Bone stock Audi RS6 vs Modded C32 AMG

[10SecS4]

Video: Video: Bone stock Audi RS6 vs Modded C32 AMG (http://titsup-racing.com/video/rs6/c32amg_vs_rs6.wmv)

It's pretty cool how fast a bone stock 4,200lb AWD sedan can be with only 8psi of boost. ;)

ECM and TCM software should be done this week and then it's time for some E55 AMG hunting. :)

[ben916]

Is that your video?

IMAO, I would think the RS6 would whip a C32 any day, modded or not.

[10SecS4]

Is that your video?

IMAO, I would think the RS6 would whip a C32 any day, modded or not.Yep, my RS6 and my video.

You should do some research into the C32. With 3-4 bolt ons, they're running low to mid 12's and trapping in the 110-114 range. So I'm pretty happy that I beat one considering my RS6 is bone stock. :jlol:

http://www.dragtimes.com/results.php?carmodel=467&op1=%3E%3D&data1=&search2=et&op2=%3C%3D&data2=&days=10000000&carmake=30&name=Search+DragTimes

[ben916]

If I remember correctly, the C32 is a V8 compressor with 396hp or so?!

I am not really up on the Merc nor the mods so i guess I was writing out of the place from where I sit?

Keep us posted on the E55 hunting....

[DuckWingDuck]

If you were playing around with the new generation C32 then ya, but I agree with Ben916, nice that you beat it but not surprising...

[Erik]

The C32 is a pretty quick car, much quciker than most people realise.

[RS6 POWER]

If I remember correctly, the C32 is a V8 compressor with 396hp or so?!

I am not really up on the Merc nor the mods so i guess I was writing out of the place from where I sit?

Keep us posted on the E55 hunting....

V6 Kompresor not V8!!!
E55 is another story...beware.

Regards,
Manuel

[Audi Fever]

I was actually thinking about getting an E55. Those cars are nasty! 469hp/516tq stock. Stock E55's seem to run mid to low 12's or better! Just believe the Audi is a better all around car. Always loved this classic Top Gear video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnYD5eASPPI



Brent
:addict:

[skiwi]

just drive an e55 in the wet and see how much time you spend with more than 100bhp going through the rear wheels!

[got boost]

Drove the E55 back to back with the RS6 (stock for stock) many times. IMHO, RS6 brakes better, handles better, similar accelleration, but the RS6 felt stronger above 100mph. Visually, I like the the E55 better, but my money went to the RS6. No regrets here.

Beware though, that AMG 5speed gearbox can handle a lot more aftermarket power than our gearbox ever will. A simple "ecu/pulley/header" package will easily net an additional 100+hp on those bad boys.

They still use the 5 speed in the twin turbo v12 "65" versions.

:rs6kiss:

[Audi Fever]

Good info. Yeah, never driven the E55. Just going by times and hp. I'm all about my RS6 :)

Brent
:addict:

[RS6 POWER]

There is also a weight difference between the 2 cars, the E55 is lighter. The only problems that I encountered with the one I had was that the more HP...the faster it got tired (heat soak). Mine bone stock had 406RWH with the pulley, ecu, and filters 466RWH. Then a little bit of juice and 11.6 @ 119!!! But, yes the handling does not even compare to the RS6...
Just my two cents!!!

Regards,
Manuel

PS: 466RWH with no juice!!!

[Audi Fever]

That's sick! Good info from someone that actually owned one! Got any ideas of what we can do to get these RS6's to launch any better? ECU/TCU upgrade hasn't made a difference. Thought I had read a TSB stating that whenever the brake and gas are pressed at the same time the brake will take priority and limit engine rpm. Figure these cars are making peak tq just above 1900 then they ought to rocket out of the hole. Thought about pulling some ABS or the brake pedal sensor but then realized wouldn't be able to put it in gear. LOL. I'm still thinking though. Pretty sure it has to do with Tq management.

