New theory about RS5 engine

[tailpipe]

A journalist at the UK's Car Magazine was told by Wolfgang Hatz last year that the RS5 would get a twin-turbo 4.2 FSI. They ran a very good story about it. A development mule with this engine has been seen on the Ring. From the sound it sounds like a turbo and is distinctly different from noise of RS4 (see YouTube).

That was last year. Since then the world economy has melted down. Suddenly Audi realizes that such an engine is no longer appropriate and so commences work on 4.0-litre TFSI.

Meanwhile, Audi delays choice of engine in RS5 until it decides when to launch it. If Audi launches RS5 this year, then why not simply slot in existing 4.2 FSI engine from R8 with 450 bhp? Perhaps it could be slightly returned to deliver 465 bhp. Development costs = close to zero.

Then when 4.0-litre TFSI is ready, they just slot that in instead. Alternatively, they just delay launch until 4.0 engine is ready and launch RS4 and RS5 at the same time.

Just a theory.

[Leadfoot]

tailpipe,

I think if you look about I gave that theory a few weeks ago so it ain't a new theory at all.

P.S.

After I wrote that 'theory' I received a PM stating that the RS5 would not have an engine change like is the case with the S5 and it would be a N/A V8.

[The Pretender]

The 4.0TFSI is a ± 395 hp V8 supercharged engine developed for the next gen A8.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

The 4.0TFSI is a ± 395 hp V8 supercharged engine developed for the next gen A8.

Jarod.

wrong, in interview at an older AMS was a interview with Dr. Stefan Dengler (engine deveplment) and he said the new 4.0 TFSI will be a Twin Turbo with turbos mounted in the V.

[HKS786]

The 4.0TFSI is a ± 395 hp V8 supercharged engine developed for the next gen A8.

Jarod.


wrong, in interview at an older AMS was a interview with Dr. Stefan Dengler (engine deveplment) and he said the new 4.0 TFSI will be a Twin Turbo with turbos mounted in the V.


I dont know if its turbo'd or supercharged, but I do know from the spreadsheet (which has been accurate so far about everything) says this new engine will appear in the S7 too.

[Leadfoot]

The problem is that since Audi used the exact same letter arrangement for both turbo and supercharger applications it's really harder to know what it really is.

Audi has said that the 3.0SC would be the biggest unit to use a supercharger but is it known whether that statement was referring to RS models or the rest of the range.

I haven't heard any info on the engine so either it's a well kept secret or this engine isn't going into an RS model anytime soon.

[tailpipe]

After I posting this, I realized that Qisha had in fact confirmed that RS5 would be the first car to get the new 4.0 litre TFSI engine.

I certainly don't think that RS5 will get NA engine, Leadfoot.

[AndyBG]

After I posting this, I realized that Qisha had in fact confirmed that RS5 would be the first car to get the new 4.0 litre TFSI engine.

I certainly don't think that RS5 will get NA engine, Leadfoot.

I certanly hope you have right, and that RS 5 will be getting that engine...

[Leadfoot]

After I posting this, I realized that Qisha had in fact confirmed that RS5 would be the first car to get the new 4.0 litre TFSI engine.

I certainly don't think that RS5 will get NA engine, Leadfoot.

Check again with that Qisha said, here it is to save you looking.


Dear Friends,

dont want to shorten up the discussion, but some hints:

-RS5 final specs are decided and approved by the executive board
-RS5 will have a unique RS car look
-no RS car will change specs during lifecycle
-RS4 B8 development request is not confirmed yet
-most likely the RS4 B8 will use the same base specs like the RS5
-at this time the market introduction will more likely be early 2010 than late 2009
-software engineering is under finalization (finish schedule: end of 1st quarter)
-finishing on drivetrain and suspension set up is following thereafter (finish schedule: 2nd quarter)
-final longrun tests finish up by the end of the 3rd quarter
-the only 4.2 forced induction engine is a diesel
-engine size as well as capacity will decrease prospectively
-performance figures and output will increase adequate

If you look in the future you can anticipate staged induction, Ionic injection and combined combustion- to name some catchwords.

