Audi Future?

[tvrfan]

From Spiegel (german magazin)


11 march 08
"As soon as Porsche supplements its Volkswagen portions on a majority of 50 per cent, the clan from Zuffenhausen will stress altogether five mandates in the Wolfsburger control committee. Thus not enough: Also on the supervisory board of the valuable Volkswagen subsidiary AUDI it Porsche foresaw: Here Wiedeking and hardeners are over the model politics and mark positioning of the Ingolstaedter are in the future awake. With racing cars like the R8, which is well for the prestige, but rather bad for the net yield, it could be then rapidly past, is whispered."

from audi

12 march 08

"Ingolstadt - the influence of Porsche on the company nut/mother VOLKSWAGEN will not impair AUDI, chief executive said Rupert Stadler on Tuesday in Ingolstadt. "our success gives us liberties", stressed the manager, "we arises self-confidently." Porsche had announced past week to take over the majority at VOLKSWAGEN. VOLKSWAGEN again holds more than 99 per cent of the AUDI shares. Because of the entrance from Porsche, the natives of stuttgart could the further growth of AUDI had been speculated brake, in order to protect the own models competition. The assumption of VOLKSWAGEN by Porsche will become apparent however at least personnel already soon also with AUDI. So Wendelin Wiedeking and its finance executive committee Holger hardener are to draw Porsche boss in May into the supervisory board. Also Volkswagen supervisory board boss and Porsche joint owner Ferdinand Pieech want into the committee. The business of the Ingolstaedter runs approximately. Past year sold 964,000 cars, a plus of 6,5 per cent in the comparison to AUDI to the previous year. The conversion climbed around nearly eight per cent on 33.6 billion euro. For the Volkswagen company, which invited on Thursday to the yearly press conference, AUDI thereby was also 2007 the most important yield bead. Thus those contributed Bavaria scarcely a third to the company turnover of 109 billion euro, gained however with a profit of 2.7 billion euro nearly half of the Volkswagen result, which lay over six billion euro. But still is the Ingolstaedter not, where they want on a long-term basis. AUDI achieved with the result already 2007 its goal of an operational net yield of eight per cent, which had been originally focused only for 2010. The margin was enough nevertheless not completely at Stuttgart competitors the Mercedes near: Mercedes came on an operational margin of 9,1 per cent and wants the net yield until 2010 on ten per cent to increase. With the operational net yield it concerns the operating result before taxes in relation to the conversion. How near AUDI however already moved at Mercedes, a view of the results of the fourth quarter shows: There those were appropriate for Bavaria with 10,7 per cent even easily before Mercedes. The mark with the star created 10.4 per cent. The rival BMW, which submits its results for 2007 only in the coming week, only the third place remains in this running. The residents of Munich likewise planned until 2012 a net yield increase on eight to ten per cent. There was however not even six per cent last. AUDI wants to sell more than one million car in this year for the first time. The signs stand well to achieve the goal: "January and February ran really well", underlined Stadler. BMW set past year off 1.5 million vehicles, Mercedes 1.28 Millionen."

What do you think?

i think if porsche is going to takeover VW and then Audi, audi couldnt build more the cars (supercars, R8 successor....) they want and not the models with the power (hp) they want. it would be the death.

[The Pretender]

If Ferdinant Piech go back to Audi is a good thing.
In his past time with Audi he produced/introduced Quattro to Audi and also the inline 5 engine.
Maybe with some Porsche people in the board of directors, Audi will become more exclusive compare to VW and ditch some lesser models.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

some less models mean supercars that means no R8 successor.

[RXBG]

guys. wake up. it's over for audi as we know it. if your family owned a car co. with your name on it wouldn't it take precedence over any other you might acquire, marque be damned?

i don't think we'll see an R8 successor per se. maybe a pussy a$$ GT like the M6 but not a sports car. the next 911 will in essence be the next R8- porsche will abandon the rear engine.

get your R8 while you can.

[The RS6]

Maybe a silly question, but why doesn't Audi buy out themselves and become an independent manufacturer?

[The Pretender]

With Porsche @ the Audi helm and therefore @ the Lamborghini helm, i like to see what will happen with cars like the Audi R8 and Lamborghini's.

The R8 can't evolve into the next Porsche 998 (911) because they can't use a mid mounted flat six engine in combination with 4WD because the flat engine is in the way and make it almost impossible to get a drive shaft to the front.
I don't see Porsche change the next 911 to mid engine and drop the flat six engine's so they can still use 4WD.
And dropping the flat six is not a option at all for the next gen 911 IMHO.

Also like to see where Audi is heading motorsport wise in the future.
LeMans and DTM are the games they play now, factory wise.


Jarod.

[The Pretender]

Maybe a silly question, but why doesn't Audi buy out themselves and become an independent manufacturer?
Because Audi is the spider in the VAG web, and what is a web without a spider.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

The R8 can't evolve into the next Porsche 998 (911) because they can't use a mid mounted flat six engine in combination with 4WD because the flat engine is in the way and make it almost impossible to get a drive shaft to the front.
I don't see Porsche change the next 911 to mid engine and drop the flat six engine's so they can still use 4WD.
And dropping the flat six is not a option at all for the next gen 911 IMHO.
Jarod.

