Didnt we need a RS8?

[tvrfan]

ive heard several rumors of a BMW M7, so when, it will start in the new generation.

iam just thinking, but when the M7 will geht 600+hp and the next gen A8 would have a normal range to 450hp+ and the S8 500hp+ i would see a need for a RS8. i would love to see this thing.

also for the A1. a S1 is planned but a RS1 would kill me.

test mules are running also on X6 M or X5 M that would be nice too. and sooo we need a Q7 S or Q7 RS xD ^^

what do you think about that hp war and high performance models in future?

[rs-mad]

i think you think too much sometimes :)

[tvrfan]

i think you think too much sometimes :)

:vhmmm:

:lovl:

[crespo]

You do, dude. Stop worrying so much.

[Aronis]

at this point you're right, the correct level of compairson is RS to M, Not S to M....

The S car's are dropping off as the High Performance Audi...look at the S4 vs. 335ix..the BMW is kicking the S4's Ass.....it too has AWD, as much Hp....etc...

I think Audi needs to DROP THE RS line and simply make the S line the top....can keep it there....

And by the way DROP any friggen S-line BS...it's either an S car or NOT...no pretenders please.

Mike

[AndyBG]

And by the way DROP any friggen S-line BS...it's either an S car or NOT...no pretenders please.

Why do you have so big problem with S-line ?

There are noumerous people that want their cars to look better, and Audi cashing that. BMW and Merc' do that as well.

Smaller engines, both petrol and diesel, with Sport optics (S-line, M-packet, AMG optik) are great sellers in Europe, for all three brands.

Still, I think that differences in look between ''real deal'' S/RS cars and S-line are big enough for everybody not to mistake what is what.

Just my 0.3.

:cheers:

[DuckWingDuck]

hehe@my three cents is more than your two cents. I can see both of your positions and have mixed feelings about it. As AndyBG said, it's a great selling option for those that don't want to spend the money for the bigger engine but still want the amenities. For hose of us who do spend the money, well, sometimes we would like that recognition and feel that sometimes the people who don't go all out dilute the exclusivity of our cars a bit.

[AndyBG]

... For hose of us who do spend the money, well, sometimes we would like that recognition and feel that sometimes the people who don't go all out dilute the exclusivity of our cars a bit.

I totaly agree with you, but it seems to me that there is much more people ho want to spend less money, so manufacturers give them what they want.

[raulg]

0.3 it's not 3 cents. it's 30 actually.

Hey, I do plan on buying the next S4 for what it is: around 350 hp, not the best, but good enough for the next step (from my A4). I will go further a few years later with the B8 RS4. For now, I do not shop against competition at all, I shop with my needs in mind: ~ 350hp is not bad, the B8 looks nicer than B7, interior rocks any other car in it's class(seen & drove the S5) .. etc. I am willing to pay what they ask for the S4.

I think your only problem (guys) is the name: A4, S4, RS4. Since BMW doesn't have 3 categories clearly defined Audi is in trouble for having them, right? They do NOT have to follow BMW's ass ALL THE TIME. Naming doesn't really matter afterall, it's what you get underneath ...

My opinion is this: Audi covers all segments pretty good for now, and will show up right away with the missing ones (like A1, Q5, A7) in the next year or so. In the A4 range you (the buyer) can have anything from 130hp to 420hp (at least in europe), as many as 10 different choices just in engines(diesel & FSI). So if you need X hp you can get it. It's not like BMW has more choices at all .. The same, if you don't care about hp much but you need X mpg you can get it. I like the new Audi, moving faster and coming with plenty of new models lately.

And about the RS8, it will show up probably after the M7. We all know how BMW bitched about turbos? Now, they have it. They also said there NEVER be an M7, will see about that too.

And when BMW showed up with the 335i(plus a $1500 chip) I think plenty of the new M3 owners (to be) felt pretty bad about them paying 20k more just for the M badge. 335i is a great car, but makes the new M3 look very bery bad. That is something I REALLY HOPE Audi will never do in our lineup.

[DuckWingDuck]

I totaly agree with you, but it seems to me that there is much more people ho want to spend less money, so manufacturers give them what they want.

