Interesting observation on stock RS6 brake pads [Archive] - RS6.com

DHall1

January 30th, 2009, 20:47

Erik

January 30th, 2009, 20:49

Aren't these rivets supposed to send the electrical signal so that you know that you're supposed to change brakes? ;)

DuckWingDuck

January 31st, 2009, 00:14

the rivets are also what "damages" your rotors. annoying as hell.

DHall1

January 31st, 2009, 02:10

Nope, there is a sensor that is in 1 pad only. When that sensor hits...you get the light.

These look like 'studs" to hold the pad material in place. The only problem is they start hitting the rotor at 5mm of thickness. (pads). The pads only start with 10mm of thickness.

No wonder the front brakes wear out so fast.

Aren't these rivets supposed to send the electrical signal so that you know that you're supposed to change brakes? ;)

DHall1

January 31st, 2009, 02:12

Yeah, these studs start to contact the rotor. Thats why we hear this grinding like metal to metal as we just come to a stop. The whole pad is not wore out at all. 50% of the material is still there. But, these studs start to scrape across the rotor.

Hmmm, I dont like it. 10mm thick pads when new. At 5mm these studs start to scrape. There is 1/2 the pad thickness left.

the rivets are also what "damages" your rotors. annoying as hell.

DuckWingDuck

January 31st, 2009, 02:37

does brembo make pads?

DHall1

January 31st, 2009, 03:49

The stock pads are Pagid.... there are numbers there but I really didnt take note. I may have some time this weekend to finish the job and "dig" into the stock pads alittle further.

I will take a hammer/punch and knock out the brake pad material to reveal what these "pins" are really part of.

I assume these pins are part of the backing plate to form a network or framework when the pad material is stuck to the backing plate. I dont like it if thats the case.

In reality what we have here are 5mm worth of pad material to burn. That is not much. When you combine that with the aggressive pad material that literally eats the rotor surface. You end up with guys that get 6,000 miles out of brake pads. Again, not good

does brembo make pads?

Aronis

February 1st, 2009, 00:03

so if the pad light comes on you need to change them ASAP? I was told I had 15,000 miles left on them!

Mike

hahnmgh63

February 1st, 2009, 02:20

Anyone know if the EBC pads have the rivets? Most of the better pads are bonded nowadays. I'll have to check my EBC's as they are probably getting down there, if not I'll have to drive harder as I have a new set of pads & rotors just waiting to get on the car and showoff their newness.

DHall1

February 1st, 2009, 02:57

Mike,

From the hands on looks of things. No way do you have 15k after the light comes on. Its already worn past these pins or rivets well before the light comes on.

As I noted. 5mm of pad material left and I can see these pins just starting to show thru. Still no where near the brake sensor coming on.

Who ever told you that should be shot. Again, I will snap some pics tomorrow.

so if the pad light comes on you need to change them ASAP? I was told I had 15,000 miles left on them!

Mike

DHall1

February 1st, 2009, 02:58

Thats also a question I had. Hard to tell from new EBC pads if there are studs in there.

Again, we are starting from 10mm of pad thickness on the EBC. Time will tell.

Anyone know if the EBC pads have the rivets? Most of the better pads are bonded nowadays. I'll have to check my EBC's as they are probably getting down there, if not I'll have to drive harder as I have a new set of pads & rotors just waiting to get on the car and showoff their newness.

DHall1

February 2nd, 2009, 14:51

Ok,

Here are some pics. In the pics you can clearly see the bronze pin that I am talking about. You can also see the 5mm of thickness and the brake sensors have not come on yet.

Piss poor design of a brake pad.

Also, you can see the Audi stamp and Pagid pn

Sorry about the "blue man" hand. ;-)

Nope, there is a sensor that is in 1 pad only. When that sensor hits...you get the light.

These look like 'studs" to hold the pad material in place. The only problem is they start hitting the rotor at 5mm of thickness. (pads). The pads only start with 10mm of thickness.

No wonder the front brakes wear out so fast.

hahnmgh63

February 2nd, 2009, 18:35

I'm glad I replaced my stock pads before they got to that point.

mmaturo

February 2nd, 2009, 19:20

Ok,

Here are some pics. In the pics you can clearly see the bronze pin that I am talking about. You can also see the 5mm of thickness and the brake sensors have not come on yet.

Piss poor design of a brake pad.

Also, you can see the Audi stamp and Pagid pn

Sorry about the "blue man" hand. ;-)

Well that does explain the slight metal on metal feel i get when pads are going down. No wonder the rotors get a surface that resembles beach dunes.

