Nissan GTR vs. Corvette ZR1 comparison out on Nürburgrings long straight...

[Ruergard]

So, here's a synced video between the cars out on the straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjk92atTANc

Is this GTR really stock?

480 (?) hp, awd and a lot of kg's.

vs.

640 hp, rwd and not that much kg's.

I'm not that good at math, but this just doesn't make sense... :vhmmm:

Here's the whole track synced between them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuKB9J3-BI8

So, let's hear it. Somebody please explain this! :applause:

[Leadfoot]

If you look for this discussion on almost all the GTRs based site among others there is very different opinions on why things look in this video the way they do. It's whether you believe that Nissan used a stock GTR or not, if you think the answer is yes then you could argue that the ZR1 didn't maintain full throttle the entire time or even joined the straight at the same speed as the GTR, but if you believe the opposite and Nissan were cheating then you could say there is no way a stock GTR can keep up with a ZR1 on any straight piece of road. Though without a speed reading in the GTR footage we will never known whether Godzilla was indeed exiting the corner that much quicker.

Frankly I don't give a f#@k because the arguments seem to run for pages and pages with neither side giving an inch.

[KK265]

So, here's a synced video between the cars out on the straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjk92atTANc

Is this GTR really stock?

480 (?) hp, awd and a lot of kg's.

vs.

640 hp, rwd and not that much kg's.

I'm not that good at math, but this just doesn't make sense... :vhmmm:

Here's the whole track synced between them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuKB9J3-BI8

So, let's hear it. Somebody please explain this! :applause:
I think you are right.Seems GTR is a little bit quicker.Look at the time when passes below the big advertisements.

[mdk]

It might be my eyes but
-if the GT-R is at the bottom screen then it's 2+ seconds slower in the race
-moreover, timers are not so synced after all with various "changes" during the playback (check with few pauses and you will see one time ZR1 being a bit forward and then the GT-R). As far as I know time is a constant and measured in seconds all over the world. Meaning that if ZR1 playback timer is 0.45 seconds forward then should maintain this difference through out which is not the case; which in turn makes me wonder for the credibility of such studio-manipulated-video-comparisons.

[Leadfoot]

:doh:
It might be my eyes but
-if the GT-R is at the bottom screen then it's 2+ seconds slower in the race
-moreover, timers are not so synced after all with various "changes" during the playback (check with few pauses and you will see one time ZR1 being a bit forward and then the GT-R). As far as I know time is a constant and measured in seconds all over the world. Meaning that if ZR1 playback timer is 0.45 seconds forward then should maintain this difference through out which is not the case; which in turn makes me wonder for the credibility of such studio-manipulated-video-comparisons.

I never noticed the difference in the timers, that is very interesting to know. It might mean that one side is trying to make the other look like they are cheating.

I do know this, I have watched this comparison between the two and ones conducted by Motortrend and itlooks like the two comparisons are very similar.

[Z07]

If you watch the ZR1's performance on the opposite side of the track you'll see it accelerates way faster - explanation, wind. Based on the performance of other cars, the ZR1 should have been making 185 to 190mph on that straight.

Also, if you look at the ZR1's speed it isn't accelerating anywhere near as fast as it did during the 205mph run on that oval.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdZ4YYlNjmM

Did the driver have his foot fully down? It's possible he backed off a bit fearing the corner.

You'll also note that the ZR1 loses about 3mph during the upshift, which is why dual-clutch rules.

You will also note that from the bridge to the finish the GTR is faster through the final bends. But this is no shame since it was also 1s faster the the Zonda F CS over this final sector. This also explains and proves why the GTR is so fast even over a high speed circuit. Stability FTW. See how the GTR pulls 1s on it within just 20s.;)

ZR1 finishes at 7:26.4 (21.5 despite being nearer to bridge), GTR (20.6)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/Z07x10/zr1owna.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/Z07x10/zr1own.jpg

ACR finishes at 7:22.1 (21.4)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/Z07x10/acrown-1.jpg

Zonda F CS finishes at 7:27.8 (21.8)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/Z07x10/fcsown.jpg


So if you're diving into a pack of ever tightening S-bends off a hill at 180mph, nothing does it better than a GTR.

