TT RS: Headed For a Geneva Debut.

[The Pretender]

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/vw_audi_performance/2010_audi_tt_rs_car_news/2010_audi_tt_rs/tt_front1/1816888-1-eng-US/tt_front1_gallery_image_large.jpg
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/vw_audi_performance/2010_audi_tt_rs_car_news/2010_audi_tt_rs/tt_rear1b/1816874-1-eng-US/tt_rear1b_gallery_image_large.jpg

The Audi TT RS is said to arrive at the Geneva Motor Show, we have an outlook.

Audi gives its sporty little TT a high five (cylinder).

Five-cylinder engines have long been an Audi trademark.
First used in 1977 in the Audi 100/5000, five-cylinders took Audi upmarket and clearly differentiated the brand from the competition.
The Audi 200 Turbo, with its 170-hp inline-five, became the world's fastest four-door in 1984; the 315-hp, Audi 80–based RS2 Avant of the mid-‘90s was the most extreme station wagon of its time; and Audi won several rally championships with the five-banger Quattro—the S1 Pikes Peak had almost 600 hp.

In the mid-‘90s, Audi dropped the five-cylinder engine and its characteristic, subdued growl in favor of more conventional four-cylinder and V-6 engines.
Brand aficionados howled in futile protest, and engineering guru Ferdinand Piëch, who had developed the five-cylinder engine but later moved on to become head of VW, said he never quite understood why the engine had been dropped.

It’s Back!

As of March 2009, a five-cylinder will be back in Audi's range in the form of a 2.5-liter unit with direct injection; it is based on Audi's modular engine architecture.
The transversely mounted engine is force-fed by a single turbocharger and will make 330–340 hp.
Torque is rumored to be around 330 lb-ft. That's enough to significantly set the TT RS apart from the lesser TTS with its 265-hp, 2.0-liter TFSI four-cylinder engine.

The TTS coupe is claimed to run from 0 to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds, and the fixed-roof TT RS—which will be built as either a 2+2 coupe or roadster—should jet to 60 at least a half a second quicker.
If customers request it, top speed will be raised to 174 mph; the TTS is governed to 155.
Curb weight will be around 3000 lb and Quattro all-wheel drive will be standard.
Power will be transmitted through a six-speed manual transmission; it is unlikely that the dual-clutch transmission will be adapted to the TT RS.

Expect minor but significant changes to set the TT RS apart from the TTS.
It needs even more air, so the front intakes will be larger, and it will sport the two large oval exhaust tips which identify Audi's RS models.

Headed For a Geneva Debut

Just a few months back, a tussle strained Audi and Porsche's high-tension relationship even further: Porsche threatened to take legal action against Audi's use of the RS moniker.
Porsche had long ago managed to protect the RS nameplate for its exclusive use and allowed Audi to use it only in conjunction with a number, as on the RS 4, RS 6, and so on.
Audi engineers went ballistic, and Porsche backpedaled, allowing the TT RS to keep its name.
Listen for a five-cylinder rumble at the 2009 Geneva auto show next March, which is where the TT RS is scheduled to make its first public appearance.

Jarod.

[RXBG]

lets see. times are tough so maybe it won't be delayed. i know the V10 R8 has been ready for some time and we have not seen it yet.

[AndyBG]

So..., iis TT RS, after all! I must say that I'm very happy for that fact!

It will be great car!

[Ruergard]

5 cylinders... I can hear it already! :love:

[artur777]

only 6mt
it's dissapointing...
the car won't be very successful...

RS5 will be a complete package to come - I will wait for it

[Leadfoot]

only 6mt
it's dissapointing...
the car won't be very successful...

RS5 will be a complete package to come - I will wait for it

I have been assured that the S/Tronic will come but will be at least a 1year after.

[artur777]

That could change everything!!
Will it overcome 8 mins mark?

[KK265]

That could change everything!!
Will it overcome 8 mins mark?
Quicker than R8 V8?

:nono:

[RXBG]

R8 did 7:50 no?

[artur777]

I also heard about 7:50
that's from I did my assupmtion about 8 mins mark for TTRS

[RXBG]

I also heard about 7:50
that's from I did my assupmtion about 8 mins mark for TTRS

overall, this TT RS will have a similar output and weight (accounting for driveline losses from the AWD) as the E46 M3. it'll probably do 8:05 or so. a perfect little figure for a car that will run around 60K USD.

[Leadfoot]

overall, this TT RS will have a similar output and weight (accounting for driveline losses from the AWD) as the E46 M3. it'll probably do 8:05 or so. a perfect little figure for a car that will run around 60K USD.

Actually, if the TT/RS has weight closer to that of the TT/S it's output to weight will be closer to that of the 997 Porsche, approx 240~245hp/ton. In theory a 8:05 could/should be possible. But I am expecting something a little higher, maybe in between this and the RS4's 8:09.

[RXBG]

it should indeed be faster than the RS4 since it will weigh about 500 lbs less and carry a bit more torque even. i'll settle on 8:05 personally.

[artur777]

Pls don't forget that the car is very small in dimensions.
Magentic Ride will do a miracle!
My expectations are about 8-05 mins

[PeterJohn]

I somehow feel we're seeing the rebirth Porsche under the Audi brand: small and light practical sportscar based on a mass production VW platform. It's got, or will have, just about anything you could want for a daily driver.

[The Pretender]

I would choose the TT RS over the R8 V8, 24/7.
It will be that good.

Jarod.

[RXBG]

I would choose the TT RS over the R8 V8, 24/7.
It will be that good.

Jarod.

it can't possibly be as fast or handle as well. given a free key to each you'd go with the TT? you must know something i don't :eye:

[Leadfoot]

it can't possibly be as fast or handle as well. given a free key to each you'd go with the TT? you must know something i don't :eye:

We do. ;)

[RXBG]

We do. ;)
then i guess i'll cough up the extra money for the V10 ....... :D

[Leadfoot]

then i guess i'll cough up the extra money for the V10 ....... :D

Congrats, that in a credit crunch that you have the money to cough up for a V10.

P.S.

I still prefer the more modest looks of the TT and giving it a little more pace, handling and aggressive look will be plenty enough for me, thankyou very much.

P.S.

We also have a 'R8 look' TT in my part of the world. I saw it today and I am not completely convinced it suits the TT, to me the TT/S looks better but each to their own I suppose. Will try and take a photo the next time I see it.

[RXBG]

[QUOTE=Leadfoot;146854]Congrats, that in a credit crunch that you have the money to cough up for a V10.
QUOTE]

we'll see :vhmmm:

[Leadfoot]

[quote=Leadfoot;146854]Congrats, that in a credit crunch that you have the money to cough up for a V10.
QUOTE]

we'll see :vhmmm:

I take it you aren't a banker then. :lovl:

[Rage]

Any idea of torque figures for the TTRS?

[Leadfoot]

Any idea of torque figures for the TTRS?

I'm sure I read or heard the figure of 400-420Nm somewhere.

[The Pretender]

Any idea of torque figures for the TTRS?
450 Nm.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

450 Nm.

Jarod.

All the better, I hope your info is correct because it will make a great car even more special.

Has Audi shot themselves in the foot or made their smartest move yet, giving all those potential RS5 and R8 customer who because of the credit crunch can't or don't want to throw all that expense into a car but are still looking something a bit special. Porsche didn't with the Cayman S and the same think seems to be present here too.

[youry]

you know if you make the maths:

ENGINE SIZE 2 L:

Power: 272hp
Torque: 350 Nm

This is on paper as these cars on dynos get in reality 280-285hp and 370-380Nm (we ve measured this on at least 3 different S3-TTS cars with low mileage on them less than 10000 kms...)

ENGINE SIZE 2.5 L (25% more)

Power +25% = 340HP
Torque + 25% = 437.5 Nm

so I am guessing thes engine will get out on dynos somethign like 350-360hp and 450-460 Nm...

so the fact that we heard 340hp-450Nml sounds totally possible and nothing astonishing based on current 2.0 L engine specs out of the TTS.

[SigmaS6]

Concerning that calculation I still hope the I5 and the I4 won't have that much in common. Sure, the numbers might be related like that, but it would be a nice move if the I5 was something recently designed or at least strongly inspired by some sporty engine (e.g. a V10 half) instead of just the plain old EA113 with one cylinder copied and pasted :)

[The Pretender]

Concerning that calculation I still hope the I5 and the I4 won't have that much in common. Sure, the numbers might be related like that, but it would be a nice move if the I5 was something recently designed or at least strongly inspired by some sporty engine (e.g. a V10 half) instead of just the plain old EA113 with one cylinder copied and pasted :)
It's "EA888" based not EA113.

Jarod.

[youry]

The prentender can you explain what is better with that ?

[The Pretender]

The prentender can you explain what is better with that ?
The new EA888 engine have distribution collar/chain on the flywheel side and the EA113 engine have a distribution belt on the oudside of the engine.
A lot of new Audi engines are chain driven.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

The new EA888 engine have distribution collar/chain on the flywheel side and the EA113 engine have a distribution belt on the oudside of the engine.
A lot of new Audi engines are chain driven.

Jarod.

The old debate of whether chain or belt is better. Brings my back to the good old days of the Cosworth BDA and the Lotus TwinCam. :)

[SigmaS6]

The EA888 is also optimized for less noise emissions. It's a compact car oriented engine imo, which is why I'd be more delighted to see an R5 that was based on an engine optimized for performance, not mainly everyday issues :)

[chewym]

The A4 2.0T with Valvelift is the best engine to base the TT-RS on.

[Ruergard]

The A4 2.0T with Valvelift is the best engine to base the TT-RS on.

Interesting, why?

Bring on the five-cylinder magic! :dig:

[Leadfoot]

The EA888 is also optimized for less noise emissions. It's a compact car oriented engine imo, which is why I'd be more delighted to see an R5 that was based on an engine optimized for performance, not mainly everyday issues :)

Please explain how the EA888 is solely optimized for noise emissions, is there something different in it's block design that makes this the case.

The reason I ask is that rev limit usually is the determining factor on output and I know the old (ohv 1600cc) Escort engines revved to 6000rpm in stock form but with flow work done to the head, a change of crank, cod rods and pistons, new cams and webers they would rev to 8700rpm. That's a heck of an increase from what was a moderate rev limit before hand, btw I know they could rev to this because I use to own one with this rev limit myself. :D

P.S.
I wouldn't have wanted to use this on a daily basis because under 2500rpm it was a dog.

[SigmaS6]

Please explain how the EA888 is solely optimized for noise emissions
Not solely, but it was one of the major improvements the engineers listed. It's in german, but on page 5 there's a picture of the noise reduction levels:

http://www.eb-bruehl.com/files/pr_mtz.pdf

They also name as the first three targets in designing the EA888 out of the EA113

- increased comfort
- production cost reduction
- easier (dis)assembling

So I wouldn't say they aimed to create a sportier version of the EA113. Don't get me wrong, that engine is a great engine, but I just don't think it's the dream base for an RS engine.

It would feel better to know it was half a Gallardo engine imo. The result might still be great, it's just that it wont have as much magic in it :)

[The Pretender]

A half Gallardo engine is the worse base to start with, because you can't just cut a V10 in half.
The new EA888 based inline 5 will use one cylinder head of the Audi V10 TFSI engine.
Further the new inline five engine will blow your mind, it's that good.

Jarod.

[SigmaS6]

because you can't just cut a V10 in half.
I didn't mean the jigsaw-way but starting the construction of a new engine based on the ideas of the Gallardo engine. I'm sure there are some quite nice engineering features to be found on such an engine compared to a 4 pot from the rabbit.



The new EA888 based inline 5 will use one cylinder head of the Audi V10 TFSI engine.
One? I hope 5 :)
But do they fit into the EA888?



Further the new inline five engine will blow your mind, it's that good.

It's just that the TTS engine wasn't to my liking so adding another cylinder to the same engine sounds like it would behave rather similar. I fear that I might fail to feel the excitement if the TTS engine failed to excite me in the first place. Hope there'll be worlds between them in the end.

[chewym]

Interesting, why?

Bring on the five-cylinder magic! :dig:

Because Valvelift gives the most power and torque. The 2.0T in the A4 has 211 horsepower and 258 lb-ft of torque (350 newton meters). The less sophisticated (no Valvelift) 2.0T in the TTS has 275 horsepower (more turbo boost) but the same amount of torque. The A4 2.0T gets better fuel economy. Give the Valvelift 2.0T the same amount of turbo boost as the the TTS, and you will have more horsepower and torque and still have better fuel economy.

To make the engine sound sporty you just give it a louder exhaust. The new Lambo V10 has the same bore and stroke as the Audi V8 and V10s. Those engines have a tiny bit more bore than the 2.0T. All of those engines are relatives. Except the four cylinders have the iron blocks, while the V engines have aluminum blocks.

[The Pretender]

The new R5 engine will have a AMC-SC1 engine block.

Jarod.

[youry]

sorry to be ignorant, but that means what ?

[The Pretender]

sorry to be ignorant, but that means what ?

AMC-SC1 is a Magnesium Alloy Developed Specifically for Engine Blocks.

Jarod.

[SigmaS6]

So does that make it special or like many of the other currently available engines for the TT?

[The Pretender]

So does that make it special or like many of the other currently available engines for the TT?
AMC-SC1 will make it a light engine with not much more weight then a 2.0TFSI.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

AMC-SC1 is a Magnesium Alloy Developed Specifically for Engine Blocks.

Jarod.

Am I right in thinking that BMW have also used this alloy?

[The Pretender]

Am I right in thinking that BMW have also used this alloy?
I have no idea, i'm not interested BMW.
Audi and Lambo are my makes.

Jarod.

[youry]

is naybody 100% sure it will presented at geneva motorshow ? or is this still a speculation (likely to be i agree)

especially since we all know now that AUDI AG will not take the lead of the geneva stand

[TTDriver]

I really doubt that the TTRS is presented at the Geneva motorshow.
I asked my dealer about it and he looked at me as if I was coming from another planet.:vhmmm:
I hope he's wrong.:D

[youry]

well 99.9% of the dealers are the last to know when cars are released so that is not necessarily a concern...

[The Pretender]

Some info out of German insurance company systems.

Audi-8J TT-RS 2,5TFSI quattro, 250KW/340 PS, 2480 CC.

It's already in it.

btw 2480cc is the same as a 2.0TFSI engine + 1 cylinder, it's the same as 272 hp : 4 x 5 = 340 hp.

The new 2.5 TFSI is a EA 888 (http://www.audiblog.nl/wp-content/motoren-4r-pdf-audi1.pdf) based inline 5 engine IMHO.

Jarod.

[SigmaS6]

It's already in it.
The only problem is that it's still up to Audi when they feel like releasing it. Didn't it say Audi wont be in Geneva? So I guess the next best thing would be Frankfurt, which would mean the delivery starts in winter 09 (a strange schedule for a fun car imo).



btw 2480cc is the same as a 2.0TFSI engine + 1 cylinder, it's the same as 272 hp : 4 x 5 = 340 hp.
It started with ~320hp though, when it was first listed in the Audi-internal part database. So I'm not so sure that the fact that it ended up being 5/4th the TTS engines power means it is exactly that. At least I hope so, as explained earlier :)

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

since the release is not that far off...

The engine is a derivate of the BGQ engine block. As needed the alloy used is meant for facing high mechanical strength. The basic design itself has its origin in the Lamborghini Gallardo base engine (4.961 cm3). So the bore by stroke is 82.5x92.8mm leading to 2.480 cm3 of displacement. The re-engineering includes forced induction as well as a different intake manifold- of course...

Qisha

[itisme]

Dear Friends,

since the release is not that far off...

The engine is a derivate of the BGQ engine block. As needed the alloy used is meant for facing high mechanical strength. The basic design itself has its origin in the Lamborghini Gallardo base engine (4.961 cm3). So the bore by stroke is 82.5x92.8mm leading to 2.480 cm3 of displacement. The re-engineering includes forced induction as well as a different intake manifold- of course...

Qisha

great informations! thanks a lot...

do you know anything about the date of presentation? I'd love to see it myself in geneva :heart:

[ZeroCool]

Dear Friends,

since the release is not that far off...

Qisha

I think this sentence is clear ;)

it seems like it's going to be in geneva

[rs-6]

*edit* only se Qisha's post now: Great to hear!

[Leadfoot]

Dear Friends,

since the release is not that far off...

The engine is a derivate of the BGQ engine block. As needed the alloy used is meant for facing high mechanical strength. The basic design itself has its origin in the Lamborghini Gallardo base engine (4.961 cm3). So the bore by stroke is 82.5x92.8mm leading to 2.480 cm3 of displacement. The re-engineering includes forced induction as well as a different intake manifold- of course...

Qisha

Thanks Qisha,

Well that confirms for Sigma S6 that the engine is basically half a Gallardo engine so should meet his requirements.

I'm very interested to see the output characteristics of this engine, how the power is delivered and over what rev range. If this engine behave like the RS6's v10TT then we will be in for a treat.

Summer '09 looks to have a silver lining in an otherwise gloomy times, just hope that it sell in decent numbers because it's this that will determine how the future will be for QuattroGmbH and what models will be built.

I only hope this is not a major down turn in the world economy and only a blip.

[artur777]

Thanks Qisha,

the info is valuable and confirms our expectations.
What cars will be its direct ocmpetitors in the market?
It's very interesting to understand how Audi is going to position it in the market.

Cayman S is weak for it.
Z4M may be? But if it has new 420 hp V8 engine from M3 it will be a tough competition...

[Leadfoot]

Thanks Qisha,

the info is valuable and confirms our expectations.
What cars will be its direct competitors in the market?
It's very interesting to understand how Audi is going to position it in the market.

Cayman S is weak for it.
Z4M may be? But if it has new 420 hp V8 engine from M3 it will be a tough competition...

I would have thought the direct competitors would be the Z4M, Cayman S and SLK55 but one could expect a crossover from M3 owners because the TT does have 2 extra seats though admittedly small ones.

The performance will be the biggest determining factors as to how many potential M3 owners jump ship.

[artur777]

Cayman S is weak, isn't it?
Z4M is too strong, isn't it?
SLK 55 AMG - agree!

[Leadfoot]

Cayman S is weak, isn't it?
Z4M is too strong, isn't it?
SLK 55 AMG - agree!

It probably a bit too early to know which it will strong or weak against in terms of performance, though I would have thought that all the ones here you have listed would have been easy prey for the TT/RS.

If the TT/RS works out to be around the 1380~1400kgs mark and has 350hp + 420/440Nm, it performance should be electric (think 0-100kmh @ 4.5s and 0-160km/h @ 10.3~5s). Those figures are well inside the Z4M, Cayman S and SLK55.

[artur777]

It probably a bit too early to know which it will strong or weak against in terms of performance, though I would have thought that all the ones here you have listed would have been easy prey for the TT/RS.

If the TT/RS works out to be around the 1380~1400kgs mark and has 350hp + 420/440Nm, it performance should be electric (think 0-100kmh @ 4.5s and 0-160km/h @ 10.3~5s). Those figures are well inside the Z4M, Cayman S and SLK55.

I am sure that 0-160 should be quicker than 10sec if TT-RS is to fight with Z4m or SLK55.
Z4M with 420hp V8 will come out of 10sec for sure

[Leadfoot]

I am sure that 0-160 should be quicker than 10sec if TT-RS is to fight with Z4m or SLK55.
Z4M with 420hp V8 will come out of 10sec for sure

I must admit I totally forgot about the new Z4M, I was only looking at the current model with it's 343hp inline-6. Well against the newer car then I doubt the TT/RS will be able to compete on outright pace, though in the corners and on the track I think things could be very close.

[The Pretender]

The engine is a derivate of the BGQ engine block.
My info say that the new R5 2.5 TFSI engine is a full brother/sister of the new EA888 Engine (development start at the same time), with all the up to date technologies.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

My info say that the new R5 2.5 TFSI engine is a full brother/sister of the new EA888 Engine (development start at the same time), with all the up to date technologies.

Jarod.

There is no easy way of telling who is correct on this as both end up with a capacity of 2480cc. Frankly I don't give a f__k which it is as long as it's amazing.

I'm not asking for much am I. ;)

[artur777]

I must admit I totally forgot about the new Z4M, I was only looking at the current model with it's 343hp inline-6. Well against the newer car then I doubt the TT/RS will be able to compete on outright pace, though in the corners and on the track I think things could be very close.

It will be interesting to look at the figures of TT-RS:-)

Audi TTS Coupe S Tronic figures by AMS:
0-100km/h: 5.4s
0-160km/h:12.6s
0-200km/h:21.1s
Weight: 1422kg

Audi S4 (333 hp, 1780 kg) figures are:
<TABLE class=tableone width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=tdone>0-100 km/h </TD><TD class=tdone style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">5.1 seconds</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdone>0-160 km/h</TD><TD class=tdone style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">11.5 seconds</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdone>0-200 km/h</TD><TD class=tdone style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">18.4 seconds</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

It gives me an understanding that TT-RS (340 hp, 1500 kg) will be capable of:
0-100 - about 4.8 sec
0-160 - about 10.5 sec
0-200 - about 16 sec

Pretty close to RS4 B7 in my opinion

[Leadfoot]

It will be interesting to look at the figures of TT-RS:-)

Audi TTS Coupe S Tronic figures by AMS:
0-100km/h: 5.4s
0-160km/h:12.6s
0-200km/h:21.1s
Weight: 1422kg

Audi S4 (333 hp, 1780 kg) figures are:
<table class="tableone" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="tdone">0-100 km/h </td><td class="tdone" style="text-align: center;">5.1 seconds</td></tr><tr><td class="tdone">0-160 km/h</td><td class="tdone" style="text-align: center;">11.5 seconds</td></tr><tr><td class="tdone">0-200 km/h</td><td class="tdone" style="text-align: center;">18.4 seconds</td></tr></tbody></table>

It gives me an understanding that TT-RS (340 hp, 1500 kg) will be capable of:
0-100 - about 4.8 sec
0-160 - about 10.5 sec
0-200 - about 16 sec

Pretty close to RS4 B7 in my opinion

I am pretty confident that the TT/RS will weigh less than 1500kgs, in fact I will be surprised if it weighs anything more than the TT/S if that much at all.

[KresoF1]

Few thing for debate:

-new 2480ccm R5 weights about 40kg more then current TTS engine
-that weight will be added to the front axle
-AWD of TTRS is just updated Haldex

Also, Leadie as we dicussed in Cayman thread situation is pretty different-FL Cayman S raised the bar pretty high...

I have NO doubt in quattro Gmbh stuff, just TTRS overall concept is IMHO wrong in some areas to be a true sportscar(engine layout, AWD Haldex etc.).

[SigmaS6]

Dear Friends,

since the release is not that far off...
Thanks for the Info!

Can you also give me a hint (or destroy my hope ;)) concerning the availability of a DSG gearbox? If it wont be available right away is it already removed from the all time feature list or will it just come with the next model year?

[SigmaS6]

-new 2480ccm R5 weights about 40kg more then current TTS engine
It seems Jarod thinks more of +/-0 kg, so what are your numbers based on?



I have NO doubt in quattro Gmbh stuff, just TTRS overall concept is IMHO wrong in some areas to be a true sportscar(engine layout, AWD Haldex etc.).
Imo it never tried to be a true sportscar as that's just not possible if you have to reuse as many components of a transversal compact car platform as possible.

But if we look at the track times of the TTS I think it won't matter in the end, you'll be close enough to those cars the RS is targeted at and getting past the remaining few will be incredibly expensive to achieve unless the car was designed for that from scratch, which will probably never happen for any RS model (only R models will be blesses with that privilege).

[artur777]

Few thing for debate:

-new 2480ccm R5 weights about 40kg more then current TTS engine
-that weight will be added to the front axle
-AWD of TTRS is just updated Haldex

Also, Leadie as we dicussed in Cayman thread situation is pretty different-FL Cayman S raised the bar pretty high...

I have NO doubt in quattro Gmbh stuff, just TTRS overall concept is IMHO wrong in some areas to be a true sportscar(engine layout, AWD Haldex etc.).

KresoF1,

so it will weigh about 1480kg
will it be only manual?
if yes - acceleration times will also suffer from it...

[KresoF1]

2480ccm R5 is bigger engine that use bigger turbo, more oil, more coolant, needs bigger intercoolers etc. Should I continue?
Good friend of mine works in NSU and he told me that TTRS will be great car. Just, it wont be that amazing as most people here expect.

[KresoF1]

KresoF1,

so it will weigh about 1480kg
will it be only manual?
if yes - acceleration times will also suffer from it...

Current state is manual only, BUT... There is a chance that stronger 6speed S Tronic will be ready for prime time-start of production.

[artur777]

Current state is manual only, BUT... There is a chance that stronger 6speed S Tronic will be ready for prime time-start of production.


Thanks.
Sorry for off-top - I saw your post on C63 AMG Ring Time.
Could you pls give some details and time to compare with all possible cars including TT-RS f.e.?

[KresoF1]

Thanks.
Sorry for off-top - I saw your post on C63 AMG Ring Time.
Could you pls give some details and time to compare with all possible cars including TT-RS f.e.?

Let's continue on C63 Supertest in other sportscar board.

[Leadfoot]

2480ccm R5 is bigger engine that use bigger turbo, more oil, more coolant, needs bigger intercoolers etc. Should I continue?
Good friend of mine works in NSU and he told me that TTRS will be great car. Just, it wont be that amazing as most people here expect.

It all depends on everyones expectations. I personally believe it will post times very close to the Cayman S and the M3, but don't expect to same entertaining manner that those rwd cars can give.

P.S.

I do remember you telling me that this same friend said the Sportdiff would not be that great and we all know that wouldn't the case.

Best wait and see, I know what I have been told and I happen to believe it. As for the weight, I still reckon Quattro will be aiming for no more than a manual TT/S.

[KresoF1]

It all depends on everyones expectations. I personally believe it will post times very close to the Cayman S and the M3, but don't expect to same entertaining manner that those rwd cars can give.

P.S.

I do remember you telling me that this same friend said the Sportdiff would not be that great and we all know that wouldn't the case.

Best wait and see, I know what I have been told and I happen to believe it. As for the weight, I still reckon Quattro will be aiming for no more than a manual TT/S.

NO, that is the same friend who told me that most "deep throats" here are dreaming about weight of R8 4.2 FSI. Do you remember some of those claims?

Other guy who works for Motorpresse and owns R8 is still not impressed that much with Sport Diff in new S4. He said to me that track time difference between S5(manual) and new S4(3.0TFSI, S Tronic and Sport diff) is marginal... Unfortunately, he is right since S4 equiped with all current Audi gizmos(Drive Select, Sport Diff, Dynamic Steering and Adaptive dampers) is only 0.4s faster then S5 manual with standard suspension.

[artur777]

Let's continue on C63 Supertest in other sportscar board.

Thx KresoF1

[artur777]

NO, that is the same friend who told me that most "deep throats" here are dreaming about weight of R8 4.2 FSI. Do you remember some of those claims?

Other guy who works for Motorpresse and owns R8 is still not impressed that much with Sport Diff in new S4. He said to me that track time difference between S5(manual) and new S4(3.0TFSI, S Tronic and Sport diff) is marginal... Unfortunately, he is right since S4 equiped with all current Audi gizmos(Drive Select, Sport Diff, Dynamic Steering and Adaptive dampers) is only 0.4s faster then S5 manual with standard suspension.

will S5 be any faster when equipped with all new goodies? or it will be a marginal advantage once again - the time around 8:25?

[Leadfoot]

NO, that is the same friend who told me that most "deep throats" here are dreaming about weight of R8 4.2 FSI. Do you remember some of those claims?

Other guy who works for Motorpresse and owns R8 is still not impressed that much with Sport Diff in new S4. He said to me that track time difference between S5(manual) and new S4(3.0TFSI, S Tronic and Sport diff) is marginal... Unfortunately, he is right since S4 equiped with all current Audi gizmos(Drive Select, Sport Diff, Dynamic Steering and Adaptive dampers) is only 0.4s faster then S5 manual with standard suspension.

Are you sure that the S5 wasn't equipped with different than normal rubber, I was sure that the normally equipped S5 was about 1s slower.

[SigmaS6]

There is a chance that stronger 6speed S Tronic will be ready for prime time-start of production.
I thought the DQ250 was about to be succeeded by the DQ500? Did they drop the plans? If they would be willing to invest in the DQ250 to make it like what, 25% stronger, I wonder why they didn't do than when the TTS came out. There they fiddled with the ignition angle to limit the engine to what the unmodified DSG could cope with.

But anyway, as long as Audi communicates it's plans for the DSG during the RS-launch phase it's fine with me, I'd just hate it if they'd fail to give any hints whether it's not supposed to appear or just a few months behind schedule.

[KresoF1]

Are you sure that the S5 wasn't equipped with different than normal rubber, I was sure that the normally equipped S5 was about 1s slower.

That S5 was equiped with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires. So, no sport tires a la Corsa or Cup.
Dunlops are specially slow if that is what you mean. But, they last longer then Michelins.

[The Pretender]

so it will weigh about 1480kg


That would be 70 Kg more then the TT 3.2, i don't think so.
It will weigh between 1400 and 1450 Kg IMHO.
In that case i will buy a 3.2, put a turbo on it with 460 hp as a result.
And i will wipe the floor with the RS.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

That S5 was equiped with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires. So, no sport tires a la Corsa or Cup.
Dunlops are specially slow if that is what you mean. But, they last longer then Michelins.

Can you tell me what the S4 was equipped with, especially if even the so called normal Tyres can make sure a big difference.

[KresoF1]

Also Michelins I think.

[Leadfoot]

That would be 70 Kg more then the TT 3.2, i don't think so.
It will weigh between 1400 and 1450 Kg IMHO.
In that case i will buy a 3.2, put a turbo on it with 460 hp as a result.
And i will wipe the floor with the RS.

Jarod.

I would have expected the weight to be something in between those two figures. It sounds a little far fetched to expect the most focused TT to be 70kgs more.

[Leadfoot]

Also Michelins I think.

That is a surprise, especially as a A4 3.2quattro produced a very credible time with a lot less power and trickery.

[KresoF1]

That is a surprise, especially as a A4 3.2quattro produced a very credible time with a lot less power and trickery.

That example of A4 3.2 quattro(1:18,0min) was equiped with S line exterior package, 19", Drive select, Dynamic Steering and Adaptive dampers. So, some trickery...

[Leadfoot]

I class the Sportdiff as the most important trickery one needs.

Back on topic, the TT/RS will be using an adapted version of Haldex-AWD which is meant to be more playful and offer better throttle control have all other forms previously used.

[deveraux]

report from carscoop-blog that audi will reveal the TT-RS and A4-Allroad at Geneva:
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/01/audi-to-reveal-tt-rs-and-a4-allroad-at.html

[Leadfoot]

There is so much of that report that is wrong, unless they know something we don't. Like S/Tronic, unless Audi have kept that one quiet there will be no S/Tronic at launch, the next is based on the Gallardo V10 not a US VW and even the photo used is of the Clubsport.

The only thing that might be true is where it will be launched because this summer is coming around pretty soon.

[The Pretender]

TT RS debut @ Geneva 2009.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5535/audittrszo9.jpg

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

Jarod,

TT/RS launch at Geneva, is this official or unofficial?

[Leadfoot]

The C63 did both the ring and Hockenheim in 8:13min and 1:15,7min respectively. I think both this times will be totally destroyed by the TT/RS, I am so sure of this that I bet even the M3's 1:14.3 is a possibility for the new Audi, if not then at the very least the time will be a 1:14.?.

Now that time would be incredible.

[The Pretender]

Jarod,

TT/RS launch at Geneva, is this official or unofficial?
Unofficial till Audi say by press release it's official. ;)

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

I ask myself if in fact the TT RS will have a fixed rear wing, will this mean there are no moving spoiler wires in the car.
So that you can change back to a moving rear spoiler. ?

Jarod.

[Erik]

TT RS debut @ Geneva 2009.


Wow, I really like the look of it. :0:

[SigmaS6]

will this mean there are no moving spoiler wires in the car.
Usually it costs more to produce a special wire harness without those wires than using the standard one.

[The Pretender]

Wow, I really like the look of it. :0:

The only thing still missing are the 3 bars left and right in the side grills.
You can see the marks where they will be.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

The only thing still missing are the 3 bars left and right in the side grills.
You can see the marks where they will be.

Jarod.

??? the same like the B7 RS4

[The Pretender]

??? the same like the B7 RS4
The grill that is, as the new RS6.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

Jarod,

Are you up to doing a photoshop number on this black TT/RS, changing the colour to something lighter and adding in the slots so we can get feel for how the car will look.

[The Pretender]

Jarod,

Are you up to doing a photoshop number on this black TT/RS, changing the colour to something lighter and adding in the slots so we can get feel for how the car will look.
I wish, but not possible at this time.
Have my all new 24" iMac, 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB 800MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB, 1TB Serial ATA Drive, NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS w/512MB GDDR3.
But not yet bought new Adobe photoshop CS4 software.
I have some connections, i will see what i can do.

Jarod.

[TTDriver]

I ask myself if in fact the TT RS will have a fixed rear wing, will this mean there are no moving spoiler wires in the car.
So that you can change back to a moving rear spoiler. ?

Jarod.

What will the rear wing look like?
Will it be the same that Audi is already offering as an option on the normal TT?

[The Pretender]

What will the rear wing look like?
Will it be the same that Audi is already offering as an option on the normal TT?
Most likely IMHO.

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

Jarod,

Are you up to doing a photoshop number on this black TT/RS, changing the colour to something lighter and adding in the slots so we can get feel for how the car will look.
Here the TT RS with the bars in.
I'm not certain if the TT RS will have foglights in the side grills.

http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/139851/audi_tt_rs_nordschleife.jpg

Jarod.

[Ruergard]

Love the looks of that thing, this will be surely be one of "the" cars of 2009... Bring it on!

[The Pretender]

I just wonder if the TT RS will have fog lights in the lower side vents.

Jarod.

[artur777]

Nice one car...
Sad it will be without S-Tronic...

[Leadfoot]

S/Tronic is coming, just not yet.

[artur777]

6 or 7 sp?

[AndyBG]

I just wonder if the TT RS will have fog lights in the lower side vents.

Jarod.

Current trend is that RS cars don't have fog lights, BMW M cars too, so it want be suprise if TT RS don't have them also...

[The Pretender]

6 or 7 sp?
6-speed.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

I am in agreement with Jarod, the most logical option is to beef up the current S/Tronic from the rest of the range to cope with the increased torque that the TT/RS will have.

I don't know if this is at all possible but it sounds the cheapest and most logical solution, especially if the TT/RS will be the sole model to receive this engine within the forseeable future.

[artur777]

But 7 sp is newer thechnology - better gearing, less friction losses due to dry clutch... why 6 sp then?

[KresoF1]

Becasue small 7speed DSG is capable to handle only up to 250Nm. Better gearing is also a different thing since TTRS engine will not be torque shy...
Dry clutches are still a mystery for long term reliablity in comparsion with wet ones. In fact the best current DCTs with 7 gear(PDK, S Tronic for S4, M3s M-DKG and Ferrari DCT in California) use wet clutches.

[Leadfoot]

To produce a 'dry clutch' dual clutch gearbox to cope with upwards on 440Nm will be a lot more expensive than a wet clutch setup and like I already said, if this engine is solely to be used in the TT/RS then it would be very expensive and foolish to develop a gearbox for one model.

[Leadfoot]

I bet it would have been probably cheaper to change the TT/RS from transverse and use the normal engine setup from the rest of the range with it's Torsen Quattro such would be the expense of developing a new gearbox in dry clutch form.

[The RS6]

Continuing our pre-show Geneva Salon reports, we have just received word that Audi's booth will host the world premieres of the long-awaited TT RS and the A4 Allroad.

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/01/audi-to-reveal-tt-rs-and-a4-allroad-at.html

[SigmaS6]

I am in agreement with Jarod, the most logical option is to beef up the current S/Tronic from the rest of the range
I only wonder why this wasn't an option when the TTS was introduced. For some reason that engine produces exactly the amount of torque that the unmodified DSG can handle, so instead of modifying the DSG they seem to have modified the engine to match the DSG.

For the TT-RS I'd assume that if it really is a modded DQ250 we'll see it immediately upon release, as only a few parts have to be changed for that. If there wont be a DSG right from the start I'd guess they'll go for the DQ500 (and might need more time) or have dropped it completely.

[ZeroCool]

There is also going to be a DQ500 ... AFAIK

[The Pretender]

The wet clutch 7-speed DSG is ONLY as a FWD DSG availeble and can handle up to 250Nm of torque.

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

There is also going to be a DQ500 ... AFAIK
I don't see that happen any time soon, more then 2 years that rumour floting around.

Jarod.

[SigmaS6]

I don't see that happen any time soon, more then 2 years that rumour floting around.
If they don't bring it for the RS, why should they even bother later on? I'd say it's now or never (at least from the MKII point of view).

[The Pretender]

If they don't bring it for the RS, why should they even bother later on? I'd say it's now or never (at least from the MKII point of view).
All depends on the next gen A3, will it be a transverse layout again or will it be MLP based longitudinal layout.

Jarod.

[SigmaS6]

When is it due? Does it come out in time to still influence the TT MKII lineup?

[Leadfoot]

There is packaging issues with making the A3 move to a Longitudinal layout, the nose increases in length and to keep things in proportion the rest of the car will have to grow, thus increasing to overall length by possibly 1 feet (300mm). That is a serious jump in size and ultimately weight.

[tvrfan]

but look at 1er series. not bad at all.

[Leadfoot]

but look at 1er series. not bad at all.

That opinion is not a universal one and one I don't happen to agree with.

[QuattroFun]

Trouble is, the new Cayman S with the diff raised the dynamic bar very high indeed - especially adjusted for the huge price gap, uncomfortably high even for the R8 V8 in fact. But the TT RS will be a bit more practical of course, which is nice, and hopefully cheaper than the Cayman S as well

[Leadfoot]

I can only imagine what price the TT/RS will be but I would expect the upper limit people would be willing to pay is £40-42k.

[The Pretender]

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6452/ttrs640480yn6.jpg

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6452/ttrs640480yn6.jpg

Jarod.

I like the fixed spoiler. :thumb:

[SigmaS6]

Is it me or is the R slightly smaller than the S?

[The Pretender]

I like the fixed spoiler. :thumb:
I don't, it's the first thing that have to go.

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

Is it me or is the R slightly smaller than the S?
No the S is slightly bigger then the rest.

Jarod.

[Ritchy]

I hope it will be possible to remove that ugly spoiler....

[The Pretender]

I hope it will be possible to remove that ugly spoiler....
I hope the wires for the moving spoiler are in place.

Jarod.

[trick]

LMAO - wondered how long before Mr Pretender started spreading this one around.

For those that didnt see this posted on the TT Forum, it's a photoshop based on a Mk 1 TT.

[/waits to see it in published in Autocar next week]

[The Pretender]

LMAO
Just LMAO not ROFLMAO.

Jarod.

[Auto]

The pic looks like a bad photoshop...

[youry]

since there is still nothing as even a teaser on AUDI German site, don't you guys start to think IT WILL NOT BE PRESENTED AT THE GENEVA SHOW ?

the A4 ALLROAD is now in there, but nothing on this TT RS.... not good

[The Pretender]

The pic looks like a bad photoshop...
Yes like this one.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/471/ttrsus7.jpg

Jarod.

[RXBG]

it'll have an automatic spoiler. big hoopla about this car, but it is essentially a cayman s type of car. not that i am knocking it.

[The Pretender]

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9629/ttrsteaser2009ha7.jpg

Jarod.

[RXBG]

that looks like the real deal. not crazy about the air dam. looks like it's wearing a skirt.

[Ruergard]

Looks better than the shop of the old TT on the last page. :jlol:

Don't think we'll see the real thing until 3'th of March though.. It's getting closer and closer, the 5-cylinder magic is on it's way back.. :love2:

[353S]

that looks like the real deal. not crazy about the air dam. looks like it's wearing a skirt.

It's not the real deal... He didn't even change the plate numbers!
http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/generated//Audi/TT-TT%20Roadster/TT%20%28a5%29/TT%20Lounge%20Preview/005__scaled_600.jpg

[f1esp]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/02/aud-tt-rs-teaser_580op_fake.jpg

[The Pretender]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/02/aud-tt-rs-teaser_580op_fake.jpg
Do you think.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9629/ttrsteaser2009ha7.jpg

Jarod.

It's a shame that this image doesn't do it's looks justice. Though it's probably very close to how the finished article will be.

[The Pretender]

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6615/naamloos1hp8.jpg
http://www.fourtitude.com/blog/ttrs.jpg

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

For such a curvy shape that front spoiler/bumper with it's slots is very square and a little out of character with the rest of the design.

Jarod, please send memo to quattroGmbH to sort it out.

[trick]

You wanted a teaser ... you got it! :)

http://www.autozeitung.de/files/images/02749/Audi_TT_RS_001_450.jpg

http://www.autozeitung.de/files/images/02749/Audi_TT_RS_002_450.jpg

[Ritchy]

http://www.automobile-magazine.fr/var/automobile_magazine/storage/images/media/galeries/photos/audi/les_audi_du_futur/echappement_tt_rs/592748-1-fre-FR/echappement_tt_rs_image_photo_leader.jpg

[trick]

Aww, you spoilt the tease ;)

Love the rear valence, not so sure about that spoiler...

[The RS6]

Nice...source for those pics?

[trick]

www.autozeitung.de and www.automobile-magazine.fr, but pretty much all over the web now

[tvrfan]

oh its a shame it got the old B7 RS4 wheels. i expect new wheels for the TT-RS. but they are looking good. but i would love to see completly new wheels like the RS6 did. from so far now, iam absoloutly in love with the TT-RS

[Kliko]

For those whi wanna hear the sound of the TT-RS!!!Check this out

http://www.autoblog.nl/images/wp2009/diverse/TT_RS_Engine_Sound.mp3

[tvrfan]

is it turbo or supercharger? in one of the articels ahead. they wrote that it could be the 3.0T from the S4 too. or the 2.5T 5cylinder. what do you think?

[AndyBG]

3.0 T from S4 it isn't...! That is for sure!

[Kliko]

its definitely a turbo, you can hear the "fffssssssssshhttt". And it isn't a V6, just listen to the fragment above when the car is stationary, that is definitely not a V6T.

[AndyBG]

2.5l, R5 turbo..., that is!

[tvrfan]

iam in love with this car. but i think the testmules had better sound o0. also i hope that he will have completly new RS wheels.

[The Pretender]

You can order the forged 9x20" RS quattro GmbH velgen op de TT RS.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

Just saw the shots/clippits of the TT/RS and it is looking good. I am hoping the RS6 20" alloys will be offered as an option.

I am also in love with the spoiler, it's something I have always felt the TT needed, in same way as a 997 doesn't look complete compared to the GT2/3 and Turbo. Another thing, up to 600hp from a 2.5L and still be classed as drivable, sorry but that is bullshit unless their opinion of drivable is different to mine.

[artur777]

Just saw the shots/clippits of the TT/RS and it is looking good. I am hoping the RS6 20" alloys will be offered as an option.

I am also in love with the spoiler, it's something I have always felt the TT needed, in same way as a 997 doesn't look complete compared to the GT2/3 and Turbo. Another thing, up to 600hp from a 2.5L and still be classed as drivable, sorry but that is bullshit unless their opinion of drivable is different to mine.

RS6 wheels are way wide IMHO, here only 9" are suitable.
About 600 hp - I also believe hardly in this

[The Pretender]

There will be some cool new wheels for the TT RS.

http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/139851/tt_rs_teaser.jpg

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

nice wheels!!!

BTW: from the soundclip, i feel that the testmule had a better sound, more 5cylinderish

compare:

http://www.autoblog.nl/images/wp2009/diverse/TT_RS_Engine_Sound.mp3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByZc2kiXGmQ

[SigmaS6]

Are the wheels in two colors or is that the angle? And are those 19" or 20"?

[The Pretender]

Are the wheels in two colors or is that the angle? And are those 19" or 20"?
They are two colors and are 9x19".
The other wheel you see is 9x20" forged.

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

BTW: from the soundclip, i feel that the testmule had a better sound, more 5cylinderish
Nothing wrong with the soundfile, it tricker my 15 year long inline five cylinder engine driving experience.

Jarod.

[SigmaS6]

And is one of them the standard for the RS or are both options?

[The Pretender]

And is one of them the standard for the RS or are both options?
The wheel in the 3 pic teaser is the standard wheel according to the info i have.
The Forged 9x20" is a option.

Jarod.

[M3 owner]

The rear wing doesn’t bother me at all,the wheels do.Thankfully they can easily b replaced w/ a set or RS4’s or MTM Bimotos.I would donate an organ 2 c a pick of this car w/ a set of Bimotos.

The TT RS interior is a work of art,u could charge ur friends an admission fee 2 get in2 ur car. Unbelievable quality,it exudes class.

Motor vehicle porn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiKNwk8OPGg