DuckWingDuck

February 2nd, 2009, 21:51

ya, it's a REALLY stupid design.

DHall1

February 2nd, 2009, 23:33

Exactly. There are about 5 or 6 of these brass metal pins in each pad. Get those bad boys scraping across a x drilled rotor and its a party to see who can groove the biggest valley.

Crazy that this happens with 50% of the pad left.

Well that does explain the slight metal on metal feel i get when pads are going down. No wonder the rotors get a surface that resembles beach dunes.

DHall1

February 2nd, 2009, 23:35

Yep, as you can see in the pics. Mine were just starting to scrape. I could just start to hear them. I pulled the wheels and inspected all 8 pads from the outside of the caliper. I could see 50% of the pad material and thought to myself. "Oh, these are fine. Must be the design of the pad that make this noise."

Boy was I wrong and glad I didnt wait any longer.

I'm glad I replaced my stock pads before they got to that point.

hahnmgh63

February 3rd, 2009, 04:35

Are we sure it is brass? Maybe real pure brass or copper which is soft is the conducting material for the low pad sensors? If someone has a set they could try scraping it and see if it is any harder or softer than the pad material.

DHall1

February 3rd, 2009, 04:43

Hard to say. There are 6 pins in each pad. There is only 1 sensor in each 4 pad side. Pins are in each pad with or without the sensor.

You can see in the pic how the head of the pin starts to mushroom as it contacts the rotor. That is the grinding. Tough call if its softer than the pad material. I dont think it is. I can scrape mine later and let you all know.

Are we sure it is brass? Maybe real pure brass or copper which is soft is the conducting material for the low pad sensors? If someone has a set they could try scraping it and see if it is any harder or softer than the pad material.

mmaturo

February 3rd, 2009, 04:50

Probably not copper or brass to avoid galvanic action with the plate, back plate or calipers, then again i don't know what the plate is made out of off hand. But to me it looks like the plate and the posts are cast as one out of the same metal. <edit> Having just got my hands really dirty after i remembered i have a set of worn yellow stuff EBCs I can say 100% the EBC's are bonded and no studs as one set of my old fronts is down to 3mm or so and there is nothing.

DuckWingDuck

February 3rd, 2009, 05:34

the damned studs are probably there so audi can rip us off by saying we need new rotors!!!

GEN XER

February 3rd, 2009, 06:02

Is there an alternative pad out there?

DHall1

February 3rd, 2009, 06:08

EBC Reds

http://rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17593

Look down 4 lines.

Is there an alternative pad out there?

DHall1

February 3rd, 2009, 06:11

Its not really anyones fault...er its prob Pagids fault now that I think about it. Its 2003 era design. The Brembo calipers had a fixed width. You can only fit so much brake pad, rotor, brakepad material between the fixed width. The rotors needed to be as thick as poss to keep from warping every time you did a canyon run. So, the pads were not as thick.

Its Pagids fault for a crappy design on the stock pads. I blame Pagid.

Idiots. They had no idea that rotors cost us 800 dollars a pop. Idiots

the damned studs are probably there so audi can rip us off by saying we need new rotors!!!

GEN XER

February 3rd, 2009, 15:43

EBC Reds

http://rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17593

Look down 4 lines.

If I read those posts right, the pad material is glued on instead of affixed whatever way it is with the OE pads? There is also some modding of the pads required?

DHall1

February 3rd, 2009, 15:52

2 things

Audi pads are made by Pagid. You only get 5mm of wear before the metal pins start to scrape the rotor. The metal pins(seen in the pics) are there to help hold the pad inplace. The pad is also glued to the backing plate.

IMHO. Crappy design to have these pins hit the rotor before the brake sensor hits the rotor. Brakes can wear out as soon as 6,000 miles depending on how you drive. Its rare to get much more than 13k if your taking it easy.

EBC pads are an option. Mileage may vary...time will tell. But the pads are 1/4th the price of new Audi pads so thats a no brainer. And, you have to file alittle material from the backing plate. 1mm topps. No big deal.

If I read those posts right, the pad material is glued on instead of affixed whatever way it is with the OE pads? There is also some modding of the pads required?

Yellow RS6

February 5th, 2009, 18:14

Dhall - do you have a link to where you bought the EBCs? Thx.

DHall1

February 5th, 2009, 18:50

http://rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17035&page=2

Post #33

Dhall - do you have a link to where you bought the EBCs? Thx.

bodni98

February 6th, 2009, 13:26

What's the difference between the reds and yellows? I don't take my cars to the track anymore. I apologize if this has been answered in the prior posts.

