Audi R8 V10 unveiled

[itisme]

read here:

worldcarfans.com (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081208.010/audi-r8-v10-unveiled)

http://img.worldcarfans.com/2008/12/large/audi-r8-v10_2.jpg

mfg,
chris

[KresoF1]

I will have one...

[artur777]

KresoF1,

will it be better than 997.2 Turbo-S facelift (530PS + PDK only)?
I mean - performance, acceleration, handling, complete package, pricing and etc

I am choosing between two and would be glad to know your expert opinion

[Leadfoot]

Regarding the acceleration time for the R8v10, think 4.2s @ 100km/h and 12.8s @200km/h, both of which I believe will be conservative.

I honestly thought the 4.2s would have been conservative but thought Audi would quote such a figure. The fact that it's only 3.9s which again judging on Audi's past history will be conservative so I believe both of my estimates will be blown to bits.

The Gallardo LP560/4 quotes 3.7s (0-100km/h) and 11.8s (0-200km/h) then it not wild guess work the believe the R8v10 will be within 0.3~0.4s on the 0-200km/h time.

Maybe not quite as quick as the GT2 Mk2 with PDK but not a million miles away and it looks so much more special. A bargain.

[kju]

the exhaust pipes and the rims just look awful :)

[artur777]

I honestly thought the 4.2s would have been conservative but thought Audi would quote such a figure. The fact that it's only 3.9s which again judging on Audi's past history will be conservative so I believe both of my estimates will be blown to bits.

The Gallardo LP560/4 quotes 3.7s (0-100km/h) and 11.8s (0-200km/h) then it not wild guess work the believe the R8v10 will be within 0.3~0.4s on the 0-200km/h time.

Maybe not quite as quick as the GT2 Mk2 with PDK but not a million miles away and it looks so much more special. A bargain.

My expectations: 0-200 km/h for 12,6-13 sec.
LP560 is lighter than R8 V10, the weight will play its role

[KresoF1]

KresoF1,

will it be better than 997.2 Turbo-S facelift (530PS + PDK only)?
I mean - performance, acceleration, handling, complete package, pricing and etc

I am choosing between two and would be glad to know your expert opinion

997.2 Turbo S will be more expensive(around €160K) and is one year ahead of us(official sale late 2009).

I will go for R8 V10. I will elaborate more tomorrow...

BTW, I do not like rims also. BUT, 19" from current R8 V8 are non cost option.

[RXBG]

insane. it will be much faster than the M6. i like the black lower rear end. the wheels may look good in real life. for 2011 MY in the USA. gives me time to invest in certain things....

[artur777]

997.2 Turbo S will be more expensive(around €160K) and is one year ahead of us(official sale late 2009).

I will go for R8 V10. I will elaborate more tomorrow...

BTW, I do not like rims also. BUT, 19" from current R8 V8 are non cost option.

KresoF1,

thx - pls post tomorrow more details. Very interesting for everybody here.

[artur777]

insane. it will be much faster than the M6. i like the black lower rear end. the wheels may look good in real life. for 2011 MY in the USA. gives me time to invest in certain things....

Absolutely agree.
It will be on par with GTR / 911 Turbo / F430 / Gallardo

[RXBG]

seems it say 528 bhp. which means 552 hp. exactly like the LP 560.

with the revised r-tronic (e-gear) it'll also have launch control capable of ejecting that thing like a spermatozoid. this is going to be epic- 997.2 TT vs R8 V10. thankfully it will be offered in manual.

i am predicting 0-60 in 3.7 with mag tests (true manual) and 1/4 mile in 12.0 seconds (M6 12.6 in R&T 2007) at over 110 mph. this car will truly do damage to the GTR and be right in line with the NSX and LF-A. i suspect it'll come in at only 15K over the V8 in the US. by 2011 MY the V8 would be about 118K making this car cost about 133K- right in line with the 997.2 TT. at this rate the GTR itself will be pushing 100K (given the recent 5K MSRP hike) making this R8 a bargain. what a freaking killer car. and that rear is going to be insane in person. can't wait.

[itisme]

Full Press release by Audi:

have fun ;)


The Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro: breathtaking performance

* The new 5.2-liter, ten-cylinder engine puts out 525 hp
* Sprint to 100 km/h in 3.9 seconds, top speed 316 km/h
* High-performance sports car with striking design

Audi is launching the next variant of its top-of-the-line model. With the R8, the brand has established itself at the forefront of high-end sports cars from the very start – and now comes the R8 V10. Its 5.2-liter, ten-cylinder engine churns out 386 kW (525 hp) and 530 Nm (390.91 lb-ft) of torque, which makes for breathtaking performance. With superior Audi technologies such as quattro all-wheel drive, the lightweight aluminum body, the innovative all-LED headlights, and its striking design, the
R8 V10 takes pole position against the competition.

The R8 V10 is the result of cumulative know-how from Audi's string of Le Mans victories. Its naturally aspirated engine combines racing technology such as dry sump lubrication with FSI gasoline direct injection. The ten-cylinder design is the perfect synthesis for impressive top performance, mighty pulling power, and low weight. Starting in 2009, this engine will also prove its potential on the world's racetracks – in the new R8 racing car Audi is developing for customer teams in conformance with the GT3 rules.

The V10 engine in the production sports car will be almost identical in construction to the one in the racing version. Its displacement is 5,204 cc, at 6,500 rpm it delivers 530 Nm (390.91 lb-ft) of torque, at 8,000 rpm its power tops out at 386 kW (525 hp).

The specific power output is 100.9 hp per liter of displacement – and each hp has to propel only 3.09 kilograms (6.91 lb) of weight, because the Audi R8 V10 in the version with the six-speed manual gearshift weighs only 1,620 kilograms (3571 lb). The engine accounts for 258 of these kilograms (569 lb) – that's only 31 kilos (68 lb) more than the V8.

The Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro rockets from zero to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in 3.9 seconds. In the version with the sequentially shifting R tronic it reaches 200 km/h (124.27 mph) in another 8.1 seconds. Even then its propulsive power hardly lessens: it's sufficient to reach a top speed of 316 km/h (196.35 mph). The immense force, the spontaneity and the thrust of the acceleration, plus the sound of the engine – all these impressions coalesce into a breathtaking sports car experience. The V10 plays a concert with growling bass tones and powerful high notes, which grows into a grandiose fortissimo as the engine revs up. This sonorous acceleration doesn't reach its limit until 8,700 rpm.

