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EKaru
March 23rd, 2008, 18:46
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/comparison/2008/bmw.m3.coupe/08.comparo.m3.vs.s5.group.2.500.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=125265#2

BALIKOTI
March 23rd, 2008, 19:18
BS test! Probably paid for. As they expected, its just wrong comparing M3 to S5! Why not compare 330i to RS4?

Rutkowsky
March 23rd, 2008, 19:31
BS test! Probably paid for. As they expected, its just wrong comparing M3 to S5! Why not compare 330i to RS4?

I second that!

pampas
March 23rd, 2008, 19:59
"
On Paper, it seems like a far fight
Speed-reading the specifications sheets of these two cars, they seem like natural rivals: the 354-hp, all-wheel-drive 2008 Audi S5 measured against the 414-hp, rear-wheel-drive 2008 BMW M3."

Who ever wrote the article is crazy. Since when a 354hp engine equals a 414hp engine???? That is so stupid, I can't even believe I am reading it on Edmunds. So, a less than 265hp car (354 minus 25% drive train loss) should be right on par with a 351hp car (414 minus 15% drive train loss).

What exactly seems like a "fair fight on paper"?? Reading just the title, I said they are talking about $$$, the S5 fully loaded looks quite close to an M3 not so loaded, but even so, a fully loaded M3 goes for 70k, still about $10-12k difference. But no, they are actually talking about performance as being a fair fight.


"Until we had turned a camshaft in the 2008 BMW M3's V8, we had thought Audi's 4.2-liter V8 was about as good as it gets. With its snarling, multi-octave vocal range, its broad power band and its rev-happy personality up to the 7,000-rpm redline, how much better could a V8 be than this?"
They make it sound like they never heard about the 420hp 4.2 V8 from RS4, altough the writer said previously they also tested the RS4 (in the past of course). How can a 354V8 from Audi be the best when Audi also has the 4.2 high revving V8??

The whole article is a mess :)

?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

EKaru
March 23rd, 2008, 20:54
Audi intends their S4 & S5, to compete with the 335i as well the M3.. The same goes for the S6 against the 550i and M5. This is why auto publications have compared the S5 against both the 335i and M3... I'm sure people shopping for either a 335i or M3 will cross shop with the S5 as well being that it sits pretty much right between the two price wise...
Eric...

iLoveRWD
March 23rd, 2008, 22:02
Excellent review! :)

But I wish they would have done a 335 vs S5 instead. :hahahehe:

pampas
March 23rd, 2008, 22:22
Excellent review! :)

But I wish they would have done a 335 vs S5 instead. :hahahehe:

Excelent? Did you NOT read the crazy stuff they write in the article? Did you not see the way they contradict themself?

Recover yourself, there is no denial the M3 is better at performance than the S5, it's about how they write it, with all the stupid things there ... If you think it's a fair game (specs wise) to compare this 2 cars, you are plain wrong.

raulg
March 23rd, 2008, 22:24
Excellent review! :)

But I wish they would have done a 335 vs S5 instead. :hahahehe:

Faci exact ca si idiotzii pe care TU ii injuri atata pe forumuri. Eu scriu ceva si tu comentezi complet pe linga, fara sa aduci argumente la ce am scris eu. Daca e gluma, ti-am zis, pune o gluma, daca nu .. incepi sa ma enervezi cu chestiile astea.

pampas
March 23rd, 2008, 22:51
"This S5 rarely puts a wheel wrong, but one drive in the M3 reveals they're playing in entirely different leagues. I'll take the ugly orange from the M Division with no options, making it the same price as the curvaceous Audi apple."

Go for it. You'll have a plain car, the same luxury as in a subaru/evo, with a little better performance. Do they offer ABS as standard? Only asking, cause from the $54k the M3 starts, to the $70k++, it's a big gap. I would rather pay $70k for the M3 than live without leather, navigation, and all the good stuff, but not everyone is the same :)

BALIKOTI
March 23rd, 2008, 23:31
"This S5 rarely puts a wheel wrong, but one drive in the M3 reveals they're playing in entirely different leagues. I'll take the ugly orange from the M Division with no options, making it the same price as the curvaceous Audi apple."

