RS4 vs M3 vs C63 on Top Gear on Sunday Dec 23

[Audifan92]

I found it off of a BMW forum, and thought i should share it with you guys
Here is the whole list of what they are going to do in that episode.

''In a display of German firepower not seen since the Bismarck, we pit the BMW M3, Mercedes C63 AMG and Audi RS4 against each other in a quest to find the king of the V8 super saloons.

Richard builds himself the best radio-controlled car in the world, while James takes a considered look at the car designed to drag Jaguar kicking and screaming into the 21st century - the XF.

And, with it being our last show of 2007, it wouldn't be complete without the massively influential Top Gear Awards.

Plus, our Time Lord in a reasonably priced car is Dr Who star David Tennant.''

[Audifan92]

The RS4 should do well against the BMW and the Benz
:rs4addict

[Damienr8]

Holy CRAP, I can't wait for this...

[The RS6]

Holy CRAP, I can't wait for this...

Yep
Should be epic, hope Audi wins...

+ TG Awards? Wonder how many awards the R8 will get :D

[Leadfoot]

I can't see anything other than a split decision.

But if this is not the case then personally I reckon they will put the C63 first as it's hard not to be won over by all of that power.:love2:

P.S.

On a lighter note, does anyone have an idea as to which each will be backing (driving).

My money is on JC driving the Merc.

[Audifan92]

Yea, and I guess that Richard will be driveing the M3 and James In the RS4

[Leadfoot]

Yea, and I guess that Richard will be driveing the M3 and James In the RS4

Why James driving the RS4? :eye:

What message is that saying, 'Captain slow drives the Audi' :doh:

[Audifan92]

Well... He drove the Q7 against I'd and he won

[Shatlak]

The RS4 should do well against the BMW and the Benz
:rs4addict

+1
I believe in Audi :rs4kiss:

[AndyBG]

Yes, but his title is still, CAPTAIN SLOW... I think that they are going to switch around and end up loving the totaly opposite car from the one they started in...

This will be the of the better shows... :applause:

[The RS6]

I kinda see Richard in the M3, because of the looks and the image of the beemer. I'd like to see captain slow in the most powerfull car - the AMG because of the fancy cool image the Merc is trying to make. And then Jeremy in the RS4 because he loved it...

Maybe the show will start with him driving the RS4 and saying something like "this was the king of V8's in the last few years, now these 2 have come, let's se what's what..."

[Fab]

Looking forward to it.

This will be "the final judgment" :idea:

lets keep the faith :rs4kiss: :rs4addict :rs4kiss:

[Leadfoot]

I agree, Hamster is the most logical choice to put in the M3, in the last comparison test with a BMW in the mix Richard drove it and he currently drives another focused sportscar (Carrera S) so I reckon you all will be right picking Richard with the M3.

I love the idea of Captain Slow in the fastest car there, it just makes me laugh. And I hope JC is in the Audi as he is the boss and as such he has 3 votes to Hamster's and May's 1. :hihi:

[Fab]

Yes and I also remember Hamster looking :bigeyes: at Jeremy when JC said that the RS4 is better than the M3. Hamster is definitely a M3 fan or as you said more attracted by "more focused/driver cars"

My bet is : JC/RS4, Hamster/M3, Captain slow/C63

Anyway a great show in perspective :wo:

[hbk]

:rs4addict

Do you want to know the results?

[The RS6]

LoL, from the TG Web site...

http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/

Then at 8pm we get the last Top Gear of the series, which sees the boys triple testing the new BMW M3 against a Merc C63 AMG and an Audi RS4, to find out which one handles the best and which one makes you look like a hair-gelled weasel.

hahaha
Will the latter be the beemer or the merc? Could be either one... :D

[Fab]

:hihi: :hihi: I easily imagine Jeremy's comments on that subject about the M3 and Merc :hihi: :hihi:

[Clio16V]

Apparently the result been leaked

"The results are no one clear winner but it they decide as follows:

Clarkson chooses the AMG C63 as the winner - for it's sheer grunt.
James May chooses the RS4 for it's discretion
Richard Hammon chooses the M3 for it's interaction

The AMG 63 wins the drag (shock horror), M3 2nd, RS4 3rd
The RS4 again comes last round the track , but not sure which won out of the M3 & AMG.

(a contact from the show has leaked this) - enjoy on TV in UK on 23rd Dec"

[Fab]

as a nutchell : nothing new from what we aready know :cheers:

lets enjoy the show on 23rd though :cool2:

[hbk]

This is what I heard from other forum:

In the drag race the RS got off to good an early start but lost out to the C63 which came first and the M3 in second. But it was very close and the RS was being driven by James May.

On the circuit the RS also came last but again, only just. This time with the stig at the wheel.

The conclusion was that they're all great cars and each has it's own character.

They did give the M3 some stick though as being a 'rep mobile' and the C63 lost out due to it's binary traction control system and automatic gearbox.

[hbk]

Wait for the stick from you friends or enemies

[MPT]

Any way to watch this, if you don't live in UK ?

When will it be uploadet as torrent ?

[hbk]

Any way to watch this, if you don't live in UK ?


Give it a day and it'll probably be on Youtube.

[Rage]

Any way to watch this, if you don't live in UK ?

When will it be uploadet as torrent ?

You can get virtually all top gear and fifth gear shows on www.finalgear.com (http://www.finalgear.com) as a torrent

LOL, im a lurker on the M3 and C63 forums (think i recognise a few members over here posting over there) and this triple test is big news on all the forums!

Awaiting the show anxiously......and the fallout!

[Audifan92]

Www.finalgear.com works if you dont live in the UK
and hope that the RS4 beats the M3 or C63 in something

[tvrfan]

Www.finalgear.com works if you dont live in the UK
and hope that the RS4 beats the M3 or C63 in something

in looks and quality. but not in performance ;)

[Audifan92]

They should compare them in the wet next time around
:rs4addict

[Rutkowsky]

They should compare them in the wet next time around
:rs4addict

:doh: But it's not that it rains 24/7 365 days a year, is it? Wet/dry test would be more appropiate

[Cristy]

the m3 was the 4 doors saloon?

