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KresoF1
December 22nd, 2007, 09:26
Nordschleife 8:24min

Hockenheim 1:18,8min

19" wheels...

Leadfoot
December 22nd, 2007, 10:40
Nordschleife 8:24min

Hockenheim 1:18,8min

19" wheels...

Any chance of posting the pictures from the magazine and how these results compare to the direct competition around it. Oh and if possible please post the RS4, C63 and M3 times as well just to see how much slower it is compared to these cars.

Thanks.:thumb:

Fab
December 22nd, 2007, 11:18
a bit disapointing I expected a bit better...

Leadfoot
December 22nd, 2007, 11:22
a bit disapointing I expected a bit better...

Agreed as it was hinted to me that it was capable of better than 8:20, I am wanting to see what the track conditions were like before losing heart completely.

Fab
December 22nd, 2007, 11:30
Track conditions are key obviously. Also it appeared that first ring chronos were "far" from the best capable car time such are R8, RS4, etc... We can objectively expect a bit better in the near future I supose.

KresoF1
December 22nd, 2007, 12:33
Any chance of posting the pictures from the magazine and how these results compare to the direct competition around it. Oh and if possible please post the RS4, C63 and M3 times as well just to see how much slower it is compared to these cars.

Thanks.:thumb:

Leadie,

I do not have scans yet...

Competitors? Here they are:

BMW 335i Coupe(manual)
Ring 8:26min
Hockenheim 1:17,8min

Porsche Cayman S(19", PASM, PCCB)
Ring 8:25min
Hockenheim 1:15,9min

Not(IMHO) competitors:

BMW M3 Coupe(19" Michelin Cup+, 280km/h limiter)
Ring 8:05min
Hockenheim 1:14,3min
BTW, Hockenheim 1:15,4min with standard 18" Michelin PS2

Audi RS4 Saloon(19" Corsas, 280km/h limiter, SS+)
Ring 8:09min
Hockenheim 1:15,4min

Here are few Hockenheim times only by Sport Auto as well as comparison...

Audi TT 2.0TFSI(Magnetic Ride, 18") 1:18,8min
Audi S6(19") 1:18,8min


Mercedes C63 AMG not yet officially tested by Sport Auto but, as a hint for you slower then M3 in full attack mode version(19", 030 Package with LSD, Corsa tirres and 280km/h limiter)...

KresoF1
December 22nd, 2007, 12:34
Track conditions are key obviously. Also it appeared that first ring chronos were "far" from the best capable car time such are R8, RS4, etc... We can objectively expect a bit better in the near future I supose.

Track conditions were almost the same as on RS4 Supertest...

Fab
December 22nd, 2007, 12:51
fine thanks for the info

which means the time can potentially be slightly better on any future re-attempt

KresoF1
December 22nd, 2007, 18:54
Few typos from me:

S5 Ring time is 8:26min-sorry Leadie... Weight is 1722kg...
BUT, Hockenheim time with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 is 1:17,2min! 1:18,8min time is with Dunlop Sport Maxx tires...

BMW 335i Ring time is 8:26min as well.

Ruergard
December 22nd, 2007, 20:24
Pretty much what I expected, thanks for the info!

Leadfoot
December 22nd, 2007, 20:33
Few typos from me:

S5 Ring time is 8:26min-sorry Leadie... Weight is 1722kg...
BUT, Hockenheim time with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 is 1:17,2min! 1:18,8min time is with Dunlop Sport Maxx tires...

BMW 335i Ring time is 8:26min as well.

Thanks mate, :thumb:

I am still surprised at it's ring time based on what I have been told internally, but I suppose the same was true for the RS4 and R8 which also produced way better times in the hand of Audi test drivers why should the S5 have been any different.

Have you any idea on the track conditions for both tracks at the time of the test?

P.S.

There is a hack of a difference between the Dunlops and the Michelins, I know one is the special rubber but still that is quite a difference. Does anyone know if that is an opinion over in the UK or not as I think given the choise I would pick it.

Maybe Qisha or Lateknight might know what is stock in the UK.

QuattroFun
December 22nd, 2007, 20:34
Decent numbers as a starting point for the RS5 I say - but the chosen concept really determines what we can expect from it. Light and responsive N/A engine and focus on making the most of a challenging basis chassis (still 57.5% over front axle) ala RS4 or bloated straightline turbo hammer ala RS6? Time will tell...

Leadfoot
December 22nd, 2007, 20:43
Decent numbers as a starting point for the RS5 I say - but the chosen concept really determines what we can expect from it. Light and responsive N/A engine and focus on making the most of a challenging basis chassis (still 57.5% over front axle) ala RS4 or bloated straightline turbo hammer ala RS6? Time will tell...

I was under the impression that the S5 had a 56~56.5% over the front axle. Clearly I was wrong sad to say.

Still that is an improve over the 61% from the RS4, so maybe with this improvement we can expect great things because the improvement the S5 has made against the old S4 with regards to feel and balance (though not much in lap times) should means it will be a better driver's car than ever before.

QuattroFun
December 22nd, 2007, 21:11
I was under the impression that the S5 had a 56~56.5% over the front axle. Clearly I was wrong sad to say.

Still that is an improve over the 61% from the RS4, so maybe with this improvement we can expect great things because the improvement the S5 has made against the old S4 with regards to feel and balance (though not much in lap times) should means it will be a better driver's car than ever before.

All true - but focus is the key here. The RS6 biturbo 5L V10 engine weighs 278kg vs. 220kg for S6 5.2L V10 - ceteris paribus, this extra 58kg translates into almost 3%-points of extra weight all over the front axle. It takes a lot of chassis work just to offset this frontloaded weight handicap. Just imagine what the new RS6 could have done dynamically with the new sport differential, a proper diet and a much lighter 4L V8 biturbo hanging over the front wheels...

KresoF1
December 22nd, 2007, 21:35
Thanks mate, :thumb:

I am still surprised at it's ring time based on what I have been told internally, but I suppose the same was true for the RS4 and R8 which also produced way better times in the hand of Audi test drivers why should the S5 have been any different.

Have you any idea on the track conditions for both tracks at the time of the test?

P.S.

There is a hack of a difference between the Dunlops and the Michelins, I know one is the special rubber but still that is quite a difference. Does anyone know if that is an opinion over in the UK or not as I think given the choise I would pick it.

Maybe Qisha or Lateknight might know what is stock in the UK.


Hockenheim track conditions were 10 Degree Celsius ambient temperature and 18 Degree Celsius tarmac temperature.

Regarding tires choice for S5 there is a "Miracle" tire for S5-new Pirelli P Zero The Hero(the same one that are standard on R8) in 255/35-19 dimension. With this tires S5 is capable to reach 8.20min on the Ring in right hands. Also Hockenheim time is around low 1:16,Xmin with new P Zeros...

It is the shame that 99% of all S5 are equiped with Dunlop SP Sport Maxx since both Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 and Pirelli P Zero The Hero are much better tires and with Michelin and Pirelli(specially!) S5 is much less prone to understeer.

Ruergard
December 22nd, 2007, 22:06
Hockenheim track conditions were 10 Degree Celsius ambient temperature and 18 Degree Celsius tarmac temperature.

Regarding tires choice for S5 there is a "Miracle" tire for S5-new Pirelli P Zero The Hero(the same one that are standard on R8) in 255/35-19 dimension. With this tires S5 is capable to reach 8.20min on the Ring in right hands. Also Hockenheim time is around low 1:16,Xmin with new P Zeros...

It is the shame that 99% of all S5 are equiped with Dunlop SP Sport Maxx since both Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 and Pirelli P Zero The Hero are much better tires and with Michelin and Pirelli(specially!) S5 is much less prone to understeer.

Very informative stuff all this, big thanks! As always I might say! :thumb:

Leadfoot
December 22nd, 2007, 23:30
Hockenheim track conditions were 10 Degree Celsius ambient temperature and 18 Degree Celsius tarmac temperature.

Regarding tires choice for S5 there is a "Miracle" tire for S5-new Pirelli P Zero The Hero(the same one that are standard on R8) in 255/35-19 dimension. With this tires S5 is capable to reach 8.20min on the Ring in right hands. Also Hockenheim time is around low 1:16,Xmin with new P Zeros...

It is the shame that 99% of all S5 are equiped with Dunlop SP Sport Maxx since both Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 and Pirelli P Zero The Hero are much better tires and with Michelin and Pirelli(specially!) S5 is much less prone to understeer.

Oh if only I had knew about these Pirelli P Zero tyres earlier I reckon I could have put the squeeze on the dealer for a set at the time of ordering but it's too late now. :cry:

Clio16V
December 23rd, 2007, 23:36
Scans are over here ;)

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/3300277a.jpghttp://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/3300277b.jpg`
http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/147974/3300277c.jpghttp://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/147974/3300277d.jpg
http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/3300277e.jpghttp://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/3300277f.jpg
http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/3300277g.jpghttp://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/3300277h.jpg
http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/3300277i.jpg

MPT
December 23rd, 2007, 23:40
The performance aside. God, that's a beautiful car :heart:.

Ruergard
December 23rd, 2007, 23:44
Wow, everytime I see it I just can't stop thinking.. damn that's a good looking car.. :bow:

Erik
December 24th, 2007, 10:32
Wow! Well ahead the BMW 335i in total points.

Leadfoot
December 26th, 2007, 18:59
Wow! Well ahead the BMW 335i in total points.

I have read the test now and it seems that the S5 and 335i were equal on points up to the wet handling test. So it depends on whether you live with lots of bad weather or not and whether you prefer that confidence inspiring feeling that the Quattro system provides over the rwd one in the BMW.

ellstimpo
December 26th, 2007, 20:27
Nordschleife 8:24min

Hockenheim 1:18,8min

19" wheels...

Times are meaningless without specifics. Track condition, tyres, driver etc etc:race:

Besides, lap times for the S5 is not something that bothers me one bit. I have one, i know how quick it is, i know what its capable of and i enjoy it :)

Leadfoot
December 28th, 2007, 12:11
I believe the driver was Horst himself and the track conditions were similar to when the RS4 did it's time and tyres were Michelin Pilot Sports.

The Hockenheim time was not 1:18.8 but 1:17.2 which is actually better than the 335i, though I don't know what tyres it was using as it runs those run-flat tyres.

Xpower
December 28th, 2007, 17:20
The Hockenheim time was not 1:18.8 but 1:17.2 which is actually better than the 335i, though I don't know what tyres it was using as it runs those run-flat tyres.

The glory run on cup tyres was 1:17.2, as can be seen by reading the text. The time on Michelin Pilot Sports was 1:18.8. But in order to draw meaningful conclusions from that, you need to put the opposition on cups as well.

Why is it on every test of an Audi there are always excuses and "it could have gone faster". In any test of any car, it could have gone faster. No-one ever gets a perfect run. Looking at the temps it looks like the S5 had good conditions.

Leadfoot
December 28th, 2007, 17:36
I think you are wrong, please re-check and see because according to what I was told was that the 1:18.8 time was conducted on Dunlops and the re-run was carried out because in some countries like the UK the Michelin PS are standard.

These are not CUP tyres but stock rubber.

By the way, who is really complaining about the times, I say early on that the time was slower than I have been told it's capable of. The same has been true of the RS4 and R8 and funny enough the R8 has being retested there it's time I believe has dropped by 5~6 seconds, this is not a small improvement.

Whether the S5 could improve by as much, who knows and the same may be true of a lot of cars.

Xpower
December 28th, 2007, 18:56
Read the text in the supertest. It's on the 1st page. They explain that 18.8 was the time on the street tyres. And all times are slower than the cars are capable of. Every car on the planet will go faster under ideal conditions. Unfortunately, ideal conditions occur very seldom for any car. How do you know that the opponents couldn't have gone faster if they had better conditions or tyres or whatever.

Leadfoot
December 28th, 2007, 19:45
Read the text in the supertest. It's on the 1st page. They explain that 18.8 was the time on the street tyres. And all times are slower than the cars are capable of. Every car on the planet will go faster under ideal conditions. Unfortunately, ideal conditions occur very seldom for any car. How do you know that the opponents couldn't have gone faster if they had better conditions or tyres or whatever.

I will check with my mate again and see what he has to say about the tyres used, but I am pretty sure he did say something about the first time was with Dunlops and the second time was with Pilot Sports, I am unsure if that means they were the CUP version but I reckon he would have said so.

When I get to speak to him I will come back to you. :thumb:

KresoF1
December 28th, 2007, 22:02
S5 time on Hockenheim 1:17,2min was with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires, NOT with Pilot Cup or Pilot Cup+ tires. It is pretty clear from the magazine(BTW, my German is a lot better then my English).

1:18,8min time is with Dunlop tires.

BTW, Michelin Cups even do not exist in 255/35-19 dimension http://www.michelin.de/de/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=20061113144109

Michelin tires on S5 were Pilot Sport PS2 http://www.michelin.de/de/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=20060216184602

QuattroFun
December 28th, 2007, 22:22
Hmm, this debate seems to be heating up again - but as far as I can read Kreso is quite right. Std Pilots, not Cups. Must say that the slalom and other handling values for the S5 from several tests and this in particular are impressive - right in line or even better than for the non-Corsa RS4. Not bad!

Leadfoot
December 28th, 2007, 22:32
Hmm, this debate seems to be heating up again - but as far as I can read Kreso is quite right. Std Pilots, not Cups. Must say that the slalom and other handling values for the S5 from several tests and this in particular are impressive - right in line or even better than for the non-Corsa RS4. Not bad!

Correct, the S5 and especially the MLP chassis is showing promise, like you pointed out the S5 has posted better figures in some tests compared to the RS4, though there is still a lot of work to be done to turn the S5 into a RS5 and thus better than either the RS4 or new M3.