Brent
:addict:

[RS6-4dr911]

I don't think there is any special electronic system (someone correct me if they know better) that limits RPM under braking - it's simply the torque converter stall speed. Only a true dragster has enough torque to overpower the brakes. I think you would have to replace or modify the torque converter ($$$) in order to raise it's stall speed in order to get further up into the torque band for better launches.

Maybe there is some programming way to delay the lockup mechanism to keep the rpm's at the stall speed until the wheel speed catches up to it?

[SeattleS4]

Watch out for the E55's...especially from a highway roll. My friend has a bone stock '06 E55 that made 414rwhp/460rwtq and his best 1/4 time so far is 12.1's @ 118. An 11.99 or better should be possible with drag radials and a longer cool down period.

[SeattleS4]

I don't think there is any special electronic system (someone correct me if they know better) that limits RPM under braking - it's simply the torque converter stall speed. Only a true dragster has enough torque to overpower the brakes. I think you would have to replace or modify the torque converter ($$$) in order to raise it's stall speed in order to get further up into the torque band for better launches.


Correct. A higher stall speed (2800rpm to 3200rpm) would improve the launch significantly and probably allow for consistent 1.7x - 1.8x sixty foot times. An auxillary trans cooler and trans temp guage would probably be a good idea since boost launching with a higher stall converter would create a ton of extra heat.

[Audi Fever]

Hey, I found this info on Alldata a few mos ago. Dated 2/27/07. Basically states that the brake in fact takes priority. Don't really know. Need to go out and mess with mine some more. Even if the converter is around 1800-2000 stall according to the tq graphs on the RS6 training manual it shouldn't be an issue because it is making 415 ft lbs from 1950-5600rpm unchipped. Don't think higher stall will solve the issue. Just my 2 cents.
Any thoughts after reading this?


Brent
:addict:

[ben916]

Audi Fever, GREAT CATCH!!!

Anyone put a line lock so as the computer doesn't sense brake/accel pressing at the same time? (off topic?)

[Audi Fever]

I'm going to have to do some checking into the brake wiring harness and possibly putting a toggle switch so that it interupts the brake circuit on launches. We are getting off topic so we need to start another thread.


Brent
:addict:

[haha bye]

wow the big bad rs6 couldnt pull the c32 in that second run a car that starts out with over 100 hp less...the second run is the one where the fuel was good too not the +10% first run. I also dont see the last run either, the one where the c32 started pulling up top...lol well see what happens with the chips you put in...sh1t:addict:

[Audi Fever]

Just make a screen name to respond to this post? LOL.

:addict: That's original! You must have a really awesome car. HUH?

[haha bye]

lol yup its ok but that rs6 is really awsome. I would have thought much better 1/4 times though I mean you have 520hp and even more torque and couldnt break a 12.5

[Audi Fever]

It's decent. Far from awesome but your response is typical. Read my last post on this thread and you might start having a clue. http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13845

Of course you never did mention what awesome car you had or are you just one of those "internet" people. LOL

You can PM me if you have anymore clever things to say.


Brent
:addict: :ttaddict:

[DuckWingDuck]

woohoo!! Our very own troll!

[Thrives]

A troll indeed which brings this classic to mind ...


http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/300W/images3.deviantart.com/i/2004/111/0/e/Don__t_feed_the_Troll.jpg

[Erik]

"haha bye" won't be bothering us more so please continue ON TOPIC.

Thanks!

[10SecS4]

That's sick! Good info from someone that actually owned one! Got any ideas of what we can do to get these RS6's to launch any better? ECU/TCU upgrade hasn't made a difference. Thought I had read a TSB stating that whenever the brake and gas are pressed at the same time the brake will take priority and limit engine rpm. Figure these cars are making peak tq just above 1900 then they ought to rocket out of the hole. Thought about pulling some ABS or the brake pedal sensor but then realized wouldn't be able to put it in gear. LOL. I'm still thinking though. Pretty sure it has to do with Tq management.

