TT/RS will be the one to watch.

[Leadfoot]

Hi guys,

I just received info (very basic) concerning the TT/RS and lets say that it will be the one to have out of the entire line of RS models if you are serious about the driving.

This includes the RS6, RS4 and R8, the words 'out perform everything else' seems possibly to include even the RS5. According to my source Porsche were so impressed that the Cayman Turbo has been given the green light.

Great news for us, bad news for any potential 997 customers. :hihi:

P.S.

Don't expect this to be TT cheap, this will be one serious little trackday tool and will be priced accordingly, does that mean it will approach the £50K mark, I hope not but I reckon something just below the £45K mark is a possibility.

[Jani]

When is this due to be shown / to be in the market?

[HKS786]

Hi guys,

I just received info (very basic) concerning the TT/RS and lets say that it will be the one to have out of the entire line of RS models if you are serious about the driving.

This includes the RS6, RS4 and R8, the words 'out perform everything else' seems possibly to include even the RS5. According to my source Porsche were so impressed that the Cayman Turbo has been given the green light.

Great news for us, bad news for any potential 997 customers. :hihi:

P.S.

Don't expect this to be TT cheap, this will be one serious little trackday tool and will be priced accordingly, does that mean it will approach the £50K mark, I hope not but I reckon something just below the £45K mark is a possibility.

WOW. Great news. Also, I can back this up with news from a few days ago!

Look:

The omnipresent Jalopniks have tipped us off to some interesting spy photos which were taken by BridgeToGantry.com (http://bridgetogantry.com/), a site dedicated to all things about the Nürburgring Nordschleife.

Wearing Ludwigsburg license plates, which indicates an official Porsche AG car, BTG spotted this Porsche Cayman doing some hot laps. What was interesting was not it's appearance but rather its sound. BTG photographer gives an account of hearing the distinct sound of a turbo engine as this Cayman flew past.

BTG states they have seen a similar Cayman prototype making the same noise a year ago, but it's back. A turbo charged Cayman making somewhere in the neighborhood of 340hp would be a serious threat and outperform its older sibling, the 911. Known for being lean and well balanced, a Cayman Turbo would absolutely cannibalize 911 sales and Porsche knows it. According to BTG, privateer teams last year who were using the Cayman were suddenly upgraded to, “money-can't-buy factory-backed RSR 911s.”

http://images.worldcarfans.com/2008/4/18/9080418.005/9080418.005.1M.jpg

[Leadfoot]

Guys,

Can't confirm date for definite but I believe this will be later half of 2009.

Based of what I have been told I think the belief that Audi aren't going to give the TT/RS anything more than 310hp is totally out the window, for this to 'out perform the rest of the line (RS)' I think closer to 350hp must be a sure thing.

The interesting think that has got my mind working over time is what sort of lap time is it capable of on tracks like Bedford and Hockenheim, I doubt it's ring time will approach the M3's 8:05 but you never know. ;)

When more info is relayed to me you guys will be the first to know. :thumb:

[+44 Dave]

Good to hear cause lets face it the TT S isn't really that much of a step up. Will look forward to hearing more about the TT RS.

[ZeroCool]

i won't say anything - just a :D

[RXBG]

i presume an I5 TFSI with 350 hp. too much of a gem to keep for one model. i'd assume it would go into the S4/S5.

i can't see it being faster than the R8 UNLESS they really go all out and save major weight on the front of the car and put the battery in the back AND give it a DSG.

with a regular manual tranny i can see it pulling real life magazine 0-60 times of about 4.7 seconds. the TTS still weighs about as much as an R8, remember that.

i'd venture porsche wasn't able to can this fish because it was too far along in development so they decided to put a little turbo in the cayman.

it'll be an interesting little car. can't wait to see it.

[Leadfoot]

RXBG,

Sorry to pick you up on some factual errors but the TT/S doesn't weigh as much as the R8. The TT/S weighs in at 1415Kgs compared to the R8 at 1560Kgs.

If the TT/RS matches the TT/S weight of 1415Kgs but offers 350hp that will mean on power to weight the TT/RS will be every bit the match of the R8 and on the gearbox front, yes it will have DSG as standard I believe.

I am dieing to hear what juicy specs the TT/RS will bring with it.

[Rage]

This all sounds very exciting. I hope the TTRS delivers as hoped for. I test drove a Carrera S today and the steering/road feel was extraordinary. Much better then anything ive experienced with the Current TTV6/SLK/M3. I really hope the TTRS can deliver on this front too.

[RXBG]

good news then. though i suspect the TT RS will probably weigh in a bit more than the TT S given the larger engine and beefed up suspension. of course, if audi can increase the use of alum in the body this might offset things. from what i understand, however, the TTS is about alum intensive as the body can get. the steel/alum hybrid chassis on the base TT is not much different than the TTS's. and the core frame requires steel in order to maintain rigidity.

[Rage]

According to my source Porsche were so impressed that the Cayman Turbo has been given the green light.

Great news for us, bad news for any potential 997 customers. :hihi:

Even with their share in VW..Does porsche really know that much about the TTRS? Should they?

I hope the Cayman Turbo is a definate GO. That car with more punch would be really very impressive. More for the TTRS to compete with.

[The Pretender]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the TT-R will most likely not have transverse DSG/S-tronic, because it still can handle torque over 350 Nm.
That's why the TT-S have a torque limit of 350 Nm and the Passat R36 a 350 Nm torque limiter while shifting gears.
Audi could do the same with the TT-R but i doubt it they will.
There are two opptions: one the TT-R will not have DSG/S-Tronic or: two Audi develop a new transverse S-Tronic that can handle more torque.

btw, the new 2.3 TFSI five cylinder engine can allready handle 380 hp without any problem's.

Jarod.

[ZeroCool]

i think AUDI saw that the DSG is the right way forward ;)
So it could also be possible - that they're developing a new Version of transverse-S-Tronic ;)

[KresoF1]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the TT-R will most likely not have transverse DSG/S-tronic, because it still can handle torque over 350 Nm.
That's why the TT-S have a torque limit of 350 Nm and the Passat R36 a 350 Nm torque limiter while shifting gears.
Audi could do the same with the TT-R but i doubt it they will.
There are two opptions: one the TT-R will not have DSG/S-Tronic or: two Audi develop a new transverse S-Tronic that can handle more torque.

btw, the new 2.3 TFSI five cylinder engine can allready handle 380 hp without any problem's.

Jarod.

Fully agree with you.

Future TT-R giving problem to facelifted 997 Carrera/Carrera S models that will be introduced next month? I truly do not think so...

Better to say that this facelifted 997s will give some serious problems to current R8... Few facts about facelifted 997s:

-Carrera 3.6L DFI 345hp
-Carrera S 3.8L DFI 385hp
-PDK(a la DSG) with 7 gears optional for both models
-acceleration for Carrera S with PDK, 0-100km/h in 4.5s, 0-200km/h in 14.5s, that's faster then current R8
-new improved suspension(PASM), they claim 5s better Ring time-that means again faster then R8
-HD based Navi system

According to my source new 997 was intended to be faster in any situation then R8 in its Carrera S form. Porsche deliberately did that. Now, we have to ask ourself-what is the future of R8?
Not to talk about fact that facelifted 997 GT3, GT3RS, Turbo and GT2 models are coming as well. All much improved with DFI engines and new suspension tune...

Bact OT... TT-R? We will see. BUT, judging from TT-S Ring time(Audi unofficial claim) I do not expect too much...
And 5R engine is way more heavy then 4R. Yes, 5 pot soundtrack is very nice...

[Leadfoot]

Fully agree with you.

Future TT-R giving problem to facelifted 997 Carrera/Carrera S models that will be introduced next month? I truly do not think so...

Better to say that this facelifted 997s will give some serious problems to current R8... Few facts about facelifted 997s:

-Carrera 3.6L DFI 345hp
-Carrera S 3.8L DFI 385hp
-PDK(a la DSG) with 7 gears optional for both models
-acceleration for Carrera S with PDK, 0-100km/h in 4.5s, 0-200km/h in 14.5s, that's faster then current R8
-new improved suspension(PASM), they claim 5s better Ring time-that means again faster then R8
-HD based Navi system

According to my source new 997 was intended to be faster in any situation then R8 in its Carrera S form. Porsche deliberately did that. Now, we have to ask ourself-what is the future of R8?
Not to talk about fact that facelifted 997 GT3, GT3RS, Turbo and GT2 models are coming as well. All much improved with DFI engines and new suspension tune...

Bact OT... TT-R? We will see. BUT, judging from TT-S Ring time(Audi unofficial claim) I do not expect too much...
And 5R engine is way more heavy then 4R. Yes, 5 pot soundtrack is very nice...

I too expect the R8 to be one of the fallers in the combining of brands (Porsche and VAG) but prior to the fazing out we will see something very special before this happens. I might add I hope Porsche see sense and dump the 911 instead of dumping the R8 as this old bird has out lived it's usefulness.

Back to the TT/RS, as per usual you are playing down Audi's models, first the RS6 which you said wouldn't be quicker than the M5 and yet it has been the case on every occasion so far. Now the TT/S and TT/RS are getting the dig, prior to any reviews of the products, firstly the TT/S, tell me what are you expecting from this model in terms of time at the ring? Frankly anything close to 10s slower than the 335/S5 times would be amazing from what is much less powerful car. I will be more interesting in it's Hockenheim time as horsepower is less of an issue here.

This obsession with times and acceleration only give bragging rights down at the pub, you highlight the R8's apparent slowness and yet on almost every track (minus the ring) it's quicker than all of it's priers, proving that in fact it's an exception handling car which masks it's lack of power and weight in a package which is more user friendly then about every other supercar in it's track-time bracket.

You sources seem to be playing down the TT/RS where as mine is doing the opposite, only time will tell which will be correct. I have faith knowing full well where the info is coming from. :hahahehe:

Now can you say the same. ;)

[KresoF1]

Leadie,

I just responded to your claim that 997(specially facefilted models) should watch out for TT-RS... Your claim was not very serious IMHO...

Regarding my source(you questioned it...) it is as reliable as possible(person works for quattro Gmbh in Neckarsulm-just that much...)... In fact he reads this forum few times a month and he told me:"...that some info fro deepthroats about future Audi models is truly funny. I mean NOT accurate at all." BTW, he also told me that most info from Pretender here is very accurate...

Regarding R8... I still love that car very much(and am waiting one myself), just look at owners reports on some other R8 dedicated forums... Opinions are not black or white... More greyish in average...
My good friend from UK had a tons of problems with his R8. In the end he said in his recent phonecall that R8 is the last Audi that he bought...

Also your opinion on one M3 forum is somehow different then Audi enthusiasm that you present here on rs6.com... Do not get me wrong, I respect your opinion but, sometimes(or most of the times) you do not respect other people's opinion...

Also IMHO we are waisting way too much time here on future or upcoming models. Discussion or personal experience(drive impressions etc.) about current Audi models are always a welcome thing...

Oh... Last thing-RS6 Avant was tested by Auto Bild Sportscar edition against M5 Touring, Alpina B5S Touring and E63T... RS6 was the fastest one(0-200km/h in 14.1s... You are happy with that result I can get on it...)... Just despite fastes track time also on Oschersleben achived track time was nothing special... Almost the same result as S3... BTW, unofficial Audi Ring time for RS6 Avant is 8.11min with P Zeros...

[Leadfoot]

I think the credibility of my source goes without question, the info I have passed to this site has been on the whole very accurate indeed.

The TT/RS WILL be something very special and it's note will hark back to the past, if you get my drift.

Remember how long along I informed of the S4 running a SC unit and that the TT/S would also be running a 4cyl engine against the amount of people stating it would be a 3.6L v6. My info on the RS6 was 100% accurate on which model would be launched first and why, plus all of the other info provided.

My problem with some of your comments is the negativity which is directed at the products and usually before they have even been tested, in a way you give the impression of trying to put people off them.

[KresoF1]

My problem with some of your comments is the negativity which is directed at the products and usually before they have even been tested, in a way you give the impression of trying to put people off them.

NO, I am just giving people good sign of warning... Why? Little bit too high expectations...

Do you remember most rumors here about RS6 weight? Nobody(expect you, me and maybe only two other members) was thinking about more then 2000kgs... Everybody claimed that RS6 Avant will be max. 1900kgs... We now know the real figures...

My problem with your current Audi enthusiasm is that your present almost every new Audi model(or forthcoming one) as a "Holy Cow"...

I like Audis as well, but all Audi models are not the best cars in all segments... That is my personal opinion...

[HKS786]

I think the credibility of my source goes without question, the info I have passed to this site has been on the whole very accurate indeed.

The TT/RS WILL be something very special and it's note will hark back to the past, if you get my drift.

Remember how long along I informed of the S4 running a SC unit and that the TT/S would also be running a 4cyl engine against the amount of people stating it would be a 3.6L v6. My info on the RS6 was 100% accurate on which model would be launched first and why, plus all of the other info provided.

My problem with some of your comments is the negativity which is directed at the products and usually before they have even been tested, in a way you give the impression of trying to put people off them.