Qisha

I think you reckon the part I highlighted in bold refers to the RS5........why?

Qisha's comments were only a reaction to your own comments stating that the RS5 will have a 4.2TT and was only stating that it is not the case, the only 4.2 TT is the 4.2TDi.

[tailpipe]

Hi Leadfoot,

What Qisha is saying is that the forced induction engine in the RS5 mules pounding around the Nurburgring are in fact 4.0-litre forced induction units.

He backs this up by saying engine size and capacity will be decreased. 4.0-litre engine is physically much smaller in overall size than 4.2 litre FSI as well as being .02 litre less in capacity. :thumb:

Thanks to the TFSI tech performance will increase dramatically. :revs: :thumb:

He also mentioned that staged induction and ionic injection are in the pipeline: both are features of new 4.0-litre. :burnout: :thumb:

The discussion I had with an Audi marketing person over the Christmas holidays explained the internal debate about do we launch with 4.2 soon or wait for new 4.0 later was clearly old news. Audi had already decided to wait before releasing RS5 so that it could have the much better 4.0-litre engine. This means RS5 will arrive in middle of 2010 not this year, again confirmed by Qisha. :asian:

My conversation with Audi person was generally related to how brilliant this new 4.0-litre engine is. I asked about NA 4.2 versus TT and he said that it is end of the road for NA. Even R8 will get new 4.0-litre V8 when it is refreshed. :wo:

my bet is that Qisha probably realizes he said more than he should have already so will not reply. Let's see!

[KresoF1]

Hmm... Leadie is right and Tailpipe is wrong.

First Audi with new 4.0TFSI will NOT BE RS5.

All Qisha's informations are correct and Leadie interpretation of them is accurate one.

[tvrfan]

first audi with 4.0 TFSI will be maybe the A8. but i think the RS5 will get it to. audi isnt so stupid to put the 4.2l V8 in the RS5, because of emission. also it wouldnt be vorsprung durch technik ;)

[tailpipe]

Hmm... Leadie is right and Tailpipe is wrong.

First Audi with new 4.0TFSI will NOT BE RS5.

All Qisha's informations are correct and Leadie interpretation of them is accurate one.

Let me be clear about what i do know and what i don't.

I know that 4.2 FSI V8 is on its way out. NA being replaced by forced induction because it is best way to maximize performance and economy while minimizing emissions. Period.

RS4 will get V8 not V6. It has to because C63, M3 and ISF all offer V8s. They are the class standard. Period.

Fuel economy on current RS4 is shocking. NA 4.2 FSI is now politically unacceptable. In fact, this is the entire reason why a new 4.0-litre V8 was commissioned.

I am not interested in RS5 so didn't ask my Audi contact about what it would get. But marketing guy say that 4.0-litre V8 was a shoe-in for the RS4.

It therefore makes sense to put same engine in RS5. What it doesn't make sense is to put thirsty NA 4.2 V8. We know for sure that RS5 mules pounding around ring have been turboed and are not NA. Listen to the noise on various films. (See Youtube).

Finally, we have Qisha's enigmatic post on other thread, which I interpret as confirmation that RS5 will get new 4.0-litre V8.

Interestingly, new Audi A8 arrives before RS5 and RS4 which is why it will be first car in range to get it.

I hope that clears up everything.

[KresoF1]

Just one comment about "thirst"...

All German tests unfortunately clearly presented one thing as a fact. New S4 is not any better in real world fuel consumption then "old" S5. Yes, on papers things look good but, how is driving 120km/h in sixth gear in real world? Or in seventh if you use S Tronic in new S4? Nobody...

[AndyBG]

...and all this is bringing us back to the start and the fact that these engines will use as much fuel as you give them, wether they are N/A, turbo, S/C, FSI, TFSI, TSI, DFI...

