New S4 V6 Kompressor. ?

[The Pretender]

There is floating a rumour around that the new S4 will get a V6 compressor engine and not a bi-turbo.
Is there any logic to it, i say yes there is logic to it.
The question is will it be possyble to get 2 turbo's with 2 intercooler in the small A4/A5 engine room and will it get enough cooling.
A compressor will be on top of the engine in the V of the engine with no installing problems.
A 3.0/3.2 V6 Kompressor engine can simple have a power output between 330 and 380 hp.
And a S4 3.0/3.2 V6 FSI Valve-Lift Kompressor engine in combination with DSG/S-Tronic Quattro sounds as "Vorsprung Durch Technik" to me.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

i dont like the fact that audi would use a Compressor. iam a Turbo guy. and i like more the boost of the turbo. the torque curve on compressor engines are not my thing. on high rpms the compressor is not torquy as a turbo engine. i like the punch. thats what i miss on compressor engines. i also would find it stupid. audi has a turbo heritage and history and if they would change from turbo to compressor. i dont find that good. bmw is building now also a lot of new turbo engines (next 5er series becomes alot of 4cylinder and 6cylinder turbos). audi needs competition. for me a is just a turbo working perfect in a audi not compressor (from feeling in history)

PS: the rumor is relativ old with the compressor. many sources said turbo, other said compressor. i think and hope it will be turbocharged.

[The Pretender]

Don't understand me wrong, i'm also a turbo fan especially the old 315 hp inline 5 turbo of the RS2.
But a V6 Kompressor make sence in line of a longitudinal DSG/S-Tronic gearbox.
It's possible the longitudial DSG can not handle the turbo punch, but have no problem with the Kompressor linear power output.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

then they should make a new or other DSG version in that car or make it manual :D

[The Pretender]

Newest info say the new S4 will be supercharged and badged 3.0T, it will be a supercharged V6 3.0 FSI Valvelift engine.
This info comes from a trusted contact at the Detroit Auto show.

More info here: http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3640806

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

I have recheck with multiple sources since yesterday and every one of them states that it is still going to be supercharged, is I am confident to stick my neck out and say it's gospel.

This also puts a new light on the weight balance of the S4, think better than the S5 and you are on the right lines, I'm thinking something like 55F/45R, also the power figures being quoted are right. When this is combined with Sport Diff I reckon we will be in for a treat.

[raulg]

ufff,
it's still not sure then?????????

[Leadfoot]

ufff,
it's still not sure then?????????

I have heard the same thing from 4 people so I can't be any surer than that.

[The Pretender]

The new S4 will most likely use a twin screw four-lobe (twin Vortices Series) TVS Eaton Kompressor.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_126004.jpg

Jarod.

[AndyBG]

Why would Audi go the kompressor route... :confused:

I would really want to see 3.0 T in S4...

[The Pretender]

Why would Audi go the kompressor route... :confused:

I would really want to see 3.0 T in S4...
It will be badged 3.0T but it will be supercharged according to the info.

Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

I don't see the problem with it having a supercharger instead of turbos, I understand why tvrfan doesn't like it (well everything Audi is presently doing he doesn't like for one reason or another, mostly what it's called) but Andy. :nana:

Jarod give from very good reason why Audi might have chose this route, myself I believe weight played a major role as turbos + piping would have weighed a bit more, plus nothing and that includes turbos can give as real a big engine feel as a supercharger, when executed right the output graph should closely match that of the normal engine only with more of it.

It's only down side I see is economy as unlike turbos it does require power to produce extra power and with this goes economy. At least there should be no turbo lag to contend with.

[AndyBG]

but Andy. :nana:

JIt's only down side I see is economy as unlike turbos it does require power to produce extra power and with this goes economy. At least there should be no turbo lag to contend with.

First, I have to correct my self, I wasn't that sad, I just think that these times aren't ''supercharger friendly'', I personaly LOVE the whistle of the SC...

I'm confused from reason that Audi has BIG and GLORIOUS history with turbo powered cars, yet, they are going to the SC, but, who knows better than Audi managment, its their job to think, ours to enjoy ! :D

I'm more than confident that Audi want dissapoint us !