Brent
:addict:Audi limits the throttle body from opening completely at low RPMs. So even if the pedal position is at 100%, the throttle body may only be opening 50%. This is indeed a form of torque management.

The other thing is boost. If you sit on the brake and gas at the same time and hold say 2,000 RPMs, the engine computer drops the boost. So instead of launching with 10psi of boost, you may only be launching with 5psi. The best way to launch this car then is to install a boost gauge and launch just as the needle approaches the maximum PSI. This will take some trial and error and practice before you can nail it every time. If you don't want to install a boost gauge, my best advice would be to powerbrake it off the line and launch just as the tach needle approaches 2K. Catch it on the upswing, but do not hold it like that or else you risk computer intervention.

[10SecS4]

Hey, I found this info on Alldata a few mos ago. Dated 2/27/07. Basically states that the brake in fact takes priority. Don't really know. Need to go out and mess with mine some more. Even if the converter is around 1800-2000 stall according to the tq graphs on the RS6 training manual it shouldn't be an issue because it is making 415 ft lbs from 1950-5600rpm unchipped. Don't think higher stall will solve the issue. Just my 2 cents.
Any thoughts after reading this?


Brent
:addict:That's pretty interesting, but that defintely does not happen in my RS6. Are you holding the brake and revs for more than two seconds? Because as the TSB states, if you hold them for more than two seconds, the engine RPMs will return to idle speed. What's odd is my car idles nowhere near 1400 RPMs, I'm pretty sure it's closer to 1000 but I'd have to log it to find out for sure.

What's funny is this TSB obviously came out after a bunch of RS6 owners discovered they weren't very successful in launching the car on the street or dragstrip; however, Audi tries to play it off for whatever reason like it's some accidental phenomena where the person's foot is just accidentally "resting" on the brake pedal. :lovl:

[10SecS4]

I'm going to have to do some checking into the brake wiring harness and possibly putting a toggle switch so that it interupts the brake circuit on launches. We are getting off topic so we need to start another thread.


Brent
:addict:You're definitely on the right track. In the S4, all you need to do is disconnect the ABS module. By doing so, you also kill the EDL (Electronic Differential Lock) which is the likely source of the condition described in the TSB. Then when you're done having your fun at the dragstrip, you simply reconnect the ABS module, clear any codes that may have been set, and you're good to go!

[10SecS4]

wow the big bad rs6 couldnt pull the c32 in that second run a car that starts out with over 100 hp less...the second run is the one where the fuel was good too not the +10% first run. I also dont see the last run either, the one where the c32 started pulling up top...lol well see what happens with the chips you put in...sh1t:addict:You can compare the two cars now til the cows come home. In the end, it is what it is: a moderately modified C32 AMG vs a stock RS6.

The last run is in the video. Maybe next time you shouldn't be so scared and stay in it instead of always letting off early. Unless the Benz just can't take the twisties as well as my 4200lb tank on snow tires? :hihi:

[10SecS4]

lol yup its ok but that rs6 is really awsome. I would have thought much better 1/4 times though I mean you have 520hp and even more torque and couldnt break a 12.5Come on man, he's trapping 113-114 with just a chip! If anyone ever comes up with a way to beef up this trans and converter, I can personally guarantee you that it would be a CAKE WALK to get one of these into the 11's with no nitrous. With different wastegate actuators, these turbos are good for a sustained 25+ pounds of boost. Most of the aftermarket software upgrades for these cars run 15 pounds at best, so there's a TON of power left on the table in just boost.

[DuckWingDuck]

I idle right around 700rpm

[Audi Fever]

10secS4-- That haha bye person is out there. That was the point I was trying to make about the weight and mph. Oh well. Good that he's gone! Thanks Erik! I do have a VDO boost gauge in a carbon fiber pod on the steering wheel. Looks pretty good. It'll usually spike 14-15psi and maintain around 14 psi. It is kinda funny on shifts though. The boost will drop some then come back up and every now and then in 4th gear at wot for a long period of time. Not sure if it is picking up knock and dumping boost for a sec.
My car idles around 700-750 also. I'll try and play around this weekend to see if I can get it to leave any harder and do some checking on the brake switch or abs fuse.
Your right! These cars would likely go low 12's high 11's with a good launch. If I could get a 60' like Copper then I would be good to go.
Good info on the turbos as well. I really didn't know how much they where good for. Thanks for your input.

Brent
:addict:

[10SecS4]

10secS4-- That haha bye person is out there. That was the point I was trying to make about the weight and mph. Oh well. Good that he's gone! Thanks Erik! I do have a VDO boost gauge in a carbon fiber pod on the steering wheel. Looks pretty good. It'll usually spike 14-15psi and maintain around 14 psi. It is kinda funny on shifts though. The boost will drop some then come back up and every now and then in 4th gear at wot for a long period of time. Not sure if it is picking up knock and dumping boost for a sec.
My car idles around 700-750 also. I'll try and play around this weekend to see if I can get it to leave any harder and do some checking on the brake switch or abs fuse.
Your right! These cars would likely go low 12's high 11's with a good launch. If I could get a 60' like Copper then I would be good to go.
Good info on the turbos as well. I really didn't know how much they where good for. Thanks for your input.

Brent
:addict:If you're having weird boost issues, you may wanna try a new N75 valve. They're about $75 and have been known to cure all sorts of intermittent and wacky boost issues on Audis and VWs.

Yep, there are guys putting RS6 turbos on S4s. One guy recently put down 558whp on a Mustang Dyno with a 2.7T and RS6 turbos. He did change the wastegate actuators.

Just curious, where'd you get the steering wheel pod from? And how does it fit/look? Does it obstruct your view of the gauges at all?

Ever run your car on pump gas?

You must be the owner of DTP, eh? :thumb:

[Audi Fever]

If you're having weird boost issues, you may wanna try a new N75 valve. They're about $75 and have been known to cure all sorts of intermittent and wacky boost issues on Audis and VWs.

Yep, there are guys putting RS6 turbos on S4s. One guy recently put down 558whp on a Mustang Dyno with a 2.7T and RS6 turbos. He did change the wastegate actuators.

Just curious, where'd you get the steering wheel pod from? And how does it fit/look? Does it obstruct your view of the gauges at all?

Ever run your car on pump gas?

You must be the owner of DTP, eh? :thumb:


The N75 is a good idea and cheap to replace. I'll order one tomorrow. Just using stock replacement I take it. Heard of the race N75 (ECS Tuning) and APR not working well but never tried myself. Anyone put a manual or electronic boost controller on an RS6 yet? Actually had an issue on my 00 APR stg3 S4 that would cause it to overboost and ended up using a manual boost controller run parallel to the N75 to bleed boost off. Tried running a new stock N75 that APR said was bad but didn't make a difference. Have heard of guys using the RS6 turbos and 28rs turbos with some firewall reliefs. I met Mark P that has the yellow avant that makes 469awhp in Nov at VIR. Nice guy. He ran with the Audi club on Sat-Sun. I ran my Vette on Monday with Trackdaze. That is one sick wagon. I see your screen name but not sure who you are. What all is done to your S4? Have a link to it? Just got the new issue of eurotuner that had a couple of 10sec S4's. Awesome! Keep the good info coming!
Got the gauge and pod from Summit. Looks pretty good and really doesn't obstruct dash view. Did come with some ugly silver (bare metal) bolts that hold the gauge cup. Haven't had a chance to paint them or replace with black ones. I'll take a pic of it tomorrow and post.
Car runs on our crappy e10 93 everyday when my fiance drives it. I usually try to run it out and put 100 in it for some weekend fun. Got a buddy with a quick Dinan S2 M5 that I need to stay ahead of. LOL

Yep, I am the owner of DTP.

Regards,
Brent
:addict:

[nyrs6]

10 sec s4, did you buy that car used? If so maybe it was chipped?
Another thing is that you will be suprised, the beast doesnt trap that high on the track, yet it can beat alot of cars that trap higher.