Oh, I agree, the manufacturers wouldn't do it if it didn't make financial sense! No doubt about that.

[DuckWingDuck]

raulg, you're right! $0.30 not $0.03!! Damn AndyBG and his euro (or rather dam this crappy dollar deflation).

You're right that the availability of the A4 through RS4 stretch the full spectrum of available horsepower to match your wallet but not sure what the reference you toss in there regarding the S5 was about...

It's interesting that we're talking about this as Richard, Ben, and I discussed this exact issue while we were at the LA Auto Show, I personally don't think that there will be a RS8, be it a boosted R8 (coupe) or boosted S8 (sedan). I would agree with them that we would simply see something similar to the W12, a much bigger engine more so than a rebadging.

[itisme]

at this point you're right, the correct level of compairson is RS to M, Not S to M....

The S car's are dropping off as the High Performance Audi...look at the S4 vs. 335ix..the BMW is kicking the S4's Ass.....it too has AWD, as much Hp....etc...

I think Audi needs to DROP THE RS line and simply make the S line the top....can keep it there....

And by the way DROP any friggen S-line BS...it's either an S car or NOT...no pretenders please.

Mike

aren't you driving an RS or S due to its stealth factor? I think this was THE main point of an RS... a Avant, a family car, with a huge trunk space for four or five people with the ability to race, or even destroy a porsche... and now your saying, your baby bombers are too common in look :D.. that's strange in a way ;)....

[AndyBG]

raulg, you're right! $0.30 not $0.03!! Damn AndyBG and his euro (or rather dam this crappy dollar deflation).

Hey ! Not my falt for dollar going down ! :brag:

:hihi: :D :0:

:cheers:

[chewym]

Naming doesn't really matter afterall, it's what you get underneath ...



Exactly, manufacturers give you the specs, magazines confirm or reject the specs and anyone can make a desicion on what they want without looking at names.

[Aronis]

aren't you driving an RS or S due to its stealth factor? I think this was THE main point of an RS... a Avant, a family car, with a huge trunk space for four or five people with the ability to race, or even destroy a porsche... and now your saying, your baby bombers are too common in look :D.. that's strange in a way ;)....

in 2003 there was no S6.

There was an S6 avant which had 4.2 liter V8, and S badges but I don't recall the horse power being more than the A6 4.2., but I think the S6 had a manual transmission.

The dealer liked to call the A6 2.7 turbo the equivolent S6 but this was not the case, not even an S-line.

The 2000 A6 4.2 had 300 hp, the A8 with the same engine had 320 hp. The A6 4.2 was only available with the automatic transmission, much like the RS6. The S6 avant was quite rare also.

In 2003 the RS6 was Audi's answer to the M5. Period. The 540i was already much more of a performer than the V8 A6, especially since it was available with a 6 speed manual (or may have been 5), i.e. the 540 sport.

The older S4 did a fine job of matching the M3 of its time.

The S-line adds some badges but not much performance.

The M-technic version of the 325is (1994) predated the 1995 M3 but had no Badges but rather the Suspension of the upcoming M3.

Mike

[Aronis]

Furthermore, it's just a marketing thing...but I believe it dilutes the S car's value. Sort of when a guy just adds the S badge he just stole off someone elses car to his car!

So 10 years from now when someone is looking to "restore" an old S car.....which car is he/she looking for? An A6 2.8 with an S-line badge????

Mike

[AndyBG]

...The 2000 A6 4.2 had 300 hp, the A8 with the same engine had 320 hp...

A8 4.2 had a 310 hp from '00 model year.


...So 10 years from now when someone is looking to "restore" an old S car.....which car is he/she looking for? An A6 2.8 with an S-line badge????

It want be that hard to make difference, I'm sure...

[DuckWingDuck]

Furthermore, it's just a marketing thing...but I believe it dilutes the S car's value. Sort of when a guy just adds the S badge he just stole off someone elses car to his car!

So 10 years from now when someone is looking to "restore" an old S car.....which car is he/she looking for? An A6 2.8 with an S-line badge????