[Fab]

the coupe probably

[Rutkowsky]

:jlol: Who watched tonights Top Gear? M3 did really well i thought and after tonights Merc test i don't think i'd be comfortable buying this car.. The track test was .. exciting :jlol:

[Leadfoot]

:jlol: Who watched tonights Top Gear? M3 did really well i thought and after tonights Merc test i don't think i'd be comfortable buying this car.. The track test was .. exciting :jlol:

Just finished watching it (had to pause Sky to put kids to bed) and I must agree that the M3 won the contest hands down. To me being an Audi man at heart the Mercedes C63 didn't fair as well as the RS4, it looked to me to be all over the place, even in the hands of the Stig and as we all know the RS4 is as sure-footed as a hi-performance car can get, so to me it came a close second to the BMW (admittedly 5 seconds on the track isn't that close).

P.S.

And for all you RS4 drivers out there, you can boast to having the biggest knob. :D

[Phage]

And for all you RS4 drivers out there, you can boast to having the biggest knob. :D

Dang you beat me to it :jlol:

But the 'old' RS4 holds itself pretty well. :0:

[Rutkowsky]

Just finished watching it (had to pause Sky to put kids to bed) and I must agree that the M3 won the contest hands down. To me being an Audi man at heart the Mercedes C63 didn't fair as well as the RS4, it looked to me to be all over the place, even in the hands of the Stig and as we all know the RS4 is as sure-footed as a hi-performance car can get, so to me it came a close second to the BMW (admittedly 5 seconds on the track isn't that close).

P.S.

And for all you RS4 drivers out there, you can boast to having the biggest knob. :D


The biggest knob :jlol: respect to RS4 anyway

[Rutkowsky]

I liked the Hamster comment to JC "so you like the car that is trying to kill you"? :jlol:

[hbk]

They should compare them in the wet next time around

If it was wet, it would have been a different story.........:rs4kiss:

[Rutkowsky]

If it was wet, it would have been a different story.........:rs4kiss:


But it was dry and it was a different story :hihi:

[AndyBG]

I don't recognise the resuts, this wasn't the fair contest, M3 was coupe, not the sedan, so no recognition from me... :hihi:

Just kidding, I'm sorry to hear that RS 4 didn't finish any discipline in first place... AND I HATE THEM B/C THEY GAVE IT TO CAPTAIN SLOW TO DRIVE IT !!! :cry: :cry:

[raulg]

I don't recognise the resuts, this wasn't the fair contest, M3 was coupe, not the sedan, so no recognition from me... :hihi:

Just kidding, I'm sorry to hear that RS 4 didn't finish any discipline in first place... AND I HATE THEM B/C THEY GAVE IT TO CAPTAIN SLOW TO DRIVE IT !!! :cry: :cry:

Hey, it's a 3 years old car based on a 7 years old chassis against a brand new C63 and a brand new M3 (based on a year old chassis or so). Both cars were designed to beat the crap out of RS4, and they do that, well not so good but they DO do it. It's only fair to give credits to the other 2 cars, excelent cars.

I still wonder how RS4 times (either 7:58 or 8:09) are so close to M3 time of 8:05, that shows the RS4 is not too old to be a nice "super" car.

[AndyBG]

Hey, it's a 3 years old car based on a 7 years old chassis against a brand new C63 and a brand new M3 (based on a year old chassis or so). Both cars were designed to beat the crap out of RS4, and they do that, well not so good but they DO do it. It's only fair to give credits to the other 2 cars, excelent cars.

I still wonder how RS4 times (either 7:58 or 8:09) are so close to M3 time of 8:05, that shows the RS4 is not too old to be a nice "super" car.

Of course that those are younger, but I'm just subjective, I wanted RS 4 to win, B/C in everyday use RS 4 will outperform both of these cars, I'm more than sure.

:cheers:

[Leadfoot]

Of course that those are younger, but I'm just subjective, I wanted RS 4 to win, B/C in everyday use RS 4 will outperform both of these cars, I'm more than sure.

:cheers:

I would have said the same prior to driving the new M3 based on past experience of the breed, but this time round BMW has taken the RS4 very seriously indeed and catered to Audi's customers as much as their own.

Too me the only loser in this test was the C63, it's rating among mags seems to be way higher than what was achieved in the show and based on JC's behaviour I believe it's result was real and it really isn't that great after all.

I think the RS4 can hold it's head high among these two as for a design which is 7 years old and a car which went on sale 3 years ago it's result was better than I expected. :rs4kiss:

[tvrfan]

HERE IS THE VIDEO ! ! !

PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZXrhBudfZw

PART2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAZC2onYrUE

PART3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtvMVp5C8oQ


EnJoY !

[Rutkowsky]

I also thought RS4 did well but i got a little worried when understeer forced the car off the track!! :MTM: As far as M3 is concerned - The car received a negative welcome from current CSL M3 owners and am glad that it performs as it does. Me being half BMW half Audi guy, i like to think of new M3 as BMW's RS4 with RWD - I test drove it extensively on three occasions and it is a RWD Audi with BMW badges :hihi: The grip and balance and speed is suficient for what i will need it for, it is much more agile than M6/5. There is a guy over at MTorque.co.uk that owns M5 and M6 plus new M3. He say even in wet M3 is good unlike M6/5 which can be a handful

[Rutkowsky]

I would have said the same prior to driving the new M3 based on past experience of the breed, but this time round BMW has taken the RS4 very seriously indeed and catered to Audi's customers as much as their own.

Too me the only loser in this test was the C63, it's rating among mags seems to be way higher than what was achieved in the show and based on JC's behaviour I believe it's result was real and it really isn't that great after all.

I think the RS4 can hold it's head high among these two as for a design which is 7 years old and a car which went on sale 3 years ago it's result was better than I expected. :rs4kiss:


I said over at MTorque.co.uk that in looks department i like Merc best but would never buy a car that is trying to kill you :hihi: Sound and engine however is something else :0:

[+44 Dave]

The funniest was JC trying to hit the apple on the apex in the C63, just wasn't happening because of collosal oversteer and the stig did it in one in the M3.
Jeremy dressed like a rep when driving the M3 (white shirt, tie with fat knot, mad oakley glasses and a bluetooth headset on) was hilarious and very realistic of most M3 drivers!
I also liked how the Audi got the lowest score on the 'cock-o-meter' its true that you are definately cooler driving an Audi than an M3 or a car with a 6.2 engine that says 6.3 on the side...

[Michaël Barbé]

Overal I don't like them calling the :rs4kiss: and the C63(62) copys of the M3. I do think the M3 is a fabulous car but a copy is a big word I think: The Merc has a 6.2 with 450hp, the m3 and rs4 a 4.2. Not really comparable is it? JC liked the Merc so much beacause it has that great power. Then I say: If Audi or BMW had put a 6liter in those cars they would produce +500hp. Also indeed the m3 is a coupé and the rs4 isn't. Very fun test to watch but not one that chanced my mind.

:rs4addict would be my choice every time! (but the avant then!)

You should know how I'm looking forward the next years series with hopefully: M5 touring vs. e55 estate (the new one hopefully) and the rs6 avant!

It will also be a super test and I hope the RS6 wins but if the doesn't: I wouldn't chance my mind also

:addict:

MB
:rs6kiss:

[Audifan92]

yea, I didnt like it when he called them copys either
I don't think they are copysWell, let's just wait for the new RS4, which will hopefully have more power
420 is good but its needs more for what merc and BMW are throwing at it

[Rage]

yea, I didnt like it when he called them copys either
I don't think they are copysWell, let's just wait for the new RS4, which will hopefully have more power
420 is good but its needs more for what merc and BMW are throwing at it

Personally I dont think its a power issue. More importantly I think it needs less weight and less understeer, and more neutral weight distribution

Im sure this will be addressed in the next RS4 (and hopefully RS5).

[artur777]

Guys, but there will be new M3 CSL which will be f**king good!
In my opinion, new RS4 will be also very good and competitive.
The only issue is weight and steering.
Partially we will undertand it from RS6 tests

[Audifan92]

You know, actually thinking about it now, The RS5 will be out before the new RS4.
So hopefully that should be able to get the job done.

[JWC]

Thanks very much for posting the video's. I live in the US and all I see are repeats. I 'll take the RS4 with the AMG HP.

[Rutkowsky]

You know, actually thinking about it now, The RS5 will be out before the new RS4.
So hopefully that should be able to get the job done.

Not to take away anything from S5 - beautiful machine and the base for the future RS5 - But it can't even beat 7 year old e46 M3 ring time so far!! so where's all this high expectations coming from? :doh: When it is here and does 7.40-7.45 or better ring time then brag about it. The thing doesn't even exists yet. At least CSL is being tested and it will better 7.50 previous time

[bober3]

m3 drivers has no friends lollllll

[AndyBG]

Hey guys, have anyone of you ever wondered why Mercedes calls its 6.2l engine 63 AMG... ? :trash:

I think it is B/C of Maybach, top version of it is called 62/62 S, so maybe they didn't wanted to confuse some one, alltough Maybachs name (57 and 62) is refering to a lenght of a car (5.7 m and 6.2 m). Maybachs engines are ''only'' 5.5l and 6.0l...

Any other opinion ? :D

[artur777]

It is 63 AMG because of old engine Mercedes tradition
30 years ago it was already such a car

[Leadfoot]

Not to take away anything from S5 - beautiful machine and the base for the future RS5 - But it can't even beat 7 year old e46 M3 ring time so far!! so where's all this high expectations coming from? :doh: When it is here and does 7.40-7.45 or better ring time then brag about it. The thing doesn't even exists yet. At least CSL is being tested and it will better 7.50 previous time

I know for a fact that the S5 is capable of posting a time well ahead of the 8:26 achieved by SportAuto, maybe some reasons or other made it perform less than expected, remember the R8 HAS been retested by SportAuto and has lapped the ring 6 seconds under it's previous best. I am not saying the same is achievable by the S5 don't it is something to keep in mind.

In any case Quattro's strength doesn't lay on the track but off it, no other system gives such a planted, confident and controlled behaviour on the road which is after all what these cars are primarily for.

Will the RS5 better the old CSL, based on the R8's achievements then I would have to say that I doubt it. I think it may well dip below the magic 8 minutes but I would prefer my RS5 to drive like a more balanced, pointed and slightly quicker RS4 don't still with at planted behaviour we so love.

[Rutkowsky]

Let's hope it is good - because if it is very good, i'll fancy buying one too ;) By the way, isn't "the ring" supposed to be the most demanding and compareable to real life road condition circuit? "The ring" is a public road after all!! P.S. Lets hope BMW and Audi fight it out, competition is good, good for us. The new M3 is "sublime" IMHO if RS5 betters it, wouldn't anyone want to drive it? I would, fingers crossed :thumb:

[Rutkowsky]

I know for a fact that the S5 is capable of posting a time well ahead of the 8:26 achieved by SportAuto, maybe some reasons or other made it perform less than expected, remember the R8 HAS been retested by SportAuto and has lapped the ring 6 seconds under it's previous best. I am not saying the same is achievable by the S5 don't it is something to keep in mind.

In any case Quattro's strength doesn't lay on the track but off it, no other system gives such a planted, confident and controlled behaviour on the road which is after all what these cars are primarily for.

Will the RS5 better the old CSL, based on the R8's achievements then I would have to say that I doubt it. I think it may well dip below the magic 8 minutes but I would prefer my RS5 to drive like a more balanced, pointed and slightly quicker RS4 don't still with at planted behaviour we so love.


I know i quote other, but no choice so far - as far as quattro is concerned - at Mtorque there's a guy - Steve, that contributes to EVO magazine and an owner of R8 and ML 63 AMG, he says Mercs has got much better 4wd system, it feels more like RWD but is still 4wd, i think he should know as he is very knowledgable and a real owner (he also has CSL) so I guess Quattro is more about safety?

