B8 S4 Biturbo or Supercharged???

[tvrfan]

has anyone insiders or people at audi that knows which engine the S4 B8 is getting? i hope a Biturbo. i dont like the Supercharger. i know many sources said biturbo otherwise Supercharger. iam confused. i want to know it NOW ! ! ! :w:

[nene]

I'd say Audi going back to using Turbos.

[JWC]

I don't know but if anybody does let us know along with the R10 or R12 whatever will be out and with what engine. Oh and when will the S4 B8 & R's be in US dealers. Thanks and and to the OP good question.

[tvrfan]

NOOO ! ! ! why audi OMG: read this

http://www.audiblog.nl/?p=500

and a guy on fourtitude forums. confirmed today that a guy he knows at audi said it will be supercharged. =(( i dont hope so. are there any chances now for biturbo ??? or is it over and it will be supercharged?

i dont hope =(

[Kliko61]

i really don't like the idea of a supercharger. I love turbo's, but that cheap noise of superchargers, bah, i don't know, don't love it....

[The Pretender]

i really don't like the idea of a supercharger. I love turbo's, but that cheap noise of superchargers, bah, i don't know, don't love it....

Yes terrible sound produced by a V6 Kompressor.

MTM 3.0 V6 K306.

http://www.mtm-online.de/en/index.php?nav=3&subnav=4&FZID=A4CAB162Q&video_id=15#video


Jarod.

[Z07]

^Absolutely. 'S4 Kompressor.' Sales: Nil.

[tvrfan]

i dont care about that fucking noise it makes.

A Supercharger has no fucking future because:

- bad economy
- lesser power (compared to turbo) because it eats itself a bit hp to work.
- its expensiver (compared to turbo)
- bad tuning opitions (tunebility)

[crespo]

watch your language and take it easy tvr. you get so caught up on these things.

i'm hoping for a turbo too, but a soop'd S4 won't be so bad. Audi know what they're doing. have faith.

[The Pretender]

tvrfan, you are still thinking old style superchargers.
The new one's don't use that much power to work well.
They are also more efficient with fuel. (Twin screw four-lobe technology)
Futher a kompressor produce the same power output as a turbo by the same amound of boost pressure.
But normaly they don't run the same amound of boost pressure as a turbo.
Also the "NOT" tunebility of a kompressor is b#ll Sh#t.
If you change the upper charger pulley for a smaller one you get easely more boost and therefore more power.
The new S4 333 hp SC engine is tuneble up to 400 hp IMHO without any problem's

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

and whats with chip? ;-) turbo is the tuning king. amen

[The Pretender]

and whats with chip? ;-) turbo is the tuning king. amen
You don't need a chip upgrade with a SC the LMM will arange that for you.

jarod.

[JWC]

Tuning a supercharged car is as easy as changing to a smaller pulley for more boost (10-30 min. job),adding fuel, and ecu / chip changes. I took a stock 03 Cobra from 370 RWHP to 480 RWHP for about $300.00 dollars. I don't know which way Audi will go but the aftermarket can play either way. Also Jarod is correct you have massive power with the new roots style SC and don't even think about "lag time" with the roots SC it's a non issue.

[Hy Octane]

latest info is pointing towards a new N/A v6.

[The Pretender]

latest info is pointing towards a new N/A v6.
New N/A V6. ???

[tvrfan]

lol. no way it will have a NA V6. where did you get this info on? in early 2007. german ams had an interview with quattro gmbh boss. and they said they will go back to biturbo and turbo buisness. so i hope and pray for biturbo.

[The Pretender]

If it will be a N/A V6 the best option is the mid-high-rev Roadjet V6-3.2 FSI engine.
This engine had 300 hp @ 7000 rpm in the Roadjet and can go up to ± 334 hp @ 7800 rpm.

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Audi/Studies/Roadjet/020.jpg

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

This engine's torque figures are restricting, I reckon it will struggle to produce anything more than 280ft/lbs. For me it not an option in the S4 but would be good in a model just below the S4.

[Z07]

They wouldn't even use an NA V6 for the S3 as they didn't think it had enough torque, instead opting for a 2.0TFSI I4. They'll hardly adopt an NA V6 for the heavier S4, surely?

[chewym]

Audi won't make much more than 320 or so horsepower from a high rev V6, which is a lot less (especially in torque) than the old S4. And you won't have much fuel economy benefits either.

[Charles DLF]

i might be the only one here, but i think a turbo V6 is not sucha bad option for an S4. Car will be lighter, and therefore more agile. The torque figures i read here are not so bad, and a high reving V6 always sounds fantastic.... IMO.

If the new S4 is getting 320/350 Hp, and the new RS4 450/470 Hp (that is purely speculated...) then a real S4 market is created, because with this smaller engine, the car will be much cheaper. The real problem of the S4 V8 is that it is too expensive compared to the RS4... someone who can afford an S4 today is very likely to be able to afford an RS4... therefore...

[Senne]

I also hope the new S4 will be turbocharged, because of the high torque causing "the push in the back" during accelerating, and the tuneability, I think a NA engine is too linear for a sportsedan as the S4. Isn't it possible Audi is trying to mislead us by spreading it will be supercharged and then NA?

edit: I meant back (sorry for my English)

[Leadfoot]

I also hope the new S4 will be turbocharged, because of the high torque causing "the push in the bag" during accelerating, and the tuneability, I think a NA engine is too linear for a sportsedan as the S4. Isn't it possible Audi is trying to mislead us by spreading it will be supercharged and then NA?

Interesting opinion that. ;)

[ott]

I was yesterday at my dealer and he said, that new S4 and RS4 will have V6 with both, turbo and supercharger, similar to VW TSI engine. He said, that this info is from recent dealers meeting in Germany. If this is true, then I think it's very good news, TSI seems like very well performing concept.

[Leadfoot]

I was yesterday at my dealer and he said, that new S4 and RS4 will have V6 with both, turbo and supercharger, similar to VW TSI engine. He said, that this info is from recent dealers meeting in Germany. If this is true, then I think it's very good news, TSI seems like very well performing concept.


What can I said. I like the idea of this even more.;)

[Senne]

That would be great, the best of two worlds. But isn't it difficult to tune with the supercharger (chiptuning)?

[Leadfoot]

You can still tune a supercharged engine but it requires a lot more work to be done than say a turbo engine.

[Rage]

I was yesterday at my dealer and he said, that new S4 and RS4 will have V6 with both, turbo and supercharger, similar to VW TSI engine. He said, that this info is from recent dealers meeting in Germany. If this is true, then I think it's very good news, TSI seems like very well performing concept.

This would fit in with the S4/RS4 line going in a different direction to the S5/RS5 line.

Seems likely to me that the RS5 will be V8. A V6 in the RS4 and a V10 in the RS5 would be too much difference.

[tvrfan]

a V6 TT B8 S4 a V6 TT B8 RS4 then V8 NA S5 and V8 TT RS5 =)

[raulg]

I was yesterday at my dealer and he said, that new S4 and RS4 will have V6 with both, turbo and supercharger, similar to VW TSI engine. He said, that this info is from recent dealers meeting in Germany. If this is true, then I think it's very good news, TSI seems like very well performing concept.

that would clear all the rumours we've been hearing lately, some say supercharged some turboed. If the mixed it everyone is right :)

[raulg]

This would fit in with the S4/RS4 line going in a different direction to the S5/RS5 line.

Seems likely to me that the RS5 will be V8. A V6 in the RS4 and a V10 in the RS5 would be too much difference.

Why do they have to go in different directions??????
Can't they keep it the same, just different car shapes? Hopefully they will properly tune the RS5 to be a real track car (RS!@!@!!) and not just a nice fast cruiser.

[Senne]

Why do they have to go in different directions??????
Can't they keep it the same, just different car shapes? Hopefully they will properly tune the RS5 to be a real track car (RS!@!@!!) and not just a nice fast cruiser.
The A5 is positioned as a GT, the A4 more as a sportsedan.

