Well its decision time - RS6 vs. RS4 (a little long, but worth the read :-)

[jbtexas]

This board has been extremely helpful as I researched the RS6. I have finally found what I think is probably the right deal for me, if I choose to buy. I drove it today -- the car is in good condition and has 20k miles, is in the color combo that I wanted, 100% original, etc. Seller is asking $48k, and I am hoping to buy it for $45k...I think it is a reasonable offer and that he would accept it.

Driving impressions -- ride was rougher than I expected, but cornered flatter than expected also, the torque/hp was much more linear than expected... coming from Porsche twin turbos, I was expecting the typical milliseconds of delay, but there really wasnt any...very smooth power, it was great. Not the bite in brakes that I expected, they felt a little soft to me, but admittedly I wasnt really getting on the car hard in either accelerating or stopping.

Cosmetics - This particular car, despite the low mileage, did have some little warts here and there. Some road rash on the front because no clear bra, same on the mirrors. Driver side door handle inside the plastic had peeled off a little, passenger side didnt show any wear at all. The carbon fiber trim had a few spots on it that were "lighter"...best way I know to describe it. Perhaps it is "lifting" a little in places? Or the sun has faded it a bit? Anyone else have this on their car? One wheel has a little curb rash, but it is minor.

Overall, for a 5-yr car, I suppose that with the low mileage and pricing, these minor cosmetic imperfections shouldnt bother me...but they do a bit. And it got me thinking about how nice a new Audi would smell!

So here is kind of where I am at --

2003 RS6 for $45K + price of buying extended warranty and inevitable repair and maintenance costs? Call it $55k 'ish over the next few years...

OR

2008 RS4 for $63k... which is the price I have been quoted for a brand new one (about $7k below invoice). Brand new, warranty, delivery miles only, etc.

I know that these are very different cars. The rarity, power and back seat size of the RS6 appeals to me with little ones, although I dont think that it has the greatest safety crash ratings for rear side impact. The RS4 is a great car too though, just a bit smaller, and have to shift a lot in traffic, but newest technology, engineering, asymetrical quattro, etc.

Sorry for rambling... would be very interested in any opinions/thoughts

[DuckWingDuck]

Remember back to why you're transitioning out of your 996TT. As I recall, you are looking for something to tote the family around. The RS4 is not the car for that, it is much too small. Yes, it's zippy as hell and can probably take the RS4 because of the weight difference but the 4 body is simply too small if you're hauling things around. A decent sized sedan that still can take almost any car on the road was the reason why I bought an RS6.

For me, there was never any doubts about getting the RS6 v the RS4. Does the RS6 come with some compromises? Sure, but what car doesn't?

[Bigglezworth]

Two comments on towards your decision.

1. From your recent posts and this one specifically, you sound very much like a lot of buyers I have had come and look at my 2006 Volvo S60R currently for sale. "Oh it's not perfect" (has door ding from shopping mall, some curb rash on rim, and a few rock chips in front clip), and "oh it has WAY too much mileage on it (30K for 2.5 years...)". I proceed to confirm the vehicle isn't new and it is being sold at blackbook price which is almost 50% what it cost new to purchase. The reason I say the above is that you have communicated your expectations for condition of a vehicle and this will most certainly leave you with no option but to purchase new.

2. The above aside, I can only hesitate to guess you were looking at the RS6 for the same exact reasons I was for mine. You already have a sports car or a mid engine exotic that well fulfills your midlife crisis. You wanted a car that could carry 2-3 of your buddies along with their golf clubs to the private club in the mountains - AND - you wanted to get them there in record time while still feeling like you were the king of the road with your other ride(s). Seriously you likely wanted to keep from your 5-6 year old pushing their feet into the back of your seat and complaining as they hobbled around in the back trying to get past the child seats on their way out....

Anyway, problem with #1 is that this type of a person is entirely impossible to please. I don't know you and this in no way suggests you fall into the same category as the people I've met in person and had discussion with on the phone - BUT - if you are expecting your next purchase to feel/look like a new car - then you need to expect to pay the respective price that particular model of car costs to purchase new. A new RS6 is double the price of the new RS4. This is for a very good reason. The two aren't even close apples to oranges other than they both have 4 doors. Item #2 will likely be the clincher over and above #1 and see your standards lower slightly in order to appease. I believe the RS4 has the same sort of cabin volume as my S60R. The S60R had more volume than the previous model S4 when I purchased it. I find it difficult space wise for kids much less adults in the rear seats even though it has 4 doors. S4 was worse.