The 5.2-liter powerplant uses direct injection according to the FSI principle developed by Audi. A common rail system injects the fuel into the combustion chambers with up to 120 bar of pressure. Direct injection reduces the susceptibility to knocking and provides a certain amount of cooling through the evaporation of the fuel, which in turn supports a high compression ratio of 12.5:1. This in turn contributes to superior performance and improves fuel economy. The R8 V10 with R tronic gets by on an average of 13.7 liters per 100 km (17.17 US mpg).

For maximum dynamics: low center of gravity engine

The technical refinements of the long-stroke ten-cylinder engine include dry sump lubrication, which allows the engine to be mounted low within the chassis. The wide cylinder angle of 90 degrees also makes for a low center of gravity. The crankcase is a high-strength aluminum-alloy casting produced in a complex process. The connecting rods are made of forged steel, the pistons of aluminum. The four camshafts are chain-driven and each is adjustable through 42 degrees. This provides great latitude in controlling the valve timing. In combination with the straight, flow-optimized ducts of the intake manifold, this improves the charge throughout the entire speed range.

The R8 5.2 FSI quattro has a six-speed transmission. A precise and smooth-shifting manual transmission comes as standard equipment. The sequential R tronic is available as an option. The high-tech gearshift conveys an authentic racing feel – with the rocker switches at the steering wheel and the short shifting times of usually less than one-tenth of a second. When the driver actuates the Launch Control program by pressing a button, the R8 V10 takes off in a vehement quick-start with electronically controlled tire slip – both with the R tronic and with the manual transmission.

A contributing factor to the wide lead in traction and driving safety of the Audi R8 V10 over the competition is quattro all-wheel drive – it's the superior technology especially for a high-performance sports car. Four powered wheels get more grip than two. They enable the driver to step on the gas sooner when coming out of a curve. It's not only the traction that benefits, but also the transverse dynamics and the stability.

44 to 56 percent – the ideal axle load distribution

The Audi R8 chassis offers both dynamic performance and astonishing levels of comfort on long distances. This high-performance sports car from Audi eagerly responds to any steering action with instant ease, achieves lateral acceleration of up to 1.2 g, and handles any situation with superb driving safety. Its mid-engine design provides an ideal axle load distribution of 44 to
56 percent.

The wheel suspensions on dual aluminum wishbones front and rear – a classic racing technology – are optimized for neutral self-steering characteristics. Even more than in the eight-cylinder R8, this setup is designed for maximum performance. 19-inch wheels equipped with tire pressure monitoring display are standard equipment. Their 10-spoke Y design is exclusive to the R8 V10. Tire sizes are 235/35 front and 295/30 rear.

The car features a high-end damper technology as standard: Audi magnetic ride adapts the characteristics of the suspension in milliseconds to the nature of the road surface and to the driving style. Suspended in the oil of the shock absorbers are tiny magnetic particles which, when a voltage is applied, rearrange themselves so as to slow down the flow of oil through the valves.

In the R8 V10, deceleration is provided by an extremely muscular braking system – eight brake pistons at the front and four at the rear grasp the brake disks, which are ventilated and perforated to ensure unimpeded heat transfer. The brake disks on the front axle have a diameter of 380 millimeters (15 in); the rear discs span 356 millimeters (14 in).

The R8 5.2 FSI quattro is optionally available with a ceramic brake system whose disks are made of a composite material containing high-strength carbon fibers and abrasion-resistant silicon carbide. These are especially light: their combined weight is nine kilograms (19.84 lb) less than the weight of equivalent steel disks. The ceramic brakes can easily cope with the harsher requirements of racing, won't corrode, and have a typical service life of 300,000 kilometers (186,400 miles). Their calipers are painted charcoal gray and emblazoned with the inscription "Audi ceramic".

Typically Audi: Sharp lines and an elegantly curved roof

The wide, full shape of the R8 5.2 FSI quattro seems to hug the road. The brawny proportions and prominent wheel wells underscore its potential. The high-precision styling of the lines and the elegant curve of the roof are typical Audi features. A continuous contour optically connects the front, the wheel wells, the sides and the rear. Located well forward, the cab visually expresses the mid-engine design. The vertical air scoops (sideblades) on the sides are also indicative of the engine location. The massive aluminum gas cap is mounted flush within the right sideblade.

The design of the Audi R8 has already impressed experts, as evidenced by the double victory in the "World Car of the Year Awards 2008". In the ten-cylinder model, the styling has been sharpened up even more.

The front air inlets, which feed air to the coolers, and the lip of the front apron are painted in high-gloss black. The number of cross-braces has been reduced from four to two. The vanes of the single-frame grille have a striking chrome finish.

A very distinctive highlight of the R8 V10 are the all-LED headlights as standard equipment. Audi is the world's first automaker to use LEDs for the high beam, low beam, daytime running lights, and turn signals. Each headlight integrates 54 of these high-tech light sources. With a color temperature of 6,000 Kelvin the LED light closely resembles daylight, which is less tiring to the eyes in night driving. Further advantages of the LEDs include brilliant illumination, low energy consumption, and a virtually unlimited service life.

Special details also distinguish the body of the R8 V10. Its sideblades are more accentuated than in the eight-cylinder version. The side sills are more striking and wider; the exhaust grilles at the rear windows have a matt aluminum look. Through the large rear window, the ten-cylinder engine is clearly visible in its consummate technical beauty.

When in motion, this Audi high-performance sports car creates a downforce that keeps it in firm contact with the road – thanks to a rear spoiler which deploys automatically at 100 km/h and the fully enclosed underbody, which terminates in a sharply upward-curved diffuser. The dominant color at the rear end is high-gloss black, including the settings of the LED tail lights. The air outlets at the rear end also have only two cross-braces, and the exhaust system terminates in two large oval tailpipes.

Audi sets the example – in body weight and rigidity

The body of a sports car must be especially lightweight and rigid. Audi meets these requirements with the technology of the Audi Space Frame (ASF) and its high-tech aluminum construction. The body-in-white of the R8 V10, which includes an engine frame made of ultra-light magnesium, weighs only 210 kilograms (463 lb), and the quality of its lightweight design – the relation of weight to torsional rigidity – is the best in the sports car segment. The body is composed of profile extrusions, sheet aluminum and very complex gusset castings, all held together by 99 meters (325 ft) of welding seams, 782 rivets, and 308 special screws.

