New S4

[RXBG]

http://www.audiworld.com/news/08/b8-s4-debut/

[India Whiskey Charlie]

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Audi_News/article_4336.shtml :s4Addict:

[artur777]

Finally the QTV is here:-)
Waiting for RS5 and RS4 soon!

[011]

http://pics.autonews.ru/autonews_pics/onews/2008/09/23/120554.24439.jpg

[011]

http://pics.autonews.ru/autonews_pics/onews/2008/09/23/120538.24405.jpg

[011]

http://audi-club.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=110742&stc=1&d=1222148503

[roadrunner]

Besides look and performance (0-100 in 5,1 Sec is pretty steep :thumb: )

fuel consumption sedan: 9,7 L / 100 KM = -3,4 L compared to old S4 (B6/B7)

Now that i call "efficient dynamics" :hahahehe:

[Marv]

QTV and S-Tronic, that's more than I was hoping for (rumours, posted here I think) said that one or both would be delayed.

Question is when can we buy one? (in Europe)

Marv

[roadrunner]

QTV and S-Tronic, that's more than I was hoping for (rumours, posted here I think) said that one or both would be delayed.

Question is when can we buy one? (in Europe)

Marv

Presentation Oct. in Paris

Deliveries: March 2009

cheers
seb.

[RXBG]

Presentation Oct. in Paris

Deliveries: March 2009

cheers
seb.

del march 09 for USA. EU will likely get dec or jan, no?

[011]

QTV and S-Tronic, that's more than I was hoping for (rumours, posted here I think) said that one or both would be delayed. (in Europe)
Marv

On Audi.de, they already advertise S-tronic like option.

[roadrunner]

del march 09 for USA. EU will likely get dec or jan, no?

According to fourtitude:

USA market launch is Fall 2009, as a 2010 model year vehicle

cheers
seb.

[RXBG]

According to fourtitude:

USA market launch is Fall 2009, as a 2010 model year vehicle

cheers
seb.

the us highlight press release says 3/09 for us deliveries and elsewhere it actually says "on sale fall 2008" which i think is a misprint.

[Damienr8]

Looks ok, still think that the car is too big for it's own good.

[Benman]

I am happily eating my crow pie on the economy front. 24.25mpg highway is definately better than what I thought the car would do, especially with 333hp. Great job Audi, kudos! :thumb: I am very interested in seeing how it compares to the infamous B5. :)

Ben:addict:

[The Pretender]

Would like to see the S4 sedan in black with different wheels in Titanium color.
Also like to see what tuning potential de engine have. (360-400 hp ?)

Jarod.

[Ruergard]

QTV and S-Tronic, I do like that!

And the rest as well ofcourse... As Jarod wrote, I'd like to see what potential this engine have tuningwise. :D

[011]

Would like to see the S4 sedan in black with different wheels in Titanium color.
Also like to see what tuning potential de engine have. (360-400 hp ?)

Jarod.

My speculation,
Hardly more than +30hp, all depends on what speed will rotate SC. It must be taken into consideration that higher it spins less efficient is. Also there is boost limit on it ~14 PSI (1 Bar).
If we know that same set up will be on 290Hp A6 than it is likely that on S4 boost is more close to 11Psi, so not much space to play. Each PSI is max ~15Hp.

[Erik]

The Kompressor / Supercharger is made by Eaton.

It spins at 23.000 rpm max, and sits inbetween the head gaskets in the V of the engine. So it must be rather small.

I'm also "worried" that the tuning capabilities might not be extreme.

However, I do like the car.

Strange development:

V6 Biturbo
V8 N/A
V6 Kompressor...

What is next? :D

[PeterJohn]

Torque drops of pretty quikly, but I guess that's what the 7 gears are for. This also means that the piek hp-number is lower, which some people have of course pointed out. But people who are looking to improve their Nordschleife time aren't going to do that with a S4 anyway, so who cares.

This looks like a great package that doesn't need more hpees. It's another "real-world-performance" car, that we've come to know from Audi. And judging by the amount of S5s and S6es I see on the road, compared to other offerings of the high revving variety, the market likes these cars.

