Nissan GT-R Ring time-7.29min...

[KresoF1]

...http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=17992

[Leadfoot]

OK, lets start by saying that this was done by one very skilled Nissan racing driver and it would be doubtful that someone like Horst will match that time.

Now that's out of the way, let me congrats Nissan for producing the most amazing mass produced car on the planet, you don't have to like the looks or rate the brand, hack you might not ever want to own one but you can appreciate the achievement they have made and plain love the retail price they placed on it. Now that we know the basic car is capable of under 7:30, what does that not mean the V-spec will be able to achieve. :MTM:

Now what was the time that Horst did in the GTR? ;) ..... 7:50 I believe which even though there was the odd damp patch does put into perspective the huge gap in ability between him and a true professional. And puts into question whether his times for these cars are a true reflection on what they are capable of.

Sorry KersoF1, but that last statement had to be said. :rolleyes:

[KresoF1]

Horst times on the Ring are usually marginally slower then factory times... Do a little research about Horst von Saurma before bashing him...

About that fantasy GT-R time... Nissan claimed in late 1980s that(then) their first Skyline is able to do Ring in 8.20min(in late 1980s it was awsome time)... Seven race drivers tried to achive that time in 1989 with Japanese import Skyline... NONE was able to get closer then 8.50min...

Do you know what 7.29min? For car that officialy weights 1740kg and produces 480hp(known fact is according to FOUR independant dynos in UK and USA-close to 540hp aat crank)?

So, you really belive that GT-R is faster then any Zonda, 997 GT2, Enzo, Carrera Gt etc.?

Hmm... I DO NOT.

[RXBG]

sorry guys. i don't believe the track time. one of these days they'll claim the spec V will break the 7:00 time and post a 6:52?

according to specs i cannot believe the car can be that fast.

[Leadfoot]

Do I believe that the GTR has done 7:29 in a stock GTR,:vhmmm: well I believe it as much as I believe a stock CSL did it's time of 7:50.

It all depends on whether you believe that any of these cars are in fact stock when tested. I have voiced an opinion countless times that the E46 M3 acceleration times at and around it's official launch were unbelievable for a car kicking out 339hp. My opinion of the GTR is that Nissan are giving the car more than it's quoted output and that the one that was used for this time at the ring is also special, but the same has to be true of countless others.

I say if you don't take Nissan's time at face value then you have to question all the rest.

[KresoF1]

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22591

Read it...

[Damienr8]

...http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=17992

Jesus Christ thats fast.

[RXBG]

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22591

Read it...

we have to be fair. all new cars this complicated are going to have teething issues. even i cannot hold this against the GT-R. in the end it'll probably come out being more reliable than a german sports car.

i think its outstanding performance has not been put into the proper perspective. we are all number whores. but most people don't seem to get that this car has a DSG. i think that in historical terms, particularly regarding ring times, this car needs a true manual transmision in order to really be apples to apples. and if any of you disagree that the DSG makes such a huge difference then you need to get your head out of your girlfriend's :bigeyes: and see reality. as different as an auto and a stick are- see 997 TT times- the DSG is that much better. people talk about how this 7:29 time is 1 second off the CGT. the CGT has a true manual for god's sakes. if it had a DSG the CGT would be in the 7:15 time zone. :MTM:

as the speeds increase and the curves and turns add up, transmissions like the DSG play an increasingly huge role in cutting performance times down. i mention this not to take anything away from the GT-R but to simply put things in perspective.

---------i hear nissan will be making a true manual for the car. i think these rumors are true.

[AndyBG]

If Porsche offer GT2 with PDK... It will be interesting to see that ring time

[KresoF1]

Till GT-R sales start in EU(March 2009) its Ring time will be lowered to 7.10min...;)

Is reverse it will be 7.50min...:hahahehe: ;)

[Z07]

“At last year’s testing, we were frustrated by the conditions at the Nürburgring, always believing that the GT-R could go under seven minutes 30 seconds,” said Kazutoshi Mizuno, Chief Vehicle Engineer for GT-R. “Below seven minutes 30 seconds, the GT-R proves it is among the fastest mass-production cars in the world. We set out to build a multi-performance supercar accessible to anyone, anytime and anywhere – I believe the GT-R has delivered that promise.”

Revised chassis settings:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/232532/


The new Nissan GT-R has smashed the production car lap record at the Nurburgring Nordschleife. Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn announced that a production version of the GT-R driven by Tochio Suzuki posted a lap time of 7min 29secs during testing last week, nine seconds quicker than the previous test.

Ghosn confirmed that the time means the GT-R, a base-spec Japanese car running with revised chassis settings, has delivered on one of its original design objectives: to be the “fastest production supercar” in the world.

“This proves that Nissan can compete against anyone,” he said.

The news gives an interesting perspective on unofficial timings of a Skyline GT-R V-Spec prototype caught testing at the Nordschleife, where observers suggested it was lapping in around 7min 25secs. This news means that the production GT-R V-spec is likely to be even quicker than those figures suggest.



Turns out that the 7:38 was done with preliminary suspension settings. So yes, the 7:38 time was a non-production R35. The production version is faster.

[Leadfoot]

RXBG,

I can't agree that a gearbox can make such a big difference on the lap time, what you are talking about for the Carrera GT is more than 16 seconds per lap. Sorry but that is impossible, like Kreso said BMW are quoting 5 seconds for the M3 with dual clutch so my guess is that this would be the upper limits of improvement to be had for such a setup.

On something totally different, Kreso do you know if the M3's ring time was achieved with EDC or stock suspension?

[KresoF1]

Leadie,

EDC suspension for M3.

Back OT... Simply said IMHO this Nissan claim is pure BS. Why? Physics... GT-R official weight is 1740kg, 480hp(OK, close to 540hp in reality) and Nissan claims 7.29min...

Gents, this is faster then ANY current supersports car. For the car this is slower then 997TT in 0-200km/h and much slower then 997TT in 0-300km/h...

I will stop here but, IMO Nissan claim is pure POS.

[Z07]

Leadie,

EDC suspension for M3.

Back OT... Simply said IMHO this Nissan claim is pure BS. Why? Physics... GT-R official weight is 1740kg, 480hp(OK, close to 540hp in reality) and Nissan claims 7.29min...

Gents, this is faster then ANY current supersports car. For the car this is slower then 997TT in 0-200km/h and much slower then 997TT in 0-300km/h...

I will stop here but, IMO Nissan claim is pure POS.
Correction on the above. The slowest GTR tested was slower than about the 'fastest' 997TT tested. The R&T car was slower than any other R35 tested to date. The C&D 0-200km/h time of 11.5s puts that into perspective. Now I could seize on the C&D time and say that proves it's faster than the Porsche but in reality the 2 cars are about the same in a straight line. The R&T car was a slow example and the C&D car was a fast example. The other GTRs coming in around 11.6 @ 120-121mph are about average.

As regards the 0-300km/h time, there is no evidence to back up that statement. The GTR's 6th ratio is shorter than that of the 997TT, it has more power and it has superior aerodynamics, so the result, when available, may prove otherwise.

[Leadfoot]

I too thought both cars were pretty even on acceleration, though I knew the GTR had an advantage in the corner but didn't believe it could be this much.

I also didn't know about a new chassis setup but like I have said before I am not a GTR anorak, only Audis.

The interesting thing is that EVO tested the GTR on their usual test track (Bedford) and it was only 0.5s quicker than the R8. Does this mean it was a quick R8 and a slow GTR? Personally I believe Bedford suits the R8 very well indeed and the GTR, well it works well no matter where you take it because it's times were at the top of the table, just under the ultimate hypercars and trackday specials.

Whether you believe Nissan's time or not, the GTR is a truly amazing piece of kit, well worth the price in my opinion.

Though I still wouldn't buy one. puke:

[Z07]

I too thought both cars were pretty even on acceleration, though I knew the GTR had an advantage in the corner but didn't believe it could be this much.

I also didn't know about a new chassis setup but like I have said before I am not a GTR anorak, only Audis.

The interesting thing is that EVO tested the GTR on their usual test track (Bedford) and it was only 0.5s quicker than the R8. Does this mean it was a quick R8 and a slow GTR? Personally I believe Bedford suits the R8 very well indeed and the GTR, well it works well no matter where you take it because it's times were at the top of the table, just under the ultimate hypercars and trackday specials.

Whether you believe Nissan's time or not, the GTR is a truly amazing piece of kit, well worth the price in my opinion.

Though I still wouldn't buy one. puke:

The R8 is a remarkable car with great potential, especially if they sort out the engine cooling issues and get forced induction. It's impossible to say whether a car is a fast or slow example based on a track lap as there are too many other variables. The R&T GTR was a slow example yet posted a great lap time. Track laps tend to average out fast and slow examples.

I'm looking forward to the LP560 as it combines all lessons learned from the R8 with a 560ps V10 (and less weight). The results should be amazing.:thumb:


.... and I still love the way the GTR looks, it's supposed to offend people.:D

[chewym]

I want to see a real Ring comparison test with the GT-R and the competition. Yes, it definitely has more than 480 hp. But you need some real magic to overcome 500 pounds and 50-100 less horsepower.

I don't think you can compare manufacturer supplied ring times to ones that are produced from the magazines.

I think Chevy is quoting some crazy times for the 260 hp Cobalt.

[KresoF1]

I too thought both cars were pretty even on acceleration, though I knew the GTR had an advantage in the corner but didn't believe it could be this much.

I also didn't know about a new chassis setup but like I have said before I am not a GTR anorak, only Audis.

The interesting thing is that EVO tested the GTR on their usual test track (Bedford) and it was only 0.5s quicker than the R8. Does this mean it was a quick R8 and a slow GTR? Personally I believe Bedford suits the R8 very well indeed and the GTR, well it works well no matter where you take it because it's times were at the top of the table, just under the ultimate hypercars and trackday specials.

Whether you believe Nissan's time or not, the GTR is a truly amazing piece of kit, well worth the price in my opinion.

Though I still wouldn't buy one. puke:

...look at recent big GT-R test at UK's EVO mag. They measured it on drag(against Z06) and on the Bedford track.
Test results are more then interesting... In acceleration GT-R did not beat Z06 on high speed runs. On Bedford track it achieved just 0.5s faster time then Audi R8! In fact its time is within of 0.1s of Gallardo SL time... So, it Godzilla is just 0.5s faster on Bedford then R8 how is it possible that it is more then 30s faster on the Ring? I know, I know Ring is different track just, something is wrong here. Big time wrong...

Look at situation with Gallardo SL. Same time on Bedford as GT-R just on the Ring GT-R is almost 20s faster...;)

[Z07]

...look at recent big GT-R test at UK's EVO mag. They measured it on drag(against Z06) and on the Bedford track.
Test results are more then interesting... In acceleration GT-R did not beat Z06 on high speed runs. On Bedford track it achieved just 0.5s faster time then Audi R8! In fact its time is within of 0.1s of Gallardo SL time... So, it Godzilla is just 0.5s faster on Bedford then R8 how is it possible that it is more then 30s faster on the Ring? I know, I know Ring is different track just, something is wrong here. Big time wrong...

Look at situation with Gallardo SL. Same time on Bedford as GT-R just on the Ring GT-R is almost 20s faster...;)
It's 0.1s faster than the SL at Bedford, which is over a second faster than the 997TT/GT3 at Bedford, which make 7:40 at the 'ring.

You can't really make comparisons like this. Different track, different game.

Look at the R&T track speeds. The GTR ends up with the highest point speed in most places, despite being slower in a straight line.

[KresoF1]

I was talking about German Sport Auto Ring times, achieved by Horst von Saurma. NOT about manufactures claims... 997TT never achived 7.40min, best that vona Saurma get is 7.52min. Gallardo SL achieved 7.46min by Sport Auto...
On the other hand 997 GT2 achieved 7.33min(excellent reslult since Porsche claim is 7.32min)...

Do a little research...

[Rage]

I love the GTR.....if only because it offends Porsche drivers so much.

Kind of like new money vs old money.

[Leadfoot]

So, it Godzilla is just 0.5s faster on Bedford then R8 how is it possible that it is more then 30s faster on the Ring? I know, I know Ring is different track just, something is wrong here. Big time wrong...

Look at situation with Gallardo SL. Same time on Bedford as GT-R just on the Ring GT-R is almost 20s faster...;)

My point exactly and yet no one including yourself seems to think it strange for the CSL to achieve an amazing time on the ring yet compared to the R8 it's slower on ever other track. In fact it's no quicker on any of the long straight which proves my point about the CSL.........the time was a fake.

Point being that you can't remark on one cars time without doubting every other. To me it's solely the R8's ring time which I really question, Hockenheim, Bedford and all other test at differing track all showed it to perform equally as good as cars posting 15~20s quicker on the ring.

Why????????? :confused:

[artur777]

I was talking about German Sport Auto Ring times, achieved by Horst von Saurma. NOT about manufactures claims... 997TT never achived 7.40min, best that vona Saurma get is 7.52min. Gallardo SL achieved 7.46min by Sport Auto...
On the other hand 997 GT2 achieved 7.33min(excellent reslult since Porsche claim is 7.32min)...

Do a little research...

Do you mean that GTR is marginally quicker than Gallrdo SL at the Ring - speaking frankly - it is about 7:40 min in the hands of Horst?

[KresoF1]

NO. I mean that 7.29min is probably very overoptimistic claim...

[AndyBG]

I love the GTR.....if only because it offends Porsche drivers so much.

Kind of like new money vs old money.

Interesting opinion..., it looks like that this game is all about winning Porsche..., No one complains about GT-R beating 220000 EUR worth Ferrari 599 GTB or coming close to a 1 milion EUR Enzo..., not to mention Lambo's, Paganis and all the others...

Maybe that isn't so strange, after all, Porsche is ULTIMATE SPORTS CAR! :king:

:cheers:

[tazsura]

Porsche is ULTIMATE SPORTS CAR! :king:

:cheers:


Agree!

Taz :bow:

[Rage]

Interesting opinion..., it looks like that this game is all about winning Porsche..., No one complains about GT-R beating 220000 EUR worth Ferrari 599 GTB or coming close to a 1 milion EUR Enzo..., not to mention Lambo's, Paganis and all the others...

Maybe that isn't so strange, after all, Porsche is ULTIMATE SPORTS CAR! :king:

:cheers:

Come on....you know what i mean.

Nissan set out with a very direct and simple brief. To build a car that would equal or eclipse the 997 Turbo....not the GT3/GT2...and certainly not the Ferraris or other exotics. Those cars are a different class anyhow. Most people know that, if only because virtually all the nordschleife spyshots had a 997 Turbo in trail.

AWD - 6 cylider - Turbo - 2+2. Not as light or track happy as a GT3RS. Not as brutally dangerous as a GT2. The GTR and Turbo share the same class and run the same race....just different breeding.

Would I buy one...no, i'd much rather a 997 Turbo. But I respect what Nissan set out to achieve (Name any other car manufacturer that was bold enough to put the 997TT in its crosshairs?) and to me it looks like mission accomplished. Most of the motoring press would agree.

If anything..I hope Porsche take note. :cheers:

Note also that Lexus is currently the fastest growing luxury manufacturer.

[artur777]

Rage,

from your logic GTR V-Spec is aimed at GT2 then :-)

[7:53 RS6]

ledi you read to much car mags, you only base you wrighting on carmags, its time to wake up, see the real world.

There is no point in comparing tracktimes around the world, when there is difrent drivers all time. Tochio Suzuki who is driving the GTR @ the ring is a very fast driver, as well it seems the GTR is keen on leting you get the best of it on track, its not a 993 GT2 when it come to handeling on the fast ring.

How come its so hard to understand that its the driver in the end that makes the big diffrence. Horst lap a stock R8 in a Sport Auto lap( SA lap) on the ring on corsa r-compound ap 12-15 seconds slower than Frank Stippler in the same car, I been on the ring with Frank Stippler in the Sport Auto drivers training among others like Cristian Mentzel and Wolfgang kaufmann and Horst von Saurma of course.

How come you have so hard to understand that even I can lap a stock CSL at ap the same laptimes Horst v Saurma do, would not that be a prof god as any that HvS lap is very tru then?. I know HvS speed thru Sport Auto logg via the D2 datalogger when he is in the stock CSL on the ring.

Hear me now, please, I know his exakt GPS speeds at every section of the ring. Horst only do 232 GPS Km/h as a Vmax at the Foxhole section in a stock CSL, I do logg 243 GPS Km/h in my stock CSL AT THE EXAKT SAME SECTION, FOXHOLE! Entering Swalbenswans he is at 211 GPS km as Vmax in a stock CSL, I am the same 211 GPS here at this section. Entering over the big bump going over it approaching Swendenkreuz he is logging 245 GPS km/h as a Vmax in a stock CSL, I am at 244 GPS km/h in my stock CSL. Upp from Bergwerk tru Kesselchen before entering Klostertal 1 he reach impressive 222 GPS km/h as a Vmax in the CSL, I reach at the same section 218 GPS km/h as topp... real SPEED in my stock CSL.

And it go on like this all around track, now my frame of reference is slightly diffrent than yours, I have been on the ring since 1993, to me its not hard to understand the stock CSL laptime is VERY, VERY tru, as i do it my selv in my stock CSL more or less:applause: A logging divice as Sport Auto use D2 come in handy, or a Driftbox(mini Vbox) I carry more or less the same speeds in my CSL as HvS did in the one they tested in august 2003, that car was as stock as mine, even more soo, as I got other pads, diffrent cambers from stock.

You cant agru with me as i know what I talk about as I been logging my selv and plenty others with GPS accurate logging divice for years. I even used the same logging diviece Horst von Saurma use in the supertest when he do all testing(D2).

So please stop caling the CSL a fake, as you hardly know anything about its preformce in real life.

Whats so strange if Tochio Suzuki did improve his lap on the ring with ap 10sec, if you push it there you are bound to go faster every where. All peopel can improve massive on the ring if going at it, you could find speed every where, as its so scary at places you hardly go MAXIMUM(even you think so, but its not the case, you could always go faster), only Stefan Bellof did that.

Horst will straight out what GTR make, as HvS is a decent and kind of fair comparision vs all other cars he driven on the ring. Sure it will never be 100% fair, but all god to make assumptions. As well the end time is not telling the whole story, if you pay more intresst to the speeds carrying at all different sections you would get the picture in a diferent way, rather then what 7.50min tell you!!! its just the end time and dont tell you that much vs the complete picture arount the track. As well study griplevels and braking.

Here is a friend of me laping a 550hp CSL at 7.22 on stock michelin cup tiers, he would most likely lap at 7.15 if no traffick and some slightly varmer temps in tarmac. Please note this car is not Factory build, its done by a friend of me, I am not saying its bad, but its another ball game in a factory build Nissan GTR, even the GTR is porkyer it gain in other areas on the fast ring, where pork is not that big issu, GTR even out lap a 997 GT3 on Bedford, the GTR is a new breed, its not that importent if its got 500hp or 550, its still impressive..

Porky seems not to be an issu to Nissan, they have re writhen the map, things is in progress, and thing is not allways what they used to be. This lap is the same as Sport auto drive as well Tochio Suzuki did in GTR on the ring, its the 20.6km lap of the ring, and not the complete 20.8km lap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRBqE6Y5WaA&feature=user


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL7T9BD_Q3k&feature=user

I been sitting as a passanger with this guy at previus record tryouts on the ring in this CSL logging the laps. I been sitting in with Horst von Saurma around the ring in a 997 GT3 RS. Horst is no way near as aggressiv and fast as Tochio Suzuki or my friend laping in this vid. I am very impressed of Nissan GTR, still Horst will not go as quick as Tochio Suzuki would be my guess, but not that much slower.

Best of all, this Nissan GTR thing is going on right under the nose of BMW M department at Garching, even worse on their back yard.....hence things will HAPPEN in the new CSL I am pretty sure :cheers:
So in due time you will have your selv another fast laptime from a stock factory CSL to figure out, its soon 2010, things progress!

[AndyBG]

Excelent post there., 7:53 RS 6... :thumb:


Come on....you know what i mean.

Nissan set out with a very direct and simple brief....

Yes, I know what you are talking about, but am I not wright when I say that everybody is pointing out to Porsche when it comes to Nissan times, and still, its times are better (or maybe actualy not) from the Ferraris, Lambo's and many other super-cars...

911 is very old concept, and as 7:53 RS6 said, its nearly 2010, but Porsche is still ruling with car that was started its campaign in 1963!

I don't see any other car even to have its engine behind rear wheels, not to tell sport car...

:cheers:

[Z07]

I was talking about German Sport Auto Ring times, achieved by Horst von Saurma. NOT about manufactures claims... 997TT never achived 7.40min, best that vona Saurma get is 7.52min. Gallardo SL achieved 7.46min by Sport Auto...
On the other hand 997 GT2 achieved 7.33min(excellent reslult since Porsche claim is 7.32min)...

Do a little research...
I'm well aware of these times. The track was wet during the GTR lap and the same guy failed to break 8 minutes in a R8. I'd probably fail to break 9 minutes in a GT2. Everyone has fielded their car with their best driver and the outright records stand. Walter Rohrl has driven the Porsches flat-out so it doesn't get much better than that.

I'd expect the Gallardo SL to be very fast on the 'ring. Light car, ceramic brakes. The LP560 should be even better.

[Z07]

NO. I mean that 7.29min is probably very overoptimistic claim...
There's no such thing as an optimistic claim. It's either you're saying it's BS or you aren't. Which is it?


Interesting opinion..., it looks like that this game is all about winning Porsche..., No one complains about GT-R beating 220000 EUR worth Ferrari 599 GTB or coming close to a 1 milion EUR Enzo..., not to mention Lambo's, Paganis and all the others...

Maybe that isn't so strange, after all, Porsche is ULTIMATE SPORTS CAR! :king:

:cheers:
But sadly no production 911 has ever gone faster than the R35 around the 'ring.

[AndyBG]

But sadly no production 911 has ever gone faster than the R35 around the 'ring.

If those numbers we are getting for Nissan are true, that is 100% correct.

But don't you think that having your engine behind your rear wheels is just a little bit of a disadvantage...?

Engieniering level on 911 is very high! It will be interesting to see new 997/911 turbo and GT2 equiped with PDK responding to this ''Nissan attack".

:cheers:

[artur777]

Only time will tell Porsche when to stop 911 concept in its current way...
The engine-behind-rear-wheels concept is obsolete.

R8 concept - mid-engine one - is the best up-to-date.
I believe that future is for that concepts. And better performance, track times and etc also for such cars...

[buyalemon]

Learn to love it!! ...a real sportscar doesn't have to be "RUF/Ferrari expensive"! Don't see why Horst's slow driving should go down on Nissan ...I'm sure he's done more laps on the ring than this Zusuki-guy?? ... rather the laps Horst has done in a GT-R compared to all similar porsches...??

This really seem to hurt the world of Porche fans ...shouldn't Nissan be great just because Porsche is overpriced? ...weird thinking!

[Rage]

Excelent post there., 7:53 RS 6... :thumb:



Yes, I know what you are talking about, but am I not wright when I say that everybody is pointing out to Porsche when it comes to Nissan times, and still, its times are better (or maybe actualy not) from the Ferraris, Lambo's and many other super-cars...

911 is very old concept, and as 7:53 RS6 said, its nearly 2010, but Porsche is still ruling with car that was started its campaign in 1963!

I don't see any other car even to have its engine behind rear wheels, not to tell sport car...

:cheers:

I dont see the rear engine argument as a valid excuse. having the engine there is great for traction and no doubt helps with the drivetrain efficiency and fantastic feel of the transmission.

The 911 is a great car, but porsche has had 40 years to perfect it. At the same time it cripples the Cayman, an arguably better car, so as not to embarrass its older brother. Imagine if the new Cayman S had 380HP, PDK, LSD, Carrera S brakes etc etc..It would be a much better car than the 911. Porsche would never allow it though. That kind of cynical marketing really puts me off. I would find it very dissapointing if I bought a car only to realise that the maufacturers had deliberatley crippled it so as not embarrass its icon. The whole idea is to push buyers into the Carrera S.

Perhaps my biggest beef..is that with competition from the R8 and the increasing belief that the Cayman is a 'true' porsche, they decide to buy up VW and end the R8 (possibly high performance TTs also) and also delay any potential Cayman upgrades till the 911 has had enough time in the spotlight this summer.

[AndyBG]

Very pessimistic statement. If you think that Porsche is going into whole VAG deal just to preserve 911 as No. 1, just isn't logical to me..., Ok, they will stop R8 and keep ''crippling'' Cayman, but they can't do that with the other, Ferrari and Nissan for example.

When I'm talking about 911s rear engine format, I'm not saying its something good, I'm saying that is OLD and very BAD for the car in many ways, yet again 911 is on the top. Porsche had its mid engine ''excercise'' it was called Carrera GT, I think that you will remmeber that car, it was by far best ''super car'' of its time. In some moment Porsche will drop 911s concept in favour of mid engined cars, but until there is place for rear engine concept to be upgraded and 911 continues to be on the top, as it is still now, they want do that.

When it comes to Cayman, I really don't see any problem there. If someone like it he will buy it, if not he can take his money somewhere else. I don't see the way that Porsche is crippled Cayman... :confused: Yes, there is plenty of room for that car to be much better, but no one is telling customers anything else. As I said, if somebody likes it the way it is, he will buy it. I don't see the way someone can discover later that his car was crippled?

Anyway, Nissan is great and very, very fast car, but I personaly prefer Porsche.

All best, Andy!

:cheers:

[Leadfoot]

7:53 RS6,

I was trying to bring KersoF1 into an argument about the GTR's time by using the CSL as bait. ;)

My point was that you can't pick on one car's time and call it fake and not others which seems to out-perform what should be expected of them. I know you have done similar times as Horst in your own CSL, but choosing to call the CSL'd time as fake was to see if Kerso would agree. I don't know why the R8 didn't perform in Horst's hand on that day, the car is clearly capable of so much more and yet on that day it didn't.

Back on topic, the GTR's time is 7:29, I don't see why Nissan would want or need to tell lies to sell the car, the very fact that it's out-performing everything in it's class and most of the stuff above it will make it sell without an incredible ring time. Whether someone of Horst's caliber can get close to what the GTR is capable of doesn't not meant that it can't be done, only that Horst isn't the man to do it that's all.

Your comments on the new CSL, is it really coming or just a smoke screen that BMW are making. For BMW to improve on the old CSL time would take some going in my opinion, most of the tricks they had on the CSL are already on the E92 M3, CF roof etc. I think when the new M3 with DGK laps the ring and produces a time will maybe show what a new CSL can be capable of. My guess for this M3 DKG will be 8mins dead.

Question is, will the RS5 be able to better that? ;)

[Z07]

If those numbers we are getting for Nissan are true, that is 100% correct.

But don't you think that having your engine behind your rear wheels is just a little bit of a disadvantage...?



Engieniering level on 911 is very high! It will be interesting to see new 997/911 turbo and GT2 equiped with PDK responding to this ''Nissan attack".

:cheers:
That it will and that's the way it should be. Competition driving the game on.:thumb:

[rks838]

Road and Track got similarly amazing results. The GT-R beat the Z06 and 911 Turbo by five seconds on a two-minutes-per-lap track! http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6594 I think the 7:29 time is the real deal.

[KresoF1]

ledi you read to much car mags, you only base you wrighting on carmags, its time to wake up, see the real world.

There is no point in comparing tracktimes around the world, when there is difrent drivers all time. Tochio Suzuki who is driving the GTR @ the ring is a very fast driver, as well it seems the GTR is keen on leting you get the best of it on track, its not a 993 GT2 when it come to handeling on the fast ring.

How come its so hard to understand that its the driver in the end that makes the big diffrence. Horst lap a stock R8 in a Sport Auto lap( SA lap) on the ring on corsa r-compound ap 12-15 seconds slower than Frank Stippler in the same car, I been on the ring with Frank Stippler in the Sport Auto drivers training among others like Cristian Mentzel and Wolfgang kaufmann and Horst von Saurma of course.

How come you have so hard to understand that even I can lap a stock CSL at ap the same laptimes Horst v Saurma do, would not that be a prof god as any that HvS lap is very tru then?. I know HvS speed thru Sport Auto logg via the D2 datalogger when he is in the stock CSL on the ring.

Hear me now, please, I know his exakt GPS speeds at every section of the ring. Horst only do 232 GPS Km/h as a Vmax at the Foxhole section in a stock CSL, I do logg 243 GPS Km/h in my stock CSL AT THE EXAKT SAME SECTION, FOXHOLE! Entering Swalbenswans he is at 211 GPS km as Vmax in a stock CSL, I am the same 211 GPS here at this section. Entering over the big bump going over it approaching Swendenkreuz he is logging 245 GPS km/h as a Vmax in a stock CSL, I am at 244 GPS km/h in my stock CSL. Upp from Bergwerk tru Kesselchen before entering Klostertal 1 he reach impressive 222 GPS km/h as a Vmax in the CSL, I reach at the same section 218 GPS km/h as topp... real SPEED in my stock CSL.