Anyway I can fully appreciate the pain you are going through trying to make your final decision. Both are great cars and although they are built by the same company, they are substantially different in many aspects. I'm not entirely clear of $$ is a factor for your, but it doesn't sound like it. I'd wager to guess you'll end up with the used RS6 in the end based upon item #2 and lower your standards somewhat to obtain a well maintained one (not to be confused with a pristine one). I just see it being more important to you based upon your commentary in various posts. Regardless I do know you will end up in a very nice ride either way.

Best of success with whatever you chose.
Tim

[jbtexas]

Tim, thanks for your thoughtful post, very insightful. I can assure you that I am not that "guy" you describe. I have dealt with the same type as I have bought/sold cars. Its not a new car, and I expect it to show wear after 5 yrs. However, I do like to try to find my used purchases in pristine condition, and I am willing to pay for it. I would have been willing to pay more for this particular car if it didnt have some of the blemishes it does. They wont keep me from buying it necessarily, but they did get me thinking about the attraction of a new RS4, that's all. You are very right about the room in the back issue...much better on the RS6.

[ZCD2.7T]

Big vs. small.
Auto vs. manual.
Turbos vs. NA.
Old(er) vs. new.

Pretty clear choices, to me.

I'm a turbo junkie, plus I drive in heavy rush-hour traffic alla time, so the RS 6 would be my choice for those reasons. The cost of maintenance is what has stopped me from buying one to replace my 2.7T.

The RS4 is likely the better drive, but requires too many compromises to make sense in my life. What characteristics are more important in yours?

[BLITZEN]

Choose the RS6 for all the reasons above. Plus, you'll be driving a $100,000 car for $45k which is better than a $63,000 car for $63k.

I bought my RS6 without ever seeing it in person. The dealer told me about every imperfection, but they still missed a couple little things, like curb rash. But little did I know that light curb rash is something that can be fixed! The dealer had it for one day, called in a specialist who filled sanded and painted, and now you can't see that there was ever any damage! (The dealer I purchased from took care of the bill.)

Also, there was a door ding in the fender. I called a paintless dent repair specialist and for $40 he massaged it out. You seriously cannot tell there was ever any damage there either, not even a blemish in the reflection of the paint! (Just make sure your repairman has lots of experience.)

Finally, my car had 29k miles without any front protection, so it had a fair amount of chips. I had them touched up by the top body shop in town and then had the entire nose of the car covered (yes you can cover the entire hood instead of having a line a couple feet up). The result isn't perfect, but it's much better. And, since this car is a daily driver and not a garage queen, perfection isn't what I was looking for.

In the end, my car isn't perfect. But, no one notices the minute things that my compulsive eyes see. I have never had anyone ever point out any blemishes on my car - and that's good enough.

Enjoy!

[Tony Lam]

both are the great cars:addict: :rs4addict but if i were u i will take the RS4 cause it looks fresh & modern unless u really concern about the back seat otherwise.....RS4!!
btw..the one u may going to buy is about 5 years old already and 45k is not cheap for 5 years old car anyway.....question, is there any used RS4 for sale in your area? if so, u may also think about that too!!

[jbtexas]

Choose the RS6 for all the reasons above. Plus, you'll be driving a $100,000 car for $45k which is better than a $63,000 car for $63k.

I bought my RS6 without ever seeing it in person. The dealer told me about every imperfection, but they still missed a couple little things, like curb rash. But little did I know that light curb rash is something that can be fixed! The dealer had it for one day, called in a specialist who filled sanded and painted, and now you can't see that there was ever any damage! (The dealer I purchased from took care of the bill.)

Also, there was a door ding in the fender. I called a paintless dent repair specialist and for $40 he massaged it out. You seriously cannot tell there was ever any damage there either, not even a blemish in the reflection of the paint! (Just make sure your repairman has lots of experience.)

Finally, my car had 29k miles without any front protection, so it had a fair amount of chips. I had them touched up by the top body shop in town and then had the entire nose of the car covered (yes you can cover the entire hood instead of having a line a couple feet up). The result isn't perfect, but it's much better. And, since this car is a daily driver and not a garage queen, perfection isn't what I was looking for.

