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Gabriel343
July 24th, 2003, 19:37
"Auto Bild test&tuning"
Track time at Oschersleben

http://www.leo.nutz.de/bmw/leo/forums/CSL_GT3_Oschersleben.jpg

Benman
July 25th, 2003, 03:41
Gabriel343,

nice post on the CLS. if what i'm seeing is correct than the CLS will be one track car to be reckoned with. it appears that at point 4 it has a higher speed of almost 14kph!!! that is amazing!!! i am a little curious why all the other check points have such similar times and just #4 is such a big difference.

all the same the performance is outstanding but not enough to make me want to trade in my RS 6:cheers:

Ben:addict:

Andreas.ka
July 25th, 2003, 17:33
good track-time, now im waiting for the tracktime on Nurnburing.
Next number of SportAuto is testing the car
Please let me know when u boys have read it

krabu
July 25th, 2003, 19:13
Well, I would'nt compare the M3 CSL against the 996 GT3 since the CSL is a tuned M3 with lighter weight and so on. The GT3 is a standard Porsche product.
Rather I would like to see them compare the M3 CSL against the upcoming Porsche 996 GT3 RS. :D :hihi:

acey
July 25th, 2003, 20:30
Well according to Sport Auto the CSL is 4 seconds faster than the
GT3 around Nurburgring (7:50). Amazing! :0: :cheers:

Andreas.ka
July 25th, 2003, 21:44
Originally posted by acey
Well according to Sport Auto the CSL is 4 seconds faster than the
GT3 around Nurburgring (7:50). Amazing! :0: :cheers:

do you have the time on Hockenheim too?

johann
July 25th, 2003, 22:32
Originally posted by krabu
Well, I would'nt compare the M3 CSL against the 996 GT3 since the CSL is a tuned M3 with lighter weight and so on. The GT3 is a standard Porsche product.

What exactly do you mean by that? :confused:

The M3 CSL is a standard BMW product, that is built from scratch much and differs from the standard M3 much in the same way as a GT3 differs from a standard 996 C2.

Andreas.ka
July 25th, 2003, 22:59
Originally posted by johann
What exactly do you mean by that? :confused:

The M3 CSL is a standard BMW product, that is built from scratch much and differs from the standard M3 much in the same way as a GT3 differs from a standard 996 C2.

Johann, Whats the laptime for the CSL on Hockenheim? quicker than the GT3?

johann
July 25th, 2003, 23:09
Originally posted by Andreas.ka
Johann, Whats the laptime for the CSL on Hockenheim? quicker than the GT3?

Don't know yet.

johann
July 25th, 2003, 23:19
Hockenheim:

M3CSL 1:13,5
GT3 1:13,2

Gabriel343
July 26th, 2003, 12:33
Originally posted by johann
Hockenheim:

M3CSL 1:13,5
GT3 1:13,2
Where do you take this times?

Andreas.ka
July 26th, 2003, 12:50
Originally posted by Gabriel343
Where do you take this times?

Answer: SportAuto, germancarmagazine

Can be found here too:
http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp

Snow
July 26th, 2003, 14:35
I say 3 tenths of a second can be driver related, so I don't care so much about that. More amazing is the times overall. The CSL is MIGHTY fast! :bigeyes:

And of course so is the Porsche too, no surprises there... :p

steve
July 26th, 2003, 15:05
Is the CSL really SO MUCH faster than a normal M3??

Andreas.ka
July 26th, 2003, 15:17
Originally posted by steve
Is the CSL really SO MUCH faster than a normal M3??

Yes it is, its not just a modified M3, It got 360hk och 110kg less weight and built in carbon and much more...

Captain Bady
July 26th, 2003, 20:44
tyres tyres tyres

the CSL are almost SLICKS
the GT3 are normal tyres! ;)

Gabriel343
July 27th, 2003, 12:54
http://www.leo.nutz.de/bmw/leo/forums/SA_CSL_Supertest/SA_CSL_4.jpg

http://www.leo.nutz.de/bmw/leo/forums/SA_CSL_Supertest/SA_CSL_7.jpg

http://www.leo.nutz.de/bmw/leo/forums/SA_CSL_Supertest/SA_CSL_8.jpg

http://www.leo.nutz.de/bmw/leo/forums/SA_CSL_Supertest/CSLsupertest.htm

Klint
July 27th, 2003, 15:26
Interesting Comparison going on here. :)

But, The GT3 get's my thumbs up. Why? Well...Porsche vehicles have been known consecutively for a long...long time, to be able to take on the track with amazing times and be drove home later that day without bits falling off.

