BMW M3 vs C63AMG vs RS4 - Objective Opinion Comparison

[Vorsprung]

I think this comparison of these 3 cars sums it up perfectly, and really does reiterate what a great car the Audi RS4 is.

http://www.cartoday.com/content/blog/singlepage.asp?id=130

[Rstr]

bmw boys probably going crazy. M3 is getting super great reviews.

[Vorsprung]

You must be reading a different review to me, because the one I read ranks the RS4 as no.1.
And i know for a fact that the magazine test he refers to in his comparison, has the RS4 as the outright winner and it was quicker than the M3.

[Fab]

I agree very objective and fair review. There isn't much to argue against it.

And the outcome is that the RS is the best car :rs4kiss:

[Erik]

"With that said, I personally think you will find that when RS4 production stops around January, it will have been unmatched during its life-cycle and retire as a champion. And that’s not only an upset of a victory for Audi, but also a victory for common sense and logic over sideways hedonism… And in my mind it simply reaffirms the RS4 as one of the greatest cars of its era. But that’s just me…"

[Leadfoot]

It's interesting to find some recent reviews finding similar opinions to the ones we have be saying for years about the difference between awd vs rwd and namely Audi's Quattro vs BMW's rwd chassis, this one basically states that on the track in the hands of a very skilled driver the M3 is the quicker of the two, something I would agree with but with anyone other than this the RS4 will be the easier to push closer to the limit and be the quicker because of this.

I also read yesterday in EVO that the guy running the RS4 has now changed to the M3 for a couple of months and also agrees with my findings that the two car behave remarkable similarly, especially when you consider that one is awd and the other rwd. Clearly BMW did examine the RS4 very closely when doing final development on the M3, a very wise move as it now leaves the way clear for the CSL to be that more extreme M car the die-hards wanted from the start.

P.S.

What is Mercedes up to, producing the hardest riding car of the three.:vhmmm: Very un-Mercedes of them.

[HKS786]

Yep I agree Leadie.

Good point about the CSL, nearly everyone has been suggesting it. However, I wonder what the price will be!? Also, lets not forget that when the RS5 in on the scene it will kill the M3. I think if it kills the M3 and is cheaper than the CSL there wont be much point buying the CSL unless you are an enthusiast.

Who knows what Audi are up to though? They could easily be considering the CSL when making the RS5 or have thoughts about an RS5+. I guess time will tell though ;) Also, the next RS4 will be underway and one can only imagine what it'll do to the E90 M3 and C63!

[Leadfoot]

HKS768,

I already have a deposit down on the RS5 when it is finally shows to face, but I am still undecided and frankly don't really care as to what the power unit will be, my heart says it will be turboed, that lovely rich torque pushing the car forward regardless of gear but my head says not, reason being that either a increase in bore and VL will give the desired increase of power require to match the performance of the C63 while keeping it performance in touch with the much talked about CSL. Remember this time round the RS5 will have Torque Vectoring Quattro and the latest DRC system so chances are handling wise it will be right up there with the CSL.

I believe the CSL will be no dearer than the last model, £60K is still a lot of money to pay for a 3series BMW regardless of how good it is, anything more will result in a similar sales performance that the last model had with huge discounts needing to be offered to sell the remaining back log.

[OzRS4]

HKS768,

I already have a deposit down on the RS5 when it is finally shows to face, but I am still undecided and frankly don't really care as to what the power unit will be, my heart says it will be turboed, that lovely rich torque pushing the car forward regardless of gear but my head says not, reason being that either a increase in bore and VL will give the desired increase of power require to match the performance of the C63 while keeping it performance in touch with the much talked about CSL. Remember this time round the RS5 will have Torque Vectoring Quattro and the latest DRC system so chances are handling wise it will be right up there with the CSL.

I believe the CSL will be no dearer than the last model, £60K is still a lot of money to pay for a 3series BMW regardless of how good it is, anything more will result in a similar sales performance that the last model had with huge discounts needing to be offered to sell the remaining back log.

Interesting news to know that the marketing dude for Audi at the Sydney motor show said that the future RS5 and RS4 will have turbo engine again. Audi is toying with the other competitors. First they make normal aspirated V8 for a medium sized car, then BMW,Mercedes and now Lexus follows. I'm quite certain Audi will lead the pack again with the new RS cars. :applause:

[RussianM3_dude]

No, Mercedes was first with the C43 AMG.

[HKS786]

Interesting news to know that the marketing dude for Audi at the Sydney motor show said that the future RS5 and RS4 will have turbo engine again. Audi is toying with the other competitors. First they make normal aspirated V8 for a medium sized car, then BMW,Mercedes and now Lexus follows. I'm quite certain Audi will lead the pack again with the new RS cars. :applause:

wow did he say that? where did you find that info from?

[Speedou]

Well it was clear to me long time a go that next M3 will have a V8 because power war is on and straight six couldn't give enough power anymore. And BMW wasn't making turbo engine for M-car...RS4 just came out earlier.

[RussianM3_dude]

Not to mention there already was a V8 M3. Limited edition... still street legal.

[Leadfoot]

Not to mention there already was a V8 M3. Limited edition... still street legal.

The words 'limited edition' usually applies to a number which signifies a production run, I hardly count 10 road going units as a production run, do you. ;)

[RussianM3_dude]

Reventon only has 20 and is called a new model.

[Leadfoot]

M3-Dude,

I don't wanting to get into an argument over this, I was only hi-lighting the fact that the M3 GTR wasn't really a new model of M3 for production.

With regards to the Lamborghini Reventon, I don't think anyone here could look at both examples and see any similarities other than the low numbers involved, lets face it one is a concept one-off of a lower volume supercar anyway which has only been produced to meet the demand of the filthy rich while the other was only produced to meet certain racing regulations.

[raulg]

I still can't believe the RS4 holds so good against the new M3. It's a wonder considering the RS4 is more than 2 years old (at least in Europe if not here) and that the new M3 was built to match/kill the Audi car. And how come we see the numbers for RS4 even better sometimes than those for the new M3, since both have 420hp but one loses 10% MORE than the other due to the quattro system. And I saw a few numbers already (not 0-60 only where M3 may loose traction) where the Audi is right there.

Leadfoot: any news about the RS5 production/release time? did you get a random date when u placed that deposit? I was thinking about puting a deposit down, but for the next RS4 (B8).

[Leadfoot]

I still can't believe the RS4 holds so good against the new M3. It's a wonder considering the RS4 is more than 2 years old (at least in Europe if not here) and that the new M3 was built to match/kill the Audi car. And how come we see the numbers for RS4 even better sometimes than those for the new M3, since both have 420hp but one loses 10% MORE than the other due to the quattro system. And I saw a few numbers already (not 0-60 only where M3 may loose traction) where the Audi is right there.

Leadfoot: any news about the RS5 production/release time? did you get a random date when u placed that deposit? I was thinking about puting a deposit down, but for the next RS4 (B8).

I am not surprised that the RS4 holds on the M3 in acceleration, as the myth of extra transmission lose is just that, a myth. The surprise is that it holds on right the way up to the limiter, because the RS4 weighs an extra 150kgs over the M3. We keep talking about the RS4 being two years older than the M3 but the real facts are it's design is closer to six years older as little changed with the face-lift which proves that DRC is an amazing system which armed the RS4 with the kind of body control one wouldn't think possible after driving a S4. But in fairness to the M3 most comparison tests have been conducted with M3s equipped with 19" alloys which every BMW owner knows hinder the balance of both the car and it's steering but nimbleness as well.

You are quite right that for all BMW's know how they haven't moved the game on in the way one was expecting and this I believe is the reason for it's bad press, most reviewers were expecting the norm which was the M3 blowing away the competition. The problem is the competition has decided to up it's game in the process, seeing that there is huge profits there for the taking, 80,000 M3s were sold in it's last form compared to 5,000 RS4 and about 12,000 C55, clearly it's rivals were missing out.

Now that explains why the M3 is any better let me address your question on the RS5 and RS4.:confused: I have nothing confirmed from the dealer, I have only been told else where that chances are the RS5 will show early 2009 with the RS4 appearing shortly there after.

[raulg]

I am not surprised that the RS4 holds on the M3 in acceleration, as the myth of extra transmission lose is just that, a myth. The surprise is that it holds on right the way up to the limiter, because the RS4 weighs an extra 150kgs over the M3. We keep talking about the RS4 being two years older than the M3 but the real facts are it's design is closer to six years older as little changed with the face-lift which proves that DRC is an amazing system which armed the RS4 with the kind of body control one wouldn't think possible after driving a S4. But in fairness to the M3 most comparison tests have been conducted with M3s equipped with 19" alloys which every BMW owner knows hinder the balance of both the car and it's steering but nimbleness as well.

You are quite right that for all BMW's know how they haven't moved the game on in the way one was expecting and this I believe is the reason for it's bad press, most reviewers were expecting the norm which was the M3 blowing away the competition. The problem is the competition has decided to up it's game in the process, seeing that there is huge profits there for the taking, 80,000 M3s were sold in it's last form compared to 5,000 RS4 and about 12,000 C55, clearly it's rivals were missing out.

Now that explains why the M3 is any better let me address your question on the RS5 and RS4.:confused: I have nothing confirmed from the dealer, I have only been told else where that chances are the RS5 will show early 2009 with the RS4 appearing shortly there after.


The extra weight on the RS4 is only in US. I am not sure why, probably safety issues, US being more restrictive (we also do no get the nice EU steering wheel). I have read plenty of reviews on the RS4 done by European magazines, they all put the RS4 at about the same weight as the new M3. Also, the EU Audi website states 1650KG=3630lbs for the sedan RS4 (unladen weight=that is with fuel & all needed liquids). But, the best point is when every single test said EU RS4 is just a few Kg (about 30) lighter than the new M3.

I am not sure I wanna wait until mid 2009 for an RS4. I hate this delay, I mean we get the A4 B8 this spring, but the RS4 1-2 years later. I also do not want to pick the B7 RS4, since starting next year that will look like previous model. Nothing wrong with that in a way, car is still GREAT, but on the look alone I will feel I am paying lots of $ for something older. If the RS5 shows up sometimes next year I might go with it. Altough I am hooked on sedans not coupes, the new S5 looks astonishing.

If Audi sees this: move your but and start producing the damn RS4 B8 NOW ! What's wrong with you? I hate getting an RS4 for end of production/life cycle of a model. Start building the cars at one, A4, S4, RS4. So I can choose!

:rs4kiss:
Yeah, I know, I am crazy thinking Audi will even see this, but about listening to my concerns. Bih !

[Speedou]

M3 is lighter, there is different how they weight the car in Audi and BMW.

[raulg]

M3 is lighter, there is different how they weight the car in Audi and BMW.

That is what you think, it's and old thing going on about this story. Nobody was ever able to come with that info, just with their opinion. Give me some links, so I can read it down, please. I can provide plenty of links with what I said.

In EU they both use UNLADEN WEIGHT. Also, they clearly said the RS4 is just as heavy as the new M3 in more than 3 different magazine, in which they tested both cars. So unless you have something concise, I would say you are just misinformed. Or Audi & the car mags have no ideea how to weight down a car. I don't mind being wrong, but I need something for real to change what I read until now.

[Leadfoot]

That is what you think, it's and old thing going on about this story. Nobody was ever able to come with that info, just with their opinion. Give me some links, so I can read it down, please. I can provide plenty of links with what I said.

In EU they both use UNLADEN WEIGHT. Also, they clearly said the RS4 is just as heavy as the new M3 in more than 3 different magazine, in which they tested both cars. So unless you have something concise, I would say you are just misinformed. Or Audi & the car mags have no ideea how to weight down a car. I don't mind being wrong, but I need something for real to change what I read until now.

What speedou is telling you about the BMW and Audi unladen weight differences is correct, I have seen numerous Audis weighing much more than their quoted weights where as the new M3 has on more than one occasion weighed less than quoted. There is no real difference between US and EU versions, they both have the same amount of safety equipment.

Most mags I have read quote the RS4 at 1720~40Kgs while the M3 usually weighs around the 1615~25Kgs. In any case the facts are that the RS4 is every bit as quick in acceleration as the M3 proving that transmission lose is a myth, plain and simple.

[raulg]

What speedou is telling you about the BMW and Audi unladen weight differences is correct, I have seen numerous Audis weighing much more than their quoted weights where as the new M3 has on more than one occasion weighed less than quoted. There is no real difference between US and EU versions, they both have the same amount of safety equipment.

Most mags I have read quote the RS4 at 1720~40Kgs while the M3 usually weighs around the 1615~25Kgs. In any case the facts are that the RS4 is every bit as quick in acceleration as the M3 proving that transmission lose is a myth, plain and simple.

First, definitions:
Curb weight. Unladen weight, ie empty vehicle plus full fuel plus 75 kg driver.
Unladen. Vehicle carrying fuel, driver but no payload or other load.

Both Audi and BMW put their weight as unladen.

African magazine, "Cars in Action", M3 vs RS4 full road and track test:
RS4-Base Mass=1650kg
M3- Base Mass=1655Kg.
Link HERE (http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84657).

EU, UK magazine, "Car Magazine", RS4 cabrio vs M3 coupe:
RS4 cabrio=1845kg
RS4=1655gg
M3=1655kg
Link HERE (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/first_drive.php?sid=849&page=2).

Audi EU:
Leergew./Zuladung (kg)=1650/2260
-the second figure is for total vehicle weight including ALL passengers and bagages.
Link HERE. (http://www.audi.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/product/a4/pdf.Par.0007.File.pdf)

I know I saw another few comparisons, saying the same THING in Europe. Also plenty EU magazines doing the road test on RS4 will say the same about it's weight, but I know all US magazines will write down a porcky weight close to 4000 lbs=1800Kg for the (Sedan) RS4.

Indeed, afterall, it doesn't matter, what counts is real street & track performance of that car, and the RS4 is no loser compared to the M3.

[Leadfoot]

raulg,

I am not disagreeing with you that both are quoting unladen weight, I am only telling you that when the actual vechiles are tested on a weigh bridge to Audi does weigh a lot more than the official figures.