And it go on like this all around track, now my frame of reference is slightly diffrent than yours, I have been on the ring since 1993, to me its not hard to understand the stock CSL laptime is VERY, VERY tru, as i do it my selv in my stock CSL more or less:applause: A logging divice as Sport Auto use D2 come in handy, or a Driftbox(mini Vbox) I carry more or less the same speeds in my CSL as HvS did in the one they tested in august 2003, that car was as stock as mine, even more soo, as I got other pads, diffrent cambers from stock.

You cant agru with me as i know what I talk about as I been logging my selv and plenty others with GPS accurate logging divice for years. I even used the same logging diviece Horst von Saurma use in the supertest when he do all testing(D2).

So please stop caling the CSL a fake, as you hardly know anything about its preformce in real life.

Whats so strange if Tochio Suzuki did improve his lap on the ring with ap 10sec, if you push it there you are bound to go faster every where. All peopel can improve massive on the ring if going at it, you could find speed every where, as its so scary at places you hardly go MAXIMUM(even you think so, but its not the case, you could always go faster), only Stefan Bellof did that.

Horst will straight out what GTR make, as HvS is a decent and kind of fair comparision vs all other cars he driven on the ring. Sure it will never be 100% fair, but all god to make assumptions. As well the end time is not telling the whole story, if you pay more intresst to the speeds carrying at all different sections you would get the picture in a diferent way, rather then what 7.50min tell you!!! its just the end time and dont tell you that much vs the complete picture arount the track. As well study griplevels and braking.

Here is a friend of me laping a 550hp CSL at 7.22 on stock michelin cup tiers, he would most likely lap at 7.15 if no traffick and some slightly varmer temps in tarmac. Please note this car is not Factory build, its done by a friend of me, I am not saying its bad, but its another ball game in a factory build Nissan GTR, even the GTR is porkyer it gain in other areas on the fast ring, where pork is not that big issu, GTR even out lap a 997 GT3 on Bedford, the GTR is a new breed, its not that importent if its got 500hp or 550, its still impressive..

Porky seems not to be an issu to Nissan, they have re writhen the map, things is in progress, and thing is not allways what they used to be. This lap is the same as Sport auto drive as well Tochio Suzuki did in GTR on the ring, its the 20.6km lap of the ring, and not the complete 20.8km lap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRBqE6Y5WaA&feature=user


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL7T9BD_Q3k&feature=user

I been sitting as a passanger with this guy at previus record tryouts on the ring in this CSL logging the laps. I been sitting in with Horst von Saurma around the ring in a 997 GT3 RS. Horst is no way near as aggressiv and fast as Tochio Suzuki or my friend laping in this vid. I am very impressed of Nissan GTR, still Horst will not go as quick as Tochio Suzuki would be my guess, but not that much slower.

Best of all, this Nissan GTR thing is going on right under the nose of BMW M department at Garching, even worse on their back yard.....hence things will HAPPEN in the new CSL I am pretty sure :cheers:
So in due time you will have your selv another fast laptime from a stock factory CSL to figure out, its soon 2010, things progress!

So, you claim that you and your friends are better drivers then Horst?

OK...

Since you have that much Ring experience(I do not and I just had a chance to speak twice with Horst since one of my best friends works for Motorpresse) do you know what 7.29min actually means?

BTW, Horst is pretty agressive when he is ALONE in the car on the Ring... With you or me as a passegner he simply can not be that agressive...

[Leadfoot]

So, you claim that you and your friends are better drivers then Horst?

OK...

Since you have that much Ring experience(I do not and I just had a chance to speak twice with Horst since one of my best friends works for Motorpresse) do you know what 7.29min actually means?

BTW, Horst is pretty agressive when he is ALONE in the car on the Ring... With you or me as a passegner he simply can not be that agressive...

You are expecting too much from old Horst, after all he is about 82yrs old by now. :lovl:

[KresoF1]

Maybe I do since youngsters here on rs6.com claim that they are better drivers then him...

[Leadfoot]

Maybe I do since youngsters here on rs6.com claim that they are better drivers then him...

No claim on my part but I don't think he is as good as most of the test drivers in employment with the manufacturers.

He's good, but he has the same skills to extract the same from each car, some he will feel more at home with and others not so. A true professional can extract the same from each no problem and that the real difference.

[GeCcO]

Saw a white GT-R here in Thailand a couple of days ago. Wow, it looked preetty good in person and the sound wasn't any worse than the looks of it ;)

[RXBG]

No claim on my part but I don't think he is as good as most of the test drivers in employment with the manufacturers.

He's good, but he has the same skills to extract the same from each car, some he will feel more at home with and others not so. A true professional can extract the same from each no problem and that the real difference.

that's the point in this ring time argument. when you have a nissan test driver that has been involved with the R and D of the GTR for 2 yrs and effectively is that car's specialist. put him in the ZR1 and he may not be able to do what a ZR1 test driver could do in that car.

[Benman]

Road and Track got similarly amazing results. The GT-R beat the Z06 and 911 Turbo by five seconds on a two-minutes-per-lap track! http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6594 I think the 7:29 time is the real deal.


I read the same test but keep in mind that Steve Millen was an ex-Nissan factory racecar driver. ;)

Ben:addict:

[JavierNuvolari]

MMmmm...
The GTR is destroying RS6.com :S

[Leadfoot]

MMmmm...
The GTR is destroying RS6.com :S

Not destroying RS6.com, it's just some light-minded enthusiasts discussing all things motor related and on this occasion it's the GTR, next month it will be something different.

I doubt too many of us would seriously consider the GTR as an alternative to an RS Audi. I for one would pick an RS5 or TT/RS ahead of it, even if the big Nissan give me a spanking, there's more to the experience of ownership than driving quickly and on this level I doubt the GTR will match an RS5.

[Z07]

Not destroying RS6.com, it's just some light-minded enthusiasts discussing all things motor related and on this occasion it's the GTR, next month it will be something different.

I doubt too many of us would seriously consider the GTR as an alternative to an RS Audi. I for one would pick an RS5 or TT/RS ahead of it, even if the big Nissan give me a spanking, there's more to the experience of ownership than driving quickly and on this level I doubt the GTR will match an RS5.
I must admit, being saluted by school children can be embarassing at times.

[Benman]

I doubt too many of us would seriously consider the GTR as an alternative to an RS Audi.


I am actually considering it in liue of the RS 6 MkII... I am the exception, I know. :D

:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[7:53 RS6]

Learn to love it!! ...a real sportscar doesn't have to be "RUF/Ferrari expensive"! Don't see why Horst's slow driving should go down on Nissan ...I'm sure he's done more laps on the ring than this Zusuki-guy?? ... rather the laps Horst has done in a GT-R compared to all similar porsches...??

This really seem to hurt the world of Porche fans ...shouldn't Nissan be great just because Porsche is overpriced? ...weird thinking!

Well the thing with Horst v Saurma and the supertest they do is ...we give it a go around the ring and what we see is what we get. His aim is not to drive around the ring in the GTR or what ever car he test in like 7 days in a row to get the maximum absolute lowest laptime he can manage. HvS just put a car out there on the ring and give it a few laps and see what he gets, well done. Also this is a reason why he is not the fastest one there, but very talented still.

Looking at the GTR, well this susuki guy is only aiming at maximum low laptimes in their own cars, call it smart marketing, as low laptimes on the ring will bring the dollars in!! Not only is this susuki guy a very skilled driver(its not about how many laps you done on the ring) he also put pressure on the GTR for days and weeks to go fast on the ring.

HvS do not work in the same way, far from, HvS is kind of doing a real world preformance test in loaner cars. Like if you are launching a GT3 from 0-100 one or two times you get a time on the klock, if you launch a GT3 0-100km the whole day you are bound to reach lower times?

So i would be very surprised if Host V S lap a GTR at 7.29min in his loaner GTR wich he wants to give back to its owner in one pice.

But still I am sure the GTR would bring out the best in many drivers.

[Z07]

If Horst attempted to get really low lap times in just a few laps, there'd be debris and wreckage left, right and centre. It figures that he pulls punches when cornering and finishes intact. So naturally, the cars with straight line speed appear faster than the outright times suggest.

[Leadfoot]

If Horst attempted to get really low lap times in just a few laps, there'd be debris and wreckage left, right and centre. It figures that he pulls punches when cornering and finishes intact. So naturally, the cars with straight line speed appear faster than the outright times suggest.

Never been to the ring (looking to go this summer, fingers crossed) but with all I have read it sounds like the kind of course which one can't just jump into a car and make it go quick out of the box and this is regardless of how well one knows the track. I reckon unlike other normal circuits the ring requires you to become comfortable with the cars limits before you can really commit, which is totally different to a track like Hockenheim where there is run-off areas in all the right places so even over stepping the mark causes no problems. That is why the R8 might be performing really well there but less so on the ring, the car is plenty capable but the driver might not be as willing to commit the same as in something else.

[7:53 RS6]

So, you claim that you and your friends are better drivers then Horst?

OK...

Since you have that much Ring experience(I do not and I just had a chance to speak twice with Horst since one of my best friends works for Motorpresse) do you know what 7.29min actually means?

BTW, Horst is pretty agressive when he is ALONE in the car on the Ring... With you or me as a passegner he simply can not be that agressive...


To answer your question if my friend that drive the 550hp CSL on the ring is better than HvS....YES. HE IS.

He is a former ETCC champion, he is a several STCC champion.
He is slightly, slightly outlaping Hans Joacim Stuck in Schubert Motorsport BMW Z4 M racecar on the ring, also outlap Stuck junior and Claudia Hurtgren...eh they all do drive the Shubert Z4m race car on the ring. He is doing 24H this year as well in the Shubert team. HvS is also driving VLN in a Honda at times, he is a Motor presse guy, HVS is NOT a proffessionall driver, my friend is.

Yes I would know very well what 7.29 mean, I can very much see the GTR at that pace around. You seems to forget that HvS is just a car mag editor, he drive lonar cars, wich he would moast likely be happy to deliver back after the supertest in one pice to the owner that gave him the car in the first place.

Do you think the susuki guys care less if they put the GTR in the Armcro when pressing on for the superb marketing world wide low ring lap time, well I think NOT, its their car isnt it.

And last, even a hobbydriver as my selv logg higher Vmax than HvS in the CSL at foxhole, whats so special about that, HvS had a go in a CSL aug 2003 on the ring,

I driven mine for 4 years on the ring, its been parked there. I bet If HvS had his loaner CSL from BMW marketing guys over 4 years driving it on the ring he would go faster thru Foxhole as well, he would most fore sure even lap that stock CSL under 7.50min on the lap as well after 4 years, see my point??
HvS is for abvious reasons not a refrence for the fastest laps on the ring in his loaner cars. BMW chassi engineers are outlaping him by plenty of seconds, one dont nead to be a rocketsientict to figure out why. They did lap sub 8min in the E60 M5, HvS is way slower. Its not HvS car is it, my bet is that reason hold him back, what would you say.

Still I would say HvS laps is the best reference as he is doing the same real world test in all cars on the ring, but he is for many reasons not the fastest driver, and its not importent in the end anyway, what he do is superb anyway.
HvS is not a proffessional racedriver, the guy driving the CSL in the film is!

[7:53 RS6]

Never been to the ring (looking to go this summer, fingers crossed) but with all I have read it sounds like the kind of course which one can't just jump into a car and make it go quick out of the box and this is regardless of how well one knows the track. I reckon unlike other normal circuits the ring requires you to become comfortable with the cars limits before you can really commit, which is totally different to a track like Hockenheim where there is run-off areas in all the right places so even over stepping the mark causes no problems. That is why the R8 might be performing really well there but less so on the ring, the car is plenty capable but the driver might not be as willing to commit the same as in something else.

Well Said. Thats the reason why HvS can not differ the 997 GT3 vs 997 GT3 RS on the ring. He is laping bothe cars in the same time. But on kliner hockenheim HvS can bring out the better of the 997 GT3 RS vs the 997 GT3.

Sure the 997 GT3 RS is a superior track car than 997 GT3 but due to HvS came in on same lap time on ring most peopel belive both cars are the same. They are far from the same but it take some from the driver to bring it out on the ring, and HvS is not that man. On safe kliner hockenheim he is the man and will differ the RS vs GT3 by a lot. The wider RS, the stiffer shell RS, etc, etc the small diffrencec is more easy to take advantange of on that small track, rather than scary ring.

[Benman]

Never been to the ring (looking to go this summer, fingers crossed)...


Leadie, not even once?!? Shame on you! :D Seriously, you must go. But I warn you, once you have experienced the "Northern Loop", all other tracks will be ruined forever. ;) Yep, it really is that good.


All this talk about Gote and his friends not being good drivers... tell you what, go for a drive with him or one of his friends and then get back to me. Those fellas can drive.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Leadie, not even once?!? Shame on you! :D Seriously, you must go. But I warn you, once you have experienced the "Northern Loop", all other tracks will be ruined forever. ;) Yep, it really is that good.


All this talk about Gote and his friends not being good drivers... tell you what, go for a drive with him or one of his friends and then get back to me. Those fellas can drive.:cheers:

Ben:addict:


Well technically I have driven on it lots of times (GT4 :D ) but though you know every corner that is coming up you don't get the camber, bumpiness, etc to really know what to expect. The line through the corners and braking distances aren't a problem, that's basic stuff that anyone with a decent amount of experience will get right, it the other stuff like I already mentioned and the dips and crest plus the changing surfaces that will be tricky to get to grips with.

Though I reckon if you are remotely handy behind the wheel you should get to within 15% of what it's truly capable of. Meaning if the car could lap the ring in 8 mins a decent pilot with only a handful of laps (15laps) should be able to lap the same car in 9:12. That might not sound that great but I reckon 7:53 RS6 would agree that this would still be some achievement. I would be pretty confident that I could get the RS4 round the ring in something like that time.

NOW WHO'S UP FOR LOANING ME THEIR CAR THIS SUMMER. :D

[KresoF1]

To answer your question if my friend that drive the 550hp CSL on the ring is better than HvS....YES. HE IS.

He is a former ETCC champion, he is a several STCC champion.
He is slightly, slightly outlaping Hans Joacim Stuck in Schubert Motorsport BMW Z4 M racecar on the ring, also outlap Stuck junior and Claudia Hurtgren...eh they all do drive the Shubert Z4m race car on the ring. He is doing 24H this year as well in the Shubert team. HvS is also driving VLN in a Honda at times, he is a Motor presse guy, HVS is NOT a proffessionall driver, my friend is.

Yes I would know very well what 7.29 mean, I can very much see the GTR at that pace around. You seems to forget that HvS is just a car mag editor, he drive lonar cars, wich he would moast likely be happy to deliver back after the supertest in one pice to the owner that gave him the car in the first place.

Do you think the susuki guys care less if they put the GTR in the Armcro when pressing on for the superb marketing world wide low ring lap time, well I think NOT, its their car isnt it.

And last, even a hobbydriver as my selv logg higher Vmax than HvS in the CSL at foxhole, whats so special about that, HvS had a go in a CSL aug 2003 on the ring,

I driven mine for 4 years on the ring, its been parked there. I bet If HvS had his loaner CSL from BMW marketing guys over 4 years driving it on the ring he would go faster thru Foxhole as well, he would most fore sure even lap that stock CSL under 7.50min on the lap as well after 4 years, see my point??
HvS is for abvious reasons not a refrence for the fastest laps on the ring in his loaner cars. BMW chassi engineers are outlaping him by plenty of seconds, one dont nead to be a rocketsientict to figure out why. They did lap sub 8min in the E60 M5, HvS is way slower. Its not HvS car is it, my bet is that reason hold him back, what would you say.

Still I would say HvS laps is the best reference as he is doing the same real world test in all cars on the ring, but he is for many reasons not the fastest driver, and its not importent in the end anyway, what he do is superb anyway.
HvS is not a proffessional racedriver, the guy driving the CSL in the film is!


I agree with about 85% of your post!:jlol:

Just there is one thing Horst achieved pretty fast time(7.33min) with 997 GT2. Do not forget that Rohrl time is 7.32min for 997 GT2. So, in some cars Horst in pretty fast... You are right-Horst only do about three laps on the Ring. First one is usually the fastest one... Why only three laps? Well... First he picked a time when Ring is pretty empty. Second, belive it or not(I drove only once on the Ring in also loaner car) since you are Ring expert many sportscars experience brakes problems after just two laps on the Ring!

BTW, all cars that Sport Auto testes are not loaners cars.They are offical press cars directly from manufactures(and these cars are usually better then costumer cars)... Horst do not loan the car from personal owner but, Audi(for example) gives the magazine their R8 for some period of time(usually three weeks)...

Regarding R8 time... Best achivement from Stippler is 7.55min for R8 without Navi, B&O, CD Changer, heated seats etc. BUT, with Ceramics, Bucket seats and Corsas... Stippler drove R8 that nobody wants to buy if you understand me... Brilliant Red that Horst drove was almost a copy of that car but, with Navi and CD Changer. This red one was about 16kg heavier then Stippler test mule... One other interesting thing is that both Stippler test mule and Horst test R8 was not equiped with Magnetic Ride... Even instructor R8s on Audi Driving experience are NOT equiped with Magnetic Ride... Interesting...

Regarding 7.29min... Well, Horst did 7.50min with grey GT-R test mule on the partially damp Ring(he did ONLY one lap... Karussel corner was completely damp)... I saw test data and sector time actually looked very good... Just few remarks-Doettinger Hoehe top speed was not that good and if Ring was dry Horst time would be in 7.45min-7.43min area...

[Leadfoot]

There's no point in knocking Horst as a driver and to be honest 7:53 RS6 isn't doing that. I personally don't think the actual example he gave was the right one to used based on my thinking, the GT3RS vs GT3 are closely matched in terms of outright performance and all the advantage that the RS model has is in stiffer suspension and chassis. The ring a believe is extremely bumpy and usually cars which are stiffer and work well on a smooth track don't fair as well round here, that might explain why the GT3RS is quicker on tracks like Hockenheim and Bedford but not the ring.

This still throws up the R8 issue, why does it not at least match the CSL, it's performance shadows the BMW, it's quicker on normal tracks and yet it's also more forgiving on difficult surfaces which really has me a bit confused, I know the CSL's time is right, 7:53 RS6 has all but matched it so either the R8 doesn't like the ring or the ones tested were under the weather, both opinions which don't sit well with me personally.

From the info I have the R8 during testing lapped in the 7:50 mark and was reaching a lot more than 256Km/h peak recorded by SportAuto.

[KresoF1]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=126103?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..2 .*

[tazsura]

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=18019

Don't know if this is new info regarding the 'Ring time...

Taz :mech:

[AndyBG]

I'm very ''suprised'' to see this... :hihi:

Here's one more link, same story...

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/05/brits-support-that-nurburgring-record.html

[Z07]

So it's a Euro-Spec GTR. I'm European* so that's not a problem.


*I'm British really but we get Euro-Spec cars.

[AndyBG]

Is there any official difference between Euro and ''rest of the world'' version?

[KresoF1]

Is there any official difference between Euro and ''rest of the world'' version?

EU specs GT-R do not exist yet. Sale in good old Europe starts in late April 2009. First costumer EU specs GT-R will be hopefully delivered in May 2009!

According to official GT-R price list for Germany there is still NO Data about CO2 emissions and fuel consumption. Same story about final weight of GT-R for EU market. All this things will be presented in early 2009...:vhmmm:

Other interesting fact is that optional HDD Navi system for GT-R will NOT be available for first EU cars! If you want GT-R with Navi you will have to wait-now, here this-October 2009!:(

Just this few fact are telling us something, GT-R is far from ready for EU market...;)


BTW, all current GT-Rs in UK are JDM(Japan Domestic Market) grey import cars. Even R.Meaden from EVO said that he will withhold his final judgement about GT-R until he drives EU specs car somewhere in 2009...

[KresoF1]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008-nissan-gt-r-review/

[7:53 RS6]

I agree with about 85% of your post!:jlol:

Just there is one thing Horst achieved pretty fast time(7.33min) with 997 GT2. Do not forget that Rohrl time is 7.32min for 997 GT2. So, in some cars Horst in pretty fast... You are right-Horst only do about three laps on the Ring. First one is usually the fastest one... Why only three laps? Well... First he picked a time when Ring is pretty empty. Second, belive it or not(I drove only once on the Ring in also loaner car) since you are Ring expert many sportscars experience brakes problems after just two laps on the Ring!

BTW, all cars that Sport Auto testes are not loaners cars.They are offical press cars directly from manufactures(and these cars are usually better then costumer cars)... Horst do not loan the car from personal owner but, Audi(for example) gives the magazine their R8 for some period of time(usually three weeks)...

Regarding R8 time... Best achivement from Stippler is 7.55min for R8 without Navi, B&O, CD Changer, heated seats etc. BUT, with Ceramics, Bucket seats and Corsas... Stippler drove R8 that nobody wants to buy if you understand me... Brilliant Red that Horst drove was almost a copy of that car but, with Navi and CD Changer. This red one was about 16kg heavier then Stippler test mule... One other interesting thing is that both Stippler test mule and Horst test R8 was not equiped with Magnetic Ride... Even instructor R8s on Audi Driving experience are NOT equiped with Magnetic Ride... Interesting...

Regarding 7.29min... Well, Horst did 7.50min with grey GT-R test mule on the partially damp Ring(he did ONLY one lap... Karussel corner was completely damp)... I saw test data and sector time actually looked very good... Just few remarks-Doettinger Hoehe top speed was not that good and if Ring was dry Horst time would be in 7.45min-7.43min area...

Oh i did not know HvS yet to drive GTR on the ring, but i seen the japs in the wet karussel in the GTR.
Loaner car was my meaning from supplyer of course, still he would not be happy if in Armcro.
Even in some cars HvS is not far behind Walter R, point is Horst is not the fastest guy on the ring, the pro drivers are up a level in speed. If HvS was the fastest he would not be a carmag editor would he?. But even hobbydrivers are fast, i know that. So therfor one nead to take Sport Auto for what is, a very god real world preformance test. Its no kamikaze all out maximum ring reference, many are faster than him, even that not so intressting. Whats intressting and i bet you agree is HvS drive all cars, but still age are not making him faster by the years he grow older, The foxhole is a scary place even in your 30s and it gets more scary at 60, risk reward issues are changing with age:-)

And braking issues would not be a problem in a sportscar of today on the ring in a few laps especaly not on a free track as coling is god then all time as well you dont use the brakes that much if you are going very fast on the ring. Thats the whole point those that go very fast on the ring in a free lap keeps the momentum of the car and not braking that much. Those that go slow cut the enegry braking all over the place and nead to reaccelerate all time, this behavior will make brakes suffer as they are feeding brakes with heat all time around then. If to study a datalogg on the ring its clear the fast guys hardly use the brakes at all where the slow guys brake everywhere just in case(genarally speaking)
Well Stippler told me personaly he do 7.50min in R8, I take his word for it rather than anything else.

Still what this was about was GTR, and i have no problems seeing it at 7.29 by the susuki guy laping it. To me its not that importent if it got 500 or 550hp, still impressive. Heck even the stock Porsche 964 RS was said to have 260hp, it was closer to 290hp on many dynos?

[7:53 RS6]

There's no point in knocking Horst as a driver and to be honest 7:53 RS6 isn't doing that. I personally don't think the actual example he gave was the right one to used based on my thinking, the GT3RS vs GT3 are closely matched in terms of outright performance and all the advantage that the RS model has is in stiffer suspension and chassis. The ring a believe is extremely bumpy and usually cars which are stiffer and work well on a smooth track don't fair as well round here, that might explain why the GT3RS is quicker on tracks like Hockenheim and Bedford but not the ring.

This still throws up the R8 issue, why does it not at least match the CSL, it's performance shadows the BMW, it's quicker on normal tracks and yet it's also more forgiving on difficult surfaces which really has me a bit confused, I know the CSL's time is right, 7:53 RS6 has all but matched it so either the R8 doesn't like the ring or the ones tested were under the weather, both opinions which don't sit well with me personally.

From the info I have the R8 during testing lapped in the 7:50 mark and was reaching a lot more than 256Km/h peak recorded by SportAuto.

HvS is not differing the 997 GT3 from the 997 GT3 RS on the ring. On Hockenheim he is, by almost a second per lap(0.7sec if memory dont fail) Wich ads up after 20 laps. Now Walter Rhörl is differing the 997 GT3 vs the 997 GT3 RS just as it should even on the ring, by quite a few seconds. Yes its scary to go fast on the ring and HvS did not do it in the 997 GT3 RS vs 997 GT3, but WR do it.
Basicly 98% of the buyers of a 997 GT3 RS will not differ them on track vs a 997 GT3, its in the pit lane the RS will deliver. But then again there are a few % that will take advantage of the better RS on track, but they are not many. Even fewer on the ring.
Hard to make a great car even greater.
Wich get me in to the new CSL, hmm looking forward to that day anyway, I might get dissapointed, I might not. BMW might start winning F1 this year, they might not?

[Leadfoot]

HvS is not differing the 997 GT3 from the 997 GT3 RS on the ring. On Hockenheim he is, by almost a second per lap(0.7sec if memory dont fail) Wich ads up after 20 laps. Now Walter Rhörl is differing the 997 GT3 vs the 997 GT3 RS just as it should even on the ring, by quite a few seconds. Yes its scary to go fast on the ring and HvS did not do it in the 997 GT3 RS vs 997 GT3, but WR do it.
Basicly 98% of the buyers of a 997 GT3 RS will not differ them on track vs a 997 GT3, its in the pit lane the RS will deliver. But then again there are a few % that will take advantage of the better RS on track, but they are not many. Even fewer on the ring.
Hard to make a great car even greater.
Wich get me in to the new CSL, hmm looking forward to that day anyway, I might get dissapointed, I might not. BMW might start winning F1 this year, they might not?

I might not have explained myself well on this comparison (GT3RS vs GT3), my point was that when you stiffen a car that work much better on a normal track the chances are on a track like the ring this advantage will disappear, but only to the non-familiar like Horst and others but not someone like Walter Rhörl who after all developed the car in the first place. A stiff car is usually twitchy and that generally isn't great bed partners with a bumpy track, it makes braking and mid corner bumpy a little tricky. Haven't driven the RS version but I doubt I would prefer it on the ring when I think how stiff the GT3 is already.

Now to the new CSL (if it appears), I believe BMW will improve on it's time but reckon the improvements will come more so from it's extra performance than any real improvement in cornering or braking. The benefits on DKG compared to SMG will be small, especially on the track though others might have a different opinion on this to mine.

[Z07]

Is there any official difference between Euro and ''rest of the world'' version?

Yes. The US and Euro GTRs have revised suspension settings and revised engine and transmission mountings. The US GTRs are also slightly slower in a straight line due to the fact that poo qualifies as fuel over there.

[Z07]

According to official GT-R price list for Germany there is still NO Data about CO2 emissions and fuel consumption.
This is why imports are exempt from raised road taxes in the UK... and pre-2001 cars. No CO2 data.:jlol:

[Z07]

I might not have explained myself well on this comparison (GT3RS vs GT3), my point was that when you stiffen a car that work much better on a normal track the chances are on a track like the ring this advantage will disappear, but only to the non-familiar like Horst and others but not someone like Walter Rhörl who after all developed the car in the first place. A stiff car is usually twitchy and that generally isn't great bed partners with a bumpy track, it makes braking and mid corner bumpy a little tricky. Haven't driven the RS version but I doubt I would prefer it on the ring when I think how stiff the GT3 is already.
Are you talking about a stiff car or a stiff suspension? I.e. Torsional rigidity or spring rate?

[Leadfoot]

Are you talking about a stiff car or a stiff suspension? I.e. Torsional rigidity or spring rate?

Torsional rigidity is the ultimate goal of every chassis designer as it allows the suspension to work more properly. No my comments where directed at the suspension being stiffer as on bumpy surfaces it makes cars twitchy, not the kind of thing to fill you full of confidence.

The GTR has also had similar remarks voiced in it's direction, saying that it's suspension don't follow over the surface as well as the 997tt. Maybe these new revisions are readdressing this and improving how the GTR rides.

[Z07]

Torsional rigidity is the ultimate goal of every chassis designer as it allows the suspension to work more properly. No my comments where directed at the suspension being stiffer as on bumpy surfaces it makes cars twitchy, not the kind of thing to fill you full of confidence.