:cheers:

[raulg]

So we are sure it's a supercharged engine. I kinda trust Leadfoot with all his history of good posts, so I'll take this for good, altough so many others keep pushing the TT into the new S4.

Now, I am not that familiar with a supercharger. Actually not at all. NEver drove a sp car. What's that like? No lag at all? I understand the fuel economy is not as good as with a turbo, but will Audi come out with a really bad engine (as mpg)? I don't think so. Also, is there any way to improve the hp/tq on a supercharged engine? And if yes, by how much? Software programming or hardware changes?

[JWC]

With a Roots/Eaton SC the power is almost instant. I have had two SC Mustangs, a 89 LX and a 03 Cobra both with Roots blowers. The best way I think to describe the hit (on a Roots type) is like a well tuned big block. My 03 Cobra had 565 hp and 500 ft of tq. It put down 440 ft lbs of tq at 2100 rpm's about .4 seconds from smashing the gas. The down side was NO TRACTION! I could spin the rear 315's at 60 MPH. The up side is swaping pulleys for more boost is easy. Oh and with the 03 Cobra I got about 15 MPG in the city and 20 or so on the highway; as long as I didn't stomp to hard on the go peddle.

[The Pretender]

SUPERCHARGERS
<!--SS_BEGIN_ELEMENT(region1_element2)--><!--SS_END_ELEMENT(region1_element2)-->
<!--SS_BEGIN_ELEMENT(region1_element21)-->Eaton designs and manufactures highly efficient Roots-type positive displacement superchargers for automotive applications. The Roots-type design was first patented in 1860 by brothers Philander and Francis Roots and refined for automotive passenger car use by Eaton in the 1980s. Eaton applied its engineering, manufacturing and engine air management expertise to improve the efficiency of the design and reduce manufacturing costs. Eaton superchargers today are utilized by automotive manufacturers around the world as an economical way to add power and efficiency to their engines and create a one-of-a-kind driving experience. Eaton superchargers provide vehicle manufacturers the option of using smaller, more economical 4- and 6-cylinder engines, without perceived loss in performance. Additionally, Eaton superchargers incorporate a bypass system to reduce air handling losses when boost is not required, resulting in better fuel economy.



Twin Vortices System.
The TVS™ is Eaton’s newest Roots-type supercharger design that is capable of running with a high thermal efficiency (up to 76%) across a very wide operating range.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@auto/documents/content/ct_066001.jpg


Jarod.

[Leadfoot]

So we are sure it's a supercharged engine. I kinda trust Leadfoot with all his history of good posts, so I'll take this for good, altough so many others keep pushing the TT into the new S4.

I still believe 100% that it's a supercharger but let me add to your vote of confidence in me, the only person I can't get confirmation from is the guy who feed me all the info on the RS6, TT/S, TT/RS and the RS5, the S4 isn't his department. When I did talk to him about the S4 late last year he also said that to his knowledge it was to be supercharged but comfirmed that more than one engine choice was in with a shout. Though he did say back then that the S4 and S5 would most probably run different engines and this looks likely based on the evidence so far.

[KresoF1]

Leadie,
It will either use TSI technology(a la small 1.4L 170hp) or biturbo as on RS6.

Why? Kompressor(only as on Jag XKR) is climate killer-very high CO2 emission.

[The Pretender]

It will either use TSI technology(a la small 1.4L 170hp) or biturbo as on RS6.
TSI Twincharger technology is only for inline/straight engine's and maybe VR5/VR6 engines.
If Audi go the supercharger route it's also possible we will see a 4.0T supercharged engine in the new RS4/5 with 466 hp.
A supercharged V6 or V8 is more compact then a V6 or V8 bi-turbo engine and can weigh less.

Jarod.

[KresoF1]

CO2 emmisions... Do a little research on Mechanical Kompressors regarding long term service cost and overall reliability...

Biturbo is logical step for Audi's current technology(FSI with Valve Lift). Your suggestion(kompressor) is pretty much against that logic and IMHO a huge step backwards(of course, if Audi decide to build Kompressor engine)...

[The Pretender]

CO2 emmisions... Do a little research on Mechanical Kompressors regarding long term service cost and overall reliability...