Go for it. You'll have a plain car, the same luxury as in a subaru/evo, with a little better performance. Do they offer ABS as standard? Only asking, cause from the $54k the M3 starts, to the $70k++, it's a big gap. I would rather pay $70k for the M3 than live without leather, navigation, and all the good stuff, but not everyone is the same :)

+1000!!!

iLoveRWD
March 23rd, 2008, 23:43
Faci exact ca si idiotzii pe care TU ii injuri atata pe forumuri. Eu scriu ceva si tu comentezi complet pe linga, fara sa aduci argumente la ce am scris eu. Daca e gluma, ti-am zis, pune o gluma, daca nu .. incepi sa ma enervezi cu chestiile astea.

lol
de ce sa aduc argumente la ce zici tu? ce am zis eu nu are legatura cu tine sau cu ce ai comentat tu. asta e parerea mea: "Excelent review"

And why are you so frustrated everytime Audi loses in a magazine comparison? Why is it so important to you what a magazine has to say?
You have not driven the M3 and you have not driven the S5. So it's fair to say that you don't know much about either one.
and relax, it's just a car test. it's not like your life depends on it. :doh:

iLoveRWD
March 23rd, 2008, 23:55
"This S5 rarely puts a wheel wrong, but one drive in the M3 reveals they're playing in entirely different leagues. I'll take the ugly orange from the M Division with no options, making it the same price as the curvaceous Audi apple."

Go for it. You'll have a plain car, the same luxury as in a subaru/evo, with a little better performance. Do they offer ABS as standard? Only asking, cause from the $54k the M3 starts, to the $70k++, it's a big gap. I would rather pay $70k for the M3 than live without leather, navigation, and all the good stuff, but not everyone is the same :)

"a little better performance"? Are you serious? There is no comparison between an M3 and S5. No comparison. S5 should be compared with 335. :hahahehe: and a fully loaded S5 costs 59k at the dealership. :nono:

If you want to talk about "a little better performance" then let's look at R8 vs M3. :)

Just look at all the track times and quarter mile times...they are VERY close and the R8 costs twice as much. :hihi:

Audifan92
March 24th, 2008, 00:53
They say the RS4 has a harsh ride....
I don't believe so...

pampas
March 24th, 2008, 01:22
"a little better performance"? Are you serious? There is no comparison between an M3 and S5. No comparison. S5 should be compared with 335. :hahahehe: and a fully loaded S5 costs 59k at the dealership. :nono:

If you want to talk about "a little better performance" then let's look at R8 vs M3. :)

Just look at all the track times and quarter mile times...they are VERY close and the R8 costs twice as much. :hihi:


Haha, I was comparing the plain M3 against the last Evo/Subaru: cloth interior, cheap and not tastefully designed (at all), little harsh ride (as this review says) and indeed, the M3 has a little better performance than the last generation Evo. But, still... a much higher price than the 30k for an evo :)

Do not try to go the R8 way, there is NO car BMW has that can even touch the R8. Please read any review, I will gladly send you some links. R8 is a winner, and every time the discussion came to BMW (in those reviews) they clearly said the M3 is far away. Please look at the whole car, not just the part you wanna see. From my point of view, even the S5 is a more complete car than the M3, since the little performance you gain in the M3 you will loose in the rain, wet, interior(!) and exterior look, and so on.

A fully M3 goes for 70k, where a full S5 goes for 58k (seen it myself at my dealership, final price tag after all stuff added to the base price: you know, the BIGGER number at the bottom of the page.

Even on this test, the S5 is 57k, where the M3 was almost 66k and that is WITHOUT a navigation unit. You know I would never buy a car with no navi on it. So, I am reviewing the cars from my point of view, of course. M3 goes hand in hand with performance and price with the RS4, where I am not at all ashamed by Audi.