DuckWingDuck

February 6th, 2009, 14:38

yellow is ebc's track pad

bodni98

February 6th, 2009, 14:59

Do you know of a good mechanic in Southern California?

DHall1

February 6th, 2009, 16:44

Hey,

Can you make this meet on the 28th? Were going to have 6-7 maybe 8 RS6s on this drive along the mtns.

http://rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17563

And Greg is hooked up pretty good at his dealer.

Do you know of a good mechanic in Southern California?

bodni98

February 6th, 2009, 18:07

sorry - i will be out of the country! next time.:hihi: Enjoy you guyshttp://www.rs6.com/forum/../smilies/rs6addict.gif

DuckWingDuck

February 6th, 2009, 19:47

Ya, my technician at my dealership is pretty good but of course, like ALL mechanics, they do work on the side. When you're back in town, give me a shout, I think we have each other's contact information, come on down.

GEN XER

February 6th, 2009, 20:29

So all these lines/ grooves in my rotors mean Im to late. LOL. They still have a lot of pad left like you say but I got a lot of rotor wear and squeal. Thats just terrible. I dont have any vibrations or shakes though and they still bit hard. I can deal with the noise as long as they perform I guess for a while. We had this same problem on our SRT8's I had groves in my rotors 300 miles after I purchased the car. Chrysler finally went to a new rotor and pads after a while and it fixed the issues. I went with Posi-Quiet Pads and never had an issue again. I dont think they make pads for the RS6 though. Im trying to get in contact with them now to see if they would look into doing something for us though.

DHall1

February 6th, 2009, 20:53

Have you been following this thread and my EBC thread?

I posted data, results, pics, more pics and more pics.

Yes, your stock pads will start to grind when there is plenty of outside pad visible. Those pins are scraping and causing grooves. If you wait too long...you will buy rotors to go along with your EBC pads.....to the tune of nearly 2,000 dollars. Thats if you buy the Audi rotors at mailorder discount and do the work yourself.

If you catch it early. You can replace all 4 brakes and resurface the rotors for as little as 265 dollars if you do it yourself.

I did and my car is perfect. EBC reds are fine.

So all these lines/ grooves in my rotors mean Im to late. LOL. They still have a lot of pad left like you say but I got a lot of rotor wear and squeal. Thats just terrible. I dont have any vibrations or shakes though and they still bit hard. I can deal with the noise as long as they perform I guess for a while. We had this same problem on our SRT8's I had groves in my rotors 300 miles after I purchased the car. Chrysler finally went to a new rotor and pads after a while and it fixed the issues. I went with Posi-Quiet Pads and never had an issue again. I dont think they make pads for the RS6 though. Im trying to get in contact with them now to see if they would look into doing something for us though. If I can show ZeckHausen some numbers he may get us a pad thay works better than the EBC'c or the OE's.

GEN XER

February 7th, 2009, 02:28

I got the car this way. Im going to have to start over. You cant win them all.

Have you been following this thread and my EBC thread?

I posted data, results, pics, more pics and more pics.

Yes, your stock pads will start to grind when there is plenty of outside pad visible. Those pins are scraping and causing grooves. If you wait too long...you will buy rotors to go along with your EBC pads.....to the tune of nearly 2,000 dollars. Thats if you buy the Audi rotors at mailorder discount and do the work yourself.

If you catch it early. You can replace all 4 brakes and resurface the rotors for as little as 265 dollars if you do it yourself.

I did and my car is perfect. EBC reds are fine.

DuckWingDuck

February 7th, 2009, 03:09

take a look at your rotors, they may not be beyond resurfacing. I know purists frown on that but seriously, $1200 for rotors? Eff that noise!

GEN XER

February 8th, 2009, 00:55

The rears are fine. The fronts look like they are to far gone. Ill take a pic and show you. Ill take it to a shop to see if it can be turned. Will the dealer do it?

DHall1

February 8th, 2009, 02:12

Dealer will not turn the rotors.

I assume you can do the teardown work. Pretty straightforward.

Find a good shop that will chuck up the rotors straight and give it a go. Measure the rotors first to see if there is any meat left to resurface. They cut very easy and take as little off as poss.

Put up some pics

The rears are fine. The fronts look like they are to far gone. Ill take a pic and show you. Ill take it to a shop to see if it can be turned. Will the dealer do it?

bodni98

April 6th, 2009, 23:41

I just bought the Red EBC brake pads and about to install them. Just to confirm that they will not scrap the rotors like the OEM parts. Thanks.

DHall1

April 7th, 2009, 00:52

Mine are wearing nice and smooth....2k miles and several hard runs including the Mulholland run last month.