+1

I tend to trust Leadie in most things. Regarding future models, he's always given good info on it like he outlined above. Regarding general opinions, he is unbiased. He has praised the M3 as it deserves to be, even though he owns an S5.

[HKS786]

NO, I am just giving people good sign of warning... Why? Little bit too high expectations...

Do you remember most rumors here about RS6 weight? Nobody(expect you, me and maybe only two other members) was thinking about more then 2000kgs... Everybody claimed that RS6 Avant will be max. 1900kgs... We now know the real figures...

My problem with your current Audi enthusiasm is that your present almost every new Audi model(or forthcoming one) as a "Holy Cow"...

I like Audis as well, but all Audi models are not the best cars in all segments... That is my personal opinion...

Hmm. I'm not sure I agree. Yeah Leadie does seem positive about Audi these days, but why not? Audi have delivered very well with the new A4 and A5. The R8 is def a success. RS6 is great too. RS4 is brilliant. Now Audi are entering new markets with the A1 for example. They are also extending the R8 lineup.

I'm very pleased with their lineup and direction. Their designs are very good even though there are things I would DEF change about them...

I do remember when Audi released the Cross Cabrio Concept to preview the Q5 Leadie did comment that it was pointless as many of us did say. He has also given fair comments on the M3 as I already mentioned.

Let's not argue about it, time will tell what happens with Audi's future models ;)

[Leadfoot]

NO, I am just giving people good sign of warning... Why? Little bit too high expectations...

Do you remember most rumors here about RS6 weight? Nobody(expect you, me and maybe only two other members) was thinking about more then 2000kgs... Everybody claimed that RS6 Avant will be max. 1900kgs... We now know the real figures...

By the way, my estimates were right on the button on this. :D

And I don't actually have a problem with the RS6's weight, after all it isn't something one should intend to take to the track, Audi know this and designed a car to suit the purpose it was intended for. It's a shame that BMW didn't see sense and design the M5 likewise because in trying to make it a focused driver's car they compromised the overall design. It's my opinion but it's one shared by quite a few of the motoring press.


My problem with your current Audi enthusiasm is that your present almost every new Audi model(or forthcoming one) as a "Holy Cow"...

I like Audis as well, but all Audi models are not the best cars in all segments... That is my personal opinion...

If someone reads into things wrong then silly them, would I class the TT/S as the best in class then the answer will be yes. It what you reckon is it's competitors which determine that, I see the Z350, SLK and Z4 as it's rivals and only the Nissan is as capable but like the R8's competitors the TT/S hasn't compromised it's practically to match the others performance.

This is the difference between Audi's thinking and BMW. BMW try to achieve the unobtainable and try to make a sportscar out of a saloon or a supercar out of a coupe, Audi choose to offer the same perform but understand that most people don't want to track their cars and so design them to work best on the road.

Like I said our opinions on the TT/RS are different, I am expecting from the info I have been provided that it will be very special among the Audi range, where as you believe it won't and this is based on what you are expecting from the TT/S.

[Rage]

Few facts about facelifted 997s:

-Carrera 3.6L DFI 345hp
-Carrera S 3.8L DFI 385hp
-PDK(a la DSG) with 7 gears optional for both models
-acceleration for Carrera S with PDK, 0-100km/h in 4.5s, 0-200km/h in 14.5s, that's faster then current R8
-new improved suspension(PASM), they claim 5s better Ring time-that means again faster then R8
-HD based Navi system

According to my source new 997 was intended to be faster in any situation then R8 in its Carrera S form.

Do you mean to say that the FL 997 will be just as quick as the current 997S?

Also do you know when the FL for the Cayman is due? When will it get DFI and PDK? Are we to expect a more powerful cayman?

thx

[LU-RS6]

Don't should me for saying this, but the only reason why I am not interested in the whole hassle around TT/S TT/RS is that I really do not like the exterior of the car. It ruins all the rest of fun for me.

I didn't like the previous TT, I don't like this one. I don't think I'll ever like it to be frank.

[KresoF1]

Regarding your observation about BMW and Audi(current model line) I agree in most... Just X5 and new X6(I hate the way it looks) are better cars then Q7(looks like a school bus IMO). M3 is the best BMWs current car IMHO and without competiton from Audi at the moment. M-DKG(M-DCT) is better gearbox then any current DSG or S-Tronic. Gustav video's are actually a clear sign how good M-DKG is... New Q5 is way better then X3(or new GLK). A4 and A5 are better then 3 series.
RS6 Avant? Clearly(I admit) fastest car in the class...
R8? Well, here is something I need to work with since I order one.... New 997 facelift will be a better car... I know full specs and Porsche did it again... They are Porsche after all...
TT or TTS is not bad car but, I still do not like the way it looks. BUT, I hate Z4...

In the end Audi range is clearly better then BMWs at the moment, of course IMHO...

[KresoF1]

Do you mean to say that the FL 997 will be just as quick as the current 997S?

Also do you know when the FL for the Cayman is due? When will it get DFI and PDK? Are we to expect a more powerful cayman?

thx

In short-yes. You will be amazed how good new FL 997 series is...

Cayman FL-March 2009. DFI engine and PDK. Updated PASM. Maybe even Cayman RS...

[RXBG]

guys,

i think you both present good points. but we all need to agree to allow some leeway in our interpretation of the information we get from our sources. this is by far the most well informed english audi site that exists. it is not about who is right. it is about sharing information, comparing notes, and having exciting, thought-provoking discussion. :cheers:

this is the first time i hear about this major update to the 997. intellectually, though, i cannot see how porsche could pull the kind of magic it needs to outperform the R8 with the 997 S. i can see it it getting closer (essentially the X51 pack is now standard) in acceleration given the lighter weight, but i'd like to see how a non carrera 4 S can outhandle the R8. even the C4S would need some real magic since it currently takes a stripped down version without awd (AKA GT3) to match the R8's handling. also, these updates will surely jack up the price of the 997.

i can see that porsche would go all out to update its bread and butter automobile. i mean, it is the very foundation of the company. i am sure they were freaking out when the R8 came out. so much so that they actually took over audi's parent company :hihi: but it would take an almost complete redesign and repositioning of the engine to a more, ahem, logical place in order to accomplish this.

i can't wait till september. i'm sure audi has hot plans for the V10 and i can't wait to see its specs.

:R8kiss:

[Leadfoot]

In short-yes. You will be amazed how good new FL 997 series is...

Cayman FL-March 2009. DFI engine and PDK. Updated PASM. Maybe even Cayman RS...

The Cayman Turbo has got the green light so it's coming. The only thing I don't know as yet is the when.

Not sure but I think the S/Tronic going into the Q5 is very similar to the PDK unit going into the 997FL, both are believed to cope with 550Nm.

[Rage]

In short-yes. You will be amazed how good new FL 997 series is...

Cayman FL-March 2009. DFI engine and PDK. Updated PASM. Maybe even Cayman RS...

I was under the impression that the Cayman FL is due this summer? it would make sense that the FL and DFI/PDK all come together.

[RXBG]

what do DFI and FL mean?

[Leadfoot]

what do DFI and FL mean?

DFI = Direct Fuel Injection and FL = Face Lift model. :thumb:

[ZeroCool]

FL is Facelift ... DFI i also don't know...but it think it's the way Porsche calls DSG/S-Tronic

EDIT:

ok, leadie was first - and i was wrong with the DFI ;)

[Leadfoot]

FL is Facelift ... DFI i also don't know...but it think it's the way Porsche calls DSG/S-Tronic

EDIT:

ok, leadie was first - and i was wrong with the DFI ;)

PDK is Porsche's version of DSG/S-Tronic.

The Cayman I believe will increase their output by 15~20hp, thus putting the Cayman S at 315~320hp. Combine that with PDK and you will have the pick of the Porsche range until the Cayman Turbo hits the streets.

P.S.
Will still pick the TT/RS over it everytime, to hear that Audi rallycar note once more will be magical.

[RXBG]

porsche is really on the product offensive right now. with the R4 canned that leaves audi to soldier on only with the TT in that kind of a bracket. for sure the TT S is a joke. it is a car that should not have been given the S moniker. it is a car that should be the high level offering in the regular TT range.

that being said, and accepting reality, the TT-R will need a hell of an engine. if it gets it i am sure it'll be positioned right below the cayman turbo- in power and in cost. i'd venture 340 hp tops. very tops. most likely 320. and a price of about 63K USD. i'd assume the cayman turbo will produce about 350 hp tops. it can't make more than a 997.

[Leadfoot]

Who's to say you lot over there will be getting it. Sorry mate but I say we keep this little gem all to ourselves. :lovl:

Only joking. :cheers:

Depending on whether Porsche give the Cayman Turbo a LSD will determine if it's going to just be better than the 997 or walk all over it.

P.S.

$63K sound a lot, is the M3 not less than that over there?

[RXBG]

oh, i'm pretty sure we'll get it. i hear we'll be getting the RS6 sedan in limited numbers.

the TT 3.2 DSG coupe starts at almost 44K USD. i'd assume the TTS will cost about 50K. so that would put the TT-R at about 60K.

diff between an S4 and RS4 in the US is well over 10K. about 15K, in fact. if the TT-R is a true RS automobile, with all the exclusive engineering and prowess it promises, then it will command that kind of a premium over the TTS.

the M3 coupe starts at about 57K. no DSG. just a manual

[Leadfoot]

In the UK the TT3.2 S/Tronic cost £30K and the TT/S is £34K. Either BMW are ultra competitive in their US prices or Audi really need to sharpen their pencil if they want to increase their market share over there.

[KresoF1]

.

the M3 coupe starts at about 57K. no DSG. just a manual

M3 is available with M-DKG(M-DCT) in USA as well. Some people already drive that car right now in USA. Just check out various BMW forums...

[Leadfoot]

Just watched Gustav's videos on the M-DKG and you are right, their system is very impressive. It will be interesting to see a comparison when Audi new 7sp S/Tronic becomes available to see each company's take on how the technology has been taken forward from the original system.

The only problem I have is the price difference between what Audi charge for S/Tronic and BMW are charging for their equivalent.

Has any magazine tested the BMW setup yet?

[KresoF1]

No, not yet... In next issue of German AZ will be M3 Cabrio with M-DKG test. Other German mags will follow shortly... We need to check new issue of Sport Auto(this Friday) as well...

So, we will have three 7speed Double Clutch systems: Audi S-Tronic, BMW M-DKG and Porsche PDK. Ups! I forgot biggest supriese-forthcoming Ferrari F149(code name for new small front engined Ferrari) with(!!!) 7speed Double Clutch as well. Intro in Paris 2008(well, watch carefully next month...).

[Leadfoot]

It's the year of the Double Clutch. :D

It will be interesting to see if Ferrari's setup offers a similar amount of options as BMW seem to be offering, 11 modes (5 in auto and 8 in manual), that is insane. Though never to be out done I reckon Ferrari will offer their with 18 modes and call it the 'mountain bike system'. :hihi:

But honestly what's the need for all these settings, watching the video I didn't really notice much if any between mode S2 and S4, even S5 the second most sporty looked about the same. :eye:

[KresoF1]

My bet is that BMW M-DKG will be King of the Modes! BMW always makes little bit tooooo many modes....

Ferrari will offer pretty different setup AFAIK. It will depend on throttle position for shifting speed(a la current Scuderia Superfast setup). 1/4 to 2/4 throttle-smooth shift, 3/4 throttle-fast and smooth shift, full throttle-very fast and not so smooth shift. At least this is what I heard...

Porsche PDK is a current mystery since it will replace Tiptronic(no more slush box in Carreras). BUT, they claim that it will be the sportiest and smoothest gearbox on the market at the same time. We will see...

Audi S-Tronic for S5. Hopefully as good as it gets. But, lets also hope that Audi want be too late with S-Tronic intro for S5(since it will got first into new S4)...

[SigmaS6]

I think the credibility of my source goes without question, the info I have passed to this site has been on the whole very accurate indeed.
It is also in synch with the schedule and infos from the german Auto Motor und Sport magazine, which was right about other Audi releases in the past as well, so I guess ~350bhp and the release date of June 2009 should be close to reality.

I don't get your between the lines comments about it being special though, not really sure what specialty, except for the five cylinder, you could put in that car? Maybe you wanna describe the RS of your dreams a bit more concrete? :)

Concerning the price I don't think it'll be a problem, if the performance is close to a well specced Cayman S the price can get closer to that as well. Better an uncompromising, more expensive RS than a cheapened mainstrean model like the TTS (no pun intended, TTS drivers, but it's based on the engine from the base model for cost reasons). The RS is Audis last chance to make the TT rule it's class, and I really hope they'll use it.

[SigmaS6]

yes it will have DSG as standard I believe.
It should at least be available, as I wouldn't know any other reason why Audi started the development of the DQ500 DSG some time ago. There's no need for a DSG with 550NM torque limit in the transversal platform unless they put it in the TT-RS ;)

[Leadfoot]

I don't get your between the lines comments about it being special though, not really sure what specialty, except for the five cylinder, you could put in that car? Maybe you wanna describe the RS of your dreams a bit more concrete? :)

My position here is to provide info in a small but steady stream to keep interest in the up and coming models. As the date becomes closer the info will be more frequent and informative. :D


Concerning the price I don't think it'll be a problem, if the performance is close to a well specced Cayman S the price can get closer to that as well. Better an uncompromising, more expensive RS than a cheapened mainstrean model like the TTS (no pun intended, TTS drivers, but it's based on the engine from the base model for cost reasons). The RS is Audis last chance to make the TT rule it's class, and I really hope they'll use it.

