What will the performance of the RS6 really be?

[Leadfoot]

This is the question of on the lips of not only all of us but every M5/6 and E63 owner, including their respective manufacturers.

The best gauge for this answer is the new Bentley Continental GT Speed. It has 600hp, the true figure of the RS6 but has 70ft/lbs of torque more but not over such a wide range and weighs over 300kgs more. It's using a similar gearbox and quattro system so if it's performance is good then surely the RS6 will be even better.

So what about this new Bentley, well it's able to get to 100km/h in only 4.3s and the 160km/h in less than 10s with a top speed of 320km/h (200mph). Based on these figures I don't think it would be unreasonable to think that the RS6 could beat the 100km/h time by 0.2s (4.1s) and the 160km/h by 0.6s (9.2~9.4s) as it's true time isn't quoted only that it's achieved in less than 10s.

As for the RS6's true top speed, well I wouldn't be surprised to see it capable of matching the official speed of the Bentley, but as we all know even the standard one is capable of a true 208mph I reckon the big Audi could better the double ton too.;)

[HKS786]

Very interesting number Leadie, and you know something? It's quite convincing and plausible when we look at the Bentley. Also, we know that the RS6 wont only be fast in a straightline, it'll have a a great laptime to match ;)

[Leadfoot]

Very interesting number Leadie, and you know something? It's quite convincing and plausible when we look at the Bentley. Also, we know that the RS6 wont only be fast in a straightline, it'll have a a great laptime to match ;)

Yes, we do. ;)

[Leadfoot]

I believe the figures are correct and this is no doubt why BMW are developing and currently testing the M5 with turbos.

[HKS786]

I believe the figures are correct and this is no doubt why BMW are developing and currently testing the M5 with turbos.

I havent seen anything nearly official about this M5. You had any word about what it's running? I do know that we've seen spyshots of it but some people are already saying it'll be 580bhp, but last time I checked we didnt have any half-concrete info :confused:

[Benman]

I'll take a guess...

0-60mph: 4.2 sec
0-100mph: 9.6 sec

But we'll all know soon enough. ;)

Ben:addict:

[AuditudeA642]

I'll take a guess...

0-60mph: 4.2 sec
0-100mph: 9.6 sec

But we'll all know soon enough. ;)

Ben:addict:

A little better than that i think. An RS4 is capable of 0-60 in 4.2 sec and 0-100 in 10-10.2 so the RS6 is say will be able to do

0-60mph: 3.9 Sec (Yes it will break into the 3's)
0-100mph:9 Flat

[HKS786]

A little better than that i think. An RS4 is capable of 0-60 in 4.2 sec and 0-100 in 10-10.2 so the RS6 is say will be able to do

0-60mph: 3.9 Sec (Yes it will break into the 3's)
0-100mph:9 Flat

I'm not 100% sure but I did hear that it should be able to hit 3.9 secs ;)

[RussianM3_dude]

I believe the figures are correct and this is no doubt why BMW are developing and currently testing the M5 with turbos.

I wouldn't be so sure. BMW might just be testing a 5.5 liter V10 or V12. RS6 would loose power to quattro and the automatic transmission, so 550hp will be enough to keep up with it or even get ahead.

[Leadfoot]

I wouldn't be so sure. BMW might just be testing a 5.5 liter V10 or V12. RS6 would loose power to quattro and the automatic transmission, so 550hp will be enough to keep up with it or even get ahead.

Trust me, I am pretty sure that they are testing a turbo version of the M5.;) Whether it actually goes in to production isn't sure but they are testing it.

[HKS786]

I wouldn't be so sure. BMW might just be testing a 5.5 liter V10 or V12. RS6 would loose power to quattro and the automatic transmission, so 550hp will be enough to keep up with it or even get ahead.

I cant see it being a V12 and I dont think they would increase the engine size. I think they are going for forced induction, and Leadie says good sources confirm it.

[Bingocaller]

I must say that it would be amazing if it breaks the 4 sec margin - 3.9 would be soo cool!

Dont know about the M5 - yes we have seen the spyshots and it would be inline with the turbo technology behind the 335i and the 535i but I dont think that BWM would launch it. I think we will most likely see a lighter M5 ala CSL with a small increase in HP but still from the NA V10.

[KresoF1]

Leadie,
RS6 Avant will be fast but, not as fast as you think. And any number below 4.5s for 0-100km/h is simply wishfull thinking... RS6 Avant will(unlike R8) match its factory numbers or prove to be just marginally faster...

I spoke yesterday with my friend who is car journalist(he works for Motorpresse-AMS and Sport Auto) and according to his info RS6 Avant biggest problem is weight. Fully specd(without Ceramics) it will wieght more then 2050kg's!!

[Bingocaller]

Well maybe I will stand corrected....

http://bimmerpages.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6683&postcount=1

[Leadfoot]

Leadie,
RS6 Avant will be fast but, not as fast as you think. And any number below 4.5s for 0-100km/h is simply wishfull thinking... RS6 Avant will(unlike R8) match its factory numbers or prove to be just marginally faster...

I spoke yesterday with my friend who is car journalist(he works for Motorpresse-AMS and Sport Auto) and according to his info RS6 Avant biggest problem is weight. Fully specd(without Ceramics) it will wieght more then 2050kg's!!

The weight is correct but you seem to be ignoring the figures for the Continental GT Speed, it's power matches the RS6 to within a few horses and though torque is more it is not nearly as wide a band or anywhere near able to sustaining the same kind of figures like the RS6 engine is capable of. Factor in the weight advantage of the RS6 and you have a motor easily capable of beating the Speed in every discipline.

The official time for the RS4 is 4.8s to 100km/h but on numerous occasions it has posted much better times as low as 4.3s, likewise for the M3, M5 and M6. Not to sound too smart here, but why when Audi quote a figure some only believe it's achievable at best but with BMW it's a case of 'no problem, sure it will be able to beat that'. The R8 is an odd one with it's figures, clearly the car isn't achieving the figures one would expect when you consider it's weight advantage over the RS4 but then again they aren't using the same awd system, regardless of Audi calling it Quattro, don't expect the RS6 to be another R8 in this respect.:nono: The official time for the RS6 is 4.6s so chances are we will also see similar improvement in it's times and again an improvement of 0.5s is on the cards which would equate to a 4.1s run.

It's PTW is 289hp per tonne which easily betters the M5 and this is before you factor in it's torque per tonne advantage as well. If the official figures seem to be slower than the M5 is capable, then chances are they are very conservative.

Only time will tell how is correct.;)

[El_cucaracha]

the air intakes on front bumper of M5 TT spy shots look like photoshop work, and if i'm mistaken than it should be a test mule for 535i with turbo...

and guys, relax, cause even if M5 TT will be released, there is RS6 plus still to come (i hope with less weight and more hp)...

[artur777]

RS6 Sedan is a real car to compare.
It will be available in the mid-2008 and it will be much lighter than Avant.
So official figure fo RS6 Sedan will be 4.5 for 0-100 and 14.5 for 0-200.
But if Bentley Speed is capable of posting 4.5 sec weighting more thtn surely RS6 Sedan will be better.
Expect 4.2-4.3 for 0-100, 9-9,5 sec for 0-160 and 14-14,5 sec for 0-200

[crespo]

Don't think it will be THAT much lighter than the Avant...

[EKaru]

There's no reason why the RS6 won't do 0-60 in 3.9 sec.... The 911 Turbo tiptronic does 0-60 in 3.4 sec (which weighs 3,500 lbs and has 480hp)...
I'm assuming the power to weight ratio would be marginally in favor of the 911 Turbo, but close nonetheless....
Eric...

[skiwi]

traction is a key issue - despite the front weight bias working against the car, the torsen is very fast acting and torque transfer rearwards under hard acceleration is basically instantaneous - but you need torque. i believe the rs6's torque figures are unbeatable due to the low rpm figure at which they are produced (1,500rpm) all of which is a recipe for much faster times than the rs4.

$0.02

[Leadfoot]

Just the add to the comments from skiwi, the RS6 is using an automatic but unlike the normal way a torque converter work this one will be very similar to that of the Bentley and will lock instantly so will be performing similarly to a manual. Then factor in that it's gear change will be quicker the RS4, so each change will be saving 0.1s minimum.

P.S.

The Bentley Speed is not taking 4.5s to 100km/h, it's 4.3s. Remember that when gauging what the RS6 is capable of. :thumb:

[RS6-4dr911]

A reasonably reliable, while not perfect, formula puts the 0-60 time at 4.1 sec, assuming a weight of 2025kg plus an 85kg driver and minimal fuel. So Audi appears to be fudging.

Yes, torque matters, but HP is a measure of how quickly you get work done and that's why the formula uses HP, not torque.

However, this formula seems to assume traction is limited only by the coefficent of friction of the tires. Beyond a certain point, traction application limitations come into play. This same formula shows that the M5 should hit 60 in 4.2 secs, but it's more like 4.8.

My calculations, too lengthy to list here, show that based on it's actual time, it is developing a weight distribution under acceleration of about 60-40, rear biased. Interesting that the RS quattro systems provide for a rear bias torque split of 60-40. This indicates that a 2 wheel drive vehicle that starts with near 50-50 weight distribution is unable to deliver 40% of its power to the ground. Also interesting that street vehicles besting 0-60 times of high 4 seconds are all-wheel drive cars (993TT, 996TT, Evo, WRX, Lambo, etc) or rear/mid-engined cars.

In other words, the HP wars will eventually hit a very real "sound barrier" in terms of 0-60 times unless they start putting adhesive on the tires or develop mechanisms that suck the car to the road to develop greater tractive force. However, this barrier looks to be around 3 seconds, which would require an M3 or 997TT to deliver around 600HP so there's till some room left but at the current rate, we'll be there around 2010.

Can you tell I'm unable to sleep right now with nothing else to do??:vhmmm:

[kip]

RS6 Sedan is a real car to compare.
It will be available in the mid-2008 and it will be much lighter than Avant.
So official figure fo RS6 Sedan will be 4.5 for 0-100 and 14.5 for 0-200.
But if Bentley Speed is capable of posting 4.5 sec weighting more thtn surely RS6 Sedan will be better.
Expect 4.2-4.3 for 0-100, 9-9,5 sec for 0-160 and 14-14,5 sec for 0-200

S6
mph

R&T 0-60 5.1 0-100 12.0

Audi USA 0-60 5.1

C&D 0-60 5.4 0-100 12.7

So if Audi says 4.5 for RS6 how come you estimate 4.2?

km/h

RS6 0-100 4.6 and 0-200 14.9

For S6: Audi Finland 0-100 5.3

Autobild:

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/Themen-Testberichte-Kombis-hoch-zehn_60277.html

0-100 5.6 0-200 19.9

I think Audis estimation will be close to the truth. Sorry to spoil your optimism.

[Leadfoot]

Kip,

Can you explain why the RS4 Mk2 seems to be able to out-perform Audi's figures, likewise the RS4 Mk1, the S4v8 also has posted better, as has the S5. I think if you look hard enough you can see what you want to see in these figures.

I have seen times for both the M5 and M6 not performing as they should but everyone and every car can have bad days.

If you reckon the RS6's official times are right on the money then if they are better than quoted we will all be very happy.

Oh yes, and say 'we told you so'.;)

[El_cucaracha]

i think that figure are underestimated like the HP... as i remmerber audi always overestimated the numbers, but know times have changed... wouldn't it be suspicius when 2 tonn car can accelerate in 4.0secs to hundred? they have hidden the acctual HP and now thay had to hide the acctual accelration....

[kip]

Kip,

Can you explain why the RS4 Mk2 seems to be able to out-perform Audi's figures, likewise the RS4 Mk1, the S4v8 also has posted better, as has the S5. I think if you look hard enough you can see what you want to see in these figures.

I have seen times for both the M5 and M6 not performing as they should but everyone and every car can have bad days.

If you reckon the RS6's official times are right on the money then if they are better than quoted we will all be very happy.

Oh yes, and say 'we told you so'.;)

I am also just keeping up the conversation, again without any proof. I also am hoping the RS6 will be what I have been waiting from Audi for years!

I agree that the RS4's has allways been fast, but the reason I chose the S6 is because they are both based on the A6.

I hope you will be able to say I told you so ;)

PS. S5 performed better only in Road and track as far as I have seen. In European mags it underperformed 5.1 promised, 5.3 delivered. I think it was autozeitung or auto motor und sport just recently.

Not selling my E55 yet!

[artur777]

Kip, you aright with one thing.
S6 is an overestimated car in terms of perfomance.
Can we hope for RS6 to be a real-performer?
That's a real question.

BTW, in my opinion, lack of Quattro 3 will influence the acc. time also.
Another words, if RS6 were with Quattro3 it could have posted even better figures.

[Leadfoot]

kip,

You have to remember that not only the engine is different between the S6 and the RS6, the gearbox is different too. Every little thing helps.

I know roughly which the times are and I am hinting as much in this tread. ;)

[Leadfoot]

Kip, you aright with one thing.
S6 is an overestimated car in terms of perfomance.
Can we hope for RS6 to be a real-performer?
That's a real question.

It's not really over-estimated at all, the problem is the cars which it has currently been tested against that are clearly from a different performance bracket. The S6 doesn't match the RS4 below 120mph but over this speed there isn't really that much difference if any and it has been hinted that some feel it's actually quicker after this speed. The S6 is a high speed cruiser and this is it real strength, not acceleration.