New RS6 UK price

[Rutkowsky]

£77265 base :w: i can't afford it

[Rutkowsky]

But i still think it is good value to what you pay for

[Audifan92]

That's alot, how much is the M5 in the Uk?

[Bingocaller]

Or the E63?

[Rutkowsky]

BMW M5 saloon £65145, way cheaper!!

[Rutkowsky]

Merrc. E63 AMG saloon £67597 would much rather drive M5 just IMHO

[Audiphile]

But the RS6 is around 100 bhp more! And the quality is definitely above the M5 and E63 AMG. It's worth it. The interior alone is amazing.

[Rutkowsky]

But the RS6 is around 100 bhp more! And the quality is definitely above the M5 and E63 AMG. It's worth it. The interior alone is amazing.


I agree, being able to afford £12,5k more, RS6 will be no brainer really. Quality and performance should be mind boggling @580ps for a family car :thumb:
I can't wait to test drive it!! I wonder what's M brand going to come up with in response to RS6.. There is so much talk of twin turbo M5..

[RXBG]

and then there is the tunability. with a quick chip flash you're pulling another 50 hp more.

i suspect the M5 is due for a power bump. the new TT V8 makes 405 hp. with a new engine will come a higher price- somewhere in between the RS6 and current M5. and i bet there'll be an E65 with 600+ hp which will also cost considerably more.

[Leadfoot]

It's a I originally reckoned on (£75K) but it is worth the extra investment and for three key reasons.

1: IT'S AN AUDI RS6.
2: IT'S AN AUDI RS6 WITH 580HP
3: IT'S AN AUDI RS6 WITH 580HP AND 650NM. :D

[artur777]

It's a I originally reckoned on (£75K) but it is worth the extra investment and for three key reasons.

1: IT'S AN AUDI RS6.
2: IT'S AN AUDI RS6 WITH 580HP
3: IT'S AN AUDI RS6 WITH 580HP AND 650NM. :D

It seems to me that the engine should do more than 580hp due its torque figures and maximum rpm
It should be:

RS6 with 600+HP and 650NM

[Leadfoot]

It seems to me that the engine should do more than 580hp due its torque figures and maximum rpm
It should be:

RS6 with 600+HP and 650NM

Well 580ps is the official figure.;)

[artur777]

Well 580ps is the official figure.;)

It's underrated.
Look you say that it will have 610PS instead of 580PS
That means that real torque maximum is 690 Nm.

Next year we will know the truth.
And in my opinion first cars will @blue chip@ anyway.

[+44 Dave]

Please remember 77k is for the estate as well. The M5 estate is 70k (69500) in the UK. So the saloon ma even chop a few grand off the price.

Even still its worth it :rs6kiss:

[artur777]

When will be the saloon?
Could you tell me please?
I am not sure if it will be at all!

[Leadfoot]

It's underrated.
Look you say that it will have 610PS instead of 580PS
That means that real torque maximum is 690 Nm.

Next year we will know the truth.
And in my opinion first cars will @blue chip@ anyway.

I can only say what I hear and that is that the RS6's power is under-rated.

Nut like you said we will know the truth soon enough.

[Leadfoot]

When will be the saloon?
Could you tell me please?
I am not sure if it will be at all!

Ditto, but if there is going to be a saloon it will be shown along side the face-lift model of the A6 as this is what the saloon RS6 will be based on.

[artur777]

I can only say what I hear and that is that the RS6's power is under-rated.

Nut like you said we will know the truth soon enough.

When do you expect first road tests of the car?

[MPT]

£77265 base :w: i can't afford it

If this was the price in Denmark, i would buy it, without a blink.

Anyone here know when first ones will be delivered in Germany ?

EDIT: that's less than i first though. 77.000GBP is what a well-equiped Audi TT cost .. RS6 price will be 215.000-235.000GBP.

[artur777]

If this was the price in Denmark, i would buy it, without a blink.

Anyone here know when first ones will be delivered in Germany ?

EDIT: that's less than i first though. 77.000GBP is what a well-equiped Audi TT cost .. RS6 price will be 215.000-235.000GBP.

What crazy prices do you have in Denmark?

[Rutkowsky]

If this was the price in Denmark, i would buy it, without a blink.

Anyone here know when first ones will be delivered in Germany ?

EDIT: that's less than i first though. 77.000GBP is what a well-equiped Audi TT cost .. RS6 price will be 215.000-235.000GBP.


You must be joking!! The next question that springs to mind is what is the national average yearly wage? Or, how much say, a car mechanic can earn a month? Because if it is £10k, then you have no sympathy from me :hihi:
:cheers:

[Rutkowsky]

It all looks like RS6 again, will be the fastest production Audi car, i wonder how the fastest production BMW - M6 will compare in straight line :vhmmm: Ok, it looses. As far as i can remember, at Autobhan speeds, Audi in fast lane, would always have to move over to BMW. Seems times are changing

[artur777]

It all looks like RS6 again, will be the fastest production Audi car, i wonder how the fastest production BMW - M6 will compare in straight line :vhmmm: Ok, it looses. As far as i can remember, at Autobhan speeds, Audi in fast lane, would always have to move over to BMW. Seems times are changing

I am not sure.
As far as I know
M5 time is 13.8 sec from 0 to 200
and M6 time is even better - about 12.8 sec.
So if even Audi underrates its car it won'be able to post times better than 14 sec (instead of official 14.9 sec).
So advantages should be find in other things - interior, steering, handling, all-weather usability.
And one thing that disspoints me with RS6 is lack of LSD at rear axle. It surely should be there. And lack of it will reduce the dynamics and cornering spees significantly.

