Rs5 / Rs4

[Bogdan]

Hi guys. I am new on this forum, due to the fact that I am very much considering to go for an RS model as my next car. So, I am very close to buy an 07 RS4 sedan, which , in my opinion is a great car. My best friend has one and is unbelievable (ok, he also has the MTM supercharger on it and Mov'it ceramics), but all in all, it's just a great package.But, I don't want to be sorry when I 'll have the RS4 and the RS5 will come out. There are a lot to consider here, most important that I need a sedan 4 doors due to family porposes, but again, it also depends on how good the RS5 will be. My question to you guys , and I see here a lot of you have pretty good infos, do you think this RS5 will happen next year? I know all that talk about Detroit 2009 unvealling and all the spy shots on the net, but , neither of that spy shots (except the photoshops) had flarred wheel arches or anything to disquise them , old RS4 style or new RS6 style, doesn't matter. If you remember the new RS6 spy photos on the Ring, it had a special desquise chess like colour in order for people not to see the arches. No special brakes on that RS5 mules either, like the one on the TT RS mules we all saw and which, in my oppinion , is the next RS model coming out. With the hole international economical crisis and the only 3 RS model factory capacity from Quattro GmbH at a certain time, I am very much inclined to believe that no RS5 /RS4 model will hit the streets until at least the end of 2010. Any thoughts on this, or maybe some insides on the engines for those RS cars?

[AndyBG]

I think that you are ''safe'' to buy B7 RS 4, some time will pass until you be able to actually ''put your hands'' on the new RS 4/5...

No deliverys for those cars before mid 2010..., possible even later.

Of course, IMHO!

[Bogdan]

That is what I think too, possible 2011 even, but who knows...

[Bogdan]

So, bottom line is, with R8 as a permanent model (I don't know for how long), with the RS6 until the end of 2010 and the TTRS which I am pretty sure is the next RS running until probably the end of 2011, maybe we will see th RS5 coming out (if ever) as the RS6 steps down (2011) , but the RS4.....2012-2013???????????

[The Pretender]

Don't forget the RS3 it will follow in the shadow of the TT RS.

Jarod.

[Bogdan]

RS3 should be a great small pocket rocket, but I have never seen any spy photos or anything suggesting that model will evr come out. Do you know somthing I don't?

[Bogdan]

I don't know if you've already seen this, but it is something quite interesting
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081112.033/audi-r4-rumours-resurface-once-again
That 2.5 T 335 hp new engine, I think is the one everybody is expecting for the TT RS. But what if, that TT we all saw on the Ring is nothing but a test mule for the next R4 / R3 model and the TT RS will never come????

[.:Rico]

RS3 should be a great small pocket rocket, but I have never seen any spy photos or anything suggesting that model will evr come out. Do you know somthing I don't?
Jarod,

You mention in other threads on this site about the RS3 being shelved by Porsche or that the RS3 will never happen. I've also read on other sites about the RS3 following the TT RS and Quinty also mentioned (and photoshopped) an S3 Plus (probably read RS3), so are we now saying that there will be an RS3? I agree with Bogdan here, there have been no spy shots suggesting this, so why all of a sudden will there be an RS3? Is it the final punt by Audi before the new model?

[RXBG]

the way things are there could be an RS3 since the market is moving toward small, less expensive, economical sporty cars. EU is rife with them. that being sais, it could be overdone within one car company- RS3, TT-RS, R4 may be a bit much. but we'll see.

[The Pretender]

The R4 is for 2011 or later, at that time the TT Mk2 is almost at the end of his life circle.
The RS3 is not 100% sure for the current A3 generation it coult be planned for the next gen 2010/2011.

btw, if Audi put a R5T mid engined R4 Quattro on the market i would probably not buy a TT RS.
The R4 could be one year later on the market.

Jarod.

[Bogdan]

I am sure there are a lot of things Quattro GmbH are keeping up their sleeves. A lot of work ( RS6/R8/TTRS/R4/RS3/RS5/RS4) for a small division like Quattro and, because of the recent economical decline, they will be more interested in making models that are actually selling, not RS6 like, which is a great car, but not enough RS style for these times. All I hope is that they keep up with the good quality they did until now.