The interior of the R8 V10 provides a unique racing ambience at the luxury level. Its dominant element is the so-called monoposto – a wide arc that contains the steering wheel and the cockpit. As always in an Audi, the workmanship is of the highest quality. The surfaces of the dashboard and doors are lined with fine materials and adorned with precisely stitched decorative seams. Many customizing solutions are available: Audi supplies leather in a wide range of colors, packages with a carbon and piano-lacquer finish, or a made-to-measure luggage set. quattro GmbH, which has developed and is producing the R8 V10, also provides solutions for unconventional requirements.

The great everyday utility of the Audi R8 V10 is based in part on its spacious interior made possible by the long wheelbase of 2.65 meters (8.69 ft). Drivers and passengers of any size will always find a perfect sitting position. Visibility too is surprisingly good. Slender hinge pillars optimize the obliquely forward field of view. Another advantage for convenient everyday use is the luggage space: 100 liters (3.53 cu ft) fit under the front hood, another 90 liters (3.18 cu ft) can be stowed behind the seats. There is also room for two golf bags.

The Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro combines its colossal performance with a generous complement of standard equipment. Highlights include heatable seat covers made of Fine Nappa leather, a driver information system, the navigation system plus and the Bang & Olufsen sound system along with deluxe automatic air conditioning and an alarm system. The instruments and the gearshift knob are decorated with red rings; the footrests and the rocker switches of the R tronic have an aluminum finish.

The list of options includes other highly attractive features – such as the Audi parking system advanced with its integrated rearview camera or numerous Audi exclusive customization options. Various leather packages provide a luxurious touch, while the bucket seats from the Audi exclusive program bring a highly concentrated racing atmosphere into the R8 V10.

The Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro will be rolled out in Germany in the second quarter of 2009 at a basic price of EUR 142,400.

[Erik]

seems it say 528 bhp. which means 552 hp. exactly like the LP 560.

No, no way they say or mean bhp.

[itisme]

high res images:


source: worldcarfans.com
http://img.worldcarfans.com/2008/12/large/audi-r8-v10_6.jpg

http://img.worldcarfans.com/2008/12/large/audi-r8-v10_5.jpg

http://img.worldcarfans.com/2008/12/large/audi-r8-v10_7.jpg

http://img.worldcarfans.com/2008/12/large/audi-r8-v10_1.jpg

[Leadfoot]

My expectations: 0-200 km/h for 12,6-13 sec.
LP560 is lighter than R8 V10, the weight will play its role

It looks like Audi are continuing to surprise us with the R8v10, not only is it's 0-100km/h quicker than I first thought but it's 0-200km/h time is also inside my estimates and comfortably so with your own.

If Audi say 12s then we should read this as really saying 11.6~11.8s. Now that is well inside what the M6 can do and is right up there with the GTR.

I now wouldn't be surprised if Audi pull something truly special out of the bag when they run it officially on the ring. I'm now expecting a 7.40 minimum, weather permitting.

[emve]

seems it say 528 bhp. which means 552 hp. exactly like the LP 560.


No, LP560 has 560hp, R8 V10 525hp. Redline is at 8700rpm. :thumb:

R8 V10 R-tronic

0-100km/h - 3,9s
0-200km/h - 12,0s

Very close to LP560 (3,7s and 11,8s). The claimed 100-200km/h time is identical - 8,1s.

We can expect american mags to achieve 0-60mph in 3,4s and 1/4mile in about 11,5s@125+mph.

[artur777]

[/quote]

The Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro rockets from zero to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in 3.9 seconds. In the version with the sequentially shifting R tronic it reaches 200 km/h (124.27 mph) in another 8.1 seconds. Even then its propulsive power hardly lessens: it's sufficient to reach a top speed of 316 km/h (196.35 mph). The immense force, the spontaneity and the thrust of the acceleration, plus the sound of the engine – all these impressions coalesce into a breathtaking sports car experience. The V10 plays a concert with growling bass tones and powerful high notes, which grows into a grandiose fortissimo as the engine revs up. This sonorous acceleration doesn't reach its limit until 8,700 rpm.

[/quote]

Look at this!

That means that 0-200 comes at 3.9 +8.1 = 12.0 secs!
It's insane!
Also it can be concluded that R-Tronic will be faster than manual because it's especially pointed there.

I think that this car will be as fast as LP-560 and 997.2 Turbo if not faster. Ring time will be really at 7:30+.:king:

[itisme]

personally I think those wheels look stunning!

[KresoF1]

Ring time... I would not expect that fast time as you Gents suggested... My source told me around 10s faster then current R8. That means in HvS hands(Sport Auto) 7.45min-7.47min... I am happy.

[Ruergard]

I'm lost for words. It just won't get any better... Thanks Audi for bringing us this car! :love: :bow:

[artur777]

Will it be possible to upgrade the engine to LP560 figures by simple ECU tuning?

[KresoF1]

Will it be possible to upgrade the engine to LP560 figures by simple ECU tuning?

No, since exhaust is not the same. Also, there are some possible problems if you try to do that-check engine light will be ON all the times, cats will not work properly etc.

[quattro Gmbh]

downgraded lp560. I don't like the idea at all.

[Ruergard]

downgraded lp560. I don't like the idea at all.

Or upgraded R8 V10, depends on how you look at it. ;)

[Leadfoot]

Ring time... I would not expect that fast time as you Gents suggested... My source told me around 10s faster then current R8. That means in HvS hands(Sport Auto) 7.45min-7.47min... I am happy.


Well if Nissan can get 7.29 from their GTR and the best anyone else can do is around 7.50 then I could also accept HvS only doing a 7.45 lap. Though I am curious, did he do the 7.39 lap in the F430Scuderia or was that Ferrari themselves?

If it were Ferrari then I stick by my 7.40 minimum time in the hands of an Audi test pilot. Reason being is I think the R8v10 will be quicker then the Ferrari and LP560 on every other track and this time round it at least has the power to produce the big numbers on those long Nurburgring straights. :D

[inF]

I'm confused, what's the official model name? "Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro" or "Audi R8 V10"?

[Leadfoot]

downgraded lp560. I don't like the idea at all.

I know a fellow member has just taken delivery of his LP560, but to me the Lamborghini is the lesser car. I will be surprised if the Lambo is better in anything other than acceleration. The R8, added wheelbase and magneticride suspension will enable it to handle and corner better and thus produce better lap times.

[Erik]

The R8 V10 is too heavy to compete to the full with the LP560.

[RXBG]

The R8 V10 is too heavy to compete to the full with the LP560.

how much heavier exactly?

[Leadfoot]

The R8 V10 is too heavy to compete to the full with the LP560.

Only in acceleration will this extra weight be really felt. The R8v8 was always a heavy car in this class but seemed to pull out all the stops when put on the track, the same is true for the GTR. If the basic design is right then all that is important is power to weight, if in the ball park then it will always stand a good chance against the competition.

[RXBG]

weighs only 68 lbs more than v8- guess i'll go on a diet

launch control for both manual and r tronic!!!!!!!!

[Leadfoot]

It's 210kgs heavier than the Lambo.

That means I need wear only my undies and have a dump and I am good to go. :D

[quattro Gmbh]

i agree it's overweighed. i don't see much difference other than engine with bigger displacement. does it have variable rear differential like in lp560? i didn't read it.

r8's position looks similar to cayman in porsche model line. cayman has also better chassis than 911 but is clearly downgraded by lacking lsd and power.

[Erik]

Only in acceleration will this extra weight be really felt.

That makes no sense, as the down side with weight is usually discovered when you want to turn the vehicle in one direction or the other, or brake.

Don't tell me that the magnetic ride is going to fix all that?

[wedouglas]

Well, Ring times aren't even comparable anymore since they do work on it and improve the surface. In any case, I do think it will be faster than the LP560 on the tracks that aren't just straight lines. We know the suspension is still better on the R8 and the accelerations times seems to be pretty darn close.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

In any case, this is car is pretty fucking awesome. There will definitely be one in my garage.

[Damienr8]

Awesome! I just destroyed my work pants :hihi:

Things i like
- HP output
- Front and rear stance
- price

Dont like
- wheels
- weight

Oh and i cant wait to hear GOD at 8700 RPM

[wedouglas]

That makes no sense, as the down side with weight is usually discovered when you want to turn the vehicle in one direction or the other, or brake.

Don't tell me that the magnetic ride is going to fix all that?

But that stuff wasn't a problem with the R8 V8 in the first place. Sure, lighter would be better, but it seemed to do pretty well for what it weighed. GT-R weighed a lot too.

[wedouglas]

This could also possible end up helping V8 resale towards launch. If demand sparks up again with the V10, it will make getting one that much harder again. Even if the V8 will be lower performance, they don't build them at separate facilities. If the factory has a ton of orders again, it doesn't matter what engine they are, the allocation gets filled.

While I'm not concerned about resale, it's still would be nice.

[Leadfoot]

i agree it's overweighed. i don't see much difference other than engine with bigger displacement. does it have variable rear differential like in lp560? i didn't read it.

r8's position looks similar to cayman in porsche model line. cayman has also better chassis than 911 but is clearly downgraded by lacking lsd and power.

Though not proof positive, but when you see how playful the rear is on the R8v8 I can only assume that the Audi does indeed have the very same LSD as the LP560 has. So likewise the same conclusion much be taken that the V10 model will retain the same spec.

To compare the R8 to the Cayman is wrong, one is a mid model (Cayman) while the other (R8) is an expression of Audi's sporting achievement and the very top of their model lineup.


That makes no sense, as the down side with weight is usually discovered when you want to turn the vehicle in one direction or the other, or brake.

Don't tell me that the magnetic ride is going to fix all that?

Weight does have a bearing on the abilities you listed but it usually becomes a problem if the chassis is out of balance with the weight at one extreme or the other, in the case of the R8 it's got the perfect mid-engined weight distribution and thus will only be affected in acceleration where PTW is king. Even in braking all that is required is bigger brake disc and calipers, direction changes can be over come with stiffer suspension but as it's got magneticride a slight tweak to the setup should be the only real change.

As wedouglas pointed out, the R8v8 copes with both it's weight disadvantage and lack of true power to over come most of it competition. In fact on more than one occasion is has been quicker than the last Gallardo which has an even bigger power advantage.

It will surprise a lot of people, the doubters and optimists alike.

[emve]

It's 210kgs heavier than the Lambo.

That means I need wear only my undies and have a dump and I am good to go. :D

It hardly is 210kg heavier.

LP560 - 1550kg
R8 V8 - 1620kg
R8 V10 - est. 1650kg (30kg heavier according to the press release)


Numbers from german magazines. The officialy stated weight for the LP560 - 1430kg or so - doesnt include oil, water ... and is far from reality.

[artur777]

It hardly is 210kg heavier.

LP560 - 1550kg
R8 V8 - 1620kg
R8 V10 - est. 1650kg (30kg heavier according to the press release)


Numbers from german magazines. The officialy stated weight for the LP560 - 1430kg or so - doesnt include oil, water ... and is far from reality.

But didn't you think that Audi claimed also dry weight with its figures of 1620 and 1650kg? :jlol:
Full weight will be about 1770kg for R8 V10

[AndyBG]

R8 5.2 quattro... Sweet ride from Ingolstadt!

When can we expect first ones on the street...?

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

for comparison, weight (RL 92/21/EWG) :

R8 V8 6-speed 1.560kg ptw: 3.71

R8 V8 R-tronic 1.565kg ptw: 3.73

R8 V10 6-speed 1.620kg ptw: 3.09

R8 V10 R-tronic 1.625kg ptw: 3.10

LP560-4 Coupe 6-speed 1.500kg ptw: 2.68

LP560-4 Coupe E-gear 1.505kg ptw: 2.69

Qisha

[emve]

But didn't you think that Audi claimed also dry weight with its figures of 1620 and 1650kg? :jlol:
Full weight will be about 1770kg for R8 V10

Rubbish. You are utterly wrong. As I said. These numbers are test numbers from german magazines and fully comparable. No mfc claims.

What quisha now posted seems right. Difference between LP560 egear and R8 V10 r-tronic is about 100-120kg.

[Damienr8]

WOOOO

cant wait to see and hear more!!!!

[artur777]

Rubbish. You are utterly wrong. As I said. These numbers are test numbers from german magazines and fully comparable. No mfc claims.

What quisha now posted seems right. Difference between LP560 egear and R8 V10 r-tronic is about 100-120kg.

emve,

this weight posted by Qisha - is it dry weight or full weight including pasenger, fuel and luggage?
car magazines could also post this or that weight.
whjere is the truth?