[Rutkowsky]

I am not sure.
As far as I know
M5 time is 13.8 sec from 0 to 200
and M6 time is even better - about 12.8 sec.
So if even Audi underrates its car it won'be able to post times better than 14 sec (instead of official 14.9 sec).
So advantages should be find in other things - interior, steering, handling, all-weather usability.
And one thing that disspoints me with RS6 is lack of LSD at rear axle. It surely should be there. And lack of it will reduce the dynamics and cornering spees significantly.


Excuse my ignorance.. but does RS4 have LSD?

[Leadfoot]

artur777,

We have done this argument to death, whether the M5 will be quicker or the RS6, only time will tell.

I know what I have been told and it's times are pretty impressive.

[+44 Dave]

When do you expect first road tests of the car?

Next few months if they are shipping in March.

[artur777]

artur777,

We have done this argument to death, whether the M5 will be quicker or the RS6, only time will tell.

I know what I have been told and it's times are pretty impressive.

Leadfoot, please tell me:

Have you been told that RS6 will be faster than M5 / M6 in straight line in dry conditions? Could you answer please exactly this question?

[Leadfoot]

Leadfoot, please tell me:

Have you been told that RS6 will be faster than M5 / M6 in straight line in dry conditions? Could you answer please exactly this question?


No need to repeat what I have wrote some weeks back, I would prefer you to work for your answer. :hihi:

[Rage]

No need to repeat what I have wrote some weeks back, I would prefer you to work for your answer. :hihi:

Its a simple question buddy.....why so cryptic?

Its not even tvrfan you are talking to:hahahehe:

[THM]

BMW M5 saloon £65145, way cheaper!!


wot?
in UK m5 is 50.000$ more then in US

why is it like that?
it doesnt make sense to me

[tvrfan]

Its a simple question buddy.....why so cryptic?

Its not even tvrfan you are talking to:hahahehe:

:blush: ...................................:nana: :w:

[artur777]

No need to repeat what I have wrote some weeks back, I would prefer you to work for your answer. :hihi:

You couldn't answer - no additional respect for this.
I knew about that.
Thanks anyway.

[AuditudeA642]

wot?
in UK m5 is 50.000$ more then in US

why is it like that?
it doesnt make sense to me

They have a higher tax on imports.

[Qisha]

Leadfoot, please tell me:

Have you been told that RS6 will be faster than M5 / M6 in straight line in dry conditions? Could you answer please exactly this question?

Dear artur777,

RS6 Sedan, yes. (M5 Sedan)

Qisha

[skiwi]

well, it does have quattro you know?

all quattro's in the current generation have a software "lsd" able to transfer torque across the axle using the individual brakes.

while quattro will always convey an advantage over just rwd, there is disappointment that the torque vector diff didn't make it to the rs6. this is a lot more than an lsd as it can be controlled actively to control the ability of the car to steer using the rear axle...


I am not sure.
As far as I know
M5 time is 13.8 sec from 0 to 200
and M6 time is even better - about 12.8 sec.
So if even Audi underrates its car it won'be able to post times better than 14 sec (instead of official 14.9 sec).
So advantages should be find in other things - interior, steering, handling, all-weather usability.
And one thing that disspoints me with RS6 is lack of LSD at rear axle. It surely should be there. And lack of it will reduce the dynamics and cornering spees significantly.

[Leadfoot]

OK, I hate putting my name to something which at best is speculation.

What I have been told/hinted was that the RS6 will post a 100km/h time in the very low fours (4.1~4.3s), the 160km/h run will be over in another 5 seconds or so (9.1~9.4) and the 200km/h in mid thirteens (13.3~13.6s). The real surprise will be above this speed as I believe it will pull harder than the M5 so while the two aren't to far apart up to these speeds I reckon the RS6 will pull clear air from this point on.

Is that enough info for now.

P.S.

This info did not come from my normal source, that is why I said 'speculation'. :blush:

[Leadfoot]

Artur777,

Am I not correct in saying that the times you are quoting for the M5 and M6 were achieved Stateside.

[Leadfoot]

well, it does have quattro you know?

all quattro's in the current generation have a software "lsd" able to transfer torque across the axle using the individual brakes.

while quattro will always convey an advantage over just rwd, there is disappointment that the torque vector diff didn't make it to the rs6. this is a lot more than an lsd as it can be controlled actively to control the ability of the car to steer using the rear axle...

I believe the Sports Diff (as some are calling it) has three settings much like the suspension settings that Audi are offering with the new A4. It will be very interesting to see how different it will make the car perform and feel compare to a non-sports diff car.

The only fly in the ointment is that BMW are starting to introduce their own version of this as well, at the minute it's only in the new X6 but chances are it will make it's way in to the other off-roaders and might even make it to the normal rwd cars like the 3series. So Audi's advantage might be short lived.

[Rutkowsky]

It will be soooo interesting to see Audi vs BMW again, can't wait. From what i see, the new RS6 gets a lot of interest from M owners. I am no different :jlol:
Don't mean to start anything, but after a bit of thinking, i've come to a conclusion that, the M6 might still be faster. Still, horses for courses and It is no use, asking M v10 owners, would they change for RS6
:cheers:

[MPT]

You must be joking!! The next question that springs to mind is what is the national average yearly wage? Or, how much say, a car mechanic can earn a month? Because if it is £10k, then you have no sympathy from me :hihi:
:cheers:

In general wages are quite high in Denmark. Very little poverty. We're alright :).

Guess a mechanic earns between £2000 and £2500 a month.

As said before, when cars are imported to Denmark, there comes 25% VAT. Then 180% tax.