[tailpipe]

I'm not sure I agree with your claim that all German tests share such a view. Do you really think that that the new 3.0-litre engine offers only marginally improved fuel consumption over old 4.2 V8. Moreover, even if German testers do conclude such a thing, I'm not convinced that such magazine reviews are accurate anyway, since most testers do little more than thrash such cars on the circuit for two hours. It's hardly what you call representative of real world motoring.

[KresoF1]

Usual test for German magazines last for several days and they made up to 5000km with test example.
One of my friends works for Motorpresse(company that publish AMS and Sport Auto), he drove new S4-both manual and S Tronic-his conclusion is that in fuel consumption new engine is really marginally better then old one in S5.

[artur777]

THe contradiction is evident.

It looks like RS5 will get 4.2NA engine which is obsolete.
But for Audi itis better to launch it with 4.0TFSI for various reasons.
The crisis gives a chance to delay the RS5 launch.

THe question is: why did Audi decide to go with NA engine if they have all the opportunitites to do it with TFSI egnine?
Please explain their logic to me...
I don't catch it at all

[KresoF1]

So, most members here wants new 4.0 TFSI in RS5...

OK, let's look at potential numbers for 3993ccm V8 biturbo engine...

465ps/6000-6500rpm(as minimun value-upper limit is at 480ps)
530Nm/1500-6000rpm
10,5:1 Kompression ratio
Engine weight about 20kg more(YES!!!) then HDZ 4.2 FSI(450ps)

Here is part of the problem-how good is 7speed S Tronic for this usage? Remember that 550Nm is upper limit. So, with tuning we could see some broken S Tronics... Next thing is turque limit for current Sport Diff... Again-about the same as for S Tronic 550Nm(just beware that Torsen quattro can handle up to 100% of power on rear wheels if needed)...

Other interesting reason is that current 7speed S Tronic is phisically too long for V8 engine. It can fit as Audi shown in some test mules but, gearbox was suffering from overheating... So, new-different 7speed S Tronic is needed(in develoment-intro 2011).

BTW, first Audi model that will get new 4.0TFSI will also use new 8speed Tiptronic with it...

[The Pretender]

BTW, first Audi model that will get new 4.0TFSI will also use new 8speed Tiptronic with it...
All to be introduced in the next Gen A8.

Jarod.

[artur777]

KresoF1,

I see your point
RS5 is not technically ready to meet this new engine

So we will see it first in S7 then:-) -I mean tuned version not basic one with 400PS
RS7 will be fitted with RS6 engine

[tailpipe]

So, most members here wants new 4.0 TFSI in RS5...

OK, let's look at potential numbers for 3993ccm V8 biturbo engine...

465ps/6000-6500rpm(as minimun value-upper limit is at 480ps)
530Nm/1500-6000rpm
10,5:1 Kompression ratio
Engine weight about 20kg more(YES!!!) then HDZ 4.2 FSI(450ps)

Here is part of the problem-how good is 7speed S Tronic for this usage? Remember that 550Nm is upper limit. So, with tuning we could see some broken S Tronics... Next thing is turque limit for current Sport Diff... Again-about the same as for S Tronic 550Nm(just beware that Torsen quattro can handle up to 100% of power on rear wheels if needed)...

Other interesting reason is that current 7speed S Tronic is phisically too long for V8 engine. It can fit as Audi shown in some test mules but, gearbox was suffering from overheating... So, new-different 7speed S Tronic is needed(in develoment-intro 2011).

BTW, first Audi model that will get new 4.0TFSI will also use new 8speed Tiptronic with it...

Very interesting point. So RS5 could not use tuned version of existing 4.2 litre NA engine for same reason? Is it therefore possible that RS5 will use a Tiptronic box, existing or new 8-Speed?

[KresoF1]

No, you did not understand my post.

