Warranty Issues

[excellente]

So ...

About 3 weeks ago, my service notification comes up.
A couple days before I had scheduled to bring it in (for a loaner), the check engine light comes on.

I bring it in, tell them pertinent info, have them do the scheduled service (basically just lube/filter~) and run the code.

Turns out, the torque converter is going bad. And the trans output seal is bad. Ok, CPO warranty covered, no issue.

In taking the car apart, a tech notices the DRC is shot ... air in the system. Full system replacement needed, not CPO warranty covered, $6900. I tell them to eat it, they replaced the front right last October under the original warranty, if it's bad now, it's their fault, it should be covered. They come back after a few days, nope, cant cover it, front right last October was due to a control arm failure, not air in the system. I say air is in the system because the work was bad. Back and forth, they're not budging. I tell them no way in hell I'm paying nearly $7k (knowing full well i can do Bilsteins for $1500~), so just button the suspension up when you're ready to deliver the car back to me after the covered work (transmission).

That was 2 weeks ago.
They still have my car.
They called today and say they'll update me again.
The last 3 updates are, "just stay w/ the loaner, we still have your car" ... wow, really? you still have it? i didnt notice.

Anyway, I digress.

The reason I'm writing is ... well, does anyone have any good advice for this situation? Do I have any recourse? Can I take the issue up to any Audi of America level or something similar, or am I really just screwed this badly?

Is this not the worst service anyone has ever heard of and/or received? I will certainly never go back to this dealership again, but I'm also contemplating on getting rid of the Beast and staying away from Audi entirely. And that's sad, having owned 3, up until this point, perfectly fantastic Audi vehicles.

[mmaturo]

Well I got the same answer on the DRC so its true Audi is not fixing it under CPO period. I think you are stuck there if you hadn't had the previous work done...however since they did replace one shock I think you may have a very valid point with them, I think the tech books tell them they MUST replace the central valves when they replace any of the shocks. I have been told that numerous times so they did not really properly fix the system the first time....also they need to tell you how air got in the system, not really possible i would think...the fluid leaks out but i don't think its replaced by air coming in. So I do think you should go to the next level above the dealer on that issue to a regional rep.

When my torque converter went it took 3 to 4 weeks to replace it. Its a long job to take the car apart completely and none of the replacement parts are in the US. My service people at the time said it took 10 days just to get the parts from Germany. So i think the amount of time they are taking should not be a concern. I had the transmission go later and that took just as long and it was a 14 day wait to get the parts from ZF/Audi Germany.

[DHall1]

Where do you live? Which dealer is this at?

DRC/ Huge issue. The dealer should have fixed the car right last october. You cannot just replace 1 shock. period. If the dealer replaced 1 shock only, that is how the air got in the system. Ask the dealer how they know the system has air in it? Are the struts leaking? If so, which ones.

Do the research on the DRC and get the above questions answered. Then....go and tell the dealer to pull up all the service bulletins on the DRC that tell the dealer to replace everything on that circuit. Ie RF/LR and control valve all must be replaced if the system is opened for any reason. You then have them by the b$lls.

How many miles on this car? I would not let something like this make me sell the car. Just put on the coilovers and forget about it.


So ...

About 3 weeks ago, my service notification comes up.
A couple days before I had scheduled to bring it in (for a loaner), the check engine light comes on.

I bring it in, tell them pertinent info, have them do the scheduled service (basically just lube/filter~) and run the code.

Turns out, the torque converter is going bad. And the trans output seal is bad. Ok, CPO warranty covered, no issue.

In taking the car apart, a tech notices the DRC is shot ... air in the system. Full system replacement needed, not CPO warranty covered, $6900. I tell them to eat it, they replaced the front right last October under the original warranty, if it's bad now, it's their fault, it should be covered. They come back after a few days, nope, cant cover it, front right last October was due to a control arm failure, not air in the system. I say air is in the system because the work was bad. Back and forth, they're not budging. I tell them no way in hell I'm paying nearly $7k (knowing full well i can do Bilsteins for $1500~), so just button the suspension up when you're ready to deliver the car back to me after the covered work (transmission).