[The RS6]

Strange development:

V6 Biturbo
V8 N/A
V6 Kompressor...

What is next? :D

All together :D

High-reving, biturbo with a kompressor :D

[Leadfoot]

Finally the full specs have broke on the S4 and we finally know for sure what's going to be there. The engine specs have been known for some time and as PJ points out the torque drops as the revs increase, maybe this has something to do with why it's peak power is level over the last 1500rpm instead of a steady risen that is customary.

Great news that both S/Tronic and Torque Vectoring is making it to the party, shame they are extras but then they do need to re-coup the development costs of both. ;)

Unlike PJ I think this thing will post some pretty decent times on the ring, OK you do need a lot of power to get very quick times but Renault showed that handling is still the key to the first 20+seconds improvement and the final 5~10 seconds is purely power. If the S5 did a 8:25 then I am hoping for a 8:10~15 from a fully specced S4 with S/Tronic and Quattro3.

[The Pretender]

How is the S4's weight compare to the S5. ?

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

How is the S4's weight compare to the S5. ?

Jarod.

I'm guessing that the 3.0TFSi engine and the 4.2FSi weigh roughly the same. If you base what we know about the stock A4 vs the equivalent A5, the A4 weighs roughly 45Kgs more.

So I reckon a stock S4 without S/Tronic or Quattro3 will be 1680Kgs (+ - 10~15Kgs).

Far too heavy I know but there you are.

[India Whiskey Charlie]

According to Audi's press release, the V6 weighs less than the 4.2 V8:

"Audi's not giving away much more at the moment, but even with a gain in weight of 27 pounds over the existing naturally aspirated V6, the new engine--hailing from Audi's factory in Gyor, Hungary--is still lighter than the V8 it replaces. That means less mass up front. And because it sits in a newly engineered bay with the front differential positioned ahead of the clutch, as in all new Audi models using a longitudinal engine mounting, it is positioned six inches farther rearward than the old V8 in a move that improves overall front-to-rear weight distribution."

[Leadfoot]

According to Audi's press release, the V6 weighs less than the 4.2 V8:

"Audi's not giving away much more at the moment, but even with a gain in weight of 27 pounds over the existing naturally aspirated V6, the new engine--hailing from Audi's factory in Gyor, Hungary--is still lighter than the V8 it replaces. That means less mass up front. And because it sits in a newly engineered bay with the front differential positioned ahead of the clutch, as in all new Audi models using a longitudinal engine mounting, it is positioned six inches farther rearward than the old V8 in a move that improves overall front-to-rear weight distribution."

It maybe lighter than the 4.2FSi but by how much. I still think my estimates are about right given the limited info on body and suspension parts.

[RXBG]

It maybe lighter than the 4.2FSi but by how much. I still think my estimates are about right given the limited info on body and suspension parts.

even if it weighs less by only one kilo- it makes more torque and saves 26% more gas and overall the car is faster as well. it is a no brainer. much superior engine. can't wait to see it in the S5. this is a foregone conclusion at this point. and i wouldn't be surprised if it got a bit more compression to produce perhaps a bit more power and torque in that car.

[HKS786]

even if it weighs less by only one kilo- it makes more torque and saves 26% more gas and overall the car is faster as well. it is a no brainer. much superior engine. can't wait to see it in the S5. this is a foregone conclusion at this point. and i wouldn't be surprised if it got a bit more compression to produce perhaps a bit more power and torque in that car.

+1

Also the fact that it's a V6 which is shorter than a V8.

[011]

It maybe lighter than the 4.2FSi but by how much. I still think my estimates are about right given the limited info on body and suspension parts.

I think I saw somewhere -10kg (~22lbs)

[rks838]

One little thing - Motor Trend got the 2004 S4 to go from 0-60mph in 4.99 seconds. The new one has less horsepower - that's a little weird - I'd like to see it at least match the figure from 5 years ago!

BUT, one thing to remember - the S4 does not compete with the M3 anymore. It competes with the 335i Coupe, which btw actually has way more than 300hp, so it's 333hp is still in the ballpark for its league.