4.2 HDZ FSI with 450ps/450Nm can be mated with current 7speed S Tronic without any problem.

[The Pretender]

It make no difference what engine comes under the bonnet, all depends on the weight of the thing.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

i really dont want a 4.2l HDZ. i dont like NA :( . i want to see the 4.0 TFSI. also the 4.2l HDZ wont be "vorsprung durch technik" that would be the 4.0 TFSI with better economy and emmissions compared to the M3 and C63 AMG

[The Pretender]

i really dont want a 4.2l HDZ.
Ditto.

Jarod.

[tailpipe]

I think you will need at least 450-460 bhp in RS5 to make it worth considering above the C63 - which by all accounts, i.e. sales is the benchmark for the category. Would an S-Tronic gearbox handle the extra torque put out by 460 bhp engine? I don't know, but beefing-up the output of the existing 4.2 FSI engine would incur a significant fuel economy penalty. That's why I don't think RS5 will go NA. It isn't a step forward. But then again the 5.2 litre Lamborghini engine in the R8 is hardly a step forward either, so you could be right.

I still interpret Qisha's remarks to imply that the 4.0 litre V8 is coming in the RS5. God I hope I'm right.

[AndyBG]

Aren't RS 5s main rivals M3 Coupe and future E 63 AMG Coupe...?

E 63 AMG Coupe is expected with 514 hp.

[chewym]

I think you will need at least 450-460 bhp in RS5 to make it worth considering above the C63 - which by all accounts, i.e. sales is the benchmark for the category. Would an S-Tronic gearbox handle the extra torque put out by 460 bhp engine? I don't know, but beefing-up the output of the existing 4.2 FSI engine would incur a significant fuel economy penalty. That's why I don't think RS5 will go NA. It isn't a step forward. But then again the 5.2 litre Lamborghini engine in the R8 is hardly a step forward either, so you could be right.

I still interpret Qisha's remarks to imply that the 4.0 litre V8 is coming in the RS5. God I hope I'm right.

The M3 sedans and C63 sedan are the biggest sellers. M3 convertible outsells M3 coupe.

I think the V10 RS6 torque is less than what it can actually make. A 4.0T would be at the limit of the S-Tronic gearbox like the RS6 is at the limit of the RS6 tiptronic.

The V10 R8 has the same fuel economy as the V8 R8. If the next RS4/RS5 continue to use the naturally aspirated V8 they will likely get quite a bit better fuel economy than the B7 RS4. I think the reason why the B7 RS4 (and R8) gets fairly poor fuel economy is the poor gearing (RPM too high at highway speed) 7 speed S-Tronic would solve such problems. The B7 RS4 had fuel economy of 13.4 liter (in combined driving) A hypothetical B8 RS4/5 (S-Tronic) with the high rev V8 should match the M3 and use a liter less than the B7 RS4 (12.5 or maybe a little less) A twin turbo V8 could possibly knock off yet another liter in fuel consumption (11.5?) The current S4 is 9.4-9.7.

I think earlier reports said that the RS5 would have been shown @ Detroit. It wasn't, which could indicate that Audi is changing engines. Of course there can be many other reasons for the delay.

[Leadfoot]

I think you will need at least 450-460 bhp in RS5 to make it worth considering above the C63 - which by all accounts, i.e. sales is the benchmark for the category. Would an S-Tronic gearbox handle the extra torque put out by 460 bhp engine? I don't know, but beefing-up the output of the existing 4.2 FSI engine would incur a significant fuel economy penalty. That's why I don't think RS5 will go NA. It isn't a step forward. But then again the 5.2 litre Lamborghini engine in the R8 is hardly a step forward either, so you could be right.

I still interpret Qisha's remarks to imply that the 4.0 litre V8 is coming in the RS5. God I hope I'm right.

QuattroGmbH chose to use the N/A V8 and uprate it so they could use the S/Tronic, that's my belief and yes it will be more economical than the previous version of the engine, my guess is 10~15% more economical. The sooner we move pass this thing of is it this or isn't it that engine the better, it's a HDZv8 and it may surprise you just how good it really is.