Biturbo is logical step for Audi's current technology(FSI with Valve Lift). Your suggestion(kompressor) is pretty much against that logic and IMHO a huge step backwards(of course, if Audi decide to build Kompressor engine)...
The future will tell, waith and see.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

NO WAY!!! audi wouldnt go Compressor route. that is what i can tell you 100%. at first audi heritage with her great turbo cars and history. second, fuel econom.. , third compressor eats herself 25-30 PS power to work himself. performance wouldnt be good as on a Biturbo. Audi would never go Compressor route. compressor dies in future.

[gabbby69006]

Strange !!! Really strange... Supercharger is cost a lot in consumption. Perhaps they will make it run like the TSI one, wich mean it will not run all time, but only when high load is required. But a supercharger need a low compression ratio, exept if it doesn't run at mid load. The high compression ratio can be achived at high RPM, wich permit to a supercharger to make more power, but the supercharger is the worst choice for mid load and low load situation.

To have an image, a permanent supercharger permit to have the power and torque of a bigger engine : 3L supercharged = 4.2 NA. This is the perfect solution for that, but there is a consumption penalty, because a supercharger is a friction and energy dissipator (when you compress gaz, the warm energy is mostly lost).

So, this can be a solution for low power enhancement, and secondly, users cannot make chip tuning : this permit to protect the gearbox like the DSG wich will have a high torque limit.

A good strategy, combined with Direct Injection, with a non permanent supercharger, can be a great choice. But a permanent supercharger is definitivelly the worst.

[Leadfoot]

Probably the best person to answer questions of an Audi with supercharger is Frederic as MTM have done the conversion for the RS4, R8 and S4v8.

[The Pretender]

Probably the best person to answer questions of an Audi with supercharger is Frederic as MTM have done the conversion for the RS4, R8 and S4v8.
Not forget the MTM A4 Cabrio 3.0 V6 Kompressor with 306 ps.

http://www.mtm-online.de/en/index.php?nav=3&subnav=4&FZID=A4CAB162Q&video_id=15#video

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

its absoloutly idiotic to badge the B8 S4 testmule with 3.0 T (T for Turbo) and under the hood is a compressor. i dont think audi would joke us. and thrust me it will be a biturbo.

[chewym]

Honestly folks, Audi people are not idiots. If they picked a supercharger they must have had plenty of reasons. The latest 4 lobe design is a lot more fuel efficient and I think latest technology allows the supercharger to not work when not needed. The BMW 3.0 twin turbo weighs about the same as the Audi 4.2 V8.

[Marv]

So BMW famed for its excellent normally aspirated engines is now doing twin turbo, Audi famed for its excellent turbo engines is now doing supercharged and Mercedes AMG famed for its excellent supercharged engines is now doing normally aspirated - strange times. Have they all swaped senior engineering staff?

I did read somewhwere that the new Audi longitudinal S-Tronic box is good for about 380 lb ft. Does anyone have any news on this. That figure would seem to leave room for aftermarket tuning. Also what is the tuning potential of compressor compared with turbo?

[Leadfoot]

I did read somewhwere that the new Audi longitudinal S-Tronic box is good for about 380 lb ft. Does anyone have any news on this. That figure would seem to leave room for aftermarket tuning. Also what is the tuning potential of compressor compared with turbo?

I know that the S/Tronic being developed for the TT and A3 is capable of handling 500Nm but all the signs are that the S/Tronic for the longitude setup can handle a hack of a lot more than 500Nm, my guess is it will be closer to 600~650Nm. That is unless Audi are going to introduce more than one DSG for this platform which sounds unusual, but if true then it maybe one offering more gears, a S/Tronic 6sp and a RS/Tronic with 7 gears.

[Cargo8]

well mercedes had reason to switch over to NA. the new mercedes 7 speed transmission could handle ~200 ft lbs less torque than the old 5 speed, and so mercedes told AMG to make more power, less torque, and thus the supercharger was dropped and the NA engine (6.2 L V8) came to be.

[tvrfan]

@ Qhisha

PLEASE ! ! ! if you know something, about the B8 S4 engine. tell us something. please say us or give us a tipp. i really hope that it wont be supercharged. that would suck ! Please Qhisha