stripped down s8 , anyone done it ??

[garbi]

hey guys , as you know , i love tracking my cars but i'm becoming quite nervious doing more upgrades to my rs6 because of the tranny , i've even been researching sequential gearbox's , but still nothing.
so i also have an A8 ( 1998 , 4.2 v8 )which i use everyday which i'm thinking of tracking instead .
stripping down and changing to manual gearbox would have to be done.
i have already worked the motor and suspension so its pretty strong but i'm sure that this car can become quite lite due to its alluminium chassis and it its interior panels etc being heavy.

anyone done this ?
at present the car weighs 1825 kg , how much lighter can it become ?
also the manual gearbox ? any advise ?

thanks
garbi

[Mr Balsen]

to change to manual gearbox, you will need to change the engine if you think to use an Audi manual gearbox...

Frederic

[AndyBG]

to change to manual gearbox, you will need to change the engine if you think to use an Audi manual gearbox...

Frederic

Are you sure...?

D2 A8 4.2 was avaliable with manuall 'box.

Are differences so big, that you can't put manual in it?

[Mr Balsen]

Are you sure...?

D2 A8 4.2 was avaliable with manuall 'box.

Are differences so big, that you can't put manual in it?

Available but engine block was not the same between both...

Frederic

[TheBrit]

Not a manual conversion, but Botang and Tobes over on TSN (http://www.tyresmoke.net/forum/audi-a8-s8/) have stripped down an A8 for tracking.

[DHall1]

If your dead set on running the RS6....I would keep doing it.

If the trans does go....then send it to IPT or Level 10 and have it upgraded.

As a matter of fact. You should get the MTM chip for the trans right now before it goes south.

And, you should send the valve body to Level 10 for the upgrade right now. I can tell you that the Level 10 valve body upgrade is well worth the money as I have had some of thier work.

Hope this helps


hey guys , as you know , i love tracking my cars but i'm becoming quite nervious doing more upgrades to my rs6 because of the tranny , i've even been researching sequential gearbox's , but still nothing.
so i also have an A8 ( 1998 , 4.2 v8 )which i use everyday which i'm thinking of tracking instead .
stripping down and changing to manual gearbox would have to be done.
i have already worked the motor and suspension so its pretty strong but i'm sure that this car can become quite lite due to its alluminium chassis and it its interior panels etc being heavy.

anyone done this ?
at present the car weighs 1825 kg , how much lighter can it become ?
also the manual gearbox ? any advise ?

thanks
garbi

[hahnmgh63]

DHall1, did you do the valve body on your RS6? I have heard good and bad about Level 10, Nothing good or bad about IPT, I've just seen their website. But with the KW's done, the tranny is the last weak point to deal with.

[hahnmgh63]

I just got my TCU back from Hoppen (MTM Chip) but haven't been able to test it out as we got a dump of snow. The first time the chip install was bad and I had to send the TCU back to Hoppen. This time it seems to be OK as I did a scan of the TCU after install with VagCom. The first time VagCom couldn't even find the TCU module, so I'm doing better so far. Just put new plugs and air filters in while it was off the road, went with IK20 ND Iridiums. Replaced a few vacuum lines under the hood with Silicone lines. Why can't the factory use quality silicone lines, the cloth covered rubber ones just don't stand up to age & heat.

[DHall1]

Question on the Denso plugs. Are the IK20s spec for the RS6? Let us know how they do.

I have always used Denso Iridiums on all my vehicles. When it comes time to change the RS...I will use them as well.




I just got my TCU back from Hoppen (MTM Chip) but haven't been able to test it out as we got a dump of snow. The first time the chip install was bad and I had to send the TCU back to Hoppen. This time it seems to be OK as I did a scan of the TCU after install with VagCom. The first time VagCom couldn't even find the TCU module, so I'm doing better so far. Just put new plugs and air filters in while it was off the road, went with IK20 ND Iridiums. Replaced a few vacuum lines under the hood with Silicone lines. Why can't the factory use quality silicone lines, the cloth covered rubber ones just don't stand up to age & heat.

[DHall1]

Nope not on the RS6 yet.

I had installed the Level 10 valve body upgrade years ago on our 91 Supra Turbo. It was running about 400hp on a upgraded turbo kit running 24psi. The factory shift points were butter smooth which is not favorable for applying 400hp to the ground. I could never launch that car under full boost

After the Level10 install, I was able to turn up the boost all the way and launch the car properly. I can tell you the 1-2 upshift at 24psi was out of this world. The car would leave 50ft trail of two strips of black rubber every time after the 1-2 upshift. A trip for sure.

I thought for sure that trans would never last. But it did and I never had to send the rest of it to L10.

This was my wife's car. :thumb: Now after several years of luxury cruisers and the SUV...she is back in something with guts. She has the AMG. If your running around central Arizona and see the lady driving the Platinum Blue E55....dont mess with her. She can drive that beast. LOL


DHall1, did you do the valve body on your RS6? I have heard good and bad about Level 10, Nothing good or bad about IPT, I've just seen their website. But with the KW's done, the tranny is the last weak point to deal with.

[hahnmgh63]

I just put them in my 225bhp tt. It specs the same plug, Mass flow, and many other parts with the RS6. Of course it only uses half as many as the RS6. The IK20's are one heat range colder but recommended for chipped cars. I can't tell any difference in the tt. We'll see in the RS6. The Iridiums are a little newer design that the NGK's spec'd for our cars.

[garbi]

If your dead set on running the RS6....I would keep doing it.

If the trans does go....then send it to IPT or Level 10 and have it upgraded.

As a matter of fact. You should get the MTM chip for the trans right now before it goes south.

And, you should send the valve body to Level 10 for the upgrade right now. I can tell you that the Level 10 valve body upgrade is well worth the money as I have had some of thier work.

Hope this helps


thanks , but i'm in south africa.
i cant find any one willing to upgrade the tranny .

see my problem .

[DHall1]

Well, its easy to upgrade the MTM trans chip.

Its also easy to send your valve body to Level 10 in the USA.

Both items will gain huge performance in trans shifting.


thanks , but i'm in south africa.
i cant find any one willing to upgrade the tranny .

see my problem .

[hahnmgh63]

The MTM TCU chip upgrade through Hoppen Motorsports was only $100, pretty cheap upgrade. If you do the MTM engine chip, the TCU upgrade is included for free but I already have the Revo ECU flash upgrade.

[Mr Balsen]

Well, its easy to upgrade the MTM trans chip.

Its also easy to send your valve body to Level 10 in the USA.

Both items will gain huge performance in trans shifting.

Complete stupid question:

How easy is it to remove the valve body on the RS6 ?

You need to remove the gearbox and so on ???

Frederic

[DHall1]

Good question. I dont know on the Quattro. Maybe Grizz will see this thread. It should come right off after the pan is removed.


Complete stupid question:

How easy is it to remove the valve body on the RS6 ?

You need to remove the gearbox and so on ???

Frederic

[hahnmgh63]

The valve body is easily accessible with the transmission oil pan removed. I inspected mine while servicing the transmission filter. I may go ahead with the level 10 or IPT valve body now that I have done the MTM TCU upgrade. If the transmission goes later, hopefully the valve body will survive and that will be one less cost during the rebuild. Of course while doing the transmission work, cleanliness is alway important. Another thought is that the Torque Converter is the weakest link in our transmissions and that the Audi part is improved and there are improved aftermarket ones out there. But the transmission obviously needs to be removed for this upgrade so at that time, I think a complete tranny rebuild (Stronger) would be in order.

[garbi]

the tcu & ecu was done by dna(uk).
what is level 10 address link , maybe thats a thought to discuss with them further

[DHall1]

http://www.levelten.com/index.html

Please post the results of your talk with them and the prices.

Good luck


the tcu & ecu was done by dna(uk).
what is level 10 address link , maybe thats a thought to discuss with them further

[DHall1]

Its hard to say what goes first. Chicken or the egg situation.

If the valve body is easy to get to and covers the bases that would need to be covered anyways....its a clear start. More fluid volume into each of the clutch packs is always a good thing. Faster shifts, less slippage...is also a good thing. Like I said about our old Supra...the difference was amazing and the rest of the trans never failed.

Torque converter. cant really do anything about it without a complete tear down and engine removal. Its all in at that point.


The valve body is easily accessible with the transmission oil pan removed. I inspected mine while servicing the transmission filter. I may go ahead with the level 10 or IPT valve body now that I have done the MTM TCU upgrade. If the transmission goes later, hopefully the valve body will survive and that will be one less cost during the rebuild. Of course while doing the transmission work, cleanliness is alway important. Another thought is that the Torque Converter is the weakest link in our transmissions and that the Audi part is improved and there are improved aftermarket ones out there. But the transmission obviously needs to be removed for this upgrade so at that time, I think a complete tranny rebuild (Stronger) would be in order.

[Mr Balsen]

http://www.levelten.com/index.html

Please post the results of your talk with them and the prices.

Good luck

+1

I am very curious about the cost, time to upgrade it, quality of service and so on...

And really your feedback once modified

Frederic

[garbi]

i have pop them a mail for the valve body , lets wait and see.

[garbi]

Available but engine block was not the same between both...

Frederic

i'm sure that a adaptor plate could be made for it , i can it being a major job
???????

[BLACKTHUNDER]

http://www.motodyne.com/frames/audi_a8%20,a8l%20&s8.html

Players Run" 6spd

<HR width="95%">Automatic to manual conversion "Players Run" driveline package rated to 575hp.

For all our North American clients, MotoDyne is happy to bring you a manual gearbox.

Our European friends were having all the fun until now. Since our power adding packages are pushing the A8 and S8 past Audis RS6, we feel a 6spd gearbox is only right.

Our conversion includes:


ZF 6spd gearbox


Clutch and brake pedal


Hydraulic clutch master and slave cylinder


Front CV shafts


Neutral safety switch


Drive shaft


MotoDyne lightened 04, s4 flywheel,


Clutch pack complete with pilot bearing


Complete instructions on how to remove the automatic shifter tunnel cover, and program the AC and idle control to match the European manual specifications for perfect idle quality



Price: $12,495.00

[Mr Balsen]

I like to know how many people have done the modifications....

Frederic

[garbi]

at least someone is doing it to an a8 ,even though it cost more then the car and then some . i just cant believe that the rs6 is such a story to do.
what is the main problem with matching a manual box to the rs6? is it the electronics ?is it that hard.
i'm even thinking of matching a box and running it only on rear wheel drive .
garbi

[Mr Balsen]

at least someone is doing it to an a8 ,even though it cost more then the car and then some . i just cant believe that the rs6 is such a story to do.
what is the main problem with matching a manual box to the rs6? is it the electronics ?is it that hard.
i'm even thinking of matching a box and running it only on rear wheel drive .
garbi

What I can tell you from MTM Experience (mainly based on RS6 Clubsport Prototype):

- Gearbox internals must be strong enough to survive V8 twin turbo torque and power
- Specific Clutch system needs to survive same treatment
- Engine ECU needs to be remap to work without automatic gearbox
- Everything from ABS/ESP must be readjusted accordingly

anyway it is not an easy job....
Otherwise everybody and not only MTM will have done it...

Frederic

[garbi]

i'm sure youre right.
i think the ecu is the hardest part.

they should have just put in a toureg auto box-750--850nm

[TheBrit]

http://www.motodyne.com/frames/audi_a8%20,a8l%20&s8.html

That's a name that I've heard many a time before. Just sayin' (http://search.audiworld.com/?q=MotoDyne&u=&s=all&db=1999-01-01&de=2009-01-02)...

[Mr Balsen]

That's a name that I've heard many a time before.

I am happy you wrote it because I was not 100% sure. But yes I heard it far too many time either....

Frederic

[audirs6sport]

the tranny chip will not strengthen the tranny. believe me, i have had two tranny swaps before, one on each rs6 that i've owned, and i have tried the mtm and giac. there is no way that a chip will ever strengthen the physical characterstics of the mechanism inside the transmission. this is literally impossible. only thing that could be achieved from an alteration to the tcu software is change in it's behavior.

i've heard few complaints about levelten's upgrade packages from local buddies (mostly from b5 s4 tips) that the gearshifting feels harsh, and the stall rate that they promised and expected was not delivered.

seriously, if money is not the issue, best possible thing to do is contact champion motorsports, and inquire about possibly purchasing the tranny from their raced out version of the rs6. http://www.championracing.net/Audi_RS6/archive/RS6_2004/04LSprac.htm i've actually asked them before about purchasing their widebody parts, and they told me that it is possible to get them... (so im assuming other parts can be purchased as well)

i know for a fact, since last time i've spoken with them that they have a six speed manual transmission installed on their beast. i would assume they have obviously done their homework and got the system down. also from what i've heard is that it is actually a b5 s4 transmission, completely rebuilt.
:cheers:


:rs6kiss: :rs6kiss: :rs6kiss: :rs6kiss:

[garbi]

isn't there any one that can write the software for the manual box.
the conversion is not to hard to do , just the software(ecu) needs to be reprogramed.

[Kram]

We are going to try it here on the Blackthunder's car. He bought a S8 manual and we will try to transplant that to his biturboed automatic S8.

In the worst case scenario he will need to use the manual car's ECU and then reprogram it for turbo use with the maps that he already have.

[PeterJohn]

You can buy a least 5 dedicated track cars (caterham, ultima,...) for the amount of money it will cost to bring your luxury sedan up to that performance level. A member did the MTM manual conversion on a 600hp Sportec RS6 sedan for €50k. That's double what an RS6 of that generation now costs. A car savvy police man spotted the unautherised conversion (Switzerland), and he had to deport the car.

Not to mention the time and headache saved when you buy a track ready car, versus trying to engineer one yourself from various bits found on the internet.

It would a an interesting project, but if I were you, I'd just get a tow hook for that Audi, buy a car trailer and a Caterham.

[Mr Balsen]

But you can not use an Caterham or Ultima everyday. after it is up to everybody to figure out which car you are looking for.

On my side, the day you see a trailer + tow hook, you really really need to worry about my mental health....

Frederic

[Klint]

Think there was a guy down Brazil way who done some crazy mods to his A8. Think he went twin turbo on it. Not sure if he updated rs6.com with the details at the time or not!

[Kram]

The men is the member blackthunder that posted here above.
I am trying him to swap his gearbox and sky rocket the power of the engine to 700hp range.

If you look to his avatar you could see the intercoolers!

[Richard]

garbi,

Check a company called vast performance in the U.S.
They can do manual transmission swaps or upgrade the Auto tranny for ya.

www.vastperformance.com
http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2885970.phtml

[Kram]

Just updating as I think it is good news for some.

We swapped the transmission from Audi S8 Manual to another Audi S8 Automatic. It was much easier than the people thinks of.
From the donor car we took the transmission, front CVs and wiring. Just that.
Once connected, everything worked as it was manufactured to be in the other car. No need for new ECU, or adaptations on anything.

And remembering, the S8 is biturboed!

The owner is running low boost (0,55bar~8psi), but the car already show improvements. It run neck a neck with a 360CS at any speed. The next goal is to use 0,8bar.