BMW M3 Supertest in Sport Auto

[KresoF1]

Hockenheim 1.14,3min

Ring 8.05min

Michelin Pilot Cup+ tires(19")
280km/h limiter option


BTW, unofficially R8 Ring time with Magnetic Ride and Corsa tires is 8.00min...

[HKS786]

lmao I was just about to post this

[RussianM3_dude]

Sounds pretty good. I wonder what the old M3 could have done with the same tires though and no limiter.

[Erik]

I'm not sure the old one was strong enough to hit 250 km/h+ on the straight :D

[Clio16V]

Does anybody got some scans of the Supertest?

[Ti-Mike]

The fastest Audi R8 laptime so far at the Ring is a 7:55min driven by Frank Stippler (Audi DTM race driver), with R-Tronic and without Semi's.

[Speedou]

Without Semi's I really doubt that.

[Leadfoot]

The fastest Audi R8 laptime so far at the Ring is a 7:55min driven by Frank Stippler (Audi DTM race driver), with R-Tronic and without Semi's.

That's about right and that's is why I was so amazed by the bad showing in the Sportauto supertest, a full 9s off the pace and that was with R-compound.

Even a time of 8 minutes is slower than it should be capable.

[Leadfoot]

Sounds pretty good. I wonder what the old M3 could have done with the same tires though and no limiter.

The old M3 would have been capable of a little better with the right rubber but not much better than 8:16~17 at best. That's all the semi race tyres will give you on the ring. As for the limiter, I reckon Erik said it best.

I reckon if any car should improve on these tyres it will be something like the RS4 etc. as these car are more nose heavy and as such will heat up their front tyres quicker than either the M3 or R8.

Though better than the RS4 I am a bit surprised as to how little the gap is between them, remember the video at the M5board event, the M3 could clearly put clean air between the two so on every decent straight the M3 would have been pulling meters out of the RS4 every time. So when to think of where the start/stop point is on the ring they are only crossing it at say 50mph, at that speed 4 seconds will only amount to about 90meters. Clearly the RS4 is more than a match of the M3 in the corners.

[Leadfoot]

Hockenheim 1.14,3min

Ring 8.05min

Michelin Pilot Cup+ tires(19")
280km/h limiter option

Both times are better than the RS4, the time on the Hockenheim track was to be expected as it's a shorter tighter track which all suit the rwd chassis of the M3 better.

This limiter option, is this available in the UK. :hahahehe:

[KresoF1]

That 280km/h option is included in M Driving Package(code is 07ME). It is available in almost all countries in continental Europe so ask your BMW dealer about it...

[Ti-Mike]

Without Semi's I really doubt that.

My R8 was delivered with the new Pirelli PZero R01 which is the standart configuration on the R8, this tyres are very close to a semi but still considered as High end street tyre not semi.

[quattro Gmbh]

BTW, unofficially R8 Ring time with Magnetic Ride and Corsa tires is 8.00min...

unofficially time from..? haven't sport auto already driven r8?

[Leadfoot]

If I'm not mistaken someone said that Sportauto would be re-testing the R8 because of it's time, I think it was KresoF1.

Though even 8:00 dead is still off the true pace of the car, the low 7:5?s would be nearer the truth.

[Clio16V]

M3 Supertest:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ErikT595/M3%20supertest/1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ErikT595/M3%20supertest/2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ErikT595/M3%20supertest/3.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ErikT595/M3%20supertest/4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ErikT595/M3%20supertest/5.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ErikT595/M3%20supertest/6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ErikT595/M3%20supertest/7.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ErikT595/M3%20supertest/8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ErikT595/M3%20supertest/9.jpg

[Leadfoot]

It's a car I hate in red.

[Z07]

It's a car I hate.

^
Fixed.;) :D

[KresoF1]

If I'm not mistaken someone said that Sportauto would be re-testing the R8 because of it's time, I think it was KresoF1.

Though even 8:00 dead is still off the true pace of the car, the low 7:5?s would be nearer the truth.

Leadie, low 7.5Xmin???? You must be joking...

The fastest Ring time officially claimed from Audi for R8 is7:55min driven by Frank Stippler (Audi DTM race driver).

BTW, on the re-run by SA they tired R-Tronic and manual. Both with Buckets, Corsas and Ceramics. One achived 8.00min, other 7.58min... This is it. Belive it or not but, I am very pleased for 7.58min.

[Leadfoot]

Like you said the 'official' claimed time from Audi was 7:55 by Stippler with normal tyres and not R-compound which can be specced. I believe the agree opinion is that the difference between the two is about 3seconds which if true would put the R8 capable of 7:52s and this is pretty much what I was hinting at.

[RussianM3_dude]

It's a car I hate in red.

///M often makes rubbish colours. Well, love 'em or hate 'em colours really. This is where Audi is ahead. Once they got colours that everybody likes, they stopped fixing what isn't broken. Now BMW on the other hand... makes 10 shades of black, 10 shades of blues... and none is really that good, plus the "special" colours are very... well... special. I used the have PhoenixYellow which i affectionally called "Jewish Racing Gold" or "McDonalds Mustard". Then there was the Smurf Blue, Coagulated Blood Red etc. There problem is that they only look good under a very specific lighting condition. Mine was either under direct sunlight (sparkling gold) or under streetlamps at night (liquid yellow/green).

[Leadfoot]

Can I add another name for PhoenixYellow, what about Bile yellow.puke:

:lovl: :lovl: :lovl:

[buyalemon]

So the new M3 beats the 2 year old RS4 with 4 sec over 20km with better tires ...not very impressive! How about a new lap in wet, damp or snow?

[Leadfoot]

So the new M3 beats the 2 year old RS4 with 4 sec over 20km with better tires ...not very impressive! How about a new lap in wet, damp or snow?

I can't agree with racing is such conditions (wet) on the road but as the ring is a closed circuit I think something like this would be interesting, though still too dangerous. But in theory I wouldn't be surprised to see the RS4 putting a gap of 20+ seconds on the M3 which would place the RS4 out of sight on that very long final straight.

[KresoF1]

Only one thing here is not true-tires!

RS4 equiped with Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires, Ceramic front brakes and Sport Suspension + did that 8.09min so, your asumption about tires is not accurate...

New lap on the Ring covered by snow??!! With winter tires I guess?? Really better not to comment this suggestion...

[Leadfoot]

Only one thing here is not true-tires!

RS4 equiped with Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires, Ceramic front brakes and Sport Suspension + did that 8.09min so, your asumption about tires is not accurate...

New lap on the Ring covered by snow??!! With winter tires I guess?? Really better not to comment this suggestion...

I wasn't suggesting a snow lap, heaven forbid but an improvement of 20 seconds over the M3 would be quite believable in the wet.

We could debate all day long about which tyre is better Corsas or the Michelin equivalents, the simple facts are the RS4 comes with Pirelli and the M3 with Michelin.

KersoF1, am I not correct in saying that Sportauto are to re-test the R8 again?

[RussianM3_dude]

There was a test between the B6 S4 and the E46 M3 in the wet... M3 won, had better traction too (front end).

[Leadfoot]

I read that AUTOCAR review many a year ago and it was as much BS back then as it is now. Clearly you didn't read it yourself.

[RussianM3_dude]

It was a US magazine.

[Leadfoot]

It was a US magazine.

Which one? The only comparison I ever knew of was the one in AUTOCAR, are you sure it wasn't just a rewrite of the same test?

[RussianM3_dude]

I'll try to look it up.

[KresoF1]

I wasn't suggesting a snow lap, heaven forbid but an improvement of 20 seconds over the M3 would be quite believable in the wet.

We could debate all day long about which tyre is better Corsas or the Michelin equivalents, the simple facts are the RS4 comes with Pirelli and the M3 with Michelin.

KersoF1, am I not correct in saying that Sportauto are to re-test the R8 again?

Leadie,

I was not commenting your post but, buyalemon's...

You are correct-new R8 test by SA will be published next year(March or April issue).

[Leadfoot]

Leadie,

I was not commenting your post but, buyalemon's...

You are correct-new R8 test by SA will be published next year(March or April issue).

Do you know if this has happen yet or is it still to come, the lap of the ring that is.

[KresoF1]

7.58min for R8 with Magnetic Ride, Ceramics and Corsas. In original Supertest they tested version with standard suspension...

[Leadfoot]

7.58min for R8 with Magnetic Ride, Ceramics and Corsas. In original Supertest they tested version with standard suspension...

Still not as good as I had hoped but at least it proves something I have always said, at MagneticRide is better than standard suspension.

Don't they usually test on Hockenheim as well in a supertest, did you hear if it too is to be re-tested and if so what was the time?

[Ruergard]

7.58min for R8 with Magnetic Ride, Ceramics and Corsas. In original Supertest they tested version with standard suspension...

Interesting, thanks for that!

I wonder the same as Leadfoot, how about the Hockenheim time? Would be nice to see a re-test there to..

[Leadfoot]

Does anyone know how the R8's time on Hockenheim compares to the new M3 and the old CSL, basing on what it has achieved at the ring then it would be logical to assume somewhere between the two.

[KresoF1]

1.12,7min for R8 with standard suspension, Ceramics and Corsas.

M3 e92 with Cups+, 280km/h limiter did 1.14,3min.

M3 CSL e46 did 1.13,5min with Cups(but, this old Cups were actually semislicks! Not R1 tires.).

[Leadfoot]

1.12,7min for R8 with standard suspension, Ceramics and Corsas.

M3 e92 with Cups+, 280km/h limiter did 1.14,3min.

M3 CSL e46 did 1.13,5min with Cups(but, this old Cups were actually semislicks! Not R1 tires.).

Explain what you mean by this please because from where I am sitting it looks like the R8 is quicker than the CSL on corners which changes everything in my opinion with regards to it's ring time.

Are you meaning that on the ring the CSL was using R1 rubber but on the Hockenheim track it was semislicks. Surely that would be a little funny to test a car with different rubber on the same supertest.

But if it was using the same rubber on each test then I would like to come back to the R8's ring lap time. I remember we all had the debate on the acceleration differences between the RS4 and CSL and officially their is no difference, the R8 is equally as quick as the RS4 and as such the CSL as well. So simple logic means that it should be able to lap the ring quicker than the CSL, it's proved it can corner better than the CSL because it produced a quicker time on the tight cornering Hockenheim track and we know it's acceleration times up to 150mph are as near identical to the CSL so one must assume that it lap of 7:58 was either achieved under worse track conditions or it's lap was compromised by traffic.

Would anyone agree with my opinion on this. :brag:

[KresoF1]

First about old Cups on CSL... These tires were almost unusable on wet road. Also, they are much softer then current generation of Cup+(new version used on new M3 and Porsche 997 GT2)... Without old Cups NO 7.50min Ring time for old CSL IMHO...

Next thing is top speed at Doettinger Hoehe(top speed point on last long straight) on the Ring...

R8 did in first test only 254km/h... RS4 did 262km/h and new M3 did 266km/h... Even on second test R8 did only 261km/h... R8 problem is too much downforce at high speed(above 220km/h)... This is the reason that R8 is not that fast at that long straight...

BUT, R8 is extremly stable at above 250km/h! With RS4 and new M3 things are not that easy since they do NOT produce any downforce at high speed...

Ring is the POWER track. Look for example Porsche 997 Turbo-it did 7.54min on first Ring test by Sport Auto(it is only 2s improvement for old 996 Turbo 7.56min), after Porsche did small suspension software changes SA retested 997 Turbo on the Ring and achived 7.52min... So, small software suspension control unit changes and 2s faster...

Suspension is very important on the Ring-just look at new 997 GT2: It is 50hp more powerfull then 997 Turbo and features excellent RWD setup(with clever LSD), more extrem PASM(Porsche active suspension) and is aerodynamiclly even better... Ring time by Sport Auto-7.33min... ONLY 1s slower then Porsche factory time by Walter Rohrl...

BTW, I spoke directly with one person who is working for Porsche and he told me directly that R8 is 4s slower on the Ring then 997 Turbo under ideal condition... They tested it and they(Porsche) were impressed by R8... Test driver? W.Rohrl...

So, cut the all BS stuff. R8 is great car, one of the best drivers car currently on the market. Faster on the track then 997 Turbo? Only on EVO Bedford track I guess...
Faster then M3 e92? On all tracks in the world...

[Leadfoot]

KersoF1,

I hope the BS thing about the R8 wasn't directed at me personally. I was only voicing an opinion as to why on earth a car which is clearly as quick on the straight as the CSL and even better in the corner couldn't beat it on the ring which has on average 8 times more corners than more short tracks. You highlighted that the R8 is right on the money with regards to acceleration as it was only 1Km/h behind the RS4 and 5Km/h behind the M3.

In any case I think it will be very interesting to see what the R8 will do when it get the V10 and the best part of 100hp more to play with. I am reckoning on a time in the 7:44~49s mark.

[Rutkowsky]

and i'm still amazed at CSL's 7.50 time. . Anyways, thinking about R8, it is a shame that a car of this presence hasn't received V10 in the first place just like i think, the real e46 M3 should be the CS one from 2005 (quicker steering, bigger brakes) just my opinion

[KresoF1]

KersoF1,

I hope the BS thing about the R8 wasn't directed at me personally. I was only voicing an opinion as to why on earth a car which is clearly as quick on the straight as the CSL and even better in the corner couldn't beat it on the ring which has on average 8 times more corners than more short tracks. You highlighted that the R8 is right on the money with regards to acceleration as it was only 1Km/h behind the RS4 and 5Km/h behind the M3.

In any case I think it will be very interesting to see what the R8 will do when it get the V10 and the best part of 100hp more to play with. I am reckoning on a time in the 7:44~49s mark.

Leadie,

BS remark was not aimed at you. Most of the time I agree fully with you!:thumb: :cheers:

It was aimed at those members who claimed that R8 is not any faster then new M3. R8 is true sportscar IMHO and new M3 is although great car indeed just sport coupe or sport limousine...

How fast will be futur R10?? I do not know but, it will be heavier and more powerfull for sure... Will that translate into a faster Ring time? Probably...

But, R8 is such a balanced car. Personally I am not big fan of V10 engines so, for me R8 is more then enough...

[bastordd]

The R8 is more fast than RS4 and E92 M3 in Hockenheim and ring!
What is the question?

[Mori]

I wonder if I would get below 10mins on the Ring personally if I owned the RS4/M3. Doubt it. If it was a rental however.... ;)

But if you put in a regular driver in any of these cars I doubt that the M3 would be faster - it requires more of the driver to put it simply.

[Leadfoot]

I wonder if I would get below 10mins on the Ring personally if I owned the RS4/M3. Doubt it. If it was a rental however.... ;)

But if you put in a regular driver in any of these cars I doubt that the M3 would be faster - it requires more of the driver to put it simply.

In the dry I would reckon 10 minutes is not a problem with a day or two familiarity, especially in something like the RS4 which is much easier to drive quickly than the M3. To drop nearer 9 minutes, now that's a whole different ball game, that would require a bit of skillful driving.

Don't know how good you are Mori to comment on such a thing. ;)

[RussianM3_dude]

Jeremy Clarkson did what in an SType? 9 minutes something????

[Leadfoot]

Jeremy Clarkson did what in an SType? 9 minutes something????

9:59..........I should know. ;)

[raulg]

9:59..........I should know. ;)


I heard 9:63!

:rolleyes:

[RussianM3_dude]

9:59..........I should know. ;)

Well, here you go. So something like 9:20 with the RS4 after a lap or two and little traffic should be do-able.

[Leadfoot]

Well, here you go. So something like 9:20 with the RS4 after a lap or two and little traffic should be do-able.

To drop to nearer 9 minutes will require a bit of familiarity with the track and a reasonably skilled driver (someone with some trackdays experience). The best way to become familiar with the track is one of the gaming consoles like X-BOX, I know is won't give you the true dips and bumps that the real thing will but at least you will start to remember what corners are next and that is half the battle.

I'm hoping to collect the M3 in Germany this summer and take a run to the ring. I have still to check this out with the dealer if it's possible.

[RussianM3_dude]

Cool, I'd love to come and rip the 'Ring too. Always meant too... Anyhoo, there is a company that rents out 'Ring Ready cars (with insuarance and everything.) They have an R26, 350Z, 320is, E36 M3 and.... E92 M3. Maybe you can rent that for a day... I gather you ARE over 25?

[Leadfoot]

Cool, I'd love to come and rip the 'Ring too. Always meant too... Anyhoo, there is a company that rents out 'Ring Ready cars (with insuarance and everything.) They have an R26, 350Z, 320is, E36 M3 and.... E92 M3. Maybe you can rent that for a day... I gather you ARE over 25?

Long ago.........long ago.:cry:

[RussianM3_dude]

So were you out on the streets as a wee lad singing "It's a long way to Tipperary" along with all the older boys heading for the War?

[Leadfoot]

So were you out on the streets as a wee lad singing "It's a long way to Tipperary" along with all the older boys heading for the War?

Where are you from? :eye:

I haven't heard that since I was a child.;)

[Speedou]

My first ever lap was 9.56 in 535dA Msport. Fifth lap was somewhere close 9.30 (can't really remember). One friend lapped his e46 M3 to 8.22 when he was driving tenth lap ever...I'm saying this what I have been saying a long time: Clarkson is funny as hell, but can't really drive.

[7:53 RS6]

First about old Cups on CSL... These tires were almost unusable on wet road. Also, they are much softer then current generation of Cup+(new version used on new M3 and Porsche 997 GT2)... Without old Cups NO 7.50min Ring time for old CSL IMHO...

Next thing is top speed at Doettinger Hoehe(top speed point on last long straight) on the Ring...

R8 did in first test only 254km/h... RS4 did 262km/h and new M3 did 266km/h... Even on second test R8 did only 261km/h... R8 problem is too much downforce at high speed(above 220km/h)... This is the reason that R8 is not that fast at that long straight...

BUT, R8 is extremly stable at above 250km/h! With RS4 and new M3 things are not that easy since they do NOT produce any downforce at high speed...

Ring is the POWER track. Look for example Porsche 997 Turbo-it did 7.54min on first Ring test by Sport Auto(it is only 2s improvement for old 996 Turbo 7.56min), after Porsche did small suspension software changes SA retested 997 Turbo on the Ring and achived 7.52min... So, small software suspension control unit changes and 2s faster...

Suspension is very important on the Ring-just look at new 997 GT2: It is 50hp more powerfull then 997 Turbo and features excellent RWD setup(with clever LSD), more extrem PASM(Porsche active suspension) and is aerodynamiclly even better... Ring time by Sport Auto-7.33min... ONLY 1s slower then Porsche factory time by Walter Rohrl...

BTW, I spoke directly with one person who is working for Porsche and he told me directly that R8 is 4s slower on the Ring then 997 Turbo under ideal condition... They tested it and they(Porsche) were impressed by R8... Test driver? W.Rohrl...

So, cut the all BS stuff. R8 is great car, one of the best drivers car currently on the market. Faster on the track then 997 Turbo? Only on EVO Bedford track I guess...
Faster then M3 e92? On all tracks in the world...


The old cup tier are not at all undrivebel in rain, far from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCJrcJzmFG0

Sorry but this is personal, some might feel the old cups are not drivebel in rain other dont have a problem. I drive total worn old cup tiers in rain in this film, i do 230km in poring rain on the long straight, whats the problem?.

One could commet much regarding this and that, but I dont bother, its an never ending story these things...

Semi slicks, whats that...street legal normal tier thats what old cup was, just like corsa tiers. I would say the only thing diffrent on the new cup tiers vs old is it wet handeling, wich is slightly better in the new cup, but the dry abilities is the same.

I personally did spend some time with Frank stippler on the sport auto training this summer. He personaly told me that he drove the R8 on ap 7.50min complete full lap! Remember the SA lap is only 20.6km and the complete full is 20.8km. So all Sport Auto laps one nead to add seconds for section T13 ap, 200m, wich take ap 4-7 seconds depending on car, driver etc. Stippler said he drove this stock R8 on corsa wich is an street legal tier just like the cup is.

As well I am sure stippler would drive CSL faster than Horst did as well, not to strange.

There are drivers and drivers.
Still SA tests is as god as it gets, it will never bee 100% but still its a pointer, its not like its writhen in stone.

[Leadfoot]

7:53RS6,

Thanks mate for confirming what I already thought, that the R8 could lap in 7:50. That is a more reasonable time for the car than the ridiculous 8:04 that it currently has.

P.S.

I wonder what time he or one of his fellow Audi drivers has lapped the ring in the RS6, any guesses. ;)