In the end, my car isn't perfect. But, no one notices the minute things that my compulsive eyes see. I have never had anyone ever point out any blemishes on my car - and that's good enough.

Enjoy!

Not if I have $10k+ in bills over the next 6 months... DRC, transmission, etc. This is probably what is causing me the most pause. I expect to have to spend some money, dont get me wrong....but the stories on the boards are scaring the bejeezus out of me re:reliability.

[Bigglezworth]

...the one u may going to buy is about 5 years old already and 45k is not cheap for 5 years old car anyway...This is the exact attitude that ruins the used car market and is increasingly making it difficult to sell a well kept, well built car.:w: This vehicle was $85-100 5 years ago and you consider 50% of that price too much to pay after 5 years?? :doh:

[Tony Lam]

for example, the brand new rs6 avant was selling about HKD1.42m in 2004 and today's second hand market price is about HKD500k only...it's about 65% off for 4 years old car......may be this is happen in HK only not to other countries!!:rolleyes:

[KfabR8]

I'll toss in a couple thoughts too:

The RS6 is the perfect Family Truckster. It's extremely comfortable, it offers the Audi luxury that is second to none, it's great on long trips.

It's also fun to eat Rice Burners with. Poor kids have no idea what just went blitzing past them - "Some old dude in a four door car just smoked my ass??" :vhmmm:

Even with the stiffer/harsher ride over something like a regular A6 or 8, the suspension's not something that tends to beat you down after a long drive.

I can't comment on the new RS4's ride, as I've not been in one, so I can't make any sort of comparison for you there....

The size of the car's just about right if you do plan on using it as any sort of family ride or taking your buddys to this thing mentioned called a Golf Course (what the hell are those?:doh: - Golf requires two things, and ONLY two things: A cart and LOTS of beer. Perfect waste of land that could be used for some of the finest motocross tracks in the country.:dig: Oh well...)

The 6 holds it's value fairly well. Take it now, drive it for a year and see how you feel about it after that. If it's something that's not what you wanted, then turn around and downsize to the RS4. I'm sure that in a year, you'll be able to pick up a 4 for a very reasonable price and probably get most of what you put into the 6 back. :bye:

[mmaturo]

I'll toss in a couple thoughts too:

The RS6 is the perfect Family Truckster. It's extremely comfortable, it offers the Audi luxury that is second to none, it's great on long trips.

It's also fun to eat Rice Burners with. Poor kids have no idea what just went blitzing past them - "Some old dude in a four door car just smoked my ass??" :vhmmm:

Even with the stiffer/harsher ride over something like a regular A6 or 8, the suspension's not something that tends to beat you down after a long drive.

I can't comment on the new RS4's ride, as I've not been in one, so I can't make any sort of comparison for you there....

The size of the car's just about right if you do plan on using it as any sort of family ride or taking your buddys to this thing mentioned called a Golf Course (what the hell are those?:doh: - Golf requires two things, and ONLY two things: A cart and LOTS of beer. Perfect waste of land that could be used for some of the finest motocross tracks in the country.:dig: Oh well...)

The 6 holds it's value fairly well. Take it now, drive it for a year and see how you feel about it after that. If it's something that's not what you wanted, then turn around and downsize to the RS4. I'm sure that in a year, you'll be able to pick up a 4 for a very reasonable price and probably get most of what you put into the 6 back. :bye:

buy the RS6...better daily driver hauler and if you are over 6' then certainly proper scale of a car over the 4. My only reason posting with the quote above is that i'm seeing way worse depreciation so I would not count on the RS6 ever holding value. Car is a blast and you are saving 20K to use on keeping the RS6 in shape. I've replied a bunch of times to your posts on Audiworld (MarknmTT) and as long as you get an extended warranty in place don't worry about the maintenance as much. Not cheap but that's the price of exclusivity. I think you should offer lower than $45 though. Even with 20K on it they bought it at auction for WAY less if its a dealer. You are making a private sellers day at 45 as they would have been offered 30 to 35 in trade.

[jbtexas]

buy the RS6...better daily driver hauler and if you are over 6' then certainly proper scale of a car over the 4. My only reason posting with the quote above is that i'm seeing way worse depreciation so I would not count on the RS6 ever holding value. Car is a blast and you are saving 20K to use on keeping the RS6 in shape. I've replied a bunch of times to your posts on Audiworld (MarknmTT) and as long as you get an extended warranty in place don't worry about the maintenance as much. Not cheap but that's the price of exclusivity. I think you should offer lower than $45 though. Even with 20K on it they bought it at auction for WAY less if its a dealer. You are making a private sellers day at 45 as they would have been offered 30 to 35 in trade.

I am leaning toward the RS6, thanks a lot for your posts here and elsewhere. The buyer originally had this 19k car listed at $55k. I think that he got pretty much no interest. He just dropped the asking price to $48k. I think that he will take $45k. Right or wrong, I am not sure that he will take much less than that. I would feel like I got an incredible deal/car at $40k, so maybe I will start there and see where things go. thanks again

[BLITZEN]

JB- I encourage you to forget about the horror stories. Otherwise, forget about both cars. Practical folks concerned about milage, repairs and depreciation should buy Hondas. Audi RS's are luxuries for the extremely fortunate. Whether or not a trans or DRC goes bad, it's easy to put $10k in repair on one of these cars and you have to be ready and expecting it. Just look at the price of a full set of brake rotors and pads! Years ago when I bought a full-size SUV I realized, if you can't afford the gas, you can't afford the vehicle.

Also, keep in mind a couple other things. First, just b/c you haven't heard about major prob's with the RS4, doesn't mean they aren't lurking and won't appear once the cars start getting into higher milage. Second, the image of a used RS4 is that someone bought it to drive fast and hard. Especially considering the fact that the 4 is brand new, you will probably lose more in depreciation on the 4 than the 6.

[DuckWingDuck]

maintenance has always been the key indicator to the affordability of anything we buy. While I might have the dough to buy a 100ft yacht, I certainly don't have the money to maintain that thing for more than a year! Same basic story here, as BLITZEN mentioned. Ultimately, what you spend for the car will pale in comparison to what you spend upkeeping it.

[jbtexas]

All due respect guys, different strokes for different folks. I have owned lots of "fun" cars...mainly Porsches. I dont like to buy money pits. I don't agree with those that say "gee if you cant afford to pay, you cant play...these cars are expensive toys, not Toyotas, etc.". We do quite well, but until I am Bill Gates rich, I will always try to make smart purchases... whatever it is -- real estate, cars, whatever. Plus, 90% of the RS6 cars I see for sale are selling in the $30s...which is about the same as a new Honda...so, sort of disagree with your comment about the RS6 being for the "fortunate" only...perhaps when new, but not so much now.

I realize that this is an understandably biased crowd, so I hope that this doesnt come across the wrong way. As a daily driver for me, and not my only car, the RS6 is a cool proposition... IF... I can keep the total cost of ownership in a certain range. If not, new RS4, S6, maybe eve (gasp) an AMG or M5 start coming into focus. The strong attraction of the RS6 to someone like me is a great, unique, enthusiasts car at 50% of the original price, with low mileage, certified or warrantied...

(side note - the 08 models are selling below invoice right now... the RS4 $63k price tag is about $7k below invoice)

If I am annoying anyone with my deliberations, please feel free to just ignore this thread :D

I really do appreciate all the advice. thanks

[jbtexas]

maintenance has always been the key indicator to the affordability of anything we buy. While I might have the dough to buy a 100ft yacht, I certainly don't have the money to maintain that thing for more than a year! Same basic story here, as BLITZEN mentioned. Ultimately, what you spend for the car will pale in comparison to what you spend upkeeping it.

Well if this is true, I have no interest in the RS6. A Porsche 356/911 or old muscle car I expect to spend more than purchase price restoring or upkeeping it as a weekend toy...but not my daily driver. I had worked out the economics to be $45k for the car plus $5k for Audi platinum warranty, which seems to be pretty comprehensive. I have a good relationship with the local dealer re: warranty. That would put me in the car for $50k with some ongoing maintenance costs, but nothing double digit. If this is not accurate, than I probably walk away...

[DuckWingDuck]

Um, the RS4 is going to be having comparable maintenance costs to the RS6... And as you said, you've had other cars like Porsches and I am sure from those cars you are used to having to pay more than the $29.95 for an oil change that you could get away with on a Toyota.

I think the point is getting a bit lost here... no matter which car you choose, a slightly newer RS4 or the RS6, you're going to run up again a relatively high maintenance bill. If you spend the extra money on the warranty, when your turbo blows on your RS6 or when the transmission dies on you, the warranty will cover it. Just as your warranty would cover your RS4 should you choose to go that route with a warranty.