[AndyBG]

Little bit off topic, but, there are spy pic's of the future Z4, and its duo to be released at '09 Geneve, and Z4 M will be equiped with M3s V8 with 420 hp... I think Audi schould give TT RS little bit more power...

[The Pretender]

Little bit off topic, but, there are spy pic's of the future Z4, and its duo to be released at '09 Geneve, and Z4 M will be equiped with M3s V8 with 420 hp... I think Audi schould give TT RS little bit more power...
I believe the Z4M will have a R6 Bi-turbo.

Jarod.

[Bogdan]

Yap, I too think that the TT RS, if ever comes, will not be a Z4 M rival. Audi will probably have a R4/R6 more suitable competitor.

[AndyBG]

I believe the Z4M will have a R6 Bi-turbo.

Jarod.

supposedly, new Z4 will feature R6 bi-turbo, as well as V8. But, V8 will go into M version, while R6 bi-turbo will be for the Z4 35i, or 3.0si..., whatever they decide to call it.

[R8.V10]

The new engine for the RS4 08 will be a V6 Turbo with 450 HP

[AndyBG]

The new engine for the RS4 08 will be a V6 Turbo with 450 HP

I hope you are wrong, V8 turbo sounds better to me... :D

BTW, there is no '08 RS 4, maybe you are reffering to '09 or '10...

[Bogdan]

Or better 2011 RS4. V8 turbo sounds better, but with all this emissions and fuel cons problems, a V6 bi-turbo sounds more possible

[The Pretender]

Audi is working on a V8 4.0TFSI with two turbo's on top in the V of the engine.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

Audi is working on a V8 4.0TFSI with two turbo's on top in the V of the engine.

Jarod.

The logical thinking would be three possibilities

1/ the 3.0TFSI from the S4 but with a turbo added.
2/ the current 4.2FSi but with valve lift and more hp + Nm.
or
3/ the RS6 engine minus 2 cylinders, (4.0L v8 Bi-turbo)

The engine you are describing sounds to be similar to the new BMW engine, the 4.4L v8 Bi-turbo.

[The Pretender]

The engine you are describing sounds to be similar to the new BMW engine, the 4.4L v8 Bi-turbo.
Yes it is similar compare to the BMW engine.
Audi say the engine will be as compact as the N/A 4.2 but with all the pro's of a TFSI.
The V10 TFSI is a lot wider with turbo's on the lower outside.

Jarod.

[Bogdan]

Hope you are right about the 4.0 TFSI being compact, because I heared that it's too big for the B8 platform and will be put into the new A8, according to the Audi scheduale sheet also. But, if you think, the 4.0 turbo should be the most logical step for audi rs4.

[R8.V10]

It will be a charged V6 Turbo with 450 HP.

[The Pretender]

It will be a charged V6 Turbo with 450 HP.
That would be a hell of a car.

Jarod.

[Bogdan]

by charged V6 turbo you mean turbo and supercharger?? hope not

[R8.V10]

by charged V6 turbo you mean turbo and supercharger?? hope not


Supercharged.

[Bogdan]

Hope you're right, but that means it will be the same B8 S4 engine with a few extra twix. They managed 380 hp in the old RS4 from a bi-turbo 2,7 engine. To get 450 hp from a supercharged 3.0 even with all the tech nowadys, it seems a little too much . I think we will see, won't we....

[Leadfoot]

If you are to use the TT/RS engine/output as a rule of thumb then a 3.0L turbo/SC should be around 400hp, not the 450hp. Though it's well known that the TT/RS engine was running up to 375hp and will be pegged back for reasons only known to Audi (Porsche input I believe).

So that would equate to an output of 450hp ..... surprise, surprise.

P.S.
Plus the GTR's 3.8L actually put out a lot more than quoted, some say as much as 550hp. That would mean 434hp, so if this is the engine of choice for the new RS4 then you can expect something in between these two figures of 434hp and 450hp.

[The Pretender]

The RS4 3.0TFSI supercharged engine will have a bigger supercharger on it to make 450 hp.
It's to believe that the S4 have a smaller type R1050/R1320 SC and the RS4 will get the bigger R1320/R1650 SC.

All TWIN VORTICES SERIES (TVS) superchargers.
<table border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr height="57"><td height="57" width="48">Model</td> <td width="33">Displacement</td> <td width="69"></td> <td width="122">A - Min
w/72mm min dia pulley</td> <td width="105">A - Min
less then 72mm dia pulley</td> <td width="27">A
Max</td> <td width="24">B</td> <td width="24">C</td> <td width="86">Minimum recommended displacement application (L)</td> <td width="86">Maximum recommended displacement application (L)</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R350</td> <td align="right">0.35</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>237</td> <td>252</td> <td>397</td> <td>127</td> <td>99</td> <td>0.2</td> <td>0.9</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R410</td> <td align="right">0.41</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>259</td> <td>274</td> <td>419</td> <td>127</td> <td>99</td> <td>0.5</td> <td>1.4</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R530</td> <td align="right">0.53</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>252</td> <td>267</td> <td>412</td> <td>144</td> <td>109</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R660</td> <td align="right">0.66</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>281</td> <td>296</td> <td>441</td> <td>144</td> <td>109</td> <td>1.3</td> <td>2.4</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R900</td> <td align="right">0.90</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>278</td> <td>293</td> <td>438</td> <td>165</td> <td>122</td> <td>1.5</td> <td>2.9</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R1050</td> <td align="right">1.05</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>305</td> <td>320</td> <td>465</td> <td>165</td> <td>122</td> <td>1.9</td> <td>3.4</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R1320</td> <td align="right">1.32</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>293</td> <td>311</td> <td>453</td> <td>187</td> <td>135</td> <td>2.2</td> <td>4.2</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R1650</td> <td align="right">1.65</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>331</td> <td>349</td> <td>491</td> <td>187</td> <td>135</td> <td>3</td> <td>5.2</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R1900</td> <td align="right">1.90</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>316</td> <td>337</td> <td>476</td> <td>207</td> <td>147</td> <td>3.6</td> <td>6.6</td> </tr> <tr height="12"> <td height="12">R2300</td> <td align="right">2.30</td> <td> L/REV</td> <td>352</td> <td>373</td> <td>512</td> <td>207</td> <td>147</td> <td>4.3</td> <td>7.8</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Jarod.
(http://www.eatonperformance.com/superchargers/TVS.html#back)
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[Leadfoot]

Jarod,

I take it you don't believe the RS4 will has anything more than a larger SC and will not run a twin charger system.

[RXBG]

a supercharger would be easier to cool. and would allow the engine to fit more easily in the R8. whatever the RS4/5 get, the base R8 will get in place of the current engine.

[The Pretender]

Jarod,

I take it you don't believe the RS4 will has anything more than a larger SC and will not run a twin charger system.
No twincharger for sure based on info i have.

Jarod.

[artur777]

Are you serious guys with all that v6 AG for rs4/rs5?
We all thought about v8 na or v8 tt...

Where is the truth lies!? Handling issues went to smaller displacements?

[The Pretender]

All NA engine's will be out of the window very soon.

Jarod.

[Bogdan]

And that's a shame, because if you let aside the tuning possibilities of a turbo engine, a big NA V8 engine is something special. I hate to believe that we are near the end of an era, the NA engines era.
I love turbo engines, but I like to be given the choice and have big NA engines on the market also.

[MR USER]

On the latest issue of Evo they say that the new RS4 could have charger and twin turbo... Is that possible?

[Bogdan]

Everything is possible, but I think it won't be the most efective or chep way to go. So, no, I don't think supercharger and bi-turbo is the answer

[artur777]

Who knows the answer?
If Audi is going to smaller dispalcements, why did they place 5L TT in RS6?

[The Pretender]

On the latest issue of Evo they say that the new RS4 could have charger and twin turbo... Is that possible?
That's BS, the reason Audi choose a SC for the 3.0TFSI V6 is to keep it compact.
And if it will be Bi-turbo then it will be with the 2 turbo's on top in the V of the engine and not at the lower side.