Tailpipe, you can interpret Qisha's remarks and think it implies that it's a 4.0TFSi but it's not and no amount of wishful thinking will change that fact. I was told long ago that the RS5 would be running a N/A v8, long before everyone believe Detroit would be it's launch and it has been reaffirmed since that date that nothing has changed and the RS5 is still using the same engine choice. There must be a very good reason for choosing the N/A engine and I reckon that reason is the S/Tronic gearbox and Sportdiff. No other gearbox would be accepted for this class of car, sure there could be a manual and probably will be but every other manufacturer in this class are prompting DCT gearboxes, for Audi to not have this option then it will be seriously limiting it's selling appeal and the RS5 needs Sportdiff to match the involvement for the driver that the rest of the cars in it's class have.

If things change and I hear different I will be right on my keyboard informing you lot but so far NOTHING has changed.

[KresoF1]

But then again the 5.2 litre Lamborghini engine in the R8 is hardly a step forward either, so you could be right.

I still interpret Qisha's remarks to imply that the 4.0 litre V8 is coming in the RS5. God I hope I'm right.

So, for you Audi's 5.2 FSI HDZ V10 in R8 is nothing special... First, it is Audi's engine since Audi owns Lambo. Even first Gallardo engine was designed on Audi Block. It is Audi's engine that is using different exhaust and ECU mapping for LP560-4.
Second, Audi is world leader in DFI engine development. Did you know that Ferrari bought two R8 4.2 FSI for evalution since they do not have any experince with DFI's? Result is California DFI engine that is using almost the same ECU layout as R8's 4.2 FSI...

Now look at this lists...

High reving NA DFI engines:

Audi R8 5.2 FSI
Audi R8 4.2 FSI
Ferrari California

Mid reving(up to 7600rpm) DFI engines:

Audi A4 3.2 FSI
Jaguar XK 5.0
Porsche 997.2 Carrera S
Porsche 997.2 Carrera
Porsche Cayman S

Kompressor DFI engines:

Audi S4
Jaguar XKR

Biturbo DFI engines:

Audi RS6
BMW 335i
BMW 750i


For your information only Nissan GT-R engine is old technology as is Porsche 997 Turbo's. Even new 997.2 GT3 is using old GT1 block based 3.8L engine without DFI.

Audi's engines are pure SOTA IMHO.

[artur777]

So, for you Audi's 5.2 FSI HDZ V10 in R8 is nothing special... First, it is Audi's engine since Audi owns Lambo. Even first Gallardo engine was designed on Audi Block. It is Audi's engine that is using different exhaust and ECU mapping for LP560-4.
Second, Audi is world leader in DFI engine development. Did you know that Ferrari bought two R8 4.2 FSI for evalution since they do not have any experince with DFI's? Result is California DFI engine that is using almost the same ECU layout as R8's 4.2 FSI...

Now look at this lists...

High reving NA DFI engines:

Audi R8 5.2 FSI
Audi R8 4.2 FSI
Ferrari California

Mid reving(up to 7600rpm) DFI engines:

Audi A4 3.2 FSI
Jaguar XK 5.0
Porsche 997.2 Carrera S
Porsche 997.2 Carrera
Porsche Cayman S

Kompressor DFI engines:

Audi S4
Jaguar XKR

Biturbo DFI engines:

Audi RS6
BMW 335i
BMW 750i


For your information only Nissan GT-R engine is old technology as is Porsche 997 Turbo's. Even new 997.2 GT3 is using old GT1 block based 3.8L engine without DFI.

Audi's engines are pure SOTA IMHO.

Nice one info BTW
BMW has only two good DFI engines...
997,2 Turbo soon will join the competition - after the FL, I hope:)

But Audi's engines are masterpieces really...