As far as the boost coming off at launch. If you get the OCT tranny chip it lets you launch at 3000+ and it doesn't drop boost. When we had ours, all four tires will lost grip when launched like that. I am telling you its a feeling i had never experieced before in any car including my dads faster M5. Oh boy do i really miss that 600 lbft of torque.


BTW 10 sec s4, Hyperboost DV FTW. We had them when we had our RS6 with OCT, trouble free for over 40,000 miles. http://stratmosphere.com/hyperboost5.htm
That should clear any boost problems unless you have a hose leak or something.

[Audi Fever]

Wish my car would launch like the one you had nyrs6. Did you just foot brake it to 3000+? How did you get it to stall that high without the car pushing and a stock converter?

Regards,
Brent
:addict:

[nyrs6]

Tip chip, this was along time ago so i could be wrong about the 3000. But it was definetly higher then stock and it would hold and not go back down.

[10SecS4]

The N75 is a good idea and cheap to replace. I'll order one tomorrow. Just using stock replacement I take it. Heard of the race N75 (ECS Tuning) and APR not working well but never tried myself. Anyone put a manual or electronic boost controller on an RS6 yet?Not that I know of, but you can definitely do it. The RS6 is very similar to the S4 in that it has N75 controlled boost. I'd put a MBC (standalone not parallel) in a heartbeat along with my GIAC software, but I'm real afraid of the tranny grenading. :noshake:


Actually had an issue on my 00 APR stg3 S4 that would cause it to overboost and ended up using a manual boost controller run parallel to the N75 to bleed boost off. Tried running a new stock N75 that APR said was bad but didn't make a difference.
Have heard of guys using the RS6 turbos and 28rs turbos with some firewall reliefs.There are a lot of guys running GT28RS and RS6 turbos now on S4s without any firewall or subframe modifications. But the "kits" are grossly overpriced (especially when you consider an S4 can easily be found for under $10K these days).


I met Mark P that has the yellow avant that makes 469awhp in Nov at VIR. Nice guy. He ran with the Audi club on Sat-Sun. I ran my Vette on Monday with Trackdaze. That is one sick wagon.Yeah, it's pretty quick and Mark P definitely knows his stuff. I use his templates for my APR ECU Explorer data acquisition program. :hihi:


I see your screen name but not sure who you are. What all is done to your S4? Have a link to it? Just got the new issue of eurotuner that had a couple of 10sec S4's. Awesome! Keep the good info coming!My S4 is just your garden variety K04 car with a TON of weight reduction... It has a bone stock motor, stock heads, stock cams, stock engine management, no nitrous, etc. I've built it on a budget as an all around performance car, so that is why I haven't gone with bigger turbos yet (too much $$$ especially since then I'd have to build the motor). It's much more fun trying to go fast without spending much money.

Here's a link to a 10.73 run from over the summer: http://www.titsup-racing.com/video/s4/s4_10_73.wmv

More videos of it (and various other S4s that I've owned as well as some friend's S4s) are here:
http://www.titsup-racing.com/video/s4/


Got the gauge and pod from Summit. Looks pretty good and really doesn't obstruct dash view. Did come with some ugly silver (bare metal) bolts that hold the gauge cup. Haven't had a chance to paint them or replace with black ones. I'll take a pic of it tomorrow and post.
Car runs on our crappy e10 93 everyday when my fiance drives it. I usually try to run it out and put 100 in it for some weekend fun. Got a buddy with a quick Dinan S2 M5 that I need to stay ahead of. LOL

Yep, I am the owner of DTP.

Regards,
Brent
:addict:Very nice! Just curious, have you done any highway pulls against the M5 in your RS6? If so, how'd you do? What does the Dinan S2 package consist of?

Have you ran your RS6 on 93 octane at the dragstrip? If so, what did it turn?