The GTR has also had similar remarks voiced in it's direction, saying that it's suspension don't follow over the surface as well as the 997tt. Maybe these new revisions are readdressing this and improving how the GTR rides.

:thumb: Just checking that we were reading from the same page. It's true enough, stiff suspensions are not good for bumpy courses, which is why the 'ring is such a great development ground for road cars.

[7:53 RS6]

Of course I agree on a to stiff chassi will stop many from pushing hard on the ring. But as i mentioned there are always the guys with slightly more hair on their chest than others. These guys take air alot in stiff chassis on the ring and its not stopping them from lowest laptimes. I think we all speek the same here after all but with diffrent words. There are plenty of exampels of how CSL owners change therir stock chassi to somthing low and stiff, now they hardly dare to drive the ring and blame oh my chassi is not set up right. The stock chassi of the CSL is so absolutly superb and fluidly, it just swalow the ring gently. BMW M do ap 10.000km on the ring in a develop car, all things must be 100% on this hard and fast trip.

old info from "BMW"
Most people regard the
Nordschleife as a race track, but the manufacturers
use the unique layout of the
track here as a test circuit. Lap times are
rarely of interest. What we do here is put
the components through their paces.”
Since the circuit simulates the aging
process of cars in fast motion, the engineers
speak of the fast-motion factor of
the Nordschleife: “Wear and tear of vehicle
components is very much higher on
the Nordschleife than in normal road traffic.
This enables us to gather a large amount
of data and information within a
short time,” says Warthofer. “The variations
of the track could have been designed
especially with the industry’s needs in
mind: high suspension rebound rates,
hard braking manoeuvres, top speed,
uphill and downhill stretches, angled position
at Karussell. It has everything.”

What is the
role of the Test
Centre at the
Nürburgring in
testing vehicles
of the BMW M
GmbH?
Prommesberger:
The Test
Centre has a
very important
role to play because
it provides us with a link
between our development operations
in Munich and the Nordschleife.
Our engineers and test
drivers can work professionally
on the prototypes and standard
models here – they have a ‘home’
close to the test circuit.
?: Are good lap times on the
Nordschleife one of the M Gmb-
H’s official development objectives?
Prommesberger: Good lap times
on the famous Nordschleife
are important to us because to
get a good lap time requires an
appropriately designed and very
sporty car. The Nürburgring provides
all the factors relevant to
regular road traffic but in fastmotion
– stress levels might be
anything from 8 to 30 times higher
than on normal roads, depending
on the particular component.
Every BMW has to pass this
test!
?: With the M3 CSL, M GmbH presents
a purebred sports car. How
important was the Nordschleife
testing in this case?
Prommesberger: For our
sportiest M3 model, the Nordschleife
testing was absolutely
crucial: this car was virtually
‘born’ here – like all M vehicles. In
order to reliably test all road situations,
especially longitudinal
and transverse dynamics, the
Nürburgring is a must for BMW
M models – especially the M3 CSL.
Anyone who has ever driven this
fascinating sports car will know
what we mean.

[Rutkowsky]

:jlol: Nice thread!

[Z07]

Here is some information regarding the lap:

http://www.drivers-republic.com/news/news_article_14_05_08.cfm


It's old news that the Nissan GTR is rewriting the rules on what's possible for a relatively affordable and everyday usable super-coupe and that it recently lapped the Nordschliefe in 7:29 - setting a new benchmark for fully homologated production cars. But meeting the man who set the time, Tochio Suzuki, and the man in control of the car's development from the ground up, Kazutoshi Mizuno, is a great opportunity to witness first hand just how obsessive Nissan are about the GTR. And how proud they are that it has undoubtedly set new standards for everyone else to be judged against. Grabbing a couple of laps of Estoril with Suzuki is pretty revealing, too...

First up that Nurburgring lap. The target for the GTR was always 7:30 - and it had to be achieved in a fully representative 'customer-spec' car. Mizuno is quite clear on this: 'This time was set on a totally standard car, just like a customer will get. For us 'Time Attack' must be repeatable in a customer car. No special brake pads or cut-slick tyres - everything was standard GTR.' The time, set on April 8th, was achieved on the Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST tyre that is standard on the basic GTR (i.e. non Premium or 'Black' spec, which both have Bridgestone RE070R tyres). The Dunlop is a little noisier and not quite as good in the wet as the RE070R, but in the dry it's worth 4-5 seconds around the 'Ring. Incredibly all the tests of the GTR in the UK so far have been on the slower Bridgestone - and yet it has consistently set faster lap times than cars like the GT3.

Suzuki is quietly spoken and although he doesn't like to conduct interviews in English he's eloquent when talking about the lap. 'The conditions were perfect. I don't think the car could go faster. Its main strength is stability - on the brakes and in the corners. And the tyres are very consistent.' Is there a scary part of the circuit? - a key section to getting a good time but also the bit you don't look forward to? 'No. The lap was optimum but the car is predictable and easy to drive on the limit.'

The data trace that Mizuno is proud to take me through suggests that Suzuki is being ridiculously modest. The peak lateral G figure is 1.4 - and the car averages 1.3G from corner to corner. The GTR hits 290kph twice on its way to that lap time. The throttle position graph tells of total commitment (TPOS on the graph). Lapping a 1740kg road car in 7:29 is simply a phenomenal achievement.

[Leadfoot]

That is an incredible speed the GTR reached on TWO occasions, 290km/h (181.25mph) is the sort of speed I would expect the R8v10 to reach but somehow doubt it will. Plus a 1.4g lateral grip figure is also incredible.

This really is one amazing car which is all the more amazing because of it's asking price.

[KresoF1]

That is an incredible speed the GTR reached on TWO occasions, 290km/h (181.25mph) is the sort of speed I would expect the R8v10 to reach but somehow doubt it will. Plus a 1.4g lateral grip figure is also incredible.

This really is one amazing car which is all the more amazing because of it's asking price.

This is the real problem. It is almost impossible to hit 290km/h TWICE on the Ring on single lap.
There are two places were you can go above 260km/h in capable car: Schwedenkreuz and Doettinger Hoehe...

Just for comparison data from 997 GT2 Ring lap by Sport Auto(Horst von Saurma):

Schwedenkreuz 266km/h(top speed just before brake point)
Doettinnger Hoehe 293km/h(top speed)

Two achieve more then 290km/h TWICE on single lap on the Ring means in real world that car must have way more then 550hp...

[Leadfoot]

This is the real problem. It is almost impossible to hit 290km/h TWICE on the Ring on single lap.
There are two places were you can go above 260km/h in capable car: Schwedenkreuz and Doettinger Hoehe...

Just for comparison data from 997 GT2 Ring lap by Sport Auto(Horst von Saurma):

Schwedenkreuz 266km/h(top speed just before brake point)
Doettinnger Hoehe 293km/h(top speed)

Two achieve more then 290km/h TWICE on single lap on the Ring means in real world that car must have way more then 550hp...

I understand your skepticism but here is the evidence of the lap in black and white so to speak.

http://www.drivers-republic.com/images/photos/full_images/nissan_gtr/_DS37782S.jpg

[KresoF1]

...better read latest comment by Steve Sutcliffe.
He is a BIG sceptic as I am.

[Leadfoot]

...better read latest comment by Steve Sutcliffe.
He is a BIG sceptic as I am.

Steve's not a bad spud. Just wished he was a better driver. ;) (jk)

[RXBG]

the R8 V8 has a top speed of 187. i expect the V10 to top out at plus 200.

i assume you meant in the top speed in that particular portion of the ring.

[Jani]

I understand your skepticism but here is the evidence of the lap in black and white so to speak
Skepticism is good. Look at the difference of acceleration curve in first 290 peak and at the second.

The first one is a measurement error due to speed data, there is no way the car accelerated like that from 260 -> 290. Are you sure the speed is not wheel speed, maybe the throttle was to the floor and it jumped in Schwedenkreutz bump....

It does not take away from the time. I'm sure GTR is so fast due to easy handling, that is good at the Ring, enabling pushing at the limit. 4wd rules :)

[Leadfoot]

Skepticism is good. Look at the difference of acceleration curve in first 290 peak and at the second.

The first one is a measurement error due to speed data, there is no way the car accelerated like that from 260 -> 290. Are you sure the speed is not wheel speed, maybe the throttle was to the floor and it jumped in Schwedenkreutz bump....

It does not take away from the time. I'm sure GTR is so fast due to easy handling, that is good at the Ring, enabling pushing at the limit. 4wd rules :)

I was going to say about that but chose to leave is out. Wish I had now before it makes me sound like I missed this which wasn't the case, though you are right in saying that even if this was indeed a error there is no taking away from the actually time it achieve with a so called stock car.

[Benman]

The first one is a measurement error due to speed data, there is no way the car accelerated like that from 260 -> 290. Are you sure the speed is not wheel speed, maybe the throttle was to the floor and it jumped in Schwedenkreutz bump....



Good spot. :thumb: Still, like you state, incredible time though.

Ben:addict:

[Z07]

Skepticism is good. Look at the difference of acceleration curve in first 290 peak and at the second.

The first one is a measurement error due to speed data, there is no way the car accelerated like that from 260 -> 290. Are you sure the speed is not wheel speed, maybe the throttle was to the floor and it jumped in Schwedenkreutz bump....

It does not take away from the time. I'm sure GTR is so fast due to easy handling, that is good at the Ring, enabling pushing at the limit. 4wd rules :)
I agree. Looks like it jumped the crest before the fast dowhill lefthander if my guess as to the location is correct.