[tailpipe]

So, for you Audi's 5.2 FSI HDZ V10 in R8 is nothing special... First, it is Audi's engine since Audi owns Lambo. Even first Gallardo engine was designed on Audi Block. It is Audi's engine that is using different exhaust and ECU mapping for LP560-4.

Audi's engines are pure SOTA IMHO.

KresF1,

The world has changed. Even Mercedes-Benz admits that the horsepower war is over. We live on a planet with finite resources. It's time to drive performance cars that are more energy efficient and pollute less.

"Go drive an electric mini, then!" I hear you say. The thing is I still want performance. I want power AND economy. That's why the S4 is so appealing. It is full clever tech. It was a brave car that shows Audi's leadership IMHO.

That said, the 4.2 litre FSI is still a mighty engine. Jeremy Clarkson described it as one of the greats. After owning an E46 M3, the RS4 converted me to Audi. The penalty was dire fuel consumption. London to Italy (which I do regularly) required way too many fuel stops versus the M3, (5 versus 3). So in the end, I saw the car as more of a toy than a real world, everyday car. So it went. (I bought a Lexus instead- which was the biggest mistake of my life, but that's a whole other story.)

Now I want a fast Audi with Quattro again. I liked the old RS6, but am not convinced that its 5.2 V10 is really significantly better than 4.2 V8. The S4 has certainly got me interested. But, you know what, i want a V8.

I looked at C63, but despite mighty performance, it is really a Merc version of RS4 and again very thirsty, but at least it has a bigger petrol tank. So am thinking about S4 or two cars: a replacement for A2 and something fast. Sadly it wont be an RS5. I need the extra doors.

That's me.

[artur777]

Tailpipe, looks like it could be RS4 B8 for you:-) in 1,5 years
or new BMW M5 in 2 years.

[Marv]

Nice one info BTW
BMW has only two good DFI engines...
997,2 Turbo soon will join the competition - after the FL, I hope:)

But Audi's engines are masterpieces really...

...well the petrol engines are, the diesel ones are definitely not top of the class. BMW and now Jaguar (with their new twin sequential turbo v6 configuration) are the best IMHO. Audi need to up their game here.

[tvrfan]

...well the petrol engines are, the diesel ones are definitely not top of the class. BMW and now Jaguar (with their new twin sequential turbo v6 configuration) are the best IMHO. Audi need to up their game here.

audi is really disapointing in diesel technology. they always say they are the diesel kings. ok V12 TDI is a masterpiece. but where is the longwaited 335d or 535d competitor from audi? the 3.0tdi is already old. bmw has offered superb diesel engines and there 286hp diesel engine is almost 5 or 6 years old and audi isnt even thinking about to deveplmonent such an engine. thats disapointing.

[Leadfoot]

...well the petrol engines are, the diesel ones are definitely not top of the class. BMW and now Jaguar (with their new twin sequential turbo v6 configuration) are the best IMHO. Audi need to up their game here.

Yes it's a bit of a mystery why Audi haven't got their own twin turbo diesel to compete with the BMW and now Jaguar performance diesels. I remember hearing about the likelihood that Audi were working on their own hi-performance diesel that would from an equivalent to their S and RS petrol model, but since that time the whole thing seemed to fizzle out or either it was at best a rumor that started on the Internet.

Though they do have two of the best diesels in the 4.2TDi and the V12TDi (D beast).

[Bogdan]

I've read in an AUDI timetable sheet that they are coming out with a 3.0 litre 300 hp diesel engine in the A8 in 2010. That I think only means bi-turbo. That should be interesting.

[AndyBG]

Well, Audi is competing BMW X5 xDrive35d with Q7 4.2 TDI...

There was talk about 3.0 TDI bi-turbo for Cayenne diesel..., but nothing happend.