[10SecS4]

10 sec s4, did you buy that car used? If so maybe it was chipped?
Another thing is that you will be suprised, the beast doesnt trap that high on the track, yet it can beat alot of cars that trap higher.

As far as the boost coming off at launch. If you get the OCT tranny chip it lets you launch at 3000+ and it doesn't drop boost. When we had ours, all four tires will lost grip when launched like that. I am telling you its a feeling i had never experieced before in any car including my dads faster M5. Oh boy do i really miss that 600 lbft of torque.


BTW 10 sec s4, Hyperboost DV FTW. We had them when we had our RS6 with OCT, trouble free for over 40,000 miles. http://stratmosphere.com/hyperboost5.htm
That should clear any boost problems unless you have a hose leak or something.Yeah I bought it used but it definitely doesn't have a chip or flash. I've also logged the requested and actual boost and it's only pushing around 8-10psi depending on gear and load.

I'm not quite sure how a trans chip can raise the stall by 700-800 RPMs? Are you sure it was 3K and not 2K? That's really odd.

I actually already have Revo, GIAC, and OCT software for this RS6. I got awesome deals on all of them used if you can believe it. I haven't tried any of them yet. I need to first figure some stuff out with the immobilizer and also get my APR ECUx program working on the RS6. :idea:

I'll never use any aftermarket diverter valves on any Audi. I run OEM Bosch 710N DVs ($35 each) on my S4 and they're just fine all the way on up to 25psi of boost. So I have a feeling they'll be fine on the RS6 too. :thumb:

[nyrs6]

I know its at least 2400 rpm I belive that the Euro versions you are able rev higher hence the times the magazines got. The US versions has a limiter so you dont launch it hard. Can anyone outside the US confirm this?

[nyrs6]

:revs: I just found this post from years ago, dont mind me it seems like i didnt know what i was talking about :hihi: .

But now that i found it, yes it for sure went up to 2500rpm and held. http://rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3742&page=2&highlight=Rev+limiter

[DuckWingDuck]

nyrs6 - you've not posted pics of your GTI yet! How're you liking it so far?

[Audi Fever]

Very nice! Just curious, have you done any highway pulls against the M5 in your RS6? If so, how'd you do? What does the Dinan S2 package consist of?


Thanks! Here is a link to the S2 mods: http://www.dinancars.com/Series.asp?Series=15&Chassis=13
Just a $27,461 upgrade! :brag: The 00 E39 M pulls strong though. Weighs a little over 3900 lbs. We have done some other mods on the M as well that has netted about 25 hp (pulleys, elec fan, filter mod for better flow). The M will pull about 1 1/2 cars to 150 on 93. On 100oct after adaptive has learned a little I have been as much as 3-4 cars ahead. All depends what mph we start at. The M ran a best of 12.48@111+ powershifting on 275 Nitto RII's.
BTW, he bought the car for $34k with all the mods and 65k miles about 4 mos ago. Super clean car!

What drivetrain mods do you have done to the S4? I just told my friend that bought my S4 what yours ran. That thing is sick!! Amazing it's going that fast on stock K04's! Weight reduction can do wonders though.
What MBC would you recommend for my TT? Running a cheapo air compressor regulator now with about 28-29 psi. Just put it on today. Was running about 26 psi and would spike a little higher and the N75 would dump boost to 21-22 and bring back to 25-26. Boost response is slower now though but pulls hard up top. Thinking about going with the Profec Spec B for ease of adjustability inside the car



I'll never use any aftermarket diverter valves on any Audi. I run OEM Bosch 710N DVs ($35 each) on my S4 and they're just fine all the way on up to 25psi of boost. So I have a feeling they'll be fine on the RS6 too.


Yep, no problems with the 710N's!



I actually already have Revo, GIAC, and OCT software for this RS6. I got awesome deals on all of them used if you can believe it. I haven't tried any of them yet. I need to first figure some stuff out with the immobilizer and also get my APR ECUx program working on the RS6


Keep us posted on this. Would love to see the results. I know you'll try them all. :burnout: