Autobild: RS6-trio and Option Auto: RS6 MTM

[Michaël Barbé]

http://www.mtm-online.de/en/

http://www.mtm-france.com/news/index.php

If anyone read it: post here!
MB
:rs6kiss:

[Erik]

I was just going to say that...hope the times are better this time.

[audi_ch]

Here we go

0-100
MTM 4,2 (702PS, 785Nm)
Abt 4,5 (700PS, 800Nm)
Sportec 4,4 (650PS, 760Nm)

200-300
MTM 25,8
Abt 21,5
Sportec 23,3

0-200

mtm 13,0
sportec 13,0
abt 13,9

Mtm is not realy faster than he was bevor 13,7 to 13,0
Temprature was 20 degres..

The car is just to heavy

Compare m5 g power hurican with 730 ps 200-300 time in 16 sec

But rs6 is the most powerfull and fastest avant.

Sportec was on 22"
mtm on 21"
and abt on 20"

[Erik]

We all want more, but all I can say is that 0-300 km/h in a 2.2 ton Estate in these times is a VERY good result.

The difference between 13,0 and 13,7 is more than you can imagine.

0-300 km/h

Abt 35,4 secs
Sportec 36,3
MTM 38,8


Compare with 0-300 km/h:

Porsche Carrera GT (AMS) 34,2 s
Mercedes SLR (Auto Bild) 34,8 s
Mercedes SLR (AMS) 36,9 s
Porsche 997 Turbo (AMS) 40,7 s
Corvette Z06 (AMS) 41,8 s
Aston Martin Vanquish S (AMS) 57,1 s

I am impressed...

[Ruergard]

Well, hitting 200 km/h in 13 seconds is damn quick. Hitting 300 km/h in around 35 seconds is even more insane with a 2 ton estate-car. Especially when you consider the size of the wheels..

I'm with Erik, impressive!

[Mr Balsen]

Sportec was on 22"
mtm on 21"
and abt on 20"

Such difference in wheel size is absolutely stupid. Every car should have had exactly the same wheel to compair fairly the performance between the three cars...

Frederic

[audi_ch]

We all want more, but all I can say is that 0-300 km/h in a 2.2 ton Estate in these times is a VERY good result.

The difference between 13,0 and 13,7 is more than you can imagine.

0-300 km/h

Abt 35,4 secs
Sportec 36,3
MTM 38,8


Compare with 0-300 km/h:

Porsche Carrera GT (AMS) 34,2 s
Mercedes SLR (Auto Bild) 34,8 s
Mercedes SLR (AMS) 36,9 s
Porsche 997 Turbo (AMS) 40,7 s
Corvette Z06 (AMS) 41,8 s
Aston Martin Vanquish S (AMS) 57,1 s

I am impressed...

Hi Erik

i do agree with you, it is a fantastic time for an estate, but be carefull with the source, it is sportcars= auto bild, Just remember they tested the new lambo lp560 with 34 sec to 300kmh.

The same lambo was at nardo speed test with almost same temperature, he made there 40 seks to 300kmh

the slr did 29 in the same nardo test z06 had 44 due to his long gearing

Hope on the next nardo is the rs6 involved as well, would be more comparative. A and the new gt2 did 36 sec.

And i dont believe that a tunned rs6 with wight horsepore ratio witch isnt that good as the porsche gt2, will take him

[mdk]

I am too impressed by the figures but there is something I do not understand.

Similar power output and torque tuned cars (MTM and ABT) seem to have big differences.
MTM seems much faster on 0-100 by 0,3 sec and 0,9 sec on 0-200 BUT dramatically slower by almost 5 sec on 200-300.

Maybe someone could explain reasons for such deviation.

Thanks,
Michalis

[Mr Balsen]

I am too impressed by the figures but there is something I do not understand.

Similar power output and torque tuned cars (MTM and ABT) seem to have big differences.
MTM seems much faster on 0-100 by 0,3 sec and 0,9 sec on 0-200 BUT dramatically slower by almost 5 sec on 200-300.

Maybe someone could explain reasons for such deviation.

Thanks,
Michalis


Wheel Diameter from my point of view. It impact greatly performance.

Frederic

[snoopra]

When we say "wheel size makes a differance", take into consideration that tire profiles can make all three "wheels" the same height, so rim size is not as important as tire size/height.

[audi_ch]

Wheel wight

[mdk]

True, wheel weight makes a difference and this should be evident at the 0-100 and 0-200 as well.
Remind you that MTM (21") was faster in both 0-100 and 0-200 from the ABT (20") but slower at the last stage (200-300) by almost 5 seconds!!!