I think I'm even more impressed that it hit air at about 270kph and then braked down for the corner.:hihi:

[7:53 RS6]

Peopel have wounderd how the CSL accived its laptime, well its not that powerfull but its many bends tru the green hell. The CSL is at the absolute top of Sport Autos list when it come to pull high G. It pull 1.4G in the sport auto superstest puting it right at the top with Zonda. Now BMW have pulled even higher G in the CSL.
Anyway, not that stange this Datsun GT-R is a GO fast car. The porky thing pull as high G as CSL, then ad power, as well the Datsun seems to bring out the best of peopel on track.
As I sad all along. I have no problems seeing the Datsun GT-R at 7.30min on the 20.6km lap.

Well done Datsun Vitara GT-R:revs:

[Z07]

Peopel have wounderd how the CSL accived its laptime, well its not that powerfull but its many bends tru the green hell. The CSL is at the absolute top of Sport Autos list when it come to pull high G. It pull 1.4G in the sport auto superstest puting it right at the top with Zonda. Now BMW have pulled even higher G in the CSL.
Anyway, not that stange this Datsun GT-R is a GO fast car. The porky thing pull as high G as CSL, then ad power, as well the Datsun seems to bring out the best of peopel on track.
As I sad all along. I have no problems seeing the Datsun GT-R at 7.30min on the 20.6km lap.

Well done Datsun Vitara GT-R:revs:
Funny you should mention 'Vitara'. The Pikes Peak Escudo was based on a Suzuki Escudo/Vitara.:)

[Leadfoot]

The trick is combining the high lateral G will a forgiving chassis, the CSL clearly had it and be the looks of it so does the GTR.

What more impressive is that Nissan has managed to do what BMW did for a whole £10K less and yet give you more power/torque and a much better gearbox as well. And all of this in a time when inflation should have made it cost a lot more.

Well done Nissan.















P.S.
Though I still wouldn't buy one.

[HKS786]

Why not? just interested :D

[Benman]

I think now that Leadie has Audis in the stable, he sees getting a Nissan as a "step down". Me, it doesn't matter.

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Why not? just interested :D


I think now that Leadie has Audis in the stable, he sees getting a Nissan as a "step down". Me, it doesn't matter.

Ben:addict:

Well, the interior design as I have already said looks disjointed to me for a start. The exterior is growing on me but not enough to say that I could live with, unless I walked blindfolded up to the car every morning and never looked back at the end of every night.

No to me there is more to a car than being amazingly quicker or pure entertaining to drive, they need to meet a happy balance of things, providing enough entertainment to be interesting, enough speed to impress, enough comfort to enjoy every journey and enough practicality and logic to make the decision of the purchase viable to the wife.

In all of these the Audi meets all of my needs and I somehow doubt that the big Nissan can tick all of those boxes. In fact the only other car which has come close to this was either the new C63 or the M3 but I know when winter came the argument for the big Audi would win the day.

Viva Quattro. :dig:

[Benman]

In fact the only other car which has come close to this was either the new C63 or the M3 but...

To even mention those cars shows in truth you care little for quality interiors... ;) :D The Nissan owns them in interior quality. :applause:

Ben:addict:

[Z07]

You don't look at the mantlepiece when you're poking the fire.

[Leadfoot]

To even mention those cars shows in truth you care little for quality interiors... ;) :D The Nissan owns them in interior quality. :applause:

Ben:addict:

Can't agree Ben,

Both the BM and the Merc have interiors which are coherent and logically designed, the Nissan doesn't, it design is all over the place. Sure the quality is top notch and everything will work for a million years but it's not a pleasant looking interior.

[Leadfoot]

You don't look at the mantlepiece when you're poking the fire.

That's fine for a one night stand but not really acceptable for a meaningful relationship. :hihi:

[Benman]

You don't look at the mantlepiece when you're poking the fire.
I do... it's soooooo sexy. ;)

Ben:addict:

[Z07]

I do... it's soooooo sexy. ;)

Ben:addict:
God, I hope you're not still talking about cars now.

[Benman]

God, I hope you're not still talking about cars now.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Ok, back to cars now. :D

Ben:addict:

[Z07]

Video of 7:29 lap

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=WLdaLV66XOc

[Leadfoot]

How close do we feel that Horst (SportAuto) will get to that incredible time of 7:29. I guess within 10seconds at best because that looked one mighty committed lap from someone who not only knows that course (which Horst also knows probably as well) but also knows everything there is to know about the behaviour of the car (Which Horst doesn't know). So I reckon anything less than 10seconds will be impressive.

Now where does that leave the R8v10? ;)

[Clio16V]

Another nice movie of the Skyline: http://www.gametribes.tv/?Episode=675

[KresoF1]

How close do we feel that Horst (SportAuto) will get to that incredible time of 7:29. I guess within 10seconds at best because that looked one mighty committed lap from someone who not only knows that course (which Horst also knows probably as well) but also knows everything there is to know about the behaviour of the car (Which Horst doesn't know). So I reckon anything less than 10seconds will be impressive.

Now where does that leave the R8v10? ;)

About R8 V10 read my respone in R8 video comparions thread...

GT-R is car with hardest suspension at the market. For example much harder then Ferrari 430 Scuderia(7.39min Ring time as you will see in next issue of Sport Auto) for example. Its DSG is also very rude in R mode(surge a la S5/S6 modes on BMW M3s M-DKG). My friend who attended Estoril EU intro for GT-R said to me:" fast as hell? Of course! Involving drivers car? NO! Would I buy one? NO."

He owns 997 GT3 and Audi S3...

[Leadfoot]

About R8 V10 read my respone in R8 video comparions thread...

GT-R is car with hardest suspension at the market. For example much harder then Ferrari 430 Scuderia(7.39min Ring time as you will see in next issue of Sport Auto) for example. Its DSG is also very rude in R mode(surge a la S5/S6 modes on BMW M3s M-DKG). My friend who attended Estoril EU intro for GT-R said to me:" fast as hell? Of course! Involving drivers car? NO! Would I buy one? NO."

He owns 997 GT3 and Audi S3...

If someone with a GT3 classes the GTR as uninvolving then I think in the next couple of years you will find a lot of unhappy GTR owners and an increasing number of cars in the classifieds.

P.S.
This is the first time I have heard the GTR's dual clutch memtioned to be likened to the M3's most extreme modes. I have read a lot of reviews on the beast and never has anyone classed it that extreme, sure it's not as smooth as S/Tronic but neither has it be regarded as ruff as the M3.

Is it possible that Nissan also changed these setting as well as the rest of the revisions.

[KresoF1]

Interesting read...


http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/97613-gt-r-vs-audi-rs4-real-world-experience.html

But an RS4 is more stable under hard braking on dirty backroads.....

GT-R vs Audi RS4 real world experience

Did a drive to Narusawa Golf Club yesterday in Fuji with my mate in his 07 RS4.

We did a few little tests like acceleration through the gears, off the line, handling etc. I've noticed that the GT-R really pitches a lot on unsmooth highway bends. This is to do with the suspension tuning. Even in R mode it still pitched around a lot and felt a little unstable. I think Eibach progressive springs would probably solve this problem. My mate said he could see the car was bobbing around a fair bit, did not look "hunkered down". So, need better springs.

No problems with acceleration whatsoever, he was completely blown away and very depressed.

Heavy braking into a very slow slightly dirty corner caused all sorts of problems. Car started sliding and I had all manner of lights flashing at me. This is not completely a problem with the GT-R, more likely the dirty surface BUT the runflats are not too good when they're really hot and I had been cooking them. Also the brakes did not seem to be able to cope with the sheer weight of the car. I'm more and more convinced after this and the track session at Fuji that I need to put Pagid Yellows on the car. I'd also like some decent R rubber on the car but that's not going to happen unless I change the wheels so will not happen. Will change the pads and see where that takes me. I did manage to correct the car but my passenger said he'd have lost it into the barrier and was not sure how I managed to keep it under control. I'm also hoping the spring upgrade will help with the braking too.

This leads me to the crashed R35s that we've been seeing. This is a super heavy, stupidly fast car with a lot of electronics. What it can do is make an average driver do some pretty spectacular stuff. What is CANNOT do is teach an average driver how to defy the laws of physics. I can now fully understand how people have crashed the car under braking on public roads. It's just too much car to be driven all out. The back really wanted to be in front when I stomped on the brakes. On the circuit though I had no such problems because it was so the surface is so smooth and so clean.

My mate had no such problems in his RS4. Car was very stable under braking.

This car should be treated with loads of respect. Don't get in it and think you can be a racing driver because of all the electronics. Most of the reviews have taken place on closed circuits in controlled environments. On the public road though this can be a very different beast. It's heavy, long and powerful. Taming it under braking will require some very good driving.

So, beware. Quite a few have been smashed up now and I think all of them were under braking if you look at the pictures. I have not seen any side on impacts yet.

[Z07]

If someone with a GT3 classes the GTR as uninvolving then I think in 10 years, they will cost less than £10k and people like Z07 will be driving them.


I can only hope this is true Leadfoot.;) :applause:

[Z07]

Hi-res video with sound.

http://www.youtube.com/v/UBZ5i15yVU8

[KresoF1]

http://i27.tinypic.com/2w3n71x.jpg

My comment? ALL parts in GT-R are apparently at upper limit...

[Leadfoot]

Changing gearbox and engine oils every 3000miles when driven hard. :bigeyes:

How does that compare to other dual clutch gearboxes? It sounds excessive to me.

[KresoF1]

Changing gearbox and engine oils every 3000miles when driven hard. :bigeyes:

How does that compare to other dual clutch gearboxes? It sounds excessive to me.

NOT 3000mls BUT 3000kms!!

M-DKG? Service every 20000kms... PDK? Every 20000kms...

[Z07]

Same as any GTR. I change mine every 6,000 miles (just less than 10,000km). The confusion lies in the terminology. 'Normal driving' can mean hard street driving but not flat-out track driving.