[PeterJohn]

Unlike PJ I think this thing will post some pretty decent times on the ring, OK you do need a lot of power to get very quick times but Renault showed that handling is still the key to the first 20+seconds improvement and the final 5~10 seconds is purely power. If the S5 did a 8:25 then I am hoping for a 8:10~15 from a fully specced S4 with S/Tronic and Quattro3.

Well, it won't be slow. With 7 gears you'll rarely find yourself outside the powerband. But you will miss that top end acceleration from time to time, and it will be a complaint when journalists get behind the wheel.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. I drive a Diesel, so I don't mind: can't miss top end power if you've never had it. I think it's a great package. But just a little 'heads up' to the audi fans here. Some of you, in my experience, tend to get a little over excited about new models, and then disappointed when they don't live up to the fanatasy.

[Leadfoot]

Well, it won't be slow. With 7 gears you'll rarely find yourself outside the powerband. But you will miss that top end acceleration from time to time, and it will be a complaint when journalists get behind the wheel.

Journalists seldom complained about the Audi engines or any of the transmission quality, it was usually about the driver involvement and how the cars were as adjustable as rwd cars. So far the only reviews I have read are on the engine in the A6 and it has received nothing but praise concerning the engine, I can't imagine the S4 will be any different.


Can't have your cake and eat it too. I drive a Diesel, so I don't mind: can't miss top end power if you've never had it. I think it's a great package. But just a little 'heads up' to the audi fans here. Some of you, in my experience, tend to get a little over excited about new models, and then disappointed when they don't live up to the fanatasy.

As a fellow diesel owner from time to time I know what you mean about top end grunt, but you can not compare a diesel engine with a petrol when debating such things, the diesels power band is very narrow, usually within 3000 revs while a petrol, even one like the S4 will have a band width of closer to 5500 revs and will also not have the same power on - power off characteristics of a diesel engine, even a good one.

I agree we all hype up future cars, but it's only the journalists which seem to complain with whats on offer.

[emve]

Any insight on acceleration ? 0-200km/h for a DSG version ?

[Leadfoot]

Any insight on acceleration ? 0-200km/h for a DSG version ?


No actual data to go from but one can make a pretty good stab at it based on data from other cars of similar weight, power, drive train, etc.

If the 0-100km/h is a quoted 5.1s (manual) and we know Audi are a bit conversative I would said a time of 4.8s is on the cards for the S/Tronic. That might mean a 160km/h of 11.5~11.8s and a 200km/h of 17.8~18.3s. :thumb:

[emve]

Thats perfectly along with my expectations. :thumb:

Thats slightly faster than a manual S5, right ? I expect the 3,0T 333hp to be at least as fast as 4,2l 354hp in the same car considering very nice torque/power curve. And with a 7-speed DSG it can be slightly faster.

[The Pretender]

The 5.0TFSI engine for the S8 is right, i'm not sure about the power output.
395 is the number i know.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

The 5.0TFSI engine for the S8 is right, i'm not sure about the power output.
395 is the number i know.

Jarod.

Jarod mate, I think you were a little confused when you wrote this reply. :lovl:

[The Pretender]

Jarod mate, I think you were a little confused when you wrote this reply. :lovl:
I was referring to the 420 hp

Jarod.

[artur777]

395 hp is 4.0 TFSI engine

Btw - my predictions for S4 0-200 are 19-20 secs.
Compressor is good at lows and not very good after 150 kmh...

Remember e55 vs e63 e55 is always faster up to 160 but after that e63 becomes faster...

[Leadfoot]

395 hp is 4.0 TFSI engine

Btw - my predictions for S4 0-200 are 19-20 secs.
Compressor is good at lows and not very good after 150 kmh...

Remember e55 vs e63 e55 is always faster up to 160 but after that e63 becomes faster...

You may be right about the S4, time will tell. ;)

Regarding the E55 vs E63, you also have to take into account the fact the E55 is a 5 speed while the E63 is a 7 speed and a much quicker shift. Given the same gearbox I know which one I would be placing my money on. :D

[artur777]

Leadfoot - absolutely agree!!
I will put my money on e55 in case it has 7sp:-)
you too I imagine?

[Leadfoot]

Here's my thinking on why I think the less than 19 seconds is a possibility. S/Tronic is dual clutch technology and it usually gives a gain of 0.2~0.3s per shift because that is what the manufacturers quote 0-100km/h, but that just one shift and the easiest of all (1st to 2nd gear), when you shift to 3rd you are going acroos the gate which is doubt to increase that time by another 0.2s over and above the previous shift.

Still with me, now my S4v8 required 5th gear to get to 125mph which meant 2 shifts across the gate, that adds up to 0.2s + 0.4s + 0.2s + 0.4s = 1.2s.

The S/Tronic shifts in 0.03~0.05s (actually time with zero acceleration) so if it's gearing is similar to the S4's 6 gears with 7th as an economy gear it will require no more gears to achieve the same speed, thus it will improve it's time over a manual by roughly 1 second to the same speed.

I pretty confident that it will match if not better the manual S5's time of 18.3s.

[Xpower]

Leadfoot - absolutely agree!!
I will put my money on e55 in case it has 7sp:-)
you too I imagine?

Actually that has nothing to do with it. Have a look at the ratio's in the 7g-tronic. There are 2 over-drive gears. The 1st 5 ratio's do not give it an advantage over the 55. & anyway, each car has ratios suited to the engine characteristics and power curve of each engine. The big torque 55 with a wide torque plateau needs long gears. Giving shorter ratio's would not necessarily make it better.

A high revving engine with a high rpm power peak needs short ratio's to keep it up there. You wouldn't want an E55 to stay up there. You want it to make use of it's midrange in a race.

If the E55 was 7 spd, the E63 would still be faster as it has a better high rpm powerband.

[Xpower]

Here's my thinking on why I think the less than 19 seconds is a possibility. S/Tronic is dual clutch technology and it usually gives a gain of 0.2~0.3s per shift because that is what the manufacturers quote 0-100km/h, but that just one shift and the easiest of all (1st to 2nd gear), when you shift to 3rd you are going acroos the gate which is doubt to increase that time by another 0.2s over and above the previous shift.

Still with me, now my S4v8 required 5th gear to get to 125mph which meant 2 shifts across the gate, that adds up to 0.2s + 0.4s + 0.2s + 0.4s = 1.2s.

The S/Tronic shifts in 0.03~0.05s (actually time with zero acceleration) so if it's gearing is similar to the S4's 6 gears with 7th as an economy gear it will require no more gears to achieve the same speed, thus it will improve it's time over a manual by roughly 1 second to the same speed.

I pretty confident that it will match if not better the manual S5's time of 18.3s.

You can't subtract time like that. When you change gears you do not stand still. If you dip the clutch at 100mph to change to 4th, you stop accelerating. But you still travel at 100mph for the duration of the shift. You are covering ground.

[Leadfoot]

You can't subtract time like that. When you change gears you do not stand still. If you dip the clutch at 100mph to change to 4th, you stop accelerating. But you still travel at 100mph for the duration of the shift. You are covering ground.

You are sort of correct and that is why I say it improves the time on speed and not on distance, like the 1/4mile run.

But lets discuss your opinion more closely, you say you are still travelling at 100mph when you shift gear, aah no, once your break the acceleration friction from the drive train, tyres and wind resistance all have an effect to stop your progress. So though you may only slow by a small amount you are still slowing none the less.

Now to the shift times themselves, it is generally agreed that it takes about 0.2~0.3s minimum to shift gear in a manual car, something very few people are capable of and this will be the straight shift and not the shift which you are going across the gate. With S/Tronic all of these shift are completed in a few hundredth of a second (0.03s) so while the remaining 0.17~0.27s that the manual is still completing it's shift the Dual Clutch is already accelerating at full power and in doing so will be increasing it's speed in the early shift by about 2~3mph though this will drop off as the speed increases, my guess is that over 4 shift (remember the cross shifts will take slightly longer) it will account for about 8mph.

The only thing that might change this outcome is the launch which with a semi-auto is taken out of your hands and not always for the best. So if all thing are equal and both get an equally good launch the manual and the DCT car may only be about 0.2~0.3s of difference at the end of the 1/4mile run the DCT car will be traveling a good 5mph faster, maybe more.

[ZeroCool]

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Events/Paris%20Auto%20Show/2008/Volkswagen%20Group=Night%20of%20Driving%20Ideas/020.jpg

What do you think about the V6 T? I really don't like it...V8, V10 ok ... but V6 T?

[tvrfan]

yeah V6 Tfsi would be better

[ZeroCool]

no TFSI would be too long! if i'd put something there it would MAYBE be only a V6

[The Pretender]

No engine destination only supercharged. ;)

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

I would prefer just a S4 badge on the flanks instead on engine cylinder count, but Audi started it with the S8 and it's now tradition to place this on all S models.

[The Pretender]

I would prefer just a S4 badge on the flanks instead on engine cylinder count, but Audi started it with the S8 and it's now tradition to place this on all S models.
Except for the TT-S.
But i would remove it anyway, even the S4 on the back.

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVkoyhSC0GM&eurl=http://www.audiblog.nl/?p=5610

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

http://www.autozeitung.de/files/images/02634/az23_08_042_FB_AudiS4.jpg

Jarod.

[The RS6]

S is for sideways

http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews.html?mode=article&id=3067

[The Pretender]

http://www.autozeitung.de/files/images/02617/PC05_08_023_NeuAudiS4.jpg (http://www.autozeitung.de/node/261717/6/700/popup)

Jarod.

[HKS786]

Hans

I tried to find the links for these reviews, no luck. Can you give me the links? thanks!

[The Pretender]

They are not yet online, they are previews of the magazines in the stores.
When the next issue are in the stores these will come online i think.

Jarod.

[The RS6]

No V8, but Still Thrilling. Really

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=134769?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1 .*

[The RS6]

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Features/article_4431.shtml

[Leadfoot]

I like the way they say it drives more like a BMW (i.e. rwd car) with the ability to throw the tail and become playful.

Now all that is needed is another 100+hp and some RS badges.

[Marv]

Check this out from Evo magazine:dig: - this car is a beast!

http://i37.tinypic.com/6f1nbq.jpg

[OfftheHeZie]

Grrr. Wish I could see that Marv, but from everything thing else - it looks sweeeet. Also, very pretty. :s4Addict:

I was skeptical about the QTV change - just didn't seem Audi-like - but it must be working.

~Mason

[Marv]

Grrr. Wish I could see that Marv, but from everything thing else - it looks sweeeet. Also, very pretty. :s4Addict:

I was skeptical about the QTV change - just didn't seem Audi-like - but it must be working.

~Mason

I uploaded it onto a free image hosting site but it's killed the quality. If anyone is prepared to host it I can mail it over. For Evo (who are not massively pro Audi) it is a great review.

[Marv]

Try this one instead, I've found the bit that let's me change the resolution when I upload:applause:It's better but still not brilliant

http://i37.tinypic.com/hw0ldd.jpg

[Leadfoot]

Another great write up for the sport diff and even more evidence that Audi are intending to combine supercharger and turbo technologies to achieve the desired result while reducing the possible nose weight.

Audi do look to be taking over the position that BMW once held as the only real driver's choice.

I am looking forward to seeing how it compares to the 335i. Me thinks the BMW will get soundly beaten on this occasion.

P.S.
Just imagine what difference this diff will make to the already brilliant Q5 and A5. :hahahehe:

[OfftheHeZie]

Thanks Marv. Sounds outstanding... and the hint about the combo of turbo-charger to the supercharger puts a bigger smile on the face. :bow:

~Mason

[Damienr8]

Wow, evo sure does sound impressed. I am also looking forward to seeing a direct comparison between the 335xi sedan and the S4.

[Ruergard]

Sounds like QTV does the trick. The EVO review is good, very good!

[The Pretender]

http://magazines.drivers-republic.com/driversrepublic/futureproof028/?sub_id=5nIGSrgJbBdH?fm=2

Jarod.