[AndyBG]

It is 63 AMG because of old engine Mercedes tradition
30 years ago it was already such a car

That, I didn't know...

...what car was that ?

[Finalmix]

good vid

[Audifan92]

Whats the point of haveing four wheel drive that feels like rwd?
:doh:

[Rutkowsky]

Whats the point of haveing four wheel drive that feels like rwd?
:doh:


:vhmmm:

You could kick the rear out if you like and get silly but still have the benefit of 4 wheel drive in adverse weather condition. But you actually have to drive the car to understand that, get the feel of what engineers have designed. Only then one will understand and stop posting and replying silly stuff. R8 is the closest thing to RWD Audi have manufactured to date and it is not bad at all. I had a ride in one - i am speechless at the quality of interior.! what a machine overall!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz-IpDMHu7g awesome drifts by R8. Have you ever done any track days in a propely balanced RWD car, like M3 etc? Only then you'll know what's it feels like going into a slight drift @100mph on a track, so much thrills :love: and i believe you could do that in R8 :R8kiss:

[Leadfoot]

I know i quote other, but no choice so far - as far as quattro is concerned - at Mtorque there's a guy - Steve, that contributes to EVO magazine and an owner of R8 and ML 63 AMG, he says Mercs has got much better 4wd system, it feels more like RWD but is still 4wd, i think he should know as he is very knowledgable and a real owner (he also has CSL) so I guess Quattro is more about safety?

Who am I to argue with such a knowleadgeable guy as Steve.;)

But to say that Merc's 4 matic system is better than Quattro is similar in saying that X-Drive is better too and in truth they are all just different in their approach. Both BMW's and Merc's systems shift their power slower than Audi's which may give the impression that they are more rwd bias, Audi's system shift the power very quickly and because of this it handling is more neutral/understeery because this is the way Audi want it to be setup, it is the safest for the road and the other users on it.

The biggest difference isn't the cornering speed that either of these systems are capable as there is really no difference on that only what happens when it is over stepped.

Truth is we are seeing a change in the way that Audi want their Quattro car to be perceived and that is the reason why 'Torque Vectoring' is being introduced. This will allow much throttle control from the rear of the car, not to say that it will act like a rwd car but it shouldn't act as a car which is being lead totally by the front wheels.

As for the ring time and the fact that it is a road after all, yes all these things are correct except that no other road which is pimarily used as a road has crash barrier at every corner and some with run-off areas. You also have to remember that what a professional can achieve with a car is totally different to a normal driver and as such these times are only a reflection of what each car is capable of in their hands, not what is capable by Joe Average. Always remember this when commenting on such things regardless of the site you are on.

Please don't take this as me getting at you because this is not the case, it's just something that everyone seems to forget. :thumb:

P.S.

By the way, Mercedes have changed their 4 matic system to Audi's old setup of 50/50. Maybe a step backward do you think and maybe you should ask Steve what he thinks of this too. :looking:

[Rutkowsky]

A bit off topic, since i mentioned R8, built quality, interior, presence and sound is beyond 90% of top sports brands IMHO, but performance as in speed and acceleration is not there for me, i hope the V10 will fix this problem :R8kiss:

[Leadfoot]

I think the R8v10 will live up to the kind of performance figures one expects from a Supercar.

[Rutkowsky]

Who am I to argue with such a knowleadgeable guy as Steve.;)

But to say that Merc's 4 matic system is better than Quattro is similar in saying that X-Drive is better too and in truth they are all just different in their approach. Both BMW's and Merc's systems shift their power slower than Audi's which may give the impression that they are more rwd bias, Audi's system shift the power very quickly and because of this it handling is more neutral/understeery because this is the way Audi want it to be setup, it is the safest for the road and the other users on it.

The biggest difference isn't the cornering speed that either of these systems are capable as there is really no difference on that only what happens when it is over stepped.

Truth is we are seeing a change in the way that Audi want their Quattro car to be perceived and that is the reason why 'Torque Vectoring' is being introduced. This will allow much throttle control from the rear of the car, not to say that it will act like a rwd car but it shouldn't act as a car which is being lead totally by the front wheels.

As for the ring time and the fact that it is a road after all, yes all these things are correct except that no other road which is pimarily used as a road has crash barrier at every corner and some with run-off areas. You also have to remember that what a professional can achieve with a car is totally different to a normal driver and as such these times are only a reflection of what each car is capable of in their hands, not what is capable by Joe Average. Always remember this when commenting on such things regardless of the site you are on.

Please don't take this as me getting at you because this is not the case, it's just something that everyone seems to forget. :thumb:

P.S.

By the way, Mercedes have changed their 4 matic system to Audi's old setup of 50/50. Maybe a step backward do you think and maybe you should ask Steve what he thinks of this too. :looking:

Leadie,
Thats why i'll never try to convince hardcore CSL owners that RWD is S**te, in the right hands, a proper RWd is good. In adverse weather conditions 4wd wins but as most experienced drivers, you don't drive like a mad man in rain or snow, after all, conditions like that are less predictable. Plus when you take your foot off the loud pedal you have.. 0 wheel drive. I'll ask Steve, what he meant by his statement - it was on M3 forum so it could be influenced.. No hard feelings at all, that's why i frequent forums like this to learn and hopefully i can say something from my experience. P.S. The only cars i ever owned were, BMW and Audi - by choice ;) but drove most of the top brands, i either hired them or drove for clients when i did my bodyguard work

:cheers:

[Rutkowsky]

I think the R8v10 will live up to the kind of performance figures one expects from a Supercar.

I hope performance will match its looks ;)

[Leadfoot]

Leadie,
Thats why i'll never try to convince hardcore CSL owners that RWD is S**te, in the right hands, a proper RWd is good. In adverse weather conditions 4wd wins but as most experienced drivers, you don't drive like a mad man in rain or snow, after all, conditions like that are less predictable. Plus when you take your foot off the loud pedal you have.. 0 wheel drive. I'll ask Steve, what he meant by his statement - it was on M3 forum so it could be influenced.. No hard feelings at all, that's why i frequent forums like this to learn and hopefully i can say something from my experience. P.S. The only cars i ever owned were, BMW and Audi - by choice ;) but drove most of the top brands, i either hired them or drove for clients when i did my bodyguard work

:cheers:

The forum choice may have had something to do with it. Another thing you forgot to add when commenting on bad weather drivings was to fact that though AWD cars do have a lot more grip in such conditions once you as you say 'take your foot off the loud pedal' and hit the brake the car is no better than any other car and as such can lead you into more problems than it will fix if you are not careful.

