Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at Nurburgring

[KresoF1]

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/

[7:53 RS6]

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/

Intressting to see Nissans respons to this.

I my world, I would never would belive a big company like Nissan would do somthing like this. All car manufatures alway buy and drive each others cars, so why would they do it.

They would know Porsche could easy test this.

[Leadfoot]

It's interesting that most magazine tests have found the GTR quicker on more normal race tracks, so unless the ring's need for speed is the deciding factor I am as puzzled with Porsche's findings as I am Nissans.

[RXBG]

what they need to do is get an engineer rep from each company to drive each car the same day under the same conditions.

the GTR time always sounded fishy to me. still does. unbelievable that a new GT2 can't come close to it.

".....but he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34....."

[Leadfoot]

what they need to do is get an engineer rep from each company to drive each car the same day under the same conditions.

the GTR time always sounded fishy to me. still does. unbelievable that a new GT2 can't come close to it.

".....but he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34....."

I wonder was the GTR still restricted to it's 112mph top speed. :lovl:

[Rutkowsky]

It is interesting to see how the situation develops from here now.. and i do believe the time of GT-R is correct. Porsche will need some hard evidence to prove their claims and just imagine if Porsche is wrong! lol

[Erik]

How much publicity can you get for ONE lap at the Nürburgring?



So the explaination from Porsche is that the Nissan GT-R had different tires and was 20 kgs heavier...? Wow, I think they need to improve their own engineering.

[AndyBG]

So, you all presume that Porsche is saying this only B/C can't make their cars better/quicker...?

[Leadfoot]

An independent party needs to prove whether this is true or not, just for Porsche to say it is so is the equivalent to Nissan saying that it took the 911 Turbo and GT2 to the ring and found that the GTR was miles quicker and Porsche's lap times were fake.

Get my drift.

Anyway Audi have already said the R8v10 will be quicker than all of them with it's blackout engine bay. Secretly housing a Veyron engine :hahahehe: and calling it a stock production example. :p

[inF]

http://www.drivers-republic.com/community/groups/social/blog/?blogid=79b8efbd7f6b4d4ab2ef0104adf46650

[Z07]

Apparently Nissan have responded by counter-accusing Porsche of cheating with the GT2 lap time. A Nissan engineer lapped the 'ring in a Micra and then in the GT2 and couldn't get within a minute of the Micra time in a GT2.

[AndyBG]

That isn't so far from true... Nissans ''engineer'' can't drive Porsche... :D

[Leadfoot]

http://www.drivers-republic.com/community/groups/social/blog/?blogid=79b8efbd7f6b4d4ab2ef0104adf46650

This is still a race track test, you can't compare a smooth track with something as rough as the ring. Though both cars were honed on the ring and unless the Porsche performs better than the GTR in such conditions which I doubt then I can't see how a 911 Turbo could be as quick.

[Erik]

Could there be a connection?

So saved by the Cayennes and the future is in the Panamera? Wow....


Porsche Full-Year Sales Rise 1.3% on Cayenne Growth

Oct. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Porsche SE, maker of the 911 sports car, said full-year sales rose 1.3 percent as customers bought more Cayenne sport-utility vehicles.

Revenue in the 12 months through July 31 increased to 7.46 billion euros ($10.5 billion), Stuttgart, Germany-based Porsche said in a statement today, without giving a year-earlier figure. Deliveries of cars and SUVs rose 1.2 percent to 98,652 vehicles.

``The Cayenne model range was the driving force behind Porsche's growth course,'' the company said, noting deliveries of the SUV jumped 34 percent to 45,478.

Chief Executive Officer Wendelin Wiedeking introduced a more fuel-efficient model of the Cayenne in early 2007 and has added versions of the SUV and the 911 since then to attract car buyers. Turbulence in global financial markets makes predicting earnings ``difficult,'' the company said today.

Porsche fell as much as 8.47 euros, or 11 percent, to 67.33 euros and was down 9.9 percent as of 10:47 a.m. in Frankfurt trading. The stock has dropped 50 percent this year, valuing the carmaker at about 11.9 billion euros.

Sales were propelled by increases in China and the Middle East, offsetting declines of 3.1 percent in North America and 5.5 percent in Germany, Porsche said. The Panamera four-door sports sedan :rolleyes: will provide ``the next incentive to growth'' when it's introduced in the fiscal year ending in July 2010.

Deliveries of the 911, including the $190,000 GT2 version that can exceed 200 miles (320 kilometers) per hour as well as the Turbo convertible, fell 16 percent to 31,423 cars. Sales of the less-costly Boxster, including the Cayman model, fell 16.8 percent to 21,747 cars.

[M3 owner]

I am certain that the Porsche engineer driving the GTR was really motivated to beat the cars he helped create. (sarcasm intended) Pathetic! I was expecting Porsche to release a Turbo that would topple the new king but instead they behave like a spoilt brat.

[Erik]

I am certain that the Porsche engineer driving the GTR was really motivated to beat the cars he helped create. (sarcasm intended) Pathetic! I was expecting Porsche to release a Turbo that would topple the new king but instead they behave like a spoilt brat.

Hehe, they need a GT2 S to do that.

[Leadfoot]

Tell me, is there any road test that has been conducted where the 997 Turbo has been quicker round the track than the GTR?

I'm struggling to think of any proper road car that has proved to be quicker with the possible exception of the Viper, and it's debatable if one could class it as a full blown road car.

Watch this and see if you still believe that Porsche aren't bull shitting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBKLPIM7_k0

Better still, this one shows the sheer speed at which the GTR can attack a corner compared to the competition. INCREDIBLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HsTHK13FKY&feature=related

[Z07]

Tell me, is there any road test that has been conducted where the 997 Turbo has been quicker round the track than the GTR?
No. In fact the GTR has compared well with and even beaten the GT2 50% of the time. With reference to the R&T group test. The GTR comprehensively beat the GT2 at Willow Springs and Streets of Willow (the 2 proper race courses). The GT2 marginally beat the GTR on a short Autocross and an Oval Speedway. The GTR beat the GT2 overall, finishing just behind the LP560 and ACR:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6939

I think it's also safe to say that if the GTR got within 1s of a Scuderia on a 3 minute lap of VIR, it would have beaten the GT2 there too:

http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/122224/1656509/version/1/file/The+Lightning+Lap%2C+2008+Results.pdf

Notice how the GTR can back up its claims with results, whereas the 911s can only back up their claims with whinging from 6speedonline.



I'm struggling to think of any proper road car that has proved to be quicker with the possible exception of the Viper, and it's debatable if one could class it as a full blown road car.
It's a road car in the same way that a Caterham 500R is. I find the ZR-1 more impressive than the ACR as a complete package, even if it's a bit slower on track.



Watch this and see if you still believe that Porsche aren't bull shitting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBKLPIM7_k0

Better still, this one shows the sheer speed at which the GTR can attack a corner compared to the competition. INCREDIBLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HsTHK13FKY&feature=related
It's all fake Leadie.;) :hihi:

I think on this Isle of Man test, a GT2 would have ended up conversing with the sheep.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=235168&CT=V

[Benman]

No. In fact the GTR has compared well with and even beaten the GT2 50% of the time.

Notice how the GTR can back up its claims with results, whereas the 911s can only back up their claims with whinging from 6speedonline.




Don't you just love when those that forked out more $$$ for a performance car cry when a much more affordable one bests their's? :D

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

I think on this Isle of Man test, a GT2 would have ended up conversing with the sheep.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=235168&CT=V

You are probably right, and with more own experience of rwd 911s I would say he would have made it no further than half way.

P.S.
If he did happen to spend some time with the sheep, I hope he would remember to pack he velcro gloves. :hahahehe:

[Benman]

If he did happen to spend some time with the sheep, I hope he would remember to pack he velcro gloves. :hahahehe:


Dude, that is sooooo wrong. I think Klint should be chiming in shortly... :jlol:

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Dude, that is sooooo wrong. I think Klint should be chiming in shortly... :jlol:

Ben:addict:

Don't knock it until you've tried it. :hihi:

[7:53 RS6]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XzEivL1Kruo&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lnmpIqFoYtg

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VaBnXrixmMM&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TAjLY5QrirU&feature=related

This last vid is like well, its a fun film but its not telling us that much is it.

All other vid do tell us somthing.

Well anyway, I would say the Datsun Micra Vitara Swift GTR...is the shit.:deal:

[Erik]

From Nissan: :deal:

"The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tyres which are available to customers in the showroom.They're not trick tyres - absolutely standard tyres, normal road tyres."

- http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=57410&vf=12

:argue:

[Z07]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XzEivL1Kruo&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lnmpIqFoYtg

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VaBnXrixmMM&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TAjLY5QrirU&feature=related

This last vid is like well, its a fun film but its not telling us that much is it.

All other vid do tell us somthing.

Well anyway, I would say the Datsun Micra Vitara Swift GTR...is the shit.:deal:

The GTR used F1 qualifying slicks in all these tests.:nono:

;)

[7:53 RS6]

The GTR used F1 qualifying slicks in all these tests.:nono:

;)

its only Porsche that belive that no one else:lovl:

[Z07]

its only Porsche that belive that no one else:lovl:
Everyone else is in on the conspiracy. I myself received £100k from Nissan GB the other day to continue their lies on the internet. The GTR is the Manchurion Coupe.


:hihi:

[Leadfoot]

Everyone else is in on the conspiracy. I myself received £100k from Nissan GB the other day to continue their lies on the internet. The GTR is the Manchurion Coupe.


:hihi:


SHIT :vgrumpy:

That's more than I got. :hihi:

[Z07]

SHIT :vgrumpy:

That's more than I got. :hihi:
I'm a Capo in the Datsun mafia. I out-rank you.:hihi:

[Z07]

Road and Track - Mines GTR vs Spoon NSX-R GT vs Cadillac CTS D3 vs TechArt GT Street
(Video link at top)
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=7074

[Roger]

The GTR used F1 qualifying slicks in all these tests.:nono:

;)

wrong !!

[s4]

All these stories with Nurburing lap time are boring, the time record is so depending about weather, temperature, humidity, drivers, etc.. That it makes no sense in the end..

What would be nice it's to have all these cars from a showroom the same day on track with one driver and see the 'true' results.

[Roger]

All these stories with Nurburing lap time are boring, the time record is so depending about weather, temperature, humidity, drivers, etc.. That it makes no sense in the end..

What would be nice it's to have all these cars from a showroom the same day on track with one driver and see the 'true' results.

Maybe you've heard of Motor Trend, Car and Driver, R&T, Winding Road, Driver's Republic, Autocar, etc., etc. Every single one found the GT-R to be faster around the track then a 911 TT. Many source their cars independantly, not from the manufacturer, they all see what kind of tires, etc. You're right the ring doesn't mean anything on it's own, but when virtually ALL the enthusiast press finds the same results it means something.

[Z07]

wrong !!
;) = sarcasm.

[Roger]

I'm Smart ;)

[KK265]

I'm Smart ;)
Nissan's answer:
http://www.autospies.com/news/Nissan-offers-Porsche-free-driving-tips-35832/

[Leadfoot]

Nissan's are wise, just stick to the facts and not get involved in a mud slinging match as all it does is lower yourself to your opponent.

Roger is correct, the body of evidence is very much stacked in Nissan's favour. Unless they bought out all of the motoring press in every country I can't see how Porsche's accusations can give the public any other opinion than Porsche are clutching at straws and should either put up or shut up.

Also S4 is correct, the ring is nothing more than one upmanship in the motoring world. There is too many variables to benefit or wreck a lap that you can't look at the times achieved as say one car is better or quicker than another within reason, said 6~8s per lap.

The only thing that Porsche can say is the two Porsches in question (GT2 and Turbo) are quicker in a straight line.

[KK265]

Nissan's are wise, just stick to the facts and not get involved in a mud slinging match as all it does is lower yourself to your opponent.

Roger is correct, the body of evidence is very much stacked in Nissan's favour. Unless they bought out all of the motoring press in every country I can't see how Porsche's accusations can give the public any other opinion than Porsche are clutching at straws and should either put up or shut up.

Also S4 is correct, the ring is nothing more than one upmanship in the motoring world. There is too many variables to benefit or wreck a lap that you can't look at the times achieved as say one car is better or quicker than another within reason, said 6~8s per lap.

The only thing that Porsche can say is the two Porsches in question (GT2 and Turbo) are quicker in a straight line.
In Greek edition of EVO magazine Walter Rohrl gave an interview (he came to Greece because solo distributor made new bigger settlements-opening day).He says that is impossible for GTR to do lower time than 997 turbo because of weight and height.

[M3 owner]

Did Porsche make any comments about the time posted by the Corvette ?

[Z07]

Porsche need to get over themselves. They've led a sheltered life over the past 2 decades due to the 280bhp gentleman's agreement in Japan. The truth is that the R32 GTR could have been released with 400bhp 20 years ago and removed Porsche from the limelight back then.

Now the 280bhp limit is gone it's only a matter of time before Porsche are destroyed by any number of Japanese cars. First the GTR, then the V-Spec, then the LF-A, then the new NSX. Their horsepower advantage was very much the only thing protecting them.

[Leadfoot]

Porsche need to get over themselves. They've led a sheltered life over the past 2 decades due to the 280bhp gentleman's agreement in Japan. The truth is that the R32 GTR could have been released with 400bhp 20 years ago and removed Porsche from the limelight back then.

Now the 280bhp limit is gone it's only a matter of time before Porsche are destroyed by any number of Japanese cars. First the GTR, then the V-Spec, then the LF-A, then the new NSX. Their horsepower advantage was very much the only thing protecting them.

Z07,

This is a very misleading statement from you. Everyone knows that none of the Japanese manufacturers stuck to this 280ps agreement, maybe on paper their quoted output was only this but the reality was very different, with many people quoting the true figures to be anything from 325hp~360hp depending on make and model.

Though I do agree that the rest of the sportscar/supercar establishment should take note because the Japs are coming to take over if they aren't careful.

[Z07]

Z07,

This is a very misleading statement from you. Everyone knows that none of the Japanese manufacturers stuck to this 280ps agreement, maybe on paper their quoted output was only this but the reality was very different, with many people quoting the true figures to be anything from 325hp~360hp depending on make and model.

Though I do agree that the rest of the sportscar/supercar establishment should take note because the Japs are coming to take over if they aren't careful.
Everyone knows the 280bhp limit was discretely side-stepped but in order to keep the side-stepping discrete, power outputs still needed to be ball-park, or within ~25%. Now the limit is gone, twice that output is permissible and all hell is going to break loose.