Possible new owner, advise, UK

[gareth60]

Hi all,
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
I currently drive a 2006 Subaru Impreza STI and i've been thinking of changing. I have always liked German cars since I had my Golf GTI as a teenager many years ago. Also, i'm on my third Impreza and want a change.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p
I had originally thought about a new S3 or 170bhp 2.0 tdi A3, new, but then I saw a RS4 on my way home from hols last week and wondered if I could afford one.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p</O:p
I cannot afford a RS4, but the RS6 in the UK in a 4 year old, are being advertised for just under £30k.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
My Scooby is fairly expensive to run, road tax £400, fuel (20 mpg) and tyres so I dont think i'll be in for a major shock. I have read things about the suspension and gearbox, but is there anything I need to look for.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
One of the real pains with the Scooby is that you have to use 97 octane fuel, which is more expensive and can be harder to get. Does the RS6 "have" to run on 97 or will it run fine of 95. The Scooby runs horribly on 95.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
I don't do many miles, 7k a year as we have two cars and I use my motorbike for work in the summer.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
Not sure whether to go for a Avant or Saloon, I can see how the Avant will be helpfull as I have a family, but I dont think i'll be able to convince the wife that its a family car. We use her Diesel for longer journeys as she doesn’t like the cost of fuel in the Scooby and it's harsh ride (I have Prodrive suspension).<O:p</O:p
<O:p
I may be biting off more that I can chew and should go for a new A3/S3, but I need to research it first as I have always wanted a RS4/6.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
Thanks all<O:p</O:p
Gareth.<O:p</O:p

[DuckWingDuck]

The search function is a great aid in helping you to suss out whether the RS6 is the vehicle for you. I would say that being a finicky car, it isn't cheap to maintain and certainly running roughly 7k mi/yr reduces the wear and tear but...

[gareth60]

Thanks,

I have read quite a few posts, my main question was about the fuel. I was also just trying to see if there were any personal experiences particually from say ex Impreza owners.

Kind regards
Gareth

[cornishmoocher]

Hi Gareth,

firstly, the RS6 in standard form is MUCH more of a car than the scooby, it is not even in the same county let alone the ball park!

Fuel wise, you will be lucky to return 20mpg. Average is 14- 18 mpg around town and posibly 20 on run dependant on your boot.
It will run on 95 fine, but as a MINIMUM 97 is recomended. I run tesco 99 at about 117p P/L. hellish difference!

Its an awsome car in every way, but beware, they can be costly, make sure you get a good warranty for the DRc issues etc. My gear box is in the process of being changed unde warranty and today I saw the cost of parts from Audi £4K. 25hours labour minimum @ £110..............

good luck, you wont regret it tho.....

[gareth60]

Hi cornishmoocher,<O:p</O:p
<O:p
Yes, I know it's in a totally different league, hence why I want one :). Hot hatches seem to be getting faster and faster and I don’t think the Impreza has really moved with it. My first one almost 10 years ago (a 1999 turbo) had 218bhp which you can get in a Corsa VXR now, ouch. I have considered the new sti with either 330 bhp or 380, but I want something that built a bit better.
<O:p
I'm also in Kent (and was in Cornwall on hols last week funnily enough, where I saw the RS4 in the service station). Where about are you? and what dealer do you use. I'm due a test drive in an S3 at the Tonbridge Audi close to where I work.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
From what I believe you might have said in another post, try and get an Audi warranty if buying from a franchised dealer. I've also been looking on http://www.fontain.co.uk (http://www.fontain.co.uk/), not sure what they are like.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
I'm also curious what the ride is like as the Impreza, partially mine with Prodrive suspension, is very harsh on the motorway. (Sticks like glue on the roundabout, but i'm getting a bit old for all than now). I want something that has pace, but is not a little go-cart that gives you a headache after 30 miles. Something you can drive slow and calm, but step on it, and it will go. I'm also getting tired on the "race me" image of the Impreza, I want something a little more stealth. I would probably remove the RS badges.


I would probably not tune the RS if I got one and leave it standard, but, hey, who knows ;)
<O:p</O:p

Regards<O:p</O:p
Gareth.

PS. I've had your signature (live life....) going arround and arround in my head for days ever since I first read it, how very true...<O:p</O:p

[DuckWingDuck]

my father is not a big fan of the rs6 as he feels that it's a bit stiff, but he is almost 60 :D I think the ride on he stock DRC is going to be comparable to the Impreza, maybe a bit softer. I've only experience the STI but Impreza is a contemporary of it so I assume that they're fairly similar.

The stealth factor is something that probably 90% of the owner of the car says though there are times driving around LA that I do wish for a slight bit more visibility.

[ben916]

...good luck, you wont regret it tho.....

Schmoocher, you could suggest a less spirited passenger seat demo of your beast since BOTH of your signatures indicate KENT, UK?!?!?!??!

No, I am not close to Boosted Bora or Fonzie so a demo ride is out of the question.

Don't be afraid of the Jello...

[tombs]

Hi Gareth, compared to what you have cost wise there is nothing in it if your planning to run an RS6. You also dont need to spend 30k on one either. There are a few on Auottrader right now at around the 22K mark from Audi dealers, and these will come with a years warranty as standard so things like DRC and gearbox are covered. But if 30k is what you want to spend get and RS6 for 20k and spend the rest on "7" type kit car for fun!

[r1nga]

Gareth,

As en ex Scoob owner (Prodrive 97 4-door and personally imported STiV Type-R in 98 - before the image of the classic model went off a cliff ;-).....

The RS6 is far more grown up, both in terms of performance and of course image. On boost the STi was much the same performance (Link ECU, zorst, equal length headers etc, about 340bhp/320ftlbs), but it had nothing like the torque and 'thump' spread of the Audi. Sure the smaller car will handle the twisties and tracks better, but then they are different and aimed at completely opposite ends of the enthusiast market I think.

I got 24.7mpg over 1000 miles to/from Le Mans this year. Did a 4 day course at the Ring in the car last week and averaged 18mpg overall (dictated fundamentally by 30+ laps at 11mpg). Tyres and brakes are horrific and I suspect I will get only 10,000 out of the Goodyear F1 Assymetrics I've fitted. Good tyres though.

Brake respond well to upgrade and although the Ring Course was run in 31C heat for 3 solid days, the near 2-tonne RS stopped pretty good all the time, but I run without the front backplates for extra cooling, with Ferodo DS2500 pads (and Pagid RS-19 Yellows rear).

Ride quality not ultimately as good as the Scoob, perhaps as mine had a cage and LEDA suspension, so was very stiff and could be set compliant. I have Bilstein PSS9's on the RS and at their stiff setting were great at the Ring, and comfy(ish) on the road when backed off pretty much to half-way. But overall so much more comfortable than the Scoob over a long journey.

But at 7000 miles/year, you'll be OK I suspect. JFDI!

Phil G

[DuckWingDuck]

what the hell? 4 days of racing and you're still getting 18mpg??? I pray nightly for 18mpg!!

[cornishmoocher]

Hi Gareth,

Im in Paddock wood, well just outside!:)

Tonbridge is my dealer and the lads down there are great. I dealt with Gero and Ben, but the are all good. Ben is a fruit loop who is speed mad and rides an R1 within an inch of its life....
Andy Stevens and Helen Gregory are the service bods I deal with for the owie bits, but again they are brilliant, cant do enough for me, although they owe me big time at the moment, mines in for the gearbox, and i was supposed to get it back on Thursday (tomorrow) for my hols back to cornwall for 2 weeks, but it aint happening. least they had the balls to tell me the truth, they *ucked up, thought they could get it done but couldn't. It WILL cost them:hahahehe: .

Go down and say hi and that Alex sent you...... they will have you forcebly removed:lovl: . Nah they are cool, sold me my B6 A4 V62.4se and my RS6.

There is a meet tomorrow night at the Poacher at Tudeley. Will be a few of us there for a bite to eat and some general (civilised) chat. There should be a tuned RS6 there!

You can also check out this site too.
www.audisrs.com (http://www.audisrs.com) New site started by a breakaway group from www.rs246.com (http://www.rs246.com) Both sites are great for knowledge, although audisrs tends to be more fun! (I post on both and like both a lot)

CheeRS

Alex

You will be more than welcome to come for a blat when I get back.....:revs: :burnout: :MTM:

[r1nga]

what the hell? 4 days of racing and you're still getting 18mpg??? I pray nightly for 18mpg!!

In my defence - I guess it had been a good 2000 miles since I reset the MPG average, (lessening the effect of 30+ laps at 11mpg) and they're also Imperial Gallons, rather than the more svelt US version.

Either way, I can live with my gas mileage OK at present!

Phil G

[r1nga]

Alex,

Just out of interest, is your car having a new, exchange or repaired gearbox swap? Still think I have issues with mine and wondered how you were getting on.

Gareth - back on thread - there are gearbox issues with these cars, where as the Subaru was pretty strong in that regard. Worth bearing in mind in terms of warranty provision etc.

Phil G

[gareth60]

Thanks guys for your input.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
A bit of understanding to my thoughts;<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

For my performance kicks and little red devil moments, I use my bike, which I use daily in the summer when it is not raining. For those of you who know bikes, I have a Honda Blackbird, which may not be the latest metal, but is a very fast bike.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Logic says, I should get a A6 diesel for my winter travel, but in the words of my wife, "You won't be happy with that, would you?", hence why I have had three Impreza's. I could tune my 2 year old Impreza to 360bhp for just under £1, but I want a more grown up car and I’m getting tired of the go-cart ride and "boy racer" image. Driving around town with the window down and all teanagers look around and shout "nice scooby mate, go on, boot it!...." and all the old fellas looking at you shaking their head cos they think you must be speeding as it sounds throaty.

<O:p</O:p

This is where the RS6 comes in. I would like RS4 as I’m concerned about the RS6 fitting in my garage along with my bike and endless kids cars and bikes, but they are beyond what I want to pay. I might have to extend the garage.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

I have a few questions from what you guys have already said.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

The suspension, I’ve read it can be quite an issue. Is this all cars and can it be replaced by "standard" shocks or does it not work like that.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

I see that the A6 has gone through several revisions since say 2002 and the RS6 has only changed recently. Is this correct and if not, is there any particular year / variation i should be looking for.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Thanks again for your valued input, I like to hear real world opinions on things. I must admit, i'm getting quite excited and found myself driving (it raining today) to work this morning thinking about buying an RS6 <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shape id=Picture_x0020_2 style="VISIBILITY: visible; WIDTH: 33.75pt; HEIGHT: 15pt; mso-wrap-style: square" alt="0" type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1025"><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\gareth\LOCALS~1\Temp\1\msohtmlclip1\01 \clip_image002.gif" o:title="0"></v:imagedata></v:shape>.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Alex, thanks for you invite. We're off on the Eurostar early Saturday morning, so I need to get the wife and kids to bed early on Friday, so I don’t think I can get there. What time are you guys gathering? I'm in Gravesend BTW.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Phil, It's good to hear from an Ex Scooby owner and your honest opinion.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

thanks all<O:p</O:p
Gareth.<O:p</O:p

[r1nga]

Gareth,

..... and an ex-biker (badly smashed up in 2003, but fundamentally in one piece now!).

Suspension can indeed be replaced with good old fashioned kit (KW, Bilstein etc etc) and the results are very good. Adjustability (important if you want to do the odd track moment) and reliability. If you buy a car which still has the std DRC there's a good chance you'll have hassle in due course.

All RS6's were fundamentally 'loaded' in terms of kit (Satnav, TV, electric everythgin etc), but the last of the RS6's and all the RS6+ cars had the later DVD-based SatNav (refered to as RNS-E) as opposed to RNS-D which was the slower, CD-based unit. This is a worthwhile thing to get. The new shape A6 was just starting to be sold in cooking form whilst the last of the RS6+'s were being moved onto customers I believe.

