that said, this may be most important for those of us looking to get 300,000 miles on our car...after three transmission rebuilds!

[G2]

I was curious about how the TBN interplays with suggested drain intervals. After reading the UOA reports, went to the source:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

Based on their suggestions looks like 2.5 TBN is the lower limit. But the UOA reports are showing about 1 TBN as a min limit. I'm sure there's more to the story....

[papadoc]

Ralph Nader showed up at my door today. Told me that the RS6 was the most unreliable and expensive car to fix in the country. And that it was gross carbon emission pollution vehicle.

I told him to hold my can of beer on his head and go stand over by the pond.

HA, best laugh of the day. Glad to see your results were very similar to mine with the Quantum Blue. And hey, thanks to you for pointing to BND products many years ago. Just amazing though that Brian hasn't expanded his operation.

[papadoc]

Ralph Nader showed up at my door today. Told me that the RS6 was the most unreliable and expensive car to fix in the country. And that it was gross carbon emission pollution vehicle.

I told him to hold my can of beer on his head and go stand over by the pond.

HA, best laugh of the day. Glad to see your results were very similar to mine with the Quantum Blue. And hey, thanks to you for pointing to BND products many years ago. Just amazing though that Brian hasn't expanded his operation.

[G2]

More info. Reading down some gives another recommendation on lower TBN limits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Base_Number

[DHall1]

Talked to Brian and placed a new order today.

The phosphorus he uses is a neutral base. Not acidic and thus does not harm the O2 sensors or cats.

Brian was very happy to see the oil lab results.


Your phosphorus levels are off the charts...