Rotors are baby butt smooth.

Make sure you bed the pads properly after the break in material is worn off in 50 miles.

I just bought the Red EBC brake pads and about to install them. Just to confirm that they will not scrap the rotors like the OEM parts. Thanks.

DHall1

September 22nd, 2009, 16:17

Bump,

We have had several recent requests for this information.

So to update. The EBC reds are wearing smooth as silk 8 months down the road with a couple DE events thrown in for good measure.

Read up on the whole thread.
:addict:

bodni98

October 1st, 2009, 01:47

After replacing the pads with the EBC reds - they have been squeaking when the car comes to a final stop. Anyone experiencing similar problem? It's been over 2000 miles.

cornishmoocher

October 1st, 2009, 03:50

Guys, the pins are "squeel" pins. As bizarre as it sounds they are there to tell you that when the brakes start to squeel, you are running low and need to change them. I shit you not.........

Spidercat

October 1st, 2009, 07:32

You are shitting me, because mine are worn down to nubbins and I never noticed any squeal!

Seriously, though, I think they could've engineered THAT one a little better, since everyone's rotors get scored to crap at 50% pad wear! Like maybe, I don't know, a brake pad sensor???Unless that was the beauty of the plan all along to keep the rotor supplier in business...

DHall1

October 1st, 2009, 07:48

Did you bed the pads in properly?

Were new rotors used, used or resurfaced used?

60mph....hard braking to 10mph....accel up to 60...hard brake to 10. Do this 6 times and go for a 30 minute easy hwy drive.

No stopping between each 6 slows and no stopping in the 30min cool down.

After replacing the pads with the EBC reds - they have been squeaking when the car comes to a final stop. Anyone experiencing similar problem? It's been over 2000 miles.

rle55

December 1st, 2009, 15:45

Hi, when you replace the pads/rotors? how do you reset the brake light beaming on the instrument cluster:-)

rle55

December 1st, 2009, 15:53

Also, has anybody bought OEM parts from ECS tuning? i will be changing my brake rotors and pads...i eally would like to know w/c phaeton brake rotors to get? and brake pad recommendations. ( i'm thinking going w/ expensive brake pads(Pagid vs EBC red) if i can really use the phaeton rotors...) or if it will have any difference.?? lastly, if you other web places that are cheaper and have great experience appreciate it! btw, - any good shops in CT/NY/NJ???

here is the website:

www.ecstuning.com

THANKS!
Ronnie

DuckWingDuck

December 2nd, 2009, 02:26

I don't think you can use phaeton rotors.... But I'm not sure. EBC reds is always the way to go, do a search for the reasons why the oem pagid suck ass (the brass pins that will just chew up your rotors)

and I think partsbin has a good price on the ebcs. As I'm one to say, search is your friend.

DHall1

December 2nd, 2009, 03:03

Stock RS6 rotors from discount audivwparts
EBC Red pads
Phaeton backing plates/ducts from Grizz.

That is the best bang for the buck.

Also, has anybody bought OEM parts from ECS tuning? i will be changing my brake rotors and pads...i eally would like to know w/c phaeton brake rotors to get? and brake pad recommendations. ( i'm thinking going w/ expensive brake pads(Pagid vs EBC red) if i can really use the phaeton rotors...) or if it will have any difference.?? lastly, if you other web places that are cheaper and have great experience appreciate it! btw, - any good shops in CT/NY/NJ???

here is the website:

www.ecstuning.com (http://www.ecstuning.com)

THANKS!
Ronnie

rle55

December 2nd, 2009, 13:11

thanks all!!!

rle55

December 2nd, 2009, 13:14

Dhall,

can you give the link?

RS6VA

December 3rd, 2009, 15:35

Funny thing.

At 5mm of thickness there appears to be "rivets" or some sort of metal pins appearing on the brake pad material.

This rivet could be the source of added "grinding" experienced by so many. Myself included.

Also of note, the brand new Red EBC pads are only 10mm thick.

Therefore, at around 50% thickness you get these rivets that start to scrape the rotors and could cause the grinding we all hear.

More later

I read this thread last night, checked my rotors this morning and sure enough you can feel two very slight grooves in the rotors. Of course the dealer told me that brakes still had half their life. Ordering pads today - thanks for the notice.

DHall1

December 3rd, 2009, 16:04

Glad to see new members finding these threads.

Nice job.

I read this thread last night, checked my rotors this morning and sure enough you can feel two very slight grooves in the rotors. Of course the dealer told me that brakes still had half their life. Ordering pads today - thanks for the notice.