gtboard.com Event 2: M3 CSL vs RS4 B7 V8

[Hawk]

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=110586

[Audifan92]

Thanks for the post man

[Audifan92]

The CSL is a fast car, but i dont think that the distance between the two cars shouldnt have been that far
But also the CSL has a weight advantage
who knows...

[Leadfoot]

Both cars have very PTW so the advantage we are seeing is partly down to the gearbox and partly down to the rolling start.

One thing I did notice is that the E92 M3 is clearly quicker in acceleration than the CSL even if PTW of each is roughly the same.

[Xpower]

This isn't the 1st time we've seen a CSL pull an RS4 by such massive margins. Seems to happen quite often.

[Leadfoot]

This isn't the 1st time we've seen a CSL pull an RS4 by such massive margins. Seems to happen quite often.

As with all of GTBoard and M6.com events we are subjected to this rolling start which always plays into the hands of anything without awd, the massive margins you are talking about seems to be different than mine, yes the CSL won this test but it was never out in the distance as the E92 M3 did and most of it's gain was made at the start then with small gains at each gear change which is to be expected as it is a SMG compared to a manual connected to an awd system which does slow things up even more than normal.

I reckon if the test had been conducted from a starting start the result would have been reversed as when the RS4 raced the E92 M3 in the previous event it did take the M3 until 140mph before it got level and then took the lead.

[Audifan92]

They should have done a race from a stand still.
I think the RS4 could have taken it...
:rs4addict

[BigRick]

They should have done a race from a stand still.
I think the RS4 could have taken it...
:rs4addict

Well, it's always the same with these videos... they do what gives the results they want to show.

They'll say it's to make sure they don't worn the clutch... yeah sure! do a rolling start from 1 mph then, not 30... and while they're at it, why not simply not race at all if you're so bad with the clutch.

Another waste of time!

[Rutkowsky]

I always thought that rolling start eliminates driver error and it is much easier on the car's mechanics. Anyway it is not that you start a race from a dead stop on a motorway, is it? And How many on here had a race on a derestricted autobhan?? You drive fast car and you have to move over to give way to even faster one, what a feeling!! On a race track you also don't stop. CSL won, end of. On a wet start, RS4 would have, so what! Both are nice cars. It is Audi site and i wouldn't expect anything else but common sense would be welcomed, from time to time

[Rutkowsky]

As with all of GTBoard and M6.com events we are subjected to this rolling start which always plays into the hands of anything without awd, the massive margins you are talking about seems to be different than mine, yes the CSL won this test but it was never out in the distance as the E92 M3 did and most of it's gain was made at the start then with small gains at each gear change which is to be expected as it is a SMG compared to a manual connected to an awd system which does slow things up even more than normal.

I reckon if the test had been conducted from a starting start the result would have been reversed as when the RS4 raced the E92 M3 in the previous event it did take the M3 until 140mph before it got level and then took the lead.

Leadie,

It is official now, the M-DCT gearbox (7 speed) enables the car to go from 4.8 to 4.6 to 100km/h car is more economical and so. Do you remember my PM about 6 weeks ago, before any official info? I also have a trustworthy source
:cheers:

[raulg]

Well, it's always the same with these videos... they do what gives the results they want to show.

They'll say it's to make sure they don't worn the clutch... yeah sure! do a rolling start from 1 mph then, not 30... and while they're at it, why not simply not race at all if you're so bad with the clutch.

Another waste of time!

Hei, don't worry, those guys at m5board always do stuff like this. Run the cars from 50mph to 150mph or more, like anyone else could do the same on a regular street. IT's a test, but doesn't prove anything.
Just like the new M3 against the RS4, where the M3 leaves the RS4 in the dust really bad; but cars where equal up to 130-140mph; So... who cares what happens after that?
And if you wanna know ...I tell you what: you either die or go to jail :))

[Leadfoot]

Leadie,

It is official now, the M-DCT gearbox (7 speed) enables the car to go from 4.8 to 4.6 to 100km/h car is more economical and so. Do you remember my PM about 6 weeks ago, before any official info? I also have a trustworthy source
:cheers:

It's interesting to see that even with 7 gears the improvement is still only 0.2s, did you happen to hear what the actual ratios were, mph/1000rpm in each gear would be handy.

Have you hear a price of the option as my dealer has nothing as of yet, though to be honest he may have as I haven't rung to find out.

[Leadfoot]

I have watched numerous videos on Youtube and the ones from Gtboard.com are the exception to the rule, I don't know why BMWs seem to run better there than any where else but that is the facts.

I have no doubt that the standing start result we seen of the E92 M3 vs RS4 was typical of what Autocar got when they tested both. I also reckon that the M3 vs RS4 rolling start would have resulted in the M3 winning it too, but the problem with any of these is one car may start to accelerate slightly sooner than the other which will have a noticeable effect on what you see on the screen.

The CSL winning it's race against the RS4 proved that with these particular cars the CSL was the quicker, does this mean on every occasion the result will be the same with different cars, the answer to that would be NO.

Maybe the magazines should include such a test as rolling start from 30-100mph, they at least we would have some figures to go on when considering which car we would like to own if that what fires your buttons. :brag:

[Rutkowsky]

Price is 3800 euros. Official is 4.6 but the car does 4.5 no problem. Top of third gear in manual version @ 8300rpm you do 180km/h also the new box is heavier by 20kg comparing to manual. The real shocker is cabrio @ 1905 kg, 0-100km/h 5.3!!

[Audifan92]

Does anyone here have the gtboard DVD?
I was looking at the races that they listed, and I was looking forward to seeing alot them
they had the R8 vs E92 M3, R8 vs M3CSL, R8 vs GT3, B7 RS4 vs B5 RS4, RS4 vs 335 Modified and etc...

[Leadfoot]

Price is 3800 euros. Official is 4.6 but the car does 4.5 no problem. Top of third gear in manual version @ 8300rpm you do 180km/h also the new box is heavier by 20kg comparing to manual. The real shocker is cabrio @ 1905 kg, 0-100km/h 5.3!!

1905Kgs :MTM:

This must be the heaviest conversion percentage wise I have ever seen, the extra weight must part as much down to making it rigid again as the roof itself.

Clearly BMW has decided that rigidity and handling are more important than weight, because the 335i uses the same system and it doesn't weight this much...........does it. :eye:

[Gustav]

Yes, on GTboard.com DVD2 we wil lrace the Audi R8. Also Porsche Carrera GT vs McLaren Mercedes SL-R from 50-300+ km/h :race:

The fist DVD includes these races:

http://www.gtboard.com/hdcover.jpg

Order PAL-version here (Eirope):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TFHKHM?&camp=212361&creative=380733&linkCode=wey&tag=theunoffibmwm5ho

NTSC version here (USA) :

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UUDRN2?&camp=212361&creative=380733&linkCode=wey&tag=theunoffibmwm5ho

Thanks for asking :thumb:

DVDII wil lcome within one month.


Does anyone here have the gtboard DVD?
I was looking at the races that they listed, and I was looking forward to seeing alot them
they had the R8 vs E92 M3, R8 vs M3CSL, R8 vs GT3, B7 RS4 vs B5 RS4, RS4 vs 335 Modified and etc...

[Gustav]

Don't miss the second video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLToziJ96eI

[Clio16V]

Leadie,

It is official now, the M-DCT gearbox (7 speed) enables the car to go from 4.8 to 4.6 to 100km/h car is more economical and so. Do you remember my PM about 6 weeks ago, before any official info? I also have a trustworthy source
:cheers:


It is gonna be called ’M DKG’


http://images.autostrassenverkehr.de/hps/img/hxmedia/mpsasv/2008/01/10UGph_cP89uHdw.jpg

[Rutkowsky]

It's interesting to see that even with 7 gears the improvement is still only 0.2s, did you happen to hear what the actual ratios were, mph/1000rpm in each gear would be handy.

Have you hear a price of the option as my dealer has nothing as of yet, though to be honest he may have as I haven't rung to find out.

Leadie,

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107582 post no# 14 has gear ratios

And M-DCT is still a valid name

[Leadfoot]

Great find. :thumb:

Though I am a bit confused as to why they have dropped the final drive down to 3.1, I remember a dick on here who made to comment that the reason for the high final drive was to aid acceleration. It seem I was right all along and it made no difference at all when the rest of the gears were design to match.

It looks like it's going to have a higher capable top speed, may be as much as 300km/h, I bet you would like that Rutkowsky.:hahahehe:

[Clio16V]

Maybe they call in ’M DKG’ only in the Netherlands?

[BroddvonBronto]

Don't forget, there were some runs done in October when it was a lot colder! Those videos should be up soon

[Clio16V]

M- Double-Clutch Transmission / M- Doppel Kupplung Getriebe ;)

[artur777]

Great find. :thumb:

Though I am a bit confused as to why they have dropped the final drive down to 3.1, I remember a dick on here who made to comment that the reason for the high final drive was to aid acceleration. It seem I was right all along and it made no difference at all when the rest of the gears were design to match.

It looks like it's going to have a higher capable top speed, may be as much as 300km/h, I bet you would like that Rutkowsky.:hahahehe:

They didn't want to make M3 DCT change its gears earlier than M3 manual up to 100 mph - that's why they lowered gear ratios a very little bit. The surplus in acceleration - only because of faster shifts and less tranny losses, but not better gearing!

[Leadfoot]

As it was built to their own spec they could have kept the high final drive ratio and just altered the 7 forward gears to suit their requirement. My point was that the final ratio and each gear are design for the same end result, one doesn't work without the other.

[artur777]

As it was built to their own spec they could have kept the high final drive ratio and just altered the 7 forward gears to suit their requirement. My point was that the final ratio and each gear are design for the same end result, one doesn't work without the other.

Agree in full :cheers:

[Audifan92]

Gustav,


Do you have a video of the R8 vs a BMW or a Porsche that you can show us??

[Gustav]

Audi R8 vs Porsche Carrera 2 S manual with factory powerikit X51 50 km/h to 250+ km/h :D

So how many have bought the first DVD (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-8419448-3405506?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=gtboard.com&x=0&y=0) :race: :applause:


Gustav,


Do you have a video of the R8 vs a BMW or a Porsche that you can show us??

[Audifan92]

Who wins??

[Gustav]

You can see that on the DVD :jlol:

Seriosuly, I will psot it further on.


Who wins??

[Audifan92]

Im trying to buy it, but I don't have a credit card...
Im trying to get my cousin to order it for me

[Gustav]

Just a heads up. the one on Amazon is DVD 1, with these races in very good quaility in picture and sound;

http://www.gtboard.com/hdcover.jpg

The second DVD (http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=97994) with the R8 will be released in a month.


Im trying to buy it, but I don't have a credit card...
Im trying to get my cousin to order it for me

[Audifan92]

Oh, alright
thanks