You disregard of the TT/S because it's running a 2.0TFSi engine is silly, this car will be the leader in it's class, of that I am in no doubt what so ever.

The TT/RS will be quicker than the Cayman S, whether it will out handle the Cayman is another matter as no other production Porsche is better balanced and very few current production cars get close. My guess is that the test mule TT/RS has got so close to the perfection of the Cayman S that Porsche had to go ahead with the Cayman Turbo.

Don't wash over this fact of the Cayman Turbo because in deciding to build it has push the Cayman into a territory that Porsche said they would never go, that is to make a Cayman out-perform the 911. In doing so proves how good Porsche must regard this TT, and remember Porsche can easily wipe the floor with any BMW you care to mention.

[artur777]

KresoF1, please tell us what specs will have a FL 997S and 997TT???
Very interesting to know!

[Leadfoot]

I like RXBG am at a lose as to what Porsche are changing apart from giving the 997 range DFI and offering PDK as an optional extra. Both things will make the Porsche quicker but can't see how they are going to improve it's compromised handling balance inherent with it's basic design.

Anyone who has driven a GT3 or Carrera will know that they are not the type of car you can lean on when on an unfamiliar road or track as that rear weight bias doesn't take kindly to being man-handled in the same way as either the R8 or any front engined car can.

[KresoF1]

Leadie,

I do not agree with you at all here. Why? First, most Porsche owners are smart enough to take Porsche Driving Experience(sport driving school). When I owned a Boxster S I took two of this PDE lessons and in all honesty I learned a lot!

997 Series(or any 911) approach is slow-in, fast-out(of the corner). So, you are using traction of that rear engine layout sportscar. When you master that approach you are very fast on the track and on the road.

Next thing is traction. 997 offered amazing traction, specially RWD models. Did you know that Sport Auto tests all cars on wet handling track for its famous Supertest? Well, how about the fact that 997 Carrera S, 997 GT3 and 997 GT3 RS are faster on that wet handling track then R8. Case closed for me.

Did you tried to turn the steering wheel on R8 to full lock? You didn't? Well, try it... Many R8 owner on dedicted R8 web sites(not here) have same opinion as me-that this agricultural diff lock do not belong on car as expensive as R8.
As you know I love R8 but, EVO test results were not repeated by any other European magazine...

Please, do not bash Porsche that much. As a brand it is in all different(higher IMHO) league then Audi...

[RXBG]

kreso-

you make a good point about the low speed, shall we say, lack of finesse in the R8's viscous differential. i believe that if audi had put in the effort to give the R8 the new quattro system with the vectoring system that it would be that much better. as it is, though, the R8's handling is outstanding and notwithstanding the supertest you quote (which i have not had time to verify) the R8 is a safer and faster car in the hands of the average driver than a 997 in any version.

as a brand i disagree that it is on a different league than audi, though it may be more upscale in terms of pricing category. audi "owns" porsche in the design and materials department.

as it stands, i remain very excited to see what improvements porsche has made to its 911 line. and i look forward to a comparo between the updated C4S and the R8. i expect that the 09 model of the former will go up in price substantially, making it almost on par with the latter's 09 version, at least here in the US.

i really hope the V10 R8 moves things up a notch. that car will have stiff competition from the LF-A, new NSX, and what i am sure will be a new 997 TT S.

[KresoF1]

RXBG,

You and me share a same passion about R8. It is awsome car. BUT, it is not without some flaws(what is?)... Agricultural low speed steering feel(that stupid viscous diff)-specially when parking, front hood(try to open and close it down few times...), R8 is very prone to tires air pressure difference-too low and car dances around even with ESP on... BUT, all in all it is awsome car IMHO.

Regarding brand difference I do not agree with you at all. Only upper level car from Audi is R8. Q7 V12 TDI will be as well. RS6 is maybe at upper level...
Porsche is Icon. Yes, they are milking that fact a lot lately...

Here is my personal comparison between FL 997(only RWD Carrera and Carrera S models since AWD 4/4S models with updated AWD system will be introduced in November 2008) and current R8.

GEARBOX

FL 997: Manual and PDK
R8: Manual and R-Tronic

Observation: Since PDK is clearly a huge step above any sequential manual there is no discussion here. Also manual in 997s is better IMO then gated shifter in R8(BTW, problems like the one you have are not unknown for manual R8s...).

DRIVETRAIN

R8 AWD system is good but, not outstanding IMO. Balance of the car is very, very good and ESP is calibrated just right IMHO.
FL 997 will use as an option LSD and it is tuned to be more stable then already pretty good original 997 model. Forthcoming AWD 997s will use electronically controlled AWD, like the one on 997 Turbo.

ENGINE

R8 V8 is nice unit, just it lacks little bit in low and mid end grunt or torque. Power delivery is good. Soundtrack is very nice as well
FL 997 will use DFI engine with more power and turque. You can expect that base Carrera will be as fast as current R8...

I did not look at design(very personal thing) or aftersales value(market dependable)...

Major advantage of FL 997s is PDK. Even R8 V10 will not use any version of S-Tronic.

My verdict-R8 or FL997? BOTH. For various reasons...

[Leadfoot]

Leadie,

I do not agree with you at all here. Why? First, most Porsche owners are smart enough to take Porsche Driving Experience(sport driving school). When I owned a Boxster S I took two of this PDE lessons and in all honesty I learned a lot!

997 Series(or any 911) approach is slow-in, fast-out(of the corner). So, you are using traction of that rear engine layout sportscar. When you master that approach you are very fast on the track and on the road.

Next thing is traction. 997 offered amazing traction, specially RWD models. Did you know that Sport Auto tests all cars on wet handling track for its famous Supertest? Well, how about the fact that 997 Carrera S, 997 GT3 and 997 GT3 RS are faster on that wet handling track then R8. Case closed for me.

Did you tried to turn the steering wheel on R8 to full lock? You didn't? Well, try it... Many R8 owner on dedicted R8 web sites(not here) have same opinion as me-that this agricultural diff lock do not belong on car as expensive as R8.
As you know I love R8 but, EVO test results were not repeated by any other European magazine...

Please, do not bash Porsche that much. As a brand it is in all different(higher IMHO) league then Audi...

Like you I have owned Porsches, 2 Boxsters and 2 Cayennes and I too have been on driving day with Porsche so I know the ins and outs of both ownership and how they behave on the track. As you know most Porsche track days include Boxsters, Caymans and 911s so you get to experience what good and bad in each.

You think the 997 is a great car, I unfortunately don't share that belief, yes it has incredible traction out of corners but you never are at one with the thing in the same way that the Boxster/Cayman is, in these you really can lean on them with no nasties waiting at every corner. Sure the 997 is quicker and many enjoy trying to master the thing, I personally wait a car to work with me as I grow as a driver, not to fight against me every step of the way.

You feel the 997 is better than the R8, mate you choice the wrong car if that's your opinion.

[SigmaS6]

You disregard of the TT/S because it's running a 2.0TFSi engine is silly, this car will be the leader in it's class, of that I am in no doubt what so ever.
The lead can't be that significant though as the TT 3.2 has 15kg more weight and 22hp less. My point was more that the weight factor was not the reason why Audi went for this engine in the TTS, it was simply that a new engine would have been way more expensive.

But I really meant what I said: no pun intended. Let's wait for the first reviews of production cars (not press cars), maybe those will make the need for discussion superfluous :)

[RXBG]

kreso- you forgot audi's A8 W12 amd S8. both at top echelon. maybe it is a question of semantics regarding the word "league" between us.

you state the base carerra will be faster than the R8? wow. guess we'll see how it pans out. though imo it'll never be faster in curves.

[Leadfoot]

kreso- you state the base carerra will be faster than the R8? wow. guess we'll see how it pans out. though imo it'll never be faster in curves.

I can't agree with Kerso's belief that the stock 997FL will be quicker than the R8 as in most tests I have seen or read place the R8 ahead of the Carrera S and only when the Porsche includes the performance pack does it gain the upper hand though even then it slight.

If the basic 997 with DFI will gains 20hp, that still is 5hp less than the current Carrera S and on every test I have seen the R8 out handles it on the track, maybe SA is different but else where in the world the Audi does hold all the cards.

To me there is a world of difference between the R8 and the 997, especially on the open road, maybe the 4S will narrow the gap but I still believe the R8 will be the better choice, well in the UK at any rate.


The lead can't be that significant though as the TT 3.2 has 15kg more weight and 22hp less. My point was more that the weight factor was not the reason why Audi went for this engine in the TTS, it was simply that a new engine would have been way more expensive.

But I really meant what I said: no pun intended. Let's wait for the first reviews of production cars (not press cars), maybe those will make the need for discussion superfluous :)

I have driven both the 2.0TFSi TT and the 3.2 and to me the basic car is much sweet to steer and use, all this from a car with worse weight balance. The TT/S will address this weight balance plus uses the lighter engine thus improving the steering feel. I bet, no I know if you sample both cars back to back (TT/S vs 3.2) you will come away stating that the right engine was chosen for the job.

Remember what BMW stated when they gave the CSL a carbon-fibre roof, it's not so much the actual weight saving that as important as where the weight is coming off from, the same thing applies to the TT/S. ;)

In a small coupe handling finesse is more important than out-right grunt, the smaller engine suits the car better and that is why a smaller unit will going into the TT/RS instead of a 3.6Lv6. The TT is not an S5, it's a sportscar not a Grand Tourer, remember this fact.

[KresoF1]

kreso- you forgot audi's A8 W12 amd S8. both at top echelon. maybe it is a question of semantics regarding the word "league" between us.

you state the base carerra will be faster than the R8? wow. guess we'll see how it pans out. though imo it'll never be faster in curves.

Regarding A8 W12 and S8 I agree with you.

FL Carrera will be as fast as R8 in acceleration. Track time? R8 faster then base Carrera. Carrera S? It will be close call on the track...

[KresoF1]

I can't agree with Kerso's belief that the stock 997FL will be quicker than the R8 as in most tests I have seen or read place the R8 ahead of the Carrera S and only when the Porsche includes the performance pack does it gain the upper hand though even then it slight.

If the basic 997 with DFI will gains 20hp, that still is 5hp less than the current Carrera S and on every test I have seen the R8 out handles it on the track, maybe SA is different but else where in the world the Audi does hold all the cards.

To me there is a world of difference between the R8 and the 997, especially on the open road, maybe the 4S will narrow the gap but I still believe the R8 will be the better choice, well in the UK at any rate.


Leadie,

I said that FL Carrera with 345hp will be as fast as current R8. In acceleration...

Track times? Again-read my response to RXBG.

...and you are forgetting one very important item-PDK.

[SigmaS6]

I have driven both the 2.0TFSi TT and the 3.2 and to me the basic car is much sweet to steer and use
Because it is just way lighter. The quattro changes this though, the 3.2 and TTS weight nearly the same, therefore you can't interpolate the fwd 2.0 vs 3.2 to the TTS.



The TT/S will address this weight balance plus uses the lighter engine
Sure, but it's only 15kg difference. That's ~1%, maybe even the average weight difference between 3.2 and TTS drivers, who knows :)



I bet, no I know if you sample both cars back to back (TT/S vs 3.2) you will come away stating that the right engine was chosen for the job.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the 3.2 is better than the 2.0 from the TTS, I'm just saying they chose it because they didn't have anything more suitable at hand and not because it's the ultimate solution.



it's not so much the actual weight saving that as important as where the weight is coming off from, the same thing applies to the TT/S. ;)
But the TTS has no carbon parts, except for the engine and some style elements it's the same car, so the 15kg difference can only be caused by the engine itself. And I can't imagine that where ever you saved it from leverages the TTS into a different handling class.



that is why a smaller unit will going into the TT/RS instead of a 3.6Lv6.
And I totally agree with that decission. But I also bet the power to weight boost of the TT-RS compared to the TTS will be way bigger than the TTS vs. 3.2 boost. The result will be a real league difference in handling and agility.

[RXBG]

kreso- the PDK system does make a huge difference. but, the way i always ee it is that we have to compare cars that are as similar as possible. the real question is, will the manual 997 S be faster than an R8 on the track. that is what i want to know and see. if the R8 had a DSG it would be insane.


..........not that i would ever get one so equipped, of course.

[Leadfoot]

Leadie,

I said that FL Carrera with 345hp will be as fast as current R8. In acceleration...

Track times? Again-read my response to RXBG.

...and you are forgetting one very important item-PDK.

Sorry, I thought we would be comparing like with like, manual to manual. I agree that PDK will have an advantage in terms of acceleration over either a manual or R/Tronic but that advantage is solely down to the gearbox and zero to do with the other changes in my mind.

On the track I don't think PDK will hold any real advantage against R/Tronic as both are paddle shifts and thus keep both hands on the wheel. Wet handling IS all about traction and that is why the 997 does so well, this is an area where though the R8 is good it isn't as good as the Porsche.