What you would call insane regarding insuranse, environmental tax and other expense we would quite literally call cheap.

Stock TT 2.0T like mine costs about £62.000 + optional extras (there's also 180% tax on these).

My Q7 van 3.0TDI (van because of a lot less tax, but yearly "punishment-tax" of about £700 because of big 4X4) costs about £60.000 + optional extras..

This is not to show off^^. Just to show, just how lucky you are :)

[artur777]

Dear artur777,

RS6 Sedan, yes. (M5 Sedan)

Qisha

Dear Qisha,
thanks for the answer.
It is very important to know for Audi fans.
And will we see RS6 Sedan in 2008?

BR,
artur777

[artur777]

Excuse my ignorance.. but does RS4 have LSD?

RS4 doesn't have LSD
But it weighs at 1650 kg and RS6 - at 2 tonns!

[artur777]

OK, I hate putting my name to something which at best is speculation.

What I have been told/hinted was that the RS6 will post a 100km/h time in the very low fours (4.1~4.3s), the 160km/h run will be over in another 5 seconds or so (9.1~9.4) and the 200km/h in mid thirteens (13.3~13.6s). The real surprise will be above this speed as I believe it will pull harder than the M5 so while the two aren't to far apart up to these speeds I reckon the RS6 will pull clear air from this point on.

Is that enough info for now.

P.S.

This info did not come from my normal source, that is why I said 'speculation'. :blush:

Leadfoot, the info seems to be quite reasonable.
Thus, RS6 Sedan will be faster than M5!
and then RS5 should be faster than M6? - probably

Anyway, thanks for your answer, because your opinions are always quite reasonable and interesting to know.

[artur777]

Artur777,

Am I not correct in saying that the times you are quoting for the M5 and M6 were achieved Stateside.

It seems to me that in the USA.
Do you think in Europe times will be lower?

[artur777]

I believe the Sports Diff (as some are calling it) has three settings much like the suspension settings that Audi are offering with the new A4. It will be very interesting to see how different it will make the car perform and feel compare to a non-sports diff car.

The only fly in the ointment is that BMW are starting to introduce their own version of this as well, at the minute it's only in the new X6 but chances are it will make it's way in to the other off-roaders and might even make it to the normal rwd cars like the 3series. So Audi's advantage might be short lived.

It seems to me that SportDiff will improve 2 things:
1) acceleration - because of transferring torque to a better gripped wheel
2) cornering speed - because of transferring torque to an external / internal wheel depending on the road situation

[artur777]

In general wages are quite high in Denmark. Very little poverty. We're alright :).

Guess a mechanic earns between £2000 and £2500 a month.

As said before, when cars are imported to Denmark, there comes 25% VAT. Then 180% tax.

What you would call insane regarding insuranse, environmental tax and other expense we would quite literally call cheap.

Stock TT 2.0T like mine costs about £62.000 + optional extras (there's also 180% tax on these).

My Q7 van 3.0TDI (van because of a lot less tax, but yearly "punishment-tax" of about £700 because of big 4X4) costs about £60.000 + optional extras..

This is not to show off^^. Just to show, just how lucky you are :)

Uhhhhhhhhhh!
Taxes in Denmark are too high in my opinion!!!!
I understand your last phrase very well....

[Rutkowsky]

Leadfoot, the info seems to be quite reasonable.
Thus, RS6 Sedan will be faster than M5!
and then RS5 should be faster than M6? - probably

Anyway, thanks for your answer, because your opinions are always quite reasonable and interesting to know.


RS5 quicker than //Mighty M6? :MTM: Never :jlol:
I drove that car many times and i know what my buttometer tells me.. :hihi:

[Rutkowsky]

In general wages are quite high in Denmark. Very little poverty. We're alright :).

Guess a mechanic earns between £2000 and £2500 a month.

As said before, when cars are imported to Denmark, there comes 25% VAT. Then 180% tax.

What you would call insane regarding insuranse, environmental tax and other expense we would quite literally call cheap.

Stock TT 2.0T like mine costs about £62.000 + optional extras (there's also 180% tax on these).

My Q7 van 3.0TDI (van because of a lot less tax, but yearly "punishment-tax" of about £700 because of big 4X4) costs about £60.000 + optional extras..

This is not to show off^^. Just to show, just how lucky you are :)


£2.5 - 3K is not bad then. About the same what in London. Still, crazy prices :MTM:

[Rutkowsky]

RS4 doesn't have LSD
But it weighs at 1650 kg and RS6 - at 2 tonns!


Massive difference then but RS6 @ 2000kg? They have to be joking :vhmmm:

[Rutkowsky]

New M3 weighs about 60 kg more to e46 M3, which is understandable - Reinforced chasis, gearbox due to more power etc. And how the current RS6 compares to new one, weight wise?

[Rage]

RS5 quicker than //Mighty M6? :MTM: Never :jlol:
I drove that car many times and i know what my buttometer tells me.. :hihi:

Why not?

The M6 is listed as 0-62 in 4.6 sec

Compare that to the C63 0-62 in 4.5 sec, M3 in 4.8 sec.

I imagine the RS5 will be designed to compete with all of the above:)

Current S5 weighs 1630kg, M6 weighs 1710 (Car magazine data)

I think (and hope) the RS5 can match it. I appreciate though that the butt-o-meter is much more important than numbers and tests.

[Rutkowsky]

Why not?

The M6 is listed as 0-62 in 4.6 sec

Compare that to the C63 0-62 in 4.5 sec, M3 in 4.8 sec.