[Rutkowsky]

The forum choice may have had something to do with it. Another thing you forgot to add when commenting on bad weather drivings was to fact that though AWD cars do have a lot more grip in such conditions once you as you say 'take your foot off the loud pedal' and hit the brake the car is no better than any other car and as such can lead you into more problems than it will fix if you are not careful.


:cheers: that's what i meant but i have my wife rushing me to get off internet, you know you can't win with women LOL Merry Christmas Leadie

[Fab]

Just watched the vid. What a great and hilarious show :lovl: :lovl:

The perfect outcome in my opinion : All 3 are great cars :heart: no doubt about it.

Each one with his own strength then you get the one you want :thumb:

[ellstimpo]

I think the R8v10 will live up to the kind of performance figures one expects from a Supercar.

Well well, bored at home i look on this site for the first time in ages and what do we have. Is the self proclaimed king of rs6.com admitting that the R8 isn't a supercar, or at least doesn't have supercar performance. Now that does interest me.

Also, can some of you lot please get off your big Audi soapbox's. Had a massive problem with it when i was a member here and your still doing it. The M3 kicked both the Merc and the Audi's ass in that test. Its right in front of your eyes, yet some of you are coming up with some real crap simply because 'I wanted the Audi to win' , its pathetic.

The RS4 is a brilliant car, always has been, always will be, but the new M3 is a far better all round car and so it bloody should be. The RS4 is an old model, no disgrace in losing badly.

Seriously guys, get rid of your Audi bias and become proper car enthusiasts.

PS - Anyone hear the comments on the R8 on topgear. Comparing it to Munich? All saying they wouldn't have one?? Interesting. Also anyone watched Clarkson's new DVD. 'If you want an £80k sports car, then i wouldn't buy one of these' - talking about the R8:hahahehe:

Seems Clarkson and i are starting to agree on things. Well the R8 anyway.:applause:

Hope you all got the Audi caps, jumpers and umbrella's you must have been wanting for Christmas :lovl:

[Leadfoot]

ellstimpo,

Welcome back and great to see that you still have to urge to check on the site and still want to join in on the discussions.

By the way I have R8 always regarded the R8 a supercar without true supercar performance but only with regards to it's acceleration and topspeed, so no difference from me at least.

I has also said that the new M3 is an amazing machine and you may feel I am one sided and bias to Audi and am not a true enthusiast but if you actually read what I write you will know that I like almost all cars (exception being most current Ferraris) and have already placed an order for a new M3.

P.S.

Thanks for the title but I don't feel I deserve it.:lovl:

[ellstimpo]

ellstimpo,

Welcome back and great to see that you still have to urge to check on the site and still want to join in on the discussions.

By the way I have R8 always regarded the R8 a supercar without true supercar performance but only with regards to it's acceleration and topspeed, so no difference from me at least.

I has also said that the new M3 is an amazing machine and you may feel I am one sided and bias to Audi and am not a true enthusiast but if you actually read what I write you will know that I like almost all cars (exception being most current Ferraris) and have already placed an order for a new M3.

P.S.

Thanks for the title but I don't feel I deserve it.:lovl:

1) Not really, just bored and nothing else to do.

2) You have always regarded the R8 a supercar without true supercar performance. I think that might just be the most stupid thing i have ever heard.
Is a helicopter a helicopter if it looks like one but can't fly ???:lovl:

3) You have no experience at all of any Ferrari and simply regurgitate 'things you hear' , pretty pathetic if you ask me. Im not a fan of the way modern Ferrari's look, but the 430 is a brillaint car and now having driven a LHD 430 Scud and a 599, there is nothing that touches them. But im sure you'll have an opinion based on F all as usual.

4) I didn't give you the title. Do you not understand what 'self proclaimed' means :doh:

5) Love the bits on here where you claim you know someone very important at Audi but can't tell anyone. :lovl: :lovl: I love that, its brilliant. Hey look who i know everybody :snow:

[Leadfoot]

Great to see you have changed to way you speak to others. NOT

I don't think there is any point in discussing things with you if you aren't going to write objectively and with a bit of manners.

P.S.
One has to proclaimed himself for that statement to be true. I respect my source and will never tell who it is for anyone, especially not you. To receive info one must have trust in the person it is given to and I believe with the way I behave I have it.

Oh yeah, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year as no doubt you will be disconnected once more for your behaviour.

[ellstimpo]

Great to see you have changed to way you speak to others. NOT

I don't think there is any point in discussing things with you if you aren't going to write objectively and with a bit of manners.

P.S.
One has to proclaimed himself for that statement to be true. I respect my source and will never tell who it is for anyone, especially not you. To receive info one must have trust in the person it is given to and I believe with the way I behave I have it.

Oh yeah, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year as no doubt you will be disconnected once more for your behaviour.

1) No, i write the truth - you write bollox. 'I regard the R8 as a supercar without supercar performance' after crap like that you think im bothered if i discuss anything to do with cars with the likes of you? You have demonstrated what you know.:lovl:

3) You proclaim it through your arrogant posts. If you do have a 'source' then keep it to yourself and stop shouting and trying to impress people with it on here if your not going to tell them anything. How arrogant are you? I personally don't give a crap what you or your BS source says. The Audi UK Marketing Manager is an old school friend of mine, and im happy to share with others what he tells me, because he wouldn't tell me anything that was 'highly secret' as telling his mates aint worth his job, which is how i know you speak out of your bum:lovl:

4) Dis-connected ? I think i have proved that cannot happen !!!!!

I will leave you to your self importance oh Mr Audi:lovl:

[Leadfoot]

ellstimpo,

I don't know whether to laugh at me or feel pity.

I will leave that up to you.;)

P.S.

I will not rise to the bate, if only to prove that I don't need, to make you look stupid.

[Rutkowsky]

1) No, i write the truth - you write bollox. 'I regard the R8 as a supercar without supercar performance' after crap like that you think im bothered if i discuss anything to do with cars with the likes of you? You have demonstrated what you know.:lovl:

3) You proclaim it through your arrogant posts. If you do have a 'source' then keep it to yourself and stop shouting and trying to impress people with it on here if your not going to tell them anything. How arrogant are you? I personally don't give a crap what you or your BS source says. The Audi UK Marketing Manager is an old school friend of mine, and im happy to share with others what he tells me, because he wouldn't tell me anything that was 'highly secret' as telling his mates aint worth his job, which is how i know you speak out of your bum:lovl:

4) Dis-connected ? I think i have proved that cannot happen !!!!!

I will leave you to your self importance oh Mr Audi:lovl:


Let's talk car buddy and leave anything personal out the way, It is Christmas ffs.

[Leadfoot]

Let's talk car buddy and leave anything personal out the way, It is Christmas ffs.

Thanks mate, though I think it will fall on deaf ears.

But thanks all the same.:thumb:

P.S.

Did I hear right that you are getting a M-DCT M3, what date has your dealer give for this as mine knows nothing, but then again he isn't the head of BMW UK Marketing. ;)

[Rutkowsky]

No exact dates so for, innitially May 08 but now Sept 08. We will see. By the way, it is Alpine White, i'll go for as many options as necessary - i am tired of driving cars that i have to compromise on - the current M3 is in brilliant shape, mechanically wise but not much options like heated seats (bought the car in Italy) for example or rear blind. Silly stuff but makes a difference comes resale time. The must have upgrades i have done; suspension, brakepads and quality tyre - PS2 - the car is brilliant now but obviously new is new, it is bound to be better, hence new M3 on the way.
And how about you? Apparently white is the new black, i hope the trend continues and ever since Top Gear, i also started to fancy that grey colour on M3 :cheers:

[ellstimpo]

ellstimpo,

I don't know whether to laugh at me or feel pity.

I will leave that up to you.;)

P.S.

I will not rise to the bate, if only to prove that I don't need, to make you look stupid.

Yeah, i look stupid. Im the one saying the R8 is a supercar whilst also saying it hasn't got supercar performance. Im the one shouting about knowing someone and being billy big balls but got f all to tell anyone.

Your right, im the one looking stupid :doh:

Well done :applause:

[ellstimpo]

Let's talk car buddy and leave anything personal out the way, It is Christmas ffs.

I will talk about cars to anyone who shows an enthusiasm and relative knowledge about the motor industry as a whole, not just one brand and certainly not an arrogant know it all who knows f all and gives opinion on something that he/she/it has absolutely no experience of.

No respect or courtesy will be shown in that instance and righty so.

[ellstimpo]

but then again he isn't the head of BMW UK Marketing. ;)

Oh go on, i bet he's your mate who tells you lots of super doopy highly classified information about BMW that no one else in the world but you and him know about, but alas you can't tell anyone, because its made up and your full of a substance that comes out of people's bum's a lot :lovl:

[ellstimpo]

Apparently white is the new black, i hope the trend continues and ever since Top Gear, i also started to fancy that grey colour on M3 :cheers:

Huge amounts of cars are being ordered in White. Its a trend that has returned and i must admit, its not often i see a sleek sports car in white and not like it. The issue would be, how long will the trend last? If it comes to a distinct end the depreciation will be nasty. I nearly ordered my S5 in white, but then i realised i lived between Yorkshire and London, not Miami.

Someone i know wants to order a 430 Scud in white, but he wants a grey stripe to compliment it and at the moment Ferrari will only do a black stripe.

M3 is a great car, for me always the leader in its market and probably always will be. The comp has got a lot closer but the M3 is still the King. I had 3 E46's and loved them all.

Love the S5, but after seeing a mates Maserati Granturismo the other day, i think i'll be swapping my S5 for one of those, not an M3 :hahahehe:

[Leadfoot]

No exact dates so for, innitially May 08 but now Sept 08. We will see. By the way, it is Alpine White, i'll go for as many options as necessary - i am tired of driving cars that i have to compromise on - the current M3 is in brilliant shape, mechanically wise but not much options like heated seats (bought the car in Italy) for example or rear blind. Silly stuff but makes a difference comes resale time. The must have upgrades i have done; suspension, brakepads and quality tyre - PS2 - the car is brilliant now but obviously new is new, it is bound to be better, hence new M3 on the way.
And how about you? Apparently white is the new black, i hope the trend continues and ever since Top Gear, i also started to fancy that grey colour on M3 :cheers:

Sounds like you are hearing a similar story to me, on my test drive I was originally told May/June but then on placing the order this had changed to 'I don't know', clearly BMW are still working on things in the hope not to repeat the early problems they had with the SMGIII in both the M5 and M6. The one I test drove had Dunlops I believe and I asked if you could spec PS2 or even the Pirelli equivalents, he is checking into this for me.

I hasn't saw Space Grey in person though I have now seen Black metallic, Blue, Silverstone and Red and of all of these I like the look of Silverstone and Black to best. Chances are I will end up with Silver as the black doesn't show off the roof and the brother-in-law currently drives an old shape M3 in Black, so I can't copy and that isn't good practise, one has to lead not follow. :hihi: As for the M3 on Topgear, I loved it but think in our dull (mainly) UK weather it won't look that special.

P.S.

The C63's paint work looked stunning and it was Silver I believe. :D

[MrBucket]

Well well, bored at home i look on this site for the first time in ages and what do we have. Is the self proclaimed king of rs6.com admitting that the R8 isn't a supercar, or at least doesn't have supercar performance. Now that does interest me.

Also, can some of you lot please get off your big Audi soapbox's. Had a massive problem with it when i was a member here and your still doing it. The M3 kicked both the Merc and the Audi's ass in that test. Its right in front of your eyes, yet some of you are coming up with some real crap simply because 'I wanted the Audi to win' , its pathetic.

The RS4 is a brilliant car, always has been, always will be, but the new M3 is a far better all round car and so it bloody should be. The RS4 is an old model, no disgrace in losing badly.

Seriously guys, get rid of your Audi bias and become proper car enthusiasts.

PS - Anyone hear the comments on the R8 on topgear. Comparing it to Munich? All saying they wouldn't have one?? Interesting. Also anyone watched Clarkson's new DVD. 'If you want an £80k sports car, then i wouldn't buy one of these' - talking about the R8:hahahehe:

Seems Clarkson and i are starting to agree on things. Well the R8 anyway.:applause:

Hope you all got the Audi caps, jumpers and umbrella's you must have been wanting for Christmas :lovl:


m3 the better all around car? no i dont think so. the better sports car yes, but thats to be expected from a rwd coupe vs a awd sedan. the awd and the extra door and useable rear seats are what give the rs4 the win in the better all around car category to me.

[Leadfoot]

Rutkowsky,

Though I am a real supporter of DSG style gearboxes I decided not to go for the M3 with one because I doubt it will hold it's money as well as the manual, especially for someone who intent is to sell within the year.

I did ask the question to my BMW dealer and he was very honest in saying that the SMG M3 sat longest on the forecourt so if it was his money he would be doing the same as myself.

P.S.

He didn't have a word on price for the M-DCT but is reckoning on something in the range of £2k~£2.5K. What have you been told.

[Rutkowsky]

m3 the better all around car? no i dont think so. the better sports car yes, but thats to be expected from a rwd coupe vs a awd sedan. the awd and the extra door and useable rear seats are what give the rs4 the win in the better all around car category to me.

:doh: Extra Usable rear seats in RS4, huh? This just Shows how knowledgable you are to give impartial opinions

[Rutkowsky]

Rutkowsky,

Though I am a real supporter of DSG style gearboxes I decided not to go for the M3 with one because I doubt it will hold it's money as well as the manual, especially for someone who intent is to sell within the year.

I did ask the question to my BMW dealer and he was very honest in saying that the SMG M3 sat longest on the forecourt so if it was his money he would be doing the same as myself.

P.S.

He didn't have a word on price for the M-DCT but is reckoning on something in the range of £2k~£2.5K. What have you been told.


Are you going for manual then?

[Rutkowsky]

Leadie,

When will i see you in your Silvers. M3?

[Leadfoot]

Yeah, manual.

[Rutkowsky]

My guess is, that it will happen quite soon :jlol:

[Leadfoot]

Leadie,

When will i see you in your Silvers. M3?

I have ordered mine for October but may bring this follow if the RS5 is to be released ahead of what has been told to me. I was surprised how available the car is considering that it's only out, I know the same isn't true for the S5 or any of the RS models.

I haven't decided 100% on the colour but on the order the dealer put Silverstone down just to show there was something on the order. I like White, Space Grey and Black along side the Silverstone so will make my decision when the dealer says the final spec is required.

[rs4some]

Huge amounts of cars are being ordered in White. Its a trend that has returned and i must admit, its not often i see a sleek sports car in white and not like it. The issue would be, how long will the trend last? If it comes to a distinct end the depreciation will be nasty. I nearly ordered my S5 in white, but then i realised i lived between Yorkshire and London, not Miami.

Someone i know wants to order a 430 Scud in white, but he wants a grey stripe to compliment it and at the moment Ferrari will only do a black stripe.

M3 is a great car, for me always the leader in its market and probably always will be. The comp has got a lot closer but the M3 is still the King. I had 3 E46's and loved them all.

Love the S5, but after seeing a mates Maserati Granturismo the other day, i think i'll be swapping my S5 for one of those, not an M3 :hahahehe:

Actually you are wrong there on both accounds in regards to the Scuderia. They come with a grey stripe as standard (with black outline) however they will do this in any colour for a cost of about $3k ontop of the price of the stripe itself. A friend has ordered one with a gold stripe to match the gold wheels.

[ellstimpo]

Actually you are wrong there on both accounds in regards to the Scuderia. They come with a grey stripe as standard (with black outline) however they will do this in any colour for a cost of about $3k ontop of the price of the stripe itself. A friend has ordered one with a gold stripe to match the gold wheels.

I was at the launch in Maranello and i can assure you at that time Ferrari were only doing a Black stripe, My friend is still waiting to hear back if they will do him a grey stripe.

I see you have quoted the price in Dollars which might suggest your not in the UK. As i am talking about a UK ordered car, the rules may be different from where you are to the UK. Something you might want to have thought about before so cleverly telling someone they are wrong, when they are clearly right.:doh:

ps - what were 'both accounts' you accused me of being wrong on. Obviously a clever chap, you must have forgotten to include one !!!

[Leadfoot]

M3 is a great car, for me always the leader in its market and probably always will be. The comp has got a lot closer but the M3 is still the King. I had 3 E46's and loved them all.

Love the S5, but after seeing a mates Maserati Granturismo the other day, i think i'll be swapping my S5 for one of those, not an M3 :hahahehe:

Fair points about the M3 but I, like many here believe that the RS4 with it's awd system offers a best compromise versus the M3's outright pace in the dry and not so great wet weather speed, the Audi maybe slightly slower in the dry but easily wins in the wet. It is the best all-rounder in this sector of fast German Saloon/Coupes, I reckon that is why so many people that happen to chose the RS models over their rivals are professional types, these are the kind of people who aren't swayed by media hype and make the logical choice based on the information infront of them.

Regarding the Maserati Granturismo, now here is an Italian that I can love without that image that seems to get in the way with the other two. It doesn't have to be as good as either the Lambo or the Ferrari and because of this it's appeal to me at least is all the more for it. I also love the Alfa Romeo 8C, a car which makes all others Italian supercars look plain in comparison.

[brad]

Rather than everyone arguing about M3s, RS4s, and C63s, how about answering my interesting questions on exhausts: http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14052 :-).

I know there is lots of stuff on the forum already, but most info assumes you know your resonator from your catalytic convertor (I dont). Also, the company web sites seem to be quite light on this type of info. Just wanted the low down before I get swamped with commercial gumpf from the suppliers when I get in touch.

[rs4some]

I was at the launch in Maranello and i can assure you at that time Ferrari were only doing a Black stripe, My friend is still waiting to hear back if they will do him a grey stripe.

I see you have quoted the price in Dollars which might suggest your not in the UK. As i am talking about a UK ordered car, the rules may be different from where you are to the UK. Something you might want to have thought about before so cleverly telling someone they are wrong, when they are clearly right.:doh:

ps - what were 'both accounts' you accused me of being wrong on. Obviously a clever chap, you must have forgotten to include one !!!

The both accounts are

1. That Ferrari only do a black stripe (wrong)
2. That can't get grey (wrong).

Well where as i do not shoot my mouth off and make claims that can not be backed up, i have provided for your information and entertainment for everyone else personal shots i took this year at the official 430 Scuderia launch at the Fioranno test track.

As you can clearly see the stripes are GREY with a black outline, this is the standard stripe design (it can be ordered as an individual colour at extra cost if you choose so). I suggest you get your facts straight before you shoot your mouth off again.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3092/027pw0.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9730/047xb9.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3586/079wy7.jpg

[Leadfoot]

rs4some,

I understand you are only trying to prove your point against someone who is basically telling you that you are wrong but does this have anything to do with TopGear's M3 vs C63 vs RS4 test. :vhmmm:

Why not PM each other. :thumb:

[Rutkowsky]

rs4some,

I understand you are only trying to prove your point against someone who is basically telling you that you are wrong but does this have anything to do with TopGear's M3 vs C63 vs RS4 test. :vhmmm:

Why not PM each other. :thumb:


Very true, let's stay on topic from now on :0:

[Leadfoot]

Rutkowsky,

What colour have you picked for your M3?

[ellstimpo]

The both accounts are

1. That Ferrari only do a black stripe (wrong)
2. That can't get grey (wrong).

Well where as i do not shoot my mouth off and make claims that can not be backed up, i have provided for your information and entertainment for everyone else personal shots i took this year at the official 430 Scuderia launch at the Fioranno test track.

As you can clearly see the stripes are GREY with a black outline, this is the standard stripe design (it can be ordered as an individual colour at extra cost if you choose so). I suggest you get your facts straight before you shoot your mouth off again.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3092/027pw0.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9730/047xb9.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3586/079wy7.jpg

Stripe looks black to me. thanks for photos proving me right :lovl:

[Leadfoot]

Stripe looks black to me. thanks for photos proving me right :lovl:


Correct..................but only correct around the edge as the rest of the stripe is indeed grey.:lovl:

[ellstimpo]

Correct..................but only correct around the edge as the rest of the stripe is indeed grey.:lovl:

black is not a colour, its shade and guess what, grey is a shade of black

Dumb ass:doh:

[Leadfoot]

I know grey is a shade but that was not the point, rs4some was correct in saying you could get the stripe in grey.

Please stop with the abuse as it would be appreciated.

[ellstimpo]

Please stop with the abuse as it would be appreciated.

Go run to mommy :noshake:

[Erik]

ellstimpo gets his first warning. Please don't rock the boat, please behave and don't insult other members.

Back ON TOPIC.

[ellstimpo]

ellstimpo gets his first warning. Please don't rock the boat, please behave and don't insult other members.

Back ON TOPIC.

While you here Erik can you please let leadfoot know he doesn't own or run this site, cos i don't think he knows yet.

Thanks :thumb:

ps - did you tell on my leadfoot??? ha ha ha

[Rutkowsky]

Rutkowsky,

What colour have you picked for your M3?


Alpine White, but i see so many top sports brands in this colour that i might change it. Silverstone would be nice, how about you?

[Leadfoot]

Alpine White, but i see so many top sports brands in this colour that i might change it. Silverstone would be nice, how about you?

The dealer is setting up a meeting with one they sold a month or so back, on this viewing will determine whether I pick with my original choice of Silverstone.

[Rutkowsky]

I've seen White in metal and it looks brilliant!! I just worry about resale.. but then again, i see Gallardo, Porsche /turbo and many others in this colour so i won't be the only one :hihi: In white it looks much more "special" :love:

[Leadfoot]

I've seen White in metal and it looks brilliant!! I just worry about resale.. but then again, i see Gallardo, Porsche /turbo and many others in this colour so i won't be the only one :hihi: In white it looks much more "special" :love:


I asked the same thing of my dealer, 'what about resale' and the answer back is that cars like the GTI Golf and coupes are selling better second-hand in white than any other colour but won't be drawn into a debate of whether the same would be true in a year or two.

I concern would also be tar marks, no colour shows them up better than white.

[QuattroFun]

I agree - TG at its best. Puts proper pressure on the Quattro Gmbh to make the forthcoming RS5 dynamically better than the RS4...Cant wait!

[Rutkowsky]

I asked the same thing of my dealer, 'what about resale' and the answer back is that cars like the GTI Golf and coupes are selling better second-hand in white than any other colour but won't be drawn into a debate of whether the same would be true in a year or two.

I concern would also be tar marks, no colour shows them up better than white.


Can't be that bad, washing brand new proper sports car, never mind the brand, M/S/RS whatever. What a joy :jlol: As long as you like the colour and car that's all that matters :cheers:

[Rutkowsky]

I agree - TG at its best. Puts proper pressure on the Quattro Gmbh to make the forthcoming RS5 dynamically better than the RS4...Cant wait!


I agree, one of the best Top Gear episodes so far!! And that's Not because M3 did well. I liked the closing sentence, there's no losers here, only what you prefer in a car. Three excellent machines

[Leadfoot]

Can't be that bad, washing brand new proper sports car, never mind the brand, M/S/RS whatever. What a joy :jlol: As long as you like the colour and car that's all that matters :cheers:

Oh don't get me wrong, I love white it just I'm a lazy so and so and hate polishing and washing the car as much as the wife, so I generally steer clear of colours which I know will give me a hard time.