Automobile crisis

[itisme]

Dear Friends,

I'm following the press here in Germany for at least 2 month on that topic.
I'd be really interested on statements of the automobil crisis in the USA with the big three.
May be some of our userers from overseas like to give us their opinions on the future for these brands and whether the politics should help, or not.

Thx a lot for your time and thoughts!

Have a nice day,
Chris

[Erik]

This will be in interesting read, I hope. Please join in.

I'm in the country of SAAB and Volvo, companies owned (and now probably sacrified) by some of these giants.

[The RS6]

I read just the other day that Volvo is for sale...

Also that Jaguar and Land Rover could be again because Tata is in some serious trouble!

[itisme]

In todays news Fiat is searching with highest importance for a partner.
It's said, that Fiat is in trouble with their money as an outcome of the financial chrisis.
According to Fiat boss Marchionnes there will be only 6 massproduction manufacturers left in the future. One in America, one in either japan and china and one in germany, one french-japanese manufactorer and one european...

[Erik]

I understand Mercedes Benz is going to but some engines from BMW :D
And that they will work together to buy internal parts.

[Leadfoot]

I know most of these companies work closely, even though they are fighting for them same customers but in the future I wouldn't be at all surprised if to protect future jobs that they become even closer. Meaning they share suspension, drive train and even the basic platforms.

When you see how different VAG can make their identical platforms look, feel and behave, it is possible that the likes of Audi and Mercedes share a common platform with exterior panels and interior designs being the only main difference.

[gjg]

(For entertainment purposes only!)


Doctors' Opinion of Financial Bail Out Package<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

The Allergists voted to scratch it, and the Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve, and the Obstetricians felt they were all laboring under a misconception.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
The Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
The Pathologists yelled, 'Over my dead body!' while the Pediatricians said, 'Oh, Grow up!'<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
The Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, the Radiologists could see right through it, and the Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
The Internists thought it was a bitter pill to swallow, and the Plastic Surgeons said, 'This puts a whole new face on the matter.'<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists felt the scheme wouldn't hold water.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

The Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and the Cardiologists didn't have the heart to say no.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
In the end, the Proctologists left the decision up to some assholes in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:pWashington</ST1:p</st1:State>!



:applause: :cheers: :applause:

[Benman]

I am a Libertarian, so I say let them fail. My father will get ZERO government help if his business of 18+ years fails during this recession/depression. Zero. Why subsidize the big boys and let all small businesses go under (which just so happen to make up well north than half of all employment in this country)? Retarded...

Having said that, I am also smart enough to know our socialist government (hardly "free" market) will bail them out in some form so I may be a Libertarian, but not a day dreamer...

Ben:addict:

[gjg]

I am a Libertarian, so I say let them fail. My father will get ZERO government help if his business of 18+ years fails during this recession/depression. Zero. Why subsidize the big boys and let all small businesses go under (which just so happen to make up well north than half of all employment in this country)? Retarded...

Having said that, I am also smart enough to know our socialist government (hardly "free" market) will bail them out in some form so I may be a Libertarian, but not a day dreamer...

Ben:addict:

Hey, wrong place to complain - you have Nancy Pelosi (ain't she the Californica dream girl....) and Barney Frank to address you complains to, and you know damn well what they will say ....

[Leadfoot]

I am a Libertarian, so I say let them fail. My father will get ZERO government help if his business of 18+ years fails during this recession/depression. Zero. Why subsidize the big boys and let all small businesses go under (which just so happen to make up well north than half of all employment in this country)? Retarded...

Having said that, I am also smart enough to know our socialist government (hardly "free" market) will bail them out in some form so I may be a Libertarian, but not a day dreamer...

Ben:addict:

I'm with you on this one Ben, no one will help me if my business goes under. But where as one small business employing 60 staff will do little to the stability of the country, a business employing half a million will have a disastrous effect on the country and it's economy.

I know my own business and employees are the most important thing to me but if the other were to happen then the chances are we would all be doomed.

[Benman]

George, you know I never voted for that nightmare broad... :D

Leadie, what you seem to forget, that at least here in the USA, "small" business accounts for over 70% of the entire employment of this country. So you are arguing to "save" less than 30% of the economy, and "let fail" more than 70%.

So... 106,000,000 jobless people is ok, as long as 43,000,000 are employed?

That is not very sound reasoning. I realize it is easy to overlook this fact, but this is exactly the stuff we should NOT overlook! The government (and big giant companies) will ALWAYS come up with "excellent" reasons why we must "save" these institutions, but they are all hogwash! Take AIG. We (the US tax payer) just HAD to save them! We had to! So... we the tax payer give them a $35B loan, than a $85B loan, and lo and behold, they need another $10B or they will go "BK". Nice. A black hole...

You are "Small Business", George is "Small Business", Erik is "Small Business", etc. You'd be suprised just how many members here are "Small Business" and yet none of them/us will get any help. Sink or swim is all we can do. But these asshats with $60M golden parachutes will get bailed out...puke:

If we the citizens leave this shite up to the government, there will only be the big giants left... can anyone spell:

M O N O P O L Y? ;)

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Ben,

I am not disagreeing with you, I know we will be left hanging if the shit hits the fan on our business. I was only highlighting the fact that we (small business) can adapt quicker to changing economical conditions and because of this more of us will survive.

But the fact remains that if these giant business like GM or Ford go tits up the effect from their single companies is huge. Think about it, if your town/area has such a main employer like GM and most of the population is employed by them, then what happens when they go to the wall? The whole town/area is affect beyond repair. Just think how many small businesses would have to go to a similar affect.

Life isn't fair and shit happens. :cheers:

[Damienr8]

Ben,

I am not disagreeing with you, I know we will be left hanging if the shit hits the fan on our business. I was only highlighting the fact that we (small business) can adapt quicker to changing economical conditions and because of this more of us will survive.

But the fact remains that if these giant business like GM or Ford go tits up the effect from their single companies is huge. Think about it, if your town/area has such a main employer like GM and most of the population is employed by them, then what happens when they go to the wall? The whole town/area is affect beyond repair. Just think how many small businesses would have to go to a similar affect.

Life isn't fair and shit happens. :cheers:

This is a good point and is also very true for other large businesses in my area (apart from car manufacturing plants.) Everyone is getting hurt.

In other words, Friend's Friend just picked up a new 09 CTS for 27K (out the door), it was originally priced at 47k...

[Erik]

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn210/cstrachan007/untitled-1.jpg

[Leadfoot]

It looks like the bailout (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081212.013/failed-auto-bailout-aftermath---gloomy-times-ahead) isn't going to happen after all. The financial market went into freefall (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081212.011/rejected-auto-bailout-causes-asian-stock-markets-to-tumble) due to this, so heaven help us.

[JavierNuvolari]

It looks like the bailout (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081212.013/failed-auto-bailout-aftermath---gloomy-times-ahead) isn't going to happen after all. The financial market went into freefall (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081212.011/rejected-auto-bailout-causes-asian-stock-markets-to-tumble) due to this, so heaven help us.

Yeah....the Peso went on free fall today...now 1US$ runs for about 670CLP$, yesterday it was around 654CLP$. The cooper went on free fall as well onto 1.3.- and the stock market fell as well.

Shouln't the stocks of other car MFCs go up ?

[Leadfoot]

One thing is certain, we will all be paying more for our cars in the not to distance future. Less suppliers means less competition, so I would expect Americans to be worst hit for this and rightly so when you compare the prices they pay compared to the rest of us.

[Benman]

It looks like the bailout (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081212.013/failed-auto-bailout-aftermath---gloomy-times-ahead) isn't going to happen after all. The financial market went into freefall (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081212.011/rejected-auto-bailout-causes-asian-stock-markets-to-tumble) due to this, so heaven help us.


Not so fast, it will happen, may be called a different name, but it will happen. ;)

Ben:addict:

[itisme]

One thing is certain, we will all be paying more for our cars in the not to distance future. Less suppliers means less competition, so I would expect Americans to be worst hit for this and rightly so when you compare the prices they pay compared to the rest of us.

i doupt that... the market is full of cars... the demand will set the pricetag...

[Benman]

Americans pay too much?!? The Brits take it over backwards compared to us, and don't even mention our Scandonavian friends!

Ben:addict:

[Erik]

I understand one of the few, if not the only one, to gain market share in most markets is Audi. :)

[ben916]

Benman, this thread seems to touch a sensitive nerve with you, but I am not posting about that...

I agree that there SHOULDN'T be a bailout for the US car makers.
1. If they would have built a better quality car, they wouldn't be in the problem that they are in.
2. If they would have managed their finances better, they wouldn't be in the problem that they are in.
3. If they would have had better management of their retirement/pension programs, they wouldn't be in the problem that they are in.
4. If they would NOT have unions sucking away the life of the company, they wouldn't be in the problem that they are in.

AIG? My wife works there and is embroiled right in it. We go day to day if she has a job for the next day. A majority of the employees that she works with agree with the no bailout for AIG and/or the big three.

There is a reason for BK and business failure: survival of the fittest.

No one came to UNITED airlines rescue when they took away all the pensions from retired employees with the vail of "well, if we don't do this, then the entire company goes under anyways..."

If the Big Three fail, it will not be the first time a US car company goes under...

Chrysler survived in the late 70's early 80's with the K car...

[Benman]

Ben,

I feel your's and your wife's pain. Being in the auto repair business, we too have taken a huge hit. Our #s are over 30% down from last year and the year before and have faced layoffs... We deal with AIG and all kinds of insurance companies and none want to pay any kind of money for proper repairs right now. Not to mention most customers can not even afford their deductibles and cash the insurance check (no job for us).

The bailout will short term help my father's business (and our industry), but long term I believe it will just make us all lazy. You already get my point. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[ben916]

Ben,

I feel your's and your wife's pain. Being in the auto repair business, we too have taken a huge hit. Our #s are over 30% down from last year and the year before and have faced layoffs... We deal with AIG and all kinds of insurance companies and none want to pay any kind of money for proper repairs right now. Not to mention most customers can not even afford their deductibles and cash the insurance check (no job for us).

The bailout will short term help my father's business (and our industry), but long term I believe it will just make us all lazy. You already get my point. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

There is more, but that isn't for the forum to discuss/know/"air dirty laundry". I am taking my lumps so why can't the big three also?

[Benman]

There is more, but that isn't for the forum to discuss/know/"air dirty laundry". I am taking my lumps so why can't the big three also?

Yep, again, we're on the same page. No bailout for us "little" guys, so why the big retards?

NO BAILOUT!

BTW, I hear Sweden is already giving stuff to Volvo. True?

Ben:addict:

PS Mark my words, the Auto Industry will be bailed out despite all the protests in the world...

[Klint]

Crazy, really does make you wonder.

All these profits once spoken/talked about, were some of these once doing an Enron/Worldcom scam?

Or do none of these big companies have any reserves what so ever?

[itisme]

Breaking News on german press sites:


GM macht 31 Milliarden Dollar Verlust

GM lost 31 Billion Dollar 2008


what is the consequenz on that? Will GM be insolvent? Is there one car companie less on this earth in the next few month? Thanks for you thoughts (especially from the states, I think you have the hottest news on that)

[Erik]

SAAB made 40 cars yesterday...

[AndyBG]

SAAB is has stoped production lines completely..., I think.

[Erik]

SAAB is has stoped production lines completely..., I think.

Wrong. :nono:

[ben916]

GM and FORD and HONDA made too many... the cars are sitting on the lots....