[andreadebi]

So, for you Audi's 5.2 FSI HDZ V10 in R8 is nothing special... First, it is Audi's engine since Audi owns Lambo. Even first Gallardo engine was designed on Audi Block. It is Audi's engine that is using different exhaust and ECU mapping for LP560-4.
Second, Audi is world leader in DFI engine development. Did you know that Ferrari bought two R8 4.2 FSI for evalution since they do not have any experince with DFI's? Result is California DFI engine that is using almost the same ECU layout as R8's 4.2 FSI...

Now look at this lists...

High reving NA DFI engines:

Audi R8 5.2 FSI
Audi R8 4.2 FSI
Ferrari California

Mid reving(up to 7600rpm) DFI engines:

Audi A4 3.2 FSI
Jaguar XK 5.0
Porsche 997.2 Carrera S
Porsche 997.2 Carrera
Porsche Cayman S

Kompressor DFI engines:

Audi S4
Jaguar XKR

Biturbo DFI engines:

Audi RS6
BMW 335i
BMW 750i


For your information only Nissan GT-R engine is old technology as is Porsche 997 Turbo's. Even new 997.2 GT3 is using old GT1 block based 3.8L engine without DFI.

Audi's engines are pure SOTA IMHO.

Kreso,what do you mean exactly with "the same ecu layout"?

Ferrari with FPT(fiat powertrain technologies ) developed new california dfi and next v8 and v12

[Mihnea@MRC]

Kreso,what do you mean exactly with "the same ecu layout"?

Ferrari with FPT(fiat powertrain technologies ) developed new california dfi and next v8 and v12

I think he means the same type of ECU, supplied by Bosch, i.e. MED9.x, which is now being used by Lamborghini as well in the FSI Gallardo.

[KresoF1]

Yes. AFAIK California uses Bosch electronics, not my Magnetti Marelli...

[Leadfoot]

From dicussing the potential RS5 engine to who makes the best diesels.

Where did this thread go wrong. :nana:

[KresoF1]

From dicussing the potential RS5 engine to who makes the best diesels.

Where did this thread go wrong. :nana:

When tuning fans jump in... "Oh, NA with 450ps! NO! NO! NO! We want biturbo a la GT-R!"

You are probably one of the few people here(RXBG, Qisha and me could be added) that belive in Audi Engine Development Department.

RS5 will be great car-NO doubt about that.

[Leadfoot]

When tuning fans jump in... "Oh, NA with 450ps! NO! NO! NO! We want biturbo a la GT-R!"

You are probably one of the few people here(RXBG, Qisha and me could be added) that belive in Audi Engine Development Department.

RS5 will be great car-NO doubt about that.

Honestly, Audi could give it a rubber band engine and I would reckon that it would probably be the best rubber band engine ever made, such is my respect for their ability as an engine builder. I don't see the problem with a N/A engine choice, I am expecting it to be easily better than BMW's M3 simply because the RS4's engine was already that good two and a half years ago.

Tailpipe is one of the few seeing the bigger picture that economy and emissions are a serious concern and a turbo or supercharged offering would be the easier to achieve the desired results. But I believe going the N/A route proves the QuattroGmbH are more serious about the rest of the car and not just it's performance, for the second time this year I am very excited about the potential of the handling of Audi RS cars, first was the hints I received about the TT/RS and now the RS5.

We just might be seeing a re-birth of Audi as the number one driver's choice and RS as the name to replace M. :dig:

[artur777]

When tuning fans jump in... "Oh, NA with 450ps! NO! NO! NO! We want biturbo a la GT-R!"

You are probably one of the few people here(RXBG, Qisha and me could be added) that belive in Audi Engine Development Department.

RS5 will be great car-NO doubt about that.

I agree with you also...

[tailpipe]

Yes, Leadfoot, well said. If petrol prices and emissions weren't such hot topics, then I'd much rather go for a NA motor. You get zero turbo lag for starters. And, yes, amen, the RS4's 4.2 FSI was, is, and forever more will be, one of THE great engines.

Thank you for your kind words; I do try to look at the bigger picture. And the bigger picture is that times really have changed. Like aeroplanes revolutionised transatlantic travel relegating companies like the White Star Line to history, so the advent of the Hydrogen Economy is doing the same to car design.

I find my interest in the internal combustion engine waning as fuel cell technology is perfected. Enough people are now working on the different components for us to see the synchronised perfection of battery capacity, hydrogen generation and storage for cars powered with such engines to soon become everyday reality. What limits the commercial application of such technology isn't so much technical innovation, but economic factors. When battery development gives us a lithium-based battery that weighs no more than an existing car battery but delivers the equivalent of driving for 3-hours at 150 mph, the potential for manufacturing costs to colapse driving profits for the Auto Industry is mind boggling. It will be a gold rush. Which means that when the game changes, it will do so very quickly causing massive consolidation among manufacturers. I just hope Audi is ahead of the curve.

I follow the Auto Industry very closely, looking at business / marketing / engineering trends rather than technical details, and I am convinced we are less than 10 years away from an RSH: that's an Audi RS-Hydrogen model. In fact, the Fuel Cell could be the very thing that powers us out of the global recession.

Sorry to take this thread so off topic...

I still believe that RS5 will get 4.0-litre TFSI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Leadfoot]

Well I am still convinced it a 'rubber band' unit.

P.S.
I would love an indepth discussion about the future of motoring but not on this thread. May I suggest else where and possibly we can get the likes of Kerso, Qisha and others to give us their opinions.

[Mihnea@MRC]

When tuning fans jump in... "Oh, NA with 450ps! NO! NO! NO! We want biturbo a la GT-R!"


I, for one, don't want biturbo à la GT-R, I only want a biturbo like the B5 RS4 and the C5 RS6, nothing else ;)

[FLACO X3]

I, for one, don't want biturbo à la GT-R, I only want a biturbo like the B5 RS4 and the C5 RS6, nothing else ;)
haha same here

[The Pretender]

Would like to see the R5T engine in it, it's light and can handle up to 600 hp.
When the S4/S5 get the 3.0TFSI V6 and the next gen S4/S5 get a 2.0TFSI 4 cylinder engine, the RS5 can have a 2.5TFSI 5 cylinder.

Jarod.

[terrytcl]

From reading your discussions, i think logically, the new rs4 / rs5 will be a V6 variant of a current DFI engine with twin turbos (maybe sequential).

lighter than the new S4 and more hp.

they were saying that when they chose the new s4 engine, they were trying to decide between the turbo and supercharged options. they chose the supercharged option due to it's driveability... i think if they bumped the v6 displacement up a little and added sequential turbos... it would solve low and top end power.

just my 2cents on a friday :)

[The Pretender]

The next gen M3 will get a inline 6 Turbo.
I don't see Audi using a V8 in the next gen RS4/RS5.
IMHO we will see a ± 405 hp 3.0TFSI Supercharged V6 engine in it.
It will be ligther and better perform then the old RS4.

Jarod.

[Z07]

Haven't we already heard this thing round the 'ring. It's a V10 or a V8 isn't it. The one I heard sure as hell wasn't a V6.

[The Pretender]

Haven't we already heard this thing round the 'ring. It's a V10 or a V8 isn't it. The one I heard sure as hell wasn't a V6.
If it sound like a V10 then it's for certain a 2.5TFSI inline 5 cylinder engine. ;)
Because there will not be a V10 in it with all the downsizing going on.
It would be nice to see a RS5 with 2.5TFSI inline 5, after 10 years non 5 cylinder engine time and 100 years Audi.
Audi can make it a Twincharger, Kompressor for the low rev's and a big turbo for top power.

Jarod.

[RXBG]

u can't put sequential turbos in a V type engine can you? has to be inline no?

afaik it has been established that the 2011 RS5 is going to be NA V8- introduction IAA in september.

[artur777]

NA V8 4.2L
450 HP

Close the thread pls.

[RXBG]

NA V8 4.2L
450 HP

Close the thread pls.

2nd.

:hihi: