B8 S4 dissapointing?

[tvrfan]

its confirmed that the B8 S4 has becoming a 3.0 Biturbo 330hp engine. iam dissapointed, it has lesser hp then the old S4. its a downgrade in my eyes. and performance should be really close to 335i and old S4. i hope they doing it a little lightweigth too. has audi experience with carbon or other lightweight materials in cars??? ( not aluminium). audi needs a beater that has more hp than the old model and should be way faster then bmws 335i. thats what a B8 S4 should be.

[Erik]

Hp is one thing. Performance is another.

I am sure it will be faster. :)

[tvrfan]

lighter than the standart b8 models? i hope so, audi needs to use lightweight materials in their S cars that would be great.

[MPT]

Hp is one thing. Performance is another.

I am sure it will be faster. :)

I think Erik is right. Plus it will have more torque (?).

I doubt though, they will put it on a serious diet.

[RXBG]

if we can count on it being as overengineered as the B5, the mods you'll be able to do to this one will kill anyhting that can be done to the 335i engine.

good time to be a tuner.

[artur777]

I think that V6 Bi-Turbo is much better option that NA V8 4.2 because:

- it's lighter - better weight balance
- it's more torquey at low revvs - better acceleration and dynamics
- it's tunable - better and cheaper aftermarket programs

So for me personally S4 is more likely that S5 due to its engine option.
And I think that S4 will be able to post 5.2-5.4 sec for 0-100km/h.
It's better than B7 S4 and 335i. And after a certain chip tuning it will leave S5 for dead.
And yes! - IT WILL BE AWD

[EKaru]

I think that V6 Bi-Turbo is much better option that NA V8 4.2 because:

- it's lighter - better weight balance
- it's more torquey at low revvs - better acceleration and dynamics
- it's tunable - better and cheaper aftermarket programs

So for me personally S4 is more likely that S5 due to its engine option.
And I think that S4 will be able to post 5.2-5.4 sec for 0-100km/h.
It's better than B7 S4 and 335i. And after a certain chip tuning it will leave S5 for dead.
And yes! - IT WILL BE AWD

Audi S4 2.7t engine weight = 436.5 lbs

Audi S4 4.2 engine weight = 430 lbs...

sources:
http://www.import-heaven.net/specs_audi_s4_quattro.shtml
http://www.passatworld.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-86028.html

[Yahh]

Even though the old 2.7 litre is heavier than the V8, the chances for the new one being lighter are very high.

[Leadfoot]

This one is for tvrfan,

The old S4, remember I had one was able to get to 100km/h and 200km/h in 5.6s and 20.6s respectively.

So what do we know about the new one ;) , well it's down 14hp but should be good for a similar torque figure to the power output and it WILL produce this torque figure from about 1500rpm ~ 5500rpm, so for the majority of time it will feel more powerful than the old S4 and that is before you even start on the gearboxes. The old S4 had is bloody good 6speed but that was a manual and when compared to the new 7speed DSG, which means it will stay on the boil more of the time and charge gear 0.2s quicker each shift.

Weight wise, think along the same as the old car so while the Power to Weight might be down slightly but the Torque to Weight will be up and when you add all of this with the gearbox and everything I reckon it will all but match the current times for the S5.

So instead of 100km/h taking 5.6s it will be 5.1~5.2s and the 200km/h will drop from 20.6s down to 18.6s~18.9s.

And all of this before you even start on things like the Sports Diff with Quattro and Audi Select Drive's suspension and steering options. This car will be so far removed from the old S4 it's unreal.

[EKaru]

Even though the old 2.7 litre is heavier than the V8, the chances for the new one being lighter are very high.

The question is how much lighter.... The answer is not by much when you consider the weight of the 335i's twin turbo I-6 engine weight:

http://i5.tinypic.com/8724c5s.jpg

[AndyBG]

B8 S4 is perfect !

In todays Audi line-up S4 isn't in the same place as B7 S4, and all other S4s were. Back then S4 was top of the line A4, and if you remember B6 S4 was released after BMW e46 M3 and it got one hp more that M3. Now, S4s main rival is 335 i and it has 24 hp more. RS 4 will do the job in the ''M teritory''. :D

[chewym]

As the table shows there is only about 50-60 pounds [23-27 kg] difference between the V6 and the V8. Weight difference will be minimal after two turbochargers and intercooler(s) will be added. And the supercharger that is rumored would add even more weight.

Audi has not confirmed the 330 hp figure. I think it will be above 340 hp just to do better than the B6/B7 S4.

[Mockenrue]

I agree. The excitement over the tuning possibilities that RXBG mentions is perfectly understandable, but not everyone is into that and I would hope that the new car exceeds the B6/7 figures 'straight out of the box' - even if only marginally - as that's what a lot of potential buyers will expect. It has to be seen to be 'better' than the outgoing model in many people's eyes, and I wouldn't be surprised if some were put off at the prospect of having to spend money on the car just to give it the edge over its predecessor numbers-wise, even if it were actually quicker in reality.

[El_cucaracha]

i hope that they made 3.0L bi-turbo to compete with Lancer evolution X and subaru imrpeza WRX STI... i hope it will be light weight, and there be no understeer like on R8......

[Leadfoot]

Audi has not confirmed the 330 hp figure. I think it will be above 340 hp just to do better than the B6/B7 S4.

You are right and the same thing happened with the RS6 which more mags had it's power at 520~550hp and it ended up 580hp, but this time round we know that it has to stay below that of the S5 as Audi are positioning it above the S4, so I reckon the figures are about right.

[+44 Dave]

i hope it will be light weight, and there be no understeer like on R8......

Understeer on the R8 ??? I'm guessing you havent seen any video reviews of the R8 then ?
The R8 has a tendancy to oversteer if anything, being as the quattro drive sends anything up to 90% of power to the rear wheels.

[tvrfan]

whats with gearbox??? is audi working on a 8speed automatic and 7speed DSG, is that right??? hmm last question: has audi experience with lightweight materials like carbon usw. (not aluminuim spaceframe) in cars???

[+44 Dave]

whats with gearbox??? is audi working on a 8speed automatic and 7speed DSG, is that right??? hmm last question: has audi experience with lightweight materials like carbon usw. (not aluminuim spaceframe) in cars???

Audi have used Carbon fibre heavily in their multi winning LeMans R10 racing cars. They are yet to transfer such technology (in body panels anyway) to their roadcars. Carbon brakes are availible on some models.
I do not see how this is particularly important however is none of the competition are really using carbon fibre other than the M3's roof (not in competition with the S4) and i doubt that the M3's roof saves much wieght over say aluminium anyway.

[Leadfoot]

The carbon fibre roof of the M3 is a gimmick, nothing more. It's saving less than 5kgs over a steel roof for heaven sakes.

Though if it makes people think that they and their cars are better than the competition because of this then clearly it was worth it from a marketing point of view, but don't expect to notice any difference when driving one because there isn't any.

[quattro Gmbh]

5 kg weight saving on the seat maybe wouldn't make much difference but 5 kg weight saving on the roof definitely lowers center of gravity.

what you say is like saying that fsi system is rubbish because it helps fuel economy only by 3% or something like that.

[quattro Gmbh]

Audi have used Carbon fibre heavily in their multi winning LeMans R10 racing cars. They are yet to transfer such technology (in body panels anyway) to their roadcars. Carbon brakes are availible on some models.
I do not see how this is particularly important however is none of the competition are really using carbon fibre other than the M3's roof (not in competition with the S4) and i doubt that the M3's roof saves much wieght over say aluminium anyway.

R8 also uses some carbonfiber materials in the bodywork but the main reason why carbon is less used is that it costs way much than its benefits.

[Leadfoot]

5 kg weight saving on the seat maybe wouldn't make much difference but 5 kg weight saving on the roof definitely lowers center of gravity.

what you say is like saying that fsi system is rubbish because it helps fuel economy only by 3% or something like that.

What I am saying is that you will not notice the difference between an M3 with a steel roof and one with a CF roof but if the opinion of people is that it's a great thing compared to other brand who don't do it then as a marketing tool it has served it's purpose.

[RussianM3_dude]

The CFRP roof in the new M3 is indeed a gimmick, since there so many superfluous technologies in there anyways, and it's more of a GT car anyways, so why bother with the gimmicky roof at all??? I only wish for cars to follow the motorcycle route, more powerful AND lighter with each new model.

[Leadfoot]

The CFRP roof in the new M3 is indeed a gimmick, since there so many superfluous technologies in there anyways, and it's more of a GT car anyways, so why bother with the gimmicky roof at all??? I only wish for cars to follow the motorcycle route, more powerful AND lighter with each new model.

Hey, twice in one year we actually agree with each other.........it's starting to become a habit. ;)

[HKS786]

What I am saying is that you will not notice the difference between an M3 with a steel roof and one with a CF roof but if the opinion of people is that it's a great thing compared to other brand who don't do it then as a marketing tool it has served it's purpose.

Yeah that's true. Also, a lot of people that mod the E90 and E92 models love carbonfibre parts (hoods, spoilers etc) so as you can imagine they love the CF roof even if there is hardly a difference between that and steel roofs.

[HKS786]

Hey, twice in one year we actually agree with each other.........it's starting to become a habit. ;)

lmao, no offence M3dude but usually when I see a new post by you I expect it to be in disagreement with everyone else. Makes a pleasant change :lovl:

[RussianM3_dude]

Hey, twice in one year we actually agree with each other.........it's starting to become a habit. ;)

I know, it's scary... What's next, me praising Audis??? Nah...

[+44 Dave]

I know, it's scary... What's next, me praising Audis??? Nah...

Yeh come on. How wierd would that be? People actually liking Audi's on a forum titled 'RS6' ...

[Leadfoot]

I know, it's scary... What's next, me praising Audis??? Nah...

To true, an idiot will never understand greatness. :lovl:

[RussianM3_dude]

I bet if you go on a Trabant forum, some members will get all misty eyed about them too.

Nothing wrong with liking Audis, I just personally think they are soul crushingly dull, only a beige Benz R class would be more yawn inducing. I would honestly buy a Cadillac CTS before an A6. In fact I really have it for the A6 range. The Allroad is probably my pet hate car. I don't want to offend anybody who owns one... but boy, do I get depressed when I see one.

[HKS786]

It's funny but I actually really like the A6 especially the S-Line. Maybe you'll like the facelift better? time will tell...

[AndyBG]

I bet if you go on a Trabant forum, some members will get all misty eyed about them too.

Nothing wrong with liking Audis, I just personally think they are soul crushingly dull, only a beige Benz R class would be more yawn inducing. I would honestly buy a Cadillac CTS before an A6. In fact I really have it for the A6 range. The Allroad is probably my pet hate car. I don't want to offend anybody who owns one... but boy, do I get depressed when I see one.

Is that goes for RS 6 too ?

[RussianM3_dude]

A bit. A wagon, automatic, heavy... For the price I'd get something else.
I mean it's not like you will be going fast with a trunk full of stuff and if you are not carrying a lot of stuff, why get a wagon??? Most Avants I see are basically empty 95% of the time. Completely useless car outside of Germany.

[RAMBLER]

A bit. A wagon, automatic, heavy... For the price I'd get something else.
I mean it's not like you will be going fast with a trunk full of stuff and if you are not carrying a lot of stuff, why get a wagon??? Most Avants I see are basically empty 95% of the time. Completely useless car outside of Germany.

Damn RussianM3_dude you must really hate Audi's alot to compare there whole model line to the R-Class.:noshake: I'm just wondering what products from BMW do you find appealing? The bulk of the reviews between the E92 M3 and the B7 RS4 state how much more attention the RS4 commands in comparison to the M3, and that's saying alot considering the E92 M3 just arrived! Furthermore Audi's :R8: is possible the hottest ticket item in years, and there's no need to debate how sick the S5 is when compared to any BMW product my friend!:revs:

[RussianM3_dude]

I don't like the M3 either (yes I already drove one). No, the S5 is not "sick" it's barely better then a 335, which is just a regular BMW.

[AndyBG]

A bit. A wagon, automatic, heavy... For the price I'd get something else.
I mean it's not like you will be going fast with a trunk full of stuff and if you are not carrying a lot of stuff, why get a wagon??? Most Avants I see are basically empty 95% of the time. Completely useless car outside of Germany.

Maybe some people just loves Avant looks of the car. What do you think about that... ?

[RussianM3_dude]

Some people, like to take long walks in the woods, talk about Goethe, wear cardigans and collect stamps. what do you think about that???

[AndyBG]

Some people, like to take long walks in the woods, talk about Goethe, wear cardigans and collect stamps. what do you think about that???

Yes, yes... Boring !

But, 580 hp under bonnet doesn't sounds boring to me...

[Leadfoot]

M3_dude,

By the sounds of it, unless it performance car are made is under your conditions then anything else is just boring. I think a big Estate car which will lap the ring in 8:0?s and post just over 4.0s 0-100km/h times is anything but boring.

[RussianM3_dude]

Not true. A "slow" Exige (time in the 8.40 range?) will be MUCH more fun then a bloated TGV Quattro. Fun is fun, no matter who's having it. audi drivers just tend to confuse fun and efficiency.

[chewym]

I guess you don't like any car. Go buy a car that you do like and stop complaining.

[RussianM3_dude]

Cars I like I can't afford.

[Myrtlebeach]

So you don't really like yourself then?

[The Pretender]

Audi has not confirmed the 330 hp figure. I think it will be above 340 hp just to do better than the B6/B7 S4.
The new 3.0 V6 Bi-TFSI engine is technical based on the RS6 engine, so ± 348 hp.

Jarod.

[chewym]

The new 3.0 V6 Bi-TFSI engine is technical based on the RS6 engine, so ± 348 hp.

Jarod.

Makes sense. But it wouldn't make sense for Audi to give the new S4 less power than the old one, as many others have said. And I don't think it would be hard to go to 350 form 330. I am thinking 340+ at least.

[RussianM3_dude]

I say 345.

[Phage]

I don't like the M3 either (yes I already drove one). No, the S5 is not "sick" it's barely better then a 335, which is just a regular BMW.

I don't agree, it looks a whole lot better then a 335.

[RussianM3_dude]

Looks, maybe. It has more presence on the road, especially with those lights. However performance-wise it's not so far ahead as to justify it's price.

[Leadfoot]

Looks, maybe. It has more presence on the road, especially with those lights. However performance-wise it's not so far ahead as to justify it's price.

I totally agree with you on the performance side of things, the S5 is only slightly better than the 335i but there is a lot more to owning a car than performance.

Sadly you have forgotten this or simply never knew it in the first place.

[RussianM3_dude]

Not exactly true. I had some non performance cars and was badly dissapointed. Jag XType, CLK320, Alfa Romeo GT (you would agree it's wildly stylish, oozes personality) I got rid of it after 7 months.

P.S. When I mean performance, I don't mean just pure numbers. I am thinking dun to drive mostly, Lotus Exige type fun.

[HKS786]

I totally agree with you on the performance side of things, the S5 is only slightly better than the 335i but there is a lot more to owning a car than performance.

Sadly you have forgotten this or simply never knew it in the first place.

You're right. The S5 looks a class better than the 335i even with Msport kit on it. It has a really wide stance and great lines. LED headlights are great too.

[RAMBLER]

You're right. The S5 looks a class better than the 335i even with Msport kit on it. It has a really wide stance and great lines. LED headlights are great too.

Forget how much more appealing the S5's exterior is when compared to the 335i, it's the interior that justifies the price gap imho! High quality materials surround you, BMW continues to disregard the importance of interior layout and quality materials. I'm starting to think BMW's content with it's love it or hate it image!:)

[HKS786]

Oh yeah the interior too. I meant to mention that. I love the interior over the 335i interior. Forget that, the S5 has better interior than the new M3 since it's so similar to 335i haha

[Cargo8]

how can you say "the 335 is just a normal bmw" while you're bashing A6, and not looking at the quattro high performance, etc but rather generalizing all Audi models?

[Leadfoot]

Not exactly true. I had some non performance cars and was badly dissapointed. Jag XType, CLK320, Alfa Romeo GT (you would agree it's wildly stylish, oozes personality) I got rid of it after 7 months.

P.S. When I mean performance, I don't mean just pure numbers. I am thinking dun to drive mostly, Lotus Exige type fun.

Clearly you have different requirement from a car than me, I have had Porsches, still own an Elan and driven the odd Elise but the continuous noise in the cabin is enough to make you addicted to headache pills. No offence to AndyBG but Lotus, Porsche, any lighter weight sportscar with the engine in the middle or the rear makes a hell of a din.

Great for a blast once in a while but tiresome to live with everyday. At my age I prefer a quiet cabin so I can listen to a bit of ClassicFM.




P.S. The CLassicFM was a bit of a joke..........it's Radio2.:D

[HKS786]

haha, I was just waiting for a "P.S ClassicFM was a joke" lol ;)

[Audiphile]

I bet if you go on a Trabant forum, some members will get all misty eyed about them too.

Nothing wrong with liking Audis, I just personally think they are soul crushingly dull, only a beige Benz R class would be more yawn inducing. I would honestly buy a Cadillac CTS before an A6. In fact I really have it for the A6 range. The Allroad is probably my pet hate car. I don't want to offend anybody who owns one... but boy, do I get depressed when I see one.

So, what it the point of you being on this blog then, and further what is the point of you at all being on an Audi enthusiast site?:vhmmm: You rarely add anything meaninigful to the blogs other than critisize Audi like a little BMW Fanboy (or is the work prick ok). I do not see the point of you being on the rs6.com site nor the value of your opinions! I tune them out completely as I know what your answer will be towards everything Audi anyway.

Also, I am most impressed how civil Audi enthusiasts are towards you considering you are in their "HOME" and considering how rude you get at times. I am quite sure an Audi enthusiast would not get the same treatment on an BMW fanboy site.

[AndyBG]

So, what it the point of you being on this blog then, and further what is the point of you at all being on an Audi enthusiast site?:vhmmm:

He is here with the mission, to convert us all. :D :hihi:

[Audiphile]

He is here with the mission, to convert us all. :D :hihi:

That's like Britney Spears (BMW owners) trying to teach Windows XP to Bill Gates (Audi Owners)... or it's like BMW Motorsports pretending it can compete against Audi Motorsports at any level.:)

[chewym]

Someone says that the V6 will be supercharged.

http://forums.audiworld.com/a5/msgs/14239.phtml

Has Audi made a better supercharger?

[El_cucaracha]

Understeer on the R8 ??? I'm guessing you havent seen any video reviews of the R8 then ?
The R8 has a tendancy to oversteer if anything, being as the quattro drive sends anything up to 90% of power to the rear wheels.

ohh, i meant that have no understeer like on R8... i wonted to say that R8 has no understeer and i wish S4 would be same... sorry for bad english

[HKS786]

Someone says that the V6 will be supercharged.

http://forums.audiworld.com/a5/msgs/14239.phtml

Has Audi made a better supercharger?

I'm not sure about that I'm sure it'll be turbo'd, anyway here's 2 new ps's:

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/uploads/Audi_News/001__scaled_600_079.jpg
http://www.fourtitude.com/news/uploads/Audi_News/s4_b8_header.jpg
http://www.fourtitude.com/news/uploads/Audi_News/004__scaled_600_041.jpg

[Damienr8]

Do you think that with the V6 Bi turbo, the price on the S4 will decrease and get closer to the 335's?

[Leadfoot]

I believe we will see a gap similar to that what the S5 vs 335ci has with the S4 vs 335i saloon.

Only this time the S4 will be the one with all the fancy toys to improve performance and handling.

[HKS786]

o0o0o, you clearly know a LOT about this S4. I'm jealous :D

[Damienr8]

I believe we will see a gap similar to that what the S5 vs 335ci has with the S4 vs 335i saloon.

Only this time the S4 will be the one with all the fancy toys to improve performance and handling.

Lets put it this way, as the 335i sedan holds a MSRP of 38,900, Where do you think the S4 pricing should fall?

I hate to go on a tangent, but would say a 42K base S4 cannabalize A4. 3.2 sales. Should audi just have a 240HP 2.0T then and the 340hp S4 and be gone with the 3.2L ???? MY BRAINN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :doh:

[RXBG]

prob a 220 hp 2.0T

a 3.2 V6 with 265 hp

and the S4 with 330

[Leadfoot]

Lets put it this way, as the 335i sedan holds a MSRP of 38,900, Where do you think the S4 pricing should fall?

I hate to go on a tangent, but would say a 42K base S4 cannabalize A4. 3.2 sales. Should audi just have a 240HP 2.0T then and the 340hp S4 and be gone with the 3.2L ???? MY BRAINN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :doh:

In the UK the S5 has a RRP of £40K or there abouts, a rough guess on the S4 would put it's price at £37.5K.


o0o0o, you clearly know a LOT about this S4. I'm jealous :D

Actually I know a lot less on the S4 than the future RS models.:hahahehe: As for them................well it's to early yet to stir up you natives.

[HKS786]

haha, damn you're lucky ! :cry:

[RussianM3_dude]

That's like Britney Spears (BMW owners) trying to teach Windows XP to Bill Gates (Audi Owners)... or it's like BMW Motorsports pretending it can compete against Audi Motorsports at any level.:)

Bwitney drives Benzes. BMWs are for LA Lawyers and Miami plastic surgeons.

[RussianM3_dude]

Clearly you have different requirement from a car than me, I have had Porsches, still own an Elan and driven the odd Elise but the continuous noise in the cabin is enough to make you addicted to headache pills. No offence to AndyBG but Lotus, Porsche, any lighter weight sportscar with the engine in the middle or the rear makes a hell of a din.

Great for a blast once in a while but tiresome to live with everyday. At my age I prefer a quiet cabin so I can listen to a bit of ClassicFM.




P.S. The CLassicFM was a bit of a joke..........it's Radio2.:D

Drove in a 430 Spider for 6hours+. Was a bit stirred but definetly not shaken. I understand though that you would have no place to put your walker in. :p

[RussianM3_dude]

So, what it the point of you being on this blog then, and further what is the point of you at all being on an Audi enthusiast site?:vhmmm: You rarely add anything meaninigful to the blogs other than critisize Audi like a little BMW Fanboy (or is the work prick ok). I do not see the point of you being on the rs6.com site nor the value of your opinions! I tune them out completely as I know what your answer will be towards everything Audi anyway.

Also, I am most impressed how civil Audi enthusiasts are towards you considering you are in their "HOME" and considering how rude you get at times. I am quite sure an Audi enthusiast would not get the same treatment on an BMW fanboy site.

And what has your contribution has been, Sir?

[Audiphile]

Not sure how to respond. Depends on what you mean by contribution. I come to this site to learn and see what the latest information is regarding Audi. I do not come here for negativity against Audi nor do I preach to be some automotive maven or expert. I really do not care what you think about what I "contribute." If I know it I will say it, if I don't then I learn and hope others have the answer. So, what do you contribute other than the standard line "BMW is better than Audi crap" fanboy rants. Fair and balanced you are not.

[RAMBLER]

Not sure how to respond. Depends on what you mean by contribution. I come to this site to learn and see what the latest information is regarding Audi. I do not come here for negativity against Audi nor do I preach to be some automotive maven or expert. I really do not care what you think about what I "contribute." If I know it I will say it, if I don't then I learn and hope others have the answer. So, what do you contribute other than the standard line "BMW is better than Audi crap" fanboy rants. Fair and balanced you are not.

Well put!;) I'm new to this forum and spend a good deal of my time reviewing older threads, it's obvious that RussianM3_dude has other motives for joining this forum. I guess he doesn't understand this is a forum for Audi fans..:trash:

[RussianM3_dude]

Not sure how to respond. Depends on what you mean by contribution. I come to this site to learn and see what the latest information is regarding Audi. I do not come here for negativity against Audi nor do I preach to be some automotive maven or expert. I really do not care what you think about what I "contribute." If I know it I will say it, if I don't then I learn and hope others have the answer. So, what do you contribute other than the standard line "BMW is better than Audi crap" fanboy rants. Fair and balanced you are not.

You came to learn, I came to teach.

So listen up, grasshopper...

[Carl Lassiter]

Not sure how to respond. Depends on what you mean by contribution. I come to this site to learn and see what the latest information is regarding Audi. I do not come here for negativity against Audi nor do I preach to be some automotive maven or expert. I really do not care what you think about what I "contribute." If I know it I will say it, if I don't then I learn and hope others have the answer. So, what do you contribute other than the standard line "BMW is better than Audi crap" fanboy rants. Fair and balanced you are not.

You're wasting your breath on this one. RussianM3Dude is what they call in internet speak, a troll.

[Leadfoot]

Is every pissed off listening to M3_dude comments?

[Phage]

You came to learn, I came to teach.

So listen up, grasshopper...

In that case you are fired. I want an unbiased teacher :music:

If i want to hear some cocky bloak ranting about that thinks he knows everything i'll just turn on an episode of Top Gear. :thumb:

[Leadfoot]

In that case you are fired. I want an unbiased teacher :music:

If i want to hear some cocky bloak ranting about that thinks he knows everything i'll just turn on an episode of Top Gear. :thumb:

Bad form old chap, Jeremy is my mate.

[Phage]

Bad form old chap

I like Top Gear leadie. :D

[RussianM3_dude]

Top Gear rocks. Clarkson too. I even read his column in the times.online.