[The Pretender]

Audi won't make much more than 320 or so horsepower from a high rev V6, which is a lot less (especially in torque) than the old S4. And you won't have much fuel economy benefits either.

Don't look at de old S4, Audi is downgrading the S4 to 335i level, both in power and price.
The first V8 S4 got compare to the M3, the new S4 will be compared with the 335i, a totally different ballgame.

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

I was yesterday at my dealer and he said, that new S4 and RS4 will have V6 with both, turbo and supercharger, similar to VW TSI engine.
I'm not believing one bit of it, the twincharger technologie is developed for small straith/inline engine's not for V engines.

First you can not use a between the V kompressor for this, because it blocks the Turbo entrance to the engine because a Kompressor like that sit right on top of the intake manifold.
Second where do you want to put that single turbo, on the left or right side of the engine because there is no room behind the engine for it.
Futher you can't put a turbo on one side of the engine and a Kompressor on the other side like a inline engine.
It also need a lot of piping around the engine to connect all the parts, this will be very complicated to do.
Like i say, "Twincharging" i'm not believing one bit of it.
If you take a big think about it, supercharging is the best way to go.
Easy to mount and allmost no piping around the engine to connect the parts.

Jarod.

[LOWR1D3R]

AudiWorld (http://www.audiworld.com/news/07/b8-s4-exclusive-preview/) says this: We have confirmed with inside sources that the B8 S4 will debut with a brand new 3.0-liter TFSI bi-turbo producing 330-hp.

[Leadfoot]

Not wanting to be a killjoy but that article was written way back in November 2007.

[The Pretender]

AudiWorld (http://www.audiworld.com/news/07/b8-s4-exclusive-preview/) says this: We have confirmed with inside sources that the B8 S4 will debut with a brand new 3.0-liter TFSI bi-turbo producing 330-hp.
Take a reed here: http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3647275

Jarod.

[The Pretender]

BTW, A supercharged 3.0 V6 FSI Valve-Lift engine will have most likely a electromagnetic clutch on the Kompressor that make it possible that the Kompressor only will be switch-on when there is need for power.
By normal cruising the kompressor will be electromagnetic diconnected to save fuel.
A Kompressor will make more then 20.000 rpm by full engine rpm's.
Also the engine will have a torque figure over 420 Nm.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

is the "push back in the seat" the same on a "good" compressor as like on a biturbo?

[Leadfoot]

is the "push back in the seat" the same on a "good" compressor as like on a biturbo?

Totally different, think of the acceleration on a supercharger car as that of a larger capacity N/A engines car. It's power/torque graph basically matches that of the same engine without the supercharger only there is much more of each.

[Z07]

Totally different, think of the acceleration on a supercharger car as that of a larger capacity N/A engines car. It's power/torque graph basically matches that of the same engine without the supercharger only there is much more of each.

Not necessarily Leadie. It depends on the supercharger being used. With a centrifugal unit, the boost rises with engine speed, so they end up being quite peaky. A roots unit generally gives lots of low-down push but lacks efficiency top-end. A twin-screw almost matches a roots low-down but gives loads more up top. If it were to be supercharged, I'd go with a twin-screw.

[itisme]

don't you think it might be a chance, that this engine is both, supercharged and turboed? VW is talking of downsiceing and useing both is a great opportunity to get power and good fuel consumption with smaller engines.

[Leadfoot]

Not necessarily Leadie. It depends on the supercharger being used. With a centrifugal unit, the boost rises with engine speed, so they end up being quite peaky. A roots unit generally gives lots of low-down push but lacks efficiency top-end. A twin-screw almost matches a roots low-down but gives loads more up top. If it were to be supercharged, I'd go with a twin-screw.

Not as up on superchargers as with turbos and it clearly shows. :looking:

I wish I knew for sure what the S4 is going to be running, be it turbos or supercharger or both. It's this anticipation that gets to me. ;)

P.S.
If it's using a charger it will be a twin-screw. :thumb: