Video: Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series vs. BMW M6

[Erik]

Ooohoooo!!! :revs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNzuI7LO5lE

[Leadfoot]

Isn't it a shame that Mercedes have to charge more than double that of either Audi or BMW to make a proper performance car. Lets face it, both the RS4 and M3 are there or there abouts half the price of the CLK Black Series and yet it's overall performance is only marginally better.

Who here thinks the 3 pointed star is worth that much more?:vhmmm:

[Rutkowsky]

My verdict, I take M6 and still have enough change to upgrade the brakes on it :hihi:

[Rutkowsky]

and how much does the AMG cost in the UK?

[artur777]

Isn't it a shame that Mercedes have to charge more than double that of either Audi or BMW to make a proper performance car. Lets face it, both the RS4 and M3 are there or there abouts half the price of the CLK Black Series and yet it's overall performance is only marginally better.

Who here thinks the 3 pointed star is worth that much more?:vhmmm:

Your opinion is very close to my own one.
Agree in full.:burnout:

[Ruergard]

I do like that C63, but the price is insane.

[Rutkowsky]

I do like that C63, but the price is insane.


+1 but M6 makes more sense here, better value to price

[AndyBG]

...Who here thinks the 3 pointed star is worth that much more?:vhmmm:

I don't know what's the case with Merc'... People are buying some status or appirance... I'm confused... In all other aspects Audi and BMW are very often much better...

[Ruergard]

+1 but M6 makes more sense here, better value to price

Can't deny that! But the C63 is the coolest car without a doubt.

[Rutkowsky]

Can't deny that! But the C63 is the coolest car without a doubt.


If only i had enough money to buy cars i fancy..! Still, my all time best car combo is new M3 and new RS6 (i just know it will be a good) :love:

[Z07]

M6 - 0.85g on the skid pad?? That's utter crap!

[Rutkowsky]

M6 - 0.85g on the skid pad?? That's utter crap!


That's actually surprised me too, CSL can do 1.47g if i remember correctly

[Speedou]

Something wrong there...

[Z07]

Something wrong there...

That's what I thought. Even a '60s Mustang can compete with that.:hihi:

I'd expect 0.95-1.0g.

[Rutkowsky]

0.85g, i think my high top van could pull that off :hihi:

[Rutkowsky]

it definately doesn't add up

[Leadfoot]

That's actually surprised me too, CSL can do 1.47g if i remember correctly

I agree that .85g is low but a CSL could pull 1.47g on a skip pad. No way.

[PeterJohn]

It's amazing how much better a car looks when the wheel arches are sculpted around the wheels. The Black Series looks awesome from every angle. Awesome price to go with it. :cry:

[Z07]

I agree that .85g is low but a CSL could pull 1.47g on a skip pad. No way.
1.47g does sound very high, even with sport tyres. 1.07 or 1.17 I'd be willing to believe. 1.47g usually requires a higher speed corner and some aerodynamic downforce.

[Rutkowsky]

I agree that .85g is low but a CSL could pull 1.47g on a skip pad. No way.

Leadie,

i was joking :hihi: just wanted others to join in to conversation. But topic of Skidpad, has interested me great deal, so much that i am going to search for results. Also, anyone who's got credible results, please post :cheers:

[Rutkowsky]

1.47g does sound very high, even with sport tyres. 1.07 or 1.17 I'd be willing to believe. 1.47g usually requires a higher speed corner and some aerodynamic downforce.

I am going to ask this question to someone who's got good knowledge of CSL, will post soon

[PeterJohn]

The McLaren F1 roadcar managed just 0.86g. At a time when the Citroën XM family car (with hydrolic suspension) managed 0.91.

It's well know that the M5/6 have trouble putting their power down. This only gets worse if you add lateral acceleration.

[Leadfoot]

If I remember right lateral grip figures are determined by speed in relation to the angle of the corner, so basically the high the G figure the more speed you are achieving in that corner.

At lower speeds usually the stiffer the suspension the harder the tyres are working, proved by the McLaren F1 vs XM results. Of course as speed increases other things come into play like aerodynamics etc.

[Z07]

If I remember right lateral grip figures are determined by speed in relation to the angle of the corner, so basically the high the G figure the more speed you are achieving in that corner.


Cornering g (or centripetal acceleration) = [(velocity^2) / (radius of circle)] / 9.80665

Using F/m = a from F=ma. It's basically the centripetal force (F) / mass (m)= [(mv^2)/r]/m = (v^2)/r = a

a/g = cornering g, or centripetal acceration expressed as a ratio of earth's gravitational acceleration, i.e. freefall.

v = velocity
r = radius of circle
m = mass
g = 9.80665m/s^2

So maintaining 45mph (20m/s) around a 40m radius circle is just over 1g.

[PeterJohn]

I'm not an engineer, but I think the power transmission also plays a role. You might not be accelerating at max G, but you are putting power through the wheels to maintain the speed. If the car has trouble putting the power down, it will also have trouble maintaining high lateral speeds.
The differential can play a role here. The tighter the turn, the bigger the speed difference between the wheels, the more "open" a diff will need to be. Perhaps the ///M diff is tuned for fast wide corners.

The suspension plays its roll with weight transfer (a result of G). The softer the suspension, the more weight will move to the outside wheels. The Citroën suspension has no springs or dampers, and instead connects all the wheels so they take each others load. In a corner, the inside wheel takes the load of the outside wheel, so you get a good distribution of forces that maximise the potential of the tyres. The hydrolic suspension of the Citroën can actually make the car lean into a corner like a motorcycle. But they don't tune it that way for comfort.

Centre of gravity will come into play as will, creating a lever effect, and increasing the amount of weight that is transferred to the outside wheels.

The problem with the McLaren was believed to be a bad compromise between comfort and speed. The LM version of the car managed a skidpad of 1.01g, IIRC.

[quattro Gmbh]

M6 is a GT. It is not healthy to compare a GT with the light-weight overpowered coupe.

I'm sure that new M3 CSL is going to crush this one.

[Z07]

I'm not an engineer, but I think the power transmission also plays a role. You might not be accelerating at max G, but you are putting power through the wheels to maintain the speed. If the car has trouble putting the power down, it will also have trouble maintaining high lateral speeds.
The differential can play a role here. The tighter the turn, the bigger the speed difference between the wheels, the more "open" a diff will need to be. Perhaps the ///M diff is tuned for fast wide corners.

I thought the M-diff was variable???

[Rutkowsky]

I thought the M-diff was variable???


yes it is

[Rutkowsky]

M6 is a GT. It is not healthy to compare a GT with the light-weight overpowered coupe.

I'm sure that new M3 CSL is going to crush this one.


And still retain useable rear seats