[Michaël Barbé]

From the moment I read the results I wanted to know what the times would be if they all would run on 20inches! I would never put bigger alloys on a car then that.

MB
:rs6kiss:

[audi_ch]

From the moment I read the results I wanted to know what the times would be if they all would run on 20inches! I would never put bigger alloys on a car then that.

MB
:rs6kiss:

abt is on 20"

Sportec has 650 hp and is faster on 22" than mtm on 21".. a bit strange

[Michaël Barbé]

abt is on 20"

Sportec has 650 hp and is faster on 22" than mtm on 21".. a bit strange

Indeed... Balsen: any comments on that?


MB
:rs6kiss:

[Erik]

This race would be funny, with a dog in the back (of the Avant)

0-300 km/h

Abt 35,4 secs
Sportec 36,3


:harass: Porsche 997/911 GT2 (AMS) 36,2 s :rotflmao:

BMW-Alpina B6 S (E63) 41,5
Alpina B6 V8 Kompressor 49,9

[Michaël Barbé]

The scans of the article: one of the first pictures the RS6 R (MTM) looks sooooo GOOD!

http://www.mtm-online.de/imgneu/presseberichte/presseberichte_319_Bericht.pdf

MB
:rs6kiss:

[Ruergard]

That's one sexy ass... :love2:

[KK265]

Does anybody know how much lighter is the saloon version of RS6 (vs avant)?

[The RS6]

Does anybody know how much lighter is the saloon version of RS6 (vs avant)?

According to this: http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?p=139038#post139038 the difference is about 70kg!

[mdk]

According to the thread and audi's site difference is 40Kg.

Back to the topic, I still believe that there is some problem (typo?) with the figures in the magazine.

[Michaël Barbé]

I still believe that there is some problem (typo?) with the figures in the magazine.
What do you mean mdk?

MB
:rs6kiss:

[mdk]

What do you mean mdk?

Please see the table, as presented by the magazine, and look at the figures I've added.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2374/abtvsmtmqj8.jpg


You will notice that although MTM has been substantially faster from 0 to 250 Km/h (a whole 1 second faster!) it takes 4.4 seconds more than the ABT to do from 250Km/h to 300Km/h :eye:

I can find no logical explanation for such difference in performance hence I guess these 38.8s on MTM column it's a typing error.

Michalis

[KK265]

Please see the table, as presented by the magazine, and look at the figures I've added.




You will notice that although MTM has been substantially faster from 0 to 250 Km/h (a whole 1 second faster!) it takes 4.4 seconds more than the ABT to do from 250Km/h to 300Km/h :eye:

I can find no logical explanation for such difference in performance hence I guess these 38.8s on MTM column it's a typing error.

Michalis

The problem is more complicated if you see 200-300 km/h times between MTM and ABT.

[Kram]

I don't know this case, but I saw something similar with turbochargers cars using different tuner maps. (Audi RS4 v6tt)
Because of difference in ignition and boost maps, on high speed runs, some cars tends to build too much heat from overboost on the first phase of acceleration and the ECU pulls back ignition advance.

It could be the same here.

[Michaël Barbé]

Please see the table, as presented by the magazine, and look at the figures I've added.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2374/abtvsmtmqj8.jpg


You will notice that although MTM has been substantially faster from 0 to 250 Km/h (a whole 1 second faster!) it takes 4.4 seconds more than the ABT to do from 250Km/h to 300Km/h :eye:

I can find no logical explanation for such difference in performance hence I guess these 38.8s on MTM column it's a typing error.

Michalis
You're right! I wished Mr Balsen could give us an explanation right away!

MB
:rs6kiss:

[KK265]

I doubt about these(autobild) times 0-300km/h.According to this figures RS6 avant ABT is quicker between 200-300 km/h than a porsche 997 GT3 for example.See next videos times between 280 km/h and 300 km/h on speedo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKFo8eVu5yw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjNNlNwVfUA
Gt3 needs 9 secs and rs6 ABT v 10 needs 14 secs....
997 GT2 needs 6 secs :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFPPpgXc3ow
also 997 turbo stock is quicker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MrnvG1Zy2Q
All of us know 0-200 km/h times for these cars.

0-300 km/h

Abt 35,4 secs
Sportec 36,3
MTM 38,8


Compare with 0-300 km/h:

Porsche Carrera GT (AMS) 34,2 s
Mercedes SLR (Auto Bild) 34,8 s
Mercedes SLR (AMS) 36,9 s
Porsche 997 Turbo (AMS) 40,7 s
Corvette Z06 (AMS) 41,8 s
Aston Martin Vanquish S (AMS) 57,1 s

[audi_ch]

I doubt about these(autobild) times 0-300km/h.According to this figures RS6 avant ABT is quicker between 200-300 km/h than a porsche 997 GT3 for example.See next videos times between 280 km/h and 300 km/h on speedo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKFo8eVu5yw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjNNlNwVfUA
Gt3 needs 9 secs and rs6 ABT v 10 needs 14 secs....
997 GT2 needs 6 secs :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFPPpgXc3ow
also 997 turbo stock is quicker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MrnvG1Zy2Q
All of us know 0-200 km/h times for these cars.

0-300 km/h

Abt 35,4 secs
Sportec 36,3
MTM 38,8


Compare with 0-300 km/h:

Porsche Carrera GT (AMS) 34,2 s
Mercedes SLR (Auto Bild) 34,8 s
Mercedes SLR (AMS) 36,9 s
Porsche 997 Turbo (AMS) 40,7 s
Corvette Z06 (AMS) 41,8 s
Aston Martin Vanquish S (AMS) 57,1 s


thanks for that posting
i clearly agree with you.
the times 0-200 sems to me logical and wright, but the rs6 wouldnt be quicker than a carrera gt, slr or gt2.

specially all those cars are clearly faster up to 200 kmh, say around 10 secs, and there is know way that a care with a mutch bader horsepower/wight ratio (rs6) will make sutch a faster time from 200-300 then the cars mentiond above.gt, gt2 or slr

dont forget, it is sportcars, and this magasins belong to autobild, the tested once an sl 55 amg in about 12 secs for 0-200, later tests showed the same car in about 15 sec...

[MTMBerlin]

You're right! I wished Mr Balsen could give us an explanation right away!

MB
:rs6kiss:
Generally it is not a perfect test at all - all cars should have been tested with stock 20" wheels. Now assuming that it is no printing mistake (although 34.8s or 35.8s would make more sense at all):

My guess is, that the difference from 250-300 km/h is affected by the wheels and the software probably.
ABT uses 9x20" with 275/35/20 and MTM 10.5x21" on 285/30/21 - thats definetely more rotating mass. Even the Sportec RS6 is faster than the MTM RS6 by 2.5s and only 0.9s slower than the Abt (from 0-300km/h). Please remember - the Sportec RS6 has 10x22" on 265/30/22 and only 650bhp / 760Nm. (Maybe their power figures are lower than real)

The Sportec RS6 is equal with the MTM from 0-200km/h (13.0s) whereas the ABT loses 0.9s. Personally I don't think there is something wrong with MTM's software but it may be possible there is a lack of performance between 250-310. The heavier wheels make more sense to me because from 250km/h onwards that plays a bigger role than below that speed.

For the math cracks it is of course possible to calculate the moment of inertia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia

[mdk]

@MTMBerlin
Thanks for the input!

The figures we have from 250-300 km/h are:
ABT 14,1s, Sportec 15,5s and MTM 18,5s

So MTM is slower by 3s from the Sportec which carries the largest wheel size of the three hence I don't think it's a wheel inertia issue.

Maybe it's only software. But still the difference of 4s in 14s is huge.
Maybe MTM head offices could give you some opinion.

Michalis

[MTMBerlin]

@MTMBerlin
Thanks for the input!

The figures we have from 250-300 km/h are:
ABT 14,1s, Sportec 15,5s and MTM 18,5s

So MTM is slower by 3s from the Sportec which carries the largest wheel size of the three hence I don't think it's a wheel inertia issue.

Maybe it's only software. But still the difference of 4s in 14s is huge.
Maybe MTM head offices could give you some opinion.

Michalis

I'll try to get more information during the week from MTM. Also think of the tires... The difference from 10,5x21" to 10x22" is not that big (1 inch bigger, 1/2 inch less wide). That in mind combined with the tire sizes of only 265/30 Sportec to 285/30 MTM makes me think that the Sportec RS6 is nearly as powerful as the MTM / ABT RS6.

Does anyone have any weight information ? Would be interesting to know which wheel is heavier (I think the Sportec wheels are lighter - although being bigger)

[audi_ch]

I'll try to get more information during the week from MTM. Also think of the tires... The difference from 10,5x21" to 10x22" is not that big (1 inch bigger, 1/2 inch less wide). That in mind combined with the tire sizes of only 265/30 Sportec to 285/30 MTM makes me think that the Sportec RS6 is nearly as powerful as the MTM / ABT RS6.

Does anyone have any weight information ? Would be interesting to know which wheel is heavier (I think the Sportec wheels are lighter - although being bigger)

Sportec is known for his good quality and underrated hp figures, in Switzerland.

As well the whels from sportec are not as heavy as the 21 rims of mtm, so that could be a factor pro Sportec