With the M3 you had the problem of engines blowing up between 2000-2001 (or 2002) and there's been one or two 2003 models that've goen the same route...so what does BMW M do?...squeeze more power out of an engine that is showing 'obvious difficulties' with the power it has already. That's good for selling the car, but is it actually feasible? I don't think it is...While the Porsche has a good enough displacement to handle a power increase over the previous GT3, meaning the chances of things to go wrong drop considerably...I can only see the CSL being towed behind a Cayenne, smoking, crackling and with whistling noises coming out from the radiator at the end of IT's track day, while the Porsche is still making record lap times around the Nurburgring.

:cheers:

krabu
July 27th, 2003, 16:03
Originally posted by johann
What exactly do you mean by that? :confused:

The M3 CSL is a standard BMW product, that is built from scratch much and differs from the standard M3 much in the same way as a GT3 differs from a standard 996 C2.

What i mean is that the line of products look like this:
BMW 330 Coupé - BMW M3 - BMW M3 CSL
Porsche 996 C2 - Porsche 996 GT3 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS

Since the CSL is the last part of the evolution I don't see it fair to compaire it against the part 2 in the Porsche family.

Andreas.ka
July 27th, 2003, 17:46
Originally posted by krabu
What i mean is that the line of products look like this:
BMW 330 Coupé - BMW M3 - BMW M3 CSL
Porsche 996 C2 - Porsche 996 GT3 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS

Since the CSL is the last part of the evolution I don't see it fair to compaire it against the part 2 in the Porsche family.


dont forget the M3 GTR its faster than the CSL

BMW M3 - BMW CSL - BMW M3 GTR
Porsche 996 C2 - Porsche 996 GT3 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS

johann
July 27th, 2003, 17:46
Originally posted by krabu
What i mean is that the line of products look like this:
BMW 330 Coupé - BMW M3 - BMW M3 CSL
Porsche 996 C2 - Porsche 996 GT3 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS

Since the CSL is the last part of the evolution I don't see it fair to compaire it against the part 2 in the Porsche family.

Dont be that silly!

Also you are wrong.
The 3 series Coupé evolution goes like this:
318Ci - 320Ci - 328Ci - 330Ci - M3 - M3 GTR gen 1 - M3 GTR gen 2 - 330 Cd M3 CSL.

You also missed out several versions of the GT3 ranging from GT3 Cup to the real GT3-RS.

Andreas.ka
July 27th, 2003, 17:49
What´s the price on GT3 RS?

Differences between GT3 and GT3 RS?
Besides where is Audi with their GT3 killer?

Klint
July 27th, 2003, 18:10
Originally posted by johann
Dont be that silly!

Also you are wrong.
The 3 series Coupé evolution goes like this:
318Ci - 320Ci - 328Ci - 330Ci - M3 - M3 GTR gen 1 - M3 GTR gen 2 - 330 Cd M3 CSL.

You also missed out several versions of the GT3 ranging from GT3 Cup to the real GT3-RS.

hehe...You Missed out the 325Ci...hehe

But a question...does anything below the M3 compete with a Porsche 996? Not really...a 318Ci vs 996 Carrera 2...Don't think so. And that's what Krabu was on about...where does BMW with their 3-series, compete with Porsche? The M3 and above.

Here is what I think the direct competitors are, regarding the BMW 3 vs Porsche 996.

M3 - M3 CSL - M3 GTR
996 C2 - 996 GT3 - 996 GT2

:cheers:

Erik
July 27th, 2003, 18:46
Originally posted by Andreas.ka
Besides where is Audi with their GT3 killer?

I guess the next RS4 will have faster acceleration but slower on track vs. M3 CSL.

So the reply would be the future Audi RSR.

I think the M3 CSL will become a legend.