Mike

IMO, we're starting to get away from the original point of this thread... I mean, this phenomenon is true of every German manufacturer. There are plenty of 5 series out there that are fake M5s. Likewise AMG. Hell, I lose count the number of Mercs out there rolling around with the AMG logo.

[Aronis]

IMO, we're starting to get away from the original point of this thread... I mean, this phenomenon is true of every German manufacturer. There are plenty of 5 series out there that are fake M5s. Likewise AMG. Hell, I lose count the number of Mercs out there rolling around with the AMG logo.

yes but not from the dealer. Wanna Bes adding their own M badges

[itisme]

all i can say to my opinion is, that it's really really easy to see which one is only a sport version and which one is the original sports car... and those who can't differentiate, won't see what is a normal 5 series on what is an M5 after all because they don't even no that there is ment to be a difference....

[Aronis]

Most enthusiasts know which car is which, but the point I made was that the S-line is a pure marketting ploy, and I guess it works.

Mike

[itisme]

Most enthusiasts know which car is which, but the point I made was that the S-line is a pure marketting ploy, and I guess it works.

Mike

sure it works, and that's good. So our beloved brand Audi can keep it's quality and it's upper class interior and exterior... who cares how the money is made, if we profit of it :)...

[Audiphile]

Ok, I think it was actually like this:

A6 4.2L V8 (pre-2005)

300 bhp

A8L 4.2L V8 (pre-2004)

310 bhp

S6 Avant 4.2L V8 (2002)

340 bhp

S8 4.2L V8 (pre-2004) :love: :heart: (Still one the most beautiful Audis every created!)

360 bhp

So, for that time the S6 was no snail! The RS6 followed in 2003 with 450 bhp. Huge leap for the A6 don't you think? And this is where the differentiation between the S and RS Series began.

There will never be a RS8 (A8 variant) in my opinion. Unlike the other Audi models (or series) the A8 does not lend itself to a RS version. The S8 will serve as the uber high performance A8, and the A8L W12 will serve as the uber-uber flagship of the A8. The M7 is more of a future response to the next generation S8 that has rumors putting it around or above 600 bhp. Since the standard A8L will likely go up to 450 bhp (currently a occupied by the S8 and W12), the W12 will have to go up as well to maybe 550 bph (only guessing - might share with Bentley as the next generations of the Bentley Flying Spur and the Audi A8L are "sister" cars developed by Audi and not Bentley).

Also, as Greg, Ben, and I were discussing the RS8 would be too confusing with the R8 in terms of Audi nomenclature. I do not believe that the R8 V10 would be called an RS8 either. It will remain R8 V10. The R-lines should not be confused with the RS or S-lines. I think they will represent a different perfomance category for quattro GmbH. R (possibly mid-engined only cars)>RS>S. Then what do you name the Q-lines that will be high performance? Will the upcoming ultimate diesel V12 TDI Q7 be a RQ7 or SQ7 or RSQ7? Not likely. I think it will be simply Q7 V12 TDI on the boot.

Unlike badge slap happy Mercedes-Benz that puts an AMG on everything it sells (surprisingly there is no Vento AMG:lovl: , although there is a :harass: R-Class AMG), Audi thankfully remains intelligent enough to use RS and S for true performance and not every car it creates. What is next, AMG Mercedes buses?!

[Aronis]

well said

[AndyBG]

Ok, I think it was actually like this:

A6 4.2L V8 (pre-2005)

300 bhp

A8L 4.2L V8 (pre-2004)

310 bhp

S6 Avant 4.2L V8 (2002)

340 bhp

S8 4.2L V8 (pre-2004) :love: :heart: (Still one the most beautiful Audis every created!)

360 bhp



You are probably talking abot US model years, becouse in Europe, Audi presented D3 A8 on Paris auto show, october 2002, and that car with 4.2 engine developed 335 hp. D2 A8 4.2 had 310 hp, Audi stopped production of this car in early 2003.

:cheers:

[skiwi]

the new rs8 will be non-turbo apparently. the turbo v10 got too hot.

http://www.autocarmag.com/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/229425/