[Leadfoot]

emve,

this weight posted by Qisha - is it dry weight or full weight including pasenger, fuel and luggage?
car magazines could also post this or that weight.
whjere is the truth?

I think we have all got the wrong end of the stick, after checking it seems to be that what Qisha has posted is correct.

The official figure of the LP560 is dry weight, this is not the same as what Audi quote, they quoted a static weight with fluids.

The figure BMW seem to use is driver with 1/2 tank of fuel and luggage, though I can't believe the 75kgs allowed comes anywhere near this combination.

So in light of all of this I am more convince that the R8v10 will be quicker almost everywhere than the LP560, and that means quicker than the F430, F430Scuderia, Z06 and possibly the GT2 and GTR on rare occasions.

[Qisha]

Dear artur777,

for clarification:

the weight meassured after RL 92/21/EWG includes all fluids with 90% filled tank, excluding driver and options.

For marketing reasons the weight is often declared as "dry".

Qisha

[artur777]

Dear artur777,

for clarification:

the weight meassured after RL 92/21/EWG includes all fluids with 90% filled tank, excluding driver and options.

For marketing reasons the weight is often declared as "dry".

Qisha

Thanks for the clarification.
It's all clear now.

It means that with the driver R8 V10 will weigh about 1700 kg.
It's less weight than GTR but a little bit more than 911 turbo

[RXBG]

:brag:

ok. so in conclusion Qisha's figures are apples and apples between the LP and the V10? or are they apples and oranges?

[emve]

Apples and apples.

The difference will be about 100-120kg.

1505kg for LP560 is the number comparable with 1625kg of R8 V10.

[RXBG]

~200 lbs difference. worth it for the extra comfort and interior space of the R8. all that for negligible perfo differences by the LP and likely better handling in the audi with an 80K USD savings to boot!

duh!!!!!!!!

[Leadfoot]

So we have gathered that the difference in weight between the R8v10 and the LP560 is small, basically a well built passenger. We have also gathered that according to both companies (Audi and Lamborghini) their respective performance up to 125mph is only 0.2s apart, so on almost every circuit with the possible exception of the ring the Audi should be quicker if past history is anything to go by. And with regards to the ring, the R8 might just be quicker than Gallardo here too, because there is really only one straight where the Gallardo's top end pace will tell, everywhere else the R8 should hold the upper hand.

If KersoF1 has been told 10 seconds quicker than the R8 this maybe true, but something tells me that this is a very conservative estimate. ;)


P.S.

The LP560 is a nice looking car but in comparison to the R8 it hasn't got the elegance or beauty. The Gallardo is all about 'LOOK AT ME' and aggression which suits some people, just not me.

On looks I class the R8 up there with the likes of the DB9.

[artur777]

So we have gathered that the difference in weight between the R8v10 and the LP560 is small, basically a well built passenger. We have also gathered that according to both companies (Audi and Lamborghini) their respective performance up to 125mph is only 0.2s apart, so on almost every circuit with the possible exception of the ring the Audi should be quicker if past history is anything to go by. And with regards to the ring, the R8 might just be quicker than Gallardo here too, because there is really only one straight where the Gallardo's top end pace will tell, everywhere else the R8 should hold the upper hand.

If KersoF1 has been told 10 seconds quicker than the R8 this maybe true, but something tells me that this is a very conservative estimate. ;)


P.S.

The LP560 is a nice looking car but in comparison to the R8 it hasn't got the elegance or beauty. The Gallardo is all about 'LOOK AT ME' and aggression which suits some people, just not me.

On looks I class the R8 up there with the likes of the DB9.


Agree with you on the looks and everything.
Comparing LP560 and R8 V10 on price basis, I should say that R8 V10 looks like a real bargain... I am not against LP560 - it's a nice package, but R8 V10 seems to me a ore reasonable purchase.:love2:

I will wait for the info from KresoF1 about 997.2 Turbo S which will be compared to R8 V10 and LP560 very actively. After that it could be concluded who the King of Hills is.:king:

[KresoF1]

Ok, this thread is about R8 V10. Just Artur777 requested some info about forthcoming 997.2 Turbo models(FL). There will be two models-997.2 Turbo with 500ps(manual and PDK) and little bit later 997.2 Turbo S model(530ps and PDK only). Both will have new engine based on 3614ccm current DFI Carrera engine. Just it will feature(hopefully) true dry sump, updated PTM(Porsche's AWD) and that famous PDK. It will be without any doubt better car then current 997 Turbo. Just, will it be better car overall then R8 V10?
IMHO if you want manual answer is NO. On the other hand if DCT like box is a must then 997.2 Turbo with PDK is better choice since I am not a fan of R Tronic.

R8 V10 will give you excellent design(that is MY opinion), truly excellent drive dynamics and engine that can be described as nuclear power plant(!)... My personal choice is R8 V10. Just for your info IMHO normal R8(V8) is as good as V10, just not as fast...

[artur777]

Ok, this thread is about R8 V10. Just Artur777 requested some info about forthcoming 997.2 Turbo models(FL). There will be two models-997.2 Turbo with 500ps(manual and PDK) and little bit later 997.2 Turbo S model(530ps and PDK only). Both will have new engine based on 3614ccm current DFI Carrera engine. Just it will feature(hopefully) true dry sump, updated PTM(Porsche's AWD) and that famous PDK. It will be without any doubt better car then current 997 Turbo. Just, will it be better car overall then R8 V10?
IMHO if you want manual answer is NO. On the other hand if DCT like box is a must then 997.2 Turbo with PDK is better choice since I am not a fan of R Tronic.

R8 V10 will give you excellent design(that is MY opinion), truly excellent drive dynamics and engine that can be described as nuclear power plant(!)... My personal choice is R8 V10. Just for your info IMHO normal R8(V8) is as good as V10, just not as fast...

Thanks for the info!
I like your words "nuclear power plant" about R8 V10 engine:thumb:
Let's wait for some tests of R8 V10.
Also when will it go on sales in Europe?

[KresoF1]

March 2009 in Germany, April for rest of EU.

[KresoF1]

Interesting picture...
http://www.audi.de/etc/medialib/ngw/product/r8/audi_r8_5_2_fsi_quattro/my_2009.Par.0196.Image.jpg/AR8_D_10095_1.jpg

[emve]

The sequential R tronic is available as an option. The high-tech gearshift conveys an authentic racing feel – with the rocker switches at the steering wheel and the short shifting times of usually less than one-tenth of a second.