Jarod.

[Randy M]

I love my RS4 but boost in any form is GOOOOD...!!!

[rs-6]

Someone told me the engine would be similar to the S4 but with 3400cc, anyone who heard the same?

[Leadfoot]

Who knows the answer?
If Audi is going to smaller dispalcements, why did they place 5L TT in RS6?

You have to think of the RS6 as a different animal to all other current and future RS models. It was always designed to be a power-house, the ultimate expression of power and luxury encased in a chassis design to contain and control that power.

The future RS models will be all about weight, agility and involvement. To achieve this goal, weight and balance is key.

P.S.

Those photoshop images are nothing more than an Audi look Z4. In other words....butt ugly.

[kju]

You have to think of the RS6 as a different animal to all other current and future RS models. It was always designed to be a power-house, the ultimate expression of power and luxury encased in a chassis design to contain and control that power.

The future RS models will be all about weight, agility and involvement. To achieve this goal, weight and balance is key.

P.S.

Those photoshop images are nothing more than an Audi look Z4. In other words....butt ugly.

i hope they dont reduce the weight of the next RS6. It always should be a POWER BEAST perfect for autobahn cruising with BIG MASS for security. i hope the next rs6 is not going to be a "Race Car for Track" with only 1.3 tons or something. it always was and will be a business suite "drag" racer

thats what i like about the RS6....if you want to go around tracks very fast and nimble go for RS6 or much better R8...its about same price(r8) ?!!...

[The Pretender]

Someone told me the engine would be similar to the S4 but with 3400cc, anyone who heard the same?
3.4 litre is not possible with Audi's V6 engine's, 3.2 litre is the max.

Jarod.

[Bogdan]

I think they will sure use the 3.0 litre engine. The only question is: supercharger with higher boost pressure, supercharger and turbo or bi-turbo on top of the engine? There are 3 possibilities, and they will sure choose the cleanest (euro 5) of the 3, cause all those options can easily reach arround 400hp, maximum 450, which, combined will less weight , more balanced chassy will make a hell of a car. I keep my fingers crossed for the bi-turbo version...But, again, I think there is a long way before us until they will come up with the new RS4, probably arround 2010-2011.

[tailpipe]

The next RS4 is not going to have a development of the S4's 3.0 litre TFSI engine.

From a marketing perspective, it would not be credible versus the M3 or C63 or IS-F without a V8. Nearly all early tests of the new S4 criticise it for lacking in character. They put it down to the missing sound of a deep-throated V8.

The trick is to provide a very powerful V8 with excellent economy and and low emissions. This is what the 4.0 litre V8 TFSI engine is all about. Forget packaging issues, because the new A4 is built on the same MLB chassis architecture as next A6 and A8. Who knows, if it doesn't fit, maybe RS4 will get a massive bonnet power dome. Frankly, I've heard nothing about it not fitting in B8 A4 engine bay.

[The Pretender]

TFSI say nothing these day's about the kind of charger they use.
The 4.0TFSI V8 engine i have heared about is a supercharger for the nest gen A8.
After that there where talks about a 4.0TFSI Bi-Turbo version with the turbo's on top in the V of the engine.
The size of those turbo's stipulated wheater they will fit under a standard A4 bonnet.
Beside that the bonned need to be vented so the heat can go out.
Because the turbo's and exhaust are all on top of the engine.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

Without seeing specs for this new engine (4.0TFSi) no one knows whether or not it will fit under the hood of the RS4. Another thing, many people believed the 3.0TFSi engine that is in the new S4 was to be bi-turboed, something I insisted wasn't the case and in fact was a supercharged unit, the same confusion might be happening here again and we are once again looking at possible supercharged unit. Considering the praise the S4 engine is getting I wouldn't be at all surprised to see another SC engine making it into the line up.

The only thing I know for sure is that Audi intended to 'downsizing' it's engine capacity, something that has been in the pipeline for more than a couple of years. Handling, economy and emissions are top of the list not outright performance, though I doubt the next RS4 will suffer on this front.

One thing I notied that you (Tailpipe) wrote in the other thread, that Audi intend to bring the RS4 out shortly after the RS5. That has always been the case according to sources I have spoke to, originally the time line was for the RS5 to be launch mid/late 2009 with the RS4 within six months of this. Now that the TT/RS is to be launched ahead of the RS5 it seems logical to conclude that mid 2010 is the likely time frame for a launch.

[Rage]

Without seeing specs for this new engine (4.0TFSi) no one knows whether or not it will fit under the hood of the RS4. Another thing, many people believed the 3.0TFSi engine that is in the new S4 was to be bi-turboed, something I insisted wasn't the case and in fact was a supercharged unit, the same confusion might be happening here again and we are once again looking at possible supercharged unit. Considering the praise the S4 engine is getting I wouldn't be at all surprised to see another SC engine making it into the line up.

The only thing I know for sure is that Audi intended to 'downsizing' it's engine capacity, something that has been in the pipeline for more than a couple of years. Handling, economy and emissions are top of the list not outright performance, though I doubt the next RS4 will suffer on this front.

One thing I notied that you (Tailpipe) wrote in the other thread, that Audi intend to bring the RS4 out shortly after the RS5. That has always been the case according to sources I have spoke to, originally the time line was for the RS5 to be launch mid/late 2009 with the RS4 within six months of this. Now that the TT/RS is to be launched ahead of the RS5 it seems logical to conclude that mid 2010 is the likely time frame for a launch.

Why wont it fit under the bonnet of the RS4 if it will fit under the RS5. I thought the A4/A5 chassis were both MLP.

[Leadfoot]

Why wont it fit under the bonnet of the RS4 if it will fit under the RS5. I thought the A4/A5 chassis were both MLP.

My comments are regarding the 4.0v8 Bi-turbo unit with the turbos positioned between the vee. Without the specs or measurements of this engine it is unknown whether or not it would indeed fit below the hood of the A4.

[tailpipe]

New 4.0 litre TFSI unit fits ALL models made on new MLB platform.

P.S. Leadfoot, I love your avatar!

[Leadfoot]

New 4.0 litre TFSI unit fits ALL models made on new MLB platform.

P.S. Leadfoot, I love your avatar!

I am not 100% convinced that this new TFSi engine is turboed and the reason for this is how efficient the new S4 unit is, in both performance and economy/emissions. Bi-Turbos usually mean a lot of pipe work and normally below the cylinder head which is more prone to produces lag, that means extra weight and less accurate throttle control. Now without testing the S4 myself I can on gauge an opinion based on what I have read and this opinion is that it's throttle and power is more than a match for the 4.2FSi it replaces. Plus everything points to a better balanced chassis with better turn in than the S5, meaning that the less weight with the SC engine is also a plus.

I also not believe that a V8 SC would suffer from a lack of character as the S4 unit does, it's exhaust has been tuned to suit it's purpose where as in an RS it would be turned accordingly.

Either way, Bi-turbed or Supercharged it's all good.

P.S.
I took it from Qisha after I saw him using it, though I wonder how he got a photo of the wife in those shorters. :hihi:

[Rage]

Either way, Bi-turbed or Supercharged it's all good.

Someone more knowledgeable than I....What are the main differences between turbo and supercharging?

I mean which gives more power (considering its a V8), which is more responsive, flat or peaky power delivery, sound etc?

Thanks.

[Leadfoot]

Rage,

Sorry mate, any explanation I gave wouldn't be good enough. The only thing I do know is SC doesn't suffer the same lag problems and these latest versions are very efficient, probably more so than turboing the same engine.

[The Pretender]

The new 3.0TFSI Supercharger engine have the SC behind the throttle body, this result in less lag.

Jarod.

[Marv]

If this engine will be forced induction then I'm guessing supercharger for all the reasons above but particularly the throttle response. With the latest chassis this car will steer/balance with the throttle so well and while turbo technology is much better than it was the supercharger is better still...