GTR posts 7:38 on the ring.

[Leadfoot]

I know we have all been expecting great things from the new GTR but clearly Nissan are following the rules of who should be quickest on the ring. It should read BMW CSL, then Lamborghini or Ferrari and finally finishing with some Porsche at the top. But Nissan has side stepped all of them and gone right to the top with a time of 7:38.:bow:

Here is the video (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uGe_fyhQazg) of the lap.

[Clio16V]

O well the CSL isn't dead ;)

Touring car driver Richard Göransson lapped the track in 7 minutes 22.9 seconds with the Loaded CSL.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=17133

[Leadfoot]

By what do you mean the word 'loaded'. ;)

Is this a stock CSL with all the options or does it really mean modifed to the hilt taking the power north of 450hp and every racing spec option available for the car.

You see one (GTR) is standard while the other (CSL) clearly isn't.

There an R8 from Audi which I bet will hammer the both of them.

http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/audi_r8_infineon_racing_car.thumbnail.jpg

See my point.:hihi:

[Ruergard]

And the best thing Leadie, there's a Diesel Audi that will hammer them? :hihi:

Amazing time, Nissan has done it. No doubt!

[rs-mad]

Leadie - I have read that the best time was in-fact 7:37 and that the track had numerous damp section's. Nissan have said they feel a 7:30 is their target and that is with the standard GTR.

There is talk of a Clun spec GTR ala CSL that will weight 200-300kg less and pack 520hp.

It is a sad day for europe when Godzilla is let out to play

[Benman]

Holy crap! Did you guys notice his time through the Carousel?!? He was never below 100kph!?!?! That is insane!

Having had the opportunity to experience the Nordschleife on several occasion as both driver and passenger (even several time as a passenger of veteran racecar pilot Wolfgang Kaufmann), owning a car that can take it in less than 7min40sec would be just surreal. Owning the same car for less than $80K is even more unthinkable! Even the Race spec M3 GTR I got to ride in (Gote knows who I'm talking about) would be hard pressed to beat that time by much (impossible for me to know it's time since they ran both Northern Loop and GP circuit).

All the talk of "cheap" plasiticy interiors... so what, that is one hell of a car! I couldn't imagine that as a daily driver, but the incredible part is according to all the early mag tests, it is a pussy cat when you want it to be! Just amazing... Well Done Nissan!:cheers: :dig:

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Leadie - I have read that the best time was in-fact 7:37 and that the track had numerous damp section's. Nissan have said they feel a 7:30 is their target and that is with the standard GTR.

There is talk of a Clun spec GTR ala CSL that will weight 200-300kg less and pack 520hp.

It is a sad day for europe when Godzilla is let out to play

Wrong, it's an exciting day as we can all demand and hopefully be listened to when we say to the other makes, Audi included that you must do better. :thumb:

[RXBG]

speaking strictly of numbers and frank everyday livability it is a great car.

regarding luxury and frank design, that is a whole other.

can't wait to see what the V10 R8 can do. though, with 500 hp, it would sorely need a DSG to match those kinds of GTR numbers.

[Leadfoot]

I doubt on a track like the ring even the v10 R8 would stand much of a chance against the GTR, maybe on a slower track it might but I still doubt it. This thing is moving the game forward as much as the first GTR did.

P.S.

I heard a wee humour that the R8 is to recieve a new V10Tdi and the engine is also destined for the A8 and possibly Bentleys too.

[RXBG]

I doubt on a track like the ring even the v10 R8 would stand much of a chance against the GTR, maybe on a slower track it might but I still doubt it. This thing is moving the game forward as much as the first GTR did.

P.S.

I heard a wee humour that the R8 is to recieve a new V10Tdi and the engine is also destined for the A8 and possibly Bentleys too.

hate to say it. but i doubt anything with a turbo will ever go into the R8. you just can't cool it without modifying the engine cover a la lambo in order to cool it well enough.

i do think that the V10 R8 could get close to the GTR. but it will weigh more. and it will not have a DSG. if they lighten the R8 with CF panels and such it could match it.

but i am ok with the GTR performing better than my upcoming baby. i'd rather lose a race in an R8 than win in a GTR. but that's just me :R8:

[ott]

This time was achieved using cut slicks. According to designer, Mr. Mizuno, stock car will lap comfortably around 7.55-7.58, which is still very impressive IMO.

