4.2 V8 derived from Honda engine?

[quattro Gmbh]

While doing some research on Wikipedia look what I've come up to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_RS4

Audi joined DTM after having priveteer teams run the Abt:TT-R and deciding to run a V8 A4 in the series. Audi in the past had used a V8 in the series with the Quattro V8 but had opted for a highly tuned V8 which Audi had no resources for. So Honda was contacted and at the time had been using V8s in IRL and Audi wanted a similiar package in performance and reliability so Honda and Mugen(M-Tec) got together and decided to let Audi use the Mugen/Honda MF308 V8 engine which Audi prepped in 1999-00, testing and remanufacturing designs implemented/approved and raced in 2004, the engine produced 460bhp /(Over 500nm)Torque in 4.0 litre trim and has been a mainstay in Audis DTM program and the design used was the basis for the B6/S4-B7 RS4 4.2litre V8 (which many thought was a redesign of the old Audi V8 Quattro design but really wasn't,was changed to a 4 valve per cylinder design vs previous 5 valve) which some might argue would technically be Hondas first roadcar V8 engine. Also the only improvements made to the racing engine by Audi was shaving weight off the crankshaft since the engine had already been designed from the ground up.

[PetrolDave]

Sounds like a pretty unlikely story to me - remember anyone can edit a wikipedia entry...

[RussianM3_dude]

I would rather think that Cosworth had a hand in it, just like the B5 RS4 (well, at least the basic design, before Audi got rid of them.)

[Benman]

They sight no references, but anything is possible. It is true that Honda has far more experience with high strung NA V8s than Audi ever did. I believe it could definately be true but something Audi would not want public. Again, they sight zero references so I'll wait till someone can confirm before I'm convinced.


Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

I would rather think that Cosworth had a hand in it, just like the B5 RS4 (well, at least the basic design, before Audi got rid of them.)

Cosworth did have a hand in the B7 RS4 and R8 engine at least, I am unsure as to whether they did work on the B6-7 S4 engine though.

[tvrfan]

Does that mean audi hasnt experience to build high performance V8 engines, and couldnt build it, so they are using hondas V8 for plattform??? i hope it wont be in future too.

is that the reason too, that audi used lamborghini engine 5.2l V10 for S6 as plattform because they cant build high performance NA engines?

[nene]

...that audi used lamborghini engine 5.2l V10 for S6 as plattform because they cant build high performance NA engines?


Who do you think built the V10 for the Lambo? Lamborghini is a VW/Audi Group company. Many companies that have multiple platforms usually share the parts bin. Nothing uncommon in any company, whether they built engines, transmissions, or wooden ducks!

[Leadfoot]

tvrfan,

You really need to research things before making some of your comments, like nene said the Gallardo is not a Lamborghini developed product but one design by Audi themselves.

To say that Audi can develop high revving, high performance engines is as silly as statement as I have ever heard, think about the amount of motorsport they have been involved in throughout the years.

[quattro Gmbh]

They have been involved in motorsport mostly with turbo-charged engines. Better they continue making turbo-engines.

[Leadfoot]

They have been involved in motorsport mostly with turbo-charged engines. Better they continue making turbo-engines.

True but the same could be said of Porsche's motorsport history through the years though no one would said the above about them. Audi's technical skills as engineers is second to none.

[quattro Gmbh]

I would rather think that Cosworth had a hand in it, just like the B5 RS4 (well, at least the basic design, before Audi got rid of them.)

I agree and isn't Cosworth Technology still owned by Audi? I'm not sure.

[RussianM3_dude]

Also, Honda are masters of 4 cylinder engines. It's not like they have roadcar V8s and a racing V8 would be too difficult to turn into a road engine, with consumption figures and emission restrictions. I say it's BS. The RS4 engine has basically next to zero race tech in it.

[Mockenrue]

The RS4 engine has basically next to zero race tech in it.

Apart from FSI, of course. ;)

[rs-mad]

and the piston speed

[Leadfoot]

Also, Honda are masters of 4 cylinder engines. It's not like they have roadcar V8s and a racing V8 would be too difficult to turn into a road engine, with consumption figures and emission restrictions. I say it's BS. The RS4 engine has basically next to zero race tech in it.

M3_dude,

Zero race tech you say, :hihi:

It's the highest piston rate outside of a racing engine, well above anything with an M brand on it. Sometime your funny, sometime your rude...............and others your bordering on being a d1ck.

[RussianM3_dude]

I mean, it's not an engine derived from a racing engine. It's just a tuned street engine. It's not like somebody took a LeMan engine, capped the revs and Voila!!!

[Leadfoot]

I mean, it's not an engine derived from a racing engine. It's just a tuned street engine. It's not like somebody took a LeMan engine, capped the revs and Voila!!!

And tell me what current M-powered engine has this, none that I know of. In fact I can't think of a single M-power engine which was a race engine first and then adapted.

[RussianM3_dude]

Neither are they. M engines are just tuned street engines.

[Leadfoot]

Neither are they. M engines are just tuned street engines.

Also explain your comments.:w:

You are continuously picking faults with Audi but when quizzed your beloved BMW aren't any different.

As someone with an M3 on order I would not for one minute place the M3's v8 ahead of the RS4's engine, if anything I would rate the RS4 a better overall engine package, it's more responsive and feels more powerful from zero to 7000rpm, so what if the M3 over the final 1000rpm is a little better, that only benefits you when going for it hell for leather.

I just wonder when the S5 finally comes and I get to driving it properly will I still be so keen on the M3. I reckon sometime in late Jan/early Feb I will have to have another test drive in the M3 just to confirm I am making the right decision.

[RussianM3_dude]

Well, M engines basically share their blocks and components with street engines. M engines DO have individual throttle butterflys like race cars, however Ferrari engines rev better with just 2. The only engine that can concievably be called a true bridge between the street and race engines is the new EVO spec FXX engine.

As for the RS4 engine, I find it lacks throttle response at low revs and has an annoying injection whine. I find it to be like a US V8 that can rev to 8000rpm. An E46 M3 was actually hard to drive in the city in Sport mode.

[Benman]

I'm not sure why everyone is making such a big deal, it is not like it is so unbelievable. Honda has experience with high reving NA V8s, Audi didn't. No biggie that they might possibly concult them.

Look at Harley (no offense to Audi :D), they consulted Porsche for the V-Rod. People do it all the time. Honda is an engine company BTW...

Ben:addict:

[RussianM3_dude]

Honda does not make street vehicle v8s. Audi had probably more experience with them AND Cosworth.

[Benman]

Honda does not make street vehicle v8s. Audi had probably more experience with them AND Cosworth.

You missed my point. Porsche didn't have experience with V bike motors, but were still consulted, it happens. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[El_cucaracha]

as i know, cosworth tech. still belongs tu Audi....