You'll also see that the ZR1 is maybe 60-70m ahead at the bridge. That's about all an average of an extra 5mph (2.2m/s) adds up to after 30s and the GTR wipes that clean away before they've reached the finish. You'll also hear that the ZR1 has to lift sooner.

Ladies and gentlemen, the defence rests its case.

[KK265]

ZR1 is quicker than GTR in straight line for sure


http://videos.streetfire.net/video/2009-ZR1-Spanks-GTR-599_195900.htm

[Z07]

ZR1 is quicker than GTR in straight line for sure


http://videos.streetfire.net/video/2009-ZR1-Spanks-GTR-599_195900.htm

Yep. That's just about the same as the distance difference in the first photgraph. So what's Ruergard's point again?

[mdk]

My point was that this synced video generates doubts. But having examined the video more closely I now have no doubts... the timer on GT-R is "unreliable" (or the video maker is).

The bottom timer (GT-R) misses some time. It goes to sleep. It wakes up back to same digits!

I am sure that if an expert study the whole video he will come up with numerous similar occasions where the timers are manipulated within the video stills. Since time is a worldwide constant then timer-digits are altered manually.

Go through the screen shots and read my comments ...
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4666/zr1gtrbo7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[KK265]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumb: :thumb:
Something is wrong with Nissan's releases...
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=27145

[Leadfoot]

Z07,

Thanks for taking the time to give a more in depth explanation as to why the GTR is as quick as it is on the short video comparison of that straight section and why it seems to defy all logic in comparison to both it's weight and performance.

Though the only thing that still bugs me is the fact no one else has gotten close to matching Nissan's time in other GTRs. Even if they got to within a 8~12 seconds of that time, like is the case with what Audi themselves got with the RS4 in comparison to the official time by SportAuto (7:58 - 8:09 = 11s).

On another subject, has anyone noticed the SA time for the LP560, it's 7:52 which is a full 13 seconds slower than the F430 Scuderia and 20 seconds slower than the Porsche GT2, two cars which else where the Gallardo is quicker, not only in lap times but in acceleration.

WTF is wrong with it's ring time? :confused:

[KK265]

Allthough mdk according to my time counter this video is correct
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBZ5i15yVU8
P.S Leadfoot I wonder the same thing.

[Leadfoot]

Allthough mdk according to my time counter this video is correct
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBZ5i15yVU8
P.S Leadfoot I wonder the same thing.

I too have just checked the Nissan clock with a stopwatch and everything appears in order.

Also that is one might committed lap, after watching the only other non Nissan lap of the ring, conducted by Driver Republic there little doubt that huge chunks of time could have been made up, Chris Harris was not nearly as committed as Suzuki was. Their completed lap was 7:56.

[Z07]

Z07,

Thanks for taking the time to give a more in depth explanation as to why the GTR is as quick as it is on the short video comparison of that straight section and why it seems to defy all logic in comparison to both it's weight and performance.

Though the only thing that still bugs me is the fact no one else has gotten close to matching Nissan's time in other GTRs. Even if they got to within a 8~12 seconds of that time, like is the case with what Audi themselves got with the RS4 in comparison to the official time by SportAuto (7:58 - 8:09 = 11s).

On another subject, has anyone noticed the SA time for the LP560, it's 7:52 which is a full 13 seconds slower than the F430 Scuderia and 20 seconds slower than the Porsche GT2, two cars which else where the Gallardo is quicker, not only in lap times but in acceleration.

WTF is wrong with it's ring time? :confused:
The LP560's 'ring time proves the point further. Elsewhere it's faster, or at least as fast as a Scuderia, with SA it wasn't. Different day, different air density, different grip levels, less perfect lap. No lap of the 'ring is ever perfect, or even as close as an expert might get to a perfect lap on a shorter track but some laps are more perfect than others. Some drivers are just better suited to some car configurations. The SA driver seems more adapted to Porsches, which favour slow-in and fast out tactics. With a circuit as intimidating as the 'ring, a fast(er)-in approach may seem daunting to some.