I agree with you the S5 should be compared to the 335i, but YOU SAID this is an excelent review(!), not me(think about it, before saying something stupid again).

BTW, I did test drive the S5, and you should know since I told you that. I will never choose a RWD when I can have a proper quattro car.

pampas
March 24th, 2008, 01:24
They say the RS4 has a harsh ride....
I don't believe so...

Don't worry, the same people tested the RS4 against the M5 and the RS4 won. As they said, the little performance the M5 has over the RS4 has nothing to do when you choose your daily car.

Well, I never liked Edmunds, they always compare cars they should NOT. Like the A4 2.0T agains the 330i, when there was a 325i available.

Audifan92
March 24th, 2008, 01:38
Don't worry, the same people tested the RS4 against the M5 and the RS4 won. As they said, the little performance the M5 has over the RS4 has nothing to do when you choose your daily car.

Well, I never liked Edmunds, they always compare cars they should NOT. Like the A4 2.0T agains the 330i, when there was a 325i available.


Yeah, true
I remember both those comparisons...
The only good comparison they did was the RS4 vs IS-F

iLoveRWD
March 24th, 2008, 01:55
Haha, I was comparing the plain M3 against the last Evo/Subaru: cloth interior, cheap and not tastefully designed (at all), little harsh ride (as this review says) and indeed, the M3 has a little better performance than the last generation Evo. But, still... a much higher price than the 30k for an evo :)

Do not try to go the R8 way, there is NO car BMW has that can even touch the R8. Please read any review, I will gladly send you some links. R8 is a winner, and every time the discussion came to BMW (in those reviews) they clearly said the M3 is far away. Please look at the whole car, not just the part you wanna see. From my point of view, even the S5 is a more complete car than the M3, since the little performance you gain in the M3 you will loose in the rain, wet, interior(!) and exterior look, and so on.

A fully M3 goes for 70k, where a full S5 goes for 58k (seen it myself at my dealership, final price tag after all stuff added to the base price: you know, the BIGGER number at the bottom of the page.

Even on this test, the S5 is 57k, where the M3 was almost 66k and that is WITHOUT a navigation unit. You know I would never buy a car with no navi on it. So, I am reviewing the cars from my point of view, of course. M3 goes hand in hand with performance and price with the RS4, where I am not at all ashamed by Audi.

I agree with you the S5 should be compared to the 335i, but YOU SAID this is an excelent review(!), not me(think about it, before saying something stupid again).

BTW, I did test drive the S5, and you should know since I told you that. I will never choose a RWD when I can have a proper quattro car.

How is quattro "proper" when it can't even beat a 335 that doesn't even have an LSD (S5 $58k vs 335 $52k).
I think it's pretty sad that Audi with the awesome quattro, needed to make a car that costs 130k to be 1% faster than a M3.
I would take an M3 over an R8 any day. Thats just my opinion.

And lets not talk about BMW and Audi anymore, because not matter what Audi is better than everything on the planet and all the magazines are stupid because BMW made a better car than the S5/RS4.

pampas
March 24th, 2008, 02:04
How is quattro "proper" when it can't even beat a 335 that doesn't even have an LSD (S5 $58k vs 335 $52k).
I think it's pretty sad that Audi with the awesome quattro, needed to make a car that costs 130k to be 1% faster than a M3.
I would take an M3 over an R8 any day. Thats just my opinion.

And lets not talk about BMW and Audi anymore, because not matter what Audi is better than everything on the planet and all the magazines are stupid because BMW made a better car than the S5/RS4.

You are being a little blind there, but hey, you have the right to do so, it's your problem what u like.