Though I agree that I don't see Porsche using the R8 as a platform for a future 911, I would say that Porsche's future of a true rival to cars like the F430 and Gallardo is based on a mid-engined design, the 911 platform is a dead-end as far as I am concerned. It will find it harder to compete in the future and either has to put out to graze or they need to leave the 911 alone and turn it into a classic for those liking it's style of driving and develop a new car based on either the Boxster/Cayman design or that of the Carrera GT. Whether they drop the boxer engine is up for debate, for me I don't have a problem with no flat six, they already have one model not using it and this will soon become two.

But if they did choose to continue with the boxer engine then why have a need for awd anyway. Their is no real need for awd in a mid-engined design, with the right weight balance and suspension design the car can have as much traction as one would ever need. Just look at the Cayman, it's dry and wet handling ability are second to none and yet it's lack of out-right pace doesn't leave you feeling short changed. But just imagine a Cayman with over 400hp and a LSD, for me I would find the decision between that and an R8 to be very difficult indeed.

[The Pretender]

Porsche can evolve the Cayman/Boxster with all the 911 boxer engine's and rwd.
And make the next gen 911 a mid engined (R8/Gallardo based) (4x4 ?) V8 DFI 405 hp, V8 turbo 500 hp and V10 612 hp car.

Jarod.

[chewym]

I just hope that Audi gets some technology from Porsche. Porsche has already borrowed FSI and DSG. Porsche has a nice V8 that Audi can use, does the new Cayenne V8 not fit into Audis? Surely Audi can use a bigger V8.

[The Pretender]

I think the Audi V8 is the better V8 engine IMHO.

Jarod.

[Thrives]

As for Audi in VAG, I would not worry too much. Audi is definitely the strongest brand in the VAG as I see it. Of course, it could get a bit crowded in R8/911 etc league especially since the R8 itself is going directly after the 911's hegemony. In this sense we may be looking at the R8 as a stand alone achievement and thus no replacement as we move along. But I would not make that conclusion just yet.

Thrives

[Leadfoot]

I just hope that Audi gets some technology from Porsche. Porsche has already borrowed FSI and DSG. Porsche has a nice V8 that Audi can use, does the new Cayenne V8 not fit into Audis? Surely Audi can use a bigger V8.


I think you will find that it was Audi that borrowed DSG from Porsche and not the other way round.

[The Pretender]

The Audi Sport Quattro rally car was the first with DSG IMHO.

Jarod.

[tailpipe]

This is a very interesting thread.

The truth is, as RXBG says, that this is the end of the road for Audi as we know it. The overlap between Porsche's core models and Audi's is great with the S6/ RS6 and S8 models cutting directly across its Panamera strategy, the Q7 undermining the Cayenne, and the R8 eating away at 911 sales.

There is also the perrenial Audi problem of overlap with Volkswagen. The VW Passat (and now Passat CC coupe) cannibalise sales of the A4, the VW Golf does fthe same for the A3, as will the VW Scirocco with the TT, and the VW Touareg with the Q7. In short, the product strategies are a mess.

It makes sense to have VW as the mainstream economy brand and Porsche as the top end sports car brand. Unfortunately, this leaves Audi languishing in the middle. The reality is that both Porsche and Volkswagen are stronger brands than Audi so they need to be prioritised.

But, there is another factor at work, sports cars are giving way to economy cars. Audi's positioing has moved away from its economy roots to embrace performance. This was fine three years ago, but has become a big issue in the current climate. In London, we are about to have a "Congestion Charge" (read tax) of £25 per day for cars that output more than 225 grmmes of CO2 per kilometre.

Both BMW and Mercedes-Benz as well as Volkswagen have been quick to introduce and market new fuel economy technologies - although they were very late in the game when it came to developing hybrids. Audi is nowhere. Yet, even though it launched common rail diesels and direct injection engines before the others, its performance positioing compromises its economy credentials.

With ex-Audi CEO Martin Winterkorn now at VW, the Wolfsburg marque is now enjoying the beginnings of a major brand resurgence. The line-up is very strong with the Golf, Scirocco, Passat, Tiguan and Touareg all doing very well. Moreover, Volkswagen's new positioing very effectively combines economy, quality and performance.

So Audi has a problem.

There was a talk last year that Volkswagen would float Audi as a separate company to raise cash. The problem is that Audi generates a significant amount of profits for the Group (33% of the total). Given the current econoimc climate it now seems unlikely that Audi will regain its independence.

So where to now for Audi?

It must return to its technology roots. It'd like to see a move away from big engines to lighter cars that blend performance with economy. The race is on the commercialise Hydrogen Fuel Cells. These may well arrive much sooner than everyone thinks, because the cost of building the infrastructure required to support a hydrogen fuel economy may well be less than the cost of extracting the remaining deposits of oil.

I own an Audi A2 among other cars. When it was launched in 2000, it was a breakthrough vehicle. The economy was amazing. It had an aluminium body shell. It didn't sell, because the concept of a premium economy model was so new. A brand new A2 would fill so many needs, of course it would no longer fit within Audi's model range. They were mad not to replace it. A new model is arriving but without the tech. What a pity. i just hope Audi leanrs from this mistake.