Both GTR and LP560 have proven to be close competition for the GT2 elsewhere but have failed in the hands of SA. The LP560 is a close match for the GT2's power-weight ratio, so clearly the SA 'ring times are more about their driving and nothing to do with Nissan cheating to overcome their low power-weight ratio.

Many say that the 'ring favour high power-weight but it doesn't really, not anymore than another track. The only thing it does favour is higher power to some degree but that only goes so far. This is the reason why many sub-200bhp, 500kg lightweight specials perform poorly on the 'ring despite performing amazingly on shorter tracks. The 'ring is a high speed track and favours high power more than PWR as this gives cars the ability to accelerate strongly at high speeds. That said it only goes so far. With 400bhp there are many flat-out sections. With 500bhp there are less such sections and more braking to be done. With 600bhp, it becomes more complicated still particularly if your car is short on stability and handling traits. This is why the CCX (920bhp) is slower than the Enzo, Zonda F CS, MC12, ZR1 etc.

[Z07]

Allthough mdk according to my time counter this video is correct
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBZ5i15yVU8
P.S Leadfoot I wonder the same thing.
The timer does do funny things when it transitions to the next second but that a characteristic of the timer.

If you click pause off and on repeatedly roughly every 0.2s, the reading temporarily goes to 2:00 instead of 3:00 but then immediately goes to 3.21. This explains mdk's photo. It's an issue with the timing display not the timing and the issue is consistent through the lap. If Nissan had cut the video every second, as this would appear to indicate, it would be unwatchable from a quality perspective and clearly visible in the picture.

As proof, look at the YouTube timer. It starts at 0:20 and finishes at 7:49 -> 7:29. Alternatively use your own stop watch.

[Leadfoot]

The LP560's 'ring time proves the point further. Elsewhere it's faster, or at least as fast as a Scuderia, with SA it wasn't. Different day, different air density, different grip levels, less perfect lap. No lap of the 'ring is ever perfect, or even as close as an expert might get to a perfect lap on a shorter track but some laps are more perfect than others. Some drivers are just better suited to some car configurations. The SA driver seems more adapted to Porsches, which favour slow-in and fast out tactics. With a circuit as intimidating as the 'ring, a fast(er)-in approach may seem daunting to some.

Both GTR and LP560 have proven to be close competition for the GT2 elsewhere but have failed in the hands of SA. The LP560 is a close match for the GT2's power-weight ratio, so clearly the SA 'ring times are more about their driving and nothing to do with Nissan cheating to overcome their low power-weight ratio.

Many say that the 'ring favour high power-weight but it doesn't really, not anymore than another track. The only thing it does favour is higher power to some degree but that only goes so far. This is the reason why many sub-200bhp, 500kg lightweight specials perform poorly on the 'ring despite performing amazingly on shorter tracks. The 'ring is a high speed track and favours high power more than PWR as this gives cars the ability to accelerate strongly at high speeds. That said it only goes so far. With 400bhp there are many flat-out sections. With 500bhp there are less such sections and more braking to be done. With 600bhp, it becomes more complicated still particularly if your car is short on stability and handling traits. This is why the CCX (920bhp) is slower than the Enzo, Zonda F CS, MC12, ZR1 etc.

I see where you are coming from with this opinion. The weather and driver preferences could greatly determine how good any of these cars will perform on the day. Horst of SportAuto seems to perform well in rwd cars but less so in awd ones.

Also PWR doesn't seem to have to same effect on the ring in comparison to other shorter circuits. I would agree that there is probably a sweet point in terms of power and weight for the course and that the number of driven wheels has more of a bearing on this. What I meant to say is that with 600hp and only the rear wheels controlling the amount of traction there is less of a chance to use all of this power and in fact could possibly become a hinderance on such a bumpy course. I would be of the opinion that a 600hp awd car wouldn't suffer the same problems and if the ZR1 was such equipped it's lap time would be even more amazing.

I just don't know whether to believe the time of the GTR or not, I do believe that it's well inside that of SportAuto and Driver Republic's times but does that mean it is truly possible of knocking a full 22+ seconds off those times is another question. I wait patiently for someone to get a lot close to this 7:29 time for I am fully convinced. In much the same way as I am not so sure the R8v10 is capable of posting a time in the mid to high seven thirties, my heart says yes but my mind is undecided.