I imagine the RS5 will be designed to compete with all of the above:)

Current S5 weighs 1630kg, M6 weighs 1710 (Car magazine data)

I think (and hope) the RS5 can match it. I appreciate though that the butt-o-meter is much more important than numbers and tests.

M6; 1710kg, which includes driver - 75kg and half tank petrol. Also you have 507bhp and 7 lightening fast gears to manage power. 4.6s is not that accurate, it is a bit quicker

[Rutkowsky]

Also, that would mean, RS5 faster than RS6?? Audi would never allowed that IMO

[Rage]

RS6 is 4.3....no?

Edit.....oh yeah, officially its 4.6

Thing is BMW/AMG/Lexus are all raising their game - The RS5 is expected to be a step beyond the RS4. I would bet (pure speculation) that it would be rated 4.5-4.7 0-62.

Guess only time will tell......if i dont get an aneurysm from waiting ;)

[artur777]

Massive difference then but RS6 @ 2000kg? They have to be joking :vhmmm:

For the car with such weight LSD is needed badly!
Also previous RS6 was at 1850-1900 kg.

[artur777]

RS6 is 4.3....no?

Edit.....oh yeah, officially its 4.6

Thing is BMW/AMG/Lexus are all raising their game - The RS5 is expected to be a step beyond the RS4. I would bet (pure speculation) that it would be rated 4.5-4.7 0-62.

Guess only time will tell......if i dont get an aneurysm from waiting ;)

Hard to make any predictions.
Surely that M6 is lightning quick - very close to Gallardo and 911 Turbo.
RS5 will be slower of course -I see now. But not that much, because RS5 should compete with M3 CSL!

[artur777]

Also, that would mean, RS5 faster than RS6?? Audi would never allowed that IMO

Agree with you!
Marketing policy is in priority.
Though Qisha wrote that RS6 would be faster than M5 sedan.
That means RS5 will faster than M3 and should compete with new M3 CSL, which will be also very fast - not that much slow than M6.
What you think?

[Rage]

Hard to make any predictions.
Surely that M6 is lightning quick - very close to Gallardo and 911 Turbo.
RS5 will be slower of course -I see now. But not that much, because RS5 should compete with M3 CSL!

No.

Gallardo and 911 Turbo are totally different league. Look up the 0-62mph data if you want an objective difference.

The RS5 does not compete with the CSL. The CSL is a hardcore trackday monster. No radio, manual door windows, NO FRILLS. The RS5 may offer competing performance (very unlikely in my opinion) but it wont be intended as a competitor. No doubt the Benchmark at Quattro GMBH will be the M3 and C63.

[DuckWingDuck]

It's beyond me what the RS5 competes with because it's a comfortable as hell right but I think the Civic down the street can beat it.

[artur777]

No.

Gallardo and 911 Turbo are totally different league. Look up the 0-62mph data if you want an objective difference.

The RS5 does not compete with the CSL. The CSL is a hardcore trackday monster. No radio, manual door windows, NO FRILLS. The RS5 may offer competing performance (very unlikely in my opinion) but it wont be intended as a competitor. No doubt the Benchmark at Quattro GMBH will be the M3 and C63.

Reasonable, but:
1) Gallardo and 911 Turbo are faster at 0-62 because of AWD. After that M6 starts to chase them because of RWD advantage. So I saw videos where M6 was faster than Gallardo up to 250 km/h and was not that much slower than 911 Turbo
2) RS5 will not compete with CSL - agree. Different marketing positioning of course. But look: M3-M3 CSL, C63-C63 PerfPack, S5-RS5. This logic? or not? Where is the truth?

[Rutkowsky]

Reasonable, but:
1) Gallardo and 911 Turbo are faster at 0-62 because of AWD. After that M6 starts to chase them because of RWD advantage. So I saw videos where M6 was faster than Gallardo up to 250 km/h and was not that much slower than 911 Turbo
2) RS5 will not compete with CSL - agree. Different marketing positioning of course. But look: M3-M3 CSL, C63-C63 PerfPack, S5-RS5. This logic? or not? Where is the truth?

perfect logic there actually

[Rutkowsky]

Agree with you!
Marketing policy is in priority.
Though Qisha wrote that RS6 would be faster than M5 sedan.
That means RS5 will faster than M3 and should compete with new M3 CSL, which will be also very fast - not that much slow than M6.
What you think?

M3 CSL with the new gearbox will be seriously quick. I've got some good info in regards to CSL. One thing that you must've guessed is, that it will beat e46 M3 CSL 7.50 ring time. Second, should be just as fast as e60 M5 to 200km/h ;)

[Leadfoot]

My God, I go to sleep and this thread goes mad. :eye:

Artur777,

You are correct in saying that Qisha did think the RS6 will be quicker than the M5, but was that statement regarding the possible saloon or the avant, if he was talking about the avant then it's quite possible that the saloon version which historically have weighs up to 130Kgs less could possibly be as quick as the M6...........No. :brag:

The figures I have quoted came from an Audi UK source who was at the interior viewing to dealers of the car, so this is why I am not to confident on it's reliability as there would have been numerous dealers at these things and no one else has ported anything.

Though the same guy did inform me that the S5 would be capable of 4.6s (0-62.5mph) and 18.6s (0-125mph) and both of these figures were achieved, so who know. ;)

[Leadfoot]

As for the RS5, well all of this chat is pure speculation, as of yet we don't even know what engine it will be getting, how much power and torque it will have and if for sure it will get the 7sp DSG.