I know where I would place my money and it wouldn't be with the 997, call me an Audi Fanboy if you like but my opinions are based on my experience of the 911 and I don't rate it compared to their lesser models, unlike the R8 which clearly is the star of the range.

[The Pretender]

I think the credibility of my source goes without question.....

:thumb:

Jarod.

[Rage]

KresoF1, please tell us what specs will have a FL 997S and 997TT???
Very interesting to know!

www.rennteam.com 997 board is very informative

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=997&Number=257643&page=0&fpart=80


There is an attachment towards the bottom of page 80 of that thread with details of all the changes.

[KresoF1]

For members only...

FL 997 fact so far:

Carrera 3.6L 345hp/390Nm
Carrera S 3.8L 385hp/420Nm

PDK with 7speed as option(code 250)
LSD option on RWD models
PASM Sport suspension option(code P17, iclude PASM with -20mm and LSD)
Sport Chrono Plus(include LC, race track gearshift strategy for PDK and additional Sport Plus button)

Official Press intro 06th June 2008.

[AndyBG]

This means. ''bye, bye Tiptronic'' or it to will be offered?

[KresoF1]

This means. ''bye, bye Tiptronic'' or it to will be offered?

NO more TIP in any NA engine Carrera or Targa...

[andreadebi]

For members only...

FL 997 fact so far:

Carrera 3.6L 345hp/390Nm
Carrera S 3.8L 385hp/420Nm

PDK with 7speed as option(code 250)
LSD option on RWD models
PASM Sport suspension option(code P17, iclude PASM with -20mm and LSD)
Sport Chrono Plus(include LC, race track gearshift strategy for PDK and additional Sport Plus button)

Official Press intro 06th June 2008.

fab optionals! what about sport chrono plus? LC also for manual (as GT2 system?).Sport plus button?can you explain this feature?thanks

[RXBG]

thanks for the info kreso.

i keep harping on it but i can't wait to see a fully optiioned C4S vs V8 R8 shoot out.

.... i hope the R8 wins!

[andreadebi]

official leaked from http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=35763


6461

6462

6463

[KresoF1]

This info was on rennteam almost 24h ago...

[RXBG]

c'mon kreso. out of the closet. get a porsche already.....

:p

[KresoF1]

c'mon kreso. out of the closet. get a porsche already.....

:p

YES. I am Porsche and Audi fan. So?

...and another yes. FL 997 is very tempting indeed...:hahahehe:

[Audiphile]

Regarding A8 W12 and S8 I agree with RX and Kreso.

Agreed. All you have to do is sit in the A8L W12 and then the Bentley Flying Spur to see the incredible execution and quality of the W12 when fitted with Audi's exclusive W12 interiors and gizmos. The Flying Spur doesn't come close IMHO.

[The Pretender]

Why is this a "TT/RS will be the one to watch" thread. ?

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

Why is this a "TT/RS will be the one to watch" thread. ?

Jarod.

Agreed, it looks like someone stole it for their own agenda, to promote the new 997. :w:

[KresoF1]

Agreed, it looks like someone stole it for their own agenda, to promote the new 997. :w:

Leadie,

I hope that Audi Marketing department will give you a nice credit for your clear Audi Fanatism... YES, fanatism.

Back OT.

Dear members of rs6.com,

Please post a deposit for TTR ASAP since our beloved contributing member Leadfoot(aka Footie from some BMW forums) is giving to us precious info that "TT/RS will be the one to watch"...

Oh, I am sorry that I praised new FL 997 so much. BUT, I did not open this debate in to the 997 direction. Leadie said in his initial post that new TTR will create a problem for 997...

[artur777]

Leadie,

I hope that Audi Marketing department will give you a nice credit for your clear Audi Fanatism... YES, fanatism.

Back OT.

Dear members of rs6.com,

Please post a deposit for TTR ASAP since our beloved contributing member Leadfoot(aka Footie from some BMW forums) is giving to us precious info that "TT/RS will be the one to watch"...

Oh, I am sorry that I praised new FL 997 so much. BUT, I did not open this debate in to the 997 direction. Leadie said in his initial post that new TTR will create a problem for 997...

Leadfoot and Footie is the same person??? A nice one news!
I had some same feeelings...

But I agree with Kreso - that Audi should really remunerate Leadfoot for his love to Audi !

[Leadfoot]

Yes I did include the 997 in my opening comments but you are taking this referral to the 997 out of context. The TT/RS will be so good that Porsche after sampling the test mule have given the green light to the Cayman Turbo and thus it's it and not the TT that is the problem for the 997.

To jump from a TT/RS thread to a 997 thread is what Jarod was complaining about, something I was in agreement.

The same thing is happening with every thread, the R8 usually turns into a Porsche thread. Porsche are great cars but their dogged refusal to retire the old 911 is holding them back in my opinion, the Cayman or something similar is their future, not the 997.

If any car proved how out of touch the 997 is that had to be the R8, here was a car which proved that a practical car which was easy to drive could have supercar looks and yet for all it's practicality it's handling was a breath of fresh air. You insist that you have a R8 on order but most of your recent comments give the impression that this is no longer the case and the 997 is in favour now.

There is definitely members on this site which have an different opinion and agenda but most here are interested in Audis and what is coming in the future. My credibility has been put in question with the recent things I have wrote, which mainly are painting a different view to yours, your source comes from quattro Gmbh in Neckarsulm, that is interesting, I wonder which part he works in, maybe I should ask my friend to say hi the next time.

[KresoF1]

Yes I did include the 997 in my opening comments but you are taking this referral to the 997 out of context. The TT/RS will be so good that Porsche after sampling the test mule have given the green light to the Cayman Turbo and thus it's it and not the TT that is the problem for the 997.

To jump from a TT/RS thread to a 997 thread is what Jarod was complaining about, something I was in agreement.

The same thing is happening with every thread, the R8 usually turns into a Porsche thread. Porsche are great cars but their dogged refusal to retire the old 911 is holding them back in my opinion, the Cayman or something similar is their future, not the 997.

If any car proved how out of touch the 997 is that had to be the R8, here was a car which proved that a practical car which was easy to drive could have supercar looks and yet for all it's practicality it's handling was a breath of fresh air. You insist that you have a R8 on order but most of your recent comments give the impression that this is no longer the case and the 997 is in favour now.

There is definitely members on this site which have an different opinion and agenda but most here are interested in Audis and what is coming in the future. My credibility has been put in question with the recent things I have wrote, which mainly are painting a different view to yours, your source comes from quattro Gmbh in Neckarsulm, that is interesting, I wonder which part he works in, maybe I should ask my friend to say hi the next time.

If you agree let's put the flame down...

First, I do not judge about your credibility. It is NOT the question here. Problem for me is your lack of freedom for other people's opinion(recently, in the past you were much more open minded, or I am wrong?)...

Second, honestly if Porsche introduced FL 997 few months ago I would go for it. Maybe I even do that... My R8 order is still ON. For me both FL 997 and R8 are THE sportscars-fast, practical and with great image. This is my opinion.

Third, I am sportscar fan at first and then an Audi and Porsche fan. You are apparently first an Audi fan then an M3 fan...

Fourth, I respect you highly. Your opinion is always a welcome thing for Audi fans.

P.S.

About my source from NSU... He is much higher then you think...

[AndyBG]

Where from all this ''fire'' come... :confused:

Many threads go ''up and down'' with themes and I don't see that much of a problem there.
I'm big Porsche fan, but Audi is my big love to, please try to settle this piecefully...

:cheers:

[pampas]

No car is the best in it's segment. Cause one might complain about the look, or about the weight, speed, track times, etc. It's impossible to match all, and even if you like one I might not like it for some reason. That's why there are so many brands out there, but for me Audi is the best ALL AROUND brand, might not be the best on all points, but it doesn't fall behind (where it falls) that much either.

The TT is a great car, very nice handling, it's light, really good electro-magnetic suspension ... with a STRONG engine that car can outperform heavier RS4/5 cars in the turns at least. I hope not, cause I am fixed on the RS5 (so of course I want it to be the best), but a 350hp light TT will be great. Yes, Leadi is a little too enthusiast, but his info was pretty accurate in the past and his opinion counts. Yours too Kreso. Can't say that about all members.

[Rage]

Hurrah...we all love each other again:cheers:

[Leadfoot]

Yeah, it's all love once more.

Guys I know I'm a REAL fan of the brand, it's partly with what I know and partly because of my belief in Quattro as a system. What Pampas said is so true, no brand holds all the top spots, be it handling, performance, looks, practicality or economy but I do believe that Audi with the sportie numbers do offer the best overall balance of each and almost all of this is down to that Quattro system.

Sure BMW and Porsche might offer a more entertaining experience but seldom do they offer a better balance between performance, confidence to push the car harder and grip for all conditions.

The word is that the TT/RS is a star among the range and it's special enough to make Porsche sit up and take note that their current Cayman S isn't good enough and something special was needed to readdress the balance in the form of the Cayman Turbo. We already know that the Cayman is the true star in the Porsche line up, the chassis balance is supreme and given a LSD and more power it's abilities would place the 997 with really credibility problems, the Cayman Turbo may just be the car to ask this question of the 997.

The question we must ask is if the Cayman Turbo is capable to rock the 997 and the cars around it then what does that not say about the TT/RS? ;)

[andreadebi]

This info was on rennteam almost 24h ago...

yes,I only reported here.Nice technical adds

[SigmaS6]

Btw, the latest issue of Auto Motor and Sport now lists the TT-RS as 'to be released by the end of 2009 at the earliest'. Guess I either have to take back my comment about them having good knowledge of Audis roadmaps or Audi is just crazy and pushes it back and forth every other week.

Would be a poor choice in my opinion if they really would bring it out as a cliff hanger to the next generation TT like the classical RS models instead of releasing it while the model still has a certain freshness, as they do with the newer RS models (e.g. RS5).

[Leadfoot]

Btw, the latest issue of Auto Motor and Sport now lists the TT-RS as 'to be released by the end of 2009 at the earliest'. Guess I either have to take back my comment about them having good knowledge of Audis roadmaps or Audi is just crazy and pushes it back and forth every other week.

Would be a poor choice in my opinion if they really would bring it out as a cliff hanger to the next generation TT like the classical RS models instead of releasing it while the model still has a certain freshness, as they do with the newer RS models (e.g. RS5).

It was always destined to be released in the latter half of 2009 never before that, meaning between the RS5 and the RS4 releases. Nothing can ever be set in stone, in most cases a product may have reached production readiness 6 months before it's actually released.

Market conditions can be a major factor as much as anything else.

P.S.
I reckon it will be worth the wait. ;)

[SigmaS6]

It was always destined to be released in the latter half of 2009 never before that
Sure, but somehow I liked the June 2009 they claimed a few issues ago much better than that early 2010 release ;)

[Erik]

OK guys please calm down...

[artur777]

Guys, what do you think:
which car - TTRS, RS6 or RS5 will be faster in straight line?

[Leadfoot]

Guys, what do you think:
which car - TTRS, RS6 or RS5 will be faster in straight line?

All will be equal. ;)

















Well until the limiters are removed. :hihi:

[AndyBG]

It will be interested if TTR could top 300 km/h..., RS 5 of c', but TTR...

[KresoF1]

It will be interested if TTR could top 300 km/h..., RS 5 of c', but TTR...

You mean 280km/h?;)

[ZeroCool]

I'm sure that TT-R or TT-RS or however they'll call it - will be able to brake 300 ;)

[Rage]

All will be equal. ;)

I think MB, BMW and Audi are all moving to the stage when the high performance models will have very similar performances speed wise. All you have to do is choose which niche you want within their respective lineups.

Ps. I thought the TTRS was due before the RS5?

[artur777]

All will be equal. ;)
Well until the limiters are removed. :hihi:

Thanks - I think the same.
RS6 will be capbale of higher maximum speed - for sure:)

[Leadfoot]

Thanks - I think the same.
RS6 will be capbale of higher maximum speed - for sure:)

It the small matter of horsepower, this more than anything will determine how fast a car will be.

The RS6 could easily do 212mph (339Km/h) but certain restriction mean it's limited to 175mph (280km/h).

The RS5 should easily better the 175mph mark as weight should be less of a problem for it, so I reckon it's true top speed will be 195mph with it's estimated hp.

The TT/RS will top out at 175~180mph, nothing more as it's hp shouldn't allow it to push any harder through the air.

[SigmaS6]

Ps. I thought the TTRS was due before the RS5?
For some reason the TT seems to be a low priority model compared to the A4/A5, the S5 release as well as the S4 schedules seem to indicate that those cars are much more appreciated than the TTS. And I guess it will be the same fate with the TT-RS.

[ZeroCool]

It the small matter of horsepower, this more than anything will determine how fast a car will be.

The RS6 could easily do 212mph (339Km/h) but certain restriction mean it's limited to 175mph (280km/h).

The RS5 should easily better the 175mph mark as weight should be less of a problem for it, so I reckon it's true top speed will be 195mph with it's estimated hp.

The TT/RS will top out at 175~180mph, nothing more as it's hp shouldn't allow it to push any harder through the air.