Allegedly the new R8 V10 r-tronic shifts faster than LP560 e-gear.

LP560 - 120ms
R8 V10 < 100ms

:thumb:

Scuderia does 60ms shifts. Lets see how close will new r-tronic come.

[Leadfoot]

Allegedly the new R8 V10 r-tronic shifts faster than LP560 e-gear.

LP560 - 120ms
R8 V10 < 100ms

:thumb:

Scuderia does 60ms shifts. Lets see how close will new r-tronic come.

Think 80ms. ;)

Though this and even the Scuderia's 60ms are both a life time compared to S/Tronic or Porsche's PDK, these systems shift in single figure ms.



Ok, this thread is about R8 V10. Just Artur777 requested some info about forthcoming 997.2 Turbo models(FL). There will be two models-997.2 Turbo with 500ps(manual and PDK) and little bit later 997.2 Turbo S model(530ps and PDK only). Both will have new engine based on 3614ccm current DFI Carrera engine. Just it will feature(hopefully) true dry sump, updated PTM(Porsche's AWD) and that famous PDK. It will be without any doubt better car then current 997 Turbo. Just, will it be better car overall then R8 V10?
IMHO if you want manual answer is NO. On the other hand if DCT like box is a must then 997.2 Turbo with PDK is better choice since I am not a fan of R Tronic.

R8 V10 will give you excellent design(that is MY opinion), truly excellent drive dynamics and engine that can be described as nuclear power plant(!)... My personal choice is R8 V10. Just for your info IMHO normal R8(V8) is as good as V10, just not as fast...

The Porsche will still be an impressive car but it still has the engine in the wrong place for a true sportscar with balanced handling characteristics. It will probably be quicker or as quicker as the R8v10 (unless Audi are being as truthful with it's outputs as Nissan was with the GTR ;) ) but it will not corner or handle as well as the Audi and it will still steer from the rear end, not even a brilliant awd system can cure that one.

There is another problem with the Porsche if you dislike turbo power, it's not the power plant of choice when looking for a true driver's car. And unless Porsche have made a complete u-turn with it's controls, the PDK is the worst design and executed dual clutch system on the market, I would for go the speed and smoothest for the decent and logical control layout on the R8, and anyway who knows, these improvements to the R/Tronic might redem it in your eyes.

[KresoF1]

Just one thing that I do not agree with you is about PDK. Yes, steering wheels "puddles" are not the best thing BUT, overall this is the BEST DCT on the market IMO. I tried 997.2 CS with PDK and I was very, very impressed. Much, much better then S Tronic in TTS or M-DCT in M3 IMHO...

[artur777]

Think 80ms. ;)

Though this and even the Scuderia's 60ms are both a life time compared to S/Tronic or Porsche's PDK, these systems shift in single figure ms.




The Porsche will still be an impressive car but it still has the engine in the wrong place for a true sportscar with balanced handling characteristics. It will probably be quicker or as quicker as the R8v10 (unless Audi are being as truthful with it's outputs as Nissan was with the GTR ;) ) but it will not corner or handle as well as the Audi and it will still steer from the rear end, not even a brilliant awd system can cure that one.

There is another problem with the Porsche if you dislike turbo power, it's not the power plant of choice when looking for a true driver's car. And unless Porsche have made a complete u-turn with it's controls, the PDK is the worst design and executed dual clutch system on the market, I would for go the speed and smoothest for the decent and logical control layout on the R8, and anyway who knows, these improvements to the R/Tronic might redem it in your eyes.

The Ring time will answer this question - which car will be better:-) Though in terms of handling R8 V10 will be brilliant.
My expectations:

- acceleration: LP560 and FL 997 Turbo will be faster
- handling: R8 V10 will be №1
- design, exterior: R8 V10 is very lovely

[artur777]

Just one thing that I do not agree with you is about PDK. Yes, steering wheels "puddles" are not the best thing BUT, overall this is the BEST DCT on the market IMO. I tried 997.2 CS with PDK and I was very, very impressed. Much, much better then S Tronic in TTS or M-DCT in M3 IMHO...

Pls mention in which parts it is really better.
I have tried both M-DCT and S-Tronic trannies.

[KresoF1]

Creep mode in slow city driving is far better on PDK. Downshift in auto mode are much faster(in split second from 6. to 2. gear for example). Six programms(normal, Sport and Sport Plus for both manual and auto mode) work excellent indeed. You really need to test drive 997.2 CS with PDK and Sport Chrono.

[Leadfoot]

Creep mode in slow city driving is far better on PDK. Downshift in auto mode are much faster(in split second from 6. to 2. gear for example). Six programms(normal, Sport and Sport Plus for both manual and auto mode) work excellent indeed. You really need to test drive 997.2 CS with PDK and Sport Chrono.

Does S/Tronic now have creep mode, I thought only the M-DKG had the system along with PDK now. Can you explain why it's better in the Porsche than in the BMW, after all it just creeps along at less than walking pace or it this incorrect?

Also can you explain why it is quicker than all of the other in auto mode. I have only driven a S/Tronic in a TT before and in auto sport mode the down shifts were performed at lightening speed, it was definitely quick enough for my liking.

P.S.

If you could put up with those paddles in the Porsche then you are a lot easier to please than I first thought. :D

[RXBG]

this PDK and DSG BS makes me laugh. takes the passion and technicality out of driving. beat me in a race with one of those and i'll know i lost driving while you won GUIDING.

put a real stick in the GTR boys and lets see what it'll do, i say.

this is why i love the ZR1. it is meant to be driven. no excuses. no BS.

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

talking about "most advanced" or "best of all" Dual Clutch Transmission...

Getrag supplies the BMW and Ferrari option. The Ferrari transaxle version is good for 750NM and achieves a spread ratio range between 4.7 and 6.1. and all of this for 9.000 rpm+. Parallel developed BMW version is a bit weaker, 600NM (also 9.000 rpm: M3) as well as the 2nd version (top engine speed 7.500 rpm: f.e. 335i) with a wider ratio range for better fuel economy.