We have a rough idea that the car will have in excess of 450~480hp and it's torque could be upwards of 500Nm as this is believed to be the limit for the new DSG, we can also guess that the car won't weigh any more than the S5 (maybe even less). So based on all of this one could assume that the RS5 if it produces 480hp and weighs roughly the same as the M6 (allowing for the different ways of weighing) and will have a quicker shift rate (DSG vs SMG) with the same amount of gears then I reckon that up to 130mph at least the RS5 will be as quick as the M6.

[artur777]

M3 CSL with the new gearbox will be seriously quick. I've got some good info in regards to CSL. One thing that you must've guessed is, that it will beat e46 M3 CSL 7.50 ring time. Second, should be just as fast as e60 M5 to 200km/h ;)

If your info is correct - the car will be a real track monster!

[artur777]

perfect logic there actually
Thanks! Let's see his opinion

[artur777]

My God, I go to sleep and this thread goes mad. :eye:

Artur777,

You are correct in saying that Qisha did think the RS6 will be quicker than the M5, but was that statement regarding the possible saloon or the avant, if he was talking about the avant then it's quite possible that the saloon version which historically have weighs up to 130Kgs less could possibly be as quick as the M6...........No. :brag:

The figures I have quoted came from an Audi UK source who was at the interior viewing to dealers of the car, so this is why I am not to confident on it's reliability as there would have been numerous dealers at these things and no one else has ported anything.

Though the same guy did inform me that the S5 would be capable of 4.6s (0-62.5mph) and 18.6s (0-125mph) and both of these figures were achieved, so who know. ;)

Leadfoot, thanks for the answer.
RS6 Sedan faster than M5 Sedan- ok.
RS6 Sedan slower than M6 Coupe - ok.

So this figures are the best possible achieved by Audi, but look it's not always dry conditions and low temperature for the turbo.

Why this thread gone crazy??? ;-)

[Leadfoot]

If your info is correct - the car will be a real track monster!

Well it is logical to believe that BMW won't take a backward step with the performance of the new M3CSL so one can expect it's time to be better than the old CSL and probably close to that of the 997GT3 or GT3RS. Acceleration should also be closer to that of the M6 as it too like the RS5 will be putting out in excess of 450hp and will weigh even less than the Audi.

[artur777]

As for the RS5, well all of this chat is pure speculation, as of yet we don't even know what engine it will be getting, how much power and torque it will have and if for sure it will get the 7sp DSG.

We have a rough idea that the car will have in excess of 450~480hp and it's torque could be upwards of 500Nm as this is believed to be the limit for the new DSG, we can also guess that the car won't weigh any more than the S5 (maybe even less). So based on all of this one could assume that the RS5 if it produces 480hp and weighs roughly the same as the M6 (allowing for the different ways of weighing) and will have a quicker shift rate (DSG vs SMG) with the same amount of gears then I reckon that up to 130mph at least the RS5 will be as quick as the M6.

It's a pure speculation, but we for 100% understand that RS5 can't be slower than C63 or M3! or even C63 PP and M3 CLS in some ways!

We would like it to have 480 hp and 7sp DSG and SportDiff!
Comparing its more or less similar weight to M5 and talking about AWD advantage at start - my prediction is that it will keep with M6 up to 100mph.

Though only next year we will get and see it.
We should not forget that next year facelifted M5 and M6 will be presented. And initially BMW was going to present just 20-30 hp increase, but now I saw some spy shots in the net talking about 575 hp and V10TT for M5 and M6. Then M5/M6 become totally crazy car.

One to say for sure: we live in very interesting times!

[Leadfoot]

Leadfoot, thanks for the answer.
RS6 Sedan faster than M5 Sedan- ok.
RS6 Sedan slower than M6 Coupe - ok.

So this figures are the best possible achieved by Audi, but look it's not always dry conditions and low temperature for the turbo.

Why this thread gone crazy??? ;-)

No artur, I mean if Qisha is saying that the RS6Avant is quicker than the M5 saloon then they is a good chance that the RS6 saloon will be just as quick as the M6.

You know as well as I do that turbos prefer colder temperatures than a N/A engine but they did perform better at altitude. Also in most countries the weather is usually wetter than it is dry so the RS6 will in most occasions have the advantage over either of the two v10 M models.

[Leadfoot]

It's a pure speculation, but we for 100% understand that RS5 can't be slower than C63 or M3! or even C63 PP and M3 CLS in some ways!

We would like it to have 480 hp and 7sp DSG and SportDiff!
Comparing its more or less similar weight to M5 and talking about AWD advantage at start - my prediction is that it will keep with M6 up to 100mph.

Though only next year we will get and see it.
We should not forget that next year facelifted M5 and M6 will be presented. And initially BMW was going to present just 20-30 hp increase, but now I saw some spy shots in the net talking about 575 hp and V10TT for M5 and M6. Then M5/M6 become totally crazy car.

One to say for sure: we live in very interesting times!

Competition......................don't you just love it.

[artur777]

Competition......................don't you just love it.

Agree!!!!
And about Qisha: as far as I understand him he meant both sedans!
So we hope to see official perfomance figures of RS6 Sedan!

[Leadfoot]

Agree!!!!
And about Qisha: as far as I understand him he meant both sedans!
So we hope to see official perfomance figures of RS6 Sedan!

Only time will tell and that time should be within the next 6 weeks or there abouts.

[artur777]

Only time will tell and that time should be within the next 6 weeks or there abouts.

6 weeks only?
I thought abought Geneve - where A6 facelift should be presented due to all predictions. Though it's 8-9 weeks before that. But right you are - 6 weeks alsp may be, because info are always available 2 or 3 weeks vefore official presentation.

[Rutkowsky]

Don't you forget guys, about M6 CSL - a mad mad machine is being also tested, however, still very secretive all about it. I guess, ideas of adding twin turbos is putting any plans on hold!

[Rutkowsky]

My God, I go to sleep and this thread goes mad. :eye:

Artur777,

You are correct in saying that Qisha did think the RS6 will be quicker than the M5, but was that statement regarding the possible saloon or the avant, if he was talking about the avant then it's quite possible that the saloon version which historically have weighs up to 130Kgs less could possibly be as quick as the M6...........No. :brag:

The figures I have quoted came from an Audi UK source who was at the interior viewing to dealers of the car, so this is why I am not to confident on it's reliability as there would have been numerous dealers at these things and no one else has ported anything.

Though the same guy did inform me that the S5 would be capable of 4.6s (0-62.5mph) and 18.6s (0-125mph) and both of these figures were achieved, so who know. ;)


Went mad indeed!! My first thread on RS6.Com, good start :jlol: This is also clearly showing, how much everyone is awaiting the arrival of a beast
:cheers:

[artur777]

Don't you forget guys, about M6 CSL - a mad mad machine is being also tested, however, still very secretive all about it. I guess, ideas of adding twin turbos is putting any plans on hold!

Do you think M6 CSL is real?? Never heard.
Anyway if it is then it will a real beast also!!

[artur777]

Went mad indeed!! My first thread on RS6.Com, good start :jlol: This is also clearly showing, how much everyone is awaiting the arrival of a beast
:cheers:

Agree - went mad :cheers:
You are successful thread starter !

[Rutkowsky]

Agree - went mad :cheers:
You are successful thread starter !

Thanx :thumb:

P.S. Are you from Poland? Your name sounds Polish
:cheers:

[Leadfoot]

Don't you forget guys, about M6 CSL - a mad mad machine is being also tested, however, still very secretive all about it. I guess, ideas of adding twin turbos is putting any plans on hold!

I wonder whether the M6CSL will ever make it to production based on how successful the normal M6 has sold. Look at the percentage ratio for the E46 M3s compared to M3CSLs, if the same would be true of the M6 vs M6CSL then you can expect BMW to sell about 8 of them.

Sorry for making fun out of a failed product (M6).

BMW need only one CSL and it should be a 3 series.

[artur777]

Thanx :thumb:

P.S. Are you from Poland? Your name sounds Polish
:cheers:

:cheers:
I am not from Poland, but I have a lot of friends from Poland and some of them are Arturs:).
So it is - I live in Europe in different countries beacuse of my job:jlol:

[artur777]

I wonder whether the M6CSL will ever make it to production based on how successful the normal M6 has sold. Look at the percentage ratio for the E46 M3s compared to M3CSLs, if the same would be true of the M6 vs M6CSL then you can expect BMW to sell about 8 of them.

Sorry for making fun out of a failed product (M6).

BMW need only one CSL and it should be a 3 series.

Agree - M6's volume of sales is not that big.
So BMW will go forone CSL - it's legendary M3 CSL.

[Leadfoot]

Agree - M6's volume of sales is not that big.
So BMW will go forone CSL - it's legendary M3 CSL.

Well that is my opinion, I just don't see the logic of having more than one focused trackday car in your range. Some may disagree with me on this but I don't class the GT2 as Porsche's trackday car, that is the role of the GT3RS, the GT2 is a very fast very talented machine and way quicker is lots of way compared to the GT3RS but is that really the point.

I wish Audi did a trackday special in much the same way as Porsche and BMW do but which model would they use, the smart money would say the R8 but I fancy the idea of a trackday TT.

[Rutkowsky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYG9j8h0nPs just how extra weight influences acceleration ;)

M6 vs M6 convertible of course

[artur777]

Well that is my opinion, I just don't see the logic of having more than one focused trackday car in your range. Some may disagree with me on this but I don't class the GT2 as Porsche's trackday car, that is the role of the GT3RS, the GT2 is a very fast very talented machine and way quicker is lots of way compared to the GT3RS but is that really the point.

I wish Audi did a trackday special in much the same way as Porsche and BMW do but which model would they use, the smart money would say the R8 but I fancy the idea of a trackday TT.

TTRS probably will be that one!

[skiwi]

It seems to me that SportDiff will improve 2 things:
1) acceleration - because of transferring torque to a better gripped wheel
2) cornering speed - because of transferring torque to an external / internal wheel depending on the road situation

1) no - acceleration is improved by quattro (power to the front). weight transfer rearwards during acceleration loads both wheels equally. i remember from the time i owned an rs2 that, according to autocar, it was faster to 30mph than a mclaren f1. due to quattro.

2) this is where the advantage is at, moreso with quattro as you have the performance envelope at the front to use for traction as well. where the tvd comes into its own is that it can be used "actively" whereas previous (non-specialist) technology is basically reactive. thus you can bias torque across the rear diff in corner entry to favour the outside wheel and reduce understeer, and then reduce the bias for corner exit.

you must not forget the effect that this has on the torsen diff as well. if you can actively control the rear diff, then you can also control the torque presented (1 of the 3 inputs to it) to the torsen and move the management of this to more of an open system. i imagine that this would take quite some time to figure out and get right.

the torsen diff allows a bias ratio of about 3:1 (depending on the model) before it opens up. the torque is managed across the diff based on traction (ability to support the torque). by managing the rear tractive input, you will better manage the behaviour of the torsen and present more torque to the front end.

if audi gets this right, it will be a major advance of quattro and continue to demonstrate to the world the advantages of awd.

the shame is that audi had technology like this available a long time ago but chose not to deploy it - now others are.

[Leadfoot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYG9j8h0nPs just how extra weight influences acceleration ;)

M6 vs M6 convertible of course

I might be wrong but what I saw in the first race was the M6 Coupe getting the jump, in the second race the two seems to be pretty even with the Coupe only getting a length or so to 120mph.

[Leadfoot]

if audi gets this right, it will be a major advance of quattro and continue to demonstrate to the world the advantages of awd.

I believe it has been part of a development programme for well over a year now so chances are they have got it mastered. :thumb:


the shame is that audi had technology like this available a long time ago but chose not to deploy it - now others are.

I wonder was this VW's influence or was it a case of Audi's policy back then was more of safety first and driving pleasure second. I don't we will never know the answer to that one. :vhmmm:

[artur777]

1) no - acceleration is improved by quattro (power to the front). weight transfer rearwards during acceleration loads both wheels equally. i remember from the time i owned an rs2 that, according to autocar, it was faster to 30mph than a mclaren f1. due to quattro

why no? I mean that torque of course is transferred to front axle but better torque managing at rear axle also can help. I remeber the test of Porsche Carrera 911 4S with / without SportDiff (X50) - and the car with it was faster about 0.3 sec up to 100 km/h.
You can't transfer all torque to front axle and you know that road surface of right and left wheel could be different - so in my opinion it could be helpful. Quattro also helps a lot but SportDiff even more. What do you think?

[2) this is where the advantage is at, moreso with quattro as you have the performance envelope at the front to use for traction as well. where the tvd comes into its own is that it can be used "actively" whereas previous (non-specialist) technology is basically reactive. thus you can bias torque across the rear diff in corner entry to favour the outside wheel and reduce understeer, and then reduce the bias for corner exit.]

Agree in full!

[you must not forget the effect that this has on the torsen diff as well. if you can actively control the rear diff, then you can also control the torque presented (1 of the 3 inputs to it) to the torsen and move the management of this to more of an open system. i imagine that this would take quite some time to figure out and get right.

the torsen diff allows a bias ratio of about 3:1 (depending on the model) before it opens up. the torque is managed across the diff based on traction (ability to support the torque). by managing the rear tractive input, you will better manage the behaviour of the torsen and present more torque to the front end.]

You mean that an excess of torque at rear wheels could be transferred to front axle as in open system?

[if audi gets this right, it will be a major advance of quattro and continue to demonstrate to the world the advantages of awd.]

Agree in full.

the shame is that audi had technology like this available a long time ago but chose not to deploy it - now others are.

Also agree!

[artur777]

I might be wrong but what I saw in the first race was the M6 Coupe getting the jump, in the second race the two seems to be pretty even with the Coupe only getting a length or so to 120mph.

The results are quite different in 2 runs
Everything depends on the reaction and skill of a driver

[artur777]

I believe it has been part of a development programme for well over a year now so chances are they have got it mastered. :thumb:


:applause:


I wonder was this VW's influence or was it a case of Audi's policy back then was more of safety first and driving pleasure second. I don't we will never know the answer to that one. :vhmmm:

Audi is a little bit late with this technology at the market. :doh:

[skiwi]

skiwi said: [you must not forget the effect that this has on the torsen diff as well. if you can actively control the rear diff, then you can also control the torque presented (1 of the 3 inputs to it) to the torsen and move the management of this to more of an open system. i imagine that this would take quite some time to figure out and get right.

the torsen diff allows a bias ratio of about 3:1 (depending on the model) before it opens up. the torque is managed across the diff based on traction (ability to support the torque). by managing the rear tractive input, you will better manage the behaviour of the torsen and present more torque to the front end.]

You mean that an excess of torque at rear wheels could be transferred to front axle as in open system?

any excess of torque at the rear wheels will always be transferred to the front. don't forget that an "excess of torque" is wheelspin (actually, with the torsen, a little before this point). also note that, with the torsen, true wheelspin on 1 wheel will severely limit the total traction available and hence the torque available to be used. this is not something you want. a wheel wagging in the air for long enough will bring a torsen quattro to a halt (ebd is designed to prevent this happening @<80km/hr). the reason for this is that the torsen takes the lowest torque presented to it from one axle (or driveshaft), and allows for 3x that torque to be transferred to the other axle (or driveshaft). this is called the torque bias ratio. with the wheel wagging in the air, the torque supported by that axle is 0, and 3x0 =0 (close enough anyway).

there are high-bais torsens (5:1) which champion used for their early racing rs6's, but most centre trosens are 3:1. for reference a normal diff always spreads the torque equally across each shaft.

hence my statement about the ability of a tvd to prevent tractions loss (and hence torque loss) to the quattro system by increasing the ability of the rear axle to find traction, hence support torque - meaning more torque availlable for both ends of the car.

hth.

[artur777]

any excess of torque at the rear wheels will always be transferred to the front. don't forget that an "excess of torque" is wheelspin (actually, with the torsen, a little before this point). also note that, with the torsen, true wheelspin on 1 wheel will severely limit the total traction available and hence the torque available to be used. this is not something you want. a wheel wagging in the air for long enough will bring a torsen quattro to a halt (ebd is designed to prevent this happening @<80km/hr). the reason for this is that the torsen takes the lowest torque presented to it from one axle (or driveshaft), and allows for 3x that torque to be transferred to the other axle (or driveshaft). this is called the torque bias ratio. with the wheel wagging in the air, the torque supported by that axle is 0, and 3x0 =0 (close enough anyway).

there are high-bais torsens (5:1) which champion used for their early racing rs6's, but most centre trosens are 3:1. for reference a normal diff always spreads the torque equally across each shaft.

hence my statement about the ability of a tvd to prevent tractions loss (and hence torque loss) to the quattro system by increasing the ability of the rear axle to find traction, hence support torque - meaning more torque availlable for both ends of the car.

hth.

Now I get it in full.
So in new RS6 the torque bias basically is 1,5:1 with advantage to rear axle. But it can change up to 3:1 if needed

[audi_ch]

m5 standard vs gallardo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA5uEaW5ZnQ


as you can see, from 50 up to 250 this cars are equal.

Even if am not a big m fan, it is impressive what bmw made with this car.


m5 kelleners tuning vs the same gallardo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQAmQEoXNkg&feature=related


m6 vs m5 both standart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP2kyU9u3jc

if i whatch this video i am not to sure if the new rs6 will take the m5, first m5 is not mutch slower than m6 as you see on the vid, and not to forgett the quattro does eat horse power, and the rs witch will be a bit heavier

If you visite the germans audi forums, you will see how many horsepower on a tuned rs6 avant wear necessary to get the m5, we speak about a good 650 hspower or more tunned and well above 700 nm

of course time will tell, and till now just speculation. i personaly hope the rs6 will make it, but just not to sure above speeds of 200 kmh and more

(ok i now there are people witch says on those vids the m cars wins all time, but no there are videos were they lose as well, so i think the vids ar note faked)

see you

[tvrfan]

if you remember the RS6 mule was tested against the M5. Iam sure Audi wouldnt make their RS6 slower than the M5 ;-)

PS: that with the Torque at the Rear axle, does that mean that 3:1 torque would be avaible to rear axle if needed??? side question: would the RS6 have Torque Vectoring or just the same setup as the B7 RS4???

if it hadnt TQ i hope it will be standart included in the RS6 limo and then upgraded to the Avant. for a RS car it wouldnt be so good if its avaible as an option.

[skiwi]

Now I get it in full.
So in new RS6 the torque bias basically is 1,5:1 with advantage to rear axle. But it can change up to 3:1 if needed

the new torsens are basically the same technology, but are integrated with an epicyclic differential to make a static torque bias of 60:40 r:f. the older torsens had a static bias of 50:50. the eipcyclic diff will force this bias until the torsen overrides it based on traction. in the old torsen the static bias almost never played out as the bias (without an apicyclic diff) tends to mirror the weight distributon of the car i.e. 60:40 front/rear. i won't bore you with the reasons why. so a much more dynamic setup.

[skiwi]

PS: that with the Torque at the Rear axle, does that mean that 3:1 torque would be avaible to rear axle if needed??? side question: would the RS6 have Torque Vectoring or just the same setup as the B7 RS4???


correct. or, another way of saying this in a standing start is that excess torque is going to the front to be used in improving take-off. it is surprising how effective this is. the rs6 doesn't appear to have a tvd, although the sedan might. nothing definitive yet... leadfoot? qisha?

[tvrfan]

hm would suck if just the RS6 saloon will have TQ and Avant not.

[Leadfoot]

correct. or, another way of saying this in a standing start is that excess torque is going to the front to be used in improving take-off. it is surprising how effective this is. the rs6 doesn't appear to have a tvd, although the sedan might. nothing definitive yet... leadfoot? qisha?

I don't have all of the answers and this happens to be one of them. Though I won't have though that both models would be identically spec-ed with only the body type being the difference.

So in other words, if the saloon was to receive Quattro3 or should I call that Quattro2.5 as the Quattro3 is for the MLP platform, then the avant would have also received it.

[artur777]

the new torsens are basically the same technology, but are integrated with an epicyclic differential to make a static torque bias of 60:40 r:f. the older torsens had a static bias of 50:50. the eipcyclic diff will force this bias until the torsen overrides it based on traction. in the old torsen the static bias almost never played out as the bias (without an apicyclic diff) tends to mirror the weight distributon of the car i.e. 60:40 front/rear. i won't bore you with the reasons why. so a much more dynamic setup.

Thanks.
I see!

[artur777]

correct. or, another way of saying this in a standing start is that excess torque is going to the front to be used in improving take-off. it is surprising how effective this is. the rs6 doesn't appear to have a tvd, although the sedan might. nothing definitive yet... leadfoot? qisha?

IMHO, RS6 will NO have this technology
The first RS car to get it - RS5

[artur777]

hm would suck if just the RS6 saloon will have TQ and Avant not.

Agree - it's not that good for a heavy car

[artur777]

I don't have all of the answers and this happens to be one of them. Though I won't have though that both models would be identically spec-ed with only the body type being the difference.

So in other words, if the saloon was to receive Quattro3 or should I call that Quattro2.5 as the Quattro3 is for the MLP platform, then the avant would have also received it.

Agree - they will have same technologies on board
Again - first RS car to get it in full will be RS5

[Leadfoot]

Agree - they will have same technologies on board
Again - first RS car to get it in full will be RS5

I am not so sure you are correct in this, based on all the info currently available on the technology. Everyone of them are stating that this technology will be introduced in 2008 at some point, whether this means every Quattro car will receive it as standard or every Quattro car can purchase it as an option is unclear but it does sound like it won't be delayed until the RS5 is released.

P.S.

I do agree that chances are the RS5 will be the first RS model to receive it though might not be the first Audi.

[artur777]

I am not so sure you are correct in this, based on all the info currently available on the technology. Everyone of them are stating that this technology will be introduced in 2008 at some point, whether this means every Quattro car will receive it as standard or every Quattro car can purchase it as an option is unclear but it does sound like it won't be delayed until the RS5 is released.

P.S.

I do agree that chances are the RS5 will be the first RS model to receive it though might not be the first Audi.

Agree in full!