Are you sure about this? Specially the RS6 ...

as far as i can remember Qisha wrote, that the RS6 - is capable of doing about 315km/h - but has the restrictions of weight and tires...but 339km/h?

[Leadfoot]

Are you sure about this? Specially the RS6 ...

as far as i can remember Qisha wrote, that the RS6 - is capable of doing about 315km/h - but has the restrictions of weight and tires...but 339km/h?

Sorry, my figures were out but only a little, 208mph (333km/h) was what the RS6 had been tested at.

315km/h was what Audi are looking from the RS6 as it's true limiter, not the 280km/h token gesture that has had to been offered because of the weight and tyre restrictions.

[ZeroCool]

Ok ;)

My mistake...

[Leadfoot]

Ok ;)

My mistake...

No problem. :thumb:

Thanks for keeping me honest. ;)

[RXBG]

so i just read the USA TT S coupe will do 0-60 in 4.9 secs with the DSG (5.1 sans). i hope audi didn't overestimate its time. audi is usually conservative about these things and i cannot believe that in real life this car will do 4.7.

that being said, if audi is spot on with the figure, the RS version will do 4.6 or less, officially. very fast- though it'll need a DSG in order for the numbers to compare directly.

proves that if the R8 had a DSG it would rip 4.2 second official times....

[SigmaS6]

so i just read the USA TT S coupe will do 0-60 in 4.9 secs with the DSG (5.1 sans).
Uhm, you have denser air in the US or why isn't the TTS bound to it's official times of 5.4/5.2 as for the rest of the world?

[RXBG]

these are DSG times. the manual adds .2

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Audi_News/article_3960.shtml

[SigmaS6]

But 5.4/5.2 is what Audi officially states on the homepage. Where do they get the third second of boost from then?

[Leadfoot]

It is common for cars which quote for 0-100Km/h in one country to then quote 0.1s less for the 0-60mph discipline. What we have here is the US dropping a further 0.2s off this time.

Will the TT/S be able to accelerate to 60mph in less than 5 seconds, I doubt it but given the right conditions and surface I suppose anything is possible. ;)

P.S.

BMW officially quote 4.8s for the M3 0-100km/h and yet it's been time at 4.2s for the 0-60mph discipline. Anything is possible.

[oxygenracing]

Today my Audi salesman told me that a TT-RS will come summer 2009, with a 2.5L 5cyl 350hp engine. Is that for real?!

[SigmaS6]

Imo it sounds likely and is in synch with what's assumed by the community atm, but as long as there is no (indirect) confirmation from Audi (e.g. Audi dealers can spec their demo cars) it's just as good as any other speculation.

[Leadfoot]

Today my Audi salesman told me that a TT-RS will come summer 2009, with a 2.5L 5cyl 350hp engine. Is that for real?!

The TT/RS is a reality of this I know for sure. Whether it will be available in the summer of 2009 is the only thing I can't say for sure and to be honest with you no one could, I'm expecting later than that but who knows. ;)

[The Pretender]

R5 2.5 litre 350 hp is old carmedia speculation.
More likely is a 2.3 litre five cylinder TFSI engine with ± 310 hp.
btw, it's test running bullitproof with 380 hp.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

R5 2.5 litre 350 hp is old carmedia speculation.
More likely is a 2.3 litre five cylinder TFSI engine with ± 310 hp.
btw, it's test running bullitproof with 380 hp.

Jarod.

If it does end up with only 310hp I can tell you that it's ring lap time will be around the 8:12 mark. ;) Though I reckon the final output may move up from this figure to something closer to the original estimates at which point the ring time will also slightly improve. :D

[Rage]

Semi-official documents at my Audi dealer slate the TTRS for 2010.

Their current TTS allocation is sold out till 2009.

I wouldnt expect to drive away in a TTRS till 2010 assuming your first in line at your dealer.

The current semi-official forecast ends with the TTRS for 2010....no word on RS5. Assume it to be after the TTRS.

Also the R8V10 is confirmed as having the RS6 engine.

[HKS786]

Semi-official documents at my Audi dealer slate the TTRS for 2010.

Their current TTS allocation is sold out till 2009.

I wouldnt expect to drive away in a TTRS till 2010 assuming your first in line at your dealer.

The current semi-official forecast ends with the TTRS for 2010....no word on RS5. Assume it to be after the TTRS.

Also the R8V10 is confirmed as having the RS6 engine.

Thanks. How reliable is your source for the R8V10?

[AndyBG]

Semi-official documents at my Audi dealer slate the TTRS for 2010.

Their current TTS allocation is sold out till 2009.

I wouldnt expect to drive away in a TTRS till 2010 assuming your first in line at your dealer.

The current semi-official forecast ends with the TTRS for 2010....no word on RS5. Assume it to be after the TTRS.

Also the R8V10 is confirmed as having the RS6 engine.

If that is the correct time table... :rolleyes:

Audi is on the BIG late...:noshake:

They NEED these cars much sooner!

[Leadfoot]

Listen, time tables are there to be broken. Whether this will be the case here I definitely don't know, all I know was that the TT/RS is coming, the rough spec ;) and when it's due. My info said late 2009, RS5 mid 2009 and RS4 mid 2010 (possibly). If this has changed then I am unaware of it but that does not meant it's not right.

Other interesting news for you all is that we will soon be seeing some hi-performance diesel versions of the twin-turbo variety. BMW, hold on to your hats because things are about to get tougher for you. :hihi:

Will keep you posted. :thumb:

[AndyBG]

I like what I hear! :D

I hope that you are wright! :cheers:

[Audiphile]

Leadfoot's information is usually very spot-on. :thumb: Great news!:jlol:

[chewym]

Audi should do the following math: (270/4)*5

330-340 horsepower TT RS.

[Leadfoot]

Audi should do the following math: (270/4)*5

330-340 horsepower TT RS.

Maths is a wonderful subject don't you think. ;)

[RXBG]

why do i find it so hard to believe that audi will be putting a V10 TT in the R8?

maybe because-

a) it would leave an enormous gap in the R8 line
b) it would destroy the LP560

[Rage]

Thanks. How reliable is your source for the R8V10?

No prob:)

Sorry for late reply...was away.

That was in an email showed to me as a circular sent by the head of an Audi franchise. They own 3 Audi dealerships in London. It seemed very factual rather than speculative.

Strangely there was no mention of the RS5. Might be pushed back? Might be scheduled for before the TTRS but not confirmed for set dates?

[pampas]

No prob:)

Sorry for late reply...was away.

That was in an email showed to me as a circular sent by the head of an Audi franchise. They own 3 Audi dealerships in London. It seemed very factual rather than speculative.

Strangely there was no mention of the RS5. Might be pushed back? Might be scheduled for before the TTRS but not confirmed for set dates?


You are right, my info is pretty much the same.
R8 V10 = Q1 2009
TT RS = Q3 2009

No info about RS5, nothing on the schedule for 2009 at least. Don't have the official launch for 2010 yet.

[artur777]

As far as I understand,

RS5 should be presented in the mid-2009.
TT-RS later - because TT-S was introduced later than S5.
And Audi badly needs new RS5/RS4 breed to compete with M3/C63/IS-F/CTS-V

[RXBG]

i don't believe the TTR will precede the RS5. interesingly, though, we have seen what appears to be the TTR testing in sweden and i think at the ring. but we have seen the RS5 of sorts in sweden only.

audi does need the RS5 more than it needs the TTR at the moment. and i cannot see the TTR coming in Q3 09. the first TTS's will not be delivered till late Q3 or Q4 of this year while the S5 has been out for almost a year now.

i'd hedge my bets on the RS5 first- sometime in CY 2009, maybe as early as geneve- march or april 2009. the TTR, probably frankfurt - late sept 2009. i am also sure that the V10 R8 will be presented later than we expected- not paris 2008, but sometime in CY 2009. i keep reading that the V8 is so hot right now and the V10 competitors are not hot to trot yet (LF-A, NSX, updated 997 TT).

maybe 2009 will be the year of the "RS".

[The Pretender]

Audi have stated that they will not introduce further R8 models this year.
They will be prospone for at leased one year, due to the succes of the R8 V8 4.2 FSI.

The TT-R(S)will be seen on Geneva 2009 IMHO and the RS5 is rumoured for Paris 2008 and the new RS4 for Frankfurt 2009.

Jarod.

[Rage]

Audi have stated that they will not introduce further R8 models this year.
They will be prospone for at leased one year, due to the succes of the R8 V8 4.2 FSI.

The TT-R(S)will be seen on Geneva 2009 IMHO and the RS5 is rumoured for Paris 2008 and the new RS4 for Frankfurt 2009.

Jarod.

Paris motor show is september no? There have not been spyshots (that im aware of) of RS5 testing at the ring. I hope youre right but where are the 8000km mandatory RS testing at the ring?

[SigmaS6]

TT-RS later - because TT-S was introduced later than S5.

I don't think that's related, imo a Q3/2009 release for the RS would mean more than one year offset to the TTS, which should be enough, plus it would be a nice distraction from the new BMW Z4 that's introduced in 2009 as well.


i don't believe the TTR will precede the RS5.
Me neither, but there's plenty of space in 2009 to put it before the TT-RS ;)


interesingly, though, we have seen what appears to be the TTR testing in sweden and i think at the ring.
The TT-RS was also tested long before that in Italy, just because no pics appeared doesn't mean it wasn't done ;)



the first TTS's will not be delivered till late Q3 or Q4 of this year
Delivery dates are currently starting at week 24, so it's a bit late but still in schedule.



while the S5 has been out for almost a year now.
But that's due to the early S-release strategy by Audi, so I don't think that the normal time offsets apply in this case as well.



maybe 2009 will be the year of the "RS".
The sooner they bring em out the better for us car lovers. I never really liked to play the waiting game when a great looking platform just didin't have the most desirable engine yet. In my perfect world they'd release the models sorted by performance, quickest model first :D

[RXBG]

sigma.

guess we'll see. audi does need to keep the momentum going. last two shows have not been very exciting. they need something hot for the paris show. it had better be some kind of RS and not the RS6 sedan, otherwise it will be a disappointment.

[The Pretender]

they need something hot for the paris show.

R8 V10. ;)

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

http://static.autoweb.cz/photo/thumb/32648_800x600x75.jpg (http://static.autoweb.cz/photo/thumb/32648_800x600x75.jpg)
http://static.autoweb.cz/photo/thumb/32647_800x600x75.jpg (http://static.autoweb.cz/photo/thumb/32647_800x600x75.jpg)
http://static.autoweb.cz/photo/thumb/32646_800x600x75.jpg (http://static.autoweb.cz/photo/thumb/32646_800x600x75.jpg)
http://static.autoweb.cz/photo/thumb/32645_800x600x75.jpg (http://static.autoweb.cz/photo/thumb/32645_800x600x75.jpg)

Jarod.

[Rage]

I hope that not the final bodykit.

[AndyBG]

It isn't, I'm sure and I hope...

[The Pretender]

It is again a foglight-less S-line bodykit on this mule.
I still hope te see the clubsport wide fender body kit on the TTR(S).

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

It is again a foglight-less S-line bodykit on this mule.
I still hope te see the clubsport wide fender body kit on the TTR(S).

Jarod.

I believe the looks are a done deal.

[Rage]

I believe the looks are a done deal.

The above looks?

[roadrunner]

I believe the looks are a done deal.

British humer is fine :hihi: but the rear diffusor (cut out by hand to make space for the RS tailpipes).

[KresoF1]

British humer is fine :hihi: but the rear diffusor (cut out by hand to make space for the RS tailpipes).

...or maybe picture is PS? Look very carefully...

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

the pics are real but the look is (of course) not final.

Would be a bit underdressed, mh? ;)

Qisha

[The Pretender]

The above looks?
No the Clubsport look.

Jarod.

[HKS786]

Dear Friends,

the pics are real but the look is (of course) not final.

Would be a bit underdressed, mh? ;)

Qisha

Of course it's not. You're right.

If you guys remember when they tested the new RS6 they used A6 S-line prototypes and S6 prototypes. The only visual clues Audi leaves are the twin RS exhausts ;)

I seriously cant wait for this car. I've seen the 1 series coupe on the road, and it doesnt look AS bad as before, but it still looks very calculated and strange with its tiny proportions. The TT looks very natural as a smaller sports car despite being an older design :D

[SigmaS6]

I hope that not the final bodykit.
You mean they'll jigsaw all TT-RS rear skirts manually to work with the exhausts? :D

[Rage]

You mean they'll jigsaw all TT-RS rear skirts manually to work with the exhausts? :D

erm...dunno..maybe?:)

[Leadfoot]

British humer is fine :hihi: but the rear diffusor (cut out by hand to make space for the RS tailpipes).

What I meant was that the Clubsports looks and the wider wheel arches are an insight into how the TT/R will look.

This red car with S/line bodykit is only a test bed, nothing more.

[SigmaS6]

This red car with S/line bodykit is only a test bed, nothing more.
It's also a small source of hope for those longing for a timely release :)

[Damienr8]

I love the Fat, Oval exhausts

[Audiphile]

Unless Porsche becomes involved.