[Mockenrue]

^Michaël Barbé posted that review up yesterday. Excellent write-up, both in terms of content and presentation.

[The RS6]

2009 Audi S4 First Drive: Pray for Rain
http://www.audiworld.com/news/08/b8-s4-first-drive/

Vitamin S
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/first_steer/Motive_First_Steer_2010_Audi_S4.shtml

[The Pretender]

http://www.autobild.de/autobild-tv/?clip_id=1008

Jarod.

[artur777]

what is expected S4 time in the Ring?
comparing it to S5 we will see the advantages of this very tricky diff:-)

[The Pretender]

what is expected S4 time in the Ring?
comparing it to S5 we will see the advantages of this very tricky diff:-)
5-15 secs faster.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

5-15 secs faster.

Jarod.

That is roughly the same as I said. So in theory the S4 could be almost as quick as an M5 around the ring or even possibly as quick as the RS4.

Now that is a good omen for the B8 RS4. :hahahehe:

[The Pretender]

Now that is a good omen for the B8 RS4. :hahahehe:
Not if it get a V8, it will kill the ride with that big heavy engine.
But power is a solution to composate that on the straits.

Jarod.

[QuattroFun]

I am warming up for the new S4 sedan - harsh times like these could mean that I pass on the upcoming RS5/RS4 and settle for the S4. No it will not be as fast as my B7 RS4, but I am impressed by the reviews and delighted about the more reasonable price.

PS! Leadie, just love your new Avatar:0:

[Mockenrue]

Yep, the saloon starts at £34,990 - £2,440 less than the B7. Faster, less expensive and more economical.

[Rosefors]

The only question is, whats it gonna cost you for it to become a "true" S4, by adding the stuff you really want, drive select, DSG and sportdiff.

?

[Leadfoot]

The only question is, whats it gonna cost you for it to become a "true" S4, by adding the stuff you really want, drive select, DSG and sportdiff.

?

The Dynamic package complete costs £1790 and the S/Tronic is another £1450. This might sound alot but not when you consider that BMW are charging £2560 for the gearbox on it's own and the similar suspension setup costs £1300 without the steering system.

[Marv]

:wo:gets even cheaper next week when the UK VAT rate comes down 2.5%

[JavierNuvolari]

:wo:gets even cheaper next week when the UK VAT rate comes down 2.5%

WHOA!!! you have a 2.5% VAT in the UK ?? damn....over here we have a...make sure you're on your seat....19%.

[Mockenrue]

No, we have 17.5%. Our 'government' are going to drop it by 2.5% to 15%.

[The RS6]

WHOA!!! you have a 2.5% VAT in the UK ?? damn....over here we have a...make sure you're on your seat....19%.

I think he meant the VAT will be lowered by 2.5% -> for example from 15 to 12.5 ;)

BTW, VAT in Croatia is 22%

[Rosefors]

VAT in sweden is 25%
Still, cars in Denmark and Norway are twice as expensive.

[Benman]

VAT in sweden is 25%
Still, cars in Denmark and Norway are twice as expensive. Oh goodness!!! Combine that with income tax and you guys get bent over quite good!!! Wow, so much for "free" health care... :big eyes:

Ben:addict:

[Marv]

WHOA!!! you have a 2.5% VAT in the UK ?? damn....over here we have a...make sure you're on your seat....19%.


2.5% VAT, I wish!

Sorry that post was a bit misleading. Yes, it's reduced by 2.5% to 15% not reduced to 2.5%. I think 15% is the lowest we are allowed under EU treaty.

Marv

[PetrolDave]

I think 15% is the lowest we are allowed under EU treaty.
How come the only EU member state to take ANY notice of EU treaties is the UK?

We should tell the EU to "get stuffed" and set whatever fiscal etc policies we think are right for OUR country.

A 2.5% VAT cut will not make any difference at all how much people spend - especially since it's been matched by an increase in petrol duty, alcohol duty and tobacco duty. And you still can't get a bank to lend you money at a rate anything close to the Bank of England base rate.