[jbtexas]

Thanks DuckWingDuck... I think you are right, we are beating a dead horse a bit. Since there are so few of these RS6s, I was trying to get the perspectives from some owners... but I think that everything is relative and perhaps the original intent of my post was lost. My Porsches going to the dealer for servicing are about a $1k event per every 3-4 months. Assuming this will be less than that (with the warranty in place), I am happy. I was sufficiently scared early on in searching this board, reading about torque converters/overall transmission, DRC, brakes, turbos, on and on and on... but I guess the owners with no problems dont post...

thanks again

[DuckWingDuck]

it is a finicky car and so you definitely should go in with eyes wide open. There are plenty of owners who are happy with their cars and don't generally have problems but as you said, there is no need to post to say, "hey, my car is working." And it isn't that they don't post, it's just that as I mentioned above, there is no point to come in and say that they are having no problems.

Does this car have problems? Sure, what car doesn't? As long as you're fully informed, you'll make the right decision for yourself.

[Fart]

Old vs new.....2003 vs 2008. Perhaps The RS4 for you and some other car for the Family. Good luck!

[DHall1]

JB,

What happened to the car in Portland? Last I remember you were heading up there to inspect the car. Can you give some feedback on the condition?

That same owner has two 07 RS4s for good prices. Both in Avus

I dont think you have to defend your position on buying the right used RS6. I am in the same boat. Very picky and the right one at the right price will come along.

As for known problems....I dont think the trans is that big an issue. The DRC can always be fixed with coil over shocks for 2-3k if it ever comes up. Brakes....so what if you have to change rotors.

I will daily drive mine without a worry.

Please reply to the Portland car and any info....

Thanks,



This board has been extremely helpful as I researched the RS6. I have finally found what I think is probably the right deal for me, if I choose to buy. I drove it today -- the car is in good condition and has 20k miles, is in the color combo that I wanted, 100% original, etc. Seller is asking $48k, and I am hoping to buy it for $45k...I think it is a reasonable offer and that he would accept it.

Driving impressions -- ride was rougher than I expected, but cornered flatter than expected also, the torque/hp was much more linear than expected... coming from Porsche twin turbos, I was expecting the typical milliseconds of delay, but there really wasnt any...very smooth power, it was great. Not the bite in brakes that I expected, they felt a little soft to me, but admittedly I wasnt really getting on the car hard in either accelerating or stopping.

Cosmetics - This particular car, despite the low mileage, did have some little warts here and there. Some road rash on the front because no clear bra, same on the mirrors. Driver side door handle inside the plastic had peeled off a little, passenger side didnt show any wear at all. The carbon fiber trim had a few spots on it that were "lighter"...best way I know to describe it. Perhaps it is "lifting" a little in places? Or the sun has faded it a bit? Anyone else have this on their car? One wheel has a little curb rash, but it is minor.

Overall, for a 5-yr car, I suppose that with the low mileage and pricing, these minor cosmetic imperfections shouldnt bother me...but they do a bit. And it got me thinking about how nice a new Audi would smell!

So here is kind of where I am at --

2003 RS6 for $45K + price of buying extended warranty and inevitable repair and maintenance costs? Call it $55k 'ish over the next few years...

OR

2008 RS4 for $63k... which is the price I have been quoted for a brand new one (about $7k below invoice). Brand new, warranty, delivery miles only, etc.

I know that these are very different cars. The rarity, power and back seat size of the RS6 appeals to me with little ones, although I dont think that it has the greatest safety crash ratings for rear side impact. The RS4 is a great car too though, just a bit smaller, and have to shift a lot in traffic, but newest technology, engineering, asymetrical quattro, etc.

Sorry for rambling... would be very interested in any opinions/thoughts

[mmaturo]

got to disagree on the transmission...plenty of us are on number two. But still worth it. Mine has been ok for 35K hard miles since replacement.

But find one so you can start enjoying it.

[jbtexas]

DHall1,

I offered $55k on the portland car with 85 miles... I would have even gone a little higher, but the seller said he wouldnt take a penny under $65k. I walked. Still looking...and also getting more tempted to just grab an RS4 or S6 every day, as pricing on those 08 models is crazy reasonable right now.

As for the tranny, I have to disagree also. All of my research says that the torque converters/tranny is a major concern and at least 50% chance of failure. Agree that the DRC is an easy fix.