[KresoF1]

New German AMS says that maybe there will not be a Audi with R5 engine at all...

[Leadfoot]

New German AMS says that maybe there will not be a Audi with R5 engine at all...

That would be very sad if true, all that development work for the engine it end up in something else.

I hope not. ;)

[KresoF1]

That would be very sad if true, all that development work for the engine it end up in something else.

I hope not. ;)

I fully agree with you.

They said that problem is too high CO2 emission of R5 TFSI...

[SigmaS6]

They said that problem is too high CO2 emission of R5 TFSI...
That's simply BS:


[...]the relevance of an RS model on global CO2 levels you can just forget because of the low volume and if you multiply the average mileage that an average RS drives a year and then multiply the number of cars… just forget it.
Stephan Reil, Head of Technology Development, quattro GmbH to Fourtitude (http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Features/article_3975.shtml), less than a month ago.

But as I'm always interested in rumours even if they make no sense: what else did they say in AMS? :)

[ZeroCool]

IMO - AMS need to write things like that - that somebody even reads the magazine :)

i'm 100% sure - there's nothing about this rumour...as Leadie said, the Development work, and so on ... would be for nothing :)

[The Pretender]

The R5 TFSI engine will be based on the R4 TFSI engine, there is not that much to develop.
Most time will be spend in making the engine bullitprove.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

The R5 TFSI engine will be based on the R4 TFSI engine, there is not that much to develop.
Most time will be spend in making the engine bullitprove.

Jarod.

Bullitproof is already is. But up to what output did Audi finally say enough was enough. ;)

[The Pretender]

My info say that it's running bullitprove @ 380 hp.

Jarod.

[ZeroCool]

@Jarod...

I've heard the same...

[Leadfoot]

My info say that it's running bullitprove @ 380 hp.

Jarod.

Well that's five more than me but then my info might have been BHP and not PS. ;)

[SigmaS6]

But what figures are you talking about here? I mean we have the power the end user will get, the power the engine was designed for, the power audi found to be the maximum possible before it's ripped to shreds and the power Abt, MTM & co can easily go for with a simple chip mod. Which one of those is the 380+-5?

And do you also concur within such a close range on the supposed release date? :)

[Leadfoot]

But what figures are you talking about here? I mean we have the power the end user will get, the power the engine was designed for, the power audi found to be the maximum possible before it's ripped to shreds and the power Abt, MTM & co can easily go for with a simple chip mod. Which one of those is the 380+-5?

And do you also concur within such a close range on the supposed release date? :)

The only thing I know is that late summer '09 is the most likely release date. Output power is a guesstimate at say 320~325hp and I believe a new 7sp S/Tronic gearbox with upgrade awd + magneticride. Weight will be close to the present TT/S and the most likely name will be a letter swap from S to R.

Apart from the rough date the rest is a guess. ;)

[The Pretender]

I still think we will see it @ Geneva 2009, with a 3/4 trimester market introduction.
The production model will end up with 240 Kw and 440 Nm of torque IMHO. ;)

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

I still think we will see it @ Geneva 2009, with a 3/4 trimester market introduction.
The production model will end up with 240 Kw and 440 Nm of torque IMHO. ;)

Jarod.

325hp s 326.7hp. You are going to argue over 1.7hp. :cheers:

The 440Nm sounds a little high for the production car but it's possible, I'm thinking closer to 410~420Nm with a slightly flat curve but either way it will be one kill of a car and engine.

Personally I can't wait. :love2:

[The Pretender]

You are going to argue over 1.7hp. :cheers:

I'm not argueing about anything. :vhmmm:
Just saying what i think. ;)

Jarod.

[SigmaS6]

325hp s 326.7hp.
Even though the SLK 55 sets the class top range at 360hp? Yes, the TT will be lighter, but I hate it if Audi always does the minimum necessary to be on par with the rest instead of just beating the crap out of them with all that potential...

[Rage]

Even though the SLK 55 sets the class top range at 360hp? Yes, the TT will be lighter, but I hate it if Audi always does the minimum necessary to be on par with the rest instead of just beating the crap out of them with all that potential...

Forget the SLK. The next Z4M will no doubt be a monster. I expect the M3V8 will makes its way into it eventually.

[SigmaS6]

Forget the SLK. The next Z4M will no doubt be a monster. I expect the M3V8 will makes its way into it eventually.
I fear they might keep the design though, not really to my taste and the interior is just awful compared to Audi. Also I guess the release of the new Z4M is probably not due before 2010 anyway?

But I'm a bit of an engine whore, if it's noticably better than what the TT-RS will offer I'll go with it. It would be sad though as everything else on the TT is more to my liking.

Btw, the last time I was talking to a friend of mine who works for Audi (sadly not for quattro) he told me the floor talks were that (at least) two engines were tested for the TT-RS, a smaller and a bigger one (I guess 2.3l 320ps and 2.5l 360ps?). Has it already been decided to drop the bigger one?

[Leadfoot]

I fear they might keep the design though, not really to my taste and the interior is just awful compared to Audi. Also I guess the release of the new Z4M is probably not due before 2010 anyway?

But I'm a bit of an engine whore, if it's noticably better than what the TT-RS will offer I'll go with it. It would be sad though as everything else on the TT is more to my liking.

Btw, the last time I was talking to a friend of mine who works for Audi (sadly not for quattro) he told me the floor talks were that (at least) two engines were tested for the TT-RS, a smaller and a bigger one (I guess 2.3l 320ps and 2.5l 360ps?). Has it already been decided to drop the bigger one?

The biggest thing wrong with the Z4 is it's chassis, steering and looks both inside and out, apart from that I like it. :hihi:

No seriously the Z4M Mk2 may have a more powerful engine and will surely bring M-DKG to the platform unlike the previous model but it's not going to offer the same kind of driving experience that the TT/R will have. It's experience will maintain that raw edge that Audi don't have even in their RS car, which to be honest is the correct decision because these cars are everyday road cars not track specials.

The guesstimate of power that both myself and Jarod are suggesting is based on a little info, a bit of experience and a lot of guess work. Whether it's a 2.3 or a 2.5 will no doubt determine whether it's the smaller output or the larger. As for me I personally don't mind either as long as the handling is what I have been lead to believe it will be like.

Better cornering speed is more important than out-right acceleration because without a high exit speed your speed down the straight will not be that great and you will always be chasing your tail. The overall weight is the single most important thing on this car, get that right and the rest will follow.

[The Pretender]

I hope to see that the new TT-R will have the new XWD Haldex 4.0.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/11/02112807.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/11/03112807.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/11/04112807.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/11/05112807.jpg

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

Here the system on the move under a Saab.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0ckv3fbg44&eurl=http://www.autoblog.com/2007/11/30/saab-xwd-haldex-4-0-all-wheel-drive-system-up-close (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0ckv3fbg44&eurl=http://www.autoblog.com/2007/11/30/saab-xwd-haldex-4-0-all-wheel-drive-system-up-close/)

Jarod.

[trick]

What has the TT-S got? The upgrade from the standard TT Quattro system makes it sound suspiciously like XWD.

[RXBG]

looks cool as hell. but what is better about it?

[The Pretender]

looks cool as hell. but what is better about it?
It can transfer 100% of the torque to the rear wheels and up to 85% to one of the rear wheels.

http://www.haldex-xwd.com (http://www.haldex-xwd.com/)

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

looks cool as hell. but what is better about it?

In theory this system should be technically more advanced than the traditional quattro system but up to now no one has got the system to perform the way a sporty driver would want it to. I believe it still primarily runs the front wheels with most of the power so in normal situations it should still behave like any other TT but given the right conditions it will slide the tail with the best of them.

Now if Audi can set the normal bias of the system predominately to the rear it should make the TT/R truly something special. It's weight over the nose is a lot less than any other RS Audi and unlike all of them it can also shift all of it's power to the rear.

I hate repeating myself but this will be something special among RS models. :thumb:

[Rage]

In theory this system should be technically more advanced than the traditional quattro system but up to now no one has got the system to perform the way a sporty driver would want it to. I believe it still primarily runs the front wheels with most of the power so in normal situations it should still behave like any other TT but given the right conditions it will slide the tail with the best of them.

Now if Audi can set the normal bias of the system predominately to the rear it should make the TT/R truly something special. It's weight over the nose is a lot less than any other RS Audi and unlike all of them it can also shift all of it's power to the rear.

I hate repeating myself but this will be something special among RS models. :thumb:


Tell them to hurry up or i'm buying an M3/CS:hihi:

[SigmaS6]

It can transfer 100% of the torque to the rear wheels and up to 85% to one of the rear wheels.

This time for real? I know Audi is advertising the current Haldex the same way, i.e. if the front wheels are on ice and only the back wheels have grip you have 100% traction at the back, even though the front wheels spin at the same speed as there's a direct connection between gearbox and front axle that can't be switched off or reduced.

[Leadfoot]

This time for real? I know Audi is advertising the current Haldex the same way, i.e. if the front wheels are on ice and only the back wheels have grip you have 100% traction at the back, even though the front wheels spin at the same speed as there's a direct connection between gearbox and front axle that can't be switched off or reduced.

Yeah, it's for real this time and though the new TT/S is using the same system it's setup is very traditional Audi, ie. safe and front bias instead of racy and predominately rear bias. But in case you don't think the TT/S can throw the tail here a video (http://www.drivers-republic.com/videos/index.cfm?VideoID=78a4ef55790d4d57bd20c5940dfe1da7 #videos) showing the tail coming into play.

[The Pretender]

The lastest Porsche Boxster S and Cayman S will have 303 hp till the facelift comes alive.
And don't expect the facelift will have less hp's, maybe even more with DFI introduction.
The TT-S will compete with the normal Boxster/Cayman and the TT-RS (or what name it will have) will compete with the new S models.

Hans.

[PeterJohn]

In theory this system should be technically more advanced than the traditional quattro system but up to now no one has got the system to perform the way a sporty driver would want it to. I believe it still primarily runs the front wheels with most of the power so in normal situations it should still behave like any other TT but given the right conditions it will slide the tail with the best of them.

Now if Audi can set the normal bias of the system predominately to the rear it should make the TT/R truly something special. It's weight over the nose is a lot less than any other RS Audi and unlike all of them it can also shift all of it's power to the rear.

I hate repeating myself but this will be something special among RS models. :thumb:

I don't think so.

I looked at the animation on the Haldex site. It's hard to tell from all the marketing-speak, but this will work just like regular Haldex. Only a little faster (continues oil pressure), and this time they use the Haldex principle to make the rear diff an active LSD.

But its still not full AWD. The Haldex is not connected to the engine. It's connected to the front drive shaft. It gets its power from the front drive shaft, so how could it have more power than the front drive shaft?

Only if the front wheels are slipping, and for some reason the rear wheels aren't, will it be RWD.

[Leadfoot]

I don't think so.

I looked at the animation on the Haldex site. It's hard to tell from all the marketing-speak, but this will work just like regular Haldex. Only a little faster (continues oil pressure), and this time they use the Haldex principle to make the rear diff an active LSD.

But its still not full AWD. The Haldex is not connected to the engine. It's connected to the front drive shaft. It gets its power from the front drive shaft, so how could it have more power than the front drive shaft?

Only if the front wheels are slipping, and for some reason the rear wheels aren't, will it be RWD.

I am not so sure, I understood how the older system worked but according to some info I received this new system has the rear wheels in action from the off. Now how much that means will be given to the rear wheels in normal use I don't know but it's definitely more than the old system had.

Another thing, this new version is meant to corner at a much greater speed than almost all other awd system, finding more grip along the way. Maybe that is why Audi are sticking with the system.

[PeterJohn]

The LSD function is no doubt a great improvement. And it will enable the rear to do more work. What I'm saying is that Haldex 4.0 is still a 2+2WD instead of an AWD. It's primairy function is still as a stability system, as opposed to a traction system. If you know what I mean. Less about putting the power down, and more about keeping the nose of the car in line with the position of the steering wheel.

Theoretically, you can get 50/50. But then there's no room left for a differential function. You'll have great traction off the line, but you'll understeer through the first corner straight into the scenery.
And Haldex works fast enough to get to 50/50 if it is really needed. One of those rediculous (in a good way) HPA/HGP tuned cars can put hypercar power down without much drama.

I used to be very much against the "fake AWD" Haldex system. But I think it has proven its worth many times. I've resolved my issue with the "FWD quattro". It's a great package. And if you still want RWD or full AWD, there are many other cars to chose from.

[The Pretender]

The TT RS/Torsen story look like more then a rumour.
New info say that Quattro GmbH had to develop a new gearbox.
I can't elaborate to much about it but in simple words it say:
VR5 TFSI/Haldex or Inline 5 TFSI/Torsen. (new manual gearbox)

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

The TT RS/Torsen story look like more then a rumour.
New info say that Quattro GmbH had to develop a new gearbox.
I can't elaborate to much about it but in simple words it say:
VR5 TFSI/Haldex or Inline 5 TFSI/Torsen. (new manual gearbox)

Jarod.

It's this uncertainty about the finished engine that has everyone second guessing. :looking:

P.S.

I would love it to be the inline 5 cyl because of the link to Audi's heritage, I guess only time will tell which it's to be. ;)

[SigmaS6]

VR5 TFSI/Haldex or Inline 5 TFSI/Torsen. (new manual gearbox)

But why a new manual gearbox? Did the old one have a design limit below the RS torque or did they have to make it smaller to fit with e.g. an I5? And, most importantly for me: what does all that mean for those in favour of an DSG-version of the RS?

[Leadfoot]

The LSD function is no doubt a great improvement. And it will enable the rear to do more work. What I'm saying is that Haldex 4.0 is still a 2+2WD instead of an AWD. It's primairy function is still as a stability system, as opposed to a traction system. If you know what I mean. Less about putting the power down, and more about keeping the nose of the car in line with the position of the steering wheel.

I'm not totally sure this opinion or explanation is 100% correct, I read things differently it says the power can shift 100% front or rear, not the 2+2WD that you are saying.


Theoretically, you can get 50/50. But then there's no room left for a differential function. You'll have great traction off the line, but you'll understeer through the first corner straight into the scenery.
And Haldex works fast enough to get to 50/50 if it is really needed. One of those rediculous (in a good way) HPA/HGP tuned cars can put hypercar power down without much drama.

Not meaning to be rude but that statement is the sort one expects from a rwd BMW driver. The advantage of Haldex is the limited drivetrain loss compared to normal systems. The one thing I will agree with is the lack of drama in it's driving style, Haldex is to efficient for it's own good.


I used to be very much against the "fake AWD" Haldex system. But I think it has proven its worth many times. I've resolved my issue with the "FWD quattro". It's a great package. And if you still want RWD or full AWD, there are many other cars to chose from.

The very nature of awd will almost always be less exciting compared to rwd, the only way for this to be different is to have an awd system which gives almost all of it's power to the rear and can only send a small percentage forward to stabilize the oversteer and aid traction exiting corners. These systems are great for cars more designed for spirited driving (sportscars/supercars) but such a system maybe more problematic for a normal driver.

[trick]

AFAIK the TTS has haldex 4.0 without the LSD add-on to make it XWD.

Getting the back out as seen in the Driver's Republic video takes some effort but is fun and controllable - the ESP in the TTS does allow an element of drift. It took me ages to stop smiling after I discovered that ;)

Question for PeterJohn : if the Haldex was unable to get more than 50% down to the rear, would drifting / oversteer like this be possible at all on normal road conditions?

[PeterJohn]

@Trick: With lift off oversteer you can make even a FWD swing around its rear end. If the ECU allows, you can then step on the gas and powerslide a Haldex car. The car then powerslides by virtue of dynamic weight distribution, as opposed to power distribution.

@Leadfoot: The press release is confusing. But I think they mean a traction/torque bias, not a power bias to the rear. The text and the animation stipulate that the front wheels are on ice as this happens. In this situation indeed the rear can generate more torque. But that's a matter of grip, not power bias.
In the ice-patch-less animation, the power bias only goes up to 50/50 (25% per wheel in the animation), as you would expect from Haldex. Making the ice-patch a prerequisite for rear torque bias.

IF the Haldex is fully engaged at 50/50, then it WILL understeer. Because it would act like a solid link, offering no differential function. The rear tyres would simply push the front wheels ahead of them. This is not the case with a full AWD, because at 50/50 it is still capable of differential function.

I think you misinterprited the spirit of my post. I was defending Haldex against those who desperately want it to have more rear power bias. When I say that FWD Haldex can put down huge power numbers without drama, I mean that in a positive way. Haldex doesn't function with a rear bias, nor does it need it.

[Leadfoot]

I would like agree with this opinion but I have a small problem with what you are saying, I owned a TT some years ago and I remember that I could plant the throttle from a stand still with some lock on the steering and get the tail to do full power slides. Now there was no lift off throttle causing this, it was purely the power being killed at the front and only decent amounts going to the rears.

I also took the same car to the track and on moderate corners the tail could be brought into play in much the same way as any awd car which doesn't give almost all of the power to the rear (Gallardo, R8, GTR etc). If anything I found it easier to feel the power shifting to the rear in it any any of the torsen quattros I have owned since.

[SigmaS6]

The text and the animation stipulate that the front wheels are on ice as this happens.
That's what got me thinking as well when I first saw that animation, but then I wonder what's really left of Haldex4. Just the pressure box for the back? I thought someone wrote that the full XWD version had a second clutch at the front axle, separating the front wheels from the power train if needed so that more than 50% can go to the back. But if that's the case, why do they show the old ice scenario, where even the Haldex2 could bringt 100% grip to the back?

[The Pretender]

It's never possible to get more then 50% of the power to the rear with Haldex.
Just take a look at this picture and if you are not technical clueless you know why.

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Audi/TT-TT%20Roadster/TT%20%28a5%29/Coupe%20-%20EU/Technical/092.jpg (http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Audi/TT-TT%20Roadster/TT%20%28a5%29/Coupe%20-%20EU/Technical/092.jpg)

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

Looking at the diagrams of Haldex AWD from the previous page and this one, there looks to be differences. Am I right in this observation?

[youry]

it looks we will not see the TT R(S) presented at the PAris show, since we hear nothing about it any longer........

not good news.........

when will this think be presented, and before or after the RS5....

[BigRick]

It's never possible to get more then 50% of the power to the rear with Haldex.
Just take a look at this picture and if you are not technical clueless you know why.

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Audi/TT-TT%20Roadster/TT%20%28a5%29/Coupe%20-%20EU/Technical/092.jpg (http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Audi/TT-TT%20Roadster/TT%20%28a5%29/Coupe%20-%20EU/Technical/092.jpg)

Jarod.

I must be technically clueless :vhmmm:

But you're welcome to teach me/us (as I doubt I'm the only clueless here)! That could be very informative as most of this thread as been since its start.

[trick]

He's pointing out that the rear wheels are driven from one of the drive shafts (on the bottom right in the pic) and that there is no clutch or similar mechanism (other than the differential) to control power distribution at the front.

[The Pretender]

The power to rear comes from the right driveshaft, "NOT" from a central point like Torsen Quattro.
That mean there will never be more then 50% of the power availeble for transfer to the rear.

Jarod.

btw, The TT-RS will have it's debut @ Geneva 2009.

[tvrfan]

will the TT-RS have TQ sport diff.?

as all other future RS models??

[The Pretender]

will the TT-RS have TQ sport diff.?

as all other future RS models??
Not likely because it get transverse engine layout with the Haldex.
Al other RS models have longitudinal engine layout with Torsen.

Jarod.

[SigmaS6]

The power to rear comes from the right driveshaft
The question is how the DQ500 will look, as the DQ250 is not relevant for the RS. If they manage to put a clutch in front of the drive train (as mentioned on the Haldex4 webpage as well) that can decouple the front wheels all would be good, but I guess this would be too expensive for Audi so they rather stick with the 2+2WD.

[The Pretender]

There is a rumour about a new gearbox with Torsen diff floting around.
Don't know if that have any truth to it.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

Jarod,

I looked on Haldex's own website and looked at the diagram you produced, to me there looks to be a difference between normal Haldex and Haldex XWD. Am I right in this?

The latter sounds like it can proportion more of the torque to the rear than the standard setup.

[The Pretender]

Jarod,

I looked on Haldex's own website and looked at the diagram you produced, to me there looks to be a difference between normal Haldex and Haldex XWD. Am I right in this?

The latter sounds like it can proportion more of the torque to the rear than the standard setup.
You can't compare Haldex XWD with the normal Haldex they are different systems.
Haldex XWD can transfer up to 85% to a single rear wheel depending where it's needed.

http://www.haldex-xwd.com (http://www.haldex-xwd.com/)

Jarod.

[artur777]

Jarod,

what system will be used in RS5? Haldex XWD?

[The Pretender]

Jarod,

what system will be used in RS5? Haldex XWD?
No, Torsen 3 with TVQ, it have in big line's the same outcome.
Haldex is used by transverse engine layout, exept in case of the Bugatti Veyron.

Jarod.

[trick]

According to the technical PDF on the Haldex-XWD site, Haldex XWD is just Haldex 4.0 with an (optional) electonically controlled LSD component in the rear diff.

[PeterJohn]

I must be technically clueless :vhmmm:

But you're welcome to teach me/us (as I doubt I'm the only clueless here)! That could be very informative as most of this thread as been since its start.

Do you see the axle on the bottom of the picture? On the right of this axle you can see part of another axle that connects to it at a 90° angle. This axle is what feeds the Haldex unit that controles the power to the rear.

It shows that the rear gets its power from the front axle. And that means that it is impossible that the rear has more power than the front, making rear-biased power with this type of AWD impossible.

50/50 bias is theoretically possible, but then you have no differential function (capability to turn at different speeds), which would result in massive understeer.

[BigRick]

Do you see the axle on the bottom of the picture? On the right of this axle you can see part of another axle that connects to it at a 90° angle. This axle is what feeds the Haldex unit that controles the power to the rear.

It shows that the rear gets its power from the front axle. And that means that it is impossible that the rear has more power than the front, making rear-biased power with this type of AWD impossible.

50/50 bias is theoretically possible, but then you have no differential function (capability to turn at different speeds), which would result in massive understeer.

Many thanks to Trick, The Pretender and yourself for clarifying. That's what they mean when they say the A3/S3 and TT are not real Audis (no offense to owners). They all use the Haldex system which can't really transfer much power to the rear. At the best they have 50/50 and most of the time it can be compared to a FWD.

Thanks again (I feel less technically clueless)

[Leadfoot]

According to the technical PDF on the Haldex-XWD site, Haldex XWD is just Haldex 4.0 with an (optional) electonically controlled LSD component in the rear diff.

I originally thought the same but after seeing the diagram of the actual system I am not so sure. This time round the system seems to be able to transfer a lot more torque to which ever wheel requires it, up to 85% to one wheel.

If true then it can be configured to what ever way you want it, meaning quicker transfer of power to the rear and more of it there more of the time if that makes it handle better.

[The Pretender]

XWD have two coupling's, and no Audi TT or A3 have two of them.
If you put your head under a TT-S you much see the front coupling if it was there.
The front coupling transfer power between front and rear. (the question is still how much % of the power) (i still think max 50%)
The amout of power that go's to the rear (% ?) and end up there can be transfer by the second coupling to either rear wheel up to 85%.
This "NOT" mean that there is 85% of the engine power on that rear wheel, "BUT" 85% of the power that is transfer to the rear, still max 50% IMHO.

Jarod.

[trick]

Wish it were so - but this is from that presentation on XWD. Looks like all previous generations at the front.

Anyone got a picture of Gen 3 at the front of a TT?

[The Pretender]

Wish it were so - but this is from that presentation on XWD. Looks like all previous generations at the front.

Anyone got a picture of Gen 3 at the front of a TT?
Thanks for that picture, you can clearly see the two couplings at the back.
One coupling is on the maine driveshaft and the second on the left rear driveshaft.
I tought that one coupling was in the front, but they are both in the back, my mistake.
If you take a look at it, you see that what i thought is truth.
The arrows at the front show the partitioning to left and right.
Then another arrow from the right driveshaft go to the rear, that means like the normal Haldex no more then 50% can go to the back.
By the old type's of Haldex the only coupling that was doing the power splitting from the front to rear was installed at the rear on the maine driveshaft and could only egally proportional the power to the right and left rear wheel.
Now the second coupling at the rear is installed on the left driveshaft and does de splitting up to 85% each way, right or left.
That means that Haldex XWD is able (over normal haldex) to partitioning the 50% of the transfered power to the rear split to right and left up to 85%.
Where the Normal Haldex only could split it egally to the right and rear.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

Now we have this cleared up can some explain why in their animation diagram does it show 85% going to one wheel and 5% going to each of the others, surely this should read 25% to each of the fronts and then 42.5% going to one of the rears while the other receives 7.5%.

What they are showing is a bit misleading. :nono:

Now I have got that off my chest, do we know if Audi will be using Haldex-XWD or not and if so what can we expect. I know I have passed the comments I was told some time ago about the TT/RS will be the RS model to watch but I am struggling to believe this can be so if the system can't shift more than 50% to the rear.

[The Pretender]

This picture show that the hole Haldex system is at the rear.
In that case it's not a problem to install it on the TT RS or every other transverse engined Audi in the future.
Max 50% of the power go's to the rear and max 85% of the 50% of power can be split up to each way, left or right.
I would improve the driveability a lot, especially at the rear.

Jarod.

[trick]

Less than 2 hours after my last post and that slide's already been posted on TTF :D

[The Pretender]

Less than 2 hours after my last post and that slide's already been posted on TTF :D
Internet make the world very small.

Jarod.

[SigmaS6]

Wish it were so - but this is from that presentation on XWD.
Hm, from the looks of that pic it seems to be made more with the average housewife's compact car in mind than an RS :eye:

I know this wont happen, but Audi should think a bit more in this direction (http://press.nissan-global.com/NISSANGTR/IMG/CARS/HIGH/other_010.jpg) for the RS ;)

[The Pretender]

I know this wont happen, but Audi should think a bit more in this direction (http://press.nissan-global.com/NISSANGTR/IMG/CARS/HIGH/other_010.jpg) for the RS ;)
That is a very heavy 4WD system with two longitudinal driveshaft's.
If Audi put the new 3.0TFSI Supercharged S4 longitudinal drivetrain in the TT body you will have a killer RS.
But that probably wont happen either.