Prices are dropping like stones at present for all the well spouted reasons, but I would recommend looking around the Audi dealerships as well as independents, as they are starting to really drop prices and you'll get a full Audi Approved warranty with a dealer car too, which is worth its weight in gold I think.

And in bike terms, the RS6 is a close beast in concept to the Blackbird. Big, heavy but monstrously fast in a stealthy kinda way, particularly in a dark colour....

I don't think you'll regret it.

Phil G

[tombs]

I agree with Phil on most of the above, but don’t get yourself in a pickle about the gear box etc...Yes it’s expensive to replace but if you shop around you could buy privately a cheapish RS6 saving on dealer prices put the difference aside in a saving account etc, and if nothing goes wrong then you’re quid’s in. I can’t remember the exact price but I know Grizz at Unit 20 can sort gearboxes out on the RS6 for quite reasonable money. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
It’s also worth bearing in mind there are quite a few RS6 specialist’s around now (Unit 20, MRC etc..) and these guys will save you a pretty penny on anything that needs doing and they know what they are doing to. If you’re really lucky you’ll be able to pick up a real gem with the drc sorted etc and doesn’t need anything doing to it for a great price.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
As for the shape and updates, incredibly the car’s chassis and engine are derived from the 4.2 A6 (introduced in 1998). Apart from the DNS-E and RS6+ model nothing has changed since its introduction in 2002 to the final model in 2004.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Although this comment is probably for another thread I think there is still more movement on these prices at the moment, the car industry is desperate and so are some sellers. A little more time (a month or so) and you’ll see even more RS6’s for sale and lower prices.<o:p></o:p>

[cornishmoocher]

Unfortunately I agree with Tom on the pricing front. I hope I am wrong for all of our sakes as I for one would rather let mine rot than sell it for 15k!!


Gear box is brand new, fitted (well it would be if Audi pulled their fingers out) under warranty.

As for RS6 specialists, the only one I am able to recomend id Unit20. Grizz has been absolutley top notch. Actually thats unfair, Grizz gets all the praise, but Pete who is grizz right hand man is a bloody wizzard too. And together they ake a team who I personally trust with my investment and ultimately my life when i am blatting round at 180+ !!
As for MRC QST and the others, I cannot comment as i have not used them, but have there is loads of stuff about them on all the post and forums. MRC I do know are the Nummero uno's in the B5 s4/RS4 world, they are wizzards when it come sto those beasties!

[BLITZEN]

Interesting to hear a European gallon is larger than an American one. By how much? I always wondered how Europeans could afford such high gas prices and also was perplexed about how you consistently get better mileage! I average only 12-13mpg.

Back on topic...
Gareth, if money and expense is not much of a concern for you, then go for it! The RS6 is one of the most enjoyable performance street machines you could ever drive, especially if you need 4 seats and 4 doors! You will love it.

On the other hand, if cost or financial burden is a storm cloud hovering around your house, then the RS6 is probably NOT the right car right now.

I'm not trying to sell you out of it with fear of financial ruin. But I do want to keep it real since no one else has mentioned anything about how expensive these cars really are. 97, 95 or 93 octane? Who cares? You will almost spend as much in maintenance (maintenance and wear items are not covered under CPO or extended warranties).

Truthfully, other than the wealthy guys on this board that can constantly upgrade their cars with no concern of money, the rest of us save a considerable sum so that we're not short when something goes. Personally, I sock away $350US/month just for RS6 expenses, not including gas, but I drive almost twice as much as you.

To start, have you read about timing belt changes? Every 35,000 miles, there goes about $3000US. Brake rotors and pads? At least $1000+ for a pair. Tires? $1250-$1600 per set, lasting 15k miles. CV joints, CV boots, shocks, etc. are wear items, none covered with CPO or extended warranties. Just adding up the timing belt, brake, and tire numbers alone, (much less suspension and other things) you're looking at $1000-$1500 annually while driving only 7000 miles. A more experienced estimator would say that you may end up around $2000US per year.

Simultaneously, you'll also lose equity value of an RS6 probably quicker than a less exclusive car. Depending on the deal you get to start, I roughly estimate that you could quite easily depreciate $5k US per year or more if you become desperate to sell.

In conclusion, if you have extra money or if it's important enough to you, then go ahead and enjoy! Save the money you know you'll need and then block your mind from thinking about costs. I'm no millionaire - but I've been able to make it work and love the car with cost concerns only in the back of my head. Or conversly, if you're nervous about expenses, then take some time and save some dollars. You'll be able to buy your RS6 down the road when it costs less and you have more to put down.
Good Luck!

P.S. Check out the thread "Maintenance Help". And either way, sell that look-at-me Impreza before putting one more penny into it!
:rs6kiss:

[The RS6]

1 US gallon = 3.785411784 L
1 Imperial (UK) gallon = 4.54609188 L

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallon
:)

[gareth60]

Hi guys,

I must admit, i'm pretty sold on getting an RS6. I'm in no huge rush, i'd like to wait till towards xmas to see how much cash I have to spend.

As for prices, all high co2 / fuel costing cars are hit. With £455 road tax and high fuel prises being the issue, even insurance has gone up. I have lost 10k on my Scooby in 2 years and it's only 2 years old and low mileage. It's heartbreaking, but it's all part of owning a performance car.

My hardest task now and some of you might laugh, is convincing my 5 yr old son. He loves the Impreza and has all the models, t-shirts, bags, etc. I guess its a boys dream. I also need to convince the wife as she loves the Impreza also. I tried showing my son some video's on youtube last night (saying, daddy want to get this Audi instead of the Subaru), but we ended up looking at Ferrari's and Zonda's instead, lol. My youngest doesn't really care as long as it has a DVD in the back..

I'll do some hunting around, look at a few web sites and go and visit a few dealers. I've never sat in a A6, only an A4, and I also need to decide whether I would like a avant or saloon.

Again, huge thanks for your help.

[r1nga]

Interesting to hear a European gallon is larger than an American one. By how much? I always wondered how Europeans could afford such high gas prices and also was perplexed about how you consistently get better mileage! I average only 12-13mpg.

:rs6kiss:

US Gallon is 3.78l, Imperial Gallon is 4.54l. Strange but true.

Phil

[cornishmoocher]

Yeah, but you spell colour, color & Fag means a man who likes to kiss other men..........:)

[ben916]

Yeah, but you spell colour, color & Fag means a man who likes to kiss other men..........:)

Yeah and you say schedule, well... you know...

[ben916]

Hi guys,

I must admit, i'm pretty sold on getting an RS6.

As for prices, all high co2 / fuel costing cars are hit. With £455 road tax and high fuel prises being the issue, even insurance has gone up. I have lost 10k on my Scooby in 2 years and it's only 2 years old and low mileage. It's heartbreaking, but it's all part of owning a performance car.

My hardest task now and some of you might laugh, is convincing my 5 yr old son. He loves the Impreza and has all the models, t-shirts, bags, etc. I guess its a boys dream. I also need to convince the wife as she loves the Impreza also. I tried showing my son some video's on youtube last night (saying, daddy want to get this Audi instead of the Subaru)...

Keep Scooby and get the RS6...

[DuckWingDuck]

lol@potatoe, potatoe. ;)

[cornishmoocher]

Tomato Tomato, lets call the whole thing off!!!

[Davo]

Gareth

Im in the same boat as you looking.

An audi dealer told me yesterday that Fontain are about the best independant dealer although guess thats just his view.

I have seen one up in Leeds "Shawcroft Motors" at 28k with 42K miles. Its had the DRC just replaced, has big vented discs, full Miltek exhaust and from what I have heard it doesnt need any money spending on it having just had its big service although not sure whether its a bit over priced. I guess you get what you pay for.

cheers

[gareth60]

Hi Davo,

Docklands Audi near'ish to me has a 2003 Avant and Saloon. I'll try and pop over and take a look soon.

I think most places are a bit over priced currently, well they are compared to the Glass's guide, so i'm going to wait and see, hopefully they will drop over the next few months. I will be px'ing, so I need to keep my eye on the prices for both mine and the RS6's so I might buy myself a Glass's guide off of ebay closer to the time.

Hi Ben,
I'd love to keep the Scooby, but I cannot have three cars :brag: . My wife has the economical family diesel and I have the expensive, fun one:applause: . If I had the scooby and the Rs6, thats £900 a year in road tax:doh:

[cornishmoocher]

Docklands Audi are ok, but everything seems to be a bit more "expensive" there........

Go down to Tonbridge and see Ben or Gero, get them to do a vehicle search at no cost, they will find the exact one for you, if you are in no hurry, its a perfect solution, bought my first A4 like it. Great, got the EXACT car i wanted.

[Family Car]

Like yourself, I had two Imprezas, one grey and an RB5. Loved both, especially the RB, class car. However, I'm in Ireland, and 97 Octane was taxed out of existence over here and with it went the PPP advantages as the Prodrive ECU low octane maps are the same as standard, ie pretty poor.

I modded for a while, Link ECU etc., to adapt but finally moved to an Evo 8 FQ 340 running lucas booster which seemed to suit it (RR showed 320 HP and 320 Lb/ft compared with 230 and 218 for the RB on 95, and let's face it, it's the torque that matters 90% of the time).

I still have the Evo, largely as I can't sell it, and it drives very similar to the Impreza at eight tenths so it is useful for comparison.

The first thing I can tell you is do not by an RS for performance.

When I first picked up the RS, I was amazed at the feel, and fully expected it to be significantly quicker than the Evo. I intended putting them head to head as soon I got back and filled up with Tesco 99 in Holyhead for the occasion.

However, the occasion turned out to be a big disappointment as the Evo was quicker than the RS up to 120. After that the RS blew it away, but unless you live in Germany or near Millbrook, that really is irrelevant.

That's in a straight line. Around corners or roundabouts or your average track, forget about it.

Most of the loss comes from the gearbox, no question. Leave it in S and dump it for an in-gear pull and the Evo clears two lengths while the torque converter is scratching it's head.

As for the paddles, forget about them, they are as confused as a eunuch in a brothel most of the time. Down shifts are slow and tend to unsettle the car during cornering, upshifts are better but still nowhere near as rewarding as a crisp manual.

However, performance figures etc. are also irrelevant as it's how you feel about driving the car that matters. In feel terms, the RS is in a different class, hooked up it feels big league quick. The gearing is tall and the torque is immense, and the noise, fantastic, get one with a sunroof, it's essential I reckon.

As for running costs/reliability, well I bought mine at the end of June with a sorted DRC and went down the west of Ireland for three weeks and guess what? I no longer have a sorted DRC.

Having read some of the forums on here, it is clear that there are 50K mile cars out there on their third DRC and owners worrying about the next, out of warranty replacement. Some guys weren't getting 2K after a transplant before the problems started coming back.

In other words, budget for a replacement, I did. I bought mine for 21K with 48k on the dial and everything, bar DRC is spot on and with the Bilstein kits at about 1300, I'm not too worried. If I was you I would take it that DRC stands for Definite Replacement Coming and build it into your costing.

After three weeks in the west with no DRC, I had resolved to sell the RS, however, if I can sort the suspension, I'll be staying put. I need a wagon and I love the power and poise of the RS, it's fabulous.

However, that DRC is, to me unforgiveable. It is downright f**king dangerous. Audi are a disgrace to have let it get this bad. I only hope they get bitten by the similar problems emerging on the RS4, there are too many of them out there for the dealers, and Audi themselves, to simply ignore.

Bad job, end of.

Otherwise, the RS is great. I went out in the Evo the other night and was utterly amazed by it's power, agility, and exocet exhaust note on boost, however I spent the entire time expecting to see blue flashing lights in the rear view mirror.

That's the thing, the RS is a civilised fine claret to the Evo's vodka and red bull. Both have their place, but for me, vodka and red bull belongs in the past....