[BroddvonBronto]

This time was achieved using cut slicks. According to designer, Mr. Mizuno, stock car will lap comfortably around 7.55-7.58, which is still very impressive IMO.

haha so it was a little bit of cheating then ;)

[rs-mad]

OTT - Can you confirm this officially?

[RXBG]

OTT - Can you confirm this officially?

hey yeah. sneaky of nissan if this is the case. it is all over the airwaves that this is what the car can do. but they should note that it is not on street tires.

if in fact it is true then it is not much faster than the V8 R8.

i'd like to know officially as well. for the sake of conversation with future nissan enthusiasts.

[ott]

HONED AT THE 'RING

GTR chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno told PistonHeads that his baby had covered over 3000 miles at the Nordschleife and avoided other circuits as they were deemed 'too easy'.

Nissan's original target was to beat the 911 Turbo at the 'ring but they ended up worrying the Porsche Carrera GT.

They didn't beat the GT's 7min 32sec lap time, but got a 7.38 in semi-wet conditions.

'We used cut slick tyres' said Mizuno.

'I was not interested in full slick times as this bears no resemblance to a road tyre. 1.2G of force was being pulled in wet and over 2 in dry'.



Full interview is here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=17066

Can't remember where exactly was information about 7.55-7.58 times, but it was the same guy saying, that most of the test drivers run those laptimes with completely stock GT-R.

[RXBG]

thanks ott. that clarifies a lot. doesn't take much away from the fact that the car is still a great performer. but it does make it more realistic.

[chewym]

This time was achieved using cut slicks. According to designer, Mr. Mizuno, stock car will lap comfortably around 7.55-7.58, which is still very impressive IMO.

Can't wait to see several magazines in a row run the ring in a production GT-R and not get 7:38. 20 second difference sounds pretty big, but then again the RS4 had a 10 second difference or so with almost race tires and a professional driver vs. normal tires and a normal driver.

[Mr Balsen]

I heard a wee humour that the R8 is to recieve a new V10Tdi and the engine is also destined for the A8 and possibly Bentleys too.

Impossible at the moment. The V10tdi is too wide (including intercoolers) to fit in the R8 chassis. And the heat is a much bigger problem on the V12TDI than it is on the V10...

Regards from Paris,
Frederic

[ott]

Found other quote of Mr. Mizuno regards laptimes:


Earlier, Mizuno-san had offered some lap times from the Nordschliefe for various cars driven by the German magazine SportAuto. Those times are driver-dependent, track-knowledge-dependent, weather-, traffic- and bunny-crossing-the-track dependent. But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58. So he suggested the GT-R’s strong suit was that it offered “the best cost per lap time.” For whatever that’s worth.


Read also full article, some interesting comparison with 997 TT


After “much spirited driving,” we can say the Turbo had a good deal more lag and more dive and squat than the GT-R. But once the Porsche got spooled up, achtung, baby. It felt lighter and the steering felt quicker, too. The biggest difference between the two was that the Turbo demanded more of its driver while the GT-R was easier to handle, flatter and more stable.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071017/FREE/71017001/1065

[Z07]

Zonda F vs GTR @Nurburgring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z9v_TpP7ds

Play full screen (button at bottom left).

[Z07]

O well the CSL isn't dead ;)

Touring car driver Richard Göransson lapped the track in 7 minutes 22.9 seconds with the Loaded CSL.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=17133
Explain how they beat the Zonda F's record when the Zonda's record was for a production car?

You'll find that a Blitz modified Supra ran 7:21 about a decade ago and an Edo 911 has made 7:15 since then.

I mean, why not compare the Mines R34 GTR to a stock M3 CSL?:hihi:

[Z07]

Full interview is here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=17066

Can't remember where exactly was information about 7.55-7.58 times, but it was the same guy saying, that most of the test drivers run those laptimes with completely stock GT-R.
All cars testing on the 'ring use either cut-slicks or sport tyres. You think all the other times were set with standard factory tyres?:hihi:

[Leadfoot]

What this video comparison proves is how much quicker the Zonda is in acceleration and how much better the GTR is on the brakes and in the corner. In fact I have more respect for the Nissan than ever before.

[Clio16V]

All cars testing on the 'ring use either cut-slicks or sport tyres. You think all the other times were set with standard factory tyres?:hihi:

A lot of peolpe say about the CSL, that it is so fast because of the Cup tires.

In the Supertest it did 7:50s with Cup tires, it was compared with the 911(996?) GT3 from that time. The GT3 did it in 7:54 with regular sport tires.

Later the GT3 was also tested on Cup tires and did in 7:48s. A difference of 6s.

Maybe this puts in perspective of how good the CSL is with only 360HP in the year2003.

[Clio16V]

Zonda F vs GTR @Nurburgring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z9v_TpP7ds

Play full screen (button at bottom left).

Nice video :thumb:

[rs-mad]

Who care's LOL

Just kidding I have an always be a GTR lover and the new one is no different in keeping the big euro guys on their toes.

It would be great to see a battle between 911 GT2 (997), Nissan GTR, M3 CSL and a super car to keep them in perspective running cut slicks around the ring for comparison.

Till then long live the GTR

RS-MAD

[Clio16V]

Guys,

I'm sertainly not telling one is better then the other, just love al of those cars :)

The NSX-R to!

[Z07]

After “much spirited driving,” we can say the Turbo had a good deal more lag and more dive and squat than the GT-R.

I'm surprised by that. Given that the 911 delivers peak torque from 1950rpm, I'd have thought it'd be quicker on the spool.

[Z07]

Just to clear things up:

Article Comments - 2009 Nissan GT-R First Look - CarSpace Automotive Forums (http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f165732)


There's been some confusion over the tires used on the GT-R during its 7:38 lap of the Nurburgring. Various sources have reported that cut slicks were used. This is incorrect, and stems from a language barrier at a press conference during the GT-R's debut at the Tokyo Motor Show.

Senior GT-R development engineering staff on hand at the 'ring trip I attended confirmed that production-specification (including the tread compound) Bridestone RE070 tires were used on the 7:38 lap.

The three pre-production cars Nissan had on hand during the final Nurburgring trip were production-intent configuration. The strongest car of the three (within production variation) was selected to run the lap, with no "hotting up" done to fudge the result.

[ott]

language barrier at a press conference during the GT-R's debut at the Tokyo Motor Show

nice try, but


Fifth Gear presenter and PistonHeads writer Jonny Smith was one of the few people to be flown to Japan 24-hours before the Tokyo motor-show and given a secret tour of the new car, even before the Japanese media...

and make up your mind...


All cars testing on the 'ring use either cut-slicks or sport tyres. You think all the other times were set with standard factory tyres?:hihi:


production-specification (including the tread compound) Bridestone RE070 tires were used

[Leadfoot]

Who gives a monkeys if there a misunderstand or not, if they use proper road tyres or not, we will all know soon enough when some of the magazines finally get their hands on it.

[Z07]

nice try, but



and make up your mind...
Do you have a speech recording of the interview?

People have seen plenty of pictures of the car being tested. There are none featuring cut slicks so I’m sure they can make up your own mind.

Many manufacturers do use cut slicks but most use soft compound sport tyres.

[7:53 RS6]

Exclusively developed nitrogen-filled Bridgestoner RE070A high-capacity run-flat summer tires, 255/40R20 front and 285/35R20 rear. I see no strange in this lap been done on R-cpmpond tires developed for the stock car.

There are fast driver out there and they make a diffrence in the end, this guy drive fast.

Just see old this old video Gan-san från Best Motoring, its on 7.56min full Sport Auto lap, I am sure Horst would not go this fast in the same car.

lapping a old NSX-R, its a fast lap for this car i would say, was it on slicks due to that, no -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7X8blHFfoM



I will say this is the tiers used, and its stock on the car GT-R.
Until i see prof of any other tiers used this is the one, developed for the car.

Its Nissan we talk about here guys, it quite a big manufactor of cars. And even they have a marketing department, and I am sure those guys would know that if they was on other than stock tiers, well the hole thing will get more badwill than ever, fales marketing. I am sure they are smarter than that.

Still today there are peopel that belive the CSL horst drove was like special, like not stock, well that clearly shows those dont have a clu about the CSL and its stock potential

In the end its so much talk on internet anyway, who knows whats tru or not.

Thats why one should not live the life after whats said on internet or whats seen on TV:applause:

In the end i might bee wrong, but not untill i see prof of that cut slicks was used, well then I belive it. Many times have also the Michelin Cup tiers been called cut slicks...in mags etc, etc...or well that cup tier are more like a cut slicks, etc, etc. Well its not a cut slicks, the cup tiers are a road legal street tiers, cut slicks are not!.

[Benman]

Simply amazing... only @11 seconds seperate the Zonda from the GT-R, just incredible.

But then, one could say the GT-R is not a "true" driver's car.:hahahehe: :applause:

Ben

[7:53 RS6]

Holy crap! Did you guys notice his time through the Carousel?!? He was never below 100kph!?!?! That is insane!

Having had the opportunity to experience the Nordschleife on several occasion as both driver and passenger (even several time as a passenger of veteran racecar pilot Wolfgang Kaufmann), owning a car that can take it in less than 7min40sec would be just surreal. Owning the same car for less than $80K is even more unthinkable! Even the Race spec M3 GTR I got to ride in (Gote knows who I'm talking about) would be hard pressed to beat that time by much (impossible for me to know it's time since they ran both Northern Loop and GP circuit).

All the talk of "cheap" plasiticy interiors... so what, that is one hell of a car! I couldn't imagine that as a daily driver, but the incredible part is according to all the early mag tests, it is a pussy cat when you want it to be! Just amazing... Well Done Nissan!:cheers: :dig:

Ben:addict:

Sure I am whit you on this, one impressive laptime from a stock factory car this 7.38
And in USA its for free, hardly no money i guess?

As a ref lap well we got my frinds Loaded CSL at 7.22.9min as well a friends race car wich drove at the same day Loaded did this time. Well the E90 slicks shod race car did the same lap as Loaded as well the same lap the Nissand did, well E90 VLN race car did it in 7.08min.

This car is doing the compleate VLN strech in ap 8.45min. Compared to Hans Joackim Stuck in the Shubert Motors Z4M Coupe wich do the whole VLN lap in 8.28.

By the way the guy that did drive 7.22 whit Loaded CSL is also driving the Shubert Z4M toghether whit Senior and Junior Stuck and Claudia Hurtgren.He is equal as fast as Stuck in the Z4M around the ring.

[Leadfoot]

Still today there are peopel that belive the CSL horst drove was like special, like not stock, well that clearly shows those dont have a clu about the CSL and its stock potential

I don't know if that statement was directed at me but I suppose I have always doubted how the CSL could drop 30 seconds from the car it was closely based on. I will accept that there is a lot about the CSL that I don't know so that maybe why I have always had this little bit of doubt sitting at the back of my mind.

You own one and know best, if you say it will then I will brow to you better judgement. :cheers:

[Speedou]

Well the fact is that 7:53 RS6 isn't anymore that much behind the sport auto time, so it very easy to believe.

[7:53 RS6]

In the end I am just a hobbydriver, but whit the driftbox one learn much in the end. And yes, I know to 100% that the CSL horst drove was stock on cups, just as mine is.
Its easy to see from a logg which speeds one keep on the difrent sections on the ring.

Horst is at 236 GPS km at section Fuchsrörhe, I am doing 243 GPS km on the exakt same section:hahahehe: I gain higher speed here and the only reason is i dare to hold my foot down longer on the gaspedal. I am in a stock CSL as well.

Horst Vmax at Schwedenkreuz is 245 GPS km, mine is 244 GPS km.

Horst is at 222 GPS km as Vmax in Kesselchen, I am at ap 217-220 GPS km.

Horst is at Anfhart Schwalbenschwanz at 211 GPS km as a Vmax, I am at 209-211 GPS km as Vmax same section.

Horst is at Hatzenbachbogen at 152 GPS km, I am at 164 GPS km as a Vmax same section..

And it go on, i got every sections logged together whit plenty of film, in the end I am keeping the same more or less laptimes, well not to strange as we are almost same in GPS speed all around the track as well. What i dont got is one total free lap, but that Horst got, and thats when you can carry speed around all the track. And belive me, if to over take a car on the 5, highspeed sections on the ring. Well if you nead to overtake 1 singel car at every one of the 5, speedy sections, wich all is 200+ GPS km sections, your Vmax at these sections is slower compared to if these sections are totaly free. Its one the 5, 200+ GPS km sections one cut seconds from a lap, sure its the whole package, but if fast on the fast sections well you for sure cut seconds from the laptime.

In the end its very hard to drive fast on the puplicdays as we do, as well now and then on the trackday there. As it bloody traffick, at times its not even fun. So if one get free track, well easy to go fast then if you got the speed whit in you that is.
And of course i got plenty of loggs to prove above. Anybody that wants to learn the ring could download the driftbox softwear and i could mail loggs, or they can be downloaded from public places where we have them upploaded.

As well its will be intressting to see Loadeds logg at 7.22.9min on the sport auto lap. As i been a passanger on laps in Loaded i know the 650hp comes at handy on all the 5, 200+ GPS km sections on the ring. In corners one dont gain that much from 650hp vs stock 360hp :hahahehe: but on the fast sections its somthing else:revs:

[Speedou]

That is true, but you have to admit that you have little bit more trust on brakes. than Horst with all standard brakes.

[Leadfoot]

One thing I will say about the difference in times between the manufacturers unofficial time and the one that Horst officially get is that though he does know the track like the back of his hand, the same can't be said about the car. This might explain why in some cases the difference between to two are unusual large, there is some cars which when you step into feel like an old friend and other which are like a total stranger.

Anyway that my theory. :brag:

[Z07]

That is true, but you have to admit that you have little bit more trust on brakes. than Horst with all standard brakes.
Then there's the downforce package and the lighter weight of the car. Considering that the 'ring consists mainly of 70+mph bends, this will make a huge difference to cornering speed.

[7:53 RS6]

Then there's the downforce package and the lighter weight of the car. Considering that the 'ring consists mainly of 70+mph bends, this will make a huge difference to cornering speed.

Well my car is a stock CSL the same weight(kg) and downforce package as the one Horst drove. I got a factory stock CSL!

You might confuse me or my car whit Loaded CSL, well thats lighter(stripped out) and got huge wings as well front splitter, carbonfiber doors, KW chassi, plastick window, , 295 rear tiers, and a komressor 650hp, AP brakes, PFC rotors etc, etc.

[7:53 RS6]

That is true, but you have to admit that you have little bit more trust on brakes. than Horst with all standard brakes.

Its hard for me to say what confidence Horst feel for the brakes. But i guess he have no probelem whit the stock pads, he is a very god driver.
No one will differ a laptime around the ring due to a slightly diffrent pad compound, it will not go faster vs slower due to only a diffrent pad compound.

The stock pad brake very god, still the feel and bite is very diffrent vs PFC01.
In the end its a personal as well cost related thing, stock pads do wear out fast vs PFC. Many peopel think PFC01 bite to initaly hard, therfor they are not keen on it. I love that pad, but i will go the same laptime around the ring on a stock pad.

But stock pads i dont like, they are spungy and soft when braking them...still they deliver brakingpower very well. It could be seen in loggs.

We tested stock pads on my stock CSL on slicks.....no fade..low laptimes...stilll the feeling is not so nice vs PFC, as well the wear, stock pads do wear fast.

[Speedou]

Ok, good information, thanks!

[Z07]

Well my car is a stock CSL the same weight(kg) and downforce package as the one Horst drove. I got a factory stock CSL!

You might confuse me or my car whit Loaded CSL, well thats lighter(stripped out) and got huge wings as well front splitter, carbonfiber doors, KW chassi, plastick window, , 295 rear tiers, and a komressor 650hp, AP brakes, PFC rotors etc, etc.
Yeah, sorry. I thought we were talking about the supercharged CSL that did the 7:22 lap.:confused:

[Phage]

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/3/0826dd3fe86b0d86f9c4ea29c33dc8a3.jpg