Jarod.

[PeterJohn]

Now we have this cleared up can some explain why in their animation diagram does it show 85% going to one wheel and 5% going to each of the others, surely this should read 25% to each of the fronts and then 42.5% going to one of the rears while the other receives 7.5%.


Depends on how you measure the power. If you measure the power being put down by the wheels, and if those front wheels are on ice, then indeed the rear is putting down more power.

85% of "traction" is going to that rear wheel.

I think...

[Leadfoot]

Depends on how you measure the power. If you measure the power being put down by the wheels, and if those front wheels are on ice, then indeed the rear is putting down more power.

85% of "traction" is going to that rear wheel.

I think...

If true then they should explain this better on their web site.

[The Pretender]

If true then they should explain this better on their web site.
Haldex is not very clear on fact's are they, a lot of loose ends.

Jarod.

[PeterJohn]

Still, the active LSD is a feature with a lot of potential. It will be interesting to see what it can do for cars that use Haldex (or similar) on the front axle, such as the Carrera 4 models, Lamborghini, R8,... With proper programming, Haldex 4 could provide a Mitsubushi Evo/Nissan GTR level of controle.

[Leadfoot]

Still, the active LSD is a feature with a lot of potential. It will be interesting to see what it can do for cars that use Haldex (or similar) on the front axle, such as the Carrera 4 models, Lamborghini, R8,... With proper programming, Haldex 4 could provide a Mitsubushi Evo/Nissan GTR level of controle.

I stand by what I was originally told and that was that the TT/RS will not be Torsen but will be Haldex. I can't believe that Audi won't use the most up to date version of that so Haldex-XWD is a must.

Whether Audi can engineer some oversteer/throttle control into the system has to be seen yet but I think incredible grip and a reassuring chassis is a cert.

[trick]

Maybe they'll go the GT2 route and remove the front wheel drive (+ haldex) alltogether.

[SigmaS6]

The problem is that they have no parts for this platform that could be used then and if they have to construct something new they better make it a real AWD, it's probably the same effort ;)

[trick]

I dunno, just remove the front prop-shafts and diff, replace the haldex at the back with a simple quaife LSD, dial down the power assistance on the steering and you're most of the way there! ;)

[Leadfoot]

I dunno, just remove the front prop-shafts and diff, replace the haldex at the back with a simple quaife LSD, dial down the power assistance on the steering and you're most of the way there! ;)

Though I see where you are coming from such a setup would never happen, Audi and Quattro are one in the same, when you mention hi-performance Audi you associate Quattro with that type of a product.

If it didn't have a awd system connected to it then you may as well brand it something else.

No, the TT/RS will be quattro, it will be Haldex but it will perform way better than the already highly acclaimed TT/S.

[The Pretender]

The real TT RS.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/audi-tt-rs-futur.html

Jarod.

[Ti-Mike]

Porsche has put a stop to the project at this time.......lets see how it will continue

[Mockenrue]

Grrr, this will NOT do. :nana: If Audi have the technological know-how and expertise to make ground breaking new cars they should be given free rein to do so. What are Porsche afraid of - did the R8 ruffle their feathers that much? I like their cars but I'm going to start having a sense of humour failure now every time I see one on the road. :w:

[Leadfoot]

Grrr, this will NOT do. :nana: If Audi have the technological know-how and expertise to make ground breaking new cars they should be given free rein to do so. What are Porsche afraid of - did the R8 ruffle their feathers that much? I like their cars but I'm going to start having a sense of humour failure now every time I see one on the road. :w:

In the UK alone the 997 sales are down over 20%, some reckon it's the economy but other believe it's cars like the R8 that are the cause. ;)

In reality the 911 is past it's sell by date and should be demoted from the top of the Porsche line-up.

[BigRick]

I've never been a great fan of Porsche all together but news like this one makes me feel a bit angry. Looks like they're feeling that they're loosing their king of the hill position and instead of making better cars they are trying to stop the competition. Strange how they can produce the Boxter and Cayman (introducing competition somewhere they where not interrested before) and now they stop projects that could hurt them in those exact areas...

I hope this is just a "rumor" and nothing else and that competition between car makers will be back as this always makes the customer the ultimate winner.

[M3 owner]

In the UK alone the 997 sales are down over 20%, some reckon it's the economy but other believe it's cars like the R8 that are the cause. ;)


Or maybe it's due to the end of the current 997 ?? They will probably post record sales once the 997.2 is available.

[The Pretender]

http://www.automobile-magazine.fr/var/automobile_magazine/storage/images/media/galeries/photos/audi/les_audi_du_futur/ttr_schulte/436417-1-fre-FR/ttr_schulte_image_photo_leader.jpg

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

http://news.automedia.bg/images/news/body/auttrs20_48b3f1c4ab49d.jpg

http://news.automedia.bg/images/news/body/auttrs25_48b3f1c4e9c96.jpg

http://news.automedia.bg/images/news/body/auttrs50_48b3f1c5a3784.jpg

Jarod.

(http://news.automedia.bg/images/news/body/auttrs20_48b3f1c4ab49d.jpg)

[The Pretender]

http://img.auto.cz/autofun_cz/img/galleries/auttrs03_48b3f1c48cfde.jpg

http://img.auto.cz/autofun_cz/img/galleries/auttrs20_48b3f1c4ab49d.jpg

http://img.auto.cz/autofun_cz/img/galleries/auttrs21_48b3f1c4c9985.jpg

http://img.auto.cz/autofun_cz/img/galleries/auttrs25_48b3f1c4e9c96.jpg

http://img.auto.cz/autofun_cz/img/galleries/auttrs26_48b3f1c514a6c.jpg

http://img.auto.cz/autofun_cz/img/galleries/auttrs35_48b3f1c530f83.jpg

http://img.auto.cz/autofun_cz/img/galleries/auttrs40_48b3f1c54d4a4.jpg

http://img.auto.cz/autofun_cz/img/galleries/auttrs45_48b3f1c57f94c.jpg

http://img.auto.cz/autofun_cz/img/galleries/auttrs50_48b3f1c5a3784.jpg :wink:

Source : autofun.cz

Jarod.

[Mockenrue]

Nice one Jarod. :ttaddict::thumb:

[Leadfoot]

http://www.automobile-magazine.fr/var/automobile_magazine/storage/images/media/galeries/photos/audi/les_audi_du_futur/ttr_schulte/436417-1-fre-FR/ttr_schulte_image_photo_leader.jpg

Jarod.

Now I like this look.

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:
LOADS
:love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2:

P.S.
For a car which has had it's project put on hold you are still wasting a lot of time doing photoshops of. ;)

[The Pretender]

Now I like this look.

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:
LOADS
:love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love2:

P.S.
For a car which has had it's project put on hold you are still wasting a lot of time doing photoshops of. ;)

btw, i,m not saying that, info say that.

http://www.audiblog.nl/wp-content/tt-rs.jpg
Shop based on the black TT RS test mule.

http://www.audiblog.nl/wp-content/ttrs-3.jpg

Jarod.

[Rage]

Been away for a while and have been trying to catch up with recent threads (blame the Artega Gt/Cayman FL/Lotus Evora...). That TTRS in ?avus silver looks pretty amazing.

So is the TTRS coming or not? Have Porsche stopped the project?

Thanks in advance.

[The Pretender]

Info that's floting around say they stopped the engine project.
My info say Audi stopped with the VR5 turbo project after some new technical development on the inline five engine, that make it possible to fit.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

in these spyshots its manual =(. will be there no S-Tronic???

[The Pretender]

in these spyshots its manual =(. will be there no S-Tronic???
Not likely.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

that sucks, audi should introduce the new 7 speed s-tronic in the final TT-RS. in my opinion there is no better gearbox for that car. it would have serious good handling and superb acceleration numbers for sure. dont get me wrong, i like manual transmission but in that point i would love to see a S-Tronic.

[SigmaS6]

Well most of the articles I read on the RS recently still say the DSG will be available, so I guess this alone will put some pressure on Audi to introduce it. Imo it would be hard to justify dropping such a feature, if other vendors like Porsche (PDK) or BMW (DCT) recently put it in the most sporty models and advertise that as a great new feature.

I could imagine that offering the RS as manual only would not make it look like a hardcore sports car but more like a scheduling issue with Audis R&D.

[tvrfan]

what means "R&D"???

[The RS6]

what means "R&D"???

Research and Development

[Leadfoot]

I know Jarod doubts we will see a S/Tronic in the TT/RS if it comes but I reckon it's a cert. It might not be there at launch (2009) if the project is still on that is, but if things are delayed and the TT/RS doesn't arrive until sometime in 2010/11 then I would expect it to be there from launch.

Tell me, which would you prefer, a TT/RS with a manual soon or a TT/RS with S/Tronic in two or three years time?

[SigmaS6]

A TT-RS with DSG in 2009 ;)

To be honest, I expect from a company like Audi that they have the resources to create a DSG within 2 years. We're not talking about rocket science here, they know how it works (it was introduced in the Golf in 2002!) and the first specs of the DQ500 appeared soon after the TT was released, so they had plenty of time to get it right.

If they'd release it by 2011 I don't think there will be much demand left, most people who don't mind a manual will already have that car and the rest might not be so keen on getting a car that'll be replaced by the R4 or even the next TT in the (by then) near future. So I guess if they don't bring it at launch they can completely skip it for the RS.

And then you begin to wonder what other car of the transversal platform could benefit from a development of a 550nm DSG at all, so whoever is coordinating this project should have it's company internal, only customer in mind ;)

[The Pretender]

You can see that Audi (VW) choose the easy way out, instead of making a stronger (500+ Nm) DSG/S-Tronic they limited the torque of the S3 and TT-S, VW does the same with the Passat R36. (during gear changes)
In that way the present DSG can handle the torque. (max 350 Nm)
Why make a stronger DSG if you can solve the problem with torque limiting.

The only problem is that this can't be the case with the RS.

@ Leadfoot, i prefer a manual gearbox anyway, don't like autoboxes one bit.
and yes the DSG/S-Tronic is a autobox no matter from witch way you look at it.
Real drivers use a manual gearbox, every one else let the car do all the work.

Jarod.

[trick]

You can see that Audi (VW) choose the easy way out, instead of making a stronger (500+ Nm) DSG/S-Tronic they limited the torque of the S3 and TT-S, VW does the same with the Passat R36. (during gear changes)
In that way the present DSG can handle the torque. (max 350 Nm)
Why make a stronger DSG if you can solve the problem with torque limiting.

The only problem is that this can't be the case with the RS.

@ Leadfoot, i prefer a manual gearbox anyway, don't like autoboxes one bit.
and yes the DSG/S-Tronic is a autobox no matter from witch way you look at it.
Real drivers use a manual gearbox, every one else let the car do all the work.

Jarod.


Real drivers like F1 & WRC drivers you mean?

Getting the most out of DSG just requires a different skill set to getting the most out of manual, that's all.

[SigmaS6]

instead of making a stronger (500+ Nm) DSG/S-Tronic they limited the torque[...]
The only problem is that this can't be the case with the RS.

I don't think it's a problem, it's actually the only guarantee we have that they wont have to come up with any artificial engine limit caused by the gear box.



Real drivers use a manual gearbox, every one else let the car do all the work.

Well call me a sissy, but I'd like to join the Porsche PDK, BMW M3 DCT, Nissan GT-R and Bugatti Veyron drivers on this one :)

[The Pretender]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/audi-tt-rs-011.jpg

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/audi-tt-rs-014.jpg

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/audi-tt-rs-012.jpg

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/audi-tt-rs-013.jpg

Source : caradvice.com.au

Jarod.

[BigRick]

I might change my mind once I've seen one in real life but for now the look doesn't cut it for me.

Bad rear, brings back memories of the C5 A6 rear which was horrid
bad front grill (looks lost on that looooong nose)

It looks "pale" compared to the older one I've seen at the dealer...

But as we all know pictures are never giving full credit to cars so I'll wait and see in person (if it ever gets here)

[The Pretender]

But as we all know pictures are never giving full credit to cars so I'll wait and see in person (if it ever gets here)
No they don't do credit to cars.
The new TT-S is awesome in real life with that new style frontbumper.

Jarod.

[JavierNuvolari]

That TT looks fat.

[roadrunner]

No they don't do credit to cars.
The new TT-S is awesome in real life with that new style frontbumper.

Jarod.

Could not agree more. Seeing 1st pics of the TTS - I was not overwelmed, to say the least.

But after seeing this one in Ingolstadt - would be my dream combo
http://www.rs6.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7037&d=1220433842
http://www.rs6.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7036&d=1220433842

Now the same with the TTRS - 1st pics :vhmmm:

Now this one - me likeee :bow:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/audi-tt-rs-011.jpg

[The Pretender]

The TT-RS will have 3 bar's in the side vent's, where the TT-S have 4 bar's.

A bit the same with the R8 V8 and V10 3 for the V8, 2 for the V10.

Jarod.