I just know BMW has nothing against the R8, nothing even closer.If reviewers are choosing the R8 as the better OVERALL car when the M3 is 50% cheaper you imagine how close the M3 is. Right? I don't have to spell it out for you, I hope. Let me do it anyway: if the R8 would sell for same price as the M3 than you realize how many times over they would choose the R8 over the M3???
Anyway, an exotic compared to the M3? What do you think your M3 is?? Why don't you say the M3 is even better than some Ferraris, or Aston Martin s? It might be faster on some tests, like 1/4m, so ... it's better ... yeah, right :)

Audifan92
March 24th, 2008, 02:39
You are being a little blind there, but hey, you have the right to do so, it's your problem what u like.

I just know BMW has nothing against the R8, nothing even closer.If reviewers are choosing the R8 as the better OVERALL car when the M3 is 50% cheaper you imagine how close the M3 is. Right? I don't have to spell it out for you, I hope. Let me do it anyway: if the R8 would sell for same price as the M3 than you realize how many times over they would choose the R8 over the M3???
Anyway, an exotic compared to the M3? What do you think your M3 is?? Why don't you say the M3 is even better than some Ferraris, or Aston Martin s? It might be faster on some tests, like 1/4m, so ... it's better ... yeah, right :)

Very well said.

artur777
March 24th, 2008, 09:59
You are being a little blind there, but hey, you have the right to do so, it's your problem what u like.

I just know BMW has nothing against the R8, nothing even closer.If reviewers are choosing the R8 as the better OVERALL car when the M3 is 50% cheaper you imagine how close the M3 is. Right? I don't have to spell it out for you, I hope. Let me do it anyway: if the R8 would sell for same price as the M3 than you realize how many times over they would choose the R8 over the M3???
Anyway, an exotic compared to the M3? What do you think your M3 is?? Why don't you say the M3 is even better than some Ferraris, or Aston Martin s? It might be faster on some tests, like 1/4m, so ... it's better ... yeah, right :)

Though you sound rather reasonable, I should mention that my own impressions from S5 and M3 tell me that M3 is a better choice.

S5 is a little bit dull and not involving. It still understeers.
I admit it's interior quality, but I personally go for driveablilty and handling.
I hope that SportDiff will improve as well as DSG.
And BTW, I personally wait for RS5 car - that will be hell of a car.
S5 is in the middle of nowhere.
Too expensive for usual A5, too weak for real performers.

So we will see RS5 next year - surely it will be as goodas new M3.
And I agree that S5 shouldn;t be compared with M3 - it should be compared to 335i.

Rutkowsky
March 24th, 2008, 14:11
You are being a little blind there, but hey, you have the right to do so, it's your problem what u like.

I just know BMW has nothing against the R8, nothing even closer.If reviewers are choosing the R8 as the better OVERALL car when the M3 is 50% cheaper you imagine how close the M3 is. Right? I don't have to spell it out for you, I hope. Let me do it anyway: if the R8 would sell for same price as the M3 than you realize how many times over they would choose the R8 over the M3???
Anyway, an exotic compared to the M3? What do you think your M3 is?? Why don't you say the M3 is even better than some Ferraris, or Aston Martin s? It might be faster on some tests, like 1/4m, so ... it's better ... yeah, right :)

How about M6 vs R8? Since they are in almost the same price bracket (R8 still more expensive)
M6 every time for me :jlol:

Leadfoot
March 24th, 2008, 15:07
Though you sound rather reasonable, I should mention that my own impressions from S5 and M3 tell me that M3 is a better choice.

The S5 and M3 aren't direct competitors and Edmunds should know as much. Would you prefer a S4 to an RS4, of course not and it's the same comparing the S5 to the M3.


S5 is a little bit dull and not involving. It still understeers.
I admit it's interior quality, but I personally go for driveablilty and handling.
I hope that SportDiff will improve as well as DSG.
And BTW, I personally wait for RS5 car - that will be hell of a car.
S5 is in the middle of nowhere.
Too expensive for usual A5, too weak for real performers.

It's not as involving as the M3 but then again neither is the RS4, they are totally different and most if not all of this is down to the fact that one is awd and the other is not. I do believe Quattro3 will make a big difference and should make the car a lot more involving but I hope the character of the breed doesn't change in the process.