The ZF version, a cooperate development with Porsche is the most advanced system on the market (right now). Transfering a max of 700NM (450NM in transaxle version) and beeing able to cope 8.000 rpm, not as "strong" as the Getrag product but lighter, better cooling flow, the fastest shift times and the wider band of "shift mode options" marks the 7DT45 as the reference Dual Clutch Transmission so far.

...most likely until the end of 2009, early 2010 as a 8 speed Version is on the way...

Anyway, it is all up to personal need, likes or dislikes and personal taste. The differences are small and to me are more a matter of software...

Fuel economy and Co2 regulations, the advantage here is 5-10% (depending on TCU) over a manual.

The Purist will always choose a manual... ;)

Qisha

[inF]

Dear Qisha,

Great post, thanks for information.

What about DSG/S-Tronic? A few months ago I've read (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=129467) the 7-speed S-Tronic was good up to 550 Nm, is the situation still so? And what about exact shift times of BMW, Ferrari, Porsche and VW/Audi?

Oh, and Mitsubishi...

[kju]

actually i have to take my opinion back, the hi res pictures just look insane, also the Wheels just look hardcore.
the car itself its just so BRTUAL

[Damienr8]

~200 lbs difference. worth it for the extra comfort and interior space of the R8. all that for negligible perfo differences by the LP and likely better handling in the audi with an 80K USD savings to boot!

duh!!!!!!!!

Yup you got it. I just cant wait for the magazine and video tests. Cant WAIT

[wedouglas]

One of my favorite changes, subtle as it may be, is that they got rid of the textured plastic diffuser and front intake blades!

That shit is impossible to clean because of the texture. The new ones appear to be smooth and glossed.

[RXBG]

One of my favorite changes, subtle as it may be, is that they got rid of the textured plastic diffuser and front intake blades!

That shit is impossible to clean because of the texture. The new ones appear to be smooth and glossed.

:hihi:

clean them well then apply some 303 protectant. easy to clean after all that. same with the engine vents.

btw- have fun, but plz watch the expletives. we let them fly from time to time in our excitement. but this is a family show :dig:

[wedouglas]

:hihi:

clean them well then apply some 303 protectant. easy to clean after all that. same with the engine vents.

btw- have fun, but plz watch the expletives. we let them fly from time to time in our excitement. but this is a family show :dig:

Whaaa? No one on here is probably under 23.

[Leadfoot]

Dear Friends,

talking about "most advanced" or "best of all" Dual Clutch Transmission...

Getrag supplies the BMW and Ferrari option. The Ferrari transaxle version is good for 750NM and achieves a spread ratio range between 4.7 and 6.1. and all of this for 9.000 rpm+. Parallel developed BMW version is a bit weaker, 600NM (also 9.000 rpm: M3) as well as the 2nd version (top engine speed 7.500 rpm: f.e. 335i) with a wider ratio range for better fuel economy.

The ZF version, a cooperate development with Porsche is the most advanced system on the market (right now). Transfering a max of 700NM (450NM in transaxle version) and beeing able to cope 8.000 rpm, not as "strong" as the Getrag product but lighter, better cooling flow, the fastest shift times and the wider band of "shift mode options" marks the 7DT45 as the reference Dual Clutch Transmission so far.

...most likely until the end of 2009, early 2010 as a 8 speed Version is on the way...

Anyway, it is all up to personal need, likes or dislikes and personal taste. The differences are small and to me are more a matter of software...

Fuel economy and Co2 regulations, the advantage here is 5-10% (depending on TCU) over a manual.

The Purist will always choose a manual... ;)

Qisha

Qisha,

You are the man to ask on this. It has always been said that DSG/S-Tronic was a co-developed program with VAG and Porsche, if so then was the same true for the newer version used with the Torsen quattro system.

You say that most of the differences between them is software, does that mean that their basic design is very similar but the design is of less importance over how they actually behave because of the software.

Now the really important question that most here would like answered, how good in the new S/Tronic in comparison to the PDK, M-DGK, Nissan's DCT and Ferrari's version.

[Ruergard]

Whaaa? No one on here is probably under 23.

Hey.. Thanks for that one.... :eye:

Thanks for a lot of very interesting reading and good facts as always from Qisha in this thread. :thumb:

I'm wondering the same thing as Leadie, will the S-Tronic be as good as we all hope?

[Qisha]

Qisha,

You are the man to ask on this. It has always been said that DSG/S-Tronic was a co-developed program with VAG and Porsche, if so then was the same true for the newer version used with the Torsen quattro system.

You say that most of the differences between them is software, does that mean that their basic design is very similar but the design is of less importance over how they actually behave because of the software.

Now the really important question that most here would like answered, how good in the new S/Tronic in comparison to the PDK, M-DGK, Nissan's DCT and Ferrari's version.

Dear Leadfoot,

it depends on the application you intend to use. Further you got to define how high you rate economy. The 7 gear versions do apply to both, you can get a short 1st gear for outstanding acceleration but keep a long spreaded 7th gear to cope with economy. As there is no natural shift time, looking at Dual Clutch Transmissions, the software is what makes the driver "feel" the workflow of the drivetrain. Now it is up to the brand, how much scalability do you want within the drivers hand. This is so flexible, from fix to multiple choice environment. If we take the Audi S-tronic for longitudinal applications, this system is engineered to be multiflexible in its characteristic. To get the most out of it, the quattro Sport differential option is a must. It affiliates perfect with the S-tronic. In the actual model lifecycle the 550NM and 9.000rpm are sufficient for applicated needs. All named Dual Clutch Transmission run "wet" (clutch), due to cooling issues. This is a compromise between lifetime reliability and efficiency. As you can imagine a dry running transmission would be lighter, more efficient, easier to control and cost friendlier. Ricardo (Bugatti Veyron) is working in this direction.

So, you can make the the trasmission match the cars character, in short terms: "behave" like a driver might want to feel it. For example A4/A5 "sporty" the S4/S5 is "sport" and a RS4/RS5 would be "supersport". Take a look at the RS6 and its autobox, shift times and impression are matched to the car. Overall the S-tronic does a good job and you get what you expect...

The future will bring stronger, more efficient, lighter and of course hybrid solutions.

Qisha

[Leadfoot]

Thanks for that explanation Qisha. :thumb:

You mention 'sportier' in application with the S4/5 but without knowing how the S4/5's S/Tronic behaves what do you mean by this, will it kickdown quicker than in the A4/5 or does it have that dreaded 'jerkiness' that Porsche and BMW have. Also if the 'jerk' isn't present in the S4/5 will in be there in the RS4/5.