That was 2 weeks ago.
They still have my car.
They called today and say they'll update me again.
The last 3 updates are, "just stay w/ the loaner, we still have your car" ... wow, really? you still have it? i didnt notice.

Anyway, I digress.

The reason I'm writing is ... well, does anyone have any good advice for this situation? Do I have any recourse? Can I take the issue up to any Audi of America level or something similar, or am I really just screwed this badly?

Is this not the worst service anyone has ever heard of and/or received? I will certainly never go back to this dealership again, but I'm also contemplating on getting rid of the Beast and staying away from Audi entirely. And that's sad, having owned 3, up until this point, perfectly fantastic Audi vehicles.

[Spidercat]

So ...

The reason I'm writing is ... well, does anyone have any good advice for this situation? Do I have any recourse? Can I take the issue up to any Audi of America level or something similar, or am I really just screwed this badly?

Is this not the worst service anyone has ever heard of and/or received? I will certainly never go back to this dealership again, but I'm also contemplating on getting rid of the Beast and staying away from Audi entirely. And that's sad, having owned 3, up until this point, perfectly fantastic Audi vehicles.


Call 866.892.2834.
This is AoA's special number for RS/8-series owners. Explain your situation and concerns. I'm sure the problem will dissappear rapidly.

FWIF, I agree that they should have replaced the central valves and all four struts when the DRC went bad the first time. I went through this with mine a while back, and the dealer said that replacing the entire system is the standard of care when the DRC goes bad. It took a little wrangling and some phone call to the above number to get the required documentation to pass on to the aftermarket insurer, though. No way would I pay $6k+ out of pocket to replace the DRC when great alternatives are out there at a better price (KW V3, Bilsteins, etc).

[DHall1]

Would anybody have a copy of this special documentation for the DRC service? I think we should all carry a copy around in the glove box.

Could someone host a scan of the document and put it up as a sticky?

hint, hint


Call 866.892.2834.
This is AoA's special number for RS/8-series owners. Explain your situation and concerns. I'm sure the problem will dissappear rapidly.

FWIF, I agree that they should have replaced the central valves and all four struts when the DRC went bad the first time. I went through this with mine a while back, and the dealer said that replacing the entire system is the standard of care when the DRC goes bad. It took a little wrangling and some phone call to the above number to get the required documentation to pass on to the aftermarket insurer, though. No way would I pay $6k+ out of pocket to replace the DRC when great alternatives are out there at a better price (KW V3, Bilsteins, etc).

[Spidercat]

I'll contact my service manager and see if he still has it.

[DuckWingDuck]

AoA won't cover DRC, you might have a little bit of luck if you are still under the original warranty but if you're in CPO or out of warranty, they simply won't. Ultimately, I just bit the bullet and went with an aftermarket solution because your DRC will most likely fail again even if Audi covers it this time.

Also, even though the DRC is a cross-linked designed, there is _no_ Audi technical bulletin which states that DRC must be replaced in pairs. This was another problem I had when my car was in the shop.

[Hy Octane]

Actually, the DRC shocks dont need to be replaced in pairs, if one is faulty and the other is fine, the only thing that needs replacing is the faulty shock and the system must be bled and recharged with a new central valve for that pair. The CV must be replaced and it is in writing in the RS6 self study users guide.

[vangelis]

When my torque converter went it took 3 to 4 weeks to replace it. I had the transmission go later and that took just as long and it was a 14 day wait to get the parts from ZF/Audi Germany.


How much the torque converter and the transmission cost you???

[DHall1]

I think we need some additional answers from "Excellente". Maybe some answers to the questions I posed above. Then armed with the rest of the story we can conclude a solution.

I dont like it when folks get quick to the draw about calling other folks the worst people/service on the planet without first gathering all the information and attempting to solve the problem rationally. I am in the service business myself and pride my work on the best service possible. But, we all have to pay for some things from time to time. Sorry, extended warranties dont cover everything. Health insurance does not cover everything. Just the way it is.

Let me pose a situation here. Lets say this car in question has 1 leaking strut. Ok, Audi Certified warranty does cover the central valve. Pay for the strut and get the central valve replaced by warranty and be on with it. Am I all wet here??????

I have also sent "Excellente" a PM to pitch in on the thread he started or we are all wasting time here.



Actually, the DRC shocks dont need to be replaced in pairs, if one is faulty and the other is fine, the only thing that needs replacing is the faulty shock and the system must be bled and recharged with a new central valve for that pair. The CV must be replaced and it is in writing in the RS6 self study users guide.

[DuckWingDuck]

well, the ugly beast of the DRC has reared its head several times. Paul (Hy Octane) has replaced his a handful of times. Mine has blown up on me as well. The number of people who had DRC problems are extensive even here on our boards. Frankly, I think Dave hit the nail right on the head and which is why I ultimately went and just paid out of my own pocket to replace the entire DRC system with KW V3.

[LIRS6]

When my torque converter went it took 3 to 4 weeks to replace it. Its a long job to take the car apart completely and none of the replacement parts are in the US.

When my torque converter was diagnosed as shot, my dealer scheduled me to bring the car in early in the week, expecting to have it completed within the end of the week. Sure enuf, it was done after 3 days.

[DHall1]

Print this and take it into the "Service monkey".

http://www.titsup-racing.com/RS6_Training_Manual.pdf

Clearly, shows that if a damper (shock/strut) is replaced....the central valve must be replaced to ensure operating pressure levels. Further, if the car is lowered on the ground without operating pressure levels fully restored.....you will ruin the dampers (shock/strut) on that particular circuit.

Does all of this sound familiar to your situation? It should. No wonder you have "air" in the system.

Dealer ruined the circuit if he/she did not repressure the system before lowering the car to the ground. At the very least, the dealer should replace 2 struts and a central valve at no cost to you. Period

If this is all the case and the dealer will not budge. Please post the name of the dealer so that we can all avoid that particular group of monkey wrenches.


So ...

About 3 weeks ago, my service notification comes up.
A couple days before I had scheduled to bring it in (for a loaner), the check engine light comes on.

I bring it in, tell them pertinent info, have them do the scheduled service (basically just lube/filter~) and run the code.

Turns out, the torque converter is going bad. And the trans output seal is bad. Ok, CPO warranty covered, no issue.

In taking the car apart, a tech notices the DRC is shot ... air in the system. Full system replacement needed, not CPO warranty covered, $6900. I tell them to eat it, they replaced the front right last October under the original warranty, if it's bad now, it's their fault, it should be covered. They come back after a few days, nope, cant cover it, front right last October was due to a control arm failure, not air in the system. I say air is in the system because the work was bad. Back and forth, they're not budging. I tell them no way in hell I'm paying nearly $7k (knowing full well i can do Bilsteins for $1500~), so just button the suspension up when you're ready to deliver the car back to me after the covered work (transmission).

That was 2 weeks ago.
They still have my car.
They called today and say they'll update me again.
The last 3 updates are, "just stay w/ the loaner, we still have your car" ... wow, really? you still have it? i didnt notice.

Anyway, I digress.

The reason I'm writing is ... well, does anyone have any good advice for this situation? Do I have any recourse? Can I take the issue up to any Audi of America level or something similar, or am I really just screwed this badly?

Is this not the worst service anyone has ever heard of and/or received? I will certainly never go back to this dealership again, but I'm also contemplating on getting rid of the Beast and staying away from Audi entirely. And that's sad, having owned 3, up until this point, perfectly fantastic Audi vehicles.

[MikeL01]

You may want to read your aftermarket warranty carefully. When I was shopping for a warranty service, I was told that if you swap out the DRC to an after-market system, it would void the streering and suspension portion of some warranties. Mine (Fidelity) won't cover the shocks but will cover the lines, fluids and valves...go figure.

[JCT2033]

Excellente,

DRC should be covered under CPO. According to AoA, the dealer (the tech) needs to be certified by Audi to service RS6. Try a different dealer.

[mmaturo]

Excellente,

DRC should be covered under CPO.

Again the full DRC is not covered by CPO...only the central valves, not the shocks. I went through this getting mine fixed under CPO.

[mmaturo]

How much the torque converter and the transmission cost you???

It was under warranty thank goodness. $6 to 8K if not under warranty is estimates i've seen with rebuilt trans.

[JCT2033]

Again the full DRC is not covered by CPO...only the central valves, not the shocks. I went through this getting mine fixed under CPO.

/
That's strange. I got the full DRC replaced twice using Audi CPO. I paid $50 deductible each time.

[vangelis]

/
That's strange. I got the full DRC replaced twice using Audi CPO. I paid $50 deductible each time.

Yes, I have replaced 3 shocks using Audi CPO too. I paid nothing!!

[mmaturo]

When was it that you had them replaced? As of this past summer Audi started saying no but not all dealers knew that. So some dealers ate it for work they had done but were still submitting it. Mine agreed to fix mine as 'goodwill' for being a long term customer but it was clear it was not going to be covered in the future as AoA stopped saying yes. I compiled a list of dealers from people who did have it done (when i was catching flak from mine) and in further discussion with the RS6 owners and a couple of the dealers that did fix it...it also was for goodwill and the dealer was not reimbursed by AoA. My service adviser confirmed that with two of the dealers that he contacted when i passed on my list and he wanted to get it covered as well as he was going to eat mine. I would be curios to be PM'd the dealers that did do the fix under CPO.

But seriously for others where the DRC did not originally go under your original 50K warranty (so they are really replacing/still fixing it under 12 month part warranty over and over again) do not expect the shocks to be covered, you need to ask before they do any work.

This is Audi of America so no idea in other countries.

[DHall1]

Where is Mr Excellente to chime in and update the thread he started??

:idea: :eye:

[excellente]

Sorry for the delay guys, the notifications weren't coming in, so I had NO clue the post was so well replied to. So thanks for that, and for all the information.

I don't actually have any updates since the post.
They said they'd call yesterday, but didn't.
I called and left a message and still no response roughly 24 hours later.

At this point, those are reasons enough to NEVER use this dealership again.

It's Fletcher Jones Audi, downtown Chicago.

I bought the car out in Schaumburg and am going to contact them once I get the car back from the transmission work ... which was covered (some asked how much it cost, I can post once I get the invoice of how much it WOULD have been, if you'd like).
I'm going to take the information given above and follow up w/ the Schaumburg Audi dealership.
I am absolutely not willing to ever talk to Fletcher Jones again.
Ever.

A random anecdote that you might find funny is the loaner car situation.
Or maybe it will just piss you off more, if you're already so invested in this with me (thanks, haha).

I get in the car, it's got a pretty badly cracked windshield and a cracked NAV screen. Ok, whatever, I'm not that hard to please.
A few days later, they call me and say I need to bring it back for another one. They knew about the cracks and want to replace that for me.
I'm swamped at the office, can't do it.
Everyday for the next few days, I get 2-3 messages, increasingly frantic, "We need that car back!"
Turns out ... it wasn't even registered to them anymore.
While the IL plates were valid through 5/09, some sort of situation w/ their loaners makes them not theirs after a period of time. Not exactly sure what that means, many of you may have a better handle on it. But basically, I was driving a car that I could have gotten arrested driving had I been stopped for any other reason. And they basically even left this on my voicemail.

Yet ANOTHER reason I'll never use them again.

When I read all of the problems with this car, so many of you have gone through, especially when we're talking DRC. I really do wonder why I should even keep fighting to keep it. It's clearly >< that close to being a lemon. My car has just over 40k miles. I drove it only 4k last year. Kept as pristine as possible. And I'm dealing with a failed transmission and suspension? That should never happen to an $80k+ vehicle.

So ...

People were looking for more information from me, but no one has asked anything specific.

Fire away?
I'll be sure to just check the website often, I'm not going to rely on any notification system or whatever.

[mmaturo]

Well no wonder why...f%ck...as a fellow Chicago resident you could not have taken your car to a bigger bunch of idiots. They suck period. I have a dozen stories of past experiences, all terrible. They damaged a previous car of mine to the point of needing the bumper repainted...twice! A third time they left the top down on my old cabriolet while duct repair work was going on in the building overhead and my entire interior was filled with metal shavings. Replaced things that were not the actual problem over and over, a few i was charged for and had to be refunded...blah, blah blah.

Its a hike but worth it to get the car fixed right. I would recommend Continental in Naperville first, and your loaner will be much better...all new A4s, A6s, A8s, Q7s, a TT...I am at the point that when i call i ask them to hold the loaner i want...and they have taken apart plenty of RS6s... I live downtown and drive it out but they told me a few weeks ago they will come and pick it up too (no idea on details of that service).

Second would be McGrath as thats where a ton of them were sold from in the first place including mine, and i've had mine worked on successfully there. Schaumburg did the work on my old TT and did a good job but i have no idea on their RS6 experience.

If it makes you feel better 3 1/2 years ago I bought my RS6 CPO'd with 25K miles on it. It had problems out of the box that i didn't have the car but for two weeks of the first 4 months i owned it. Pissed. (A CPO'd car that was immediately having huge issues...). The day i bought it i had a boost problem on the way home...WTF...Certified my arse...My torque converter went, i had severe boost problems or lack there of that took awhile and two dealers to figure out, then my transmission at 30K with another torque converter and a few other things. I got two new turbos as one of them had an issue (stud wouldn't come out) when dropping the engine. I needed two HVAC control units during the same period as my AC only worked for an hour then blew hot air (i'm on unit #5 now though). Made long commutes hell to meetings.

Your car isn't a lemon, its normal. Mine has been fine since the transmission was replaced (now at 66K) and my DRC held on until about 55K. Fixed and still ok 9 months later. So the first 6 months of ownership i had the same opinion of my lovely $72K I paid used lemon that i was paying huge payments just to drive a 3.2 A6 loaner for 4 months. With no compensation as i guess i didn't bitch enough to have extra warranty added on like others did or even not have to pay the payments.

Try a different service department...again i recommend Continental.

[DHall1]

Ok, good we are getting some additional information here. Thats the benefit of this forum....the others experiences. "Someone has been down the road you are going with your RS6. Trust me"

Now excellente has a couple of options to get his DRC fixed by a better dealer.

The only problem is that this first dealer screwed the pooch when they botched the repair under the factory warranty. I dont know if you will be able to convince another dealer to cover this.

[DuckWingDuck]

mmaturo - at least you had an a6 loaner :p Haha, just kidding. The RS6 is a finicky car, that's just a fact of life, it's like Ferarris are known for being touchy and old school Lambos were basically big metal boxes for you to look at. Relatively speaking, this is still a good car. I don't remember if it was someone here on the boards who said it, but, when you're on the internet, you're naturally going to see the worst because who's going to come on the boards to talk about how great his saturday afternoon drive was? He's probably still out there driving!

[BLITZEN]

The Audi Exchange in Highland Park, IL is where I got my RS6. Their Sales Service was top-notch. And when people here in Utah saw the licence frame, I got compliments!

[excellente]

Got the car back on Weds.
Didn't provide me w/ a detailed run-down of the transmission service details.
Wouldn't provide me w/ a written estimate on the suspension work they quoted either.

Does seems to transfer a little more power than before.
Still tricky on the shift selection, I think we've all resolved ourselves to that.
However, not willing to really get on her until a proper break-in has occured.

For curiosities sake, does anyone have the relevent Bilstein part numbers handy, to see what I'm looking at if nothing out there tickles my fancy??
I'm a bit confused by the -H1 and -H2 stuff, plus if they are for all 4 struts, or just the front 2 ...

Any of that info would be much appreciated, though I may be in a new 335xi Coupe before the night is up.

Regardless ... time to go shopping. Probably hit a dealership or two tonight.

*seethe*

Cheers!

[vangelis]

Finally ,, they replaced the DRC again for the 3rd time without any cost as they told me we give 2 years warranty on any job done (part replaced) at the dealer workshop :)

[Cdo]

Print this and take it into the "Service monkey".

http://www.titsup-racing.com/RS6_Training_Manual.pdf



A little off topic, but it seems like those tits-guys having fun with 3 well-tuned B5 S4's: http://titsup-racing.com/video/s4/?M=D :revs:

[Barry]

I had slight leaks to both rear shocks - the Dealer changed both Accumulators and all four shocks - they said it was the only way to do it, if one shock goes, you have to change the two shocks and the accumulator on that line. The work was carried out under the UK warranty.



Barry - Daytona Avant

[DHall1]

Everyone,

Just a quick update here. Audi has lost another :addict: owner. Excellente is looking to sell his car. Surely, the great service and warranty coverage of the DRC had something to do with it.

:argue: Just had to put my .02c in for those that followed this thread and the other thread talking about customer relations/retention.

[Yellow RS6]

Again the full DRC is not covered by CPO...only the central valves, not the shocks. I went through this getting mine fixed under CPO.

So CPO covered the CVs but you had to pay for the shocks? How much was that?

[DuckWingDuck]

Them shits are not cheap. Gotta look at the paperwork to get the price.

[excellente]

I doubt anyone is still subscribed to this post, but I figure I'll post one last time, to close it out from my perspective.

I sold the RS6.

.....

But I did buy a new '09 A3 2.0T Quattro, loaded.
I guess Audi hasn't lost this customer quite yet.

SO it's a new chapter.
Yes, I miss the power (maybe there is some tuning in it's future) ...
No, I don't miss much else.

Oh, and I do still have an new pair of EBC Red Stuff front brake pads for the RS6 laying around. They go for around $135 online, I'm willing to get rid of them for $100. Let me know through a private message if you're interested.

Regards to all, thanks for the perspective and hard-earned experience.

[DHall1]

E,

Good luck with the A3! Sorry to see you leave the RS world.

Everyone-another one bites the dust and poor Audi service and repeated DRC issues have done in another RS owner. Will it ever end??




I doubt anyone is still subscribed to this post, but I figure I'll post one last time, to close it out from my perspective.

I sold the RS6.

.....

But I did buy a new '09 A3 2.0T Quattro, loaded.
I guess Audi hasn't lost this customer quite yet.

SO it's a new chapter.
Yes, I miss the power (maybe there is some tuning in it's future) ...
No, I don't miss much else.

Oh, and I do still have an new pair of EBC Red Stuff front brake pads for the RS6 laying around. They go for around $135 online, I'm willing to get rid of them for $100. Let me know through a private message if you're interested.

Regards to all, thanks for the perspective and hard-earned experience.

[mmaturo]

So CPO covered the CVs but you had to pay for the shocks? How much was that?

I got it done through 'goodwill' however it would have been $2400.

[mmaturo]

I doubt anyone is still subscribed to this post, but I figure I'll post one last time, to close it out from my perspective.

I sold the RS6.

.....

But I did buy a new '09 A3 2.0T Quattro, loaded.
I guess Audi hasn't lost this customer quite yet.

SO it's a new chapter.
Yes, I miss the power (maybe there is some tuning in it's future) ...
No, I don't miss much else.

Oh, and I do still have an new pair of EBC Red Stuff front brake pads for the RS6 laying around. They go for around $135 online, I'm willing to get rid of them for $100. Let me know through a private message if you're interested.

Regards to all, thanks for the perspective and hard-earned experience.

you have a message