I don't agree that the S5 is either too expensive compared to the rest of the range or that it's weak on performance. There is many BMW fans which class the new M3 over priced compared to the 335i yet the reality is that they performance character is totally different and that's as much the appeal as anything. The same goes for the S5 compared to the other A5, you are paying for the V8 sound, the looks, the extra presence as much as anything else.


So we will see RS5 next year - surely it will be as goodas new M3.
And I agree that S5 shouldn;t be compared with M3 - it should be compared to 335i.

I have been told (hinted) that the RS5 will be everything you and the rest of us are hoping for and that it's performance in every discipline will be better than the M3 or C63. Audi are the leading company with regards to performance, it started with the RS4, R8 and RS6 and will continue with the TT/RS and the RS5.


How about M6 vs R8? Since they are in almost the same price bracket (R8 still more expensive)
M6 every time for me :jlol:

Rutkowsky,

We may share the excitement of owning an M3 but differ completely when it comes to the M6 and R8, the M6 is the most over-hyped BMW ever to come from the factory, it's over priced compared to the M5, it's an under achiever when it comes to handling and it un-involving when compared to the R8.

The only area where the M6 excels is acceleration and top speed, but unless you spend your entire time on the motorway and intend to tackle other cars solely on an airfield then best steer clear of the M6 as it not for you.

pampas
March 24th, 2008, 22:24
How about M6 vs R8? Since they are in almost the same price bracket (R8 still more expensive)
M6 every time for me :jlol:

Since I plan on getting the R8 V10 asap, I guess we don't share the same opinion.
I am not gonna say I find the R8 V8 superior to the M6, you might not care about my own opinion, but (same answer as to IloveRWD) not one publication, review or test agrees with you there :)

I think M6 is a special BMW, it's a GT with a great engine, I think it's a nice looking car(probably the best in the BMW arsenal) but I never felt atracted to it. I think if I ever go for a 2-door/coupe I rather go all the way to the R8 than stick in the middle of the path at the M6/RS5. Both M6/RS5 have no rear space(seats yes, space not so much), so if I can't really use that why keep it? R8! On the other side, the next RS4 makes a lot of sence for me(because of the rear doors I INTEND/HAVE TO USE in at least one of my cars). It's just about preferences, that's my logic above for my own pocket and my family. I will never get an M6 but I totally respect the car. I would like to know someone that owns it, but I think I will just to race my friends R8, no M5/M6 around me.

EKaru
March 25th, 2008, 03:31
Since I plan on getting the R8 V10 asap, I guess we don't share the same opinion.
I am not gonna say I find the R8 V8 superior to the M6, you might not care about my own opinion, but (same answer as to IloveRWD) not one publication, review or test agrees with you there :)

I think M6 is a special BMW, it's a GT with a great engine, I think it's a nice looking car(probably the best in the BMW arsenal) but I never felt atracted to it. I think if I ever go for a 2-door/coupe I rather go all the way to the R8 than stick in the middle of the path at the M6/RS5. Both M6/RS5 have no rear space(seats yes, space not so much), so if I can't really use that why keep it? R8! On the other side, the next RS4 makes a lot of sence for me(because of the rear doors I INTEND/HAVE TO USE in at least one of my cars). It's just about preferences, that's my logic above for my own pocket and my family. I will never get an M6 but I totally respect the car. I would like to know someone that owns it, but I think I will just to race my friends R8, no M5/M6 around me.


After having driven my father's M6 extensively, I'll say that there's no way in hell that an M6 could hold a candle to the R8... The M6 weighs roughly 450 lbs more...
I was sold on the R8 after having driven one in the "Audi Driving Experience".... I'd recommend the same for the non-believers
Eric...

Leadfoot
March 25th, 2008, 15:51
EKaru,

You should spend your wisdom to our fellow BWM sites to see if you get a similar reaction. Somehow I doubt it.