P.S.

The only thing I disliked was the comments at the end 'Hybrid', it's such a nasty word and adds extra weight instead of reducing it. Then there is the problem of the battery lifespan and deposing of them when done, next there is the cost of replacements.

I don't want this thread getting off track when it's mainly about the R8v10 but I would love another thread solely discussing what is the possible futures when oil runs out.

[artur777]

Dear Leadfoot,

it depends on the application you intend to use. Further you got to define how high you rate economy. The 7 gear versions do apply to both, you can get a short 1st gear for outstanding acceleration but keep a long spreaded 7th gear to cope with economy. As there is no natural shift time, looking at Dual Clutch Transmissions, the software is what makes the driver "feel" the workflow of the drivetrain. Now it is up to the brand, how much scalability do you want within the drivers hand. This is so flexible, from fix to multiple choice environment. If we take the Audi S-tronic for longitudinal applications, this system is engineered to be multiflexible in its characteristic. To get the most out of it, the quattro Sport differential option is a must. It affiliates perfect with the S-tronic. In the actual model lifecycle the 550NM and 9.000rpm are sufficient for applicated needs. All named Dual Clutch Transmission run "wet" (clutch), due to cooling issues. This is a compromise between lifetime reliability and efficiency. As you can imagine a dry running transmission would be lighter, more efficient, easier to control and cost friendlier. Ricardo (Bugatti Veyron) is working in this direction.

So, you can make the the trasmission match the cars character, in short terms: "behave" like a driver might want to feel it. For example A4/A5 "sporty" the S4/S5 is "sport" and a RS4/RS5 would be "supersport". Take a look at the RS6 and its autobox, shift times and impression are matched to the car. Overall the S-tronic does a good job and you get what you expect...

The future will bring stronger, more efficient, lighter and of course hybrid solutions.

Qisha

Dear Qisha,

thanks for the explanation.
The most interesting will be to see software tuning for RS4/RS5 - will it be similar to M-DCT S5 and PDK Super-Sport?
Another interesting conclusion - RS4/RS5 will have less than 550Nm of torque for S-Tronic to cope with it.

As we have already seen with R8 V10 - the engine is NA, FSI and revvs up to 8700 rpm, it could be repeated with 4.2L NA for RS4/RS5 and it will be more powerful and efficient than 4.2L of the older version. On the other hand, FI engines also could be maintained because 550Nm of torque is quite high figure.

[jasaretta]

:hihi:

clean them well then apply some 303 protectant. easy to clean after all that. same with the engine vents.

btw- have fun, but plz watch the expletives. we let them fly from time to time in our excitement. but this is a family show :dig:

Sorry to hijakc - but tell me about this 303 stuff???

[Mockenrue]

Here you go - it's a very popular product with detailers:

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/interior/303-aerospace-protectant/prod_366.html

[Z07]

weighs only 68 lbs more than v8- guess i'll go on a diet



It's 210kgs heavier than the Lambo.

At least one of you is wrong.

[rks838]

haha, read the other 36 pages of argument. Of note, there are definitely people younger than 23 on this thread, being 19 here.

Judging from the side-by-side pics of the R8 V8 and V10 versions, I think the R8 V8 simply looks cleaner. Why would Audi highlight the height of the V10 by adding bright vertical strips to the grille, and reducing the number of horizontal front intake blades (or whatever we should call those)? The V10 also has an bump in the side blade that messes up the smooth design of that area of the car...and those wheels...and the prices increase, whatever it comes to...

Hmmm...performance-wise, the V8 version posted one of the fastest TopGear lap times anyway...if I were an R8 V8 owner, I would not be worried.

[Ruergard]

haha, read the other 36 pages of argument. Of note, there are definitely people younger than 23 on this thread, being 19 here.

Judging from the side-by-side pics of the R8 V8 and V10 versions, I think the R8 V8 simply looks cleaner. Why would Audi highlight the height of the V10 by adding bright vertical strips to the grille, and reducing the number of horizontal front intake blades (or whatever we should call those)? The V10 also has an bump in the side blade that messes up the smooth design of that area of the car...and those wheels...and the prices increase, whatever it comes to...

Hmmm...performance-wise, the V8 version posted one of the fastest TopGear lap times anyway...if I were an R8 V8 owner, I would not be worried.

Count me in at 20 here. :thumb:

The V8 version looks cleaner for sure, but give the V10 a nicer set of rims and i till be spot on. The wider blades looks perfect!

Having a V8 powered R8 I wouldn't be worried at all about anything I guess.... One of, or maybe the best useable sportscar ever made so far... :R8:

Until that V10 monster comes along that is... :applause:


Thanks for a great explanation Qisha, full of facts as always.

[Z07]

^20 and has an R8. I'd ban him.;):D

[The RS6]

^20 and has an R8. I'd ban him.;):D

I'd marry him :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

[wedouglas]

Meh, whatever. There was a thread on the other board about owner age/career and I didn't remember seeing anyone young than me, so I just said 23.

[Z07]

I'd marry him :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

I don't like R8s that much.

[R8.V10]

i´ve had a ride in a black one...

Just have one word and a sentence for you :

AWESOME! I´ve got to have one.

Suzuka-Grey would be just my colour

[Ruergard]

^20 and has an R8. I'd ban him.;):D

A little bit of a misstake here, I really don't have en R8. Not that I wouldn't wan't have one.. :heart:

[Z07]

I dislike you a little less already.

[Ruergard]

I dislike you a little less already.

Well, that's a good thing though. ;)

[troyjgaspard]

hey guys we are all brothers in audi and lets just not forget one thing that audi is the best and the king of german automobile craftmanship in my opinion.regardless of the looks the r8 is a freaking monster machine.

[R8 England]

Link to final V10 specs, pricing and options brochure (UK)

http://www.audi.co.uk/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/uk/Products/R8.Par.0036.File.pdf

[artur777]

nice one link!

[Z07]

Those prices are actually pretty good. Just slightly less than a 997 Turbo, so that's an easy decision to make - R8 V10 everytime.

[RXBG]

Those prices are actually pretty good. Just slightly less than a 997 Turbo, so that's an easy decision to make - R8 V10 everytime.


agreed. i always expected this. it is part of what makes the car such an amazing deal. i expect the car to cost about 130K in the US. less than 20K more than the V8. :R8: